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Tomil Caldari Full Contact	Posted - 2009.12.03 13:05:00 - [61] Originally by: Zarnak Wulf Originally by: Bun Engine Originally by: Gamrikis So for all intensive purposes... This is quite possibly the most spectacular failure of english literacy I have seen on these forums. Especially so since the guy who wrote it goes on to be an elitist ***** for the rest of the post. In other news, the patch has been out for less than 48 hours. While I realize no amount of time can convince most players to try new things, I'm sure there's a handful of original pilots out there willing to try out a few new tricks. Much like any balance change, time will tell. Theorycrafting with Apocalypse and Maelstrom hit-squads is pretty comical if we're talking a pitched fleet battle. Now as far as territory raids go, that's something else entirely. (It's "for all intents and purposes", since I know you're still fuming about my insult to your flawless command of your mother tongue) This. Minmatar are hit and run. This boost is perfect for them. I agree with everything above. signed
Arrador	Posted - 2009.12.03 13:47:00 - [62] Originally by: Sidus Isaacs Originally by: Hirana Yoshida And to think that the stuff that made it into DOM is a severely reduced version of some of the things that was tested and requested by the "leet" Matari pilots .. Auto ships are so damn close to OP now it's scary It certanly gave my gank cane new interesting life. So next whine topic is blasters?? :) That bandwagon is already rolling.
Siddy Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.03 14:34:00 - [63] Edited by: Siddy on 03/12/2009 14:34:41 I, for once, welcome these changes. Tempest has become best 1.0 solo gankk boat! (jita, here i come) Tempest is also now finaly the hit and run ship it was frigging 4 years ago. Tempest hasd returned to truth! It has it nieche, and for anything else i use rails cause i crosstrained ghaylente for machariel :D Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
Caroline Nikon	Posted - 2009.12.03 14:48:00 - [64] Originally by: Siddy Edited by: Siddy on 03/12/2009 14:34:41 I, for once, welcome these changes. Tempest has become best 1.0 solo gankk boat! (jita, here i come) Tempest is also now finaly the hit and run ship it was frigging 4 years ago. Tempest hasd returned to truth! It has it nieche, and for anything else i use rails cause i crosstrained ghaylente for machariel :D pretty much that! Tempest is great low sec/high sec small scale hit and run ship.. and mediocre large fleet sniper. APoc is great massive fleet sniper but mediocre hit and run ship. PRetty much balanced.. with FLAVOR!
Traidor Disloyal Private Nuisance	Posted - 2009.12.03 15:19:00 - [65] You know what's great? I can fly all 4 races ships up to Battleship. I can use all their weapons systems. FOTM? I spit in the eye of FOTM. And I have anchoring V. And I have 17 million (I can help). Woo Hoo! See what wasting ones time for 3 years and 4 months gets you. Spitting FOTM in the eye. ************************************************* I have three characters. One has Cov Ops V along with all the bells and whistles that goes with it.
Darthewok Blue Republic	Posted - 2009.12.03 15:36:00 - [66] Edited by: Darthewok on 03/12/2009 15:37:42 BAH thats nothing. I can fly all 4 races' shuttles and use their civilian weapons. My noobships are all nerf proof... ok serious question - does overloading improve volley damage? because if it does (together with arty alpha boost)
Josh Silver Amarr GoonFleet GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.12.03 15:39:00 - [67] Why doesn't EMP have -50% falloff? It's beyond ******ed.
Nian Banks Minmatar Berserkers of Aesir	Posted - 2009.12.03 15:41:00 - [68] Originally by: Josh Silver Why doesn't EMP have -50% falloff? It's beyond ******ed. Because fighting in falloff has enough DPS reduction to make it fair.
Siddy Minmatar Evolution IT Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.03 15:43:00 - [69] Edited by: Siddy on 03/12/2009 15:45:16 Originally by: Darthewok Edited by: Darthewok on 03/12/2009 15:37:42 BAH thats nothing. I can fly all 4 races' shuttles and use their civilian weapons. My noobships are all nerf proof... ok serious question - does overloading improve volley damage? because if it does (together with arty alpha boost) if it does improve = :D wich is fun since its not hig Rof wepon. so it wont burn out anytime soon :D Sig removed, inappropriate content. If you would like further details please mail [email protected] ~Saint
AnKahn Caldari The Giant Squid Corp. Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.12.03 15:44:00 - [70] Originally by: Gamrikis Maybe it is just what people want to believe but there is not much this gang style can do that a long range gang wouldn't be better for. Dps on the field every 20 + seconds for a few seconds then gone or full time dps always on the field. I know what I would want, that is dps applied constantly and more of it do to time on field. I am sure you understand where I am coming from. How long is your warp? how long does it take to re-warp back to the field? As far as I am concerned you might as well not show up in that type of gang. Sure you might live but your mates all died well your gang played chicken with the battle field. This sounds like stealth bomber tactics and why I actually don't prefer to be in a stealth bomber unless I'm needed to scout. This style of play is indeed unsatisfying. Nothing here makes me want ot crosstrain minnie but then again I'm a sub cap pilot for now..
