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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 36 post(s)
Korodan Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.08 06:37:00 - [1711] Originally by: Johnster Originally by: Pointfive Honestly i was hoping to see upgrades more along these lines. i always though of 0.0 as being like the wild west. Where you venture out to dangerous lands to get shot at, control some territory make money, and occasionaly find gold. Concord Bounty Hunter Angent Relay - Allows LP gain for killing pirates in nullsec, create a pvp geared concord lp store Bounty increase - High activity in your system has driven away all but the most dangerous pirates. 15% bonus to pirate bounty per level Respawn Speed - High activity in this region has increased pirate activity in the system. 10% bonus to pirate respawn speed per level. Pirate hideout Locator - Each level increases the chance of locating rare hidden pirate hideout anomalies. These danger pirates do not drop faction items but have significantly increased bounty. Ship quality increase - Having Faced larger ships constantly, pirates begin to only appear in more difficult ships. Each level reduces the chance of a non battleship spawn by 20% oh and YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running. This is what we all expected really... The bounty hunter bonus should be anyone neut/hostile to owning alliance though, not based on their sec status, and possibly also give bounties to encourage players to defend against raiders in their home systems. /signed Yes, this would be the **** if you'd let us collect bounties by just blowing up ships. Killing pods in 0.0 is still pretty damn hard if you don't have a bubble.
Kraken Kill Arcana Imperii Ltd. Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.08 06:38:00 - [1712] What is the incentive for a 0.0 alliance with space to attack another 0.0 alliance with space? A smaller 0.0 alliance, 500 people maybe holding a constellation with 3 stations in, 8billion a month paid out. Thats without any Bridges to empire, so if they try to take some space thats fairly deep in 0.0 its even worse. 8billion for a 500man alliance with little to no moongood to hold a constellation. rly? Originally by: Bobby Atlas Edited by: Bobby Atlas on 08/11/2009 05:22:58 Originally by: Pointfive YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running. As CCP Chronitus pointed out, the amount of reward to offset a small amount of risk is allot but I also think that is a matter of perception, in either case it is not in of itself the argument being made. The actual argument being made by allot of people is the fact that 0.0 is less profitable than running LVL4 missions in empire and these upgrades in dominion do little if anything to change that situation. I personally have been playing eve for some 6 years now and I remember when I first came to 0.0 it was a niche idea that you came out here to make money, however that is something that quickly evaporated and has been the consensus for a long time that you do not come out to 0.0 to make money. This should not be the case, 0.0 should not be unprofitable or certainly not less profitable than empire - please do not counter about pvp risks etc.. as we all accept those risks and costs but that is not what we are talking about. The simple point is that 0.0 life is less profitable than LVL4 missions when in reality it should at very least be equal to or greater than. Allot of this boils down to lazy development work, I remember 2-3 years ago when the concept of touching the POS code was a nightmare to CCP, you said it wouldn't happen and were admit that it was a monumental challenge. This is the very same situation we see at the moment regarding making true sec values dynamic, belt numbers, the npc spawn density/value within and astroid types/density, all dynamic. This is something CCP needs to tackle head on, the proposed system we have in front of us now is the most indirect method possible of actually fixing the economic inadequacies of 0.0 and it is frankly very lazy way. I personally have never run a wormhole, never run an anomaly and I know for a fact I am not the only person, there is a large player base that is just not interested in it - we rather fight NPC's in belts in a far more straight forward fashion. So please, get off your collective behindes and rethink the implementation of dominion and actually addressing the economic issues and more importantly the short comings of the code base.
Jack Gates Gallente GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.08 06:39:00 - [1713] Originally by: Lockefox Late to the thread as usual, but going to throw my two isk into the pile. Though the system looks very good (and a welcome change to the way things are) looking at it from my alliance's perspective, the cost of entry is much higher than I expected. We were anticipating a significant forward investment, but this seems a little absurd. 30-50m (basically) per system? On top of the other costs already associated with the move (base towers, defenses, etc) to then slap on another "5 towers of fuel" cost seems a little high. If it were my call, I'd make the system 10% or 20% of the originally stated costs (maybe boost upgrade costs) and instead make holding more systems multiply that cost (similar to war mechanics). Or some sort of exponential curve along those lines. In sum, please don't lock us smaller guys out of 0.0. We want to rat and pvp and get blown up as much as anyone else! ~Locke thanks for keeping the fresh blood out of 0.0 because you can't figure out how your own game works, ccp.
