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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:27:00 -
[1]
Currently like on all other ships you can't remove fitted rigs without destroying them. This isn't usually an issue on regular ships because their bonuses, etc are fixed.
On T3 ships though where they were always intended to fit many different roles this is a real bind.
If you go for the subsystem that gives you a bonus to shield/armour HP then naturally one would choose Trimarks/CDFEs to maximise this benefit. If you went with the shield boost/armour rep bonused subsystem you'd likely pick subsystems that either increase this rep (Aux Nano Pump/Nanobot Inj), the duration of shield boost cycles or even just more cap for the booster.
As of right now whilst you can swap out subsystems and modules with ease to radically change the utility of your T3 ship you're forced to either be sub-optimal and go with the same-old-same-old cookie-cutter rigs that everyone fits to every ship anyway, or destroy your rigs every time you want to change your ship.
Allowing people to swap out rigs would improve the market for other rigs that people hardly ever buy (e.g. gravity capacitor upgrade rigs for a dedicated prober T3 ship, etc).
So, how about one of these two solutions:
1) T3 ships retain the same 3 rig slots but you can remove rigs from them the same way as you can remove subsystems.
OR
2) Each subsystem has a rig slot which you can use (or not). When you insert a rig into a subsystem is it in there until you decide to destroy it or replace it.
The calibration would remain the same on the ship, or maybe even different subsystems giving differing amounts of calibration (probably too complex to consider to begin with).
Thoughts?
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Licensed2kill
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:42:00 -
[2]
T3 Rigs.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.11.20 12:57:00 -
[3]
or just have more t3 cruiser. *orders another one*
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Grarr Wrexx
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Posted - 2009.11.20 13:20:00 -
[4]
Give em a finger, they'll want an arm.
Some variants of T3 ships are already mildly to harshly overpowered, we don't need even more variety.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 13:23:00 -
[5]
How is it variety when the only obstacle currently is buying more T3 hulls? It's not as if you can't fit all the rigs you want assuming you feel like buying more T3 hulls, unless you figure how much something costs should be the defining factor of whether it is deemed overpowered or not?
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 13:51:00 -
[6]
Make rigs "stick" to a subsystem you installed. Switch the subsystem, switch the rigs.
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I think, therefore I'm single.
Alliance creation service, also corp updates |
Winters Chill
Amarr
Shadow Legion.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 13:57:00 -
[7]
No terrible idea. Rigs are a staple to the economy because they are consumable. Im not going to explaining anymore to you because the chances of this idea ever happening are less than zero.
If you can't afford the 3-10 mil in medium rigs for a t3 refit, you probably shouldn't be flying a t3 ship.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 13:58:00 -
[8]
 Originally by: Winters Chill
If you can't afford the 3-10 mil in medium rigs for a t3 refit, you probably shouldn't be flying a t3 ship.
Nice generalisation. I use T2 rigs.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 14:33:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Winters Chill
If you can't afford the 3-10 mil in medium rigs for a t3 refit, you probably shouldn't be flying a t3 ship.
If you're too dumb to realise there's also T2 rigs, which happen to be used a lot on T3 ships, you probably shouldn't voice your opinion.
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I think, therefore I'm single.
Alliance creation service, also corp updates |
Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.11.20 14:51:00 -
[10]
Commit to your setup or don't use them.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 15:02:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Durzel on 20/11/2009 15:02:54
Originally by: Sig Sour
Commit to your setup or don't use them.
Cool, so make the subsystems fixed too right? Good job Einstein.
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Drakarin
Gallente
The Abyssmal Spire
Independent Faction
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Posted - 2009.11.20 15:28:00 -
[12]
I love the idea of adding tech 3 rigs, engineered especially to be compatible with subsystems. Upon removal of the subsystem, the rigs would be embedded in it. (So you can contract it out for a nice price).
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:19:00 -
[13]
Drop the rigs from the T3 ships. How is that for an idea?
