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Poetic Stanziel Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 898	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:01:00 - [1] - Quote from http://poeticstanziel.blogspot.ca/2012/06/fixing-technetium.html All the goodwill I garnered with yesterday's post, I will now fritter away with this post. I will talk about an area of the game I'm not involved with, will not likely be involved with for some time. But it is an area of the game I enjoy spectating. Nullsec sovereignty. (tl;dr: Technetium is a depleting resource. It depletes from a region, it begins to accumulate into another region.) I sit here in Canada, all safe and in comfort, but I still take a keen interest in what goes on well outside my borders. The uprisings in Libya. The war in Afghanistan. The near civil war in Syria. The economic crisis in Greece. Or, when he was alive, Kim Jong Il looking at things. It's really no different with EVE Online. I enjoy reading the political situations, the battle reports, the posturing of the big alliances in nullsec. For most of the last year, the action has been squarely in the northwest, with Goonswarm taking first Branch, and then Tenal. The action was multiplied when the Russians finally decided to have a disagreement, Shadow of xXDeathXx versus Solar Fleet, and finally with Red Alliance vacating their long held space and moving to Delve with nary an argument from the folks who were living there at the time of the move. The Russian thing is over. Russians are pretty happy to keep the status quo unless you give grave insult to boiled cabbage. Nulli Secunda doesn't have the strength to but tickle Red Alliance, and Red Alliance seems content with the tickle fight. And then OTEC happened. The northwest is now all about the brohugs. Nullsec seems to have entered a stagnant phase. Goonswarm and the other technetium holding alliances are content to just play buddies and reap financial reward. I'm not saying that's wrong (I might do the same were I in The Mittani's shoes), but from a spectator perspective, it's boring. It's Chinese nullsec. Everyone bitches about Goonswarm and friends holding most of the technetium supply, yet nobody seems interested in trying to take a piece of the pie for themselves. From their perspectives, who can blame them, yet from a spectator perspective, damned boring. So, how to drive conflict? The obvious answer is to entice alliances to chase ISK. Technetium is the perfect carrot. There's nothing wrong with having one resource be more valuable than any other. The game doesn't require balance in that respect. But the game should use that resource to entice players into conflict, especially players who get too comfortable having it. The idea is to make technetium a finite resource, rotating technetium throughout New Eden over time. You take three adjacent regions, and give them 100% of the technetium in New Eden. Working clockwise, choose another three adjacent regions. As technetium is depleted from the first three regions, it begins to accumulate in the next three regions. As technetium is mined and depleted in those next three regions, it begins appearing in another three regions, in a clockwise direction around the map. I refer to this as chasing the ISK. Those that greatly desire to control technetium, will be enticed to chase it. The have-nots, as they get it, will be encouraged to defend it. The vast amounts of ISK that can be garnered from technetium encourage people to go to war over it. It is no longer a resource they sit on. So, for example. Let's say CCP implemented this idea. The first three regions that will hold the entirety of New Eden's technetium supply will be Fade, Pure Blind and Deklein. As the moons in those regions are mined out, technetium will begin accumulating on moons in Branch, Tenal and Tribute. As the moons in those regions are depleted, technetium will begin collecting on moons in the Vale of the Silent, Geminate and Cobalt Edge regions.So on and so forth, until eventually technetium again returns to Fade, Pure Blink and Deklein. You can think of technetium as a comet. A core central location with the greatest concentration of technetium, and the trailing tail with ever decreasing concentrations towards its end. This comet orbits the outer regions on New Eden on an 18 or so month cycle (given average moon mining tendencies.) It's hard to predict what the players would do with such a system, how they'd attempt to game it, but I don't foresee any sort of equilibrium evolving. If technetium isn't mined, it doesn't accumulate elsewhere. If it isn't mined, it doesn't enter the market. If it doesn't enter the market, the cost of goods requiring technetium sky rocket, which should further entice groups into war. The idea strikes me as relatively sound, but what problems do you all foresee? How do you predict this system playing out in the reality of the game? The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1033	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:03:00 - [2] - Quote What about the ring mining they are working on? Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Poetic Stanziel Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 900	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:07:00 - [3] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: What about the ring mining they are working on? Are they working on that? Or just an idea they tossed out there? Ring mining is just two words. We have no idea what it will mean, what it will involve, how it will affect the game. The rumour is that the Winter Expansion will deal with industry, so perhaps there are some half decent ideas in the pipe, and hopefully with an eye to driving conflict. The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks
Mrr Woodcock Republic Military School Minmatar Republic 10	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:08:00 - [4] - Quote Very nice read.
