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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 36 post(s) |
Mecinia Lua
Galactic Express Burning Horizons
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:13:00 -
[871]
Okay I've had another idea since you didn't respond to my earlier idea about needing more belts.
Can we have a skill to lower the costs associated with Sovereignty. Sort of like Accounting lowers sales tax. This would probably be a Corporate Management skill call it Administration. Primary: Charisma, Secondary: Memory. Say a 3x skill. Training it lowers the cost associated with claiming sovereignty by say 10% per level up to of course level 5. It would have to be trained by the CEO of the Executor corp I guess or perhaps the corp with the flag in that system.
Thoughts expressed are mine and mine alone. They do not necessarily reflect my alliances thoughts.
Your signature is too large. Please resize it to a maximum of 400 x 120 with the file size not exceeding 24000 bytes. -Mitnal |
Stelteck
Minmatar ICE is Coming to EVE Tau Ceti Federation
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:14:00 -
[872]
The goal of dominion is to help people to return to empire ?
Mission accomplished....
I'am searching for a virtual rope to hang myself in game.......
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Sloth Arnini
Arcana Imperii Ltd.
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:14:00 -
[873]
In the absence of actual numbers, I took the announced changes with relative equanimity. I thought that changes would be introduced in such a way that they would at worst be cost-neutral compared to the existing system. I believe, knowing that nullsec alliance players are pretty lazy (being one myself), that they will only travel as far as they need to make their personal isk. In other words, if wealth concentration is increased so that more people can be supported by an alliance's core systems, then they won't travel to the outer fringes of their territory. This exodus from the frontier alone will open up sizable tracts of space, without forcing an alliance to shell out 560 mill/month for every system it lights up on the map (before upgrades).
Many people in Atlas were actually looking forward to the prospect of ditching vast swathes of outlying space, but being rewarded for doing so by having lower sovereignty costs for what we chose to keep. As it stands, we're likely going to have to abandon space, with no reward for doing so (i.e. we'll be paying as much if not more than we do now but still with less space).
That is why you're getting this deeply concerned post from me, and I imagine it is a sentiment shared by many nullsec dwellers. We've endured the current broken system for years and put up with the burdens it puts upon our playing time. We were hoping for a reprieve with Dominion. Instead we're having more burdens thrust upon us. That is why we're upset, not simply because we're expected to dismember our multiregional empires. That caricature is peddled by clueless morons with their own agendas.
To CCP, I say this: make the carrots bigger and the stick smaller. Perhaps change the cost of sov so that instead of being a flat sum/system, it increases with the number of systems. A sov stacking penalty, if you will.
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Zhang Ramses
Chaos From Order Manifest Destiny.
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:15:00 -
[874]
The upgrades are terrible.
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Sally Bestonge
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:15:00 -
[875]
Originally by: Zahorite CCP would be better off delaying Dominion and making it so that upgrades could increase belts, decrease True Sec status, and put lvl 4 and lvl 5 missions with equivalent rewards to mission running in low sec.
Wait, you have anomalies instead that is good enough for you scum, the s****that gives us our paychecks ~ CCP, 2009
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TiaConda
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:15:00 -
[876]
Is there going to be a Grace period on Dec 1st to switch to the new Sov or is it all out chaos ?
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Syberbolt8
Gallente Gen Tec Freedom of Elbas
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:15:00 -
[877]
Hey guys instead of talking about it, log onto sisi and check for contracts in FD- by syberbolt8, i have a few of the upgrades up on contract for people, if there are no contracts eve-mail me and ill get you sorted asap :) Support the DEAD HORSE POS's |
Tommy Blue
Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:16:00 -
[878]
Originally by: WarDecEvading NPCCorpAlt
Originally by: Tommy Blue CCP, make the costs of systems scale non-linearly. As you take more systems, the prices to hold those systems go up! This makes it possible for smaller entities to control a little bit of space without going bankrupt and makes sure large entities have to scale back dramatically.
