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Jakiin	Posted - 2009.11.19 04:45:00 - [1] It has been, at the time of writing, nearly ten days since Bloodsoaked Goddess accused No.Mercy of some very bad things. At first I assumed it was just more mudslinging from the same woman who equated a group of CVA vessels taking out a known enemy vessel in lowsec without a war declaration pirating, and I responded as such. However then some new information came into play: The corporations she claimed had been attacked were purportedly neutral. At this point all we had was the word of someone who was a known turd-disturber. Most were pretty sure this was more propaganda which could be dismissed off hand. But then The *** Hit The Fan in the form of captured screen shots from the No.Mercy private Galnet forums. These pictures didn't prove much except that No.Mercy had been raiding corporations of some sort for cash, which made sense for a combat operation. Regardless, it seemed wise for someone to investigate this and confirm whether No.Mercy were increasing their budget while destabilizing the TLF industrial base, or whether the targets were actually not involved in the war. This is where PIE comes in, but not the failure. PIE Inc. had traditionally been seen as the moral compass of the Crusaders. It's difficult to argue that any one corporation had done as much for the Empire since they began the Deliverance project, and they had generally been regarded by even their enemies as an honourable bunch. So if there was any group which would be trusted with No.Mercy operational data and still be trusted by everyone else as a relatively unbiased source, it was PIE. The failure is coming up. The failure is not that they did not launch any investigation. In fact, they may have launched a very thorough investigation. They may have found that No.Mercy were a great bunch of guys, they may have found that No.Mercy have indeed been pirating, and they may have decided to keep investigating to ensure they didn't miss anything. What's the common denominator of these possibilities? May have. This is where the failure appears. We have no idea what PIE has done, if anything. We know that at least one pilot has claimed to have proof of No.Mercy attacking the organizations, and we know that as any reasonable group PIE demanded that the conversation was conducted in private. We also know that since then no one from PIE Inc, No.Mercy, or indeed anyone of any authority on the situation has said a peep. To the cynics, the reason for this is obvious: Garst Tyrell has been credited with the recent campaign successes. Before the accusations, he was the primary candidate for the PIE Amarrian Loyalist of the Year award (And is still quite in the running). He is a figure of great importance to the loyalist capsuleers, never mind his combat successes. If he were found to be pirating, it would be devastating to the collective mentality of the 24th. How could they claim to work for God when the man they were taking commands from was a pirate? They couldn't, and the only recourse would be for the 24th to disown Mr. Tyrell. No investigations could be made public, lest the truth be damning. Practicality first, correct? Originally by:** Merdaneth, PIE Inc Commander If your ideals don't start at home, they are not ideals. Ideals are not overruled by matters of practicality. What are your ideals worth if they can and will be overruled by practicality on a regular basis even in your own home? Ideals are the things you cling to even when its not practical. I can only pray that the Lord will help PIE do the right thing, and bring the truth to light. Whether that truth be good or ill. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jakiin Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer'
Kazuma Ry Amarr Ordo Peregrinus	Posted - 2009.11.19 05:51:00 - [2] While I see the direction you are going. One thing should be remembered. No.Mercy and PIE inc, are both Pop pilot run corporations. While I agree PIE inc are at the heart the moral compass of the militia, It ultimitaly falls upon the 24th Imperial Crusade to decide if any Corporation flying under it's banner is guilty of crimes against the Empire. Whether or not No.Mercy and PIE inc had closed door conversations, it isn't our right to know what was said. If said conversations happened, and when Both sides decided that it is appropriate to let us know, they will then make an official annoucement. Until then, all we can do is support the Empire, and support the 24th Imperial Crusade and all Corporations that fly under it's banner. Amarr Victor
Katyayani Koriau Amarr Holy Flying Death Nuns	Posted - 2009.11.19 06:08:00 - [3] You muste realise Khanid slavekind that Garst Tyrell and No.Mercy are great men better than PIE and better than you. PIE corp was great in past but they light is small now while Garst light is bright and burning heretics while you questiioned. These "industry corps" were traitors and s***unwitting of lifes in HOLY AMARR. Master GARST took their possessions to war effort from ius primae noctis* as his RIGHT! PIE say nothing because they know to kneel and beg helps when needed from Master GARST. No bitings the hand that feeds us So silences now but worships instead. DON'T ASK ABOUT "PIRACY" these is no PIRacy from AMARR to SLAVE. MASTER TAKE SLAVE GIVE. Cleared now?