Torneach Viziam Amarr Empire 262	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:15:00 - [5] - Quote Well then. Now that you've stopped ranting about E-UNI, your blog is actually worth reading. Nice idea.
Snow Axe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 432	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:17:00 - [6] - Quote If it changes in a predictable fashion, I don't think it'd accomplish anything other than encouraging already large powerblocs to simply grow larger, either by taking even more space they don't necessarily need or by increasing their blue list that much more to extend their Tech "window" that much longer. I really don't see anyone truly "chasing" after the tech, as it'd just be far too much of a pain in the ass to even find it, given how tedious and awful moon scanning is currently (and that's to say nothing of the hassle of constantly unanchoring and moving towers).
Frederick Sanger GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 133	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:18:00 - [7] - Quote I'm hoping that the ring mining is a good solution since it has an intriguing name.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 1187	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:18:00 - [8] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: It's really no different with EVE Online. I enjoy reading the political situations, the battle reports, the posturing of the big alliances in nullsec. For most of the last year, the action has been squarely in the northwestl. haha what?
Simi Kusoni HelloKittyFanclub 1234	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:18:00 - [9] - Quote Give me three tech moons. There, fixed. "I don't troll, I just give overly blunt responses that annoy people who are wrong but don't want to admit it. It's not my fault that people have sensitive feelings"-á-á-MXZF
Shepard Wong Ogeko GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 46	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:26:00 - [10] - Quote Migrating Tech will just lead to alliances "waiting their turn". Why go fight for it, when you know that it will get mined out in a few months and eventually end up in your back yard. No one will chase it because the logistics needed to find and mine all that tech and get it to market is not something any one wants to do from scratch every 3 months. Ultimately, everyone will be part of OTEC, and everyone will get a chance to stock up on cap ships or whatever supplies before passing its time to pass it to the left. With in a year or so, they know they'll get another chance to be filthy rich with tech again. It would be the golden age of the nullsec bropact technetium bong circle.
Poetic Stanziel Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 900	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:28:00 - [11] - Quote Snow Axe wrote: I really don't see anyone truly "chasing" after the tech, as it'd just be far too much of a pain in the ass to even find it, given how tedious and awful moon scanning is currently (and that's to say nothing of the hassle of constantly unanchoring and moving towers). I guess the tediousness of moon mining would need to be "fixed". The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks
Trollin 86	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:31:00 - [12] - Quote put tech in asteroid forms in belts and be done with moons, lets make everyone get their isk in barge and blow all the barge up amirite? You are your own worst enemy.
RAP ACTION HERO 87	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:31:00 - [13] - Quote Your articles are improving, see what happens when you stop obsessing about eve uni.
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 1187	Posted - 2012.06.15 03:39:00 - [14] - Quote Anyways looking aside that you thought that the coalition steamrolling of a 1k member alliance in december consisted the bulk of last year's activity in 0.0 (lol), this solution to tech is pretty convoluted when the real solution is just change the moon goo bottleneck to something not so completely exclusive to a handful of regions.
