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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
incedius
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Posted - 2009.12.21 13:38:00 -
[601]
Evebank sounds like a goverment. Pull a massive scam an then claim to have ridden yourselves of the ones to blaim. Then use the justifaction of fixing other peoples mistakes to change your own rules an regulations to favor yourself. Impose regulations that only people that have already given you there money would agree to. Leave people with no option but to agree with what your selling in the hope they will one day see a small percent of what they paid in returned in some way.
Look at the api. How the heck could you expect people to trust you with there api after the billions that where stolen. Thats so dumb the only reason I can think you would evan suggest it is "we dont expect people to trust us". An the "we dont" statment leads us back to the above paragraph.
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Riethe
Invictus Sovereignty
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Posted - 2009.12.21 16:53:00 -
[602]
 Originally by: YouGotRipped
Hey Riethe, where have you been buddy?
Oh... you never left. 
We could have just stopped there, but we didn't. We're also adding in the reduced price of 9.95 for the first month if you resubscribe to EVE Online during your free five days.
FIVE FREE DAYS OF EVE ONLINE
THE ZEPHYR EXPLORATION SHIP
9.95 FOR THE FIRST MONTH WHEN YOU RESUBSCRIBE
There's no reason NOT to reactivate your account and return to the most dynamic virtual universe in online gaming - EVE Online!
Also, definitely not buddies.
By the way--I definitely called out these ricdic shenanigans back in my scam announcement post.
Just sayin'
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2009.12.21 19:42:00 -
[603]
Originally by: Riethe
Also, definitely not buddies.
Anytime.
Black Sun Empire |
Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2009.12.23 18:17:00 -
[604]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Recruitment
EBANK is a diverse collection of individuals, all with different reasons for (still) being here. We often argue, quite illogically, due to our differing passions, but we're united behind one common cause, to see EBANK restored to its former glory. And we want you to help, by joining us on this glorious and noble quest. These various roles need filling, perchance you might fill one of them?
Should you wish to fill one of the roles mentioned in the OP, please fill in the application available here.
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Kapila Parthalan
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Posted - 2009.12.23 18:58:00 -
[605]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
I will code and test this afternoon with an aim to having it live this evening.
This was on 11.29. Since then, there have not been any updates on the status of BLEEP. Has there been any progress? When will this be done?
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Agreed. The Board will draft the final API policy this weekend and release it next week sometime. It'll be no different to what has already been stated, however this will be an official, unambiguous version clearly outlined in our TOS.
This was even earlier, on 11.26. Why has this API policy not been released yet, and when will it be?
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2009.12.23 19:18:00 -
[606]
Originally by: Kapila Parthalan
This was on 11.29. Since then, there have not been any updates on the status of BLEEP. Has there been any progress? When will this be done?
I honestly haven't had the time, I've been a bit swamped trying to finish some work projects before my long break (which started today). The only progress has been in my head on how to implement the change in the code. It will be done, dunno, soonish. When do you want it done by?
Originally by: Kapila Parthalan
This was even earlier, on 11.26. Why has this API policy not been released yet, and when will it be?
Same again, a proposal has not yet been presented to the board for review and vote. As you can see, we've only today finalised the Q&A for applications; we're going in some random order of importance. It will be done by the time the BLEEP interface is live.
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RAW23
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Posted - 2009.12.23 19:29:00 -
[607]
Ray - Just had a look at the questions you are asking applicants and the code of conduct you want them to agree to. I found the following elements of the code of conduct fascinating.
"Be Considerate.
Realise that your actions and words have an effect on others, take those consequences into account when making decisions.
Be Respectful.
Disagreement is no excuse for poor behaviour and poor manners, frustration cannot be allowed to turn into personal attacks. A community where people feel uncomfortable or threatened is not a productive one.
Be Constructive.
Disagreements and differing views should be discussed constructively; advice should be sought from others to resolve any disputes."
Um. You didn't write that did you? Will you be signing up to your own code of conduct at some point in the future?
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2009.12.23 20:48:00 -
[608]
What measures are in place to prevent a scammer alt from joining Ebank?
Black Sun Empire |
Kapila Parthalan
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Posted - 2009.12.23 21:07:00 -
[609]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Kapila Parthalan
This was on 11.29. Since then, there have not been any updates on the status of BLEEP. Has there been any progress? When will this be done?
I honestly haven't had the time, I've been a bit swamped trying to finish some work projects before my long break (which started today). The only progress has been in my head on how to implement the change in the code. It will be done, dunno, soonish. When do you want it done by?
Originally by: Kapila Parthalan
This was even earlier, on 11.26. Why has this API policy not been released yet, and when will it be?
