Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: [one page] |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 11 post(s) |
Makalu Zarya
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 09:05:00 -
[1] - Quote
I don't know why i'm posting this since no one important will read it...
a few quick things i'd like to see brought back.
1. An altogether option of using the old system. no fixes no anything, just the exact way it used to be.
seeing how that won't happen here are some ideas.
2. Separate ships and items please, when I open ships i want to open ships, I don't want to open inventory and then have to seach for where that little line is where the ships up. It is ok when you have time to fiddle with it...but in the heat of a fight when you have switch quickly it is a major pain. I want a totally separate ships window like it used to be...they aren't items and they shouldn't be mashed togeher.
3. Right click options: Where did the options to open fuel bay and ship maint. bay go? Why are CSM members telling me it's less ******* clicks now or asking me why do i just want to open my fuel bay....well i wanna see if i have enough fuel to jump...used to be one click, now yet again i have to open cargo and find where the fuel bay is....will CCP reimburse my carrier when I don't do this quickly enough and not have fuel to GTFO in time? doubt it.
4. The tree and main inventory window are redundant. There doesn't need to be an entry in the tree for every can and/or ship that you have. Double clicking the ship should open a ****NEW**** window with said ships cargohold. Did I write new in large enough letters?
5. shift-click: why??? what was every wrong with double click?
6. Too much stuff in the inventory....so I"m fueling a jump bridge...all i want to see is the damn jump bridge and the can/hauler i'm fueling from....I don't need to see the freaking corp hangar/ship main bay of every single thing in that pos...i seriously don't. I came over to fuel to jump bridge not do anything else.
7. Resetting windows...i think this subject has been covered extensively on the forums. Refer to the other five hundred posts on it (yea cause you actually read this stuff)
General thought...simple tasks that took seconds with the old system now take minutes if not 10s of minutes. It took me over 5 minutes to load up my carrier today...with the old system I would've done it in 30-40 seconds.
My logistics guys are hitting their heads against the wall every time they have to deal with any pos related things. It is literally a nightmare....you took a system that worked perfectly fine that everyone knew how to use and you turned it into this unusable thing that after three weeks of using i cannot get used to.
tl;dr. Don't read anything i wrote and have an option to bring back the old system....all other changes are basically reverting to the old system anyway.
Makalu Zarya, Head FC AAA |
Jack Winters
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 09:16:00 -
[2] - Quote
+1 |
DarklordKarn
The Maverick Navy Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 09:22:00 -
[3] - Quote
+1 |
Orestis GR
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 09:22:00 -
[4] - Quote
+2 ;-) |
Alezka
Lamb Federation Navy Against ALL Authorities
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 09:23:00 -
[5] - Quote
BRING BACK THE OLD INVENTORY !!!
+1!
....Or, don't go travelling any dark lonely allyways near my home town, ever... o.0 |
Harri Bar
Trust Doesn't Rust Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 09:23:00 -
[6] - Quote
+2 |
Azmodeth
Lamb Federation Navy Against ALL Authorities
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 09:24:00 -
[7] - Quote
BRING BACK THE OLD INVENTORY !!!
+1!
....Or, don't go travelling any dark lonely allyways near my home town, ever... o.0 |
R17a
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 09:30:00 -
[8] - Quote
+1 |
Graf Tiger
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 09:31:00 -
[9] - Quote
+1 |
GodLight
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 09:32:00 -
[10] - Quote
+1 |
|
Hemmo Paskiainen
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
331
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 09:35:00 -
[11] - Quote
+1
and again confirming ccp is highly incompetend if it comes down to their game design,.... serious, you should let your devs play the game cause its realy obvius the dev who made this up doesnt.....
posting in a ccp fixing something that isnt broken and therefor breaking it thread... CCP FIX BLACK OPS FFS |
shiko000
Russian Thunder Squad Against ALL Authorities
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 09:40:00 -
[12] - Quote
+1 |
Sv0r0n
Russian Thunder Squad Against ALL Authorities
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 09:48:00 -
[13] - Quote
+1 |
drdxie
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
109
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 09:54:00 -
[14] - Quote
First... well first non -A-, but do agree its not great so +1 Missile enhancers.. https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1235061& |
Dirty Koyote
Russian Thunder Squad Against ALL Authorities
5
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 10:03:00 -
[15] - Quote
+1 |
Terra Khashour
Trust Doesn't Rust Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 10:09:00 -
[16] - Quote
+1 |
Chemical KIM
Sebiestor Tribe Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 10:14:00 -
[17] - Quote
dont sign your post nerd, the new inventory is great. only bitter vets dont like. |
Knightside
hirr Against ALL Authorities
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 10:17:00 -
[18] - Quote
Cannot +1 for proposal, but they implemented a half built interface that drastically set there GUI back. Even getting used to the new Inventory system has been rough and furthermore once accustomed its still buggy and unintuitive. This feature should have been held back a few grades till it really enhanced EVE. Why can't I +1 this? Because its too late, we've gone toooooo farrrrr. |
LiTarr
Trust Doesn't Rust Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 10:31:00 -
[19] - Quote
+1 |
VooDooPimp
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 11:28:00 -
[20] - Quote
+1 |
|
Phil Bob
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 11:46:00 -
[21] - Quote
+1 |
haldarres
Gallente Miliz
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 11:58:00 -
[22] - Quote
+1 |
mogreuss
Russian Thunder Squad Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 11:58:00 -
[23] - Quote
+1 |
Faldal Dartan
Cold Steel Evolution Against ALL Authorities
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 12:06:00 -
[24] - Quote
+1 |
SANYOKA
hirr Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 12:30:00 -
[25] - Quote
+1 |
SweepOre
Love G Peace
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 12:48:00 -
[26] - Quote
+1 |
IWolfMasterI
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 13:45:00 -
[27] - Quote
+1 |
Rock Liberty
VVS Corporition Against ALL Authorities
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 13:51:00 -
[28] - Quote
+1 |
Rawck
VVS Corporition Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 13:52:00 -
[29] - Quote
+1 |
Luc Smith
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 14:36:00 -
[30] - Quote
+1 |
|
Nailus
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 14:47:00 -
[31] - Quote
+1 At least bring fuel bay window back to right click the capacitor hub.... |
EasyPickingsOA
The Chandrian Against ALL Authorities
10
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 14:56:00 -
[32] - Quote
+1
Nothing wrong with the old system, this a total step back in progress with the game development. It is a nightmare!!!
/me Hates and rages again at the inventory system
IMHO this is CCP's you will do as we say and won't listen to our player base 'yet again'!!! |
Kurtkonig
Blackwater USA Inc. Against ALL Authorities
3
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 16:31:00 -
[33] - Quote
+1 |
Geiravor
Trust Doesn't Rust Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 16:50:00 -
[34] - Quote
Useless inventory system. All about looks and no substance.
+1 Maka |
Blastfizzle
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
68
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 17:03:00 -
[35] - Quote
+1 |
960ApofiS069
hirr Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 17:43:00 -
[36] - Quote
+1 |
Shing Thsu
hirr Against ALL Authorities
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 17:47:00 -
[37] - Quote
+1 |
Zyper
Crimson Nation En Garde
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 17:58:00 -
[38] - Quote
+1
Single window sucks, Do you guys come up with these design ideas while drunk? |
Sellendis
The Ares project
142
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 18:05:00 -
[39] - Quote
+1
Sucks plain and simple. Explained in multiple posts, documented and got a video. Promptly ignored by CCP. |
Tyelkormo
Fight Cats Corp Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 18:14:00 -
[40] - Quote
+1 |
|
Kris Black
REUNI0N Against ALL Authorities
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 18:50:00 -
[41] - Quote
+1 |
Darnalia
Novatech Armada En Garde
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 19:46:00 -
[42] - Quote
+1
I think it's best to support both inventory systems. Personally, I preferred the ease of use of the old system. It was simple and straight forward and served my own needs precisely. I see how the new system would benefit the newer player or less involved players which would serve their own needs.
At the very very least, bring an option in for us to switch between both systems. If in doubt CCP, whenever making a change like this to a user interface, ALWAYS give your player base the option to choose.
Dictating to us is not something we particularly warm to. |
Cmd Raven
Silver Snake Enterprise Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:09:00 -
[43] - Quote
+1 |
Crazy Kure
Tr0pa de elite. Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 20:58:00 -
[44] - Quote
+ 5 |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
60
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 21:20:00 -
[45] - Quote
Yes give us old UI BACK.
Maka for the president of eveGäó
|
Louis deGuerre
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
332
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 21:56:00 -
[46] - Quote
All hail Maka !
I don't hate the UI an sich, it is a nice addition to the old UI, but all Maka's points are valid. Give us both old and new features and make us superhappy. FIRE FRIENDSHIP TORPEDOES ! Louis's epic skill guide v1.1 |
Smegger Lister
Smegnet Holdings
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.18 23:43:00 -
[47] - Quote
+1, typical of CCP, if it ain't broke, fix it untill it is. |
Sh0plifter
Black Market Operations
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 00:49:00 -
[48] - Quote
+6
My capitals hate this ******* dumbass change. |
Sajuukkar
The Littlest Hobos En Garde
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 02:04:00 -
[49] - Quote
+1, agreed. Some nice suggestions with actual consequences written up. |
rexenor
Blackwater USA Inc. Against ALL Authorities
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 06:07:00 -
[50] - Quote
+ 1 |
|
Dok Klick
Dok Klick Corporation
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 10:00:00 -
[51] - Quote
+1 |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
236
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 11:24:00 -
[52] - Quote
+1 but i think CCP wont bring back the old UI even if the game now is annoying because of the new crap system |
Cuchulin
DEFCON. The Initiative.
36
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 11:51:00 -
[53] - Quote
Here I am in a AAA thread agreeing with Makalu.... look what you have done CCP :P
+1
On a side note: I find it realy anoying to have my items and ships merged in the station panel just to have them easily accessible...if I expand the station panel enough to look through my items conveniently it blocks almost the whole screen and I cant see my glorious spinning ship anymore :( |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
8
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 12:20:00 -
[54] - Quote
+1 |
Jules Deathbringer
Mortal-Strike
32
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 12:44:00 -
[55] - Quote
plus 1
imho ccp thinks they can make dust more profitable then eve and they really want to branch into console games, thats what this ui is made to support..
personally my pc is not and never will be a playstation. but i doubt ccp will listen
i read the patch release notes for tommorrow, then went back to playing d3
btw ccp, if you read this i want to say you have destroyed eve by making it playstation compatible i wonder if theres much demand for ex ccp employees, no reputable software devloper will touch your boot.ini |
Captain' Jack Sparrow
172
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 13:04:00 -
[56] - Quote
Darnalia wrote:+1
I think it's best to support both inventory systems. Personally, I preferred the ease of use of the old system. It was simple and straight forward and served my own needs precisely. I see how the new system would benefit the newer player or less involved players which would serve their own needs.
At the very very least, bring an option in for us to switch between both systems. If in doubt CCP, whenever making a change like this to a user interface, ALWAYS give your player base the option to choose.
Dictating to us is not something we particularly warm to.
Absolutely! Use this new friggin' tree thing where it belongs: For the ASSETS window!
CCP: Even YOU originally planned to use it there. Read your own website!
http://www.eveonline.com/inferno/unified-inventory-ftr/
Your description of the Unified Inventory on that page is NOT the Unified Inventory you are forcing upon us. That description sounds exactly like the ASSETS window. |
Piral
The Maverick Navy Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 13:30:00 -
[57] - Quote
I WANT THE OLD 'STYLE'
STYLE STYLE STYLE
inventory system back.. i dont want THEE old inventory system back i like it the way it is now.. only the right+click function being taken away was just absolutely ********.. i want that system back and like.. Now.. just redo it so that we can have our old right+click function back that opens to single slot windows (bays) such as for example: fuel bay and cargo bay and oh yes DRONE BAY! ANNND also! this is silly the way i cant open the drone bay of each individual ship in my hangar without gettting into that particular ship.. please fix this.
Over all it is a good job once you reinstate our right+click function again all will be well. (you over complicated the inventory system with this new drop down menu style that is completely alien to us all, you should of made it so we could shoose to have the option to switch back but that is impossible because the reason you redid it in the first place was because of load on the server to client to server, thanks for your efforts, just, next time ask for consensus amongst those who actually 'PLAY' eve online rather than listen to CSM faggotry who have their own agenda' and no real interest in listening to the rest of us in order to provide you with the accurate intel on our wants and non wants. +1 |
Piral
The Maverick Navy Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 13:36:00 -
[58] - Quote
And oh yeah the guy with the post above mine is absolutely correct. you should really do this new system for the 'ASSETS' window rather than for our ENTIRE local inventory system.. if you made a mistake its okay.. but not FIXING the mistake would be an even bigger one. Just fix it no need to over complicated the matter. |
Plain213
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
4
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 13:36:00 -
[59] - Quote
+1 |
Deadparty
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 19:26:00 -
[60] - Quote
+1 Would be nice to have old system back, at least as an option. Also about "Assets" - that's where the new system belongs IMO. Traders will be happy. |
|
Mackenzie Hawkwood
Event Horizon Expeditionaries Apocalypse Now.
21
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 21:24:00 -
[61] - Quote
+1 It is now quicker for me to open corp assets through the corp tab and deliver them to myself in three clicks than try to fight my way through the derpified inventory. but seeing as there has been 5-6 UI feedback threads of at least 40 pages each, which have been abandoned by CCP so they can push the new shiny or sort out Devswarm's wardec problem, I expect this will go nowhere yet again.
Cut Down the UI Tree |
ronna Hita
Science and Trade Institute Caldari State
2
|
Posted - 2012.06.19 22:33:00 -
[62] - Quote
+1 Its annoying as hell when I am quad box mining, and FFS the shift key doesn't always take, Its not fun jet-canning with multiple hulks, it turns into a migraine |
Mother Inlaw
Control Theory
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 19:24:00 -
[63] - Quote
back... what was CCP thinking.