Comunique	Posted - 2009.11.08 06:40:00 - [1714] Originally by: Bobby Atlas A lot of this boils down to lazy development work, I remember 2-3 years ago when the concept of touching the POS code was a nightmare to CCP, you said it wouldn't happen and were admit that it was a monumental challenge. This is the very same situation we see at the moment regarding making true sec values dynamic, belt numbers, the npc spawn density/value within and astroid types/density, all dynamic. This is something CCP needs to tackle head on, the proposed system we have in front of us now is the most indirect method possible of actually fixing the economic inadequacies of 0.0 and it is frankly very lazy way. Just going to leave this here...
Lucas Pantelis Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.08 06:41:00 - [1715] Why would you take space from your enemies when the financial burden of it hurts them more than a loss of sov?
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.08 06:43:00 - [1716] Originally by: Lucas Pantelis Why would you take space from your enemies when the financial burden of it hurts them more than a loss of sov? This is why you don't take it, you just render it unusuable by sitting cloakers in the system so they get the bill AND no benefit.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.11.08 06:46:00 - [1717] Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Originally by: Lucas Pantelis Why would you take space from your enemies when the financial burden of it hurts them more than a loss of sov? This is why you don't take it, you just render it unusuable by sitting cloakers in the system so they get the bill AND no benefit. Time to train up covert ops skill!!! Why are goons crying the most over the new sovereignty changes?
Lucas Pantelis Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.08 06:47:00 - [1718] Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Originally by: Lucas Pantelis Why would you take space from your enemies when the financial burden of it hurts them more than a loss of sov? This is why you don't take it, you just render it unusuable by sitting cloakers in the system so they get the bill AND no benefit. I'm struggling to see the benefit even if you don't **** up the system with cloakers.
Prognosys GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.08 06:48:00 - [1719] Edited by: Prognosys on 08/11/2009 06:48:02 Originally by: Hrodgar Ortal Originally by: Da Maddness YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running. I've seen you or someone else ask this every couple of pages. You won't get an answer that way, especially when asking it that often in the middle of the night for Icelanders. you're right there's no reason ccp would answer a question that gets asked every fifth post, it should've just been asked once and then never brought up again then again you might actually be right Quote: YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/h) than highsec L4 mission running.
Korodan Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.08 06:50:00 - [1720] Originally by: Lucas Pantelis Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Originally by: Lucas Pantelis Why would you take space from your enemies when the financial burden of it hurts them more than a loss of sov? This is why you don't take it, you just render it unusuable by sitting cloakers in the system so they get the bill AND no benefit. I'm struggling to see the benefit even if you don't **** up the system with cloakers. You get mini-profession sites, you know how awesome those are, don't you?

