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Grimpak
Gallente Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group
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Posted - 2009.12.09 17:06:00 -
[211]
Edited by: Grimpak on 09/12/2009 17:07:04
Originally by: Professor Tarantula If you're still getting the 'PvP shakes' in EVE, just wait, they'll go away after awhile too. Even people who engage in real life PvP lose the nervousness in time.
oh you're somewhat wrong there.
the shakes can decrease with time, but they never go away, specially when it's one of those slugfest fights with roaming gangs and whatnot.
the shakes, they never go away. trust me. 6 years of eve tell me this
Originally by: Zeba I read this with Dennis Hopper's voice in my mind.
and now I asked a corpie to do a Dennis Hopper sig with part of that quote ---
Quote: The more I know about humans, the more I love animals.
ain't that right. |
TechDealer
Caldari Science and Trade Institute
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Posted - 2009.12.09 18:13:00 -
[212]
In short dont like the game just quit the game. no point telling ccp what to do.
I also find it hard to believe they actually have 100k players. maybe 1/4 of this 100k are alts. Another thing is playing a game with a steeper learning curve doesn't make ur smarter. Paying 15 bucks for 30 days to log in click and wait for skill to lvl up for 30 days or more is fun? if so good for you. seriously how smart does this get?
May i suggest restaurant city in face book is free and the concept of log click wait unlog is pretty similiar to eve lol.
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Opportunity Costs
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.09 18:19:00 -
[213]
-pay 11% tax -never leave The Forge
kthx __________________________________ - Mining your own minerals doesnt drop your manufacturing costs! - Marginal earnings is what actually counts - Time is isk and enjoyment is isk aswell |
Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.09 18:30:00 -
[214]
Originally by: zarlack coldhand
Originally by: Plim I think that EVE is pretty fair.
I don't see why levelling the playing field between a veteran player and a new player is 'fair', infact that sounds pretty unfair. What the hell would be the point in the game, if after playing for years, you haven't gained an advantage in skill and knowledge over someone who has just started playing? This makes no sense.
Is chess unfair when a veteran player like Kasperov beats a new player? They are both subject to the same rules, the advantage comes from what has been invested in the game.
If the case was were Kasperov has only queens and a king the new player has only pawns and king who wins.
That is how alot of new players to EvE see the PvP aspect to the game.
just my 2 isk
That may how they see it, but then they see it wrong.
EVE is like RL, and noobs are like kids, still new to a world they don't yet understand. But all the gorwn ups got the advantage, so the kid needs to grow up to take part in the world proper.
EVE is the only game that offers such concepts.
No other MMO I have seen offers actual freedom to make your own path in game. TO make out of it what you want to make out of it. Want to be a merc? Be a merc, no tools needd for it. Want to be a pirate? Be a pirate, no need to make tools for it spesifically. Want to be an emperor? Make an a allaince and claim space, no need ot have an emperor calss in game. etc etc etc.
Thats the beauty of EVE, there is no need for tools to do things. No need for CCP to hold you fragile little hand and guid you through a happy la la land of a game.
EVE provides a consisten one shard world and a set of basic skills, ships and tools. The players choose how to use these tools within the game world. No need for artifical alliance vs hord wars (thats why I kind of dislike faction war), no need for a class system, no need for level grinding.
Carebears don't understand these concpets and they think a game should be like a WOW copy where everyhting is handed to you, no need to think.
And lets be clear: industry is not carebear as some have tohught. Market PVP exist.
A carebear is a "typical WOW player".
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Windjammer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.09 21:28:00 -
[215]
Originally by: Sidus Isaacs EVE provides a consisten one shard world and a set of basic skills, ships and tools. The players choose how to use these tools within the game world. No need for artifical alliance vs hord wars (thats why I kind of dislike faction war), no need for a class system, no need for level grinding.
Carebears don't understand these concpets and they think a game should be like a WOW copy where everyhting is handed to you, no need to think.
And lets be clear: industry is not carebear as some have tohught. Market PVP exist.
A carebear is a "typical WOW player".
I wonder. Do you classify all industrialists this way? All are carebears? If you do, you're mistaken. While you may call them carebears, you're often only half right. They may be bears, but they really don't care. Bears have teeth and claws and they aren't all that fuzzy and cuddly. They're great big hairy killing machines.