/me throws wet fish and smelly socks at ccp |
Zelman Axe
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
25
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 23:59:00 -
[64] - Quote
I have asked in various threads as to why the UI was changed and not 1 DEV OR GM has answered the question so I will ask it again in here .
WHY WAS THE UI CHANGED the old one worked perfectly well
All we want is one decent reason as to why it was implemented and why we cant choose between old and new . |
Wedieyounge Antilles
SKULLDOGS RED.OverLord
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 05:26:00 -
[65] - Quote
+1
Well said.
Even though I like the new inventory, it not only needs to be improved but you also have to give people the option of using the old system. Just like you did with ship spinning thing. -¼ Wedge Antilles [DKSTM] <SNF>, Commander and Diplomat |
|
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp CCP Engineering Alliance
49
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 11:11:00 -
[66] - Quote
Hi all,
Let me take the time to reply to some of these points specifically
Makalu Zarya wrote:I don't know why i'm posting this since no one important will read it...
a few quick things i'd like to see brought back.
1. An altogether option of using the old system. no fixes no anything, just the exact way it used to be.
seeing how that won't happen here are some ideas.
That is correct, the old system will not come back. We also cannot support two separately coded Inventory systems. The Unified Inventory is here to stay, but we will continue to work on it so that it is something everyone can be happy with.
Makalu Zarya wrote: 2. Separate ships and items please, when I open ships i want to open ships, I don't want to open inventory and then have to seach for where that little line is where the ships up. It is ok when you have time to fiddle with it...but in the heat of a fight when you have switch quickly it is a major pain. I want a totally separate ships window like it used to be...they aren't items and they shouldn't be mashed togeher.
This point is somewhat unclear. You want separate Ships and Items windows. You can do that. The windows persist in stations and remember their size, position, stack and icon view. Dock, grab the ship you want and go. In most cases the tree view is collapsed by default so you don't even have to deal with that.
We are discussing being able to open up separate windows with unique tree views, so a corporation window might only have the divisions in the tree view. Please elaborate if I missed the point here somehow.
Makalu Zarya wrote: 3. Right click options: Where did the options to open fuel bay and ship maint. bay go? Why are CSM members telling me it's less ******* clicks now or asking me why do i just want to open my fuel bay....well i wanna see if i have enough fuel to jump...used to be one click, now yet again i have to open cargo and find where the fuel bay is....will CCP reimburse my carrier when I don't do this quickly enough and not have fuel to GTFO in time? doubt it.
It used to be two clicks, it is now also two clicks (albeit one with a shift).
You could also use the tree view (which follows the same layout as the right click menu used to) and open the fuel bay as soon as you make the ship active. Then you have visibility at all times.
Prior to the Unified Inventory you would also have to open the fuel bay on making a ship active.
Makalu Zarya wrote: 4. The tree and main inventory window are redundant. There doesn't need to be an entry in the tree for every can and/or ship that you have. Double clicking the ship should open a ****NEW**** window with said ships cargohold. Did I write new in large enough letters?
5. shift-click: why??? what was every wrong with double click?
I'll take these points together.
First is a tree view that shows every container location. For consistency sake, everything is shown in the tree view. You can use shift click, but it is clear you would prefer to just double click. We are discussing having an option that would enable shift for the Inventory by default so windows would open up in a new window with a single click. This is not set in stone and we are not promising this feature, but discussing it internally if it makes sense.
One of the design goals for the Unified Inventory was to consolidate Inventory management into as few windows as possible. Theoretically (and this is often how I use the Inventory) you could open up a second window, expand the tree view and now jump between the locations in both windows as required.
Makalu Zarya wrote: 6. Too much stuff in the inventory....so I"m fueling a jump bridge...all i want to see is the damn jump bridge and the can/hauler i'm fueling from....I don't need to see the freaking corp hangar/ship main bay of every single thing in that pos...i seriously don't. I came over to fuel to jump bridge not do anything else.
A few points to this.
You could open the Primary Inventory window, shift click on the windows you would like and then just deal with those.
To further clarify this type of functionality we have specifically done a few things for Inferno 1.1 which will be detailed in the patch notes. But to spell them out here, we are clarifying the difference between the Primary Inventory window and secondary windows. POS structures out of range will now appear grayed out and POS structures are now arranged into categories. The Jump Bridge in particular is within its own category.
Makalu Zarya wrote: 7. Resetting windows...i think this subject has been covered extensively on the forums. Refer to the other five hundred posts on it (yea cause you actually read this stuff)
Always interested in more specific cases about this as there have been a number of bugs we have not been able to fix, but that should be resolved for Inferno 1.1. No distinction between the primary and secondary windows has also led to a lot of confusion and should now be easy to identify. For clarity the Primary window will always shift to display the most immediate Inventory location the user is dealing with, so it is dynamic and changing. Double click to open something, it will open in the Primary. Move off grid of something you were viewing and the primary reverts to the ships cargo hold.
The secondary windows are not dynamic they will show the thing you set them to show in the way you set them up (size, stack, position and icon view). If these locations are no longer available these windows will close (warping off grid, jumping, etc).
Makalu Zarya wrote: General thought...simple tasks that took seconds with the old system now take minutes if not 10s of minutes. It took me over 5 minutes to load up my carrier today...with the old system I would've done it in 30-40 seconds.
My logistics guys are hitting their heads against the wall every time they have to deal with any pos related things. It is literally a nightmare....you took a system that worked perfectly fine that everyone knew how to use and you turned it into this unusable thing that after three weeks of using i cannot get used to.
tl;dr. Don't read anything i wrote an...
|
|
StoneCold
Praetorian Cannibals
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 11:44:00 -
[67] - Quote
Zelman Axe wrote:I have asked in various threads as to why the UI was changed and not 1 DEV OR GM has answered the question so I will ask it again in here .
WHY WAS THE UI CHANGED the old one worked perfectly well
All we want is one decent reason as to why it was implemented and why we cant choose between old and new .
Inferno Inventory - Best played with PS3-controller [/guess] |
Gilbaron
Free-Space-Ranger Ev0ke
264
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 11:53:00 -
[68] - Quote
@RubberBAND:
it would be really awesome if i could "pin" specific hangars for faster access, in the inventory screen itself or even better, to the neocom
i for one would like to have my active ship, my ship and item hangar, 2 corp hangars and the hangars of my alts always on top, i made a screenshot to show what im talking about
http://i.imgur.com/fTl4h.png
also a search box for member hangars for even faster access than the alphabetic list |
Cerys Magente
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 15:25:00 -
[69] - Quote
I find the new inventory cumbersome, and far less efficient to use than the old one. In the old system, stacked and tabbed window groups allowed for quick movement of items between hangars/containers/structures with minimal mouse movement/scrolling required. With the new inventory I seem to be forever scrolling through the tree view to find the container/ship/hangar/structure I need, then scroll again to collapse sections of the tree which are taking up too much vertical space, then scroll again to find the place where the item I want to move is located, then scroll again to find the place where the item is to be moved to. If I hover the mouse over an entry in the tree view for just a fraction of a second too long, the view shifts, and I have to scroll all over again.
A particularly annoying example is maintaining silos, where I want to drag the silo contents to my cargohold. Each time, the tree resets to the location of the now empty silo, and I have to scroll up again to the cargohold. This is not an efficient workflow. An efficient workflow for me is to have my cargohold open, and open the silo via the icon in the 'selected item' part of the overview (usually the silo is already selected as I will have used the 'approach' icon before) in its own window, so that I only need to drag between the 2, and I can see at a glance the status of both. The 'selected item' icon does not offer me the option to right-click on it and select 'open in new window'. Shift-clicking requires both the keyboard and the mouse, and I find it less efficient than being able to right-click or double-click.
Another example where POS management isn't exactly made easier is when arming POS guns. The other day I was checking the ammo status of a large deathstar. The batteries being Amarr, each gun expanded into 2 subsections. Given the number of guns on the tower, after checking about 10 guns, each remaining expanded in the tree view, considerable scrolling was required to get back to the cargohold, grab a crystal, go back and find the correct gun with the empty compartment. I found it far easier in the old system. I prefer clicking to close an extra window to endless scrolling.
I appreciate that some people find the new inventory easier to use. I find that routine tasks now require more time, and a lot more scrolling. I would very much like an option I can toggle on that would always open a new window when the 'open/access' icon in the 'selected item' part of the overview is clicked.
A further annoyance are containers inside hangars. A large number of containers will expand the treeview dramatically - again necessitating a lot of scrolling. Furthermore, audit log secure containers located inside corp hangars seem to be somewhat temperamental. Right-clicking such a container and selecting 'open container' or double-clicking it... opens my cargohold.
Another rather annoying 'feature' arose the other day, when I was in a large carrier fleet. My carrier was configured for fleet use, and I had the inventory open as I wanted to monitor the status of my fuel bay. Whether it was due to the large number of carriers in the vicinity, or the fact that my carrier was configured for fleet use I do not know (I have not observed this phenomenon under other circumstances) , but the inventory tree kept refreshing constantly, resulting in a very irritating flashing effect. Luckily I don't suffer from seizures.
One of the most irritating aspects of the new inventory, however, is the removal of the right-click options to open the fuel bay and other bays on capitals. I don't think it's as simple as comparing the number of clicks required to accomplish the action. Previously, I would right-click on my carrier in the centre of my screen, move the mouse a short distance to find the correct option, and click. To carry out the same action now I need to right-click the carrier and select 'open cargohold' or move the mouse across the screen to open the inventory. Then I need to move the mouse across to the inventory window and expand the tree for my active ship. Then I need to select the fuel bay. All in all, a lot more mouse movement required than a simple right-click in the centre of the screen. Please restore these options to the right-click menu, or give me an option in the ESC menu to toggle 'show capital bay access options in contextual menu'. To save space in the context menu, I would happily forego the option of being able to access the captain's quarters via this menu.
These are some of the issues that make the new inventory less than pleasant for me to use, and detract from my game experience. Some added customisation options, such as being able to toggle whether I want containers/hangars/bays etc to open in a new window rather than the existing one, and restoring functionality to the contextual menu to access my capitals' bays, would go a long way towards improving my game experience. |
Jack Winters
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 15:50:00 -
[70] - Quote
Cerys Magente wrote:I find the new inventory cumbersome, and far less efficient to use than the old one. In the old system, stacked and tabbed window groups allowed for quick movement of items between hangars/containers/structures with minimal mouse movement/scrolling required. With the new inventory I seem to be forever scrolling through the tree view to find the container/ship/hangar/structure I need, then scroll again to collapse sections of the tree which are taking up too much vertical space, then scroll again to find the place where the item I want to move is located, then scroll again to find the place where the item is to be moved to. If I hover the mouse over an entry in the tree view for just a fraction of a second too long, the view shifts, and I have to scroll all over again.
A particularly annoying example is maintaining silos, where I want to drag the silo contents to my cargohold. Each time, the tree resets to the location of the now empty silo, and I have to scroll up again to the cargohold. This is not an efficient workflow. An efficient workflow for me is to have my cargohold open, and open the silo via the icon in the 'selected item' part of the overview (usually the silo is already selected as I will have used the 'approach' icon before) in its own window, so that I only need to drag between the 2, and I can see at a glance the status of both. The 'selected item' icon does not offer me the option to right-click on it and select 'open in new window'. Shift-clicking requires both the keyboard and the mouse, and I find it less efficient than being able to right-click or double-click.
Another example where POS management isn't exactly made easier is when arming POS guns. The other day I was checking the ammo status of a large deathstar. The batteries being Amarr, each gun expanded into 2 subsections. Given the number of guns on the tower, after checking about 10 guns, each remaining expanded in the tree view, considerable scrolling was required to get back to the cargohold, grab a crystal, go back and find the correct gun with the empty compartment. I found it far easier in the old system. I prefer clicking to close an extra window to endless scrolling.
I appreciate that some people find the new inventory easier to use. I find that routine tasks now require more time, and a lot more scrolling. I would very much like an option I can toggle on that would always open a new window when the 'open/access' icon in the 'selected item' part of the overview is clicked.
A further annoyance are containers inside hangars. A large number of containers will expand the treeview dramatically - again necessitating a lot of scrolling. Furthermore, audit log secure containers located inside corp hangars seem to be somewhat temperamental. Right-clicking such a container and selecting 'open container' or double-clicking it... opens my cargohold.
Another rather annoying 'feature' arose the other day, when I was in a large carrier fleet. My carrier was configured for fleet use, and I had the inventory open as I wanted to monitor the status of my fuel bay. Whether it was due to the large number of carriers in the vicinity, or the fact that my carrier was configured for fleet use I do not know (I have not observed this phenomenon under other circumstances) , but the inventory tree kept refreshing constantly, resulting in a very irritating flashing effect. Luckily I don't suffer from seizures.
One of the most irritating aspects of the new inventory, however, is the removal of the right-click options to open the fuel bay and other bays on capitals. I don't think it's as simple as comparing the number of clicks required to accomplish the action. Previously, I would right-click on my carrier in the centre of my screen, move the mouse a short distance to find the correct option, and click. To carry out the same action now I need to right-click the carrier and select 'open cargohold' or move the mouse across the screen to open the inventory. Then I need to move the mouse across to the inventory window and expand the tree for my active ship. Then I need to select the fuel bay. All in all, a lot more mouse movement required than a simple right-click in the centre of the screen. Please restore these options to the right-click menu, or give me an option in the ESC menu to toggle 'show capital bay access options in contextual menu'. To save space in the context menu, I would happily forego the option of being able to access the captain's quarters via this menu.
These are some of the issues that make the new inventory less than pleasant for me to use, and detract from my game experience. Some added customisation options, such as being able to toggle whether I want containers/hangars/bays etc to open in a new window rather than the existing one, and restoring functionality to the contextual menu to access my capitals' bays, would go a long way towards improving my game experience.
+1000
|
|
Milo Caman
Anshar Incorporated
52
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 17:16:00 -
[71] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote: This point is somewhat unclear. You want separate Ships and Items windows. You can do that. The windows persist in stations and remember their size, position, stack and icon view. Dock, grab the ship you want and go. In most cases the tree view is collapsed by default so you don't even have to deal with that.