Zahorite	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:00:00 - [1721] Okay, first of all I like anything that is going to increase bounty system wide and increase the number of rats. However I have a couple of things to say. First if we are basing a large part of this upgrade on instances that players run we need to have a direct way that alliances gain from this in order to pay off the system upkeep and also the cost of putting those upgrades in the system to start with. Currently the loot and salvage go to the players that complete it, and the tax goes to the corporation those players are in not the alliance. How about an instant reward that goes straight to the alliance wallet whenever an anomaly is completed in a system that alliance holds Sov in. For a 10 of 10 anomaly this would be 10 million isk for a 1 of 10 it would be 1 million isk. Basically this would cover the upkeep and upgrade costs for the system involved as long as the alliance was active. Assuming that an alliance is very active this could allow them to put more in their ship replacement programs, but overall it would be directly related to players work as opposed to moon goo. Plus this would give an incentive for NRDS alliances to stay NRDS. Second the current anomaly system isn't going to work. All an enemy has to do is put one cloaked ship in the anomaly and it won't go away and a new one won't take it's place. Although I would love a way to find afk cloaked ships in a system I don't think that is going to happen anytime soon. So the solution is to put a limit on the anomaly so that once all npc's in it are killed it will despawn after 15 minutes. So putting a cloaked ship in the spawn will slow things down a bit, but only by 15 minutes unless the cloaked player moved from spawn to spawn. They are still able to go in, cloaked ships can't be found still, but this exploit won't work. ________________________________________________ If you can't beat them join them. YES OR NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable
Lucas Pantelis Merch Industrial GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:02:00 - [1722] Originally by: Korodan Originally by: Lucas Pantelis Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Originally by: Lucas Pantelis Why would you take space from your enemies when the financial burden of it hurts them more than a loss of sov? This is why you don't take it, you just render it unusuable by sitting cloakers in the system so they get the bill AND no benefit. I'm struggling to see the benefit even if you don't **** up the system with cloakers. You get mini-profession sites, you know how awesome those are, don't you? You mean those things I can already find more of than I'd want to run* without any upgrades? *to be fair though even 1 is more than I'd want
RO3	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:09:00 - [1723] Edited by: RO3 on 08/11/2009 07:10:41 I really must have had the blinkers on when i read those first dominion blogs...here's what i was looking forward to System sov costs based on the wardec system that allowed easy entry for fledgling 0.0 corps and alliances, initial system a nominal value of say 100mil per month and each additional system added getting a 20% penalty per system to prevent huge 'afk' alliances System improvement resulting in better ratting, either increasing the truesec spawn values to give better spawns or even better allowing spawns of 6 bs or so that encourage collaborative play and allow more residents of a system to rat at once System improvements for mining easy increase the respawn rate of roids to a max point that it respawns every dt Some sort of security benefit to holding sov,especially after all the investment in stations for constellation sov immunity particularly for cap ship arrays. An easily administered rental and billing system Like many others i moved to 0.0 many years ago, in search of riches, and they were there, rare asteroids in the belts, the worst kind of pirates with huge bounties, amazing modules. I got addicted to the political intrigue the ever shifting landscape etc, but there was one 'problem' you could lose it all overnight in station ping pong, and so the pos and sov system was born. We were encouraged to build bridges between the stars and populate the far away places, opening up nullsec to those that wanted it, we harvested anything we could find, and turned the isk and raw material into vast fleets of capital ships to take the conquest to our neighbours, we built vast bridge networks so the logistics of war could flow. And ccp, what do you do? you plot to undermine our great creations, and prevent others from doing the same, to prohibit the movement of pilots and goods to those far flung places. Why should they leave their safe places? What riches really await them? excuse the alt post...i only post once every 4 years...lol
Irongut H A V O C Against ALL Authorities	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:10:00 - [1724] [ ] YES OR [ ] NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/time/effort) than highsec L4 mission running. --
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:17:00 - [1725] Originally by: Irongut [ ] YES OR [XXX] NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/time/effort) than highsec L4 mission running. Why are goons crying the most over the new sovereignty changes?
Bobby Atlas Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:19:00 - [1726] Edited by: Bobby Atlas on 08/11/2009 07:20:26 This thread is quickly becoming a trial in patience and repetitive dialog, I think the majority of reasonable cases have been made and hope that CCP actually put time into reading through the many well articulated arguments presented.
Korodan Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:31:00 - [1727] Originally by: Bobby Atlas Edited by: Bobby Atlas on 08/11/2009 07:20:26 This thread is quickly becoming a trial in patience and repetitive dialog, I think the majority of reasonable cases have been made and hope that CCP actually put time into reading through the many well articulated arguments presented. This is CCP you're talking about, you have to keep bashing them over the head to get them to understand why they have a bad idea.
EdFromHumanResources Caldari GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:31:00 - [1728] Originally by: Irongut [ ] YES OR [ ] NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/time/effort) than highsec L4 mission running. Every powerbloc in the game is now spoken for.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:42:00 - [1729] Honestly though, we really could do with some constructive input and predictions from SnotShot... Why are goons crying the most over the new sovereignty changes?