Same again, a proposal has not yet been presented to the board for review and vote. As you can see, we've only today finalised the Q&A for applications; we're going in some random order of importance. It will be done by the time the BLEEP interface is live.
Well, thanks for the updates, even though they are quite late. Those things were scheduled to be done within a week, and it has already been about a month. Hopefully you can actually finish them within the next week or so.
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KaarBaak
Minmatar
Mindstar Technology
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Posted - 2009.12.23 21:12:00 -
[610]
Originally by: RAW23
Ray - Just had a look at the questions you are asking applicants and the code of conduct you want them to agree to. I found the following elements of the code of conduct fascinating.
"Be Considerate.
Realise that your actions and words have an effect on others, take those consequences into account when making decisions.
Be Respectful.
Disagreement is no excuse for poor behaviour and poor manners, frustration cannot be allowed to turn into personal attacks. A community where people feel uncomfortable or threatened is not a productive one.
Be Constructive.
Disagreements and differing views should be discussed constructively; advice should be sought from others to resolve any disputes."
Um. You didn't write that did you? Will you be signing up to your own code of conduct at some point in the future?
I think these were meant to address ebank employee to ebank employee relationships. Nothing to do with customer service.
KB
KB
My blogs:
Tastes Like Chicken
EvE Meta-Gaming |
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Phoebe Halliwel
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Posted - 2009.12.23 21:30:00 -
[611]
Originally by: YouGotRipped
What measures are in place to prevent a scammer alt from joining Ebank?
2.What is your favourite colour?
That looks like the likely scammer filter.
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BlondieBC
Minmatar
Galactic Exploration and Missions
Arcane Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.23 22:56:00 -
[612]
Edited by: BlondieBC on 23/12/2009 22:56:17
Wrong thread 
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2009.12.24 07:24:00 -
[613]
&A Originally by: YouGotRipped
What measures are in place to prevent a scammer alt from joining Ebank?
Subsequent to the Q we will hold interviews where we'll ask people if they are "scammer alts". That should weed them out. Alternatively we shall sit on their faces and fart until they answer honestly.
Originally by: RAW23
You didn't write that did you?
I indeed did, thanks for asking. This is where the SRO and CO would step in and say "Ray, you're being a bit of a ****, stop it". Also, we're still looking for that PR guru, had a couple of apps, need to check the mailbox today. It's possible you won't have to watch me prostrate myself here much longer.
Originally by: Kapila Parthalan
Those things were scheduled to be done within a week, and it has already been about a month. Hopefully you can actually finish them within the next week or so.
If the bank paid me as well as my job then they would have been done within a day. I wouldn't bank on them being done by this time next week though, it's half nine and I'm already half cut. Give me a reasonable deadline (remember, there are other tasks assigned to me) and I'll stick to it.
Originally by: KaarBaak
Nothing to do with customer service.
Customer what?
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.24 09:24:00 -
[614]
Ray,
It's good to have you back. This barge needs its captain at the helm lest it drift any farther off course.
Would you mind addressing my comments in post 580. Does EBANK intend to repay the interest that ought to have been accruing these past few months? If so, how will that be handled and what guarantees are you making?
I feel that I have to disclose my increasing unease in continuing to pay EBANK interest on Kwint Industries Bonds while they are at the same time refusing to pay me, and for that matter any other investors, promised interest.
It is lamentable though at least understandable that you have trapped my money in an account that pays lower returns than what I borrow at but for you to then simply disavow the interest and continue to hold my funds is unacceptable and highly offensive!
I want to help EBANK recover but if EBANK's position is that money will be held without even honoring the promised rates of return then I can't help but oppose them and if that means nullifying your investment in Kwint Industries then so be it. I'd rather be branded a scammer then quietly pay you to cheat your customers.
I realize how that comes across but I don't mean it as a threat and I certainly don't care about the money. Hell, agree to honor your word and restore the interest right now and I'll donate the few billion in my account.
What I do care about is the principle and the hypocrisy I'm feeling as I pay you dividends every week and get cheated in exchange, knowing full well that I could end the cycle and recoup my capital plus interest and fees to boot. Here I am decrying the practice and yet helping you do it. I don't want to take such a counterproductive action but just the same I've never tolerated hypocrisy before and I don't intend to start now. So, make us both honest men and for better or for worse, let the interest roll.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2009.12.24 09:44:00 -
[615]
How do you propose we pay interest considering we're still trying to recover a massive deficit?
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Kalrand
Charles Ponzi School of Business
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2009.12.24 10:00:00 -
[616]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
How do you propose we pay interest considering we're still trying to recover a massive deficit?
Write down accounts to their pro rata share of the remaining assets and soldier on from there.
