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Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
Ray McCormack
Kisoken Innovations
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Posted - 2009.11.28 17:06:00 -
[481]
Originally by: Marcus Baltar Why does your P&L include income that has not been received?
Don't interpret that as an accurate P&L, it's an indication of estimated income and started off as a cash flow statement. The fact it made it so far eventually became a decision for me to either offer what you see or nothing. Nothing is worse than something.
Originally by: Marcus Baltar Why are the ongoing (deferred) salaries not being included?
Because they haven't been finalised.
Originally by: Marcus Baltar Why does your share portfolio value the Datacore shares so high?
What should we value them at? I haven't looked at share prices since that list went public.
Originally by: Marcus Baltar Why is the loss analysis not being updated?
Because it hasn't, what does it need to be updated with?
Originally by: Marcus Baltar This is the second unilateral change in TOS that I am being forced to accept with no provision for backing out without acceptance. What is stopping you from doing it again? Anticipating your likely answer; why should I trust that you will not do it again and again?
We probably will do it again. How's that for anticipating our likely answer?
Originally by: Marcus Baltar Rhetorical question: If I knew of someone that had EBANK money (not an account in EBANK) what proof of identity would you, the EBANK BoD, provide, before its return?
I don't understand the question.
Originally by: Marcus Baltar BTW - I have not yet received an email, in-game or IRL, informing me of these new changes. As you are not letting me view my account I cannot tell you if there was a RL email address, but I am pretty sure there was.
That's because we haven't sent one yet.
Marcus, I'd be happy to do a mano-a-mano interview about my part in the secondary market if that's what you'r gunning for?
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Ray McCormack
Kisoken Innovations
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Posted - 2009.11.28 17:13:00 -
[482]
Originally by: RAW23 If you appoint me to the position of Social Responsibility Officer I will do my best to steer you right on such issues.
You would be required to work in close conjunction with various other parties responsible for their domain and your views may not always be universally accepted. How would you deal with that?
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.28 17:36:00 -
[483]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Marcus Baltar Rhetorical question: If I knew of someone that had EBANK money (not an account in EBANK) what proof of identity would you, the EBANK BoD, provide, before its return?
I don't understand the question.
I think he is asking that if he knew of someone that owed EBank ISK (loan, ect...) what information would the BoD at EBank reveal to get it paid back (API, ect...).
Could be rather interesting if EBank is forced to go through the same hurdles as everyone else in order to be paid back on it's loans.
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Ray McCormack
Kisoken Innovations
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Posted - 2009.11.28 17:39:00 -
[484]
Originally by: Breaker77 I think he is asking that if he knew of someone that owed EBank ISK (loan, ect...) what information would the BoD at EBank reveal to get it paid back (API, ect...).
I guess I'm being stupid, but I still don't understand the question?
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Tamahra
Gallente Danke fuer den Fisch
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Posted - 2009.11.28 17:43:00 -
[485]
[facepalm]
Is this idiocy still going on..... just forget about your money people. you will never ever get it back.
ok let me sum this new (apparently successfull) scam up: Scammer X promises to repay everything (some day somewhere in the future), that the victims had already thrown at him, but ONLY if they throw even more at him.
[/facepalm]
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Ji Sama
Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll
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Posted - 2009.11.28 17:51:00 -
[486]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Breaker77 I think he is asking that if he knew of someone that owed EBank ISK (loan, ect...) what information would the BoD at EBank reveal to get it paid back (API, ect...).
I guess I'm being stupid, but I still don't understand the question?
i wont understand that you dont understand why you cant understand the question
Vote Z0D For CSM
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SencneS
Rebellion Against Big Irreversible Dinks
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Posted - 2009.11.28 18:02:00 -
[487]
Edited by: SencneS on 28/11/2009 18:02:22
Originally by: Marcus Baltar Rhetorical question: If I knew of someone that had EBANK money (not an account in EBANK) what proof of identity would you, the EBANK BoD, provide, before its return?
What would you like I guess is the question? If it's a free ride from the API Requirement that will not happen.
I assume you're asking for a "finder's fee", Well like all finder's fees IF you have information which will recover ISK from defaulted loan. Then I guess EBANK may be able to make arrangements for a part of the recovered ISK to be paid as a finders fee.
Mind you, we never considered the "Rat-out" factor MD might have so we never talked about finders fees. So this is by far not solid in any way, and this type of deal would need BoD approval..
Amarr for Life |
Dzil
Caldari Waffle Investment Fund
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Posted - 2009.11.28 18:05:00 -
[488]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Breaker77 I think he is asking that if he knew of someone that owed EBank ISK (loan, ect...) what information would the BoD at EBank reveal to get it paid back (API, ect...).