I assume something like this.
I entirely agree with the OP, this should come back. I should not have to **** around in the inventory system to change my ship, especially now station session timers are gone.
CCP RubberBAND wrote: It used to be two clicks, it is now also two clicks (albeit one with a shift).
You could also use the tree view (which follows the same layout as the right click menu used to) and open the fuel bay as soon as you make the ship active. Then you have visibility at all times.
Prior to the Unified Inventory you would also have to open the fuel bay on making a ship active.
Simply not acceptable. 'Oh you should do it this way instead' after removing functionality, is not the way to go. The right click options were far faster and far easier, as you could very quickly open a bay without all the UI clutter than the new inventory brings. It would not be hard to bring it back, and it would satisfy a lot of people.
CCP RubberBAND wrote: All the quality of life changes in Inferno 1.1 (now on Singularity) should make POS logistics management much, much easier. We have allowed players to rename all POS structures, they are now grouped under one of four types. Each type has a unique icon in the tree view, POS structures out of range will display gray in the tree view, to name the most prominent.
This confirms my suspicions that the folks at CCP involved with the UI have never actually used a POS. Please, for the love of god, look at the masses of player feedback on this and then do something. |
Adrian Dixon
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction -affliction-
45
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 19:51:00 -
[72] - Quote
StoneCold wrote:[quote=Zelman Axe]I have asked in various threads as to why the UI was changed and not 1 DEV OR GM has answered the question so I will ask it again in here .
WHY WAS THE UI CHANGED the old one worked perfectly well
All we want is one decent reason as to why it was implemented and why we cant choose between old and new .
If you remember a good few months ago we got a questionair from CCP by email and the ingame splash screen i think just after cruicible. It had questions about the UI and I would guess the decison to start this project was made based entirely on that questionair.
Any Devs reading this can you add a Unified inventory button to the stations and services window when docked please? I have drawn a simple mock up here; http://imgur.com/c9xBe
Also the active ship in the tree should be static. Ie it should not scroll but stay vissible at the top when you scroll the tree.
global on/off option for get estimated isk value.
I would like to see the old inventory return, some of it remains if you select "Merge items and ships into station pannel" in the settings window this has helped me a lot.
I hate using my noctis with the new inventory system. Its laggy, frustrating and long winded.
I think the unified inventory should have replaced the assets window and everything else should not have been changed.
Right click open ( for all the various bays). Needs to be re-added
Ive tried setting the unified inventory how I want it but between session changes most everything moves and resizes the tree pannel re-opens etc, different UI window sets as the master/main window. its a mess. |
Makalu Zarya
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
44
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 21:15:00 -
[73] - Quote
ok i attempted to imbed all the quattions but failing miserably so I will just write my response to the the dev in the order that it was and clarify the points.
Thanks for replying btw, i hardly expected that.
in any case.
on point #2.
ships and items used to be 2 separate buttons, you clicked whichever one you needed. Now you click the inventory button, which will open to the last thing you had open prior. So if you had a ship cargohold open you once again have that same cargohold open. Howver that is NOT what i want...it i wanted that I would just double click. I want to open my ships...with ONE click, not search throw the tree to find where the little narrow line that says ship hangar is...or even more tedious a specific ship. This might not be a pain when you have 10-15 ships...but at any given time unless i'm deployed there is a good chance there is 50 ships in my hangar.
So if i left my ship tree expanded that is 50 entries that I have to deal with. In any case even if it's not expanded I still have to figure out where the ships are.
on point #3 The right click options. Over the past however many years we have all played...everything was accessible through right click options...while this might not be the best or the only way to do it, we all got used to doing it that way. If you don't know where to find something...right click. Checking my fuel bay was a simple matter of right click capacitor open fuel bay...done. If it's enough it's enough, if it's not, then right click open corp hangar, which opened in a NEW window. That new window had 7 tabs in it, They were separate and easy to navigate. You clicked to the right tab and dragged fuel from that one to fuel bay...done. It was 2 LARGE windows. Now i have to right click open corp hangar. Figure out which small little tab to click and then drag it to another small little tab. Or of course i can shift click to open a new window. While this is no more than it used to be...i count double click as a single click and shift click as 2 clicks. So honestly i have to aim to get something where i want it to be, while not saving any clicks.
Also I'm sitting in a pos doing this...why do I need to see what's in my pos corp hangar while moving fuel from my carrier corp hangar to my carrier fuel bay...things outside my carrier at this very specific moment are not of any use to me...but they are clogging up my inventory.
on point #4 #5 Let me address the shift click and why it's annoying. When you used to open a can, it would open with just a double click. Now you have to shift double click...so we effectively went from 2 clicks to 3. And let me tell you..when you are doing something else, like talking on comms, or w/e that requires some other button being pressed...having to press shift is cumbersome and annoying. Have you ever run a program using shift double click? NO! it's double click..done...i can get used to this...yes i can..but it's extra clicks that no one needs.
As for the redundancy and cumbersomeness. I keep my items in cans...they are High, Mid, Low, faction and a couple other ones. I only have 7 cans in my inventory at most...I've seen people with 10s if not hundreds of cans.Do you even realize what those 100 cans do to the left side of the inventory? We don't need them there...they are just fine being in one place on the right side. The tree doesn't need to have every openable item in it...and while yes...I can just close the tree and not deal with it...the tree is the only way i can get to my ships.
on point #6
i honestly think u missed the point here completely. You told me all the EXTRA things that i need to do to make this simpler...why do I need to do all those extra things? I want to double click can and right lick open fuel bay on jump bridge...that's 3 clicks and a drag...or I can shift click 8 different things and separate my windows out. Great...extra time spent on a routine task.
point #7 i will leave alone...it's annoying nothing else.
as for the pos stuff, you are better off reading things from people who deal with it, i try to avoid posses as much as I can. reading cerys' post a few down from your reply should explain some things however.
as to why it took 10 minutes to load my carrier? Because the tree has way too much stuff in it, so finding the thing that I"m looking for takes time. Shift clicking takes extra work and effort.
You basically reinvented a circular wheel into a square one and are convinced that it still works...yes it will work because you forced it on us with us having no choice in the matter.
There are tons of posts on the forum about why the new system sucks...and most of them come to the same conclusion, it's too cumbersome and doesn't scale well at all and requires too many clicks. Go put 50 ships in your hangar and 50 cans in your item hangar. Put some more cans in your carrier and expand the entire tree...maybe then it'll be clear why this isn't working as intended. |
Captain' Jack Sparrow
199
|
Posted - 2012.06.21 23:33:00 -
[74] - Quote
*snipped*
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
That is correct, the old system will not come back. We also cannot support two separately coded Inventory systems. The Unified Inventory is here to stay, but we will continue to work on it so that it is something everyone can be happy with.
This is very VERY disappointing to hear.
Regarding your statement that you "cannot support two separately coded Inventory systems"... It seems you already are! This new Unified Inventory AND the current assets window. Wouldn't you say?
The best possible thing you could do right now (or, weeks ago) would be to bring back our old inventory system, and put your new toy where it belongs: THE ASSETS WINDOW!
That should please a great many people, and not damage the ego of whomever designed this thing. CCP can also justify the development cost, and save all of the time and headache involved with all of these patches. Come on, why over complicate things?
Heck, the assets window is what you guys originally had in mind, according to your very own website.
See here --->>> http://www.eveonline.com/inferno/unified-inventory-ftr/
Read that, and then tell me if it's anything like the current Unified Inventory. Then try to tell me that does NOT describe the assets window.
Thanks. |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
166
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 03:46:00 -
[75] - Quote
CCP RubberBand wrote:
It used to be two clicks, it is now also two clicks (albeit one with a shift)...
You can use shift click...
You could open the Primary Inventory window, shift click on the windows...
...you could open the Primary window shift click all the locations you needed...
Bullshift.
It will never cease to amaze me how casually it is assumed that shift-clicking is somehow equivalent to the mouse-only gameplay so many players are asking in various ways to see restored. I really (really) dislike having the keyboard in my lap. One hand is supposed to be on the mouse and the other on my after-work, ice-cold, frosty beer.
That's my playstyle.
When my beer hand is on the shift key, and not on my beer, my player experience is diminished. Significantly.
Hope that clears up any confusion.
It's great that windows stay open when you redock but that's not a solution. It's a workaround. I would've normally closed them as I did my work, increasing the station view. Station hangars are supposed to open from a single click on neocom buttons. Even if you manage to make tree entries open new windows with a single click, announcing that the headache tree is my salvation won't be received as great news. I dislike scrolling the tree. It's physically uncomfortable and less efficient. I was going to quote the equally-numerous references to "just use the tree" also but I dislike the tree so completely, its not even worth my time quoting. The tree is just way more eye strain than clicking a button that never moved. I could click that button drunk with one eye closed. Tree-navigation, not so much. In fact, if I hadn't gotten several RL headaches from all the scrolling, I wouldn't even have come up with the term "headache tree." It just won't be for me. If the tree is going to be the way, I just won't do industry anymore. It's that simple really.
The only good thing to come out of this UI for me is that in completely changing my course in EvE, I'm now whipping an older pvp character into shape and I'm going back to null for the rest of the year. It's definately true that a month ago I was building a high-sec empire with the intention of bringing my two brothers to EvE and getting into manufacturing specific items and bp research. I had hoped it would bring us closer but that whole scenario is lost. After listening to me bi*ch, they're not even interested in the game anymore. So for me, the new UI has had the practical effect of multiple headaches, wasting a few months of training time, making my current character pointless really, and obliterating the chance to enjoy the game with my siblings. With such minor consequences, why am I complaining?
C'est la vie.
CCP RubberBand wrote:
One of the design goals for the Unified Inventory was to consolidate Inventory management into as few windows as possible.
Oh yes. We noticed that. And as I'm pretty sure these iterations are now meant to make opening multiple windows more effortless because many players actually relied on multi-windowed functionality, one has to wonder if that original premise was valid, and if the circumstances which led to its adoption have been reevaluated.
A new inventory interface would have been welcome...
without the unification.
Yonis Kador ... |
Silly Slot
Phoenix Evolved Part Duo
33
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 04:08:00 -
[76] - Quote
CCP DEV PLEASE READ....
1. Shift+2 Clicks ... IS NOT THE SAME AS 2 CLICKS! PLEASE FOR THE LOVE OF GOD TELL THE CCP GODS AND DEVS THIS. Every time you guys push the shift click point to the players it gets worse and is just annoying people.
2. and this is a HUGE ONE.... BRING BACK THE RIGHT CLICK FOR GODS SAKE.
Do you realize how many people truely HATE this system for the simple fact that all the quick shortcuts are gone?!?!? Ya in space theres a cargo button on the capacitor, BUT THERE IS NO FUEL/CORP HANGER/ORE BAY SHORTCUT!
Also the fact theres no Ship shortcut means to get to the ship bay went from 1 click to 2 clicks... and no shift doesnt fix that either
Why
WHY
WHY!!!!!!!
Do the devs seem to be so set in there way to not just bring back our frigging shortcuts! We know you can make them, as the cargo bay shortcut is there on the capacitor bar... SO BRING BACK RIGHT CLICK, And the ships shortcut in neocom, why is this such a difficult request?!?!? That seemingly keeps getting ignored CONSTANTLY
You keep saying that you were going to make the game your players wanted... Removal of important shortcuts like these is NOT something the players wanted its something the developers seem to be stuck on.... |
Tess La'Coil
Lightbringer's Sanctuary Fatal Ascension
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 07:42:00 -
[77] - Quote
Cerys Magente wrote:I find the new inventory cumbersome,
Might I ask what resolution/screen size you are using?
Someone once said I was a muppet. If that's so, I'm quite sure the Swedish Chef is my brother.-á |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
166
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 09:02:00 -
[78] - Quote
So I visited Sisi and investigated the new UI changes.
It looks like if you shift-click a hangar division, the UI remembers its size and placement when you shift-click it next. Your active ship is highlighted green in the tree and secondary windows appear green in the neocom. Lots of green.
If I didn't have to scroll around the tree, it would be great. The persistence is improved. But there's no avoiding the headache tree without leaving every possible window open on undocking and never ever closing them again. For anyone who liked seeing their ship in the hangar haha too bad.
Each time I undocked, a primary non-persistent inventory window popped up in the center of my screen full of tree and filters. When closing it and redocking, the primary in-station seemed to be where I left it. Undocked and there it was again. Must be a bug.
I didnt try much else. I next discovered I could fit an Archon in highsec for 100 isk and got quickly sidetracked. My joy was short-lived though when I realized how much the headache tree grows when piloting a capital ship. My eyes were watering from all the scrolling by the time I gave up.
Still, its pretty hard to beat 100isk capital ships.
YK ... |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
244
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 13:14:00 -
[79] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:*****
"cannot support two separately coded Inventory systems"
Nice evading. But we dont want two separated inventory system. Enough for us if just the old inventory system come back. :P
Or just change to default shift click separated windows options to single click (as the old inventory system worked earlier) and just give to the new UI windows open to shift click if someone want to use that crap treepanel merged windows. (1% of players maybe will be use the new shift+click crap, but the others is hate this new ui shift+clickfests) We dont want to use shift+clickfest and scrolling on trees half hour long times, drag and drop from/to two separated windows much-much easier than, looking something on horrible long treepanel. (or option on setting panel for change shift+click >< click to default function when open someone a separated windows) Really hard to programing this. LOL And give back for us right click menus and separated icons which open in separated windows our ship hangars/corp hangars/item hangars/fuelbays etc.
And still not fixed when someone open a ship cargo at station and when change to another ship the inventory still show after ship changes the old ship inventory window with old items and not refreshing to new ship cargobay. |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
747
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 16:02:00 -
[80] - Quote
I must be missing something about the need for more clicks to open a bay while in space
Old system Right click on ship or hud, get a menu left click on bay 2 clicks.