Gamrikis	Posted - 2009.12.03 16:04:00 - [71] Originally by: AnKahn Originally by: Gamrikis Maybe it is just what people want to believe but there is not much this gang style can do that a long range gang wouldn't be better for. Dps on the field every 20 + seconds for a few seconds then gone or full time dps always on the field. I know what I would want, that is dps applied constantly and more of it do to time on field. I am sure you understand where I am coming from. How long is your warp? how long does it take to re-warp back to the field? As far as I am concerned you might as well not show up in that type of gang. Sure you might live but your mates all died well your gang played chicken with the battle field. This sounds like stealth bomber tactics and why I actually don't prefer to be in a stealth bomber unless I'm needed to scout. This style of play is indeed unsatisfying. Nothing here makes me want ot crosstrain minnie but then again I'm a sub cap pilot for now.. Ya see this is where they rage/flame on you for not being a yes man. Stealth bombers indeed do way more alpha damage thanks to a large splash damage. Also they scout and have little risk in them de-cloaking launching and getting out. You can go ahead and use the tempest for this though. I personally know what way I would roll on this idea, I feel sorry for the people that get the impression that this group style will be used and train Minmatar when every race has a SB in it's mix of ships. It is not that it is a useless style, it is large ships are outclassed by SB's for gank and run and long range snipers with their constant applied dps. Waiting for flames from some angry guy.
Intigo Amarr Rionnag Alba Triumvirate.	Posted - 2009.12.03 16:04:00 - [72] Overloading will increase damage for ACs and give you a faster RoF for Artillery. Would probably not be too balanced if it was the other way around - as fun as it might be. Originally by: Josh Silver Why doesn't EMP have -50% falloff? It's beyond ******ed. Get out, it's fine. ___________________ HELLO! My name is Inigo Mont...oh f' it.
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.12.03 16:35:00 - [73] Originally by: Gamrikis Originally by: AnKahn Originally by: Gamrikis Maybe it is just what people want to believe but there is not much this gang style can do that a long range gang wouldn't be better for. Dps on the field every 20 + seconds for a few seconds then gone or full time dps always on the field. I know what I would want, that is dps applied constantly and more of it do to time on field. I am sure you understand where I am coming from. How long is your warp? how long does it take to re-warp back to the field? As far as I am concerned you might as well not show up in that type of gang. Sure you might live but your mates all died well your gang played chicken with the battle field. This sounds like stealth bomber tactics and why I actually don't prefer to be in a stealth bomber unless I'm needed to scout. This style of play is indeed unsatisfying. Nothing here makes me want ot crosstrain minnie but then again I'm a sub cap pilot for now.. Ya see this is where they rage/flame on you for not being a yes man. Stealth bombers indeed do way more alpha damage thanks to a large splash damage. Also they scout and have little risk in them de-cloaking launching and getting out. You can go ahead and use the tempest for this though. I personally know what way I would roll on this idea, I feel sorry for the people that get the impression that this group style will be used and train Minmatar when every race has a SB in it's mix of ships. It is not that it is a useless style, it is large ships are outclassed by SB's for gank and run and long range snipers with their constant applied dps. Waiting for flames from some angry guy. some people are already usign it and works far better than SBombers. FAR better. SBobmers do not have boms in low sec. And you need much more of them to alpha a battleship. Its simple fact, its WORKS for small scale warfare.
AnKahn Caldari The Giant Squid Corp. Maru Ka'ge	Posted - 2009.12.03 16:58:00 - [74] Originally by: Seishi Maru some people are already usign it and works far better than SBombers. FAR better. SBobmers do not have boms in low sec. And you need much more of them to alpha a battleship. Its simple fact, its WORKS for small scale warfare. I just said it was unsatisfying, not that I doubted the effectiveness of the tactic. Just saying I've got a feel for what it's like to be in warp because warrior IIs started chewing on you and not being able to stay and fight. The stealth bomber is and extreem example of a situational ship unless you are cool with the fact that it's a scout that can sometimes help out in a fight. Which is better 10 guys in SB (with support) or 10 guys in Hacs (with support)? Same goes for the 10 Tempests vs. 10 any other BSs (RR, tank and gank, whatever). People are going to start yelling "Pests!!" like they yell "bomb!!" now. Enjoy your boost guys, but I'm still looking to train lazors (yea, I'm a little behind everyone else).