Poetic Stanziel Autocannons Anonymous Late Night Alliance 900	Posted - 2012.06.15 04:29:00 - [15] - Quote Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: This solution to tech is pretty convoluted when the real solution is just change the moon goo bottleneck to something not so completely exclusive to a handful of regions. You're trying to solve a market problem. I don't care about OTEC and the fact that they are driving up Tech prices. I'm trying to increase sov level conflict in nullsec. It's perfectly fine with me if a group wants to try to corner markets. More power to them. I'm not trying to fix technetium because of OTEC's effect on the market, I'm trying to fix technetium because of OTEC's effect on conflict in sov nullsec. The STAIN Travel Bookmark Collection - 451 Bookmarks
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 1187	Posted - 2012.06.15 04:34:00 - [16] - Quote What, that the north is all blued up and gay? It was like that before tech and it'll be like that if tech is removed altogether. Plenty of sov conflict where I live, don't fix what isn't broken hth
m3rb3aSt Advanced Component Research Enterprise Goonswarm Federation 1	Posted - 2012.06.15 04:35:00 - [17] - Quote but then whatever alliance controls the tech will just migrate with it. it doesn't really solve anything because the tech holders will still be able to hold everything. also there is plenty of conflict in 0.0
Gilbaron Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke 264	Posted - 2012.06.15 04:38:00 - [18] - Quote moving technetium in circles is the most stupid idea one can think about a one-time moon redistribution and/or the introduction of more alchemy is the key
Morganta Peripheral Madness The Midget Mafia 1453	Posted - 2012.06.15 04:40:00 - [19] - Quote Alavaria Fera wrote: What about the ring mining they are working on? Ring mining......sounds a little swishy to me The American public's reaction to the change was poor and the new cola was a major marketing failure. The subsequent reintroduction of Coke's original formula, re-branded as "Coca-Cola Classic", resulted in a significant gain in sales, leading to speculation that the introduction of the New Coke formula was just a marketing ploy
Umega Solis Mensa 114	Posted - 2012.06.15 04:50:00 - [20] - Quote I like hamburgers. Sometimes I want my hamburgers prepared a certain way, as a lot of places will cook and dress them up differently. So I'll go to the different places for what I want, I do not sit at home and get angry that the nearest places doesn't prepare them how I want. I have a choice, sit at home and do nothing about my hamburger craving.. Or go to the place for the hamburger I want. Thank god I have the choice to either sit around and be angry, or actually get off my ass and go get what I want. People should have a choice, as it motivates us a species to get things accomplished. Take that away.. life gets boring.
Raiz Nhell DEEP CORPS 135	Posted - 2012.06.15 04:59:00 - [21] - Quote Ring mining... I thought I'd try and look up a bit on it.... If you are going to look it up, don't make spelling mistakes and hit "I'm Feeling Lucky".... its not pretty and its not natural :) There is no such thing as a fair fight... If your fighting fair you have automatically put yourself at a disadvantage.
Luis Graca 49	Posted - 2012.06.15 05:07:00 - [22] - Quote To the people that want moon goo to rotate moons None of you still told me how will then alliances know here to strike since noone know here they are and to protect then aliances will simple anchor in all moon to make it even hard to find then? Basically it will kinda like before dominion
Sturmwolke 234	Posted - 2012.06.15 05:49:00 - [23] - Quote Poetic Stanziel wrote: The idea strikes me as relatively sound, but what problems do you all foresee? How do you predict this system playing out in the reality of the game? It's rather conventional, if unimaginative. From an industrialist perspective, picking up stakes and putting down stakes for moon mining is extra work that they can do without. It gets tedious after the umpteenth time - not to mention the behind the scenes logistics. There will also be a need to perform regular moon scans - who's going to get saddled with that? Ultimately, the whole idea of a dynamic (and even static) moon resource needs to be scrapped and design be modified to player centric resource building. In short, you build upgrades and such to improve yields. The moon yields themselves should be re-balanced to a commodity level similar to PI, so there will be no single bottleneck that drives prices up for one item. Now some people might say there's no conflict driver if you remove the T2 moon goo off the table. Is that that completely true? Regions/constellations themselves can be coloured with various "space bonuses" that affects everything you do in it. (Where have you seen this? wormholes) This would differentiate the best regions and the worst regions on a scale. The gist of it, move the conflict drivers into something that easily more changeable/controllable (from a game designer standpoint), de-coupling it from an item to an area effect that requires a more holistic player investments (i.e. not just setting up a POS and mine away).
Alavaria Fera GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1036	Posted - 2012.06.15 05:51:00 - [24] - Quote Sturmwolke wrote: Now some people might say there's no conflict driver if you remove the T2 moon goo off the table. Is that that completely true? The amount of T2 moongoo conflict is... yeah, I don't think you have to worry about people arguing you on that point. Those who cannot adapt become victims of Evolugalbugaslugakjlwsdhvbzxd
Marlona Sky Massive PVPness Psychotic Tendencies. 1171	Posted - 2012.06.15 06:07:00 - [25] - Quote Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: Migrating Tech will just lead to alliances "waiting their turn". Why go fight for it, when you know that it will get mined out in a few months and eventually end up in your back yard. No one will chase it because the logistics needed to find and mine all that tech and get it to market is not something any one wants to do from scratch every 3 months. Ultimately, everyone will be part of OTEC, and everyone will get a chance to stock up on cap ships or whatever supplies before passing its time to pass it to the left. With in a year or so, they know they'll get another chance to be filthy rich with tech again. It would be the golden age of the nullsec bropact technetium bong circle. ^^ This above statement is a total complete lie. The moment Tech (or any other high end moon) is discovered, it will drive conflict. No one will just sit by twiddling their thumbs while a neighboring enemy gets rich. That said you will need to nerf power projection (which needs to be nerfed insanely hard anyways) in order to keep the super power blocks from just trans-versing the galaxy in fifteen minutes to sit their fat ass on the latest high end moon that pops up. Sure there will be other tweaks that need to be made, but to say no one will engage and just wait their turn is simply asinine. Remove local, structure mails and revamp the directional scanner!
