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DeviLee	Posted - 2004.11.04 09:44:00 - [1] Edited by: DeviLee on 04/11/2004 09:47:20 150mm Railgun II Powergrid: 11MW Tracking: 0.07 ROF: 4.25 Damage: 3.3 Optimal: 14400 Medium Beam II Powergrid: 18MW Tracking: 0.1 ROF: 4 Damage: 3.6 Optimal: 12000 Are you kidding me? Medium beam is better in every department except optimal range. Yeah yeah so what if it needs 7 more PG to mount, amarr can aford it and it takes less in CPU. The tracking alone is 30% better... WTF! Now don't go nerfing anything, make railgun better. My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp.
DeviLee	Posted - 2004.11.04 09:44:00 - [2] Edited by: DeviLee on 04/11/2004 09:47:20 150mm Railgun II Powergrid: 11MW Tracking: 0.07 ROF: 4.25 Damage: 3.3 Optimal: 14400 Medium Beam II Powergrid: 18MW Tracking: 0.1 ROF: 4 Damage: 3.6 Optimal: 12000 Are you kidding me? Medium beam is better in every department except optimal range. Yeah yeah so what if it needs 7 more PG to mount, amarr can aford it and it takes less in CPU. The tracking alone is 30% better... WTF! Now don't go nerfing anything, make railgun better. My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp.
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2004.11.04 09:53:00 - [3] 1) 7 Grid isn't what i would call an affordable value on a frigate's grid. 2) You really need to take into account, the ships that use those 2 turrets, the bonuses they have for these turrets etc etc. Point 1 and 2 combined seems balanced to me. Pain is meant to be felt
Juan Andalusian	Posted - 2004.11.04 09:53:00 - [4] 1) 7 Grid isn't what i would call an affordable value on a frigate's grid. 2) You really need to take into account, the ships that use those 2 turrets, the bonuses they have for these turrets etc etc. Point 1 and 2 combined seems balanced to me. Pain is meant to be felt
DeviLee	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:00:00 - [5] I'm not suggesting they should increase damage, but giving it it's own tactical advantage like 10k more range for example. And you know that PG can be increased quite well with Power cores and the fact that you get skill bonus on top of ship PG + power core. My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp.
DeviLee	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:00:00 - [6] I'm not suggesting they should increase damage, but giving it it's own tactical advantage like 10k more range for example. And you know that PG can be increased quite well with Power cores and the fact that you get skill bonus on top of ship PG + power core. My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp.
hatchette	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:09:00 - [7] Those medium beams are useless on frigates, interceptors and assault ships because of the powergrid requirements. You can fit exactly 2 of such guns on crusader... and i don't think you will be able to fit even mwd without using micro-aux. Retribution, vengeance? Maybe you can fit 3 medium beams on them.. with good skills and micro-aux... Whereas you will be able to fit 3 150mm railguns II on taranis and still have some powergrid left. Or fit 4 150mm railguns II on harpy without a problem. Those medium beams II are guns meant to be fitted on cruiser... and they really shouldn't be compared to 150mm railguns.
hatchette	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:09:00 - [8] Those medium beams are useless on frigates, interceptors and assault ships because of the powergrid requirements. You can fit exactly 2 of such guns on crusader... and i don't think you will be able to fit even mwd without using micro-aux. Retribution, vengeance? Maybe you can fit 3 medium beams on them.. with good skills and micro-aux... Whereas you will be able to fit 3 150mm railguns II on taranis and still have some powergrid left. Or fit 4 150mm railguns II on harpy without a problem. Those medium beams II are guns meant to be fitted on cruiser... and they really shouldn't be compared to 150mm railguns.
DeviLee	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:10:00 - [9] Let's take a look at two PG comparable weapons then: 150mm Railgun II Powergrid: 11MW Tracking: 0.07 ROF: 4.25 DM: 3.3 Optimal: 14400 Pulse medium II Powergrid: 12MW Tracking: 0.197 ROF: 3.5 DM: 3.6 Optimal: 8400 Ok range is 6k less but jesus tracking is much much better and so is every other statistic and all that for just 1 PG more. My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp.
DeviLee	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:10:00 - [10] Let's take a look at two PG comparable weapons then: 150mm Railgun II Powergrid: 11MW Tracking: 0.07 ROF: 4.25 DM: 3.3 Optimal: 14400 Pulse medium II Powergrid: 12MW Tracking: 0.197 ROF: 3.5 DM: 3.6 Optimal: 8400 Ok range is 6k less but jesus tracking is much much better and so is every other statistic and all that for just 1 PG more. My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp.
hatchette	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:28:00 - [11] A bit better comparison... BUT 150mm railgun II accuracy fall-off: 6000m Medium Pulse Laser II accuracy fall-off: 2000m big difference in range... So should we rather compare light neutron blasters to medium pulse II? I think best comparison for 150mm railgun is dual light beam laser.
hatchette	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:28:00 - [12] A bit better comparison... BUT 150mm railgun II accuracy fall-off: 6000m Medium Pulse Laser II accuracy fall-off: 2000m big difference in range... So should we rather compare light neutron blasters to medium pulse II? I think best comparison for 150mm railgun is dual light beam laser.
DeviLee	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:33:00 - [13] Edited by: DeviLee on 04/11/2004 10:43:24 Did fall-off ever influence your decision to use a gun, especialy with all the nerfs and changes in tracking formulas? None of the BS guns should even hit you at 100m but Mega Pulses do quite nicely. So falloff doesn't even work as far as I'm concerned. My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp.