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Leneerra
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.12.24 10:04:00 -
[617]
To your suggestion of us setting you a deadline, what would be the use when you:
a. do not keep to the deadlines you set yourself
b. do not keep the promises you make anyway.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2009.12.24 10:06:00 -
[618]
What promises have I made?
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.24 10:09:00 -
[619]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
How do you propose we pay interest considering we're still trying to recover a massive deficit?
You should be paying interest at an overall rate of what? 2%? 1.5%? 1%? Even with compounding these should not be unattainable numbers. Will it slow your recovery? Absolutely. Will it make it impossible? Unlikely and if that extra 1.5% monthly is what extends the date you're solvent out to infinity then this really ought to be shutdown now.
Certainly, paying the interest adds even more of a burden but it's a burden you must bear and if you can't then it's time to accept it and close the bank. I don't want to start declaring dichotomies everywhere but you have only two valid choices: repay everything or close the bank. You don't get to hold everyone's money for months without paying a cent just to recoup the principle and then declare some sort of victory. It's dishonest as you can see by the absurd unfairness of the situations it's spawning such as me paying you interest while you cheat me out of my, ironically smaller, returns.
So long as not paying the interest makes recovering easier why don't you start erasing interest from before you locked accounts? Why not roll all the interest that's still in EBANK back to zero? The answer is because you know that constitutes stealing from your customers. Yet, it's somehow okay if you only default on the interest accrued after the bank admitted its insolvency?
If you close the bank here and now it's simply a failed venture. If you try to push forward and "recover" by screwing your customers out of months of interest then you haven't recovered at all. In fact, I utterly fail to see the point of going ahead if you don't intend to go all the way. It's questionable whether the bank will have any investors left even if it does honor all of its commitments. Surely, if it intentionally and in fact as a policy defaults on months of interest you can't expect anyone to continue supporting it and if at the end of the day no one wants a thing to do with it and is calling it a scam then why not simply liquidate now?
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Leneerra
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.12.24 11:21:00 -
[620]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
What promises have I made?
Quote:
The next announcement is due February 15th to March 1st, so expect it in April sometime.
or maybe I should just point to the one promise you do keep
Originally by: ebank TOS
Should EBANK find itself operating under special circumstances, as defined by the current Chairman of the Board, any of the above mentioned terms and conditions can/will be modified based on the needs of the EBANK organization. Those modifications may not necessarily be immediately available in the above mentioned terms and conditions due to unplanned delays in updating the Terms and Conditions section of the EBANK website. Furthermore, modifications to the Terms and Conditions made under special circumstances can be implemented retroactively (11/27/2009).
Wich basically translates in to: "I will do as I see fit, no holds barred" or "Ignore everything in the TOS above and below this statement because they do not apply anyway"
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Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
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Posted - 2009.12.24 11:30:00 -
[621]
Originally by: Kalrand
Originally by: Ray McCormack
How do you propose we pay interest considering we're still trying to recover a massive deficit?
Write down accounts to their pro rata share of the remaining assets and soldier on from there.
Their finstats don¦t include all remaining assets.
They could sell the Titan BPOs, Titan BPCs, characters, fixed assets relating to Titan copying, and their share portfolio then distribute the cash plus (some of) the seventy billion cash they¦re sitting on to depositors. That¦s close to 500 billion.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
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Posted - 2009.12.24 11:58:00 -
[622]
@Kwint
Look at it like in RL:
- Ray got *hired* to save the bank with the bank being the objective not the depositor.
This is not much different than a past Hexxx statement said when he was chairman, that is that the bank acted in its interest, not necessarily in the depositors'.
- Those who hired Ray, want to get back. Want to recover from what they feel (own words) as a backstab.
Of course this feeling:
a) Does not take into account that they probably had their share of responsibility (but hey, this is a typical human reaction, to refuse / dodge responsibility for the bad, aka the "I won / we lost" effect).
b) Does not take into account that looking at the bank as first value will have consequences later (myopia is another typical human behavior).
Or
b') Take into account the average depositor is an idiot that will easily forget any ill, with some PR, some rubber duck quacking loud enough or who knows. Dealing with idiots and leveraging on that is another widespread custom.
In any case, I think they see the bank as the objective, depositors are welcome to be helped as much as possible but are still expendable.
Furthermore there's also another logic:
Quote:
They could sell the Titan BPOs, Titan BPCs, characters, fixed assets relating to Titan copying, and their share portfolio then distribute the cash plus (some of) the seventy billion cash they¦re sitting on to depositors. That¦s close to 500 billion
is the best for the individuals.
But 500B are what? A successful 2004 player worth of wealth?
What does EvE get once they restored 1 player? That is an irrelevant bit?