Tres Farmer Gallente Federation Intelligence Service	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:43:00 - [1730] << not a 0.0 sov holder here. @CCP Interesting stuff.. though a question.. would it be possible to attach a generic mission agent module to the HUB (agent in space thingy)? For starters call them "Frontier Agent 45632" and let them hand out missions (dont neet to be a full fleshed out agent really.. a mission generator like in PRIVATEER would do) This would calm down a lot of people in here I think. @Sov holding players.. If YOUR costs rise, leverage them on the products you ship out to empire. Easy. If it's more expensive to run these towers in your backyard.. sell the moon-goo (and related products) for more till it meets YOUR costs. And if you need to get rid of competition created by others, kill their towers in low sec. Kill competition and charge what you need to charge for your stuff. Simple.

Tesal	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:46:00 - [1731] Originally by: Marlona Sky Originally by: EdFromHumanResources Originally by: Lucas Pantelis Why would you take space from your enemies when the financial burden of it hurts them more than a loss of sov? This is why you don't take it, you just render it unusuable by sitting cloakers in the system so they get the bill AND no benefit. Time to train up covert ops skill!!! Got cloak? never stop posting...with alts. Please do not use inappropriate language in your sig. Zymurgist
Astal Atlar Caldari Priory Of The Lemon Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:47:00 - [1732] Ok i occasionaly post but,ccp this time you really make the o.o population go nuts. As boby some aliance and corp mates have stated the expansion comming in this form is let say it ridicilous. Claiming you want to see more people in o.o you make the things go other way more people will leave o.o. Why should we pay as aliance 15 bil just to have our jb network to empire as we are in deep o.o,as we could move for example in esoteria or syndikate run pirate mission and get rich with no risk at alll. As our military strenght will stay intact,and just put few cyno jamers in r64 moons and thats it Basicaly the price of the upgrades and their size is wtf, the lvl 5 upgrade is a freighter size,so yeah try to move several 30+ jumps from empire and if as it stated freighters are not able to use jb,it become logistic nightmare. But yes you were able to do one thing with this patch and last blog, all the big alliance in the game even the sworn enemies are stating one thing this thing is failure as it stands now. I just dont want to coment the upgrades 2 anomalies more per system bigger chance for ded plex 1 more hidden belt, pure failure to scan is ok but you know that the best income come from escalations path and not every plex escalate and a simple anomaly is about 40-50 worth,while in the time you scan get the ship and do the anomaly a carebear in empire will make the same money. So for now dominion stay for failure about o.o honestly
gambrinous	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:48:00 - [1733] I bought a raven
Bobby Atlas Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:48:00 - [1734] Edited by: Bobby Atlas on 08/11/2009 07:49:37 Originally by: Tres Farmer << not a 0.0 sov holder here. @CCP Interesting stuff.. though a question.. would it be possible to attach a generic mission agent module to the HUB (agent in space thingy)? For starters call them "Frontier Agent 45632" and let them hand out missions (dont neet to be a full fleshed out agent really.. a mission generator like in PRIVATEER would do) This would calm down a lot of people in here I think. @Sov holding players.. If YOUR costs rise, leverage them on the products you ship out to empire. Easy. If it's more expensive to run these towers in your backyard.. sell the moon-goo (and related products) for more till it meets YOUR costs. And if you need to get rid of competition created by others, kill their towers in low sec. Kill competition and charge what you need to charge for your stuff. Simple. It took great wars to offset the resources for producing t2 (dysp/prom) and even then that requires a protracted great war where by the supply existing already in empire can be out paced by demand. The problem with the changes are that allot of the t2 production is getting shifted to intermediate moons where there are an order of 4-5 times as many of those intermediate moons across eve, so a great war impacting the production of t2 products will be nearly impossible if not completely impossible.
Bobby Atlas Di-Tron Heavy Industries Atlas Alliance	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:54:00 - [1735] Originally by: gambrinous I bought a raven I fly drakes.
