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Herberta
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Posted - 2009.12.01 12:48:00 -
[1]
In terms of ISK, what is the most profitable? 0.0 ratting or lvl 4's?
I rat in relatively safe systems in 0.0 with 1m - 1.4m bounty rats.
I would do missions for lvl 4 Q-18 in 0.5 system.
Peace
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NoNah
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Posted - 2009.12.01 13:11:00 -
[2]
A good secure -1.0 with logistics established and a ship made for it will be much better than empire level 4's. The only thing that could compete was FW-missions, but with dominion that will change aswell.
Level, quality and sec status is really quite irrelevant compared to other factors such as what kind of space he is in, what the LP store looks like and how well aligned you are with the rats in the system and/or the missions. If you'd be sharing your 0.0 system, the incomes drastically drop.
Parrots, commence!
Postcount: 139588
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Koen L
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Posted - 2009.12.01 13:18:00 -
[3]
IMHO:
With missions you will get some loyality points and you are pretty safe, just dont underestimate yourself, because i even was able to loose an expensive fitted Marauder during a level IV mission.
But this was really because i become too lazy after a while to do the necessary actions.
Its quite boring, to do the same missions again and again and again (yet another Damsel in mistress - if you know what i mean), but doing missions is still the most profitable job you can do in high sec, if you are a carebear.
With worlds collide or other good missions you will get about 10 - 20 mill isk per Mission, if you loot all and get all the salvage and later build rigs from it and sell it, then maybe a bit more.
But all this will cost you a lot of extra time.
Ratting in 0.0 with fat rats with 1 mill + bonus is way more profitable. You refine the loot, if you even care about it and have a fat income if your corp taxes are low. If you have a chain you will even have here and there some fat spawns with huge amounts of minerals or some nice faction loot.
It might also be boring after a while but i think its 10x or more profitable then working in HighSec only.
Only doing this in 0.0 is a bit more risky, if you are not in a relative safe system, this is type of luxus i would like to have.
With this you can make >> 100 mill a day easily, you will never have this income with doing high sec level IV Missions.
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Loxatl Deathsquad
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Posted - 2009.12.01 13:29:00 -
[4]
dont know what the aobve posters are smoking but lvl 4 missions are way more profitable than ratting in o.o.
lvl 4 missions are easy (esp when you know how to handle them) with LP plus looting and salvage you can easily get 30-40 mill per hour.
in 0.0 you have to watch for neuts and reds entering system or sharing npcs with blues. often time enemies will be long time in your space and you cannot rat or likely you get popped, plus you must look at overview all the time and elave roids as soon as unknown enters system as they can scan you down in under 5 secs if they know what you doing and then you dead.
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Herberta
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Posted - 2009.12.01 13:58:00 -
[5]
 Originally by: Loxatl Deathsquad
easily get 30-40 mill per hour.
Highly exaggerated?
I've heard people saying they make around 20m/hour. And that's when they're dualboxing with alts.
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FT Diomedes
Gallente
Factio Paucorum
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Posted - 2009.12.01 14:14:00 -
[6]
When I lived in the drones region, my corp had exclusive use of a deadend, -.9 truesec system with 19 belts. When I had the time, I dual boxed that system with a Paladin and a Vargur. Including the initial spawn clearing to get rid of the bad spawns, I generally cleared 2 billion ISK worth of alloys in a sixteen hour session. Because it was a dead end system hostiles rarely visited there. Just in case they did, we kept 4 large T2 bubbles on the gate. In the months we were there, none of us even came close to losing a ratting ship. Those were some good times...
Since then I've also ratted in Delve. While not as lucrative, and more crowded, it's excellent ratting there as well.
I've also run thousands of Level 4 missions, and while the income is decent if you utilize the LP store properly, it is not nearly as profitable as 0.0 ratting.