Seishi Maru The Black Dawn Gang	Posted - 2009.12.03 17:26:00 - [75] Originally by: AnKahn Originally by: Seishi Maru some people are already usign it and works far better than SBombers. FAR better. SBobmers do not have boms in low sec. And you need much more of them to alpha a battleship. Its simple fact, its WORKS for small scale warfare. I just said it was unsatisfying, not that I doubted the effectiveness of the tactic. Just saying I've got a feel for what it's like to be in warp because warrior IIs started chewing on you and not being able to stay and fight. The stealth bomber is and extreem example of a situational ship unless you are cool with the fact that it's a scout that can sometimes help out in a fight. Which is better 10 guys in SB (with support) or 10 guys in Hacs (with support)? Same goes for the 10 Tempests vs. 10 any other BSs (RR, tank and gank, whatever). People are going to start yelling "Pests!!" like they yell "bomb!!" now. Enjoy your boost guys, but I'm still looking to train lazors (yea, I'm a little behind everyone else). certainly, lasers are gonna stil lbe superior if you want saying power. Because staying power is Amarr flavor! But if you have 15 enemy RR BS, while your side has only 10 BS, the hit and run can work very well to take 1-2 kills for almost no risk. If you engaged with normal battleships tactics you would get slaughtered. On large scale is surely impossible to expect to get only tempests pilots on your fleet (but same times is ALMOST impossible to expect only rokhs and apocs). But i am not talking about those fights. On those fights the FC (if smart) will also NOT fight at 230 km as some imply here, because he shoudl know that at most 30% of his fleet can engage at that range. But for smaller groups and corps is pretty reasonable (since there is quite a lot of specific race flavored corps). And if people start screaming tempest! like they scream bombers.. great! That means tempests are achieving something. For low sec they will become essential tools. Even 4 tempests are enough to hit and run a large gate camp and wreck some BC and recons/hacs kills. At least in the scenario I live its not rare to have available at most 5-7 people in corp while we have a gate camp in neighborhood low sec with 15-20 people. before dominion we could do nothing, now ( we all focus on minmatar) we can... You might be unsatisfied, but the way YOU want to play the game is not the only way the game can be played. And the way you want to play the came, is already covered by amarr battleships, so let minmatar ones cover the other style. And even for your style, the minmatar ships get better than before at least. More dps, more damage over time, and the alpha striek advantage that STILL helps keep you ahead of other battleships for quite some time on damage dealt during an engagements. Sure, you have worse range, and if your enemy warp at you at 230 km you have an issue. But if your fleet commander warp your fleet at 230 km ,while your fleet is loaded with lots of minmatar ships, its his fault for throwing away a large ammount of his firepower. If he intends to act like that he should say that he wants ONLY ammar and caldari pilots on his fleet....
Katarlia Simov Minmatar Cowboys From Hell	Posted - 2009.12.03 18:05:00 - [76] Originally by: Seishi Maru Stuff. You could ALWAYS have come in, sniped and run before. This is not new. The extra alpha on arties is pretty nice, but y'all are only making a big thing out of it because you've just discovered it. Yes, sniping is a pretty effective tactic, especially when attacking a shorter ranged gang (who knew?) but its not as good as you think. Yes yes... its all so very 1337 to shout 'headshot' down ts... but the number of bs that it takes to make this happen means you may as well have just gone in heavy and fought like men anyway. As you will discover to your loss, a couple of ceptors or tackler of any kind will stick points on a couple of you as the rest warp out, and you go from instapopping a guy and warping off to loosing two or three guys per run. High alpha is obviously good, but its not going to change how the world works.
Trader20	Posted - 2009.12.03 20:14:00 - [77] Why not just give arties infinite falloff, that should make things fair. It's only falloff, not the eft leet damage the min think their getting.