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Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:29:00 -
[14]
You're *****ing about rigs on a T3 ship? If you can afford the high cost of a T3 ship then the rigs are nothing. And if CCP does inact this ****ant of a change then they better do it for the T2/T1 ships.
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I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 16:55:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal
You're *****ing about rigs on a T3 ship? If you can afford the high cost of a T3 ship then the rigs are nothing. And if CCP does inact this ****ant of a change then they better do it for the T2/T1 ships.
Which part of "T3 ships are modular but due to T2 rigs they're not really that modular at all" don't you understand.
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I think, therefore I'm single.
Alliance creation service, also corp updates |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:25:00 -
[16]
Thanks Marko. Seems like only you actually understand what I'm talking about.
Let's take a Legion for example, all lvl 5 skills, each setup has 3 T2 EANMs and a T2 DC.
Legion with 1 1600mm RT plate, "Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating" subsystem = 15054 armour hitpoints, 94,596 EHP
Legion with 1 1600mm RT plate, "Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating" subsystem, 3 T1 Medium Trimark rigs = 22956 armour hitpoints, 137,211 EHP
Legion with 1 1600mm RT plate, "Legion Defensive - Augmented Plating" subsystem, 3 T2 Medium Trimark rigs = 26082 armour hitpoints, 154,156 EHP
Quite a big difference no? Last I checked T2 Trimarks were about 50M each, so not exactly breaking the bank to buy but certainly something you wouldn't want to keep having to buy over and over.
With the active tanking variant:
Legion with 1 T2 Medium Armor repairer, "Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector" subsystem = 480hp repped every 9 seconds
Legion with 1 T2 Medium Armor repairer, "Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector" subsystem, 3 T1 Auxiliary Nano Pump rigs = 677.36 repped every 9 seconds
Legion with 1 T2 Medium Armor repairer, "Legion Defensive - Nanobot Injector" subsystem, 2 T2 Auxiliary Nano Pump rigs, 1 T1 Aux Nano Pump = 733.99 repped every 9 seconds
Obviously with the second active-tanking configuration the Aux Nano Pump rigs would be completely useless for a passive tanked build, and likewise Trimarks would be suboptimal for an active-tanking build.
The point I've been trying to make is that if you have a T3 ship now and you want to maximise your build you basically either have to resign yourself to using T1 rigs (suboptimal) and destroying them every time you decide to change your build, or write-off 100M+ every time by destroying your T2 rigs. Or you just carry on buying generic rigs like CCCs which don't make the most of your subsystem choices.
Anyone who doesn't realise the significance of rigs on these ships when they get such huge bonuses to tanking (50% extra hitpoints/50% extra rep/boosting) is an idiot.
It just seems to me that the whole principal of T3 being configurable is ruined slightly by the fixed rig system.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:52:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Durzel
Cool, so make the subsystems fixed too right? Good job Einstein.
No. Just rigs. That is the way rigs work. Learn the rules.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.11.20 17:58:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Marko Riva
Which part of "T3 ships are modular but due to T2 rigs they're not really that modular at all" don't you understand.
Choose your rigs wisely or you will need to pull them out again. Seeing you complain about how you rigged your T3 wrong and with T2 rigs is just funny.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 18:05:00 -
[19]
Edited by: Durzel on 20/11/2009 18:07:18
Originally by: Whitehound
Originally by: Marko Riva
Which part of "T3 ships are modular but due to T2 rigs they're not really that modular at all" don't you understand.
Choose your rigs wisely or you will need to pull them out again. Seeing you complain about how you rigged your T3 wrong and with T2 rigs is just funny.
It's not a case of rigging it wrong you spastic, you rig it according to whatever works best with the subsystems you're using. Subsystems, I might add, that were designed to be taken out at will.