I guess I'm being stupid, but I still don't understand the question?
If I understand correctly, it looks like he's asking whether ebank would give out information on its characters/accounts in order to collect on a loan.
I would assume the answer is yes... otherwise it seems silly to hold any of your debtors in contempt or default when you have failed to offer them your limited API keys to prove you aren't scammers.
Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m |
Ray McCormack
Kisoken Innovations
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Posted - 2009.11.28 18:09:00 -
[489]
Originally by: Dzil If I understand correctly, it looks like he's asking whether ebank would give out information on its characters/accounts in order to collect on a loan.
Give out information on who's characters/accounts?
This isn't being asked very succinctly in my mind. Spell it out for me, draw pictures.
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Dzil
Caldari Waffle Investment Fund
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Posted - 2009.11.28 18:25:00 -
[490]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: Dzil If I understand correctly, it looks like he's asking whether ebank would give out information on its characters/accounts in order to collect on a loan.
Give out information on who's characters/accounts?
This isn't being asked very succinctly in my mind. Spell it out for me, draw pictures.
Do you prefer PPT or MS paint?
Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m |
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Mme Pinkerton
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.11.28 18:29:00 -
[491]
Edited by: Mme Pinkerton on 28/11/2009 18:30:16
Originally by: Ray McCormack
This isn't being asked very succinctly in my mind. Spell it out for me, draw pictures.
Person A has money from EBANK (insufficiently collateralized loan). He would really, really like to pay it back to EBANK. But he has heard nasty rumors that EBANK staff & BoD consist of scammers ... and he doesn't like the thought of funding scammers
Luckily he has recently learned about the Limited API key. Having the API keys of EBANK staff/BoD would allow him to check, if they are alts of known scammers or not.
If EBANK staff & BoD members are no scammers, he can happily get rid of the EBANK ISK in his wallet. If they deny his request for the keys though, they obviously have something to hide ... and being the honest person he is, person A will just donate the ISK to EVE University.
nice picture?
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.28 18:35:00 -
[492]
Originally by: Ray McCormack Give out information on who's characters/accounts?
This isn't being asked very succinctly in my mind. Spell it out for me, draw pictures.
10/10 would read again.
I gave you the first play at it because well, the question was worded very vague.
Now go ransom some carebears to recover everyones ISK
Wait, you've already done that.
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SetrakDark
Caldari DarkCorp Technology and Finance
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Posted - 2009.11.28 18:50:00 -
[493]
How is recruitment going? It doesn't seem like you guys have a lot of people right now, not compared to the amount of work you have to do anyway.
What's the general plan for making money over the next few months? I notice ventures are up, which is good. The kind of returns you guys need are going to be hard to get from loans. Any plans to bring in a badass trader or two to put the isk to use?
Not expecting an official statement, just casually curious.
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YouGotRipped
Ewigkeit
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Posted - 2009.11.28 19:10:00 -
[494]
Originally by: SetrakDark Any plans to bring in a badass trader or two to put the isk to use?
There's only one thing that can bring about Ebank's collapse. Letting in a scammer. hahah
Black Sun Empire |
LaVista Vista
Conservative Shenanigans Party
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Posted - 2009.11.28 19:19:00 -
[495]
Originally by: YouGotRipped
Originally by: SetrakDark Any plans to bring in a badass trader or two to put the isk to use?
There's only one thing that can bring about Ebank's collapse. Letting in a scammer. hahah
Hey YGR! Where have you been?
Are you suggesting that hiring you to make ISK for EBANK is going to make it collapse?
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Ray McCormack
Kisoken Innovations
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Posted - 2009.11.28 19:27:00 -
[496]
Originally by: SetrakDark Not expecting an official statement, just casually curious.
Hey, if you want to chat look me up ingame or via email on [email protected].
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RAW23
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Posted - 2009.11.29 07:28:00 -
[497]
Originally by: Ray McCormack
Originally by: RAW23 If you appoint me to the position of Social Responsibility Officer I will do my best to steer you right on such issues.
You would be required to work in close conjunction with various other parties responsible for their domain and your views may not always be universally accepted. How would you deal with that?
