normally i would be tempted to write some poignant variation of 'man the fuck up'. in this case though, this would be absolutely inappropriate as the OP is factually right about pretty much everything he said. the only valid reason to plex for amarr is to allow your minmatar alt to counterplex.

Thinking maybe the Amarr should just join the Caldari and come get some! Who needs 4 militias!

Soundwave said before inferno that if you lose you lose that's the way it's designed, seriously losing all our space is supposed to be painful if we're getting curb stomped then we can't expect to make money out of it.

You should just quit and go do something else.

You should just quit and go do something else.

Now if I was the op I'd be a bit miffed with my fellow Amarrian FW brothers joining the TLF with alts and doing a lot of the plexing against the Amarrian effort. That kind of thing is not really helping your position in the warzone.

To be honest. Any Amarr plexing now is a fool. Every system you take back yields the tards
another 20 bil. If you must plex then plex there key systems wich they wanne keep and will
deplex or your doing it wrong.

Why would CCP fix it? War doesn't have to be 50/50 balanced as what would be the point of the whole system if one side couldn't beat another?

So what is left for the Amarr?

- 24th LP shop is dead. Nothing there is worth buying anymore since there are no Exclusive
24th items to get. This means I can get an navy slicer cheaper in Jita then I can get it
from my own shop!
- Plexing for LP is therefore worthless. If you do go out plexing you are mostly splitting up rewards
as the mediums and majors can't be soloed by the Amarr.
- Level 4 Faction war missions are also worthless. You can't pickup enough of
them due the loss of many systems with an l4 in it, and you can't dock to speak with the
agent.
- Plexing for tags is the only thing left. Again you find you self fighting for bones and
then you have to make it back to that special place where you are allowed to dock. Only
the medium and large are worth doing here.

I think this is why Hans was for a system reset before he was against it. Only thing I can say is get your income through other methods and farm LP for later use.

Your phone booth of a warzone is a lot easier to get your control up than ours is. We down-on-our-luck Caldari got to tier 3 for about an hour this morning and a bunch of us were able to buy navy scorps and sell them off before the buy orders could adjust. I had a scorp collecting dust in hi sec, so I a got a cool 400 mil spending less than a quarter of my LP.

And if the Minmatar are blobbing in the bottom half of the warzone, go live in Akkio or Gultratren and make them divide their forces to defend systems.

It's the Amarr who are the slaves.

....


Alba, over and out

I find it awesome that the bible thumpers in game and out of game are Essentually doing the same thing. Just replace CCP with god. (no offense meant to the religious type, it's just the same story.)

Funny how the only ones I see bringing up religion in gaming forums are the ones who have an apparent disdain for it.

I have no issues with religion at all actually. It's just their followers that annoy me...

Actually they are getting their asses handed to them, and crying about 'ECM and Blobbing' more often than not.

*Shrug* BIG PLAYS!

This is war, and there is nothing for CCP to fix. This has worked beautifully, and I say this as a long time vested Amarr Ally. Bottom line, is you are beaten. On a fundamental level your will to fight has been destroyed. This much is evidenced from your post. You, and people like you are clearly not fit to take up arms, and, as you say, are now destined to become servile dogs and Lackeys of the Minmatar., your women carted off to their pleasure houses for their vast standing armies, your children made cup-bearers , or worse, for their officers.

That you declare yourself defeated before the last system has fallen, before Minmatar has taken them all and then held them for months turns my stomach.

When someone with new ideas, with a new way to wage war, with an iron will that he can impose on Amarr militia, with a vision of how to move forward, who can inspire men to fight, then, Amarr can make a fight of it. With guys like you, with your attitude, yes, you are beaten.

I get the point that you are screwed and dont really have the means to wage an effective war at the moment.( That, of course, is supposing that your imagination and resourcefullness is restricted to using FW mechanics to fund your wat chests, hint hint.......)But even from where I sit on the other side of the galaxy I can think of 50 things Amarr can do to make a fight of it, and to attack the minmatar in both their wallet and their spirit.

You guys need a real leader, one who isn't constrained by pre-existing ideas of how factional warfare should be fought.
Make your money elsewhere, and prepare and launch an offensive.Recruit. Degrade their systems so their LP is worth **** even if you can't take them. Attack their mission running hubs.Do SOMETHING.

They can take every system and the war is not over if your will to fight is intact. Or,you can have 11 systems, and you are done if you do not have the will to fight.......

Either way, CCP shouldnt fix anything.you got beat fair and square. and was your own fault for not going on the offensive 6 weeks before the patch came out so you would have a chance like caldari did.Gallente hold more systems, our LP is worth ****, but I dont think ANYONE besides Gallente trolls would say Caldari is dead or finished.Old faces return to militia every day.This war is far from over.

When someone with new ideas, with a new way to wage war, with an iron will that he can impose on Amarr militia, with a vision of how to move forward, who can inspire men to fight, then, Amarr can make a fight of it. With guys like you, with your attitude, yes, you are beaten.

I get the point that you are screwed and dont really have the means to wage an effective war at the moment.

It's the Amarr who are the slaves.

Let the Minmatar farm LP until they flood the market and start making crap profit.

Let the Minmatar farm LP until they flood the market and start making crap profit.

It's the Amarr who are the slaves.

Yes you read it right. We, the Amarr are the real slaves. We are kept on a tight leash

only to open a new farm ground by taking a system for the Minmatar to harvest.
The Amarr have so few systems left that we under the current game mechanics we can't recover.

So what is left for the Amarr?

- 24th LP shop is dead. Nothing there is worth buying anymore since there are no Exclusive
24th items to get. This means I can get an navy slicer cheaper in Jita then I can get it
from my own shop!
- Plexing for LP is therefore worthless. If you do go out plexing you are mostly splitting up rewards
as the mediums and majors can't be soloed by the Amarr.
- Level 4 Faction war missions are also worthless. You can't pickup enough of
them due the loss of many systems with an l4 in it, and you can't dock to speak with the
agent.
- Plexing for tags is the only thing left. Again you find you self fighting for bones and
then you have to make it back to that special place where you are allowed to dock. Only
the medium and large are worth doing here.

To be honest. Any Amarr plexing now is a fool. Every system you take back yields the tards
another 20 bil. If you must plex then plex there key systems wich they wanne keep and will
deplex or your doing it wrong.
So what should we do. I think we should give up all our systems. We should fall back to
empire space. Let the Tards have it all.
We generate not enough income to sustain the habbit. We have no appeal to anybody coming
from outside. Tard numbers are allready skyrocketing since every farmer with half a brain
is joining them. Let the Amarr tard war die. When they have all our systems they can run
l4 missions in there stealth bombers 24/7. Fine with me, since CCP is just scratching
there asses anyway. The quicker we give it up the sooner the fix. Let it all go and lay
back. You can still do pvp. You can still dock in Amarr space.