Windjammer
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Trader20
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Posted - 2009.12.09 22:29:00 -
[216]
PvP is a 100+ man gate camp r@ping a T1 frig.
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Plim
Gallente Celestial Apocalypse death from above..
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Posted - 2009.12.10 00:24:00 -
[217]
Originally by: zarlack coldhand
Originally by: Plim I think that EVE is pretty fair.
I don't see why levelling the playing field between a veteran player and a new player is 'fair', infact that sounds pretty unfair. What the hell would be the point in the game, if after playing for years, you haven't gained an advantage in skill and knowledge over someone who has just started playing? This makes no sense.
Is chess unfair when a veteran player like Kasperov beats a new player? They are both subject to the same rules, the advantage comes from what has been invested in the game.
If the case was were Kasperov has only queens and a king the new player has only pawns and king who wins.
That is how alot of new players to EvE see the PvP aspect to the game.
just my 2 isk
Of course it occured to me that a noob has less hardware available to them when they start playing, but that's not the point of the analogy, however I thought that that was so obvious that I wouldn't have to point it out
The skill and time invested of the superior chess player is also analogous to the equipment accumulated by the veteran player in EVE, along with their skill in the game.
The point is that in reality all things are equal in EVE, we all have to go through the same processes to be succesful, and the success of the veteran player does not preclude the success of the new player, sensibly CCP has designed the game that way. Those evil doing players who kill noobs in belts were also noobs at one point getting pwned in belts. But instead of getting angry and quiting the game, they decided to learn from it. This seems like a fair picture.
In light of this, a noob having the capacity to be be a threat to someone who has developed much more skill and has invested much more time in the game would be unfair.
Personally one of my favourite times in the game was in 2003 when I was a noob, facing superior pilots who had played the game for longer and employing my critical faculties to try and figure out how to beat them. Maybe I'm a minority, but I find that difficulty fun. This game isn't for everyone.
However, just to provide another chess related analogy. The people who do something idiotic, like jumping into a 0.4 system and getting their ships ganked, are somewhat like someone leaving their knight undefended while it's under threat by their opponents queen, then complaining about how unfair it is that they took it with a superior piece, despite having the opportunity to move it to safety. A big part of the game is knowing how to employ the resources available to you in a logical fashion.
As I always say, in EVE you get yourself killed, people get blown up because they put themselves in an unwinnable situation in the first place. The queen is no threat to a pawn it cannot attack. ---- Me - Plim Character. You - Non-Plim Character. |
Professor Tarantula
Hedion University
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Posted - 2009.12.10 01:06:00 -
[218]
Originally by: Grimpak oh you're somewhat wrong there.
the shakes can decrease with time, but they never go away, specially when it's one of those slugfest fights with roaming gangs and whatnot.
the shakes, they never go away. trust me. 6 years of eve tell me this
I suppose it has much to do with personality types, also.
My deepest sympathies. Prof. Tarantula, Esq. |
Dodgy Past
Amarr Debitum Naturae
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Posted - 2009.12.10 14:21:00 -
[219]
Edited by: Dodgy Past on 10/12/2009 14:21:44
Originally by: Octa Butler I'm sorry I cannot pass this up. Sure life is not fair, but let me ask you this. Do you think the 50% that passed that class got better jobs or were better able to accomplish their goals than the other 50%?
I would guess that 75% of the "failures" got what they wanted in the end. I would also guess that 25% of the passing grade failed in what they wanted. I would also guess that at least 50% of the entire class is probably unhappy in their life even if they have succeeded or failed. In fact some of the "failures" may be the happiest people you will ever meet.
So what does the above paragraph mean? It means that your prof's advice was utterly meaningless. The whole success/failure is based mostly on random chance as opposed to any working you will do. Of course this is in real life.
LOL
Typical self entitlement rather than earning through hard work, bet you've had people telling you how smart you are all your life rather than congratulating you for working hard to overcome the obstacles you face.
Why don't people get it? You get out of Eve what you put into it. It doesn't artificially pat you on the head for putting time in, nor does it set you goals, but instead gives you the ability choose your own goals and figure out how to achieve them for yourself.
Despite all th things the players love to hate it's success is defined by this since it offers an alternative. CCP don't give a **** how many hate it and never play again, but how many love it and do. If that minority is enough to keep the game growing at a reasonable pace they don't give a **** about how many others shed tears becauyse they can't hack it.
