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Author	Thread Statistics \| Show CCP posts - 2 post(s)
Kalestra Cable Caldari Faust Industries	Posted - 2009.11.20 21:22:00 - [31] Originally by: TeaDaze Rational representation is required and I understand whilst the CSM have no power to compel CCP to make changes etc that any issue raised by them is supposed to get a response from CCP. The CSM wasn't created to give a rational voice to the forums or players, it was created to be a shield to hide behind when CCP ends up getting caught doing something it shouldn't. No matter how well intentioned the people who get their power blocs to vote them in might be we're all fanbois and the slightest sign of a dev paying a little attention and every sensible/rational thought of constructive argument gets burnt away until you end up being the rubber stamp that wasn't required in the first place. As I said previously a waste of time.
TeaDaze Agony Unleashed Agony Empire	Posted - 2009.11.20 21:23:00 - [32] Originally by: Grillmeister Grim So what should be different with the CSM? Just because it is 'face to face' talk a few times a year? LOL, how naive can you be? Grow up. If you cannot see why CCP are more likely to be receptive to constructive feedback from player reps (who have filtered the player comments into a concise form) than a raging threadnaught then I can't help you. I agree that censorship isn't wanted. However there are forum rules in place and if people insist on posting unconstructive spam which deliberately breaks those rules then they will get their posts edited or removed. Vote TeaDaze for CSM #4
Orgell Evaan Minmatar Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2009.11.20 21:30:00 - [33] Originally by: TeaDaze Originally by: Grillmeister Grim So what should be different with the CSM? Just because it is 'face to face' talk a few times a year? LOL, how naive can you be? Grow up. If you cannot see why CCP are more likely to be receptive to constructive feedback from player reps (who have filtered the player comments into a concise form) than a raging threadnaught then I can't help you. I agree that censorship isn't wanted. However there are forum rules in place and if people insist on posting unconstructive spam which deliberately breaks those rules then they will get their posts edited or removed. Perhaps if it took less than 24 hours between regurgitations of incorrect information, there would be no emoragespam. When someone doesn't know what they're talking about, won't listen to people that do, and continues to reiterate those incorrect assumptions as the basis for their decisions before vanishing in s cloud of deleted posts, there is a considerably smaller chance of rational discussion.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.11.20 21:33:00 - [34] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Marlona Sky Too much corruption in the CSM's. So the fact that Larkonis broke the rules make the CSM too corrupt? Interesting. He added to it yes. He was not the only problem in the last CSM. Simply put CSM is a waste of time. CCP says that several of the upcoming changes are because of the CSM but then the CSM is screaming that what is happening is not what they suggested. So you tell me, which group is lying? CCP or CSM
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.11.20 21:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Marlona Sky Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Marlona Sky Too much corruption in the CSM's. So the fact that Larkonis broke the rules make the CSM too corrupt? Interesting. He added to it yes. He was not the only problem in the last CSM. Simply put CSM is a waste of time. CCP says that several of the upcoming changes are because of the CSM but then the CSM is screaming that what is happening is not what they suggested. So you tell me, which group is lying? CCP or CSM You didn't explain how the CSM is corrupt other than Larkonis.
Cornette Gallente Black Screen of Death Huzzah Federation	Posted - 2009.11.20 22:20:00 - [36] I already voted, but I'm tempted to let it be the last time. The feeling that CSM is just a farce to keep the players placated with empty promises is growing stronger by the minute ---
Bagdon GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.11.20 23:09:00 - [37] Originally by: LaVista Vista You didn't explain how the CSM is corrupt other than Larkonis. I'm pretty sure one of the previous CSM delegates was a director who took out salary from the EBANK scam.
Meissa Anunthiel Redshift Industrial Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2009.11.20 23:15:00 - [38] Originally by: lolzrelgions Edited by: lolzrelgions on 20/11/2009 19:04:31 CCP Nozh has shown CSM either don't do their job or you don't listen so what is the point of this farce? I beg to disagree. For over a year I've been on the CSM (CSM 2 alt, CSM 3 main [running for CSM 4 btw]), I'll tell you this: Everytime we've had conversations with Chronotis or Abathur about 0.0 just about any of the people we met in iceland, the only thing that transpired was mutual understanding (sometimes disagreement, but they couldn't be faulted for not knowing the game they were designing). We didn't have much contribution in the Titan changes (although we've brought their rebalancing/repurposing to the table), although we did to various degrees on the rest. I'm as infuriated as most of the people responding to the threads, not because they ignored us or anything, but because at the 11th hour, after we were in agreement on most things, everything got changed. The mom [lack of] changes? The titan nerf? the nag [re]nerf? they're all things I'm majorly ****ed about. And we never talked with this Nozh dude, whereever they may have pulled him from, I don't know... You may not be happy with the result here (and I'm not either), but don't ignore everything else the CSM has accomplished. The CSM is a venue for communication and progress, and it has to be pursued, or do you prefer to be ignored in the forums? It's much harder for one to ignore someone on a personal basis than just not reading the forums... My 0.02 ISK Meissa Anunthiel There is no signature
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.11.20 23:21:00 - [39] Originally by: Bagdon Originally by: LaVista Vista You didn't explain how the CSM is corrupt other than Larkonis. I'm pretty sure one of the previous CSM delegates was a director who took out salary from the EBANK scam. Well, such a shame you don't have your fact straight when you can't make a point worth anything.