Amarr victor, and give another 20 bil to the enemy F00Ls. Wake TF up.

Alba, over and out

Perhaps you should liquidate luxury assets (such as your field marshals coat). Last I saw they were valued for nearly a billion isk. That should buy a nice fleet of coercers and slicers to keep fighting the war.

you mean that pro elite pvper bigbigsomething that fly with 2 falcons "solo"?
yeah he is a pro and he is kicking our asses badly, the war is lost we might just pull back to high sec and let you guys take all the warzone.

words

You complain a lot.

You're ignoring the very important changes upcoming: The removal of EWAR on rats on the 19th.

Once this is done, you can go out and solo opposing plexes in pvp ships just like the minmatar can.

no we still cant.

removing ewar isnt enough you dunder head.

even in our own highsec with our rats having 90% web on wartarget minmatar dramiel they can still orbit and our npcs wont lay a shot on em.

I would like to introduce you to the Huginn and Rapier... they do hilarious things to people speed tanking majors. (Extra Credit if you team up with a Arazu/Lachesis)

Try it out sometime.

You kept your cool pretty well there, I'm not sure I could handle being called a "dunder head"

It's the Amarr who are the slaves.

Yes you read it right. We, the Amarr are the real slaves. We are kept on a tight leash

only to open a new farm ground by taking a system for the Minmatar to harvest.
The Amarr have so few systems left that we under the current game mechanics we can't recover.

So what is left for the Amarr?

- 24th LP shop is dead. Nothing there is worth buying anymore since there are no Exclusive
24th items to get. This means I can get an navy slicer cheaper in Jita then I can get it
from my own shop!
- Plexing for LP is therefore worthless. If you do go out plexing you are mostly splitting up rewards
as the mediums and majors can't be soloed by the Amarr.
- Level 4 Faction war missions are also worthless. You can't pickup enough of
them due the loss of many systems with an l4 in it, and you can't dock to speak with the
agent.
- Plexing for tags is the only thing left. Again you find you self fighting for bones and
then you have to make it back to that special place where you are allowed to dock. Only
the medium and large are worth doing here.

To be honest. Any Amarr plexing now is a fool. Every system you take back yields the tards
another 20 bil. If you must plex then plex there key systems wich they wanne keep and will
deplex or your doing it wrong.
So what should we do. I think we should give up all our systems. We should fall back to
empire space. Let the Tards have it all.
We generate not enough income to sustain the habbit. We have no appeal to anybody coming
from outside. Tard numbers are allready skyrocketing since every farmer with half a brain
is joining them. Let the Amarr tard war die. When they have all our systems they can run
l4 missions in there stealth bombers 24/7. Fine with me, since CCP is just scratching
there asses anyway. The quicker we give it up the sooner the fix. Let it all go and lay
back. You can still do pvp. You can still dock in Amarr space.

Amarr victor, and give another 20 bil to the enemy F00Ls. Wake TF up.

Alba, over and out

I'm not sure I could manage a space-brothel either.

You sure do get mad at 8 man blobs though.

I made you a picture

Holy hell !! you sure do have alot of free time.

here is a tip for you, Amun & Blackbeard, which you posted both of their killmails, can probably fund a larger alliance than yours for a very long time, bellieve it or not they dont care about isk one bit.
all i see is a punch of alts, that are somewhat jealous that they cant fly such expensive stuff and get verry excited about a stabber fleet kill.

another advice for you, dont waste your free time on making such a huge copy pasted image, and maybe then you can afford to fly expensive stuff like they do, thats if you know what i mean.

Its not that we can't wage a war I think we can. Its just that *how* you win this war is pretty mind numbing. You get a bunch of alts in pve ships to orbit a button in a back water systems. You bring pretty much all the systems to vulnerable or close to vulnerable. Dont flip them! And for god sakes don't flip them right next to where the minnie blobs roam anyway.

Only after you have about 3/4s of the systems close to vulnerable throughout the war zone, then you start a push to actually flip them all - likely with outside support. You can likely easilly pay the support with all that soon to be valuable lp.

If the minmatar keep trying to defend these plexes they will get no lp for their time they will get more tired of this than we will. We will get lp that will be worth a fortune once we flip the systems. That is how the system is supposed to work.

Will this actually work if we tried it?

I doubt it. The system is pretty unbalanced in favor of the winning side. So its possible that all those minmatar who are currently just farming plexes in caldari space will come back to protect their prized egg. However, I will say that the current strategy of thinking some "frontline" systems are somehow "key" is never going to work for amarr. They aren't key and the resources used to hold on to them would be much better spent elsewhere - from an occupancy war perspective. However an occupancy war perspective, is distinct from a pvpers perspective.

Which brings us to the main reason this probably won't work. It is because lots of amarr are getting allot of pvp right next to minmatar bases and they really don't care about who wins this war enough to go base out of Amo and run plexes without fights for months on end. So they will stay in those areas and continue to do what they are doing now.

I think they are more interested in flying "free" Stabber Fleet Issues than making boatloads of isk - at least the guys in my corp are.

Well, like I said, it is about the will to fight.Apparently you are saying that Amarr are content to simply shoot at Minmatar, and nothing more.Gallente honestly have a similar attitude. look at stats, we are earning VP at twice their rate.

I would like to introduce you to the Huginn and Rapier... they do hilarious things to people speed tanking majors. (Extra Credit if you team up with a Arazu/Lachesis)

Try it out sometime.

If its riches and rewards your after you should seek more profitable ways to make a living.
In the meantime there is a life and death struggle going on between two life long enemies people are out there dying, fighting for their freedom,their beliefs and some national pride. If thats not enough to motivate you then you might be in the wrong place.

When we captured every single Gallente system did we get rewards and LP? No, hell all I got was a shiney bit of metal around my neck and a thank you for your service.
Im thinking of returning to the war front shortly,but it sure as hell nothing to do with any rewards I just want to do my bit for the state.

But Gallente are earning more VP/day than the Minmatar, and that's with a bunch of us in Minmatar militia capping Caldari plexes (where our VP don't count towards any totals). So, does that mean Minmatar only care about is fighting too? Are Caldari the only ones who are more interersted in plexes than real pvp?