Koronakesh Amarr Deus Imperiosus Acies	Posted - 2009.11.19 06:44:00 - [4] Originally by: Katyayani Koriau You muste realise Khanid slavekind that Garst Tyrell and No.Mercy are great men better than PIE and better than you. PIE corp was great in past but they light is small now while Garst light is bright and burning heretics while you questiioned. These "industry corps" were traitors and s***unwitting of lifes in HOLY AMARR. Master GARST took their possessions to war effort from ius primae noctis* as his RIGHT! PIE say nothing because they know to kneel and beg helps when needed from Master GARST. No bitings the hand that feeds us So silences now but worships instead. DON'T ASK ABOUT "PIRACY" these is no PIRacy from AMARR to SLAVE. MASTER TAKE SLAVE GIVE. Cleared now? Here's a thought, which in and of itself seems to be a foreign concept to you. Do the ****ing cluster a favor and shut the hell up.
Aria Jenneth Caldari Ghost Festival Naraka.	Posted - 2009.11.19 06:48:00 - [5] Originally by: Katyayani Koriau So silences now but worships instead. DON'T ASK ABOUT "PIRACY" these is no PIRacy from AMARR to SLAVE. MASTER TAKE SLAVE GIVE. Cleared now? Straight over the top, pilot; you seem likely to be either a less-than-deft "wit" or a saboteur. Which side of the war are you on, again?
Morwen Lagann Ghost Festival Naraka.	Posted - 2009.11.19 06:49:00 - [6] Originally by: Koronakesh Originally by: Katyayani Koriau :words: Here's a thought, which in and of itself seems to be a foreign concept to you. Do the ****ing cluster a favor and shut the hell up. ... this is one of those rare occasions where I have to agree with Koronakesh. Mr. Jakiin has brought up a very valid point of discussion and you are doing neither side of the discussion a favor by speaking. Please refrain from doing so again until you have actually applied a few braincells to the task.
Gaven Lok'ri Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.19 06:57:00 - [7] You know, I find it really flattering that PIE gets blamed for accusations against No.Mercy that they are pirates and that people seem to think it is our job to spend time worrying about the other militia corps rather than fight the war. We do not support piracy of any sort, but neither do we have a policy of making it our business to publicly examine other militia corps' activities for the entertainment of the public. If we did launch an investigation on a topic such as this, then I can assure you that it would not appear in this cesspool. Finally, if PIE launched an investigation every time someone with as much credibility as Blood Soaked Goddess made an accusation, then we would not be fighting the war, but rather spending all of our time investigating people who are not our enemies and ignoring Shakor and his forces. So thank you for the attention; now go away and quit making a public spectacle of yourself. Deus Vult! PIE Website Public Channel: 'PIE Public'
Garst Tyrell Amarr No.Mercy	Posted - 2009.11.19 06:58:00 - [8] (OP: alt post best post) "I long for death, not because I seek peace, but because I seek the war eternal"
Katyayani Koriau Amarr Holy Flying Death Nuns	Posted - 2009.11.19 08:23:00 - [9] Originally by: Garst Tyrell Perception is reality. If they want to call me a pirate, then I guess im a 'pirate'. A week ago I was the 'Hero of Kamela'! Probably Loyalist of the year! Laurel wreathes and praise. Weak men called stronger men Pirate Master Garst. But you be PIRATE I BE AMARR PIRATE to! I laugh at stupid petty race slander here.