DeviLee	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:33:00 - [14] Edited by: DeviLee on 04/11/2004 10:43:24 Did fall-off ever influence your decision to use a gun, especialy with all the nerfs and changes in tracking formulas? None of the BS guns should even hit you at 100m but Mega Pulses do quite nicely. So falloff doesn't even work as far as I'm concerned. My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp.
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:34:00 - [15] k so lets compare: 150mm rail tech 2 WITH iron ammo vs medium pulse laser tech 2 WITH radio crystal what do we get? can anyone do the math? Greetings Grim
Grim Vandal	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:34:00 - [16] k so lets compare: 150mm rail tech 2 WITH iron ammo vs medium pulse laser tech 2 WITH radio crystal what do we get? can anyone do the math? Greetings Grim
DeviLee	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:39:00 - [17] 50% bonus to both ranges would be: 21600m for Hybrid and 12600m for Laser. My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp.
DeviLee	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:39:00 - [18] 50% bonus to both ranges would be: 21600m for Hybrid and 12600m for Laser. My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp.
qrac	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:43:00 - [19] what's the saying.. apples and oranges? ------------------------------------------- Insanes numquam moriuntur!
qrac	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:43:00 - [20] what's the saying.. apples and oranges? ------------------------------------------- Insanes numquam moriuntur!
Evona Moucrou	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:46:00 - [21] Edited by: Evona Moucrou on 04/11/2004 10:49:39 I have 3 Medium Beam Is on my Vengeance. But I also do have 2 PDUs in the Low Slots (it is a non pvp fit). To say that 7 PG makes no difference is way uninformed. 3 Beams = 318=54. 3 Rails = 311=33. That is 21 Difference. How much Grid does the average combat frigatte have? How much Grid do you need for tanking (booster/repariers)? How much Grid do you need for your MWD? You cannot fit 3 Medium Beam Lasers on a Punisher (has 50 PG), and that is The Amarr Combat Frigatte. Just wondering, should the cap use per shot not be included in the comparrison?
Evona Moucrou	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:46:00 - [22] Edited by: Evona Moucrou on 04/11/2004 10:49:39 I have 3 Medium Beam Is on my Vengeance. But I also do have 2 PDUs in the Low Slots (it is a non pvp fit). To say that 7 PG makes no difference is way uninformed. 3 Beams = 318=54. 3 Rails = 311=33. That is 21 Difference. How much Grid does the average combat frigatte have? How much Grid do you need for tanking (booster/repariers)? How much Grid do you need for your MWD? You cannot fit 3 Medium Beam Lasers on a Punisher (has 50 PG), and that is The Amarr Combat Frigatte. Just wondering, should the cap use per shot not be included in the comparrison?
DeviLee	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:53:00 - [23] You shouldn't be able mount 3 Beam Lasers on a Punisher without power cores as they are too good. 3 Pulses are TEH WIN and that Punisher can almost tackle interceptors... well almost. Well I didn't include cap use per shot as I've never heard anyone runing out of cap due to weapons use and I've never had any problems with that. But it should use more cap anyway as it doesn't need ammo. My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp.
DeviLee	Posted - 2004.11.04 10:53:00 - [24] You shouldn't be able mount 3 Beam Lasers on a Punisher without power cores as they are too good. 3 Pulses are TEH WIN and that Punisher can almost tackle interceptors... well almost. Well I didn't include cap use per shot as I've never heard anyone runing out of cap due to weapons use and I've never had any problems with that. But it should use more cap anyway as it doesn't need ammo. My words are my own and do not represent the views of my corp.
Kaeten	Posted - 2004.11.04 11:12:00 - [25] CCP plz increase railgun strength. They r useless atm ingame. ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Kaeten	Posted - 2004.11.04 11:12:00 - [26] CCP plz increase railgun strength. They r useless atm ingame. ___________________________________ Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante Gallante
Nimrodel	Posted - 2004.11.04 11:15:00 - [27] POST ALL THE STATS THEN NOT JUST THE ONES YOU WANT TO MAKE AN ISSUE OUT OF! --------------------------------------------- Nimrodel Dark Force User Joint Espionage & Defence Industries --------------------------------------------- Your Medium YF-12a Smartbomb hits Rusty Cloud, doing 0.0 damage.
Nimrodel	Posted - 2004.11.04 11:15:00 - [28] POST ALL THE STATS THEN NOT JUST THE ONES YOU WANT TO MAKE AN ISSUE OUT OF! --------------------------------------------- Nimrodel Dark Force User Joint Espionage & Defence Industries --------------------------------------------- Your Medium YF-12a Smartbomb hits Rusty Cloud, doing 0.0 damage.
Evona Moucrou	Posted - 2004.11.04 11:17:00 - [29] Originally by: DeviLee You shouldn't be able mount 3 Beam Lasers on a Punisher without power cores as they are too good. 3 Pulses are TEH WIN and that Punisher can almost tackle interceptors... well almost. Well I didn't include cap use per shot as I've never heard anyone runing out of cap due to weapons use and I've never had any problems with that. But it should use more cap anyway as it doesn't need ammo. Counter-Question then, on which ship would you want to mount Medium Beam Lasers, and in which quantity?
Evona Moucrou	Posted - 2004.11.04 11:17:00 - [30] Originally by: DeviLee You shouldn't be able mount 3 Beam Lasers on a Punisher without power cores as they are too good. 3 Pulses are TEH WIN and that Punisher can almost tackle interceptors... well almost. Well I didn't include cap use per shot as I've never heard anyone runing out of cap due to weapons use and I've never had any problems with that. But it should use more cap anyway as it doesn't need ammo. Counter-Question then, on which ship would you want to mount Medium Beam Lasers, and in which quantity?

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