Otherwise you're right. 2x and 4x payout is likely over the top and encourages more farmers for Minmatar - making it nearly impossible for Amarr to win back systems. They have to fight Minmatar Militia - which is better at Occupancy Warfare anyways - and farmers (many of which are their own alts).

Gallente/Caldari side is fairly even, but it appears that the farmers on the Caldari side will likely win the day unless Minmatar farmers move to our theater where there are an unlimited number Caldari plexes available for them to build up Minmatar LP (no competition for limited number of systems as you guys have now). Will afk Minmatar farmers with self-repping incursi be enough to counter afk Caldari farmers in T1 Merlins/rifters? I guess we'll find out soon enough.

Well, like I said, it is about the will to fight.Apparently you are saying that Amarr are content to simply shoot at Minmatar, and nothing more.Gallente honestly have a similar attitude. look at stats, we are earning VP at twice their rate.
I also notice that Amarr are NOT that far behind minmatar as far as VP earned a day.They dont have way more guys plexing..

What will happen, i think eventually, if you dont start hitting and degrading their systems, is they will be rich enough long enough that the PvP that Amarer is satisfied with now will become unsatisfying as Minmatar switches to exclusively Faction ships, and then those fights that you do get become more lopsided than they are now and then you really will have lost,

Right now Minmatars perceived victory is a matter of morale.In a couple of months it will be an economic dominance so strong that resistance will be futile....

I agree but we are doing the plexing in a way that makes it entertaining for them to do the defensive plexing. That is we are doing the offensive plexing in systems where their pvp blobs will roam anyway. So they can get some fights and not just solely sit on a button for no reward.

Why are we doing that? Because we don't want to sit on a button with no pvp even if we get a reward. Its not what we signed up for, and its a boring game mechanic. I mean I can "win" the guiness book of world records for sitting in a chair the longest time if I have the "will" to win it. FW right now has more to do with who has more time to waste doing pve rather than who is better at pvp or better at "figuring out" strategies. Like I said the strategy I outlined isn't so hard to figure out. Its just that the execution is so boring no one wants to spend real life free time doing that.





Oh they already had loads of lp that they cashed in. They fly more sfis than we can afford thrashers. This is already a done deal. Those who were lucky enough to be in minmatar faction war before ccp changed the rules already received a huge payday.

And yes I mean lucky for the vast majority of them. They can thank sasawong who has more vp as in individual than any minmatar corporation. So yes sasawong and probably a few others in IO earned whatever they were able to cash in. But the majority who wouldn't plex before this patch just got a huge windfall thanks to ccp changing the rules.

Now to hear them talk about how they are winning because of some sort of pvp prowess is pretty sickening.

...I just form or join gangs, go out looking for gallente to kill and when they dont show, run plexes hoping they do...

Well, i agree with you on most points. I also actually agree with the OP to a point. but the lack of will in my mind takes precedence over anything else.

if CCP were to change mechanics, I would think that forcing all the rats to be killed before plex closes would do enough.You want webbing rats as well, will that solve the issue? Ok, if you like, but I still think a minor should be able to be completed solo.

[quote=Jade Constantine]
I'm not sure I could manage a space-brothel either.

You sure do get mad at 8 man blobs though.

I made you a picture

But if we really wanted to win this war we would get in our pve ships and start taking back water systems to vulnerable or close to vulnerable but not flipping them. Then once a large number are close like that we would do a push to flip the lot of them in a short time push.

Its pretty straight forward strategy that is why I don't mind posting it here.

The problem is no one wants to do that much pve.

Your picture shows that neither I nor the person losing ships was complaining about "blobs" - and strangly enough both I, Amun, and several others hung around fighting whilst you fled and docked up. I quite like Fweddit when you are being reckless combat loons but your forum propaganda is woeful.

So in short: FarmVilleGäó.

People willing to accept my statement, made just after the patch, that FW was over-incentivized and downright broken by changes yet?

edited.. also between Caldari & Gallente, Caldari has had more kills this week and for the month according to the FW stats in game. So those that try to claim we aren't fighting are full of it. (keep in mind it only counts war target kills & not neuts/pies)

Does it count Minmatar militia that you kill/are killed by?

100 guys on comms yesterday and we were running plexes in gangs, looking for fight.
When gallente did finally show their faces was after we flipped 2 systems, and they came with a BS heavy fleet with heavy logistic support.

You had 100 guys on comms and couldn't come up with a fleet to match that? Really???
We had a 40 man fleet. So we came out in BSes? Go get yours and let's go! I find it hard to believe that out of "100 guys" you couldn't come up with BSes and logi support.

Or you know, 100 drakes == 300,000 alpha IIRC. Just alpha the BS's one by one.

I would like to introduce you to the Huginn and Rapier... they do hilarious things to people speed tanking majors. (Extra Credit if you team up with a Arazu/Lachesis)

Try it out sometime.

What makes you think you are the only one that said changes were gonna be bad? There were a lot of us that said this would likely end with one side not being able to recover. It looked like Caldari were going to go the same route as Amarr and lose all our space. Gals counted on it and Caldari expected it.

We instead fought back, and have now reached a almost even war zone control being 50/51 between Caldari & Gallente. We have 4 Gal systems vulnerable and have a few of our own close to vulnerable. Caldari fought out numbered and simply used better tactics to hold our head above water long enough for the new influx of numbers to FW to make a difference.

Amarr on other hand rolled over and stopped trying with corps like your own giving up.

edited.. also between Caldari & Gallente, Caldari has had more kills this week and for the month according to the FW stats in game. So those that try to claim we aren't fighting are full of it. (keep in mind it only counts war target kills & not neuts/pies)

id like to introduce you to the reality of playing this game.

1 our npcs in highsec have 90% webs and still wont hit for ****

2 our npcs in major plexs dont have webs at all.

Using aforementioned logic EVEN IF WE HAD THEM WEBBED' OUR NPCS WOULDNT HIT THEM.

Well there would be allot more "will" to fight this occupancy war if it involved allot of quality pvp. You can blame the players for not having the "will" to do allot of pve all you want. I guess I don't really see my lack of interest in shooting red crosses for hours on end as any sort of flaw in my character.

If ccp wants players in faction war to have a "will" to win then they need to make faction war something that is viewed as something as meritorious to win. IMO if they made winning faction war based on being good at small scale pvp they would accomplish that. But as long as winning is based on who can sit there shooting red crosses, fw will always be lolfw.

I have posted my views on what should be done with the rats many places. I won't go into it allot here. But in sum the rats shouldn't play much of a role if any at all. The war should be won by the players not the npcs.

