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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 2 post(s) |
Keith Planck
Ashton Technologies Ignore This.
343
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Posted - 2012.06.13 17:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
Quote:We have rolled back the following changes:
Lowering the reward for vanguard sites by 10% The system influence
-CCP Affinity
How many people will be going back and trying Vanguards after the un-nerf ?
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DarthNefarius
Minmatar Heavy Industries
239
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Posted - 2012.06.13 18:56:00 -
[2] - Quote
Keith Planck wrote:Quote:We have rolled back the following changes:
Lowering the reward for vanguard sites by 10% The system influence
-CCP Affinity How many people will be going back and trying Vanguards after the un-nerf ?
The partial un nerf (rollback) does not address the real issue which floored the Vanguards: OTA's are now too dificult and are stacking like pancakes. I've unsubscribed and my subscription time runs out in under 24 hours The day that CCP 'fixes' stop sucking is the day they start fixing vaccum cleaners |
Mazzy Star
S0utherN Comfort Cascade Imminent
13
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Posted - 2012.06.13 19:02:00 -
[3] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Keith Planck wrote:Quote:We have rolled back the following changes:
Lowering the reward for vanguard sites by 10% The system influence
-CCP Affinity How many people will be going back and trying Vanguards after the un-nerf ? The partial un nerf (rollback) does not address the real issue which floored the Vanguards: OTA's are now too dificult and are stacking like pancakes. I've unsubscribed and my subscription time runs out in under 24 hours
Tragedy strikes again. |
FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1760
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Posted - 2012.06.13 19:27:00 -
[4] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:I've unsubscribed and my subscription time runs out in under 24 hours Can I have your bling incursion ship? I'm starting a collection. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
nahjustwarpin
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
19
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Posted - 2012.06.13 20:15:00 -
[5] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote: I've unsubscribed and my subscription time runs out in under 24 hours
so you're crying that you don't have that big isk income from incursions and try to convince us or ccp that you was paying for subscription. |
Suqq Madiq
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
74
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Posted - 2012.06.13 20:27:00 -
[6] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:I've unsubscribed and my subscription time runs out in under 24 hours
This is the best news the EVE community has had since, well, since the Incursion nerf went live.
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drdxie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
108
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Posted - 2012.06.13 20:49:00 -
[7] - Quote
Keith Planck wrote:Quote:We have rolled back the following changes:
Lowering the reward for vanguard sites by 10% The system influence
-CCP Affinity How many people will be going back and trying Vanguards after the un-nerf ?
Only reason I stopped doing incursions is because fleets dried up. I play from EVE time 7 to DT, and finding fleets even in a shiny NM is a ***** at that time since the nerf. I seriously doubt this is un-nerf is going to be able to bring back the VG fleets. But lets wait and see... Missile enhancers.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1235061& |
Liliana Rahl
Remote Soviet Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.13 21:20:00 -
[8] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote: The partial un nerf (rollback) does not address the real issue which floored the Vanguards: OTA's are now too dificult and are stacking like pancakes. I've unsubscribed and my subscription time runs out in under 24 hours
I don't understand.
You unsubscribed because you can't make fake money?
What exactly do you do with your fake money? |
Nambr1
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
8
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Posted - 2012.06.13 23:48:00 -
[9] - Quote
Liliana Rahl wrote:DarthNefarius wrote: The partial un nerf (rollback) does not address the real issue which floored the Vanguards: OTA's are now too dificult and are stacking like pancakes. I've unsubscribed and my subscription time runs out in under 24 hours
I don't understand. You unsubscribed because you can't make fake money? What exactly do you do with your fake money?
lol ... fake money .....
The only thing u ppl said about incursions was they killed plex market. Incs are nerfed now and plex prices are same. So that wasnt problem.
Problem is that CCP gave 10 apples, then they took 9 (nerf) and now they are giving back 1 apple. This isnt un-nerf, ppl have 2 apples and they had 10.