I appreciate that I would not simply get to dictate EBANK's ethical policy. As to how I would react if I didn't get my own way, it would depend on the reasons provided by the other parties and the issues at hand. If decisions are made that fail to take account of the ethical dimensions of the relevant issues then I will loudly point out that these need to be considered. I will only consider an issue closed when EBANK can provide an ethical justification for its actions, which I will help formulate, even if it is not an action I would support myself (I do not consider there to be a single philosophical framework that has all the answers and I am not so arrogant to believe that any views I hold must of necessity represent the truth of things). What I will not consider acceptable is a simple statement that we will be doing X with no credible attempt to justify it from an ethical perspective at all. I would also urge the BoD to take ethical questions into account at the earliest stages of their decision making. I will not consider it to be acceptable to formulate policy first and then fit the ethics to the policy as convenient. Rather, EBANK will need to establish its own set of ethical principles which will help guide all decision making.
In extreme cases of disagreement, I might feel obliged to resign. For instance, I would lobby strongly for a reworking of the originally suggested expropriation of account balances in favour of a model along the lines of that suggested by SencneS. However, if I failed to get my way on this issue I would resign on the day that the board first carried out a direct and non-reversible theft of an account's contents (unless, of course, someone else is able to provide convincing arguments for why this should be considered an ethically legitimate act). This is because, whilst it is a practical necessity to understand that not all decisions in any institution will be in line with one's own views, I hold certain ethical principles of my own that will not allow me to remain part of an organisation that takes part in certain acts, unless someone can first convince me that my own principles are flawed or that the institutions actions do not, in fact, fall under the rubric of my principles.
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TornSoul
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.11.29 07:37:00 -
[498]
Originally by: Phoebe Halliwel
Originally by: Ray McCormack If there was a trusted third party that provided a granular level of access to the API like this we would be willing to use them as an alternative to providing us with your Limited API Key - providing certain technical conditions were met.
Is that an "if/maybe" or will Ebank actually take steps and approach people?
<snip> I don't know whether TS would want to get involved with this, but he has acquired a reputation for being a stickler for the rules (no offence intended).
Done.
Have a look at BLEEP
It works excactly like the EVE API - The only difference is the domainname (http://bleep.big-eve.com as opposed to http://api.eve-online.com)
The website itself still needs some finishing touches - But the functionality is there.
I think this should be very usefull for all those forums that requires a (Limited) EVE API key, to ascertain it's a valid EVE char signing up.
With this, people no longer need to expose more info than necessary.
I'll get a prober thread started for the service later. (I'll link it here when I get around to it)
BIG Lottery |
Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.29 07:47:00 -
[499]
Well done TS.
I would use this service to provide ebank with the automated access to my charname(s) (and corp + corphistory).
TS tends to stick to the letter of his agreements and the posted rules in ths agreement seem pretty clear, so I would trust him with my api key.
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Ray McCormack
Kisoken Innovations
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Posted - 2009.11.29 07:57:00 -
[500]
Thanks TS. However there needs to be a way for me to require the user to provide the key for all their characters and not just one.
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TornSoul
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.11.29 08:12:00 -
[501]
Added a <bleep filtered="true" /> node, that gets added to the XML if BLEEP has touched the content in anyway (ie. removed chars from the output).
If people use the BLEEP key that shows all chars, this node will *not* be present.
This way you can check if you got all character info or not.
Will this suffice, or would you prefer a different mechanism?
BIG Lottery |
Leneerra
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2009.11.29 08:16:00 -
[502]
It seems he currently offers access to all, or just one char. any key giving you 2 (or 3) chars is giving you the information you insist on.
a way to identify what type of key is handed over by the receaver, as well as many other costumization options, and a management page where you can see what keys you currently have active would be nice additions.
Then again ccp themselves have customizeble key access listed in their development backlog. Use of this proxy could show them demand for this feature and help prioretize it. But a working proxy also reduces the need to build it directly, allowing them to focus on other stuff.
will provide the filtered key (all chars) as soon you you can use them
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Ray McCormack
Kisoken Innovations
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Posted - 2009.11.29 08:20:00 -
[503]
Originally by: TornSoul Will this suffice, or would you prefer a different mechanism?
That should be fine thanks. I will code and test this afternoon with an aim to having it live this evening.
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TornSoul
BIG Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.11.29 08:28:00 -
[504]
Edited by: TornSoul on 29/11/2009 08:34:01 This may or may not be usefull info for when you plan your code:
If BLEEP is supplied with a userID and/or apikey it can't find in the BLEEP DB, those values are passed straight on to the EVE API to deal with.
This means a: That EVE API takes care of any error messages (this was the main reason for this functionality) b: That if you give BLEEP your EVE API keys (instead of BLEEP keys) then those gets passed straight on to the EVE API - and thus a valid result is still returned (i.e. just as if you had called the EVE API directly)
The consequence of b) above is that coders dont have to distinquish between EVE API keys and BLEEP keys - Simply give them to BLEEP and you'll get the correct data regardless if it's actaully an EVE API key or a BLEEP key.