Your killboard says otherwise.

Anyways, the fact that Gallente having second most VP every day (which does not count the four corps who plex heavily while in Minmatar militia) means they are very much participating in Occupancy War. The Caldari + farming alts are simply plexing like crazy.

Your killboard says otherwise.

Anyways, the fact that Gallente having second most VP every day (which does not count the four corps who plex heavily while in Minmatar militia) means they are very much participating in Occupancy War. The Caldari + farming alts are simply plexing like crazy.

Does it count Minmatar militia that you kill/are killed by?

Also, the Caldari have never been outnumbered, militia stats have always had you with a significant numbers advantage over the gallente, just a lot of that advantage used to be farmers in stealth bombers: Now you have a mechanic to leverage all the farmers you have in your militia.

Not really even comparisons....

Another ammar tears thread.
CCP cant change the fact that the minnies worked hard to get were we are today. We are all communicating and working together like never before. I'm even being nice to jade o.0

While u all sit back and complain. We are full steam ahead.
Its sad that we can plex for hours in kamela and no one undocks unless First General is there to hold your hands.

QFT^

Most of us can't be arsed to play Thrasher Online atm :)

It's a shame there's only one size of plexes, right?


Also, stop derailing this wonderful thread with gallente/caldari whines, start your own for that!

I'm talking about minmitar's use of Thrasher after Thrasher. And yeah, you can pretty much use them for all your plexing needs I here

You had 100 guys on comms and couldn't come up with a fleet to match that? Really???
We had a 40 man fleet. So we came out in BSes? Go get yours and let's go! I find it hard to believe that out of "100 guys" you couldn't come up with BSes and logi support.

It sounds more to me like they rolled out a big fleet as a show of force so they could say: "Oh, we brought out a fleet but the big bad Gallente were too scared to play with the mighty Caldari." And when the Gallente brought out their own, bigger fleet instead of using those "100 guys" to ship up and get a fight (like they "wanted"), they turned tail and docked up not to be seen for the rest of the day.

If you claim to have 100 guys in comms, you have no room to complain about an enemy's fleet comp when it's less than half of what you have in comms. You tell a room with 100 Gallente in it there's a 42 man Caldari fleet flying BSes with logi, I guarantee you you'll get a fleet to spar with them and probably have to turn people away to boot.

You do realize that prior to the patches we were something like 15 or more systems in the hole to Gallente? We had lost our home system Enaluri. We had maybe 3 agent systems left in low sec and came very close to losing two of those 3, the week of the patch.

We were in no better shape than Amarr, prior to the week before the patch came out and in all honestly I think Amarr were better off because Caldari couldn't even field a BC gang at the time. We didn't have a rosy out look and pretty much everyone had to evac their stuff to high sec or to some station system that wasn't a likely target.

The thing that made the difference for Caldari is our plexing guys kept plexing and Caldari would get a system flip every once in a while and manage to flip a bunker in the odd hours of the night. Gals would of course just take it back, but we knew we could take systems but just couldn't hold them.

That gave us one opportunity.. The week of the patch we didn't roll over and let Gals steam roll our last few important systems. Instead we went on the offensive and put an all out effort to flip station systems that Gals were living in. We put them on the defense which meant they couldn't roll anymore of our system instead they had to defend.

We failed at capturing any systems in our efforts but we succeeded in stopping them from taking any new systems prior to the patch. After the patch, it started to become apparent that the patch wasn't going to be as bad as we thought and actually might favor the way Caldari has been playing the last year.

Simply put the patch favors the side that spreads out it's forces and attacks all across the map, instead of staying boxed up in one area. This is what Caldari had been forced into doing by the Gal blobs, but ironically it became what has allowed turn the fight in our favor.

Amarr could have done what Caldari has done and in all honestly you still can.. To win the new sov system you have to spread your corps out across the map where they can attack their local systems but more importantly defend those systems that are captured.

Uhmm, for the record I made no complaint whatsoever. I didnt say there was anything wrong with what Gallente did so please do not put words in my mouth I did not give you leave to do so.

Now if you are claiming that we didn't have those numbers on comms, ok, whatever, suit yourself. I, and everyone else who was on knows we did. Why you see fit to call him who you know not, a liar, i dunno.

Taking 2 systems and almost finishing a 3rd is not a show of force. We were doing something. It also it becomes apparent from your posts that you werent, in fact, actually online at the time, or at least not there. Have no idea why you are even posting in the thread other than to troll, TBH.

As far as not being seen the rest of the day, we did in fact bust the bunker in the third system a short time later. It's ours now.Again, wrong. Again.

To restate, i have no complaints about the Gals, i never complain about what they do in the field, never have, I simply stated we couldnt match their fleet so we didnt give battle. Thats not a whine, just a fact.

Another poster wants to pretend i am claiming we had 100 drakes available. in the 45 man fleet we had, we only had 15 BCs and the rest were smaller ships, so no, i wasn't gonna fight a 40 man BS gang with logi support.

Mock all you want, i think it's really just a case of the gals crying sour grapes after we spent the afternoon plexing, flipping systems, blowing up gallente ships and then, hours later when they finally respond we split after we had done the damage.

Win for us, fail for you. The fact is you arent winning anymore. Deal with it.Maybe if you didnt wait almost 3 hours to raise a proper fleet youd still own those systems

Bottom line, when patch came out ,we owned 41 systems, you had the rest. It's now 53 to 48, In Caldari's favor, and changed during the aforementioned events.You can claim victory all you want. reality says otherwise.You are losing, loser.

Sure looked like complaining to me.

I didn't question it. Merely quoted your number.

I was in the fleet that busted the Korasen bunker and the following Battleship fleet.

In case you haven't seen my other posts, I don't care about taking or losing systems. It bores me to no end and the only reason I was at the Korasen bunker was I heard y'all might be coming.

We were just saying out of 100 guys in comms you should've been able to come up with a fleet.

You sure have an inferiority complex going on.

Exactly.Wasn't anything random, was a counter offensive we launched. It was in fact pretty mush the same thing the Israelis did in the '73 war.

Stop being a weakling and help us win it back.

edit : although thanks to CCP's bad game mechanics this is impossible to do. But winning the fake war doesn't necessarily make the game fun.

Stop being a weakling and help us win it back.

edit : although thanks to CCP's bad game mechanics this is impossible to do. But winning the fake war doesn't necessarily make the game fun.

Shall I assume afk plexing alts represent settlers on the west bank?

Yes, that works just fine for me.
I gonna Katyusha you Kibbutz..