I dont know what you have against hi sec ppl with a lot of isk. They play game in their way, you do that in yours. The only thing I see here is jealousy from 10yo kids. The good thing is that they will spend isk coming in 0.0, low sec and you will have nice kills.
If your point is RMT, every player who do that or boting (0.0 is full of bots and RMTS) should be banned. |
IIshira
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
28
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Posted - 2012.06.13 23:58:00 -
[10] - Quote
Nambr1 wrote: If your point is RMT, every player who do that or boting (0.0 is full of bots and RMTS) should be banned.
I heard CCP cracked down on the bots recently. I remember a while back a bunch of us reported bots we found in 0.0. We were shocked when CCP did nothing. I know bots are paying the same 15 bucks a month as the rest of us but maybe CCP realized they mess up the game. |
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Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
80
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Posted - 2012.06.14 00:07:00 -
[11] - Quote
Nambr1 wrote:Liliana Rahl wrote:DarthNefarius wrote: The partial un nerf (rollback) does not address the real issue which floored the Vanguards: OTA's are now too dificult and are stacking like pancakes. I've unsubscribed and my subscription time runs out in under 24 hours
I don't understand. You unsubscribed because you can't make fake money? What exactly do you do with your fake money? lol ... fake money ..... The only thing u ppl said about incursions was they killed plex market. Incs are nerfed now and plex prices are same. So that wasnt problem. Problem is that CCP gave 10 apples, then they took 9 (nerf) and now they are giving back 1 apple. This isnt un-nerf, ppl have 2 apples and they had 10. I dont know what you have against hi sec ppl with a lot of isk. They play game in their way, you do that in yours. The only thing I see here is jealousy from 10yo kids. The good thing is that they will spend isk coming in 0.0, low sec and you will have nice kills. If your point is RMT, every player who do that or boting (0.0 is full of bots and RMTS) should be banned.
I dont think plex staying the same, it's dropping, learn to check price in jita
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Flakey Foont
145
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Posted - 2012.06.14 00:11:00 -
[12] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote:Keith Planck wrote:Quote:We have rolled back the following changes:
Lowering the reward for vanguard sites by 10% The system influence
-CCP Affinity How many people will be going back and trying Vanguards after the un-nerf ? The partial un nerf (rollback) does not address the real issue which floored the Vanguards: OTA's are now too dificult and are stacking like pancakes. I've unsubscribed and my subscription time runs out in under 24 hours
You will be missed. I guess.
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Lipbite
Express Hauler
80
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Posted - 2012.06.14 00:28:00 -
[13] - Quote
Keith Planck wrote:Quote:We have rolled back the following changes:
Lowering the reward for vanguard sites by 10% The system influence
-CCP Affinity How many people will be going back and trying Vanguards after the un-nerf ?
I wouldn't call that "un-nerf" - actual un-nerf is still months away. It doesn't matter if OTAs theoretically pay 9 or 10m when they are impossible to finish and there are no other sites unless you are logged in right after DT. |
Keith Planck
Ashton Technologies Ignore This.
343
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 06:31:00 -
[14] - Quote
DarthNefarius wrote: The partial un nerf (rollback) does not address the real issue which floored the Vanguards: OTA's are now too dificult and are stacking like pancakes. I've unsubscribed and my subscription time runs out in under 24 hours
I don't think one subscription is enough to sway CCP but I do agree with you that the 10% pay increase will not breath life back into VGs. They currently arn't even worth running if you DO have a bunch of dedicated corp members.
drdxie wrote:
Only reason I stopped doing incursions is because fleets dried up. I play from EVE time 7 to DT, and finding fleets even in a shiny NM is a ***** at that time since the nerf. I seriously doubt this is un-nerf is going to be able to bring back the VG fleets. But lets wait and see...
There were a few incursion FCs that tried to keep forming VG fleets, as far as i know DJ Noob is still sticking it out. But the community is gone and trying to form a fleet takes hours, being more of a statement then a way to have fun and get isk. Incursions were ALL about the public fleets, if you have the coordination to get 12 people into 4 billion isk ships, your not farming the pitiful isk that incursions give, your in a C6...