Super Whopper I can Has Cheeseburger	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:55:00 - [1736] Originally by: Irongut [ ] YES OR [ ] NO: Due to the increased risk and logistics effort required, 0.0 should be more - not as - profitable (in raw isk/time/effort) than highsec L4 mission running. How dare you even contemplate comparing CCP's holy cow: LVL 4's with the back end of beyond where nobody should live: 0.0!
feffrey	Posted - 2009.11.08 07:56:00 - [1737] Question: is having sov really necessary? Unless I am missing something these are all the things that are dependent on sov Anchoring cap building stuff Saving on fuel costs for towers Upgrading your system to make it better Having an outpost JB's, and cyno stuff Having systems colored by your alliance on dotlan Unless I am missing something nothing else in 0.0 NEEDS sov to work. With all these added costs why not save money and not claim sov in places where you don't need above? Even if you don't have sov, you can still rat, mine, put up pos's, etc. These prices seem really crazy high (and I do think they need to be lower) but why not consolidate the places that you have sov. Not like you can do stuff in systems that you do not have sov in. Also I thought I remember reading somewhere that fuel costs were going go way down for pos as well. Is that true?
Aquinzus Amarr Modern Marvels	Posted - 2009.11.08 08:00:00 - [1738] What you people who have never once set foot in 0.0 space, never once raised a rifter to take 0.0 space, never raised a rifter to defend 0.0 space, and never once ever lived in 0.0 space FAIL to understand is that the big juicy Alliances with all the Moon Goo Gold are not really making thier members any isk, they investing it into Capital Programs, Mothership Programs, and Titan programs. Apparantly you guys must never get to 0.0 if you think it is all fun and happy with isk dripping off the gates. How do you think 200 Titans got in game, and god knows how many Motherships and Capitals ? What do you think paid for all fo that ? Mooon Gooo Gold baby! 85% of the inhabitants of 0.0 have less ISK in thier pockets than your average Empire dweller. I frequent Providence, Great Wildlands, some Curse etc etc and peopel I speak to trade with and buy from all tell me the same, the rocks are crap, rats are crap, and Corps and Alliances pool all the Moon Goo to buy and build Capital fleets. I really feel bad for the miners in Providence, low sec Misaba and Assah has better Ore than Providence, only a few system in Great Wildlands and Curse have anything better. How are people to make any sort of income mining crap, and ratting crap? Drone regions mine with Missles, that is where 90% of the zydrine megacyte and morphite comes from that is on the market. The good systems where there is decent Ore, people will shoot you for just looking at the belts. How am I to go out there and plant a flag and be left alone so I can grow a corp and Alliance ? Never gonna happen, not when it will cost me billions per month just to plant that flag before I get the first thing out of it. Thanks but no thanks, I will stick to Empire trading mining and manufacturing where it is safer, peaceful, and I have some security and stability.
Korodan Minmatar GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.08 08:01:00 - [1739] Originally by: Bobby Atlas Originally by: gambrinous I bought a raven I fly drakes. ** that **, let's just some smartbombing geddons and make the price of Hulks and Mackinaws spike. It'd be a gas - especially with the moon material production slowing down.
Prognosys GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.08 08:02:00 - [1740] Originally by: feffrey Question: is having sov really necessary? Unless I am missing something these are all the things that are dependent on sov Anchoring cap building stuff Saving on fuel costs for towers Upgrading your system to make it better Having an outpost JB's, and cyno stuff Having systems colored by your alliance on dotlan Unless I am missing something nothing else in 0.0 NEEDS sov to work. With all these added costs why not save money and not claim sov in places where you don't need above? Even if you don't have sov, you can still rat, mine, put up pos's, etc. These prices seem really crazy high (and I do think they need to be lower) but why not consolidate the places that you have sov. Not like you can do stuff in systems that you do not have sov in. Also I thought I remember reading somewhere that fuel costs were going go way down for pos as well. Is that true? So in order to not spend all our money on upkeep, alliances should just not hold sov and therefore not be able to use the upgrades that were half the point of dominion. BRILLIANT



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