...this doesn't even seem to be a regular case of rats fleeing the sinking ship. Seems more like the rats are on fire, the ship is on fire, and the sea is full of drunk Russians. - Jacob Etienne |
jakejekel
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Posted - 2009.12.01 14:20:00 -
[7]
Edited by: jakejekel on 01/12/2009 14:21:30
i make an average of 20 mil per mission, salvage and loot included. and that is running them in a drake with 4 t1 drones and with only 1 character running. i don't know what that rounds out to in isk/hour but it allows me to pay for 2 accounts using plexes.
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GGjita
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Posted - 2009.12.01 14:30:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Herberta
Originally by: Loxatl Deathsquad
easily get 30-40 mill per hour.
Highly exaggerated?
I've heard people saying they make around 20m/hour. And that's when they're dualboxing with alts.
That is not exaggerated at all. Any properly fit gank BS should be able to do 30+ mil/hr.
Personally i bounce around between 55-60 mil/hr but that is in a pimped out Golem just blitzing missions for LP and cherry picking the BS wrecks loot/salvage.
Even if it is possible to make more isk/hr in 0.0 there are so many outside factors that can impair your isk/hr that it is not always guaranteed isk. There are defiantly ways in eve to make more isk than L4's, but when it comes to a steady reliable practically risk free source of income L4's are hard to beat.
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Lilan Kahn
Amarr
The Littlest Hobos
Ushra'Khan
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Posted - 2009.12.01 15:32:00 -
[9]
sitting at 30m isk hour in bountys doing anoms in 0.0, salvage + loot is another 10-40m varriers alot.
this is useing a ishtar with the comeing of dominion and permanent number of anoms in a system i woudnt be surpriced to see a maruader abel to sustain over 60m isk hour
"Bringing Content to you 1 round of ammo at a time" |
Dave Meltdown
Capital Construction Inc.
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Posted - 2009.12.01 15:47:00 -
[10]
loool can people pls tell me where i can find -1 and loads of -0.8 true sec systems that u dont have to share... i cant get over the 15-20m per hour in the systems i live in and there are only 3 systems in the whole region where i can find -0.8 true sec systems and they all have stations in them.....
And drone ratting is another story... theres a reson why it isnt worth mining anymore..
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Wet Ferret
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Posted - 2009.12.01 16:51:00 -
[11]
Edited by: Wet Ferret on 01/12/2009 16:51:33
Ratting is good isk, the ones who say otherwise are those who don't want competition. Find a system with a lot of belts and at least 500k bs spawns and you're gold. Most people won't touch anything less than 1m so it shouldn't be hard to find a quiet place. 30m an hour is easy in a gank BC.
That said missions are generally better. The thing about missions is that your pay increases as your skills increase, where ratting is limited by the respawn rate of what you're shooting at. It's easier to rat the best rats in the game (can be done in a named fit BS easily) but you can keep improving your skills/mods and pull more and more ISK out of missioning because faster killing speed translates into more ISK/hour.
But bottom line, if you have access to any decent ratting there's no reason you shouldn't do it until you can really start pimping out your ships.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started. |
Babel
Boom and Bust Economics Ltd.
Naraka.
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Posted - 2009.12.01 17:49:00 -
[12]
The correct answer =
Do a week ratting in yr 0.0 system - write down on a piece of paper how much you make
Do a week running missions for your agents - also write down how much
The biggest number of the two will answer your question exactly tailored to your playstyle and situation :)
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"Out of the good of evil born, Came Uriel's voice of cherub scorn" |
Toxif
Minmatar
Hmmzor.
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Posted - 2009.12.01 17:58:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Babel
The correct answer =
Do a week ratting in yr 0.0 system - write down on a piece of paper how much you make
Do a week running missions for your agents - also write down how much
The biggest number of the two will answer your question exactly tailored to your playstyle and situation :)
This. Don't look at theoretical numbers, look at your own performance.
_ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _
Mac user :D |
Babel
Boom and Bust Economics Ltd.