Havohej Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.11.19 08:35:00 - [10] Originally by: Aria Jenneth Originally by: Katyayani Koriau So silences now but worships instead. DON'T ASK ABOUT "PIRACY" these is no PIRacy from AMARR to SLAVE. MASTER TAKE SLAVE GIVE. Cleared now? Straight over the top, pilot; you seem likely to be either a less-than-deft "wit" or a saboteur. Which side of the war are you on, again? Oh, leave her alone, Aria, it's refreshing to see an honest Amarrian post for once. Du'uma Fiisi is Recruiting
ChipMo Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.11.19 16:51:00 - [11] Edited by: ChipMo on 19/11/2009 16:56:38 A collective sweeping under the rug. It's pretty obvious what happened, I almost belived Rodge when he claimed to be investigating & taking appropriate actions... *ChipMo laughs ...I guess if nothing else this episode is another example of how the Amarrian peoples faith is being manipulated and abused by those in power. To those Amarrian pilots who can see this pharse for what it is I tell you! - Cast off you chains to the empire, disown your dishonor & take up arms for the freedom of all mankind & space!
Havohej Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.11.19 17:14:00 - [12] Originally by: ChipMo Edited by: ChipMo on 19/11/2009 16:57:23 To those Amarrian pilots who can see this pharse for what it is I tell you! - Cast off your chains to the empire, disown your dishonor & take up arms for the freedom of all mankind & space! It's worth noting that Du'uma Fiisi Integrated Astrometrics is recruiting (see my signature). Du'uma Fiisi is Recruiting
Jakiin	Posted - 2009.11.19 18:11:00 - [13] Originally by: Gaven Lok'ri You know, I find it really flattering that PIE gets blamed for accusations against No.Mercy that they are pirates and that people seem to think it is our job to spend time worrying about the other militia corps rather than fight the war. I'm sorry, we may have been put off by a few statements. Originally by: Rodj Blake Originally by: Tomahawk Bliss PIE not going to weight in on its ex-member and possible Amarrian Loyalist of the Year and their (poorly) hidden piracy? You seem to be forgetting two things. Firstly, PIE Inc simply isn't big enough to personally deal with every single act of piracy in the Empire. That was the case six years ago, and it's the case now. Secondly, whilst PIE condemns piracy, we like to be in full possession of the facts before classifying an activity as piracy. No.Mercy may have some questions to answer here, but we will ask them ourselves in the appropriate place. We shall then consider what needs to be done. Unlike SF, PIE does not believe in making knee-jerk reactions to every allegation of impropriety that are made here - particulary when they've been made by a known enemy of the Empire. Originally by: Grr Originally by: Elminatrix Hi, I've been aware of No Mercy CEO nomination for Amarian of the year and i got prove that they pirated my alliance by wardecing us in high sec and killing a statoin from section VI corp and with those intel report of wardecing someone to make isk is pure pirating they do not deserve ths right to be amarrian and if you see they killed mostly freighter in this wardec so by definition they are pirate but just with access to high sec legaly and i officially request the competant person in charge of that award to erase him from any nomination and get him out of CVA space asap thanks Elminatrix There are proper diplomatic channels for this. Feel free to contact me to discuss your case further. Quote: We do not support piracy of any sort, but neither do we have a policy of making it our business to publicly examine other militia corps' activities for the entertainment of the public. If we did launch an investigation on a topic such as this, then I can assure you that it would not appear in this cesspool. We do not expect the details, we simply wonder if you might grace this cesspool to give us some results. When you say nothing it is all too easy to believe that this is because there is nothing good to say. Quote: Finally, if PIE launched an investigation every time someone with as much credibility as Blood Soaked Goddess made an accusation, then we would not be fighting the war, but rather spending all of our time investigating people who are not our enemies and ignoring Shakor and his forces. True. However pictures were provided (I can mail them to you if you wish) proving that some sort of raiding was going on, at least one witness claimed testimony, and finally this is not some no-name militia group. This is the corp that's headed by the man who most see as having turned this war back around. These accusations bring his intentions to question, which casts doubt. PR is quite an important part of winning the war. Case in point: The FDU. Quote: So thank you for the attention; now go away and quit making a public spectacle of yourself. I cannot help but wonder if I've touched a soft spot. You seem like it's a disgrace for you to have set your feet down in this place, and that we lowly IGS speakers are expecting far too much from you. Is this your usual attitude or just a reaction? ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jakiin Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer'
Rodj Blake Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.11.19 18:16:00 - [14] Whilst we have not launched a formal investigation, a number of questions were indeed asked, and I can confirm that No.Mercy did respond to those questions. I have also previously suggested that Quebec Power privately send me the details of the proof which they claim to possess. However, as of this moment, they have not done so. Dulce et decorum est pro imperium mori.