Lipbite wrote:
I wouldn't call that "un-nerf" - actual un-nerf is still months away. It doesn't matter if OTAs theoretically pay 9 or 10m when they are impossible to finish and there are no other sites unless you are logged in right after DT.
This is what I think is the big problem. T1 battleship pubby vanguard fleet would run 30mil/hr while being trashed by shiny fleets, and still have a great time doing it. It's not that vanguards don't make enough isk/hr. It's that they don't pay enough for shiny fleets to run them, and they are too difficult for non-shiny fleets... so... no one does them...
Make it easier but nerf the payout, so shiny fleets can't take advantage of them and do assaults, but pubby fleets get to run them. |
Mara Rinn
Cosmic Industrial Complex Cosmic Consortium
1506
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Posted - 2012.06.14 07:20:00 -
[15] - Quote
Keith Planck wrote:Quote:We have rolled back the following changes:
Lowering the reward for vanguard sites by 10% The system influence
-CCP Affinity How many people will be going back and trying Vanguards after the un-nerf ?
People will return to running OTAs when the OTA site stops being a pain in the arse to run. The OTAs became a PITA because all the following conditions were imposed: a) the completion requirement became "kill everything", b) the things that spawn are more dangerous, c) more/different things spawn. The rollback removes none of those conditions.
The extra money and the lessening of general Sanshas "dangerousness" might help, but OTAs are still a PITA. Day 0 advice for new players: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&find=unread&t=77176 |
Liliana Rahl
Remote Soviet Industries Test Alliance Please Ignore
77
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 11:48:00 -
[16] - Quote
Nambr1 wrote:lol ... fake money ..... The only thing u ppl said about incursions was they killed plex market. Incs are nerfed now and plex prices are same. So that wasnt problem. Problem is that CCP gave 10 apples, then they took 9 (nerf) and now they are giving back 1 apple. This isnt un-nerf, ppl have 2 apples and they had 10. I dont know what you have against hi sec ppl with a lot of isk. They play game in their way, you do that in yours. The only thing I see here is jealousy from 10yo kids. The good thing is that they will spend isk coming in 0.0, low sec and you will have nice kills. If your point is RMT, every player who do that or boting (0.0 is full of bots and RMTS) should be banned.
I'm actually 11.
And my point was that it sounds as though a lot of people are simply upset because they can't continue to watch their wallets tick up so that they can....continue to watch their wallets tick up. Re: I'm fairly certain some people play this game for the sole purpose of making a lot of fake money (isk) and that blows my mind.
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FloppieTheBanjoClown
The Skunkworks
1763
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 11:59:00 -
[17] - Quote
Nambr1 wrote:I dont know what you have against hi sec ppl with a lot of isk. No one does. I *am* one of those. The objection we've always had is that it's an imbalanced isk generator. Highsec incursions are a zero-risk prospect that had one of the highest payouts in the game, pre-nerf. Comparable sources of income could only be found in high-class wormholes and well-protected deep nullsec systems. The only real risk in highsec incursions is introduced by the players themselves by fleeting with unknowns and relying on complete strangers to ensure the safety of their ships. If you'd do what the rest of Eve does and fly with people you know to be competent, you wouldn't have to worry about that at all. It's time to put an end to CCP's war on piracy. Fight your own battles and stop asking CCP to do it for you. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
195
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Posted - 2012.06.14 13:43:00 -
[18] - Quote
Once you drive away customers, you'll have to work 10x as hard to get them back.
A slight unnerf isn't even close to getting wh dwellers back out of their holes... It will have to be a full rollback, and then some. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Mazzy Star
S0utherN Comfort Cascade Imminent
14
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:18:00 -
[19] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Once you drive away customers, you'll have to work 10x as hard to get them back.
A slight unnerf isn't even close to getting wh dwellers back out of their holes... It will have to be a full rollback, and then some.