Misaki Yuuko	Posted - 2009.11.21 00:52:00 - [40] The only feedback CCP takes from playerbase is the one of positive reinforcement: they tend to reinforce points they agree totally with playerbase but dismiss things they don't agree with. Thus all this PR farce has to end. And yes, things like what happend with Nozh is just an other demonstration of this phenomenon. I'm not voting this time with 200 accounts and anyway allready canceled 199.

Catari Taga Centre Of Attention Rough Necks	Posted - 2009.11.21 03:58:00 - [41] Originally by: Nightbird Quick, Quick!!! Post another blog that tries to push the Mothership cluster-f*ck off the top of the blog list. Lol, my thoughts exactly when I saw this. CSM's apparent impotence aside I voted a while ago already, not voting is the only sure way to not make CSM and thus the playerbase stronger.
fuze Gallente Quam Singulari	Posted - 2009.11.21 11:53:00 - [42] CSM should strive for a right to VETO changes pherhaps backed up by a 66% majority of votes of the players. Originally by: The Mittani Where's the excellence?
Karl Luckner	Posted - 2009.11.21 14:24:00 - [43] Originally by: CCP Fallout It's that time of year again: CSM election time! If you haven't voted yet, you should. And if you're looking for some inspiration, check out CCP Diagoras' blog on the matter. Well, unfortunately none of the candidates that took the time to create a webpage for their candidacy seem to represent the interests of the state.
Marlona Sky D00M. Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.11.22 11:07:00 - [44] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Marlona Sky Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Marlona Sky Too much corruption in the CSM's. So the fact that Larkonis broke the rules make the CSM too corrupt? Interesting. He added to it yes. He was not the only problem in the last CSM. Simply put CSM is a waste of time. CCP says that several of the upcoming changes are because of the CSM but then the CSM is screaming that what is happening is not what they suggested. So you tell me, which group is lying? CCP or CSM You didn't explain how the CSM is corrupt other than Larkonis. Give it a rest vista, CSM is nothing short of a ****ing joke and you know it. Let it go man.
Doc Robertson	Posted - 2009.11.22 11:31:00 - [45] I gave my vote to lady #4. She promised to save the pandas
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.11.22 13:06:00 - [46] Originally by: Marlona Sky Give it a rest vista, CSM is nothing short of a ****ing joke and you know it. Let it go man. The fact you don't actually answer the question speaks volumes, doesn't it?
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2009.11.22 14:27:00 - [47] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Marlona Sky Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: Marlona Sky Too much corruption in the CSM's. So the fact that Larkonis broke the rules make the CSM too corrupt? Interesting. He added to it yes. He was not the only problem in the last CSM. Simply put CSM is a waste of time. CCP says that several of the upcoming changes are because of the CSM but then the CSM is screaming that what is happening is not what they suggested. So you tell me, which group is lying? CCP or CSM You didn't explain how the CSM is corrupt other than Larkonis. Were you asleep when Mazz posted in the assembly hall that she would gladly bring up any issue as long as someone gave her a shiny GTC for it? Please, CSM 3 was a joke, and everyone with more than three braincells knows it. Why should we expect CSM 4 to be any different? If the CSM don't take themselves seriously, why should we? --Vel In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.11.22 14:30:00 - [48] Originally by: De'Veldrin Were you asleep when Mazz posted in the assembly hall that she would gladly bring up any issue as long as someone gave her a shiny GTC for it? Please, CSM 3 was a joke, and everyone with more than three braincells knows it. Why should we expect CSM 4 to be any different? If the CSM don't take themselves seriously, why should we? You realize that you got trolled, right?