Jakiin	Posted - 2009.11.19 18:25:00 - [15] Originally by: Rodj Blake Whilst we have not launched a formal investigation, a number of questions were indeed asked, and I can confirm that No.Mercy did respond to those questions. I have also previously suggested that Quebec Power privately send me the details of the proof which they claim to possess. However, as of this moment, they have not done so. See? We've been updated. This is much more preferable to the "You are beneath us, do not bother us little ants" method of public relations. If Quebec Power refuses to send any details or it appears they are supporting the enemy, then I would personally consider this all just another smear campaign and be done with it. I imagine most other Followers and allies would feel the same way. But trust can only extend so far when all we hear is silence. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jakiin Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer'
steveid Helljumpers	Posted - 2009.11.19 18:40:00 - [16] It is not without precedent for an army to live of the land in combat, gaining what resources it can to keep up the fight in the certain knowledge that if they were loyal to the cause they would gladly give and if they were disloyal then they were filth. To consider such acts piracy is short sighted. To claim that that any entity that does not materially support the cause has right to call judgment on such things is tantamount to heresy. A militia is not an army. It has no material support but that which it creates for itself and if some need to be put to the sword then what of it? Their reward lies in the deed itself. Inappropriate signature removed. Zymurgist
Lucius Vindictus Amarr Ordo Peregrinus	Posted - 2009.11.19 22:10:00 - [17] Usually it is mercenaries with dubious histories and/or known enemies of the Empire that vomit their complaints about the 24th crusade on this channel in endless multipaged rants accompanied with plenty of crocodile's tears. In such cases I simply choose to ignore them; their words unworthy of reply. However, I hold you in much higher regard and therefore I cannot stay silent, Jakiin. In the past I have agreed with much, indeed most of what you said in this channel. I welcome criticism where it might be useful, but this time I think you are being unreasonable. As you know, there are THOUSANDS of pilots in each militia. It is inevitable that some of those are less honourable than others, and sadly some of them are outright thugs and pirates who fight for nothing other than using a letter or marque to kill and plunder at will. I'll remind the pilots of the TLF that they too have such pilots in their ranks in case they harbor delusions to the contrary. As others have pointed out we are MILITIA and not a standing army. It is impossible to impose a single standard on a group that is so disorderly and diverse by nature. I don't approve of the actions of 100% of my fellow militiamen, but like PIE I don't consider it my job, or my Ordo's job or any other corporation for that matter to run after corps who's methods I don't agree with. If I did, I'd be doing nothing else, and frankly that's not why I signed up for the crusade. Moral compass or not, no matter how you look at it, it is unfair to hold PIE accountable for the actions of the entire militia. -----
Aphoxakhan Minmatar Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.11.19 22:31:00 - [18] Originally by: Lucius Vindictus Moral compass or not, no matter how you look at it, it is unfair to hold PIE accountable for the actions of the entire militia. We resign the chalice to connect with admissions that this statement is truth. Terror in the sighs.