By restoring an institution (notice I am impersonating logic, it's not what I think, because I could not think to even get myself in their shoes to start with) they restore something grand in EvE, something that is *relevant* and known even outside of the game.
Plus the luls of seeing the first pages of the various EvE related web sites camp the "INCREDIBLE: EBANK is back in business!!" title everywhere.
Wanna compare the inner satisfaction for the EBANK BoD at seeing that, compared to selling all and making 1 player worth of cash back and disappear in the oblivion with no noise? And no "perceived status" ego medicine?
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Breaker77
Gallente
Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.24 12:25:00 -
[623]
Originally by: Kwint Sommer
Certainly, paying the interest adds even more of a burden but it's a burden you must bear and if you can't then it's time to accept it and close the bank.
This has been said a million times. However Ray's head is too far up his own ass to see it. Recovering the ISK to pay back accounts is not enough. If you do not pay out the accumulated interest with those accounts it will still be a failure!!!
Ray has stated he doesn't want to fail. Ray has said interest is suspended. By not paying interest he is failing.
I'm thinking that YGR would be a better choice to run EBank. At least he wouldn't lie to you.
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2009.12.24 12:46:00 -
[624]
How am I lying?
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Varo Jan
Caravanserai Consulting
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Posted - 2009.12.24 12:52:00 -
[625]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Quote:
They could sell the Titan BPOs, Titan BPCs, characters, fixed assets relating to Titan copying, and their share portfolio then distribute the cash plus (some of) the seventy billion cash they¦re sitting on to depositors. That¦s close to 500 billion
is the best for the individuals.
But 500B are what? A successful 2004 player worth of wealth?
What does EvE get once they restored 1 player? That is an irrelevant bit?
Read their balance sheet. You¦ll see that 500B represents around 25% of outstanding deposits. Repaying *all* depositors 25% now is not irrelevant.
That 500B is currently tied up in under-performing or non-performing assets, generating some 2 billion per month.
They¦d still be left with the loan portfolio and the hidden riches in the ventures to return the remaining 75% plus interest owed to depositors.
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Leneerra
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.12.24 13:33:00 -
[626]
Ray,
This is where you seem tolie
Originally by:
It is our intent to see the Bank restored to full liquidity, to re-open interest accounts and ensure our long-term sustainability as the leading financial institution in EVE.
because nothing you have been able to achieve over the last 3 months has brought you a single step closer to that goal.
People do not willingly deposit their isk in an institute that tells you upfront that they will write your deposit off if you do not pay attention for a while.
They do not accept it if you selectively roll your debt over to a person that does not seem to be able to react because he is not even made aware of the originating problem let alone the situation as it is now.
They do not accept a 1 month waiting period to solve an eronous deposit, you ought to be able to enact or refuse it in a 1 week period even considering the situation the bank is in.
You cannot expect people to honor your claims to property if you effectively ignore theirs while insulting them by only pretending to honor their claims on you
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Ray McCormack
Nordar Innovations.
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Posted - 2009.12.24 13:35:00 -
[627]
Leneerra, you're just talking for the sake of the argument now. Nothing you're saying has any relevance to my presumed lies and broken promises.
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Leneerra
Minmatar
Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.12.24 13:41:00 -
[628]
I guess that is where our perception differs.
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.24 14:29:00 -
[629]
Ray,
Let me lay the situation bare for you:
EBANK and I both hold a portion of the other's debt and we both owe interest on it. Every week I pay the interest on my debt and every week you essentially tell me to go screw myself. I pay and you thumb your nose at me, denying me not just access to my money but unilaterally declaring your interest to be null and void while mine is still to be paid in full.
From my perspective EBANK is demonstrating a willful and intentional failure to meet their commitments. Not having the funds to honor withdrawals is unfortunate but understandable. Declaring you're no longer going to pay interest is not. In fact, taken in time with your continued insistence that debts to you be honored and the idea that the bank will continue to operate after returning to solvency makes this seem downright malicious. You are at best taking advantage of the situation to limit your future liability and at worst -and I would argue- downright defrauding your customers.
Returning to the point at hand, we both owe each other capital plus regular interest payments. I'm paying, you're telling me "tough luck." How do you suggest we resolve this?
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Kwint Sommer
Caldari
Deep Core Mining Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.24 14:43:00 -
[630]
Just to clarify a bit further, here's the situation I'm asking for:
I let EBANK hold several billion of my money for as long as they like with me having no control over it and in exchange I get an IOU for 3% monthly.
EBANK has in turn loaned me a couple billion via bonds which I pay them actual cash for at 4.25% monthly.
So, EBANK holds my money ransom giving me an IOU that even taken at facevalue is worth less than what I give them every month in actual cash.
This is the situation I'm trying to cajole you guys into accepting!
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