Naraka.
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:09:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Toxif
This. Don't look at theoretical numbers, look at your own performance.
Careful Toxif, the spreadsheet warriors are building a pyre !  .. RUN !
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"Out of the good of evil born, Came Uriel's voice of cherub scorn" |
Herberta
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Posted - 2009.12.01 18:21:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Toxif
Originally by: Babel
The correct answer =
Do a week ratting in yr 0.0 system - write down on a piece of paper how much you make
Do a week running missions for your agents - also write down how much
The biggest number of the two will answer your question exactly tailored to your playstyle and situation :)
This. Don't look at theoretical numbers, look at your own performance.
Well, having to grind first sec status from -6.5 and after that grind corp standings to 6, i'd rather just ask here tbh 
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Toxif
Minmatar
Hmmzor.
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Posted - 2009.12.01 21:21:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Herberta
Well, having to grind first sec status from -6.5 and after that grind corp standings to 6, i'd rather just ask here tbh
I hear nullsec ratting is an excellent way to farm up your sec status ;)
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Mac user :D |
Herberta
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Posted - 2009.12.01 21:22:00 -
[17]
hehe true. i might give it a try.
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Exitar Stormscion
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Posted - 2009.12.01 21:32:00 -
[18]
Ratting if done properly produces far more isk then lvl4s.
Mortal in body
Eternal in will. |
Mangold
Einherjar Rising
Cry Havoc.
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Posted - 2009.12.01 21:45:00 -
[19]
Ratting in 0.0 gives more isk per hour if you have easy access to empire to unload loot.
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cho0li0
Gallente
Garoun Investment Bank
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Posted - 2009.12.01 22:08:00 -
[20]
Remember that now in NPC corporation you will have 11% tax! 
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Herberta
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Posted - 2009.12.01 22:23:00 -
[21]
Originally by: cho0li0
Remember that now in NPC corporation you will have 11% tax!
greedy ****ers 
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Mr Turnip
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Posted - 2009.12.02 01:19:00 -
[22]
as far as i'm concerned too much if's in ratting...
If the system is good If the beltsrats are nice If the're no reds if you got easy acces to empire if you got no reds showing up....
missions anytime... no if's
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Davos Vaughn
Gallente
GSZ
Magnum Opus.
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Posted - 2009.12.02 09:00:00 -
[23]
Edited by: Davos Vaughn on 02/12/2009 09:03:39
Edited by: Davos Vaughn on 02/12/2009 09:02:51
Ok, I've actually done what the posters above describe: run missions and rat in null-sec. The income from running missions is decent, but painfully boring. Ratting in "bad" parts of 0.0 like Providence easily yields a few million an hour, even in a low skill-point toon in a BC.
The Sansha spawns that I rat in "bad" null-sec have bounties of 500k to 1.1m and drop 1600m plates, Mega beam turrets, etc. I fill up after visiting 2-3 belts and come home with 1.5m in bounties and 1m or so in loot. This takes 20-30 minutes. I can make 4-6m in profit every hour ratting casually in the WORST parts of 0.0 space. In Curse, Stain, etc., you can find commander spawns and other stuff that blows this out of the water. The only problem is operating a large ship like a BC in null-sec without losing it too often, but if you do some research and scout the right place you can find some good options.
If you even bother to explore, the Mag sites and the like can yield hundreds of millions in ISK. I've run mag sites that drop 100 armor plates at 200k ISK each in the current market.
What mission is going to compete with this for a young player, especially if you have to grind standings for weeks to get to Level 4s?
You can even combine the two approaches and run Level 4 missions for Pirate NPC factions. That's fun, if you don't mind giving up on Empire for awhile.
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hellcane
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Posted - 2009.12.02 16:21:00 -
[24]
Originally by: GGjita
Originally by: Herberta
Originally by: Loxatl Deathsquad
easily get 30-40 mill per hour.
Highly exaggerated?