New system Left click on cargo icon at hud Left click on bay in tree 2 clicks, no shift needed.
Edit, there is the sometimes annoying aspect that the little triangle by your ship in the tree is turned the wrong way and you bays are not displayed, requiring a third click. http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
|
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
747
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 16:21:00 -
[81] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Makalu Zarya wrote: 2. Separate ships and items please, when I open ships i want to open ships, I don't want to open inventory and then have to seach for where that little line is where the ships up. It is ok when you have time to fiddle with it...but in the heat of a fight when you have switch quickly it is a major pain. I want a totally separate ships window like it used to be...they aren't items and they shouldn't be mashed togeher.
This point is somewhat unclear. You want separate Ships and Items windows. You can do that. The windows persist in stations and remember their size, position, stack and icon view. Dock, grab the ship you want and go. In most cases the tree view is collapsed by default so you don't even have to deal with that. We are discussing being able to open up separate windows with unique tree views, so a corporation window might only have the divisions in the tree view. Please elaborate if I missed the point here somehow.
What is being asked for is 2 buttons on the Neocom. One directly opens the items window, the other the ship hangar. And a shortcut for each. The idea here is that no matter what state your windows happen to be in, you know by clicking just one button that's always in the same place on the screen, you will be looking at your ships.
Same with the corp hangar. You want one button which is always in the same place on the screen, which when clicked results in you looking at the corp hangar.
Its a muscle-memory thing. You learn that all you need to is go here, click, and you got what you want.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E. Comic Mischief
747
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 16:27:00 -
[82] - Quote
Zelman Axe wrote:I have asked in various threads as to why the UI was changed and not 1 DEV OR GM has answered the question so I will ask it again in here .
WHY WAS THE UI CHANGED the old one worked perfectly well
All we want is one decent reason as to why it was implemented and why we cant choose between old and new .
There is the Dev reason
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=61386&find=unread http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
166
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 16:31:00 -
[83] - Quote
Yes Vincent, Id say that without mention of the need to scroll and hunt down the bay you wish to open, as opposed to right clicking a ship always centered on your screen, you've missed something. (Unless you're scrolling w/o clicking the scroll bar.) But more importantly, you've missed in these thousands of comments that the issue is about multiple windows. Many industrialists rely on them. Your 2+2 scenario ends at the first.
YK ... |
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
144
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:04:00 -
[84] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Hi all,
Let me take the time to reply to some of these points specifically.
It would help if you took the time to read all the threads first. Most of your replies have already had their flaws pointed out.
This is going to be a pain, because your reply already stresses the forum's character and quote limits to the breaking point. Bear with me as I break things into multiple posts.
|
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
144
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:10:00 -
[85] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote: That is correct, the old system will not come back. We also cannot support two separately coded Inventory systems. The Unified Inventory is here to stay, but we will continue to work on it so that it is something everyone can be happy with.
Well, last time I checked on SiSi, a couple of days ago, you *still* have THREE inventory systems.
Before: (1) The one where it just shows you the content of the container, and (2) the Assets window. Now: (1) The one where it just shows you the content of the container, still available when you merge ship and items views into the station panel, (2) the Assets window, which is what needed this overhaul in the first place, and what you guys SAID you were going to do, before you went off the rails, and (3) This new thing, which still looks promising as a replacement for the Assets window.
But, of course, you don't actually need three implementations. One would do -- just reuse the CONTAINER part of the inventory window in exact replacement for the old CONTAINER views, and nobody will even know the code changed. Replace the assets window with a somewhat enhanced tree view (suitable for use in navigation, as the Assets window is now), and you're down to your magical one implementation.
But right now, you're at three. If you follow the general advise you've been getting from the player base, you can get it down to one, but that's not the direction you're headed, sadly. |
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
144
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:23:00 -
[86] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
This point is somewhat unclear. You want separate Ships and Items windows. You can do that. The windows persist in stations and remember their size, position, stack and icon view. Dock, grab the ship you want and go. In most cases the tree view is collapsed by default so you don't even have to deal with that.
We are discussing being able to open up separate windows with unique tree views, so a corporation window might only have the divisions in the tree view. Please elaborate if I missed the point here somehow.
No, you've missed so many points here, I hardly know where to begin.
It sounds like you assume that when we're in station, we just leave the windows open full time, so when we dock, and you reopen them, we don't have to do anything.
Sorry, but that's not even close. When we're in station, there are many activities, involving many different sets of windows. There is no guarantee at all that when we dock, the items and ships windows will be open. As likely as not, we'll have to open them first, and you have taken away all the convenient ways of doing that.
And, we're likely to have to do that several times while we're docked.
I also went through the early tutorials yesterday. Or at least I *think* I found the right starting point. If I did -- I think you're going to confuse the beep out of new players. You really haven't addressed the new player experience with this at all. Even with optimal tutorials, you've complicated the player model. The best way to fix that, is to bring back ALL the direct ways of opening things. THAT is the simple model.
AND, as has been repeatedly pointed out (hence my advice to read before replying), the tree view is not a good substitute for the tabbed corporate hangers. To briefly summarize what has been spelled out in great detail by others, a tree view takes up a lot of horizontal space, and when there are MANY MANY items on it, it becomes QUITE tedious to have to SCROLL THROUGH THE LIST to find the hanger tabs of interest.
This is a pain in stations. It is even MORE of a pain at a POS with multiple hangers, when you're flying an ORCA, etc.
Even if you provide a filtered tree (which is not a bad idea), you still end up wasting a huge amount of horizontal space and screen area.
If you actually provided the ability to select the "Corporate Hanger" and give you a *unified* view of all of the contents, so you could look for fuel blocks under any tab, for example, that would be a good use of the tree view. There, the tree actually adds functionality -- setting the scope of the search.
And it would be perfectly fine to access that from the assets view. No need for the tree view when opening the hanger directly.
Again, all of this has been addressed before. If you hadn't been AWOL on the thread that you guys set up to discuss this, leaving poor CCP Goliath to fend for himself but with no real ability to act (poor guy), you'd be on top of this, and we wouldn't have to be repeating ourselves. |
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
144
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:40:00 -
[87] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote: It used to be two clicks, it is now also two clicks (albeit one with a shift).
You could also use the tree view (which follows the same layout as the right click menu used to) and open the fuel bay as soon as you make the ship active. Then you have visibility at all times.
Prior to the Unified Inventory you would also have to open the fuel bay on making a ship active.
Nice claim. CCP Goliath made it, too. People challenged him and CCP to provide some documentation of just how this would be possible, what possibly we could be missing in the UI that would let us do this.
No response -- just the repeated claim, and the blind expectation that the entire @#$ player base is just too stupid to get the marvels of the new UI, but someday we'll magically see the light.
Well. Let's take a look at this.
I want to open the fuel bay. So I hop on SiSi, and climb into my Moros (which is one hop away, since you turned the system I set up in into a combat system, sigh).
I see two paths:
1) I can open the cargohold, open the tree, expand my ship, shift click on Fuel Bay, close new tree, then click on the fuel bay window again to bring it to the front.
Hmm, that's 6 clicks, one shifted (thus requiring two hands).
Nope, that's not it.
2) I start with the inventory window. If I'm lucky, this saves me the step of opening the tree. Otherwise, exactly the same.
And that's only because both of these open the tree to the top, where my active ship is. If I wanted to access a corporate delivery hanger, for example, I'd have to SCROLL DOWN (using your unique scroll bars that respond to clicks differently than anybody else in the known universe) to locate the right item on the tree.
Is there some magic I'm missing? Me and everybody else?
Again, nothing new here. Please catch up with us, so we can have a productive conversation. |
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
144
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 19:55:00 -
[88] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote: I'll take these points together.
First is a tree view that shows every container location. For consistency sake, everything is shown in the tree view. You can use shift click, but it is clear you would prefer to just double click. We are discussing having an option that would enable shift for the Inventory by default so windows would open up in a new window with a single click. This is not set in stone and we are not promising this feature, but discussing it internally if it makes sense.
One of the design goals for the Unified Inventory was to consolidate Inventory management into as few windows as possible. Theoretically (and this is often how I use the Inventory) you could open up a second window, expand the tree view and now jump between the locations in both windows as required.\
The first paragraph makes sense, more or less, except that doesn't play well with expanding/collapsing trees, especially if you give us the ability to select a higher scope in the tree and see the combined contents. But even without that feature, I predict it's going to be frustrating.
Double-clicking, however, does not have this problem, and extends nicely to being able to select higher levels in the tree.
As for the design goals -- people have ripped so many holes into this goal it's full of swiss cheese. But before we get there, let me point out that you've failed to meet it.
When you loot a container in space, instead of closing the container, you switch the window to the cargohold. That's always an extra, unwanted window. THAT one, you newly introduced. THAT one, get rid of.
Now, let's look at the consequences of your goal. Let's say I'm looking at a corporation hanger, and I want to move stuff from my cargohold to the hanger.
I right click on my ship and choose Open Cargohold.
Oops -- it just REPURPOSED my corpration hanger window.
This happens over, and over, and over again. This is perhaps the single most frustrating thing about this new system -- it thinks you want one window, and that any window you have open is not important, and it can just usurp it.
The assumption you're making is that you know what the player wants to do, better than the player himself.
WRONG. Here's a design goal for you: NEVER EVER usurp an open window to do something else. It fails with looting containers in space, and it fails differently here.
If you select something in the tree view, that is the ONLY time an existing window should change what container it focuses on.
And I have to take particular issue with your last sentence, specifically "you could open up a second window, expand the tree view and now jump between the locations in both windows as required."
First, expand the tree view is a new, added step.
But that's not the end of it. YOU LEFT OUT SEVERAL STEPS -- navigating the tree to the desired container, and clicking on it.
You're not even being honest with yourself here.
Please, as has been repeatedly requested, do a gesture-by-gesture comparison of the common tasks. Look not just for total count, but also predictability and consistency -- scrolling around a large tree view looking for something is much more expensive than just a click in a predictable location.
You'll find, point by point, that the new Unified Inventory is a fail as a replacement for direct access.
It's not really that the unification is a fail. It's that the REPLACEMENT is a fail.
But once again, we repeat ourselves. |
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
144
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 20:00:00 -
[89] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote: A few points to this.
You could open the Primary Inventory window, shift click on the windows you would like and then just deal with those.
To further clarify this type of functionality we have specifically done a few things for Inferno 1.1 which will be detailed in the patch notes. But to spell them out here, we are clarifying the difference between the Primary Inventory window and secondary windows. POS structures out of range will now appear grayed out and POS structures are now arranged into categories. The Jump Bridge in particular is within its own category.
And once again, this is a topic that has been well covered. This primary/secondary window distinction does not correspond to the user model, and adds, not removes, frustration and confusion.
As I've pointed out before, at a POS, the secondary windows end up inadequately labelled, so you can't tell which corporate hanger array you're looking at, for example.
But the primary/secondary distinction leads to other inconsistencies I don't feel like going and researching again. Go read the thread.
|
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
144
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 20:09:00 -
[90] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote: Always interested in more specific cases about this as there have been a number of bugs we have not been able to fix, but that should be resolved for Inferno 1.1. No distinction between the primary and secondary windows has also led to a lot of confusion and should now be easy to identify. For clarity the Primary window will always shift to display the most immediate Inventory location the user is dealing with, so it is dynamic and changing. Double click to open something, it will open in the Primary. Move off grid of something you were viewing and the primary reverts to the ships cargo hold.
The secondary windows are not dynamic they will show the thing you set them to show in the way you set them up (size, stack, position and icon view). If these locations are no longer available these windows will close (warping off grid, jumping, etc).
I've already covered why the behavior of the primary windows are bad. If you combine the point about not retargetting open windows, and the points about the inconstant behaviors, and the additional point I haven't repeated here yet, that there is no reliable visible distinction between the two very different window types, you get to what, to me, is an inescapable conclusion:
Get rid of primary windows. They are a bug.
And no, even on SiSi, they are not easy to identify. If they happen to be the same size and shape, as near as I can tell, they are pixel-for-pixel identical, in many cases. As near as I can tell, the only time they differ, is that a primary window will show the path in the title bar, giving you context of just WHICH hanger's "SHIPS AND EQUIPMENT" division you're looking at, but secondary just says "SHIPS AND EQUIPMENT".
But if you're looking at a top-level container, there's no distinction whatsoever. |
|
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
144
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 20:26:00 -
[91] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote: Why specifically did the loading of a carrier take five minutes? How many windows did you need. What part took you a long time? Locating the ship? Finding the Inventory windows you needed?
Depending on how many windows you needed you could open the Primary window shift click all the locations you needed and then just move the items as you would have in the old systems.
All the quality of life changes in Inferno 1.1 (now on Singularity) should make POS logistics management much, much easier. We have allowed players to rename all POS structures, they are now grouped under one of four types. Each type has a unique icon in the tree view, POS structures out of range will display gray in the tree view, to name the most prominent.
Finally as stated in the opening the old Inventory system as you knew it will not come back, but with enough open discussion and constructive debate you guys can help shape the Unified Inventory so that it is something we can all be happy to use.
Also a "+1" says nothing to us, so if you have specific use cases please elaborate. Unless each of you had EXACTLY the same problems Makalu Zarya had...
Changing a workflow some of you may have been dealing with for close to 9 years is undeniably difficult, so we will continue to iterate and build a Unified Inventory that meets the requirements you guys need.
Thanks!
The reason things take longer are pretty much covered in the points I repeated above, and more that are covered in the original thread.
Opening all the inventory windows you need is much more time-consuming now, and it involves messing with inventory on both sides of the transfers. It not only takes more time, it is less predictable, subject to frustration as the primary windows go do random unwanted things, or the secondary windows leave you guessing as to which hanger you're looking at (even though you NAMED the friggin things precisely to avoid that confusion).