If you can do that without absurd-like prices as they are now, many more people would love you.
This isn't possible. Attempting it will only result in off-the-books alt alliances and corps to evade the scaling issues.
Wont having to have the the alliance members ratting/mining in a system to allow upgrades stop that from happening? And if they do it anyway, they would have to break up their large alliance into a bunch of smaller ones.
The only other reason for doing so it to just hold onto space, which is pointless. As bobby said earlier a couple times, the sprawl that you see in the larger alliances is due to personal posses n such. There will be no point in holding the masses of systems just to, well, have them.
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Alexi Kalashnikov
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:17:00 -
[879]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave I completely agree that systems will be able to sustain about 10, possibly 15 people active at one time (which to be fair is a pretty massive increase from what we can do now). It's not the perfect solution, but it gives us a pretty solid base to work from.
In terms of the upkeep costs, remember that you'll be getting rid of towers and the fuel costs for said towers. If it turns out that the system cost here is backbreaking for alliances, it's something we can re-visit.
Your numbers need to be revisited now: not later. Run the numbers on most of the alliances, big and small, today and you'll find that you'll likely be demanding trillions in isk from 0.0 to simply maintain what is there today: then we want to fund wars, invasions, and other fun pew pew-pew
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Ap0ll0n
Gallente Lone Star Joint Venture Wildly Inappropriate.
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:18:00 -
[880]
The whole concept of the new sov system is good, but the details really suck.
Your gonna boost the stuff in 0.0 that noone really cares about. Tbh, if you canŠt upgrade the truesec of a system, so that you get highend ore, and maybe even get more belts, all of this makes no sense, and wonŠt change much. Why would anyone upgrade systems, just to get more complexes? We already have plenty of those, its the ore in belts we need..
Regions like Geminate, pure blind etc. just to name a few that i know of, wonŠt magically turn into a industry heaven, just because you spend lots of isk on a few systems, so that you can get a gravimetric sites. That wonŠt sustain 50-100 miners for long.
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Dastycakes
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:18:00 -
[881]
I'll tell you whats going to happen after the patch.
Alliances will only maintain sov in their current Station Systems.(will be upgraded probably aswell)
Alliances will continue to pos spam moons for their goo without bothering to put hubs down.
Alliances will continue to kill off any smaller entitys around their space and take their moon goo.
Pos wars will continue just as they did before minus what has to be done in station systems.
Dominos will be the death of the JB network. It will not be cost effective.
Basicly everything will be the same except the territory maps. Players will still control their old space even though it wont look like it on the map. There is no reason for new or smaller alliances to crop up into 00 without being renters or pets. It wont be cost effective to develop space which means we are back to 1-2 players per system max.
Also CVA is gonna need a bailout or they are p. screwed. I fear the day i will nolonger hear the shouts of AMARR VICTOR in local. It was a good run CVA. Props for being killed by the devs, something the players could never do.
o7
There are some goons -dastommy79 |
Kazuo Ishiguro
House of Marbles
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:19:00 -
[882]
Originally by: Sturmwolke
Originally by: Tommy Blue CCP, make the costs of systems scale non-linearly. As you take more systems, the prices to hold those systems go up! This makes it possible for smaller entities to control a little bit of space without going bankrupt and makes sure large entities have to scale back dramatically.
Non-linear scaling of cost won't stand to abuse. You shall see the rise Goonswarm Feet & Legs, Goonswarm Arms & Torso and finally Goonswarm Head alliances. All form the Goon Voltron.
Make upgrades unusable unless the alliance claims a large number of systems. E.g. 5 per connected jump bridge --- 34.4:1 mineral compression ISRC Racing, Season 7 - schedule |
Bonefish O'Hallahan
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:29:00 -
[883]
Originally by: Sloth Arnini
That is why you're getting this deeply concerned post from me, and I imagine it is a sentiment shared by many nullsec dwellers. We've endured the current broken system for years and put up with the burdens it puts upon our playing time. We were hoping for a reprieve with Dominion. Instead we're having more burdens thrust upon us. That is why we're upset, not simply because we're expected to dismember our multiregional empires. That caricature is peddled by clueless morons with their own agendas.