---------------------------------------------------------------------------- you seem determined to turn it into ******* Hollyoaks for neckbeards. |
Madla Mafia
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Posted - 2009.12.10 15:28:00 -
[220]
Edited by: Madla Mafia on 10/12/2009 15:28:18 Why is there 7 pages worth of junk in this thread?!? It is really simple. PvP is "Player versus Player." So if you are talking combat, then any combat involving two players (or more) is considered PvP. Ganking haulers, suicide runs, alliance fleet battles, it's ALL PVP!!!
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Dong Fang
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Posted - 2009.12.10 15:50:00 -
[221]
i am livin brooklyn for 7 years now.. how your weak stupid brother sirvive?!?
HTFU!!!
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aechos
Minmatar Miners In Possession
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Posted - 2009.12.10 21:59:00 -
[222]
mmmm wow player tears are salty.....
Go for gold Super troll !!!
Quote: I see you
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Dirk Mortice
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Posted - 2009.12.10 22:10:00 -
[223]
So I just went down to my brother's cafe in London and had a chat with a few people, who make up a considerable portion of the internet using community. During our discussions we decided that you were a complete idiot.
Now that I have conclusive proof that everybody on the internet (clearly the people that go to my brother's cafe = everbody on the internet) thinks that you're a complete ****, I'm just posting here to reveal the results of my survey.
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Junko Togawa
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.10 22:23:00 -
[224]
PvP: Insert ISK, Output Fun.
If you expect it to be more complex and meaningful than that, it's your problem, not CCP's.
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Phaite Accompli
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Posted - 2009.12.11 00:06:00 -
[225]
I don't post often on the forums and I'm not going to post this time either.
~Dying is easy. It's living that's dangerous.
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Mr Epeen
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Posted - 2009.12.11 06:52:00 -
[226]
Want to know how to make 80% of the asshats posting in this thread cry?
Make EVE a harsh game for real.
Get rid of insurance, lose the 2 weeks free grief fest that is also known as recycling alts and dump the play for ISK program. Also keep it at one (1) character per acct, period. If you are going to play the bad ass then take some real risks. Be prepared to lose your stuff for real if you fail a gank. That is harsh.
Right now EVE is just WOW wrapped up in a pretty space package.
Telling everyone you are a cold, dark, harsh game doesn't make it true.
Mr Epeen
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Boink'urr
Minmatar Wasserette De Tarthorst
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Posted - 2009.12.11 07:53:00 -
[227]
Originally by: Mr Epeen
Telling everyone you are a cold, dark, harsh game doesn't make it true.
Mr Epeen
Absolutely right. Eve is a warm fuzzy beautiful colored place with the fashionable griefing idiot here and there.
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LordValia
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Posted - 2009.12.11 08:09:00 -
[228]
The only true fairness is the right to choose. That is something we all already have. If you don't wanna fight, don't go looking for one. Those MMO's you claim that have a vastly larger consumer base provide escape from reality. Fairness in your terms is mere fantasy. However, fairness takes the form of prisoner's dilemma in real life. Everyone being a jerk works out to be fair in the end.
So go escape to your fantasy world if you want. The rest of us will continue enjoying reality.
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Ishquar Teh'Sainte
Evoke. Ev0ke
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Posted - 2009.12.11 08:32:00 -
[229]
Originally by: Mr Epeen Get rid of insurance,
check. i'm currently flying t2 ships only.
Quote:
lose the 2 weeks free grief fest that is also known as recycling alts
check. don't have alt-accounts or any other meaningful alt.
Quote: and dump the play for ISK program.
check. never bought a plex/GTC for ISK. never sold a plex/GTC for ISK.
Quote: Also keep it at one (1) character per acct, period.
only one price-check alt for jita. well, there's still EVE-central and ally/corpmates. so wouldn't be much of a problem.
do i get a cookie now? ___________________
---[SAY NO TO CYNO-LOGISTICS]---
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Elena Laskova
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Posted - 2009.12.11 08:52:00 -
[230]
@ Mr Epeen
That's so true. The mild consequences of losing in EvE have made it a game of cowards, dividing their PvP time between "run and hide", and flocking together in the largest possible groups praying someone else will get targeted. "Rabbits disguised as sewer rats".
Of course there's nothing wrong with this. People have every right to spend their leisure time running away from virtual fights because they are scared to lose a few pixels.
