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Beware of overpowered lasers tech2

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SaorAlba	Posted - 2004.11.10 01:59:00 - [61] Edited by: SaorAlba on 10/11/2004 02:02:54 Edited by: SaorAlba on 10/11/2004 02:02:36 Ah,another lets nerf the Amarrians post again. Listen up punkhead. Our race is at the root of the Eve story line. We took the gunnery willpower to perception blow. For months lasers were srewed. Ah, you all forgot allready.. Please stick you head in your ar.. and move on. Every race has his advantage and you start fu... live with it. End of transmissing now all move on, topic closed.
SaorAlba	Posted - 2004.11.10 01:59:00 - [62] Edited by: SaorAlba on 10/11/2004 02:02:54 Edited by: SaorAlba on 10/11/2004 02:02:36 Ah,another lets nerf the Amarrians post again. Listen up punkhead. Our race is at the root of the Eve story line. We took the gunnery willpower to perception blow. For months lasers were srewed. Ah, you all forgot allready.. Please stick you head in your ar.. and move on. Every race has his advantage and you start fu... live with it. End of transmissing now all move on, topic closed.
Malken	Posted - 2004.11.10 02:09:00 - [63] i get the feeling that he has been training veldspar processing to L6 instead of his combat skills Originally by: Graelyn "We're at war with you, and you FIRED on us! I am so telling CONCORD!" Quote: [18:46:36] Weebear > WTS Electric Golf Cart, 1 careful owner. Phone Rome 555 6567
Malken	Posted - 2004.11.10 02:09:00 - [64] i get the feeling that he has been training veldspar processing to L6 instead of his combat skills Originally by: Graelyn "We're at war with you, and you FIRED on us! I am so telling CONCORD!" Quote: [18:46:36] Weebear > WTS Electric Golf Cart, 1 careful owner. Phone Rome 555 6567
Dethra	Posted - 2004.11.10 02:39:00 - [65] I think in order to decide which is better, you have to know EVERYTHING. So putting aside variables, such as build costs, let's compare: -Ammunition needed to fire hybrids/projectiles are cheap -Ammunition (crystals) needed to fire lasers are expensive -Ammunition for hybrids/projectiles is a one use dael -Ammunition for lasers is an infinite use deal -over time, ammunition for hybrids/projectiles costs more than lasers -over time, crystals are easier to maintain/use now, points to be brought to light: -an average laser user has several full sets of crystals, you say. --A crystal is like an ammunition type Multrifrequency crystals = EMP for projectiles, Antimatter for hybrids. -Lasers use far more cap per shot than projectiles/hybrids. --Your point is? The ships that have bonuses for lasers also have a far larger cap, and also have bonuses for lowering cap used per shot/cap recharge rate. -I'd like to see an apoc use all 8 lasers AS WELL AS armor reps/MWDs/other stuff indefinitely like caldari/gallente/minmatr ships. --A minmatar/caldari/gallente ship using lasers wouldn't be able to use all that stuff indefinitely easier, just as an amarr ship could use all that stuff and more indefinitely if that ship fittted hybrid/projectile weapons. Now, the advantages/disadvantages of each: crystals: -Disadvantages: -expensive -usually have several full sets (more expensive) -Advantages: -infinite use Projectiles/Hybrids: -Disadvantages: -one use deal -must carry a large amount or reload every fight (NPC or otherwise) -is a pain to haul to ships/areas in 0.0 space -must build/buy every so often -Advantages: -Cheap Ok, so comparing those, it seems crystals actually come out on top, based on the fact that ammo costs more over a long period of time. This means, that is T2 crystals don't have some downside, they will ultimately be the obviously advantageous/easier/better choice. So to balance them out, T2 projectile/hybrid ammunition needs to be really really good, or at least better than T2 crystals, or T2 crystals have to be very very expensive/very hard to build/very rare/or limited uses. I think I got everything, can't be sure though _______________________________ SF-C recruitment