Agreein' with Atlas Get OUT CCP |
Misha Fillechienne
Aliastra
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:29:00 -
[884]
ITT:
Goons crying salty tears and calling Soundwave by his former player name.
Delicious.
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Normin Bates
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:30:00 -
[885]
So many tears from the large Alliances that control huge areas of empty/unused space.
Claim less systems. Problem solved.
------------------------------------
I would like to know what will happen to the Drone regions though. Without bounty rats they will be abandoned wastelands with no activity or SOV. CCP?
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Gnulpie
Minmatar Miner Tech
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:31:00 -
[886]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave I completely agree that systems will be able to sustain about 10, possibly 15 people active at one time
Did you take into account that when you have 10 anomalies and already 9 people running anomalies in the system that you will have only a 10% chance of finding the unoccupied anomaly in the first attempt? And it still is only 50/50 after checking three of the anomalies. That all will cost time. So 10 anomalies all the time can NOT realistically keep 10 people busy with npc farming all the time. Just saying.
And a single pvp guy can kill ALL the activity of ALL npc runners.
Did you take that into account also??
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Zahorite
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:32:00 -
[887]
Originally by: Mecinia Lua Okay I've had another idea since you didn't respond to my earlier idea about needing more belts.
Can we have a skill to lower the costs associated with Sovereignty. Sort of like Accounting lowers sales tax. This would probably be a Corporate Management skill call it Administration. Primary: Charisma, Secondary: Memory. Say a 3x skill. Training it lowers the cost associated with claiming sovereignty by say 10% per level up to of course level 5. It would have to be trained by the CEO of the Executor corp I guess or perhaps the corp with the flag in that system.
That will just put more burden on the smaller alliances since they will have to lvl that skill up to 5. Assuming CCP believes that their numbers are correct they would have to assume that all alliances have that skill up to lvl 5 in order to maintain balance. This would mean they would have to double the costs. Of course if the numbers in that blog already assume that I would love to know.
At the very least CCP needs to get rid of the 25 million a day it costs just to put up a cyno jammer. Perhaps change some of this stuff to a one time investment instead. It can be larger but at 25 million a day that is over 9 billion isk a year for each system with a cyno jammer. You could go out and fit half a dozen dreadnaughts instead. As long as you only lost one every other month you would probably end up ahead. Assuming that you have 10 systems, well it will probably be more cost effective to go buy yourself a large capital fleet.
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Ceirah
Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:33:00 -
[888]
If you want people out of the empire, dont bait them out, burn them out
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Loves Porcsword
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:35:00 -
[889]
Your whole idea of getting large numbers into a system out in 0.0 is total garbage.
your ideas on ratting and the sustainability of your proposals are severely lacking what is really required to sustain any corp no matter of size. The ONLY way you can make this work is to make any system in 0.0 just a valuable as a high sec mission running system.
For example - the average mission hub in empire has over 300 people running missions at any one time. With your proposals there can be a maximum of 10 people running plexes / ratting in belts in an upgraded 0.0 system.
The solution to this is to enable an anchorable device at a certain sov level and the required upgrade. This anchorable device would serve as a beacon allowing it to spawn rats at a rate relevant to the systems truesec and ugrade levels. This would need to small enough for any solo pilot to carry in their cargo holds - and different levels would be able to be purchased/created which would give you several different levels of 'complexes'. As I see it this could be the only way to achieve motsu scale support inside any 0.0 system. |
Nephilim Xeno
Caldari 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:35:00 -
[890]
This upgrade system really does not make much sense in the current form.