Brahan Seer Coded Arms Corp	Posted - 2009.12.03 20:22:00 - [78] No no no, minmtar aren't flavor of the month! We're still the underdogs damn it! Tell us were crap again! That's all I ask
Mysteriax Scoopex Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.12.03 22:21:00 - [79] Just move your ship and minmatar snipers will miss. Minmatar arti have horrid tracking and if you even move the slightest they will miss and miss allot
Qi Teuf Epiphyte Mining and Exploration Majesta Empire	Posted - 2009.12.03 23:41:00 - [80] Originally by: Seishi Maru Edited by: Seishi Maru on 03/12/2009 10:02:23 Originally by: Gamrikis Originally by: Madner Kami Edited by: Madner Kami on 02/12/2009 23:51:22 Originally by: Gamrikis I am waiting for the complete realization that it was a lateral move for arties. It does nothing in the scope of large fleet battles other than hit and get the F*** out tactics that I will try to implament in the fleets I am in. I think the biggest problem is the tracking and range of arties is way to low.Don't get mad just get use to the fact that in fleet combat you will be a small anomily that most FC's will not try to fit into their plan. Hm, I doubt you realize how surprisingly unpleasent a sudden flanking squad of artillery ships can be (now again). Not to be rude but that unsupported accusation of what I do and don't know seems placed at random. So for all intensive purposes I will approach this by allowing you to explain yourself with logical supported application just how good/important a flanking squad will be. Explain the purpose, explain your escape plan and why you should do this with Minie ships. Understand that if we take a test sample of apocs and say that from the time they land at 100-140 from targets and the pilot clicks the warp button for a planet behind them, they can get off 3-4 shots minimum negating the so called boost to your beloved alpha. I love being proven wrong with strong facts so have at it. P.S. I don't like mock scenarios with no factual numbers at all, just unproven words. no they cannot! An apoc takes 9.7 seconds to lock a tempest when usign only range scripts for sensor boosters. TEmpets warp in.. click warp out and lock.. tempest takes 7.3 seconds to lock an apoc. Result tempests fire 1 salvo and wap out 2 seconds later. Apoc if incredibly well primed will fire 1 salvo..... doign 1/3 of the damage. Since the tempests are the ones warping in at their desired range. They can warp in at 60 km (ok that is realistic mostly in low sec than 0.0), with lock time on the sensor boosters and make the whoel thing not need even great precision and coordination by the minie pilots. Just follow the wing commander warp fleet command. People are already doign this.. and works, Obviously is nto pratical at a huge fleet size when even a single salvo form apocs or even rokhs is enough to insta pop something. But on smaller scales it allows for smaller forces to score a few hits for no losses. Its factual.. it works. No it will not clear the battlefield in your favor, will not hold any ground. But fits exactly minmatar role , of smaller forces causing attrition to a much more powerful enemy fleet. We still need to gather enough pilots to be able to insta pop a RR fit abaddon, but that will eventually happen as well. Rifleman Dodd comes to mind, when I read the underlined portion above. It's a great story of a single rifleman that uses hit and run tactics to disrupt a vastly superior force. Don't underestimate guerilla style tactics. I see the Minmatar hit and run tactic used most effectively on a stationary defending force (stationary meaning a POS/iHUB etc.).
Gamrikis	Posted - 2009.12.04 00:42:00 - [81] Originally by: Seishi Maru Originally by: Gamrikis Originally by: AnKahn Originally by: Gamrikis Maybe it is just what people want to believe but there is not much this gang style can do that a long range gang wouldn't be better for. Dps on the field every 20 + seconds for a few seconds then gone or full time dps always on the field. I know what I would want, that is dps applied constantly and more of it do to time on field. I am sure you understand where I am coming from. How long is your warp? how long does it take to re-warp back to the field? As far as I am concerned you might as well not show up in that type of gang. Sure you might live but your mates all died well your gang played chicken with the battle field. This sounds like stealth bomber tactics and why I actually don't prefer to be in a stealth bomber unless I'm needed to scout. This style of play is indeed unsatisfying. Nothing here makes me want ot crosstrain minnie but then again I'm a sub cap pilot for now.. Ya see this is where they rage/flame on you for not being a yes man. Stealth bombers indeed do way more alpha damage thanks to a large splash damage. Also they scout and have little risk in them de-cloaking launching and getting out. You can go ahead and use the tempest for this though. I personally know what way I would roll on this idea, I feel sorry for the people that get the impression that this group style will be used and train Minmatar when every race has a SB in it's mix of ships. It is not that it is a useless style, it is large ships are outclassed by SB's for gank and run and long range snipers with their constant applied dps. Waiting for flames from some angry guy. some people are already usign it and works far better than SBombers. FAR better. SBobmers do not have boms in low sec. And you need much more of them to alpha a battleship. Its simple fact, its WORKS for small scale warfare. So a ship good for pirate activity and some low sec pewpew makes for a FOTM? Last I check the majority of eve did not hang around low sec. Lets just agree to disagree, our worlds are obviously different and I am not about to argue which one is more populated.
Trader20	Posted - 2009.12.04 02:27:00 - [82] FOTM would be the best ship for station spinning.

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