I've heard people saying they make around 20m/hour. And that's when they're dualboxing with alts.
That is not exaggerated at all. Any properly fit gank BS should be able to do 30+ mil/hr.
Personally i bounce around between 55-60 mil/hr but that is in a pimped out Golem just blitzing missions for LP and cherry picking the BS wrecks loot/salvage.
Even if it is possible to make more isk/hr in 0.0 there are so many outside factors that can impair your isk/hr that it is not always guaranteed isk. There are defiantly ways in eve to make more isk than L4's, but when it comes to a steady reliable practically risk free source of income L4's are hard to beat.
Posting on an alt, check.
Posting random isk numbers, check.
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kukumakaka
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Posted - 2009.12.02 18:40:00 -
[25]
Edited by: kukumakaka on 02/12/2009 18:45:21
My only character is 4 month old, and I afk'ed 2 month and trained learning skills only during that.
I have 1.3m sp in drones, 1m or so in shield related engneering, 1m in missiles (with cruise missile at 4) and Caldari BS at 4.
I run missions in my CNR with full faction damage mods and a relatively cheap complex shield booster(Gist large B).
I change hardeners for each mission, and sometimes need to quick check mission reports for details.
When I do missions, my wallet balance increases >20m/hr on average.
I don't salvage most of my missions, but I try to tractor as many wrecks as possible when I shoot at stuffs and pretty much always come back home with full cargo hold.
I've never been ratting before, but if it nets that much as missions I'll switch to it for sure 
Edit: I'm training towards a golem, with everything else aside, that cargo hold is too sexy to resist(thinking about all the tasty loots I have to leave behind in my CNR)
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Rutroh
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Posted - 2009.12.02 19:04:00 -
[26]
What level missions are you running to make 20 million per hour?
My character is not very old and i have about 2 million SP but I can only run level 1 missions so far. I have been working on the same corp forever and it's barely moving. I am lucky if I make 3 million per hour!
How did you jump up so fast?
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kukumakaka
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Posted - 2009.12.02 19:15:00 -
[27]
Originally by: Rutroh
What level missions are you running to make 20 million per hour?
My character is not very old and i have about 2 million SP but I can only run level 1 missions so far. I have been working on the same corp forever and it's barely moving. I am lucky if I make 3 million per hour!
How did you jump up so fast?
I work for a level 4 quality 18 agent in a 0.5 system
I think I started doing level 4's at 5.5m sp in a raven(that includes 1.7m learning skill,so you can start a lot earlier if you trained for pve skills only), doable but slow. Once I got into a faction fit CNR 20m/h is really not hard. With good missions I can get 30~40m/hr.
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Manu Hermanus
FaDoyToy
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Posted - 2009.12.02 19:41:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Rutroh
What level missions are you running to make 20 million per hour?
My character is not very old and i have about 2 million SP but I can only run level 1 missions so far. I have been working on the same corp forever and it's barely moving. I am lucky if I make 3 million per hour!
How did you jump up so fast?
note that he said 20mil/hour in liquid isk. you also get lp and loot.
I did a worlds collide a while back, had a 16mil bounty payout (that is 16mil in 20 mins) although note that that includes a bit of travel time. a 3mil reward+bonus, and another bounty payout for 4mil. also I got 5 or 6k lp. didn't bother looting or salvaging though. was mostly just blitzing missions for some sec status, even though wc doesn't give any, and said eh I could use the 30mil.
ge/ae give similar payouts.
I don't really mind faction/drone missions, as I usually run a marauder and can loot/salvage on the fly. obviously wont see the wallet go up too much, but the drone missions are either pretty quick to run, or give good loot, and the faction missions give good loot (especially some of the tags). so it is nice to sell the tags, or trade in for lp store goods (keep in mind just because you looted them the tags aren't free)
You're posting again!? Has it really been 5 mins?
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Arikenya
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Posted - 2009.12.02 20:03:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Rutroh
What level missions are you running to make 20 million per hour?