Jakiin	Posted - 2009.11.19 23:16:00 - [19] Originally by: Lucius Vindictus However, I hold you in much higher regard and therefore I cannot stay silent, Jakiin. In the past I have agreed with much, indeed most of what you said in this channel. I welcome criticism where it might be useful, but this time I think you are being unreasonable. I am honoured, then, that you choose to comment. Quote: As others have pointed out we are MILITIA and not a standing army. It is impossible to impose a single standard on a group that is so disorderly and diverse by nature. I don't approve of the actions of 100% of my fellow militiamen, but like PIE I don't consider it my job, or my Ordo's job or any other corporation for that matter to run after corps who's methods I don't agree with. If I did, I'd be doing nothing else, and frankly that's not why I signed up for the crusade. I agree that it is impossible and unreasonable to try to impose full order upon a militia. I agree that if anyone were to try and police the 24th then they would have no time to fight. I also agree that it is not the job of any one corporation to ensure that every other within the militia is in lockstep. However here there comes a problem: No.Mercy is not every other corporation. I am admittedly not familiar with the specifics of the war, so I will not say whether they are responsible for the recent successes or comment on their combat ability. I will only speak on what I have noticed, and that is that Garst Tyrell is generally credited with the successes. He is seen as being the driving force. His prominence in the ALYA nominations alone speaks to that. Were this nearly any other corporation, I would not consider it a matter of any import. And even amongst the one or two others that I might give a second thought to in this regard, I would not be nearly so vocal in my concerns. But considering the high profile of the accused corporation and the morale effect they have on the people, I feel that simply looking into it a little and giving a quick report is reasonable. It would certainly ease the PR tensions. To reiterate: I do not expect PIE to spend its time investigating every claim made by every raving lunatic against every corporation within the Imperial Crusade. I simply expect it to use its renown to investigate when it appears that such a large morale force might actually be pirating neutral corporations while using God as a shield. Quote: Moral compass or not, no matter how you look at it, it is unfair to hold PIE accountable for the actions of the entire militia. This has been said before, so I will address it specifically. It is a true statement, one that I have no issue with. I do not claim the failure of PIE to be that No.Mercy pirated (If indeed they did). No, as you said no corporation can be expected to ensure no wrongs are committed by their brothers in arms. I claim that PIE failed in exposing the truth one way or another. They still have my respect, and they still have my prayers, but in this aspect alone I believe they have failed. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jakiin Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer'
Grim Asse	Posted - 2009.11.20 00:35:00 - [20] Interesting read, but in my opinion, even if no mercy attacked those corporations after officially announcing so to concord authorities, it's their right to do so and does not have anything to do with piracy. The Empire is at war - and if corporations just using the Empress' protection for personal profit without any contribution to the war effort, that's abuse of Imperial space by itself. In that case, it's Gods given right for any capsuleer within the milita to acquire the necessary goods from vultures exploiting the empires wealth for selfish reasons due to them not contributing to the cause deliberately.
ChipMo Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.11.20 00:46:00 - [21] With regard to Quibec Powers lack of follow up, it's quite clear to me that their pilots operate under a different communication protocol from most in the cluster. Something technical mumbo jumbo known as "French" ? If an organization struggles to report an offense to the empire (or PIE?) does that mean it never happened? That is some pretty half arsed diplomacy if you ask me. Even us 'crazy anarchists' have higher standards than that. When our RoE is breached we go out of our way to resolve it. We don't stick our heads in the sand and pretend it never happened.
Grim Asse	Posted - 2009.11.20 00:59:00 - [22] Originally by: ChipMo Edited by: ChipMo on 20/11/2009 00:46:41 With regard to Quibec Powers lack of follow up, it's quite clear to me that their pilots operate under a different communication protocol from most in the cluster. Some technical mumbo jumbo known as "French" ? Well - then these parasites better move on to exploit the federations wealth instead of freeloading in imperial space then - at least they share a commmon ancestry.
ChipMo Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.11.20 01:05:00 - [23] Originally by: Grim Asse Well - then these parasites better move on to exploit the federations wealth instead of freeloading in imperial space then - at least they share a commmon ancestry. Have you any evidence to back up these accusations? As far as I'm aware Quibec Power was in good standing with the Amarr Empire and paid its taxes like everyone else who works for the Empire.