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2009.11.22 15:00:00 - [49] Originally by: LaVista Vista Originally by: De'Veldrin Were you asleep when Mazz posted in the assembly hall that she would gladly bring up any issue as long as someone gave her a shiny GTC for it? Please, CSM 3 was a joke, and everyone with more than three braincells knows it. Why should we expect CSM 4 to be any different? If the CSM don't take themselves seriously, why should we? You realize that you got trolled, right? And you realize that proves the point of my last line, right? --Vel In the world of emoticons, I was colon capital d.
LaVista Vista Conservative Shenanigans Party	Posted - 2009.11.22 15:34:00 - [50] Originally by: De'Veldrin And you realize that proves the point of my last line, right? The point is that Mazz is a joke for doing it. But you realize that paying ISK for having a person raise an issue has absolutely no impact on anything, right?

BANDIT BACKDOOR Minmatar Minmatar Gay Slave Right League	Posted - 2009.11.22 15:39:00 - [51] Unfortunately my main got banned for explaining how eve-search caches the eve forums, so Ill have to use this silly little alt :P Anyhow, while I do agree with lavista that 90% of you are silly little whiners, I think a question should be asked regarding the viability of the CSM as a representing body. Does the CSM bring more focus and more stress on the issues that are important to us? more than a 100page threadnaught? are the issues brought up by the CSM being dealt with? Is there a list of the issues raised by the CSM, and how many of them went into effect in the game(or being worked on now)? Can the CSM actually affect anything, or are they a purely representative body? Do we need a group of players of to represent the rest when we have direct contact with the devs/GMs/etc through the forums? And now with [tinfoil hat]: Is the CSM just meant to quiet us? give the "moral" backing to CCP saying "oh we don't care about the forums, real important stuff will come through the CSM"? is this whole BS just meant to drop the responsability of the dev to collect feed on players backs? Is the CSM a glorified secritery group? [/tinfoil hat] At any case, I have nothing against the CSM, and Ill be voting with both my accounts a bit later today - but I wonder if my votes really mean anything, and if the CSM will really achieve its goals of being a bridge between players and devs. This current whining/flaming mood has started due to eve players and the dev failing to communicate - and IMO since thats the CSMs field, they have failed in their jobs.
Silver Tongues	Posted - 2009.11.22 19:35:00 - [52] Originally by: BANDIT BACKDOOR Edited by: BANDIT BACKDOOR on 22/11/2009 16:04:05 Unfortunately my main got banned for explaining how eve-search caches the eve forums, so Ill have to use this silly little alt :P Anyhow, while I do agree with lavista that 90% of you are silly little whiners, I think a question should be asked regarding the viability of the CSM as a representing body. Does the CSM bring more focus and more stress on the issues that are important to us? more than a 100page threadnaught? are the issues brought up by the CSM being dealt with? Is there a list of the issues raised by the CSM, and how many of them went into effect in the game(or being worked on now)? Can the CSM actually affect anything, or are they a purely representative body? Do we need a group of players of to represent the rest when we have direct contact with the devs/GMs/etc through the forums? And now with [tinfoil hat]: Is the CSM just meant to quiet us? give the "moral" backing to CCP saying "oh we don't care about the forums, real important stuff will come through the CSM"? is this whole BS just meant to drop the responsability of the dev to collect feed on players backs? Is the CSM a glorified secritery group? [/tinfoil hat] At any case, I have nothing against the CSM, and Ill be voting with both my accounts a bit later today - but I wonder if my votes really mean anything, and if the CSM will really achieve its goals of being a bridge between players and devs. This current whining/flaming mood has started due to eve players and the dev failing to communicate - and IMO since thats the CSMs field, they have failed in their jobs. P.S decided to vote in the end - 1 account for Alekseyev Karrde, 1 for Herschel Yamamoto. I know it's not really a list, but here's 2 dev blogs with issues brought up by the CSM that eventually made it in-game. Dev Blog 1 Dev Blog 2 I would like to see an Evelopia page dedicated to this type of information.
Serenity Steele Dynamic Data Distribution	Posted - 2009.11.23 10:58:00 - [53] It's quite amazing to see comments in this thread on conspiracy and reasons not to vote. The CSM has created and delivers on the opportunity for actual support and trust in elected representatives. Please check you RL paranoias at the door. The issue of CCP delivering transparency on the impact (eg. Agile Backlog re-prioritization) is indeed an issue; One that the next Council themselves (hopefully myself included) can and should address. CCP are very open in their discussion, and have a common intent to improve the impact, communication and value of CSM for all EVE Players. If this is in any doubt, it is up to the CSM to make that clear to the players! And of course, if you don't like any of the candidates, then put forward yourself, or people you do believe would be suitable. ≡v≡ Strategic Maps in Eve-Online Store. CSM 4 Candidate - Vote for Serenity Steele
something somethingdark	Posted - 2009.11.23 11:03:00 - [54] Would have voted for that guy what tried to pull a fastone since he represents the majority of what eve players are like and want to do. Will not vote for anybodys real life name i now know for no reason whatsoever. I realize that CCP has to know that but why does the rest ?