By the way, yes, the ability to name things is a VAST improvement. What took so long? But I've named all my guns and things, and now when I play starbase defender, I can tell what I'm doing. See, that's what a UI improvement looks like -- making things more clear, saving steps, reducing confusion.
But please take note of this: The reason you're seeing all these 1+'s is because THESE ARE NOT EDGE CASES. These really ARE things where lots and lots of people are hitting the exact same issues, over and over and over again.
And they've been telling you about them, over and over again. And you're not listening.
You don't need people telling you more specific details. The problems have been detailed into the ground. Until you start actually responding to the details already provided, you're just annoying the customer base.
Lots and lots of us have put in CONSIDERABLE effort in giving you guys constructive, actionable feedback, both with respect to a process and communications, that won't **** off your player base, and detailed suggestions for how to properly integrate this and make it work well.
People have even gone to the trouble of making actual prototypes, and walking you through them with YouTube videos.
Frankly, I think the player community has put more thought and analysis and work into the design than you have. And I say that knowing full well what's involved in doing a UI design -- we're talking about a LOT of thought, and a lot of work in attempting to communicate these thoughts to you.
But it is plain that there's a lot of players out here who have a better handle on what the players have been telling you than you do.
This makes for an enormous amount of frustration.
And finally, please get it out of your head that the issue here is changing workflow. This isn't players resisting change. This is players struggling to work even half as efficiently with these things. And despite having been repeatedly challenged to demonstrate how the new system is even no worse than the old, CCP has repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot.
The general challenge has gone unanswered. There have been a few attempts, as you did, to suggest a parity, but on closer examination, that "parity" has been an illusion. Every. Single. Time.
There was nothing wrong with the old workflow. There was not even anything incompatible with the new inventory windows. The old model was simple and direct: To look inside something, open it.
"Too many container windows" was not a problem that needed solving, and you didn't solve it.
As detailed in the ORIGINAL dev post about this, the problem to be solved was "finding all my stuff". That's the assets window. But you veered off the track, and made it hard to get the stuff we already KNOW where is. |
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
144
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 20:27:00 -
[92] - Quote
And after all those posts -- NOT ONE POST failed and discarded my input.
Maybe that forum software bug has been fixed? Hurray! |
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
144
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 20:37:00 -
[93] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND:
Please go read all 907 posts in this thread: https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=117617
Please post here and there when you have completed this task.
Until you've actually read the player feedback, we cannot take you seriously.
Thank you. |
Captain' Jack Sparrow
202
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 22:57:00 -
[94] - Quote
CCP: Please take the time to read ZaBob's posts above. Every word.
ZaBob: Thank you for taking the time to write such a detailed and accurate description of what we, the players, are actually going through. Well done!
|
IWolfMasterI
Macabre Votum Against ALL Authorities
13
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 23:46:00 -
[95] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Depending on how many windows you needed you could open the Primary window shift click all the locations you needed and then just move the items as you would have in the old systems.
I think part of the issue is that some of us don't wanna have to hold shift to open separate windows, like we don't have enough hot keys as it is. I personally love having multiple windows so I can physically see all the things I need at once ex: fuel bay/ cooperate hanger open at the same time. Maybe have the fuel bay in the right click menu and when accessed through the right click menu it open a secondary window automatically?
I think by stringing things to the right click menu to automatically open a secondary window would fix most of the concerns many of us have with the inventory. By doing so, you keep the initial primary inventory method but allow for nearly the same functionality that so many of us are used to if we go through the right click menu instead of through the primary inventory window. I know for me this would quelle all my complaints about the new systems functionality. |
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
164
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 00:12:00 -
[96] - Quote
IWolfMasterI wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:Depending on how many windows you needed you could open the Primary window shift click all the locations you needed and then just move the items as you would have in the old systems. I think part of the issue is that some of us don't wanna have to hold shift to open separate windows, like we don't have enough hot keys as it is. I personally love having multiple windows so I can physically see all the things I need at once ex: fuel bay/ cooperate hanger open at the same time. Maybe have the fuel bay in the right click menu and when accessed through the right click menu it open a secondary window automatically? I think by stringing things to the right click menu to automatically open a secondary window would fix most of the concerns many of us have with the inventory. By doing so, you keep the initial primary inventory method but allow for nearly the same functionality that so many of us are used to if we go through the right click menu instead of through the primary inventory window. I know for me this would quelle all my complaints about the new systems functionality.
If all these right click things opened secondary windows (which they should) then the only thing that'd open a primary window is Open Inventory, and there'd be really no reason to have that be a primary window, because the only real difference is that a primary window gets usurped when you right click or do other actions that directly open a new container.
But you're entirely right --- putting back all the buttons and shortcuts to get at all of this stuff, and making them open secondary windows, really does get at the bulk of the complaints. It is the single most important fix that we need, and I suggest CCP make it top priority. |
Rock Kicker
Full Bore Inc Sobriety Test Failures
43
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 01:00:00 -
[97] - Quote
ZaBob wrote:IWolfMasterI wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:Depending on how many windows you needed you could open the Primary window shift click all the locations you needed and then just move the items as you would have in the old systems. I think part of the issue is that some of us don't wanna have to hold shift to open separate windows, like we don't have enough hot keys as it is. I personally love having multiple windows so I can physically see all the things I need at once ex: fuel bay/ cooperate hanger open at the same time. Maybe have the fuel bay in the right click menu and when accessed through the right click menu it open a secondary window automatically? I think by stringing things to the right click menu to automatically open a secondary window would fix most of the concerns many of us have with the inventory. By doing so, you keep the initial primary inventory method but allow for nearly the same functionality that so many of us are used to if we go through the right click menu instead of through the primary inventory window. I know for me this would quelle all my complaints about the new systems functionality. If all these right click things opened secondary windows (which they should) then the only thing that'd open a primary window is Open Inventory, and there'd be really no reason to have that be a primary window, because the only real difference is that a primary window gets usurped when you right click or do other actions that directly open a new container. But you're entirely right --- putting back all the buttons and shortcuts to get at all of this stuff, and making them open secondary windows, really does get at the bulk of the complaints. It is the single most important fix that we need, and I suggest CCP make it top priority.
Add to this an option to have array divisions back in tabs across the top of a window vs. having to expand the tree/select division/collapse tree and I'd definitely be a happy camper.
|
Makalu Zarya
Rage and Terror Against ALL Authorities
45
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 09:03:00 -
[98] - Quote
great reply by ZaBob to complement most of the things that have been already said before...CCP i really hope you take a look and everything that has been posted here...
and here is my shameless bump of this thread back to the top...READ IT....AGAIN |
Adrian Dixon
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction -affliction-
46
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 10:06:00 -
[99] - Quote
ZaBob wrote:[quote=CCP RubberBAND] Get rid of primary windows. They are a bug. This is very true. |
Adrian Dixon
Arbitrary Spaceship Destruction -affliction-
46
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 11:01:00 -
[100] - Quote
The unified inventory does not even have a forward and back button. Its just changed my window from my cargo hold to a wreck that i double clicked. To get back to the cargo hold I have to either;
1.reopen the tree, 2.resize the window, 3.scroll, 4.select the cargo hold, 5.reclose the tree, 6resize the window.
Or ; 1.Close the window i have open. 2.Open the unified inventory from the neocom 3.close the tree view 4.resize the window, 5.reposition the window 6. reset pin settings.
In the old system i could have;
1. closed the wreck and my old cargo window remaind or; 1. looted the wreck and the wreck would automaticaly close. |
|
Jeff simply
Simply Enterprises
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 16:20:00 -
[101] - Quote
The thing that is really annoying me with the new inventory is when you have a Corp hanger for a Carrier open, and then you change ships, the Corp hanger window is automatically changed to the new active ship.
Doesn't matter how many windows are already open (which I am quite liking), the auto switching is quite annoying. |
Ciprian
Tr0pa de elite. Against ALL Authorities
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.23 18:36:00 -
[102] - Quote
+1 roll it back pls |
Diamonica Norya
University of Caille Gallente Federation
71
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 02:34:00 -
[103] - Quote
ZaBob wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote: Why specifically did the loading of a carrier take five minutes? How many windows did you need. What part took you a long time? Locating the ship? Finding the Inventory windows you needed?
Depending on how many windows you needed you could open the Primary window shift click all the locations you needed and then just move the items as you would have in the old systems.
All the quality of life changes in Inferno 1.1 (now on Singularity) should make POS logistics management much, much easier. We have allowed players to rename all POS structures, they are now grouped under one of four types. Each type has a unique icon in the tree view, POS structures out of range will display gray in the tree view, to name the most prominent.
Finally as stated in the opening the old Inventory system as you knew it will not come back, but with enough open discussion and constructive debate you guys can help shape the Unified Inventory so that it is something we can all be happy to use.
Also a "+1" says nothing to us, so if you have specific use cases please elaborate. Unless each of you had EXACTLY the same problems Makalu Zarya had...
Changing a workflow some of you may have been dealing with for close to 9 years is undeniably difficult, so we will continue to iterate and build a Unified Inventory that meets the requirements you guys need.
Thanks!
The reason things take longer are pretty much covered in the points I repeated above, and more that are covered in the original thread. Opening all the inventory windows you need is much more time-consuming now, and it involves messing with inventory on both sides of the transfers. It not only takes more time, it is less predictable, subject to frustration as the primary windows go do random unwanted things, or the secondary windows leave you guessing as to which hanger you're looking at (even though you NAMED the friggin things precisely to avoid that confusion). By the way, yes, the ability to name things is a VAST improvement. What took so long? But I've named all my guns and things, and now when I play starbase defender, I can tell what I'm doing. See, that's what a UI improvement looks like -- making things more clear, saving steps, reducing confusion. But please take note of this: The reason you're seeing all these 1+'s is because THESE ARE NOT EDGE CASES. These really ARE things where lots and lots of people are hitting the exact same issues, over and over and over again. And they've been telling you about them, over and over again. And you're not listening. You don't need people telling you more specific details. The problems have been detailed into the ground. Until you start actually responding to the details already provided, you're just annoying the customer base. Lots and lots of us have put in CONSIDERABLE effort in giving you guys constructive, actionable feedback, both with respect to a process and communications, that won't **** off your player base, and detailed suggestions for how to properly integrate this and make it work well. People have even gone to the trouble of making actual prototypes, and walking you through them with YouTube videos. Frankly, I think the player community has put more thought and analysis and work into the design than you have. And I say that knowing full well what's involved in doing a UI design -- we're talking about a LOT of thought, and a lot of work in attempting to communicate these thoughts to you. But it is plain that there's a lot of players out here who have a better handle on what the players have been telling you than you do. This makes for an enormous amount of frustration. And finally, please get it out of your head that the issue here is changing workflow. This isn't players resisting change. This is players struggling to work even half as efficiently with these things. And despite having been repeatedly challenged to demonstrate how the new system is even no worse than the old, CCP has repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot. The general challenge has gone unanswered. There have been a few attempts, as you did, to suggest a parity, but on closer examination, that "parity" has been an illusion. Every. Single. Time. There was nothing wrong with the old workflow. There was not even anything incompatible with the new inventory windows. The old model was simple and direct: To look inside something, open it. "Too many container windows" was not a problem that needed solving, and you didn't solve it. As detailed in the ORIGINAL dev post about this, the problem to be solved was "finding all my stuff". That's the assets window. But you veered off the track, and made it hard to get the stuff we already KNOW where is.
Hi,
Since the dev who replied this thread wants everyone to voice out their EXACT CONCERNS instead of +1's to make the most use of their forum features or else they don't think it's important or worth reading. I decided to just copy one of the post that speaks out a lot of my personal feelings and experiences (sorry ZaBob for copying) and can't be bothered to type the whole thing up myself. This is how I interpret CCP's requirement for ppl to express concerns from this point onward.
I'm considering getting into the process of copying every single post that I've just +1'ed since +1 is not going to do anything as per the Dev's own word, instead, we have to SPELL things out word by word and repeat for every individual person that feel the same on some opinions. |
SportBilly
GHOSTS OF THE FIRST AND ONLY
35
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 05:57:00 -
[104] - Quote
Diamonica Norya wrote:ZaBob wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote: Why specifically did the loading of a carrier take five minutes? How many windows did you need. What part took you a long time? Locating the ship? Finding the Inventory windows you needed?
Depending on how many windows you needed you could open the Primary window shift click all the locations you needed and then just move the items as you would have in the old systems.
All the quality of life changes in Inferno 1.1 (now on Singularity) should make POS logistics management much, much easier. We have allowed players to rename all POS structures, they are now grouped under one of four types. Each type has a unique icon in the tree view, POS structures out of range will display gray in the tree view, to name the most prominent.
Finally as stated in the opening the old Inventory system as you knew it will not come back, but with enough open discussion and constructive debate you guys can help shape the Unified Inventory so that it is something we can all be happy to use.
Also a "+1" says nothing to us, so if you have specific use cases please elaborate. Unless each of you had EXACTLY the same problems Makalu Zarya had...
Changing a workflow some of you may have been dealing with for close to 9 years is undeniably difficult, so we will continue to iterate and build a Unified Inventory that meets the requirements you guys need.
Thanks!