Grim Asse	Posted - 2009.11.20 01:22:00 - [24] Providing evidence on how they provided the Empires war effort with any substantial assets would be their obligation.
ChipMo Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.11.20 01:59:00 - [25] Edited by: ChipMo on 20/11/2009 02:04:23 Originally by: Grim Asse Providing evidence on how they provided the Empires war effort with any substantial assets would be their obligation. Purchasing star base charters from Amarrians provides the Empire with ISK. This is one contribution they must have made; else there would never have been a PoS to shoot down. Edit: I feel at this point in the discussion, that I should point out to anyone reading this with more than 2 braincells to rub together that I am meerly leading the Amarrian horse to water. I do not expect it to drink. I hope from this small example of the Empire & its capsuleer communities hypocrisy you can gain some insight into why we wish to purge New Eden of this scourge.
Lucius Vindictus Amarr Ordo Peregrinus	Posted - 2009.11.20 02:08:00 - [26] Quote: I agree that it is impossible and unreasonable to try to impose full order upon a militia. I agree that if anyone were to try and police the 24th then they would have no time to fight. I also agree that it is not the job of any one corporation to ensure that every other within the militia is in lockstep.. Indeed, that is a hopelessly impossible task. And this applies to ANY of the militias. Not only the Amarr. Quote: However here there comes a problem: No.Mercy is not every other corporation. I am admittedly not familiar with the specifics of the war, so I will not say whether they are responsible for the recent successes or comment on their combat ability. I will only speak on what I have noticed, and that is that Garst Tyrell is generally credited with the successes. He is seen as being the driving force. His prominence in the ALYA nominations alone speaks to that. Garst Tyrell seems humble about his role and his contributions. It is others who seem to praise him into heaven. I admit that I've only recently rejoined the crusade and wasn't present at the "battle of Kamela", so my view is as incomplete as yours. Quote: Were this nearly any other corporation, I would not consider it a matter of any import. And even amongst the one or two others that I might give a second thought to in this regard, I would not be nearly so vocal in my concerns. But considering the high profile of the accused corporation and the morale effect they have on the people, I feel that simply looking into it a little and giving a quick report is reasonable. It would certainly ease the PR tensions. To reiterate: I do not expect PIE to spend its time investigating every claim made by every raving lunatic against every corporation within the Imperial Crusade. I simply expect it to use its renown to investigate when it appears that such a large morale force might actually be pirating neutral corporations while using God as a shield. I do not claim the failure of PIE to be that No.Mercy pirated (If indeed they did). No, as you said no corporation can be expected to ensure no wrongs are committed by their brothers in arms. I claim that PIE failed in exposing the truth one way or another. They still have my respect, and they still have my prayers, but in this aspect alone I believe they have failed. It is to your credit that you dare to question; even when it is impopular to do so. That said, I still don't agree with the notion that PIE failed anyone. But I'll simply leave it at that. I was just a little bit shocked at first when I read the title of your post and then see your name attached to it. -----
Jakiin	Posted - 2009.11.20 02:20:00 - [27] Originally by: Lucius Vindictus Indeed, that is a hopelessly impossible task. And this applies to ANY of the militias. Not only the Amarr. Naturally. They are, as you say, Militias, and not armies. Quote: Garst Tyrell seems humble about his role and his contributions. It is others who seem to praise him into heaven. I admit that I've only recently rejoined the crusade and wasn't present at the "battle of Kamela", so my view is as incomplete as yours. I feel this is largely a mental issue, not so much a practical one: Mr. Tyrell doesn't matter so much here as what people think of Mr. Tyrell does. Quote: It is to your credit that you dare to question; even when it is impopular to do so. That said, I still don't agree with the notion that PIE failed anyone. But I'll simply leave it at that. We have stated our cases and remained kosher about it. I'm glad that we can agree to disagree and leave the discussion on good terms. Quote: I was just a little bit shocked at first when I read the title of your post and then see your name attached to it. Yes, I thought that might happen with a few who made note of me. Ultimately I decided that all the seeming contradiction would do was to draw attention to the arguments presented, and any who decided to paint the whole topic with only the apparent colour of the title likely weren't worth arguing with in any case. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jakiin Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer'