You talk as if all the people who previously ran incursions unsubscribed, rather than ****** off to another part of space to earn their ISK instead. While I personally think the nerf was a bit too extreme, VGs were always a repetitive grind and never really that interesting to begin with. In a BS fleet, you did OTA after OTA, killing the enemies in the exact same order each and every time. That's not interesting PVE content - that's a grind. My hope is that CCP continues to develop incursions, adding more types of sites and adjusting payouts accordingly.
But seriously, if you played this game ONLY to do vanguard incursions and you quit because vanguards got nerfed, well, that's just comical to me. There are other good ways to earn ISK in this game, and if you actually enjoyed running with incursion fleets, there are still fleets running assaults and making pretty good cash doing it and there you'll have double the people in fleet for that sense of "community." |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
81
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 14:37:00 -
[20] - Quote
Mazzy Star wrote:if you played this game ONLY to do vanguard incursions and you quit because vanguards got nerfed, well, that's just comical to me.
That may be comical only to a person who never spent 1-4 hours waiting for a spot in the only HQ or AS fleet running. Because there are no vanguard fleets anymore - at least not for shield ships. |
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sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
195
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Posted - 2012.06.14 14:53:00 -
[21] - Quote
Mazzy Star wrote:sabre906 wrote:Once you drive away customers, you'll have to work 10x as hard to get them back.
A slight unnerf isn't even close to getting wh dwellers back out of their holes... It will have to be a full rollback, and then some. You talk as if all the people who previously ran incursions unsubscribed, rather than ****** off to another part of space to earn their ISK instead. While I personally think the nerf was a bit too extreme, VGs were always a repetitive grind and never really that interesting to begin with. In a BS fleet, you did OTA after OTA, killing the enemies in the exact same order each and every time. That's not interesting PVE content - that's a grind. My hope is that CCP continues to develop incursions, adding more types of sites and adjusting payouts accordingly. But seriously, if you played this game ONLY to do vanguard incursions and you quit because vanguards got nerfed, well, that's just comical to me. There are other good ways to earn ISK in this game, and if you actually enjoyed running with incursion fleets, there are still fleets running assaults and making pretty good cash doing it and there you'll have double the people in fleet for that sense of "community."
What I said was observation on reality, not the same as your assumptions. It took us quite a bit of effort to set up the wh again, 10% isn't anywhere close to enough to abandon it. Had it happened a day or 2 after the nerfbat hit, maybe, but now is too late. Ratters who's since moved back to null is in the same boat. I've been seeing the same thing on every one of my alts. People moved on.
It's not necessarily a bad thing, since Incursions have been sucking people in from all over, leaving behind deserted space. Now, there are signs of life in some parts again. But if 10% is all CCP is willing to go, Incursions are dead for good. Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
Mazzy Star
S0utherN Comfort Cascade Imminent
14
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Posted - 2012.06.14 15:04:00 -
[22] - Quote
Quote:What I said was observation on reality, not the same as your assumptions. It took us quite a bit of effort to set up the wh again, 10% isn't anywhere close to enough to abandon it. Had it happened a day or 2 after the nerfbat hit, maybe, but now is too late. Ratters who's since moved back to null is in the same boat. I've been seeing the same thing on every one of my alts. People moved on.
It's not necessarily a bad thing, since Incursions have been sucking people in from all over, leaving behind deserted space. Now, there are signs of life in some parts again. But if 10% is all CCP is willing to go, Incursions are dead for good.
What you said was completely misleading then. If by "driving away customers" you mean "causing people to adapt how the play this game," then I agree with you on the effect of the changes. You might want to work on your wording though.