The reason things take longer are pretty much covered in the points I repeated above, and more that are covered in the original thread. Opening all the inventory windows you need is much more time-consuming now, and it involves messing with inventory on both sides of the transfers. It not only takes more time, it is less predictable, subject to frustration as the primary windows go do random unwanted things, or the secondary windows leave you guessing as to which hanger you're looking at (even though you NAMED the friggin things precisely to avoid that confusion). By the way, yes, the ability to name things is a VAST improvement. What took so long? But I've named all my guns and things, and now when I play starbase defender, I can tell what I'm doing. See, that's what a UI improvement looks like -- making things more clear, saving steps, reducing confusion. But please take note of this: The reason you're seeing all these 1+'s is because THESE ARE NOT EDGE CASES. These really ARE things where lots and lots of people are hitting the exact same issues, over and over and over again. And they've been telling you about them, over and over again. And you're not listening. You don't need people telling you more specific details. The problems have been detailed into the ground. Until you start actually responding to the details already provided, you're just annoying the customer base. Lots and lots of us have put in CONSIDERABLE effort in giving you guys constructive, actionable feedback, both with respect to a process and communications, that won't **** off your player base, and detailed suggestions for how to properly integrate this and make it work well. People have even gone to the trouble of making actual prototypes, and walking you through them with YouTube videos. Frankly, I think the player community has put more thought and analysis and work into the design than you have. And I say that knowing full well what's involved in doing a UI design -- we're talking about a LOT of thought, and a lot of work in attempting to communicate these thoughts to you. But it is plain that there's a lot of players out here who have a better handle on what the players have been telling you than you do. This makes for an enormous amount of frustration. And finally, please get it out of your head that the issue here is changing workflow. This isn't players resisting change. This is players struggling to work even half as efficiently with these things. And despite having been repeatedly challenged to demonstrate how the new system is even no worse than the old, CCP has repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot. The general challenge has gone unanswered. There have been a few attempts, as you did, to suggest a parity, but on closer examination, that "parity" has been an illusion. Every. Single. Time. There was nothing wrong with the old workflow. There was not even anything incompatible with the new inventory windows. The old model was simple and direct: To look inside something, open it. "Too many container windows" was not a problem that needed solving, and you didn't solve it. As detailed in the ORIGINAL dev post about this, the problem to be solved was "finding all my stuff". That's the assets window. But you veered off the track, and made it hard to get the stuff we already KNOW where is. Hi, Since the dev who replied this thread wants everyone to voice out their EXACT CONCERNS instead of +1's to make the most use of their forum features or else they don't think it's important or worth reading. I decided to just copy one of the post that speaks out a lot of my personal feelings and experiences (sorry ZaBob for copying) and can't be bothered to type the whole thing up myself. This is how I interpret CCP's requirement for ppl to express concerns from this point onward. I'm considering getting into the process of copying every single post that I've just +1'ed since +1 is not going to do anything as per the Dev's own word, instead, we have to SPELL things out word by word and repeat for every individual person that feel the same on some opinions.
And I concure also, i couldnt of put it better myself. |
SportBilly
GHOSTS OF THE FIRST AND ONLY
35
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 05:59:00 -
[105] - Quote
SportBilly wrote:Diamonica Norya wrote:ZaBob wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote: Why specifically did the loading of a carrier take five minutes? How many windows did you need. What part took you a long time? Locating the ship? Finding the Inventory windows you needed?
Depending on how many windows you needed you could open the Primary window shift click all the locations you needed and then just move the items as you would have in the old systems.
All the quality of life changes in Inferno 1.1 (now on Singularity) should make POS logistics management much, much easier. We have allowed players to rename all POS structures, they are now grouped under one of four types. Each type has a unique icon in the tree view, POS structures out of range will display gray in the tree view, to name the most prominent.
Finally as stated in the opening the old Inventory system as you knew it will not come back, but with enough open discussion and constructive debate you guys can help shape the Unified Inventory so that it is something we can all be happy to use.
Also a "+1" says nothing to us, so if you have specific use cases please elaborate. Unless each of you had EXACTLY the same problems Makalu Zarya had...
Changing a workflow some of you may have been dealing with for close to 9 years is undeniably difficult, so we will continue to iterate and build a Unified Inventory that meets the requirements you guys need.
Thanks!
The reason things take longer are pretty much covered in the points I repeated above, and more that are covered in the original thread. Opening all the inventory windows you need is much more time-consuming now, and it involves messing with inventory on both sides of the transfers. It not only takes more time, it is less predictable, subject to frustration as the primary windows go do random unwanted things, or the secondary windows leave you guessing as to which hanger you're looking at (even though you NAMED the friggin things precisely to avoid that confusion). By the way, yes, the ability to name things is a VAST improvement. What took so long? But I've named all my guns and things, and now when I play starbase defender, I can tell what I'm doing. See, that's what a UI improvement looks like -- making things more clear, saving steps, reducing confusion. But please take note of this: The reason you're seeing all these 1+'s is because THESE ARE NOT EDGE CASES. These really ARE things where lots and lots of people are hitting the exact same issues, over and over and over again. And they've been telling you about them, over and over again. And you're not listening. You don't need people telling you more specific details. The problems have been detailed into the ground. Until you start actually responding to the details already provided, you're just annoying the customer base. Lots and lots of us have put in CONSIDERABLE effort in giving you guys constructive, actionable feedback, both with respect to a process and communications, that won't **** off your player base, and detailed suggestions for how to properly integrate this and make it work well. People have even gone to the trouble of making actual prototypes, and walking you through them with YouTube videos. Frankly, I think the player community has put more thought and analysis and work into the design than you have. And I say that knowing full well what's involved in doing a UI design -- we're talking about a LOT of thought, and a lot of work in attempting to communicate these thoughts to you. But it is plain that there's a lot of players out here who have a better handle on what the players have been telling you than you do. This makes for an enormous amount of frustration. And finally, please get it out of your head that the issue here is changing workflow. This isn't players resisting change. This is players struggling to work even half as efficiently with these things. And despite having been repeatedly challenged to demonstrate how the new system is even no worse than the old, CCP has repeatedly demonstrated that you cannot. The general challenge has gone unanswered. There have been a few attempts, as you did, to suggest a parity, but on closer examination, that "parity" has been an illusion. Every. Single. Time. There was nothing wrong with the old workflow. There was not even anything incompatible with the new inventory windows. The old model was simple and direct: To look inside something, open it. "Too many container windows" was not a problem that needed solving, and you didn't solve it. As detailed in the ORIGINAL dev post about this, the problem to be solved was "finding all my stuff". That's the assets window. But you veered off the track, and made it hard to get the stuff we already KNOW where is. Hi, Since the dev who replied this thread wants everyone to voice out their EXACT CONCERNS instead of +1's to make the most use of their forum features or else they don't think it's important or worth reading. I decided to just copy one of the post that speaks out a lot of my personal feelings and experiences (sorry ZaBob for copying) and can't be bothered to type the whole thing up myself. This is how I interpret CCP's requirement for ppl to express concerns from this point onward. I'm considering getting into the process of copying every single post that I've just +1'ed since +1 is not going to do anything as per the Dev's own word, instead, we have to SPELL things out word by word and repeat for every individual person that feel the same on some opinions. And I concure also, i couldnt of put it better myself.
|
Arushia
Nova Labs New Eden Research.
24
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 06:53:00 -
[106] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote: We also cannot support two separately coded Inventory systems.
No-one is asking for that. We are asking that the "new" inventory system be purged with fire and the old system returned, as it was vastly superior.
Tired of lab queues in high-sec? Check out New Eden Research |
Arcane Sun
Absense of Imagination
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 17:59:00 -
[107] - Quote
But you forget, if they READ the posts then they would probably feel like a$$holes for ignoring their entire player base. No I assume they will stay their course and proceed to cover their ears and yell BLAH BLAH BLAH BLAH until the unsub rates get so high that they will have to write yet another letter begging the players not to leave again. It's only been a year and they are already pulling the same old crap, i guess its true that you can't teach an old dog new tricks. unless that new trick is pissing off an entire gaming community.
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Makalu Zarya wrote: 2. Separate ships and items please, when I open ships i want to open ships, I don't want to open inventory and then have to seach for where that little line is where the ships up. It is ok when you have time to fiddle with it...but in the heat of a fight when you have switch quickly it is a major pain. I want a totally separate ships window like it used to be...they aren't items and they shouldn't be mashed togeher.
This point is somewhat unclear. You want separate Ships and Items windows. You can do that. The windows persist in stations and remember their size, position, stack and icon view. Dock, grab the ship you want and go. In most cases the tree view is collapsed by default so you don't even have to deal with that. We are discussing being able to open up separate windows with unique tree views, so a corporation window might only have the divisions in the tree view. Please elaborate if I missed the point here somehow. JUST GIVE US OUR SHIPS BUTTON BACK ON THE NEOCOM PLEASE. How's that for clarity. |
Talon SilverHawk
Patria o Muerte
487
|
Posted - 2012.06.24 22:39:00 -
[108] - Quote
+1
Tal
|
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
136
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 02:02:00 -
[109] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote: You can do that. The windows persist in stations and remember their size, position, stack and icon view. Dock, grab the ship you want and go. In most cases the tree view is collapsed by default so you don't even have to deal with that.
Umm, i tried to seperate my ships/items windows right after you guys claimed the 'persistent" windows...it did NOT WORK. Period. It remembered that one of my windows was ships, and just forgot that i had the other window, or would have it open (displaying my ships cargo) and NO LONGER TABBED literally right on top of the 'ships' window.
And now, b/c i had tried to collapse the "tree" for those, i now have a tree window that is exactly 3 characters wide every time i change states. Regardless of how many times i try to resize it, it remains broken. The last resort i have is to do a full GUI reset to get that back to where it was, and i'd rather not deal with that.
I tried to adjust it, and now i'm living with an even more broken system than it was before...this is why everyone is hating on you guys, b/c a vast majority of players never asked for this, then when they told you it was really REALLY broken you ignored them for an entire month while you apparently never tried to play as a player would through the entire 'testing' phase. http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
208
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 02:53:00 -
[110] - Quote
Panhead4411 wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote: You can do that. The windows persist in stations and remember their size, position, stack and icon view. Dock, grab the ship you want and go. In most cases the tree view is collapsed by default so you don't even have to deal with that.
Umm, i tried to seperate my ships/items windows right after you guys claimed the 'persistent" windows...it did NOT WORK. Period. It remembered that one of my windows was ships, and just forgot that i had the other window, or would have it open (displaying my ships cargo) and NO LONGER TABBED literally right on top of the 'ships' window. And now, b/c i had tried to collapse the "tree" for those, i now have a tree window that is exactly 3 characters wide every time i change states. Regardless of how many times i try to resize it, it remains broken. The last resort i have is to do a full GUI reset to get that back to where it was, and i'd rather not deal with that. I tried to adjust it, and now i'm living with an even more broken system than it was before...this is why everyone is hating on you guys, b/c a vast majority of players never asked for this, then when they told you it was really REALLY broken you ignored them for an entire month while you apparently never tried to play as a player would through the entire 'testing' phase.
I suspect that the "other window" is your primary window. It's job is to perpetually change what it shows, depending on what operate on, unless you have the shift key down.
Pretty much, the secondary windows are what we want, and the primary window is an abomination.
And that's how you can tell them apart.
There's actually a bit of a subtle reason for wanting something sort of like the primary window, but I don't even want to go into it. Getting rid of the primary window would force things down the right path.
Anyway, my recommendation: Any time you end up bringing up the primary window, move it someplace awkard, minimize it, and repeat whatever you did to bring it up, but with the shift key down this time.
You move it somewhere awkward so you can recognize it and avoid using it. |
|
Gevlin
Universal Might DSM FOUNDATION
164
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 03:47:00 -
[111] - Quote
I am still only playing on the tranguility server. Have not tested what is on the test server currently
I am personally happy with the new inventory system. It ties everything in one spot. I Ship click the item I want to work in and then I can distribute down the tabs quickly
Personally I have not tried the ui at a POS. and when the new POS's come out some of the head ache is going to go away.
I appreciate the hard work you are doing on the UI and adding functionality to it.
With other feature it could be turned off and on, I feel with the UI system you really can't do that.
Is it possible to tell us what this New UI does for us and what it will allow in the future? You probably have already stated it so please link it.
From the feel of it anyone who is familiar with windows should breeze through the new UI inventory. Infact if look like the market place to some degree.
Please keep up the work. I know it is stresful and I feel alot of people are looking for something to rage about this summer and the UI inventory team seams to be the current scape goat. You are communicating with us, You are making changes, You are listening, That I thank you.
As said at fan feast CCP is working on tools for the game to allow further interation possible in this expansion. I am Assuming that the UI Inventory is one of them.
BTW I just LOVE..... you here me LOVE!!! LOVE LOVE LOVE!!! the filter option of Ore and Materials. No longer am I going to select all and have my Tech II mining crystals end up in the Ore jet can I am filling... YOU HERE ME CCP I JUST LOVE THAT FEATURE!!!!! we can also shout positive things too.
-1
PS I think you need to do a Shift Click Campaign for the UI many people still don't under stand that.
The Goons are Coming, The Goons are Coming Jita the April 28, Hulk a geddon April 29 for a month. The Best Tears are the Geifer's Tears. just hope the new crime watch system is in place by then.... oh the chaos will rain!!! |
Thufir Hawaat
VVS Corporition Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 09:30:00 -
[112] - Quote
+1. I want either optional newstyle/oldstyle or fully customizable inventory. |
Chrystopher Sinwulf
Republic University Minmatar Republic
0
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 13:30:00 -
[113] - Quote
+1 |
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
257
|
Posted - 2012.06.25 20:05:00 -
[114] - Quote
What suggestions needs for UI than any cosmetic fixes.
1. Buttons for Neocom for Ships, Items, Corp hangar which is can open with single click with separated windows and closed treeview. 2. Give an options for us to change default method from Shift+click to single click and vica-versa. 3. Right click options on ships for opening drone bay, cargo bay, fuel bay, ship maintenance bay etc 4. Option to disable the ISK estimated prices. 5. Fix when someone change ship, but the old ship cargo hold does not change to new active selected ship cargohold |
Lauren Sheaperd
Cry Wolf.
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 09:32:00 -
[115] - Quote
+1, /supported, whatever. The new inventory is horrible. |
mrpapageorgio
78
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:15:00 -
[116] - Quote
Ribikoka wrote:What suggestions needs for UI than any cosmetic fixes.
1. Buttons for Neocom for Ships, Items, Corp hangar which is can open with single click with separated windows and closed treeview. 2. Give an options for us to change default method from Shift+click to single click and vica-versa. 3. Right click options on ships for opening drone bay, cargo bay, fuel bay, ship maintenance bay etc 4. Option to disable the ISK estimated prices. 5. Fix when someone change ship, but the old ship cargo hold does not change to new active selected ship cargohold
This exactly. And no more of this primary window behavior, where it can be hijacked to some new container.