But I can't help thinking it would be a better game if this behavior was seen for what it is, rather than called "hardcore".
EvE would be a lot more fun if it really was played as a simulation of a society with no functioning government. But there is a big difference between RL and the game: in RL the soldiers can only die once.
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Sun Ra
The Water Margin Tech
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Posted - 2009.12.11 13:10:00 -
[231]
I agree with the OP, what CCP should do is make all of eve 0.0 and u cant shoot people anywhere BUT you can sign up for 2v2, 3v3 & 5v5 games which takes place on 3 maps, one at a station, one at a pos and one in a roid belt THIS IS HOW TO MAKE EVE A PVP GAME
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Riedle
Minmatar Raptus Regalitor Black Legion.
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Posted - 2009.12.11 13:42:00 -
[232]
Anyone else running locator on this guy?
:)
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Baron Agamemnon
Caldari Holy Grail Construction Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2009.12.11 13:45:00 -
[233]
Edited by: Baron Agamemnon on 11/12/2009 13:45:51
Originally by: Shuddayomoufa As a carebear that has played on and off since beta, with NO kills to my name , (It used to be humiliating, but I consider it a badge of honor. Just think how humiliated the other guy will be when I make my first kill!) ,I have to put in my two cents: Two times I have rage quit because I did something stupid. One was when I put every dime into an ill-fitted BS and went to mine (!) alone in 0.0 (!), with no insurance (!) The other is when I took my finely fitted hulk to mine alone in 0.0 with no insurance and no ISK backup. Two other times I quit because I was bored because all I did was mine in hisec. Imagine that. Now I do a little PvP but still suck. What is the most fun for me is exploring in 0.0 while playing hide and seek in lowsec. I get caught, but I also get away a lot too. The best is when I have 20 mill in data cores in my hold and I am making a break for safety. The whole time I am chatting with my pursuer in local. Exploring would be so boring if I wasnĘt looking over my shoulder all of the time. Your idea of making it "even" would destroy this game. This is coming from someone with no kills since this game started. My advice? Go play bejeweled blitz.
In other words you are not really a carebear since you enjoy player interation. Even if that interaction is trying to avoid players
A carebear is one who only does PVE and whines when there is player interaction and demapds CCP hold them in ther delicate snowflake hands and adds content for them since they got no imagination and needs someone else to provide instant gratification at no risk. They cry when they loose something becuase they did an error them self, adn are generally no good at thinking for themself.
Many other MMOs (well all other that I know of) caters to these players because they are numerous. Thats also why other MMOs got lower lifespan then EVE since these carebears eventaully bore of the different MMOs (no imagination after all, so are not able to create their own content).
EVE however just gives us a world and some tools and say "Its a thoguh world, do as you want". EVE does not offer instant gratification. EVE rewards the players that spend time in it, EVE rewards the dedicated and the clever ones.
PVE in and of itself is not carebear, its a source of isk. And its not free of player interaction either.
And was it not for player interaction I would have left the game long time ago, and indeed why would I want to play EVE when its far cheaper to play offline games as freelancer if I wanted no player interaction?
EVE may not have the biggest player base, but it has a consistent one, and a single world. And the ones who really love EVEs challenges stay for a long time. I am soon 2 years old ingame, and I think I will stay a lot longer . And only now I am really getting the most out of EVE!
--- "And thus, another of the world's dreamers died, taking his dreams with him. Just as John Lennon wanted world peace, Gerald Bull simply wanted a gun big enough to fire **** into space." |
lythos miralbar
4 wing Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2009.12.11 15:04:00 -
[234]
Quote: Want to know how to make 80% of the asshats posting in this thread cry?
Make EVE a harsh game for real.
Get rid of insurance, lose the 2 weeks free grief fest that is also known as recycling alts and dump the play for ISK program. Also keep it at one (1) character per acct, period. If you are going to play the bad ass then take some real risks. Be prepared to lose your stuff for real if you fail a gank. That is harsh.
Right now EVE is just WOW wrapped up in a pretty space package.
Telling everyone you are a cold, dark, harsh game doesn't make it true.
Mr Epeen
/SIGNED
I want to play that game NOW
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Junko Togawa
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.11 15:14:00 -
[235]
Originally by: Mr Epeen Want to know how to make 80% of the asshats posting in this thread cry?