If you went with a fully passive fit + plate(s) and DIDN'T rig it with Trimarks you'd be doing it wrong, but apparently if you switched to an active-tank fit (for whatever reason - I dunno, wormholing) you've stlil got the Trimarks in which are useless compared to Aux Nano Pumps.
Learn to read eh?
Originally by: Sig Sour
Originally by: Durzel
Cool, so make the subsystems fixed too right? Good job Einstein.
No. Just rigs. That is the way rigs work. Learn the rules.
No shit sherlock, what do you think the point of this thread was? I'll give you a clue: it's not a wiki entry.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.11.20 18:14:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Durzel
No shit sherlock, what do you think the point of this thread was? I'll give you a clue: it's not a wiki entry and it's posted in "Features and Ideas". Need more help to join the dots?
Rigs are destroyed if you remove them. You and your ship are not special. Live with it.
Trolling your own thread is awesome.
5,000,000,000 Troll points awarded.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 18:20:00 -
[21]
Holy fuck you really are retarded aren't you.
I figured rigs that "add to armour hitpoints" work best with subsystems that "add to armour hitpoints", and don't work very well with subsystems that don't - was a pretty obvious concept, but I guess not.
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Rhinanna
Minmatar
Volition Cult
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2009.11.20 18:29:00 -
[22]
The words "tough ****" come to mind here.
Rigs shouldn't be removable ever. If you rig your ship you have to keep it with those rigs or destroy the rigs, the fact that they may not be the optimal rigs for your change of setup isn't actually a problem.
Yes your T3 won't be as good if the rigs don't match the set-up. If you are so concerned about this then buy more hulls or deal with the cost of replacing the rigs. Yes this causes the ship to become slightly specialised, that kinda the point of the rigs in the first place!!! What you are asking for is all the advantages of a rigged T3 ship without the only disadvantage of not been able to switch the rigs.
T3 ships are already powerful enough without it. If they could switch rigs at will to suit their setup IMHO they would be too powerful and too versatile.
This doesn't limit T3 ships at all, the other set-ups are still possible, they just aren't as good as a T3 ship which has specialised itself to one role via rigs, as it should be.
-The sword is only as sharp as the one who wields it.
Drenzul (My normal internet tag) |
Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 18:32:00 -
[23]
Thanks, at least you understood what it was I was proposing which is a small mercy I guess.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2009.11.20 18:37:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Durzel
Holy fuck you really are retarded aren't you.
I figured rigs that "add to armour hitpoints" work best with subsystems that "add to armour hitpoints", and don't work very well with subsystems that don't - was a pretty obvious concept, but I guess not.
The Typhoon works awesome as either a shield tank or a armor tank. It also has very versatile high slots. Because it is so versatile, do you think that rigs should also be removable on the typhoon?
A cerb can be a siper or a heavy tank, but it has a utility slot and can be used as scanning ship with a codebreaker/analyzer in the mids. So it should have the ability to have the rigs removed.
A vexor can run a shield buffer, armor buffer, armor tank, pure damage, or even run as a mining cruiser, so it needs to have this ability you ask for as well.
... I could go on.
No T3 is not special, sorry.
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Ketinvik
SRE Brotherhood
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Posted - 2009.11.20 18:39:00 -
[25]
I'd be happy if they'd let me pull the subsystems off the hull (and leave an open slot.) I'd be willing to have a different hull for each set of rigs.
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Whitehound
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Posted - 2009.11.20 19:07:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Durzel
If you went with a fully passive fit + plate(s) and DIDN'T rig it with Trimarks you'd be doing it wrong, but apparently if you switched to an active-tank fit (for whatever reason - I dunno, wormholing) you've stlil got the Trimarks in which are useless compared to Aux Nano Pumps.
Learn to read eh?
You can fit some ships equally well as armour tanking or shield tanking ships. Once you rig it with either setup in mind will you be fixed to one of them if you want to benefit from the rigs. You can rig a ship with hybrid rigs, but then you need to use hybrid weapons to benefit from them. The very same applies for T3s and their subsystems.