Things I would balance are NPC's i.e. all NPC's should need to be killed and should web etc and I do I think the t1 pricing is probably too harsh and t5 to good but the general principle of lost your territory you're broke compared to the other guy is sound.

all i hear is a bunch of amarr whining about how bad they are at eve. man up bro, im always around to cheer you up, just come to my plex and give me more kms, im getting sick of fweddit ones

Does it count Minmatar militia that you kill/are killed by?

Also, the Caldari have never been outnumbered, militia stats have always had you with a significant numbers advantage over the gallente, just a lot of that advantage used to be farmers in stealth bombers: Now you have a mechanic to leverage all the farmers you have in your militia.

You do realize that prior to the patches we were something like 15 or more systems in the hole to Gallente? We had lost our home system Enaluri. We had maybe 3 agent systems left in low sec and came very close to losing two of those 3, the week of the patch.

We were in no better shape than Amarr, prior to the week before the patch came out and in all honestly I think Amarr were better off because Caldari couldn't even field a BC gang at the time. We didn't have a rosy out look and pretty much everyone had to evac their stuff to high sec or to some station system that wasn't a likely target.

The thing that made the difference for Caldari is our plexing guys kept plexing and Caldari would get a system flip every once in a while and manage to flip a bunker in the odd hours of the night. Gals would of course just take it back, but we knew we could take systems but just couldn't hold them.

That gave us one opportunity.. The week of the patch we didn't roll over and let Gals steam roll our last few important systems. Instead we went on the offensive and put an all out effort to flip station systems that Gals were living in. We put them on the defense which meant they couldn't roll anymore of our system instead they had to defend.

We failed at capturing any systems in our efforts but we succeeded in stopping them from taking any new systems prior to the patch. After the patch, it started to become apparent that the patch wasn't going to be as bad as we thought and actually might favor the way Caldari has been playing the last year.

Simply put the patch favors the side that spreads out it's forces and attacks all across the map, instead of staying boxed up in one area. This is what Caldari had been forced into doing by the Gal blobs, but ironically it became what has allowed turn the fight in our favor.

Amarr could have done what Caldari has done and in all honestly you still can.. To win the new sov system you have to spread your corps out across the map where they can attack their local systems but more importantly defend those systems that are captured.

You spent 7 hours defensively plexing Siseide yesterday without getting a kill. LOL nerd.

Pathetic and Pessimistic rant

Its pretty straight forward strategy that is why I don't mind posting it here.

The problem is no one wants to do that much pve.

We were just saying out of 100 guys in comms you should've been able to come up with a fleet.

You spent 7 hours defensively plexing Siseide yesterday without getting a kill. LOL nerd.

You've been in FW for four months, how many 40 man Caldari Militia BS gangs have you seen? Heck, how many 40 man BC+Logi gangs have you seen?

The reality of Calmil is that with 100 guys in comms, you're probably talking ten guys who can reship to whatever the FC calls for, another ten guys who can get something more or less appropriate, and eighty guys who have one or two pvp fitted ships of random size, tank type, and range available. On our best days, that means a bunch of drakes and a few guys reshipped to basilisks. That's what having a big difference in skillpoints means, there's some fights we have to pass up.

It'll be interesting to see if that changes over the next couple years. Post patch FW, with its emphasis on small scale combat rather than LogiBlobs, might hold more PvPers interest in the long run. Though on the flip side it's alienating some of our current pilots who prefer organized fleet combat. It's hard for some of us to justify shipping up for fleet "fights" that are mostly waiting and scouting when we could be rolling out solo or in small groups to find action and some LP on the side.

I've seen a few. Especially lately. The Caldari roll them out and prance them around "looking for fights" and when we bring out our own, they're nowhere to be seen. A couple months ago, I would have accepted the "skillpoints" argument. But the Caldari have had a rather large influx of experienced, higher skill point corps who roll out in battleships seemingly just for kicks and giggles and thus that argument isn't nowhere near as valid as it used to be. Though, admittedly, they may be on a different time zone than that fleet we were after... though out of 100 guys in comms, it's just hard for me to believe there couldn't have been some kind of competitive fleet formed.

Honestly, I don't even view the new patch as geared for combat. Other than the new Caldari corps that come out and fight, it's pretty much the same system. The guys who you'd get fights out of in plexes before, you get fights out of... the former mission runners, now plexers (and throw in a sizable portion of new Caldari members in this group as well) will run. And of course, the same goes for all the factions, not just the Caldari. After seeing that post in... whatever thread it was yesterday, I can't remember, I really like the idea of only being able to flip border systems. Though I doubt CCP would implement it (because the system would then make sense).

... The simple fact is in EVE even in null sec the bigger the blobs equals "less" fighting and more ganking happens.

....

Oh give me a break, you guys run from Caldari fleets just as much as Caldari fleets run from yours. The simple fact is in EVE even in null sec the bigger the blobs equals "less" fighting and more ganking happens.

Yesterday I was in that Cal BC gangs we had out with about 25 guys and Gal gang had maybe slightly less but wasn't too miss-matched. (despite gals having another 20+ afk in Nenn) We would warp in on you guys and you would run away..This happened over and over until we just went home.

There was a few patty cake matches where we killed a few ships but mostly it was just stragglers that were late for the warps getting caught and ganked.

http://caldari.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=13704838

That was the BR from ganks happening.. both our kills were random ganks trying to get to your gang and our loss was a logi that didn't keep up with fleet.

The other skirmish was on other side of gate when your guys were more scattered and again it was just a few ganks with no fight.

http://caldari.eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=13704984


Roughly 20+ on each side combat resulted in about 11 kills over a hour period of time playing ring around the rosy warping here then warping there chasing each other all over. This is why large gangs are freaking boring as hell, because they rarely result in a actual fight happening but more just each side ganking a random target here or there.

This is why small gang PVP is 100% better, because people actually scrap it out because there isn't fear of welping a whole fleet.. No one cares is you lose a hand full of BC's or assorted ships because they will be right back out there fighting again. Lose 20 or 30 ships at 1 fight in FW and people get emo.


Also we deal with craploads of Gal "AND" Minmatar farmers in T1 frigs that run from everything.. How many 2 day old Caldari guys you see out farming plexes vs how many 2 day old Minmatar alts?

I know you can't see them in local with little stars, but trust me there is a crap load of them.

Let the Amarr tard war die. When they have all our systems they can run
l4 missions in there stealth bombers 24/7. Fine with me, since CCP is just scratching
there asses anyway. The quicker we give it up the sooner the fix.