Also scrolling forever in the tree is awful. Tabs are much more useful because there is much more horizontal space to work with preventing the need to scroll.
I can't stress point 1 enough. I desperately want individual neocom icons for each of these items. |
Zendon Taredi
ZT Bank
20
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 10:41:00 -
[117] - Quote
just a suggestion,. take the tree and put it as a mouse over on the inventory button. then open new windows when a branch of the tree is selected. |
Captain Praxis
EVE University Ivy League
91
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:55:00 -
[118] - Quote
Cross-posted from the Inferno 1.1 Feedback thread:
Tippia wrote:... This UI has been live for less than a month, and you've had roughly two months of feedback, and you're already adding huge kludges to fix problems that shouldn't have been there to begin with. This whole mess about GÇ£primaryGÇ¥ and GÇ£secondaryGÇ¥ inventory windows you've introduced only results in one thing: more windows, more duplication, more clicking, less intuitiveness. Yes, you added back some rclick items to open special bays. Good job. Too bad they don't open in any kind of remotely sane location. They all go into the GÇ£primaryGÇ¥ window, which means the functionality is completely redundant. The reason to have them in a rclick menu is to gain quick access to the bays GÇö what happens now is that they act as a mechanism to slow down your access to other stuff, because opening them that way means you reset a window that is (probably) already being used for something else. The same goes for the cargo hold button GÇö it opens my cargo hold in the GÇ£primaryGÇ¥ window, completely overwriting what I had set it up to show. None of these buttons are even remotely aware of the fact that I already have windows set up to show these locations, and they will happily open new instances/reset an existing window rather than focus on the window already showing what I'm after. The old UI never had these problems because every inventory was its own window. Opening the inventory in question opened the associated window. Since the two are now disassociated, you will never really be sure of what will open where unless you do everything very deliberately and entirely manually (going through the whole shift-click-and-place-into-stack rigmarole), which is far more cumbersome under the new system than under the old one. This amount of kludginess at this stage of the development phase GÇö when you're still adding lost basic functionality back in GÇö only points to one thing: the underlying design concept is fundamentally flawed. This is the kind of mess you'd see after years and years of quick-patching surprising edge cases (cf. CrimeWatch), not something you should see right out the gate, and definitely not something you should see as a result of just trying to make the core functionality work. You haven't even begun to touch on the edge cases, and we're already seeing end-of-life feeping creaturism and function confusion. I've tried to stay away from the GÇ£roll backGÇ¥ line of thinking, but if the state of the code is this bad, maybe it's an option you should start to exploreGǪ or if not that, then declare this code path dead, much like how you did with the GÇ£Old New NeoComGÇ¥ (the one that got shelved because CoreUI was around the corner) and try again, this time with the first-line goal of simply being able to do what the old UI could do.
This hits the nail right on the head and pretty much expresses exactly how I feel about the new UI.
I think it's pretty obvious to anybody sane that the underlying goal and design of the Unified Inventory is totally wrong, so no matter how many band-aids you apply to it you are still going to have a system that is fundamentally broken
|
Ribikoka
Royal Amarr Institute Amarr Empire
283
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 11:58:00 -
[119] - Quote
Zendon Taredi wrote:just a suggestion,. take the tree and put it as a mouse over on the inventory button. then open new windows when a branch of the tree is selected.
Get your axe and chop tree. |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 12:02:00 -
[120] - Quote
Main issues (already said, but obviously the number is the key, so let's be NUMEROUS) :
1- Too much scrooling in the tree. 2- Right clic on a ship + select what-you-want-to-open is almost missing now. 3- In station (or even at a POS) missing the open ship hangar icon in the neocom (see solution 3).
My solutions : 1- Move the amazing (in both good and bad way, yes good aswell) work you've done to the assets part.
AND/OR
2- Correct the tree issue, perhaps by having, as said, an option to have multiple windows were the tree is not the same (you know, corporation window with only corp divisions in the tree, things like that). 3- The new Neocom is quite perfect : Clear, smooth, and we can customize what is on the left column by dragging and dropping things from the menu (that can be opened at the top left corner). That's great, why don't you go further with this feature ? Give us the possibility to Drag & Drop things like "ship hangar", "fuel bay", "corp division N-¦3", from the New Inventory tree to the Neocom. Simply. That would create an icon were we just need to click to have the window opened again.
My conclusion : It seems you've finaly understood that the right direction you need to take, to make a good now inventory is to give players the opportunity to make by themselves the inventory they need (like having secondary window opening again at the same location when opened for the second time). That's good ! You just need to do a lot of work in that direction.
This said...
ZaBob wrote: Hello,
(blablablah)
Lot of very interesting stuff in all his posts.
(blablablah)
CCP you should hire him and read his posts.
"Let's survive together !" |
|
Captain' Jack Sparrow
225
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:27:00 -
[121] - Quote
Altrue wrote:This said... ZaBob wrote: Hello,
(blablablah)
Lot of very interesting stuff in all his posts.
(blablablah)
CCP you should hire him and read his posts.
"CCP you should hire him and read his posts"
Absolutely! Without a doubt.
|
Captain' Jack Sparrow
225
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 14:40:00 -
[122] - Quote
And while you're at it... PLEASE answer my question that I've been posting in all of these different threads for weeks now.
Quote:According to your very own website, the ASSETS window is what you guys originally had in mind for this new toy. See here --->>> http://www.eveonline.com/inferno/unified-inventory-ftr/Read that, and then tell me if it's anything like the current Unified Inventory. Then try to tell me that does NOT describe the assets window.
It makes perfect sense to use for assets. How did this plan get sidetracked into the mess we have now?
|
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
62
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 16:54:00 -
[123] - Quote
if it's not possible to have old and new inventory system at once. THEN REMOVE NEW UI and bring us back OLD UI.
Let OLD UI Stay, erase this new ui because it's crap. |
|
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp CCP Engineering Alliance
51
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 17:26:00 -
[124] - Quote
Hey all,
TL:DR: Based on your feedback the top points the team will discuss and follow up on are
- Fast access to Inventory locations (bays, Items, ships, corporate hangars, etc) via shortcuts (be they on the Neocom, right click,etc) - I.e. alternatives to the tree view
- Consistency between the Primary and the Secondary windows, specifically their persistence. They should not usurp what the user is doing at any time.
The Long version that you did read:
Thanks for all the feedback, in particular ZaBob and Cerys Magente who made incredibly compelling posts. This is what we need. While a lot of people would like us to specifically address the concerns they have now, we cannot. Nothing is as simple as it seems on the outside, in fact quite the opposite. We are also headed into summer months and believe it or not people take a few weeks off here and there which usually means no team is running at full capacity for a while.
To explain why a rollback is not a simple solution. The new Unified Inventory required an extensive rewrite of a lot of fundamental ways in which the Inventory windows are built. This code touched a number of different files across a number of different systems, some which you may not even consider related to the Inventory. Once those changes are final everyone else in the company builds on the new code changes. An analogy is that we placed some bricks in a wall, other programmers have now placed their bricks on top of ours. We cannot just remove our bricks and try and shove old ones in.
I would appreciate if people dropped this point, we will not go back to the old system.
However as a first point, not only do we read almost every single post here (I personally have been reading every feedback thread, including the Inferno 1.1 - every single page and the 907 you linked to ZaBob), but we also talk to people in game, CSM, read blogs, watch the YouTube videos, track the twitter accounts and the Facebook threads. So with that said let me summarize the points we feel are hurting the community.
Or the what needs to be fixed list:
Persistence: the issue of persistence is complicated and confusing. I agree. The Secondary and Primary window do not behave consistently in ways the user might expect. The primary window being usurped is particularly confusing.
- We (Game of Drones) will discuss this, I agree there is work left to be done here
Shortcuts: Some form of shortcut should exist to specific folders and locations (preferably on the Neocom or station services)
- We actually have a few different plans for this. I would rather not go into specifics, but we are discussing exactly how best to deal with this.
Right click options: Bring back the right click options
- This has been discussed, my understanding is though that you would also like these windows to be opened up in a new window, rather than in the Primary. Raising this feedback to the team and Soundwave. We will discuss and decide on a course of action once that has happened. This should be one of the easier points to bring to a conclusion.
Remove ISK price: Self explanatory
- I would like to state that there is no performance increase in removing this. None. I have seen a lot of posts claiming that removing the ISK price would reduce the lag. It would not. It has nothing to do with lag. The way we move items across inventory locations however has changed, and when moving (say 500 blueprints) from one location to the next, the EST price will change as the items are moved out in batches. This is an easy visual indicated but the problem is somewhere else and we are investigating this.
- The issue of reducing the bottom border is a legitimate concern, we will discuss this, but we have plans to use that bottom border...
Make SHIFT click a toggle: Have an option so that you can enable shift for clicking in the Inventory by default
- Also will be raised as a very valid point. We are actually working on a feature where you will simply be able to drag out windows from the Index tree, coming soon. No shift click required. The problem with making double click or single click open a new window, is that when is the system supposed to know you want to simply select a tree view line to view its contents (possibly a reverse shift click in this case?)
Tree view is not practical: There are situations where it becomes so long it is unusable or takes too long to use.
- This is really difficult to solve, but we will also discuss this. I will do my best to wrangle the team together to see if we can decide on a course of action. That being said I would again like to just point out that Summer vacation is close and some of the team will be dropping out for a few weeks here and there. We understand though that people need quick easy alternatives to the tree view, shortcut key bindings, buttons, right click options, etc.
Inventory slow: In some cases people are claiming that the Inventory is slow
- We have to deal with this on a case by case basis. If you are experiencing a slow Inventory please run LogServer and detail how the Inventory is slow (how many seconds it is taking to do what exactly). We need logs to investigate this further. Even on TQ my personal experience is looting is instant, both to open windows, clicking loot and the window closing. Changing ships at a POS or otherwise waiting for the tree view load should take no more than a few seconds.
http://support.eveonline.com/Pages/KB/Article.aspx?id=120
- Please upload the logs to somewhere we can access them and we will have a look
I would like to summarize that the above are points I have raised with the team and we will discuss more thoroughly at some point this week. Following that we will make a plan to try and address these top concerns (I am raising these as concerns, I cannot mandate priority of work, etc).
Hopefully I have not missed anything, but it feels like the above are the top concerns from the community and we will do our best to address them as time permits. Again I will personally say sorry that the Unified Inventory has not made your life as easy as it should be and hopefully we can make this right.
Thanks again for taking the time to reply to us with all this feedback. |
|
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
324
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 17:35:00 -
[125] - Quote
^ Great post |
Altrue
Exploration Frontier inc
9
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 17:48:00 -
[126] - Quote
Salpun wrote:^ Great post
I agree.
At the very beggining I was hoping an option to use the old system. When the improvements came I reconsidered my opinion, and that confirms, in my point of view, that soon we may have a good inventory. A true good one.
So good luck CCP, now that you will (and are already) have to struggle with multiple parts of the code.
But for the moment, and the following months I think, my sig remains the same :p "- What is the end-game content of EvE ? -á- The New Unified Inventory. Every player dreams of using it comfortably, but only a few hardcore gamers achieve to do so." |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
324
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 18:50:00 -
[127] - Quote
I would suggest you start a new thread with your post. A lot of people are going to miss your post becouse the CCL thread pushed it down the first page. It needs to be read and commented on. |
Circumstantial Evidence
40
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 19:21:00 -
[128] - Quote
Forwarding link to CCP RubberBAND's excellent post, rephrase it a bit more and you can call it a Dev Blog, then it would get the front page community exposure it deserves on this polarizing topic :)
INVENTORY IS SLOW
The extensive amount of stuff I have in my main station results in a long load time. Previous inventory system was faster, **because it did not seem to enumerate the contents of containers.**
I do NOT mind if there is a short "loading delay" the first time when selecting to view the contents of a container.
Can you guys speed up station loading - by only sending to the client the Root level of station items? |
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
240
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:23:00 -
[129] - Quote
CCP Soundwave:
Thank you for your response.
I'm no forum warrior, so my sample is a bit limited, but in my experience, your post is far and away the best response I've seen from CCP on any point of disagreement!
The key is that you've acknowledged each of the concerns - and how you plan to address them. Where you don't have a concrete plan, you point to how you're going to resolve it.
I hope that next time there's a crisis (hopefully they get smaller!) that y'all will look back at your post today and strive to get to that.
If I helped you get there this time, I am quite pleased. Thank you for considering my input. I really want you guys to succeed.
With over a thousand messages, I quite understand the challenge you faced (and still face) on integrating all of this input. I hope players appreciate how much work it took. And I'm glad to hear you found the time to go beyond the forums as well.
Now, on to your list, a few points/questions/comments:
Persistence: (This is primarily about terminology and model): Is the primary window being usurped a matter of persistence? It seems to me that primary windows involve two things -- (1) they're persisted separately (since they were never committed to a specific location, thanks in part to the usurpation), and (2) they're usurped. That latter is the most visible aspect, and is what should go away. That leaves you with a bit of residue of (1) . Opening the inventory via the inventory button would be the only remaining case, I think?
Shortcuts: I have some ideas on this, too, and if our ideas overlap, I really look forward to it. But getting us Ships/Items/Corporate Hangers somehow would really help, even if it's initially a stop-gap approach.
Right click: Your understanding is correct. If you could include also adding back buttons for ships and items and corporate hangers in stations, I think doing this one quickly will give you the most return on your time in making players happy. (I don't personally see a need for Corporate Deliveries/Returns to have a button).
Shift click: Double-click doesn't actually have that problem; single-click selects, double-click opens. Dragging out the window is interesting, but I think won't be easily discovered by new players, whereas double-clicking on a can in space suggests double-clicking on that same can in the tree view might be something to try.