CCP Xhagen	Posted - 2009.11.23 11:58:00 - [55] The CSM as a process that does work. I do realize that two very important changes that are currently in the spotlight do not support my claim, but looking at it in a larger perspective does suggest that it works. This is still a learning experience and as such it will only get better with time. I have never claimed that in terms of the CSM, we would get it right in the first try. ____________________________ EVE Online CCP Games

Jack Gilligan THE MuPPeT FaCTOrY	Posted - 2009.11.23 13:03:00 - [56] Originally by: CCP Xhagen The CSM as a process that does work. I do realize that two very important changes that are currently in the spotlight do not support my claim, but looking at it in a larger perspective does suggest that it works. This is still a learning experience and as such it will only get better with time. I have never claimed that in terms of the CSM, we would get it right in the first try. It does not work, and it's proven to be nothing but a "superfanboi" club. Everything you are shoving down our throats with Dominion proves you don't give a crap about what we think or what we want. So, I choose to NOT vote for the joke that is the CSM, but vote in another, more important way. Check the status of my 4 accounts to see how I voted. With my feet and with my wallet. CANCEL Dominion and I will uncancel my accounts.
Maximus Profitus	Posted - 2009.11.23 14:39:00 - [57] Some people here tend to react in a rather childish way, threatening to quit even before you know what the new plan (or the actual implementation) will be like. I've been talking to a friend of mine who is a hard-core PVP-er and has experience with MOM's, and even he says the MOM's as first planned were way overpowered. And yes ofcourse most of the tester agreed on the changes initially proposed, because most of them probably were either MOM pilots or those who would benefit from it. Also the people on the forums in the threadnaughts are also only a minority of the players, not everyone is on the forums and a lot of people probably couldn't care less about MOM's as long as they are balanced. So there are more players than just the MOM users and CCP also needs to take them into account, and while it would probably be fun for the minority of MOM users, it also has to stay fun for the rest of the players. So I for one am glad CCP does not just listen to a minority, but also takes Eve as a whole into account with all its aspects working together. Also give Nozh a break, good chance Abathur was on the same team making the decision together for not going through with the changes. Probably a slight case of shooting the messenger. I still have full confidence in CCP and also think the CSM is very usefull eventhough they don't have a final say in the matter, they did bring some changes that mattered (though they seem to be easily forgotten...).
Dierdra Vaal Caldari Eve University Ivy League	Posted - 2009.11.23 14:43:00 - [58] Edited by: Dierdra Vaal on 23/11/2009 14:43:27 While the recent mothership changes are impopular and did not involve the CSM at all, not voting at all is not the best way to solve this. The CSM is not perfect but it is better than nothing and we have seen the process work (skill queues, fuel bays, etc). The only way we can improve the process is by constantly working on it. The people you elect now will most likely discuss mothership and titan changes with CCP, so choose wisely. For those who feel there are too many candidates: Vote Match! can help you generate a short list :) Director of Education :: EVE University Chairman of the CSM
Bomberlocks Minmatar Brutor tribe	Posted - 2009.11.23 19:31:00 - [59] I just voted. Fat lot of good it will do me, though. It feel that CCP is so adamant in pushing their own agenda that I have more or less wasted one and a half years of training on this character. CCP suffer from extremely poor customer relations and an inability to admit to their own mistakes or to acknowledge what input player feedback has on them, if any, as well as an almost total lack of transparency in both game development matters and the way any controversies are handled. If CCP were really interested in player feedback, they would publish a secure method of voting on game development requests and then follow that lead. As that could very possibly lead to true balance in game, as opposed to CCP's FOTM ideas of balance, CCP will never do that. That said, CCP is a business and is free to develop their own product in their own direction (just as I am free to stop paying them for that product), but I honestly feel that the pseudo player friendliness and the blatant lie that players have any major feedback on the game only serves to discredit them more than they already have been.
Kiri Serrensun	Posted - 2009.11.23 21:46:00 - [60] Voting, because while I don't have strong emotions about motherships, the way the changes were announced and feedback was handled was terrible--it's plain that more communication with players is needed for CCP's sake, not less.



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