Feligast GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 1231	Posted - 2012.06.15 06:35:00 - [26] - Quote Marlona Sky wrote: Shepard Wong Ogeko wrote: Migrating Tech will just lead to alliances "waiting their turn". Why go fight for it, when you know that it will get mined out in a few months and eventually end up in your back yard. No one will chase it because the logistics needed to find and mine all that tech and get it to market is not something any one wants to do from scratch every 3 months. Ultimately, everyone will be part of OTEC, and everyone will get a chance to stock up on cap ships or whatever supplies before passing its time to pass it to the left. With in a year or so, they know they'll get another chance to be filthy rich with tech again. It would be the golden age of the nullsec bropact technetium bong circle. ^^ This above statement is a total complete lie. The moment Tech (or any other high end moon) is discovered, it will drive conflict. No one will just sit by twiddling their thumbs while a neighboring enemy gets rich. That said you will need to nerf power projection (which needs to be nerfed insanely hard anyways) in order to keep the super power blocks from just trans-versing the galaxy in fifteen minutes to sit their fat ass on the latest high end moon that pops up. Sure there will be other tweaks that need to be made, but to say no one will engage and just wait their turn is simply asinine. Wow, you must know everything about moongoo. Where do you guys hold sov again? Oh right. You have zero idea what you're talking about. Got it.
Ziranda Hakuli Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens 79	Posted - 2012.06.15 06:47:00 - [27] - Quote Any change to moon mining the Null bear GOONs and their pets will eventually whine like little babies saying it is too hard for them blah blah blah blah. But do not worry someone high up will go....never mind cannot really say that without getting in trouble. Once the ring mining comes out we will hear the 0.0 tears hitting the floor as a flood comes crashing through the forums anyone got a few spare freighters?
Nicolo da'Vicenza Divine Power. Cascade Imminent 1187	Posted - 2012.06.15 06:48:00 - [28] - Quote hey guys, i was just moon probing in Omist for fun and get this S2N citizens had a tech moon spawn last week! WRITING THE DEPLOYMENT CALL NOW
Snow Axe GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation 433	Posted - 2012.06.15 06:48:00 - [29] - Quote Marlona Sky wrote: ^^ This above statement is a total complete lie. The moment Tech (or any other high end moon) is discovered, it will drive conflict. No one will just sit by twiddling their thumbs while a neighboring enemy gets rich. That said you will need to nerf power projection (which needs to be nerfed insanely hard anyways) in order to keep the super power blocks from just trans-versing the galaxy in fifteen minutes to sit their fat ass on the latest high end moon that pops up. Sure there will be other tweaks that need to be made, but to say no one will engage and just wait their turn is simply asinine. "People will travel farther and fight more if it's harder to travel because ________" Purestrain publord, right ther.
Wolodymyr Breaking Ambitions Solid Foundation 165	Posted - 2012.06.15 06:48:00 - [30] - Quote The reason tech prices are out of control is because only a handful of people unload the moon mining POSes. Also if you live in a system with a tech moon in it the actual moon might be owned by someone else. For example there are a few tech moons in lowsec, but the native pirates are NEVER going to be able to take the things down, because they'll never win the second fight when the POS comes out or reinfoce. But with ring mining the moon goo gets split up among a bunch of miners (so price fixing will be tougher). And you actually have to live in the space to mine the rings. So people in lowsec might actually see some technetium. Nicolo da'Vicenza wrote: hey guys, i was just moon probing in Omist for fun and get this S2N citizens had a tech moon spawn last week! WRITING THE DEPLOYMENT CALL NOW Yeah I am a little worried that our quiet little lowsec drug lab gets a tech spawn and then someone larger than us finds out about it and I have to deal with 1000 alpha maelstroms trying to blow up my blue pills. I honestly thought this was a good idea https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1417544

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