Jakiin	Posted - 2009.11.20 02:29:00 - [28] Originally by: ChipMo With regard to Quibec Powers lack of follow up, it's quite clear to me that their pilots operate under a different communication protocol from most in the cluster. Some technical mumbo jumbo known as "French" ? I find it odd that not a single person in their organization is capable of speaking a more modern language. Or at least capable of using one of the hundreds of free translators provided on Galnet to write and read a few letters. Quote: If an organization struggles to report an offense to the empire (or PIE?) does that mean it never happened? No, but it doesn't mean it did happen. If no reports can be made then we cannot simply assume that No.Mercy did anything wrong. Innocent until proven guilty is the system that CONCORD uses, so it makes sense when dealing with inter-empire issues. Quote: That is some pretty half arsed diplomacy if you ask me. Even us 'crazy anarchists' have higher standards than that. When our RoE is breached we go out of our way to resolve it. We don't stick our heads in the sand and pretend it never happened. By 'we' do you mean 'Star Fraction' or 'Star Fraction and all of our allies'? Because no member of PIE has been accused of pirating. No.Mercy has been accused, but no one seems to have any evidence. And that group which might have evidence is apparently rendered incapable of speaking with anyone who does not speak 'French'. While I agree (Obviously) that PIE could have done more to keep us updated on things, that doesn't mean that if no evidence is presented then they have to start turning over every rock and stone in some sort of witch hunt. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------ Jakiin Holder Heir of the Kingdom 'Pacifist Reclaimer'
ChipMo Jericho Fraction The Star Fraction	Posted - 2009.11.20 02:56:00 - [29] Edited by: ChipMo on 20/11/2009 03:00:14 I don't want to become a delegate for Quibec Power, they are after all a cog in the enemy machine. I've posted my observations of them as an entity that any capsuleer can see with their search terminals. Beyond that its not really my place to say any more. The event in question did happen, if you use your terminals "war" tab you can look up a corporations active wars; many capsuleers used this to see the paperwork for themselves at the time. (I saw it myself). You can then search various kill databases for Quibecs losses at the time & you will see their PoS with No.Mercy pilots as the involved parties. - Please, spare us any more of this "it may not have happened" non-sense. It did clearly happen, the only room for debate is in the motives behind the assault. On to the crux of the issue; given what No.Mercy did was wrong in the eyes of the Empire I say the following: Your right to bring up the distinction between the two entities involved in this saga; I may have fudged them together under the Militia banner a little. It should be No.Mercy resolving this issue off their own back, however PIE appear to have stepped up to the plate instead (Much like Jehrico may, if say Lyrus were unable to deal with an issue they caused). If PIE openly take responsibility for the diplomacy then they should see it through. If they are not prepared to look into the issue they should never have said they would in the first place. To an outsider like me, this just stinks of a cover up. No.Mercy have avoided comment on the issue throughout and PIE have since claimed to be 'dealing' with it by sitting on their hands until it goes away. I don't much care if No.Mercy are pirates I don't really care if the Empire wants to use such people to further their own agenda, I will however point out bull **** when I see it. Edit: On a personal note Jakiin, I am impressed you ask your questions in public, you appear to have a surprisingly open mind for an Amarrian. I hope you find your truth, and that you aren't too dismayed by it when you do.
von Khan Amarr	Posted - 2009.11.20 04:11:00 - [30] Edited by: von Khan on 20/11/2009 04:16:39 Edited by: von Khan on 20/11/2009 04:15:10 Compliments to Jakiin, excellent topic with a respectful debate, set the precedent that civil and proper behavior governs over demagoguery. "Politics is more dangerous than war, for in battle you are only killed once." Alexander von Khan Philosopher

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