Would make much more sense if the activity levels would reduce the sov costs by like 5% each level which would reduce the cost per systems by 75% if all activity levels are maxed out.
This would make systems that are highly used very lucrative and unused systems very expensive.
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Dante Edmundo
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:35:00 -
[891]
I think the best response by CCP right now would be to announce a delay in the release. This will do two things:
1) Let their player base know they take them seriously and their gameplay (since you're losing a lot of trust as we speak) and even I believe will lose players - who knows how many but it could be quite a few.
2) Do a little more development - maybe a month more and use the valuable feedback provided in the disastrous forum response.
If I were in charge - these would be my moves to make.
I know delay costs money - but you have to realize you're in damage control mode now.
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WarDecEvading NPCCorpAlt
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:36:00 -
[892]
Originally by: Tommy Blue Wont having to have the the alliance members ratting/mining in a system to allow upgrades stop that from happening? And if they do it anyway, they would have to break up their large alliance into a bunch of smaller ones.
No, you'd more likely have "administrative" alliances that exist to do nothing but hold on to isolated chunks of space or jump bridge serial systems, set blue to everyone in the "real" alliance which lives in that space.
Quote: The only other reason for creating multiple smalle alliances/corps would be just to hold onto space, which is pointless. As bobby said earlier a couple times, the sprawl that you see in the larger alliances is due to personal posses n such. There will be no point in holding the masses of systems just to, well, have them.
Having it be prohibitively expensive to claim a large number of systems achieves this goal by itself. It's technically still possible to have a sprawling Empire, but it will be logistically more difficult to defend, you won't get DED mails from everywhere and you won't be able to do things like cynojam an entire region.
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Dream Hunter
Morne Attitude
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:38:00 -
[893]
So unless a system has a security status of -0.35 or less, 20+ belts, an R-64 moon and several R-32, why bother trying to upgrade it? This just moves the large alliance battles from being over R-64 moons to very low sec and high belt count systems. Making it totally impractical for a small alliance let alone a small corporation to set up in 0.0 space in their own system and have a reason to upgrade it. There is a lot of small corps and alliances that were hoping to be able to buy protection from a large alliance and be able to claim / upgrade their own system. With the current CCP vision of 0.0 and the high fortnight fees that canÆt happen.
What happened to trying to incent people to move to 0.0 space? Did you developers loose sight of your original goal? "Tell me what the rules are and I will tell you how I am going to win." - John Malone. |
Yon Krum
The Knights Templar R.A.G.E
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:40:00 -
[894]
Originally by: CCP Soundwave
Originally by: KUINNI
Originally by: CCP Soundwave They will not be titan level investments, I can assure you that.
so, if only for current brigde map of one ally needed about 60-70b every month - it's not titan level investments?
It was my impression he was speaking about buying infrastructure upgrades, and not the upkeep cost. If so, I misunderstood.
You misunderstood, CCP Soundwave. It's the whole cost. Upgrading a single system isn't the issue--that's money invested. Paying rent, and worse, paying rent on enough systems to keep your money coming in, long enough to get the development levels you need to support your population at a more concentrated density (ie. lower bills), that is the cost a starting alliance will have to bear until everything gets sorted. (30 pilots x 3 anoms = 10 systems, 30 pilots x 10 anoms = 3 systems--yes, ignoring belts)
And btw, ONLY the direct isk-infusion methods will help with the rent. Mining and professions sites make zero isk for the alliance unless the alliance buys at cut-rates and runs them into Empire. Minerals can make more money if turned into cap components (I'm looking at you, Dronelands), but that requires jump bridges to be done sanely.
Keep in mind, that for an alliance trying to develop space they are (they hope) spending much of their time just working on money--not running PVP sweeps or doing home defense. They do NOT want to be spending any time guarding a slow convoy of mineral freighters through the kiddie-pool of piranha we call 0.0.
It's worse the further out you get, because the logistics gets worse. Supposedly the truesec gets better, but because that's not actually the case (for reasons that escape me entirely), I do in fact shed a tear for the likes of Atlas.