If you're talking about driving people to other parts of the game, I don't think CCP is all that worried about that. They seem to like to shake things up a bit every so often and let the players adapt accordingly. There are still some (albeit far fewer) people doing incursions and, at the end of the day, incursions are just a way to earn ISK for funding other projects in the game. I hope that CCP will continue to refine incursions but I don't really see a big problem if people decide to do WH's/missions/etc. rather than incursions. |
sabre906
Old Spice Syndicate Sailors of the Sacred Spice
195
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Posted - 2012.06.14 17:49:00 -
[23] - Quote
Mazzy Star wrote:Quote:What I said was observation on reality, not the same as your assumptions. It took us quite a bit of effort to set up the wh again, 10% isn't anywhere close to enough to abandon it. Had it happened a day or 2 after the nerfbat hit, maybe, but now is too late. Ratters who's since moved back to null is in the same boat. I've been seeing the same thing on every one of my alts. People moved on.
It's not necessarily a bad thing, since Incursions have been sucking people in from all over, leaving behind deserted space. Now, there are signs of life in some parts again. But if 10% is all CCP is willing to go, Incursions are dead for good. What you said was completely misleading then. If by "driving away customers" you mean "causing people to adapt how the play this game," then I agree with you on the effect of the changes. You might want to work on your wording though. If you're talking about driving people to other parts of the game, I don't think CCP is all that worried about that. They seem to like to shake things up a bit every so often and let the players adapt accordingly. There are still some (albeit far fewer) people doing incursions and, at the end of the day, incursions are just a way to earn ISK for funding other projects in the game. I hope that CCP will continue to refine incursions but I don't really see a big problem if people decide to do WH's/missions/etc. rather than incursions.
tl;dr: You think Incursions should be dead and stay dead.
So why pretend 10% is enough to revive Incursions to begin with? Standings Improvement Service https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=19454 |
BearJews
Android Arms And Industrial Corporation Tenth Legion
39
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Posted - 2012.06.14 18:05:00 -
[24] - Quote
People just don't realize it's not even worth trying to do VGs anymore cause you just don't make nearly as much money as you used to, and frankly it sucks sitting there waiting to get a fleet. it's also super frustrating because a lot of us took the time to properly train our toons specifically to be great for incursions. It's like spending months getting the proper skills to fly a lvl4 efficiently, then in one fell swoop all those months of training are gone.
Incursions were fun because not only was the isk great, but you got to meet a crap load of people and it's just not worth taking 3 hours to run for an hour to make 60 mil when i can do that simply by running a mission. And yeah sometimes it does take a DAMN LONG TIME to get into fleets.
Incursions to me (i was one of the shiny runners) is dead. Don't get me wrong it's not the only thing I do. I do PvP as well when I have the time, but i will never spend as much isk on pvp ships nowadays because making that isk back is a lot more time consuming, and frankly i'm not going to allot that much time just to grind isk to make my plex payments per month.
Guess i'm just not that hardcore *shrugs* |
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CCP Affinity
C C P C C P Alliance
352
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 20:50:00 -
[25] - Quote
I think there is still some confusion with regards to the reasons for the rollback. We are not rolling back the 2 selected changes because we are under some illusion this will just make everything better. We are rolling them back because we didn't like the outcome and are unhappy with the direction it took Incursions. We still have plenty of plans for the future of Incursions - one of those will be to look at the OTA sites but we could have either continued to work on Incursions from a position we were unhappy about, or revert the changes we disliked. I am under no illusions that we have waved some magic Incursion wand and all the problems have vanished, the devblog was simply the first of, what I hope to be many, Incursion updates.
Also, it's worth noting that we are rolling back the 10% reward reduction. This is not the same thing as increasing the current payout by 10%. eg: 1000 reduced by 10% = 900 which becomes the new payout amount - so 900 increased by 10% is 990 CCP Affinity | Team Five 0 |-á @CCP_Affinity |
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Mallak Azaria
204
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Posted - 2012.06.14 20:53:00 -
[26] - Quote
sabre906 wrote:Mazzy Star wrote:Quote:What I said was observation on reality, not the same as your assumptions. It took us quite a bit of effort to set up the wh again, 10% isn't anywhere close to enough to abandon it. Had it happened a day or 2 after the nerfbat hit, maybe, but now is too late. Ratters who's since moved back to null is in the same boat. I've been seeing the same thing on every one of my alts. People moved on.