My character is not very old and i have about 2 million SP but I can only run level 1 missions so far. I have been working on the same corp forever and it's barely moving. I am lucky if I make 3 million per hour!
How did you jump up so fast?
Train Social and Connections if you haven't already. Fast Talk will help with repairing your security status.
Ratting can make you excellent money, but there's a lot that goes into making it profitable. You need to groom your belts and chain them properly or else you'll be stuck getting mediocre spawns. You also need to watch local like a hawk since a hostile or neutral can come along and ruin your day. This is assuming that you also don't have to share with other ratters.
The biggest advantages of L4 missions aren't necessarily raw ISK per hour, but that you can do it in the relative safety of high sec and they're available on demand; no sharing required. You're less likely to lose your faction-fitted Golem in Motsu than you are in 0.0.
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MIRKINZ
Caldari
DEATHFUNK
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.02 21:17:00 -
[30]
Lvl 4s, Lvl 4s, Lvl 4's!
It may be true you get the chance for factions spawns ratting in 0.0, but it happens so infrequently(even in -1.0)and even when it does happen, you still have slim chance for that fat faction loot.
Also having to find a system no one is in with tru sec and lots of belts usually mean you are far from your hub and in a higher danger of being discovered.
Overall LvL4's are more cosistent with more $$/per day. I can tell you that if dominion allowed agents in your space, everyone would take it.
its true plexes can make you more isk with the good drops over time, but you cant just go out and start plexing for that 1hr you have to play, you have to spend a good amount of time probing many systems down.
After all considerations LvL 4's leave you with more isk at teh end of the day when compared to belt ratting. plexes give you the chance for more(just do to billion isk X-type/Officer Drops)but take sometime for good loot.
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Koh
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Posted - 2009.12.02 22:19:00 -
[31]
In the past (on another character) I've spent a lot of time in null sec PvPing and ratting (to pay for the pew pew). There's more to consider than just the number of belts and true sec.
First, if you're in null sec space ratting then you either are part of an corp or alliance that owns or rents the space. If your corp or alliance owns the space, then you will quite possibly be interrupted by an incursion into your space from hostiles. If you rent and have to pay that out of your pocket, you'll need to take that off the top of your earnings.
If you're frequently interrupted, you aren't making much per hour. Depending on the scale of the interruption (do you stop for a bit and then continue or do you fly back to your hub and get in your PvP ship?), you could be occupied for several hours. If you mess up and get caught by aforementioned hostiles, you have to take the cost of your ship (less insurance, I should hope) off the top of your earnings as well.
Second, if you're in a corp or alliance in this space you will have to compete with everyone else for time in the belts. Even two people ratting in a system can empty the belts quickly. Then your hour is eaten up warping through the belts. This is even worse in rented space where a small set of systems are shared amongst potentially multiple corps. If you're hoping for sweet faction loot, good luck, because you're competing with everyone else for that same, ultra rare, loot. Chances are, you won't get any.
Contrast this with level 4 mission running where you are not interrupted, are unlikely to lose ships (especially if your missions are in high-sec), and have LP points you can spend on stuff you can then turn around and sell for a ton of isk. It seems to me that level 4 missions might be more profitable in the long run. And less of a headache to boot.
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Dacryphile
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Posted - 2009.12.03 04:35:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Herberta
Originally by: Loxatl Deathsquad
easily get 30-40 mill per hour.
Highly exaggerated?
I've heard people saying they make around 20m/hour. And that's when they're dualboxing with alts.
I make between 20-25M/hour in bounties alone. My best hour ever was just shy of 35M in bounties, but that was a rare run of 4 awesome missions all in the same system.
I have a salvage alt that I will fire up if the loot or salvage is worth it, but duel boxing slows the MR down a bit and I make less bounty/hour. I'm not sure how much I make off loot/salvage as I horde it all and then sort out the meta 4s and refine the rest. It usually brings me in 150M or so, but I don't keep track of how long I collect it so I can't really report the income like I can bounties.