CCP does not care about whether or not one side wins. They do not care if its hard to be on the losing side.

I don't think you understand how wrong you are about this strategy. If you give up the war, and refuse to fight for space, and voluntarily allow the Minmatar to win, you have essentially guaranteed yourself that CCP will not give two fucks about rushing to "fix" anything.

CCP does not care about whether or not one side wins. They do not care if its hard to be on the losing side. They care about whether the mechanics *prevent* the losing faction from taking space regardless of their inconveniences. Station lockout and crappy LP rewards aside, the Amarr have been able to take space.

By all means, lay down and let us win! But you will not have proven to CCP that their patch was a bad idea, you will have only proven that you guys don't care enough to win. A militia that refuses to fight is not a "problem" in need of fixing, according to the developers.

Some Amarrians in this thread have asked the naysayers to step up and support them in making a comeback, this is your best bet if you want CCP's attention. Others, like Cearain, have even outlined the tactics necessary to get the first footholds on your climb back to the top, as well as given good advice about saving up LP.

To prove to CCP that there is a real mechanical problem you have to prove them first that you are trying your *hardest* to win, throwing everything you've got at the enemy, and still hitting a glass ceiling. Posts like the one that began this thread directly undermine the process of getting developer support for making things easier for the underdog.

I don't think you understand how wrong you are about this strategy. If you give up the war, and refuse to fight for space, and voluntarily allow the Minmatar to win, you have essentially guaranteed yourself that CCP will not give two fucks about rushing to "fix" anything.

CCP does not care about whether or not one side wins. They do not care if its hard to be on the losing side. They care about whether the mechanics *prevent* the losing faction from taking space regardless of their inconveniences. Station lockout and crappy LP rewards aside, the Amarr have been able to take space.

By all means, lay down and let us win! But you will not have proven to CCP that their patch was a bad idea, you will have only proven that you guys don't care enough to win. A militia that refuses to fight is not a "problem" in need of fixing, according to the developers.

Some Amarrians in this thread have asked the naysayers to step up and support them in making a comeback, this is your best bet if you want CCP's attention. Others, like Cearain, have even outlined the tactics necessary to get the first footholds on your climb back to the top, as well as given good advice about saving up LP.

To prove to CCP that there is a real mechanical problem you have to prove them first that you are trying your *hardest* to win, throwing everything you've got at the enemy, and still hitting a glass ceiling. Posts like the one that began this thread directly undermine the process of getting developer support for making things easier for the underdog.

this proves you dont really know what you are talking about.

I nay say alot its true, but i also try (and always have) very hard to help amarr get back to glory and hopefully put the fun back in, but of course you cannot see that side of things because you are in your coushy winning side (whos gain was established 2 weeks before the mechanic changes remember).

The same reasons why Amarr could not stop minnies from taking all our systems before patch, locking us out of most of fw low sec are the same reasons we cannot win them back now, plus ofc it takes 2 days solid plexing with no interference from minnies (pvp or decontest) to actually take a system. The fact that Amarr have few places to base from as a group, no isk to generate a force is one of the biggest reasons Amarr cannot attract new players to our side - all while minnie side is comfortable, easy to plex easy to make isk, dock everywhere and blob pvp makes them a no brainer. CCP should care about this because it will fast become incursion style pr0 isk farmers and no fun pvp left. somthing that got fw players to play it in the first place before there was any reason to fight.

If you cannot work out the lack of ballence you should not post as a CSM in this thread.

Unless that losing side happens to be big 0.0 alliances and mercenary corps who can't get contracts from poor wardecced indy corps in hisec

You've been in FW for four months, how many 40 man Caldari Militia BS gangs have you seen? Heck, how many 40 man BC+Logi gangs have you seen?

The reality of Calmil is that with 100 guys in comms, you're probably talking ten guys who can reship to whatever the FC calls for, another ten guys who can get something more or less appropriate, and eighty guys who have one or two pvp fitted ships of random size, tank type, and range available. On our best days, that means a bunch of drakes and a few guys reshipped to basilisks. That's what having a big difference in skillpoints means, there's some fights we have to pass up.

It'll be interesting to see if that changes over the next couple years. Post patch FW, with its emphasis on small scale combat rather than LogiBlobs, might hold more PvPers interest in the long run. Though on the flip side it's alienating some of our current pilots who prefer organized fleet combat. It's hard for some of us to justify shipping up for fleet "fights" that are mostly waiting and scouting when we could be rolling out solo or in small groups to find action and some LP on the side.

...You completely misunderstood me - I wasn't saying that the Amarr are being lazy and aren't trying hard, I'm absolutely sure that you are and I hope you continue to do so...

This is why you continually run away from our fleets?

The problem with FW PvP is the problem with PvP everywhere- Risk Aversion, the people that are legitimately there for blowing up ships, will continue to do so. The people more concerned with their ISK/Hour will stay docked up until the real fighters clear a safe path for them (or you know, put alts in the Min. Militia to farm LP while their 'blues' tirelessly plex to push systems). The only problem the Amarr Militia has, are the people in the Amarr Militia.

Hmmm,

Star Fraction kills 334 Fweddit ships by "always running away" shocker ... more news at 11!

And I say don't continue.

As long as the Shakorites get to ride motorcycles in the Tour de France called FW their lives should be made as hard as you can within the narrow confines afforded by CCP reluctance to do any actual work on FW.

- Plex relentlessly, preferably in upgraded system.
- Never flip a system, not a one, they get diddly squat from defence .. every flipped system is more ISK for Pator.
- Aggressively pursue/kill/harass any Shakorites plexing held systems. Should be easy enough considering the number of systems involved .. they should not be allowed the easy LP from offensive plexing.
- Go on SiSi and cook up the bare minimum ship/fit with which to plex everything (minor/medium/major) when NPC eWar is axed and spam that ship/fit on TQ.

Once winter (or more likely next summer) rolls around with the "real" changes, you know the actual balance changes, each and every Amarr member will have millions of LP (triple digits!) ready to cash out when the Iron Heel of the Empire curb-stomps the Shakorites after their motorcycles are removed ..
Head to head, pound for pound Amarr > Matar, proven time and again over the years, take away their ridiculous plexing advantage (or give similar to Amarr whichever CCP thinks will ruin game the most) and they'll be locked away deep in bowels of their hinterland.

In short: Plex and plex only. Once their only major LP income is reduced to the silly solo bombers, they will lose plexing steam as bodies drop once again .. should be timed almost perfectly with plexing conditions being equalized come winter/summer at which time they will be overrun.