Ie. in your code you don't have to test for which URL to call.
Does that (explanation) make sense...
I think it's kinda neat
May or may not be helpfull - But there it is.
EDIT : And I'm errr going to bed now, so it will be some hours before I'll be able to reply to any questions. Been up all night doing this litte thing... Took a wee bit longer than anticipated - As always
BIG Lottery |
Kaaii
Caldari KaaiiNet Holding Executor Corp
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Posted - 2009.11.29 13:43:00 -
[505]
Do I read this right?
That providing a limited api, gets your suspended account isks available to be withdrawn?
According to Oveur, existing LSAA's already anchored will stay there. kieron Director of Community Relations,
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Kapila Parthalan
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Posted - 2009.11.29 14:50:00 -
[506]
Originally by: LaVista Vista So here is me wondering:
Say that the API allowed you to create a key that ONLY allowed to pull the names of the characters on an account. Would it be acceptable if EBANK requested that?
I think that this is acceptable. It is much better than providing access to all the limited API information.
Thanks TS for the BLEEP service; this seems to be exactly what is needed.
Originally by: Ray McCormack The Board will draft the final API policy this weekend and release it next week sometime. It'll be no different to what has already been stated, however this will be an official, unambiguous version clearly outlined in our TOS.
I eagerly await this information. Has your stance on the API changed now? Will you only require access to the character names and allow us to use a service like BLEEP to limit access?
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Jovialmadness
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Posted - 2009.11.29 15:19:00 -
[507]
I highly recommend all affected parties pool together isk and hire multiple mercs to deal with this situation.
Your isk is gone and ray/ebank leadership is merely keeping it open to pull off the final master stroke.
This is Germany, January 1945. If you can't see it then just keep doing what you are doing..hoping and let Berlin, April 1945 happen.
jovial
Quote: As a side note, i liken capacitor to blood. Without blood, nothing can function in the body. I do NOT like being a race that bleeds quicker than anyone else. yes, i am an alt..Jovial Quote:
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Breaker77
Gallente Reclamation Industries
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Posted - 2009.11.29 15:33:00 -
[508]
Originally by: Jovialmadness I highly recommend all affected parties pool together isk and hire multiple mercs to deal with this situation.
Wardecing characters that never undock is like trying to walk through a wall with no openings. Yeah you can do it, but it's really stupid as you will never acomplish anything.
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Marcus Baltar
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Posted - 2009.11.29 15:43:00 -
[509]
Originally by: Kapila Parthalan
Originally by: Ray McCormack The Board will draft the final API policy this weekend and release it next week sometime. It'll be no different to what has already been stated, however this will be an official, unambiguous version clearly outlined in our TOS.
I eagerly await this information. Has your stance on the API changed now? Will you only require access to the character names and allow us to use a service like BLEEP to limit access?
I would be willing to use BLEEP if it was acceptable.
However, my balance was stuck in "pending withdrawals" which means I cannot do anything with it until you release it so nothing would have changed except I could again see how much money you are withholding.
Fixed the links from this post;
Mme Pinkerton had the best idea of what I meant by the rhetorical question (although I would put the ISK on an alt and biomass them and it). Which leads to an interesting question - as soon as the first ISK is seized from a legitimate account that has not supplied an API (refusal, absence, whatever reason) does that mean that all EBANK staff and account holders need to be added to the Thieves of EVE list? --
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Catarrh Ague
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Posted - 2009.11.29 15:58:00 -
[510]
AC 155,
While I appreciate your offer to apply to work for EBANK, I don't believe that my moral standards can be lowered enough to countenance: unilateral changes to terms of service, freezing of accounts, and subsequent ransoming of viewing access (let alone withdrawal rights) through the demand of an API key.
I echo Leneerra's point, it's not that the T&C is outdated, it's that you guys keep moving the goalposts.
Ray,
Your stated purpose is to restore EBANK. Would it be more accurate to say that you wish EVE to have a trustworthy financial institution? That strikes me as a higher, more worthy (and achievable) goal, as compared to chasing lost ISK (which, as many have noted, is only internets moneys).
If you agree, don't you believe that closing down EBANK as gracefully as possible and starting a new institution, informed by the lessons learned from EBANK, would be a better way to achieve the goal? The lack of trust in EBANK seems to be an insurmountable obstacle to making any bank sporting the EBANK name a going concern.
Best regards, Catarrh
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