--Krum --Krum |
Bonefish O'Hallahan
Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:41:00 -
[895]
At the current point, the new changes need to be modified in order to make this EQUIVALENT to the income of running Level 4 missions. That isn't accounting for the additional costs of transporting equipment to and from 0.0, travel time to and from 0.0, incidental costs associated with piracy, roamers, and last but not least, full scale war.
To put it in a different way, the new changes will arguably allow a similar level of income to Level 4s, but with the same vastly increased incidental and non-isk related costs that Empire dwellers don't have to shoulder. 0.0 is worse than botters in level 4s in terms of profitability. Get OUT CCP |
Ga'len
Minmatar Ship Construction Services Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:41:00 -
[896]
Originally by: Dante Edmundo Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 07/11/2009 16:36:45 I think the best response by CCP right now would be to announce a delay in the release. This will do two things:
1) Let their player base know they take them seriously and their gameplay - since you're losing a lot of trust as we speak, and that is not good at all.
2) Do a little more development - maybe a month more and use the valuable feedback provided in this obviously disastrous forum response from players.
If I were in charge - these would be my moves to make.
I know delay costs money - but you have to realize you're in damage control mode
now.
QFE.
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Evlyna
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:42:00 -
[897]
Edited by: Evlyna on 07/11/2009 16:41:51 Welcome to PVEve-Online.
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Sally Bestonge
GoonFleet GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:42:00 -
[898]
Originally by: Dastycakes Also CVA is gonna need a bailout or they are p. screwed. I fear the day i will nolonger hear the shouts of AMARR VICTOR in local. It was a good run CVA. Props for being killed by the devs, something the players could never do.
This is hilarious. We needed to bring the Devs in to kill them off with their game-changing hacks. haha
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Voltaire Leriel
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:43:00 -
[899]
When every bank (alliance), large and small goes bankrupt from these toxic assets (sovereignty), Iceland (CCP) will need to bail out everyone to keep any sort of financial system (0.0 gameplay) in existence. Iceland (CCP) will simply need to print as much ISK (ISK) as possible creating massive inflation while everyone continues to become unemployed (unsubscribed) and simply leave the country (game).
I probably got some of the underlying facts wrong, but it's still clever satire. _______________________________________ BIG IS RECRUITING |
Zahorite
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Posted - 2009.11.07 16:45:00 -
[900]
Originally by: Dante Edmundo Edited by: Dante Edmundo on 07/11/2009 16:36:45 I think the best response by CCP right now would be to announce a delay in the release. This will do two things:
1) Let their player base know they take them seriously and their gameplay - since you're losing a lot of trust as we speak, and that is not good at all.
2) Do a little more development - maybe a month more and use the valuable feedback provided in this obviously disastrous forum response from players.
If I were in charge - these would be my moves to make.
I know delay costs money - but you have to realize you're in damage control mode now.
I think I'd wait a little bit before calling for a delay. I expect that any decent CCP employees are running around Iceland like chickens with their heads cut off right now. However, it's completly possible that something went wrong with that one Dev blog. For instance those costs could be per an upkeep period rather than per a day. Or the upgrade system shown is just very basic and there are dozens of other upgrades already in the system they just didn't talk about in this blog, they may have only shown the upgrades that affect anomalies and not other areas.
I think the first thing they need to do is work on another blog that explains exactly what upgrades tehy have planned and any changes they have planned for anomalies and what exactly those changes are. They should be able to finish that in a day or two at most. Based on the response to that blog they could decide if Dominion needs more work or if simply tweaking the system will save it.
However, they first need to say clearly that they are working on this and if they need to will delay the system. I'm willing to give them a chance to explain some more and maybe even try out the system when it comes out. But if it's as bad as this blog makes it look, I'm going to switch to a different MMO and let my Eve character train while I wait for them to fix it.
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