Dethra	Posted - 2004.11.10 02:39:00 - [66] I think in order to decide which is better, you have to know EVERYTHING. So putting aside variables, such as build costs, let's compare: -Ammunition needed to fire hybrids/projectiles are cheap -Ammunition (crystals) needed to fire lasers are expensive -Ammunition for hybrids/projectiles is a one use dael -Ammunition for lasers is an infinite use deal -over time, ammunition for hybrids/projectiles costs more than lasers -over time, crystals are easier to maintain/use now, points to be brought to light: -an average laser user has several full sets of crystals, you say. --A crystal is like an ammunition type Multrifrequency crystals = EMP for projectiles, Antimatter for hybrids. -Lasers use far more cap per shot than projectiles/hybrids. --Your point is? The ships that have bonuses for lasers also have a far larger cap, and also have bonuses for lowering cap used per shot/cap recharge rate. -I'd like to see an apoc use all 8 lasers AS WELL AS armor reps/MWDs/other stuff indefinitely like caldari/gallente/minmatr ships. --A minmatar/caldari/gallente ship using lasers wouldn't be able to use all that stuff indefinitely easier, just as an amarr ship could use all that stuff and more indefinitely if that ship fittted hybrid/projectile weapons. Now, the advantages/disadvantages of each: crystals: -Disadvantages: -expensive -usually have several full sets (more expensive) -Advantages: -infinite use Projectiles/Hybrids: -Disadvantages: -one use deal -must carry a large amount or reload every fight (NPC or otherwise) -is a pain to haul to ships/areas in 0.0 space -must build/buy every so often -Advantages: -Cheap Ok, so comparing those, it seems crystals actually come out on top, based on the fact that ammo costs more over a long period of time. This means, that is T2 crystals don't have some downside, they will ultimately be the obviously advantageous/easier/better choice. So to balance them out, T2 projectile/hybrid ammunition needs to be really really good, or at least better than T2 crystals, or T2 crystals have to be very very expensive/very hard to build/very rare/or limited uses. I think I got everything, can't be sure though _______________________________ SF-C recruitment
Hamatitio	Posted - 2004.11.10 02:44:00 - [67] Edited by: Hamatitio on 10/11/2004 02:50:34 Looking at prices of tech1 tech 2 items. -------- Light Neutron : 40,000 Light Neutron2 : 3,000,000 -------- Thats 75 times more. -------- Now: Antimatter L : 100 Multifrequency: 200,000 -------- So in respect: Antimatter L 2 : 7500 Multifrequency L2 : 15,000,000 -------- Examining this: Tech1: 2000 rounds of Antimatter:L2 to MultiFrequency:L2 Tech2: 2000 rounds of Antimatter:L2 to MultiFrequency:L2 -- Director of Ganking: Death Row Inc.
Hamatitio	Posted - 2004.11.10 02:44:00 - [68] Edited by: Hamatitio on 10/11/2004 02:50:34 Looking at prices of tech1 tech 2 items. -------- Light Neutron : 40,000 Light Neutron2 : 3,000,000 -------- Thats 75 times more. -------- Now: Antimatter L : 100 Multifrequency: 200,000 -------- So in respect: Antimatter L 2 : 7500 Multifrequency L2 : 15,000,000 -------- Examining this: Tech1: 2000 rounds of Antimatter:L2 to MultiFrequency:L2 Tech2: 2000 rounds of Antimatter:L2 to MultiFrequency:L2 -- Director of Ganking: Death Row Inc.
CyberRaver	Posted - 2004.11.10 05:35:00 - [69] heres a small tip, STOP whining and do what everyone else in eve has done TRAIN FOR AN APOC, i know i did and for npc hunting its great, but for pvp ill always use gallente ships. Problem solved, just be come multi racial and no nerfing will affect you
CyberRaver	Posted - 2004.11.10 05:35:00 - [70] heres a small tip, STOP whining and do what everyone else in eve has done TRAIN FOR AN APOC, i know i did and for npc hunting its great, but for pvp ill always use gallente ships. Problem solved, just be come multi racial and no nerfing will affect you
Golgrath	Posted - 2004.11.10 05:52:00 - [71] Earthan how do you know tech2 ammo requires t2 components to build?
Golgrath	Posted - 2004.11.10 05:52:00 - [72] Earthan how do you know tech2 ammo requires t2 components to build?
Lygos	Posted - 2004.11.10 05:58:00 - [73] Edited by: Lygos on 10/11/2004 06:02:00 Surely you don't want the most high end combat abilities to be easilly affordable? Wait am I off topic? Meh. Blame the market volume. Combat is too cheap to set up for, and way way too cheap to sustain as it is. Only the soft target maintainers are deserving of "innexpensive" elite tech2 munitions anyway.
Lygos	Posted - 2004.11.10 05:58:00 - [74] Edited by: Lygos on 10/11/2004 06:02:00 Surely you don't want the most high end combat abilities to be easilly affordable? Wait am I off topic? Meh. Blame the market volume. Combat is too cheap to set up for, and way way too cheap to sustain as it is. Only the soft target maintainers are deserving of "innexpensive" elite tech2 munitions anyway.
Severus Trajan	Posted - 2004.11.10 07:22:00 - [75] Originally by: Earthan Tell me why the lasers wich are supposed to be oldest technology guns Ya know, that thing has always seemed odd to me. How can lasers be considered older weapons than cannons, artillery and missiles anyway?
Severus Trajan	Posted - 2004.11.10 07:22:00 - [76] Originally by: Earthan Tell me why the lasers wich are supposed to be oldest technology guns Ya know, that thing has always seemed odd to me. How can lasers be considered older weapons than cannons, artillery and missiles anyway?