Make EVE a harsh game for real.
Get rid of insurance, lose the 2 weeks free grief fest that is also known as recycling alts and dump the play for ISK program. Also keep it at one (1) character per acct, period. If you are going to play the bad ass then take some real risks. Be prepared to lose your stuff for real if you fail a gank. That is harsh.
Right now EVE is just WOW wrapped up in a pretty space package.
Telling everyone you are a cold, dark, harsh game doesn't make it true.
Mr Epeen
Pay attention class, this is how you troll. Deserves its own thread TBH.
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Captain Jack
Caldari
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Posted - 2009.12.11 15:58:00 -
[236]
Tuscan had a few good points. And quite a few people who replied here, why do you have to be such a morons? Is EVE some sort of an escape for you? Little niche where you can live your low, backstabbing life? Why don't you go get stoned or get drunk as you usually do and get yourself another noob ganked at the gate camp?
Speaking about pathetic, I'd say people who justify their low actions and hide their real nature behind the game mechanics - are even more pathetic than those noobs who play in safe sectors.
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Major Templar
Caldari KINGS OF EDEN Sev3rance
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Posted - 2009.12.11 16:24:00 -
[237]
@ OP.
What you are asking for is that CCP make Eve to where anyone can hop in and just be as good as everyone else. Thus, defeating what we have all been doing these last few years in building our characters, our fortunes, our ships, and of course the market. Because if CCP were to do that, then this is what they would need to do.
1.) Get rid of the skill system. This would allow new players to be equal to older players. 2.) Get rid of modules and make all modules do exactly the same. Get rid of Meta and just make 1 of each kind. 3.) Get rid of ISK and make everything free. That way no one person could have anymore then the other. 4.) Make all ships exactly the same. Have just one class and nothing else. 5.) Get rid of corporations, alliances, factions, and groups in all sense. This way no one group can have an advantage over another for being larger or having better pilots.
If you want to make it truly fair, then this is what you need to do. If CCP were to do this, I can tell you that 99% of the player base would leave and children would start playing as it would be rated E for everyone. This isn't preschool and we aren't children. If I wanted a game this dumbed down I would go back to some single player game. Maybe sudoku would be better suited for you?
You mentioned giving the new player something equal to the modules say, I have for example, ok, so this brand new player that started yesterday has a module that works just as good as the module that I spend over 1.3 billion on? Hm, sounds to me like I'm gonna start up another new account just so I can have this super module. How about this, why doesn't CCP just give the new players all a Polaris Frigate with the GM Super Death Ray on it? That would be fair, anyone else up for that? Really, you are lame. So, you lost a ship, get over it and buy a new one or just emoragequit already and get it over with.
Major Templar Head of Armed Forces Kings Of Eden Sev3rance |
Joe Skellington
Minmatar JOKAS Industries
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Posted - 2009.12.11 16:25:00 -
[238]
Originally by: Captain Jack Tuscan had a few good points. And quite a few people who replied here, why do you have to be such a morons? Is EVE some sort of an escape for you? Little niche where you can live your low, backstabbing life? Why don't you go get stoned or get drunk as you usually do and get yourself another noob ganked at the gate camp?
Speaking about pathetic, I'd say people who justify their low actions and hide their real nature behind the game mechanics - are even more pathetic than those noobs who play in safe sectors.
Pot calling the kettle black? Move along citizen.
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Br41n
Amarr Pinky and the Brain corp
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Posted - 2009.12.11 17:56:00 -
[239]
Players viewing **** ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Pinky: Gee, Brain. What are we going to do tonight?
Brain: The same thing we do every night, Pinky. Try to take over the world. ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ |
Jalson
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Posted - 2009.12.11 18:08:00 -
[240]
Originally by: Mr Epeen Want to know how to make 80% of the asshats posting in this thread cry?
Make EVE a harsh game for real.
Get rid of insurance, lose the 2 weeks free grief fest that is also known as recycling alts and dump the play for ISK program. Also keep it at one (1) character per acct, period. If you are going to play the bad ass then take some real risks. Be prepared to lose your stuff for real if you fail a gank. That is harsh.
Right now EVE is just WOW wrapped up in a pretty space package.
Telling everyone you are a cold, dark, harsh game doesn't make it true.
Mr Epeen
I endorse this...Somethings always just been wrong with the whole insurance thing.
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