I have now reported 2 of your comments as insults. You seem to have difficulties accepting things how they are.
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Traidor Disloyal
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2009.11.20 20:32:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Marko Riva
Originally by: Traidor Disloyal
You're *****ing about rigs on a T3 ship? If you can afford the high cost of a T3 ship then the rigs are nothing. And if CCP does inact this ****ant of a change then they better do it for the T2/T1 ships.
Which part of "T3 ships are modular but due to T2 rigs they're not really that modular at all" don't you understand.
What part of "you want a big expensive toy to go Pew Pew in then stop *****ing about the cost" you don't understand? I don't care if it's modular. If you can afford the T3 components then you can afford to destroy the T2 rigs when you want to change its role. If you can't afford that then don't fly T3. If you can't afford the T2 rigs then it's real simple to go T1 rig. Or does your epeen stop you from doing that?
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I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it. |
Typhado3
Minmatar
Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium
Aeternus.
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Posted - 2009.11.20 21:41:00 -
[28]
Ok here's a couple things I got to add.
Ships only cost 250 mil so if you want a different set all you need is a second base. Also while a complete rework of the ship will require different rigs you can still make plenty of changes with the same rigs on. For example a ship may be trimarked up and using the resist subsystem along with a tank setup and ewar equipment. Now you decide you want to change it to be a cloaker, you can still keep the same tank subsystems and rigs while changing a large amount of the setup. Needing a new 250 mil ship each time you want to change rigs is comparable to faction ships whenever they want to change setups so not that unusual, but still the modular nature of t3 ships makes it kinda a pain.
I really think you'll need to reach some sort of compromise between being able to take them out which is completley OP and not being able to take them out at all. The idea you proposed I think is pretty close to a solution but has a couple problems:
1. You cannot let someone fit more than 3 rigs to a t3 ship. even if it fits with calibration letting have 5 or more rigs is just way beyond OP.
2. Some rig setups are all based around a single subsystem (eg. triple trimarked based on defense system).
I'd suggest changin the second solution so each subsystem has 3 rig slots that work same way as rigs on current ships however they are limited to only fit certain rigs (eg. armour/shield in the defense subystem, ewar rigs in electronic subsystem). Though this second part isn't a necessity it's just more to stop someone only rigging the cheapest standard subsystem and using it as an effective rig subsystem, also it makes more sense from a RP point of view. Then make it so whenever you are putting a ship together it will not allow you to fit subsystems if they would cause you to go over the 3 rig limit or the 400 calibration limit.
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Just a crazy inventor
ccp fix mining agent missions % pls
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Aya Sin
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:19:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Durzel
2) Each subsystem has a rig slot which you can use (or not). When you insert a rig into a subsystem is it in there until you decide to destroy it or replace it.
Your option 2 sounds like a nice compromise between the current situation and options 1 (which seems like too much freedom and would basically turn rigs into modules).
Wonder why this wasn't done in the first place anyway. Probably the "too much effort" problem again...
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Vyktor Abyss
The Abyss Corporation
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Posted - 2009.11.20 22:37:00 -
[30]
or...
3) Rigs not allowed on T3 cruisers - Problem solved.
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Sunbound
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:17:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Typhado3
T3 ships only cost 250 mil so if you want a different set all you need is a second base.
An assembled T3 hull must have five sybsystems on it at all times. You can't just have a rigged hull sitting there on its own while you're using its subsystems elsewhere.
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Thraxon
Black-Sun
Pitch Black Legion
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Posted - 2009.11.21 11:27:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Sunbound
Originally by: Typhado3
T3 ships only cost 250 mil so if you want a different set all you need is a second base.
An assembled T3 hull must have five sybsystems on it at all times. You can't just have a rigged hull sitting there on its own while you're using its subsystems elsewhere.
Buy 5 of the cheapest subsystems as placeholders. Really dumb though... you should be able to take out the subsystems.
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