As for LP, I have a hardwire picked out to spend them on, but it is far from the 3000isk/lp that some people get.
Originally by: Doc Robertson
...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
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Davos Vaughn
Gallente
GSZ
Magnum Opus.
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Posted - 2009.12.03 05:31:00 -
[33]
Quote:
Also having to find a system no one is in with tru sec and lots of belts usually mean you are far from your hub and in a higher danger of being discovered. Overall LvL4's are more cosistent with more $$/per day
While this is totally true, living in null-sec is just more FUN than grinding out missions in a high-sec hub. If your only concern is efficiency than you're not even playing the game...
I sacrifice consistency for exploration, profit potential and dangerous fun.
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Enduros
Caldari Provisions
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Posted - 2009.12.03 06:04:00 -
[34]
It's true about arch/sal sites, good isk but totally random output. I'd say doing them consistently for about a week will put you at an average 50mil/h for the work you put in. Safer and more interesting then belting or ratting. But requires 2 toons to be efficient.
Belting can yield you some nice figures too, but I'd say it's 30-40mil since you need to start chains going... and once they do some blue **** will come along and end those chains for you. And then ofc there are reds/neutrals. Mind you loosing a ship is a very remote possibility if you got a clue about what you are doing, but they do shut your operation down for a while.
And those numbers are only possible if you have an alt scouting spawns for you while your fat marauder aligns or you fly something nimble with an alt assigning carrier drones to you. Any 0.0 activity needs 2 chars if you wanna beat empire carebearing.
I don't see how you get over 30mil/h for missions though. Sure there are some missions that yield good rats, but then you also get a lot of ****ty ones where half the rats are frigs and then there are your currier missions... you can only turn down so much without taking standing hits.
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If you find the post above offensive feel free to feel offended. |
Carniflex
Fallout Research
Fallout Project
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Posted - 2009.12.03 11:35:00 -
[35]
It might make more sense to rephrase the question nowdays. Before dominion systems with good amount of belts and true sec under -0.7 were better if you were able to get it all to yourself than lev 4 missions. Depending a bit on tackiks used and fittings ofc. Nowdays however:
Is it better to do anomalies in 0.0 system or to run lev 4 missions ?
Now that's the question in my mind. Ofc from isk/h perspective. Anomalies can have faction spawns, but do not give LP, missions you almost never get faction spawns, but get LP (and get your faction items thru that). In a upgrad system the anomalies are kinda supposed be 'like L4 missions'. The initial reports about anomalies are from wall to wall starting from omg crapcrapcrap all the way to the omgfactionspawns.
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AmarrettoDiAmarr
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Posted - 2009.12.03 18:28:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Babel
The correct answer =
Do a week ratting in yr 0.0 system - write down on a piece of paper how much you make
Do a week running missions for your agents - also write down how much
The biggest number of the two will answer your question exactly tailored to your playstyle and situation :)
Though you might should adjust it for ship lost. Losing a ship in a L4 might happen (client, server, ISP crashes, lags and real life interruptions) but rarely. And some forum elites might say they never lose a ship in 0.0. Losing a 100m ship every 400 hours is negligible. Losing a 300m ship every 100 hours starts to be non-trivial. |
Birdman Ravo
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Posted - 2009.12.03 19:21:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Rutroh
What level missions are you running to make 20 million per hour?
My character is not very old and i have about 2 million SP but I can only run level 1 missions so far. I have been working on the same corp forever and it's barely moving. I am lucky if I make 3 million per hour!
How did you jump up so fast?
It's almost geometric. You'll grind L1s for what feels like forever. Then you hit L2s and it all changes. Before you know it L3 missions open up for you, and then L4s soon after. Tag along with L4 mission runners as a frig popper, a few of those missions will do wonders.
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