It's not necessarily a bad thing, since Incursions have been sucking people in from all over, leaving behind deserted space. Now, there are signs of life in some parts again. But if 10% is all CCP is willing to go, Incursions are dead for good. What you said was completely misleading then. If by "driving away customers" you mean "causing people to adapt how the play this game," then I agree with you on the effect of the changes. You might want to work on your wording though. If you're talking about driving people to other parts of the game, I don't think CCP is all that worried about that. They seem to like to shake things up a bit every so often and let the players adapt accordingly. There are still some (albeit far fewer) people doing incursions and, at the end of the day, incursions are just a way to earn ISK for funding other projects in the game. I hope that CCP will continue to refine incursions but I don't really see a big problem if people decide to do WH's/missions/etc. rather than incursions. tl;dr: You think Incursions should be dead and stay dead. So why pretend 10% is enough to revive Incursions to begin with?
No, we think highsec incursion rewards should be up to scale with the inherent lack of risk associated with them. |
Spineker
233
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 20:57:00 -
[27] - Quote
As if there is any risk in tardnull sec. |
Apolyon I
AQUILA INC Verge of Collapse
81
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 21:35:00 -
[28] - Quote
Keith Planck wrote: There were a few incursion FCs that tried to keep forming VG fleets, as far as i know DJ Noob is still sticking it out. But the community is gone and trying to form a fleet takes hours, being more of a statement then a way to have fun and get isk. Incursions were ALL about the public fleets, if you have the coordination to get 12 people into 4 billion isk ships, your not farming the pitiful isk that incursions give, your in a C6...
but....but.....wh has risk, I dont want to lose my precious |
Mazzy Star
S0utherN Comfort Cascade Imminent
14
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Posted - 2012.06.14 22:09:00 -
[29] - Quote
Spineker wrote:As if there is any risk in tardnull sec.
People lose expensive ships ratting in null every day. We killed some fool in a carrier earlier today, and we've had fools in alliance lose equally expensive ships to hostiles in our space. While I've seen people lose expensive ships in vanguards (once), it's far from the norm. While intelligent pilots are pretty safe in null sec (or in any kind of space for that matter), there's still risk involved.
Also, I don't really have a problem with incursions paying well, but they need to find a way to increase the difficulty to compensate for the elevated income. There was absolutely nothing challenging about nor any thought involved in blitzing OTA after OTA in shiny ships before. It was simply a grind and there was very little that could go wrong. I'm hopeful and optimistic that CCP can find a way to involve incursions so that they are fun and challenging while at the same time paying out a fair ISK/hr (i.e., more than high sec missions, less than null anoms/sites). |
Lipbite
Express Hauler
81
|
Posted - 2012.06.14 22:50:00 -
[30] - Quote
Suqq Madiq wrote:DarthNefarius wrote:I've unsubscribed and my subscription time runs out in under 24 hours This is the best news the EVE community has had since, well, since the Incursion nerf went live.
Incursions weren't changed for years so subscriptions paid by incursion runners were used to develop other content. I believe most of those money was used to develop content for low/null-sec because I didn't hear about massive content patches for hi-sec in years (though I didn't hear about *any* massive content patches for years).
Also I suspect DarthNefarious isn't the only unsubscribed person because incursions were end-game content and a wet dream for many (if not most) hi-sec dwellers and I suspect after Inferno thousands of them lost their hope to get into incursions and "get rich quickly" one day - after months of dull farming of low profit, boring L4s. So there must be hundreds (if not thousands) unsubscribed accounts .
I wouldn't call that "best" news both for CCP (for obvious reasons) and for you as you will receive less content due to CCP's monetary losses related to incursions nerf, unsubscribing players, possible personnel lay-offs (I don't think DUST team will be affected).
This nerf was everyone's massive loss. Even though some players doesn't understand it yet. |
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