Unfortunately most of the '334 Fweddit' kills you have, have very little to do with 'the Star Fraction' and alot to do with the Minmatar Militia, we are however pleased that you enjoy whoring in on kills (apparently whoring is something you just enjoy in any meaning of the word; do those poor hapless men know that you are a man, roleplaying a girl- or was that just left out by default?) I look forward to more of your hilariously false claims in a page or two, when you have saved up enough face to post again.

This is the way we can win based on the actual mechanics of the game. Unfortunately many in amarr militia aren't looking at the actual mechanics of the game. Instead they are looking at old textbooks about world war 1 and deluding themselves into thinking that those strategies will work in this game.

I think hans has a point in that the system shouldn't be scrapped just because one side is fighting in a stupid manner. The no lp for defensive plexing gives amarr the ability to get back in the game. But we are ignoring it and instead giving minmatar plexers huge economic benefits by flipping systems right next to their bases.

BTW I am not saying that engaging in a smart strategy along the lines you outline will be enough. The system is still pretty lopsided and it may be that even with best tactics it will just be too lopsided.

But I do agree with hans that until we amarrians actually start fighting smart (based on the actual mechanics in the game not some imagined world war 1 strategy that simply doesn't apply) ccp shouldn't just start changing things willy nilly. We need to adjust our strategies to the mechanics ccp gives. We shouldn't be telling CCP "hey we want to win with this strategy make it so we can."

No doubt I am making myself unpopular with my militia by saying this.

Obligatory CERBY is recruiting post. Come fight for the state. We accept all amarrian refugees willing to fly cormorants and drakes

LOL are you offering them better WZ control levels? They're looking to make some iskies (and I don't blame them).

http://eve-kill.net/?a=kill_related&kll_id=13715160

40 man fleets aren't that unusual at all.

LOL are you offering them better WZ control levels? They're looking to make some iskies (and I don't blame them).

LOL are you offering them better WZ control levels? They're looking to make some iskies (and I don't blame them).

That's a pretty good point: The difference in reward levels doesn't increase conflict, if anything it seems to decrease conflict as anyone (alts of enemies included) can just join the winning side and join in the cashing out.

Giving rewards definitely helps conflict, because it gives people a reason to be in plexes. And you can earn ISK in plexes in a pvp ship instead of pveing your way through missions.

Consequences to your main account not being able to dock is also a driver for conflict.

But the more I've see of this tiered reward crap (and hey, I'm in the Minmatar Militia, I am raking in the LP on my main), the more I think it's a very bad idea. CCP should go back to the same reward level for all militias, or at the very least, not have a negative penalty so the losing side can still compete with high sec mission runners.

Pretty much. We sit at tier 2 usually, but seeing as how gallente have 8 systems currently vulnerable (probably a few more going vuln soon) i'm sure we'll be hitting tier 3 again without a hitch. It's not like the gallente are trying to get their tiers up as most of them have already joined the minmatar militia and just farm caldari plexes and cash in on those tier 4/5 LP prices. So yeah, if you amarr are isk starved, CERBY (and the caldari militia as a whole) is recruiting.

Well this is true to an extent. But I know I have allot of amarr lp built up that I would love to cash out at tier 5. Hence I am hoping my militia gets it in gear and starts moving toward that goal. The tier system is very much a driver from my perspective.

If you cannot work out the lack of ballence you should not post as a CSM in this thread.

Why would I want to balance a fight? That's never really been the goal in EVE.......

That makes sense. And as we've discovered, you only need the high tier level for a brief window to capitalize on achieving that goal, as long as you're prepared beforehand. You don't have to be able to *maintain* a tier level to make achieving it profitable and worth putting effort towards. And when you do hit it (and I'm sure you will eventually) your items will be higher priced on the markets as well, making that cashout more lucrative than anything the minnies have been able to pull in terms is isk / LP.

Why do CCP balance ships then???

If Amarr were losing due to lack of numbers etc..., we wouldn't be complaining.

We are complaining because the current mechanics are making it hard for us to compete due to the mechanics depending on criteria which affects different people differently. Put simply, we require more numbers/better ships/higher SP to do something that a char in a frig can do in less than a week in the minmitar militia.

Let me give you a non FW example revolving around incursions (yes it is rediculous, but just want to show what we are dealing with)

e.g. A Legion fleet used to warp in after a pirate BS fleets in NCO incursion mission (vanguards) before the nerf and win the site.
Alternatively, a 6 man gang would get pwned by a 10 or 11 man due to the extra DPS meaning they won the site.
This is an example of what Soundwave said - balance should not be inherrent so as to drive conflict.

Now assume that Caldari characters took 25% extra damage and did 25% less just because their toon is Caldari. The other 3 races have an advantage over all Caldari. Yes the Caldari can partake in incursions, but it is hardly fair is it and is not what Soundwave was referring to.

People should stop posting out of context quotes and try and understand the issue the Amarr are objecting to!!!

I'm hoping the poster who quoted Soundwave was doing it to illustrate the absurdity of that line of thinking - because lets face it, that quote has been comprehensively debunked and hurled to the rubbish tips of history already this week. The game needs competitive balance - competitive balance doesn't neccessarily lead to "fairness" because some people just happen to be better competitors than others. Clearly balancing the combat and conflict systems so they are competitive have always been a design goal in Eve Online - see ship balancing and various changes every aspect of sov and FW warfare.

Define a shortwhile? A few hours. A day?

I can go to bed and see pretty much all upgrades that were put in place gone when I log back in the next day. With the number of systems you hold vs us, it means we fill up our ihubs and you guys empty it out and bump us back down in no time. We do it to a few of your systems and worst case, you drop from T4 to T3.
And last night, it seems the minnies "fixed" that by further upgrading some systems to push up into the middle of T4 instead of sitting on the edge of T4/T3

The game needs competitive balance - competitive balance doesn't neccessarily lead to "fairness" because some people just happen to be better competitors than others. Clearly balancing the combat and conflict systems so they are competitive have always been a design goal in Eve Online - see ship balancing and various changes every aspect of sov and FW warfare.

Har

Unless you wanted to cash out at tier 2 and you were all set and ready to do it immediately, it was a bad idea to invest lp in those systems.

Good point. In this case, would you say the issues the Amarr are facing is the result of competitive imbalance, or simply not making the most of a set of rules that affect everyone the same?

Good point. In this case, would you say the issues the Amarr are facing is the result of competitive imbalance, or simply not making the most of a set of rules that affect everyone the same?