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.11.10 07:59:00 - [77] Projectiles, lasers, then hybrids, that would be the chronological order. I'm sure the tech II lasers will take their fair share of cap and settle the score, at least after being banged up good with that nerfbat. Convert Stations
Danton Marcellus	Posted - 2004.11.10 07:59:00 - [78] Projectiles, lasers, then hybrids, that would be the chronological order. I'm sure the tech II lasers will take their fair share of cap and settle the score, at least after being banged up good with that nerfbat. Convert Stations
Fuse	Posted - 2004.11.10 08:17:00 - [79] No one is stopping you from training the tech 2 lasers. This game has choices. The same non-logical approach could be applied to the Gallente Iteron Mark Vs. Give me a break just train for it no one will stop you. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
Fuse	Posted - 2004.11.10 08:17:00 - [80] No one is stopping you from training the tech 2 lasers. This game has choices. The same non-logical approach could be applied to the Gallente Iteron Mark Vs. Give me a break just train for it no one will stop you. 0.o It's not you... no wait it is you.
Aneu Angellus	Posted - 2004.11.10 08:22:00 - [81] Originally by: StinkFinger Originally by: Noriath Edited by: Noriath on 10/11/2004 00:48:31 Somehow the argument that lasers use a lot of cap is not very good because all ships that use lasers have insane caps, which means they aren't affected that much by it. In fact, one of the things that people generally will tell you about their Apocs is that they can fire 8 lasers and run 2 armor repairers for pretty much as long as they want while still having an mwd... He said 'while still HAVING an MWD' not 'WHILE RUNNING AN MWD'. MWD = 25% cap loss is what he meant. If you can show me an apoc pilot who can run a mwd, fire 8 lasers and run 2 large armor repairers for as long as they want, I'll get on my knees and service you and your friends. ________________ Aneu Angellus Vengeance Of The Fallen - WolfPack Military Captain
Aneu Angellus	Posted - 2004.11.10 08:22:00 - [82] Originally by: StinkFinger Originally by: Noriath Edited by: Noriath on 10/11/2004 00:48:31 Somehow the argument that lasers use a lot of cap is not very good because all ships that use lasers have insane caps, which means they aren't affected that much by it. In fact, one of the things that people generally will tell you about their Apocs is that they can fire 8 lasers and run 2 armor repairers for pretty much as long as they want while still having an mwd... He said 'while still HAVING an MWD' not 'WHILE RUNNING AN MWD'. MWD = 25% cap loss is what he meant. If you can show me an apoc pilot who can run a mwd, fire 8 lasers and run 2 large armor repairers for as long as they want, I'll get on my knees and service you and your friends. ________________ Aneu Angellus Vengeance Of The Fallen - WolfPack Military Captain
Synex	Posted - 2004.11.10 08:22:00 - [83] Originally by: Ranger 1 I think that wisdom would dictate waiting until we can actually test the new tech 2 ammo before having kittens. I think we should have the kittens now and then test the new tech 2 ammo on them.
Synex	Posted - 2004.11.10 08:22:00 - [84] Originally by: Ranger 1 I think that wisdom would dictate waiting until we can actually test the new tech 2 ammo before having kittens. I think we should have the kittens now and then test the new tech 2 ammo on them.
Nerhtal Al'Thali	Posted - 2004.11.10 08:26:00 - [85] If i have to pay 5mil for every 100 shots on my crystals, you can sure as hell bet my apoc will never see the light of cold space again. ***est idea, if its say 1000 shots - and repairable at dock for an insignificant cost (10-20k isk) sure i might still use them. Always keep a rack of infinite-T1 crystals with me though (assuming they dont get hit either) just in case :) "Game Experience And Dev Opinions May Change With The Time Of Day During Online Play" Oveur "First in, last out" Bridgeburner Motto
Nerhtal Al'Thali	Posted - 2004.11.10 08:26:00 - [86] If i have to pay 5mil for every 100 shots on my crystals, you can sure as hell bet my apoc will never see the light of cold space again. ***est idea, if its say 1000 shots - and repairable at dock for an insignificant cost (10-20k isk) sure i might still use them. Always keep a rack of infinite-T1 crystals with me though (assuming they dont get hit either) just in case :) "Game Experience And Dev Opinions May Change With The Time Of Day During Online Play" Oveur "First in, last out" Bridgeburner Motto
Aneu Angellus	Posted - 2004.11.10 08:29:00 - [87] Tech II Crystals should have atleast double the cap req than T I Lasers. Also from what iv heard there will be the ability to 'overheat' lasers which means they will do EVEN MORE damage than they do now! This is pathetic, 1400s suck while lasers are getting boost after boost after boost. Aneu ________________ Aneu Angellus Vengeance Of The Fallen - WolfPack Military Captain
Aneu Angellus	Posted - 2004.11.10 08:29:00 - [88] Tech II Crystals should have atleast double the cap req than T I Lasers. Also from what iv heard there will be the ability to 'overheat' lasers which means they will do EVEN MORE damage than they do now! This is pathetic, 1400s suck while lasers are getting boost after boost after boost. Aneu ________________ Aneu Angellus Vengeance Of The Fallen - WolfPack Military Captain
Iratus Caelestis	Posted - 2004.11.10 08:57:00 - [89] Heat is a tech level 3 attribute.
Iratus Caelestis	Posted - 2004.11.10 08:57:00 - [90] Heat is a tech level 3 attribute.

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