...On the other hand, I think some Amarr players let themselves get convinced that CCP was going to reset the warzone with Inferno and it let them take the foot off the gas when they should have been flying their hearts out....

+ Some of the major Amarrian FW corporations are using pretty terrible strategic tactics even to this day. Fweddit (for example) could be achieving an awful lot more if weren't doing their risk averse hisec basing thing.

I'm glad you are so concerned about what we are doing- I imagine we have a much greater view and appreciation for our corp mates- as we have succeeded in doing something you guys have all failed at, in every Militia: and that is bringing new players into Faction Warfare or even Low Sec to begin with. Last time I looked, we had 34 alts in Fweddit and 433 people playing on their mains. Do they have more skillpoints than everyone else in the militia? Nope.

What they do have; is heart, and in this situation that is more than enough.

If you think this is about Killboard Stats Jade; you have not a single clue about the culture of my corp, or what we are trying to accomplish. Just like all your other observations you are simply incapable of realizing that not everyone wants to play the way you do; and running a 500 man corporation is probably more involved and a much large undertaking than having 4-5 corp mates show up in mixed militia fleets looking for fights.

You seem to have posted some kind of a form letter that had precisely nothing to do with what I said.

That was exactly what I was pointing out. LP should be saved until you own enough systems to upgrade them to the tier level required to cash out at the rate you want to cash out. The tier 5 spike only lasted a few hours. But the pilots that prepared ahead of time, saving their LP and stocking up an LP store station with the items they wanted to upgrade into Faction gear, were able to make the most of the opportunity.

Blindly upgrading a system without coordinating that upgrade with the rest of your militia is literally a waste of money. It will get taken away just as fast as you put it in. So work with your faction, work to take systems, when you're all ready pick a day and dump the LP into the upgrades as part of a cooperative effort. Hit the tier level you're aiming for, than cash out. This the way to maximize your profits from your LP, regardless of which faction you belong to.

Good point. In this case, would you say the issues the Amarr are facing is the result of competitive imbalance, or simply not making the most of a set of rules that affect everyone the same?

+ Some of the major Amarrian FW corporations are using pretty terrible strategic tactics even to this day. Fweddit (for example) could be achieving an awful lot more if weren't doing their risk averse hisec basing thing.

I haven't converted any LP yet for this very reason. My point being that it is NOT practical for me to do so at the current time whilst the minmitar can pretty much do it on a whim!!!

It appears someone from goons upgraded amarr to tier 2. Why did they bother blowing stuff up for amarr lp at all - let alone enough to upgrade our tier?

I am surprised you even have to ask that after all the posting we have been doing. The rules DO NOT EFFECT everyone the same since the Amarr cannot speed tank major plexes in frigs with 1 week old chars... How many more times do we need to argue this case?
We aren't asking for it to be made EASIER for us, just that everyone else has the SAME difficulty that we do!!!

All this talk about orbiting buttons and cashing out at tier2 (equal to double pre-'nerf Amarr' expansion rates I believe) is ridiculous to say the least when any plexing done by a gang can be countered/reversed by a single enemy frigate that is enjoying a near perpetual 75% discount in his store thanks to the mechanics.

I am surprised you even have to ask that after all the posting we have been doing. The rules DO NOT EFFECT everyone the same since the Amarr cannot speed tank major plexes in frigs with 1 week old chars... How many more times do we need to argue this case?
We aren't asking for it to be made EASIER for us, just that everyone else has the SAME difficulty that we do!!!

The issue has been brought to the attention of CCP right from the first week of FW way back when it was obvious that on one side a t1 frigate can run plex's but the other side needed to use more resources to run them, basically saying that Amarr needed twice the numbers to do the same amount of plexing, not a lot of balance there ?

Lets not kid anyone here, CCP knew about this inbalance from day 1 and have not had any interest in putting it right, now it seems a few are taking an interest in it but they should of fixed this issue before moving ahead with any other changes, I wouldn't go as far as a rollback but there are scores of gunless frigates taking all size plex's and bombers running missions where we can't do either, risk/reward has been completely forgotten about in this case as there is no risk for them as they just run.

But also enough with the negative vibes, Amarr militia is far from finished plus we got Fweedit on board which I am loving, good guys on the whole who are learning very fast, we just need to be allowed to fight with some sort of balanced playing field.

Quoted for truth and posterity.

Not empty quoting, but +1.

Now that it appears the plexing bug is being sewn up as we speak (they've finally duplicated it after three years. Progress!) I think this needs to be the front-and-center issue to address ASAP. It's what I've been talking to CCP about, its what all of you are talking about, I think its safe to say that another expansion without this issue addressed would be a colossal disservice to the community. Consider it my personal top priority.

Hans - I am VERY pleased to see this posted. The only things that would make me happier are
1) CCP saying they will look into this and that it IS an issue
2) Them actually then doing something about it

1. They have indirectly by asking specifically for suggestions to solve the NPC conundrum (F&I thread).

2. Like all automotive engineers will tell you then it paramount to have a good strong engine mounted in the chassis before even inventing a wheel for said engine to rotate .. no wai ...
They are doing the right things just in a completely illogical order, like inventing the ejection seat before the parachute or the above example

Now that it appears the plexing bug is being sewn up as we speak (they've finally duplicated it after three years. Progress!).

Pity they didnt actually ask me. I would have saved them 2 years 364 days, 23 hours and 50 minutes of valuable time...

Just saying.

Ha! Thanks to game mechanics??? We enjoy the 75% discount because of the hard work we put into plexing before the patch. Not because of game mechanics. You sound so pathetic when you say stuff like this. You honestly think it is the game mechanics fault for why you guys lost so many systems before the patch? ....You are the problem with the old guard Amarr.

While the Amarr chose to wait to the to the last minute, The Minmatar chose to plex non-stop for a solid 2 months. Both sides knew what the patch was bringing and yet you guys chose the wrong stratagy and now blame it on the mechanics. Pathetic.

It has been almost a month since the patch came out and today the amarr have more systems than they did on patch day. You are slowly crawling back despite what you call "hideously imbalanced" game mechanics. You gain a few systems and you lose a few systems but over the time span of a month you have a net gain of systems.

I agree that the NPC's need a bit more balancing. I agree that bugs need to be fixed. But these are not the excuses you are looking for to explain your tier 1 position. Honestly they are very minor problems and when they are fixed what will be your excuse then?

Now that they are done I expect the minmatar will fold like an Albanian suit, assuming the Amarr can at long last, now find their goolies.

As you type this, Minnies are back up to T4 and have been for a few hours now.