Tree view: Indeed, a tough problem. Someone, maybe you, brought up something I took to point to filtered tree views. Perhaps that could help. So a shortcut to a corporate hanger would bring up a tree view with just the corporate hanger divisions for the hanger in question.
That doesn't address, however, the geometric complaints that a tree view adds a lot of width. Maybe you could switch between tabbed and tree presentations based on the number of locations? Or allow the user to switch presentations with a button on the title bar. You'd need to limit it somehow. Perhaps limit it to immediate siblings, and only if there's less than, say, 10 of them.
One thing you didn't touch on is the Assets window. That doesn't need to be addressed now, but since many of us feel that's where this feature should have entered first, we'd be interested in hearing your general thoughts on integration with it at some point in the future?
And finally, I can't resist commenting, even though you asked for it to be dropped, just because I like your analogy:
CCP RubberBAND wrote: An analogy is that we placed some bricks in a wall, other programmers have now placed their bricks on top of ours. We cannot just remove our bricks and try and shove old ones in.
Well, actually, you can replace a brick. It's a lot of work, and can result in pinched fingers.
But here's the key point: As time passes, programmers place more and more rows of bricks atop the old. It gets harder and harder and more dangerous to attempt such replacement as time goes on.
It would have been far easier to do such wall surgery when it was first introduced on SiSi than it would be at this point.
But there we reach the limit of the analogy. We didn't really need the brick replaced. Fixing it is fine. Bringing us back what was lost, in the new context is the right way to go at this point.
I think there's a lot of potential for good from the new system once these issues are resolved. I don't find filters to be as useful as I'd like -- but I think you could make me very happy very easily. The shortcuts could also be a big win. But that's all enhancements for the future.
Again, thank you for your well-thought-out response. I look forward to hearing more as this progresses.
Building on what Salpun suggests: I would suggest this be turned into a Dev Blog, with its own thread. |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
326
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 20:27:00 -
[130] - Quote
ZaBob wrote:CCP Soundwave: Thank you for your response. I'm no forum warrior, so my sample is a bit limited, but in my experience, your post is far and away the best response I've seen from CCP on any point of disagreement! The key is that you've acknowledged each of the concerns - and how you plan to address them. Where you don't have a concrete plan, you point to how you're going to resolve it. I hope that next time there's a crisis (hopefully they get smaller!) that y'all will look back at your post today and strive to get to that. If I helped you get there this time, I am quite pleased. Thank you for considering my input. I really want you guys to succeed. With over a thousand messages, I quite understand the challenge you faced (and still face) on integrating all of this input. I hope players appreciate how much work it took. And I'm glad to hear you found the time to go beyond the forums as well. Now, on to your list, a few points/questions/comments: Persistence: (This is primarily about terminology and model): Is the primary window being usurped a matter of persistence? It seems to me that primary windows involve two things -- (1) they're persisted separately (since they were never committed to a specific location, thanks in part to the usurpation), and (2) they're usurped. That latter is the most visible aspect, and is what should go away. That leaves you with a bit of residue of (1) . Opening the inventory via the inventory button would be the only remaining case, I think? Shortcuts: I have some ideas on this, too, and if our ideas overlap, I really look forward to it. But getting us Ships/Items/Corporate Hangers somehow would really help, even if it's initially a stop-gap approach. Right click: Your understanding is correct. If you could include also adding back buttons for ships and items and corporate hangers in stations, I think doing this one quickly will give you the most return on your time in making players happy. (I don't personally see a need for Corporate Deliveries/Returns to have a button). Shift click: Double-click doesn't actually have that problem; single-click selects, double-click opens. Dragging out the window is interesting, but I think won't be easily discovered by new players, whereas double-clicking on a can in space suggests double-clicking on that same can in the tree view might be something to try. Tree view: Indeed, a tough problem. Someone, maybe you, brought up something I took to point to filtered tree views. Perhaps that could help. So a shortcut to a corporate hanger would bring up a tree view with just the corporate hanger divisions for the hanger in question. That doesn't address, however, the geometric complaints that a tree view adds a lot of width. Maybe you could switch between tabbed and tree presentations based on the number of locations? Or allow the user to switch presentations with a button on the title bar. You'd need to limit it somehow. Perhaps limit it to immediate siblings, and only if there's less than, say, 10 of them. One thing you didn't touch on is the Assets window. That doesn't need to be addressed now, but since many of us feel that's where this feature should have entered first, we'd be interested in hearing your general thoughts on integration with it at some point in the future? And finally, I can't resist commenting, even though you asked for it to be dropped, just because I like your analogy: CCP RubberBAND wrote: An analogy is that we placed some bricks in a wall, other programmers have now placed their bricks on top of ours. We cannot just remove our bricks and try and shove old ones in.
Well, actually, you can replace a brick. It's a lot of work, and can result in pinched fingers. But here's the key point: As time passes, programmers place more and more rows of bricks atop the old. It gets harder and harder and more dangerous to attempt such replacement as time goes on. It would have been far easier to do such wall surgery when it was first introduced on SiSi than it would be at this point. But there we reach the limit of the analogy. We didn't really need the brick replaced. Fixing it is fine. Bringing us back what was lost, in the new context is the right way to go at this point. I think there's a lot of potential for good from the new system once these issues are resolved. I don't find filters to be as useful as I'd like -- but I think you could make me very happy very easily. The shortcuts could also be a big win. But that's all enhancements for the future. Again, thank you for your well-thought-out response. I look forward to hearing more as this progresses. Building on what Salpun suggests: I would suggest this be turned into a Dev Blog, with its own thread. Its CCP Rubberband not CCP Soundwave that wrote the post |
|
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
240
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 21:10:00 -
[131] - Quote
Salpun wrote:Its CCP Rubberband not CCP Soundwave that wrote the post Persistant Green ships cargo is back on the neocom on Sisi should be live tomorrow. Hopefully
I have No. Friggin. Idea. how I wrote Soundwave there.
I wasn't thinking of CCP Soundwave at all. I did manage to type it right when I put in the quote.
My apologies CCP RubberBAND. I'll go edit it before I confuse anyone. |
Yonis Kador
Transstellar Alchemy
179
|
Posted - 2012.06.26 22:08:00 -
[132] - Quote
Thank you CCP RubberBand for acknowledging that CCP is aware of the stated issues with the UI. It was a refreshing read.
For the longest time, it has seemed as though players knew what the issues were and the devs would point to something unrelated as evidence of their comprehension. But with this post that's over. We now know the devs are aware of the issues.
Great.
If devs can give players shortcuts to inventory locations, which through neocom buttons and/or right click commands, open in new persistent windows, yes, that would solve many issues. (Of course it would. It's the equivalent of de-unification.)
The tree is more complicated.
If you make the tree optional with enough shortcuts, I will probably only be scrolling if absolutely necessary.
But I do like the idea of single-clicking on division entries and dragging them out to the hangar, where they will open into secondary persistent windows. To facilitate this, ("coming soon") the more you can do to the tree to make the entries look unalike the better. And of course there will be special cases: if I drag out the corp hangar from the primary window tree, it should open a secondary window with only the 7 corp hangar divisions displayed.
You guys might just iterate this thing useful again.
YK "He who fights and runs away lives to fight another day." |
vasuul
BLUE M00N Fetish Group Eternus Imperium Alliance
87
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 00:13:00 -
[133] - Quote
TABS not trees , i say again ,TABS not trees
we don't want to have to scroll to find hangars and with the old tab system we didn't have to
we want to be able to do things with out double scrolling here let me explain it to you
you have something in your very last corp and hangar you want to add to your cargo
you scroll down the stupid tree and find the hangar then you have to scroll the hangar to find the item but you cant drag and drop with out scrolling back up the stupid tree
now look at tabs we click the tab and we are in voila
we can separate the tabs with a simple drag like we do chat windows so if we want more windows we can get more windows
there is no longer any scrolling up and down a stupid file tree
this would fix 99.5% of the complaints and be just a little closer to having the old system back
and DON' T insult us with well the tree is only tabs on their side comment because they are not, with a tab system there would be no need to scroll except for in the hangar itself
the efficiency was lost the instant the tree came in , we want your tabs style system back , if you cant give us the old one back at least give us this functionality of it ,
this is like a sick game of hide and seek and we just want to be able to access our stuff with out hassle the game should be EVE not scroll and find
Its about this functionality and CCP does not get it
please chop down this tree and take it to the woodpile ,and give Us back our Tabs |
Mane Frehm
The Executioners Capital Punishment.
19
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 02:58:00 -
[134] - Quote
Thanx for the post, Rubberband. I appreciate the challenge, and sometimes there is no going back....but you have to find a way to respond to these concerns, even if its only listing the changes/features you will bring forward and a tentative schedule (and yes...whatever you do will generate whining).
BTW, you stated that "Even on TQ my personal experience is looting is instant, both to open windows, clicking loot and the window closing."
As of the Monday patch, looting from wrecks is now painfully slow. I'd suggest you folks take a look at that. |
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
403
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 12:13:00 -
[135] - Quote
CCP rubberband....
Thank you for your post. This is the most sensible and informative post any CCP employee has made since this fiasco started. It is nice to finally see that you acknowledge the issues and are working on solutions, as opposed to some condescending comments from some of your colleagues.
However, one question remains.....
After the many, many complaints from users within days of this system hitting Sisi, why did you not stop it there. There cannot have been that many bricks on top of yours at that point in time, but you continued blindly on. It was clear back then that there were major issues with the fundimental way this system was constructed, and it should never have been brought to TQ.
When we heard the comment "We honestly thought we were ready" from one of the Devs, it really made us wonder if anyone involved actually played the game. I mean ACTUALLY play. Properly.
So, please tell us why you did not stop this in its tracks when you saw all that feedback on Sisi ? |
Winter Unicorn
Requiem For Freedom
18
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 12:39:00 -
[136] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Hey all,
TL:DR: Based on your feedback the top points the team will discuss and follow up on are ...
Yeah!!! |
Mr Bimble
Lost Ark Enterprises
6
|
Posted - 2012.06.27 15:37:00 -
[137] - Quote
CCP Dev says "I would like to state that there is no performance increase in removing this. None. I have seen a lot of posts claiming that removing the ISK price would reduce the lag. It would not. It has nothing to do with lag. The way we move items across inventory locations however has changed, and when moving (say 500 blueprints) from one location to the next, the EST price will change as the items are moved out in batches. This is an easy visual indicated but the problem is somewhere else and we are investigating this." Well this is really ******* annoying.I dont need another ******* pop up that is incorrect as well as annoying.Bunch of self congratulatury cunts,just pissing people off because thay get to play with code. Which dumbfuck cant tell that the UI is a piece of ****,and is unwanted by the majority of players.I'm so happy I cant run a POS.Even salvaging and looting is a pain.Everytime I opne a wreck so does my cargohold,and it pops up a litle maessage giving me a worthless approximation of its value.Petitions,bloody things.I sent one in explaining that something was not happening.I got an email asking for a screenshot of "something not happening"Not been able to work out how to do that one. Today the petition has gone,only evidence of one is my email. Wow, I need to go chill somewhere . ps, the filter is objectionable too.It fillls up this gap I want.To remove it I have to click on it to wake it up, then I have to click again to make it retract.My clicky finger now has rsi and heavy bruising. |
Maul555
Nuts and Vindictive Remix Technologies
298
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 06:14:00 -
[138] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Hey all, TL:DR:Based on your feedback the top points the team will discuss and follow up on are
- Fast access to Inventory locations (bays, Items, ships, corporate hangars, etc) via shortcuts (be they on the Neocom, right click,etc) - I.e. alternatives to the tree view
- Consistency between the Primary and the Secondary windows, specifically their persistence. They should not usurp what the user is doing at any time.
...
I FREAKING LOVE YOU!
a HUGE +20bazillion on bringing back the right click options and shift toggle.
Also there appears to be an issue with transferring items into a corp hanger at a pos that belongs to another corp. You can dump into bays you have no access to if you use the tree on a primary window, but trying to drag from one open window to another will cause it to fail.
Turn that list into a Dev blog.... please! |
ZaBob
Twilight Labs Unsung Voices
249
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 07:29:00 -
[139] - Quote
Maul555 wrote: Also there appears to be an issue with transferring items into a corp hanger at a pos that belongs to another corp. You can dump into bays you have no access to if you use the tree on a primary window, but trying to drag from one open window to another will cause it to fail.
Oh, man, would I love it if we got the ability to configure specific access to other corps and individuals. The possibilities for increased interaction and inter-player dynamics are vast. |
Hailey Clauson
Renegade Pleasure Androids Pleasure Syndicate
1
|
Posted - 2012.06.28 08:23:00 -
[140] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Hey all, TL:DR:Based on your feedback the top points the team will discuss and follow up on are
- Fast access to Inventory locations (bays, Items, ships, corporate hangars, etc) via shortcuts (be they on the Neocom, right click,etc) - I.e. alternatives to the tree view
- Consistency between the Primary and the Secondary windows, specifically their persistence. They should not usurp what the user is doing at any time.
The Long version that you did read:
Since you guys added filters can you please add filters for BPC Copy Count (and ME and PE while at it). Thanks! |
|
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
143
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 02:23:00 -
[141] - Quote
Yet another patch, (after 3 weeks of no Inventory updates) and still lacking basics...
CCP RubberBAND wrote: Make SHIFT click a toggle: Have an option so that you can enable shift for clicking in the Inventory by default
Also will be raised as a very valid point. We are actually working on a feature where you will simply be able to drag out windows from the Index tree, coming soon. No shift click required. The problem with making double click or single click open a new window, is that when is the system supposed to know you want to simply select a tree view line to view its contents (possibly a reverse shift click in this case?)
Ummm, ppl don't usually double click the line on the tree just to select it, just go with the double click, it was simple, and different enough to allow users to 'select' something, and 'open' something...without the keyboard....
CCP RubberBAND wrote: Even on TQ my personal experience is looting is instant, both to open windows, clicking loot and the window closing. Changing ships at a POS or otherwise waiting for the tree view load should take no more than a few seconds.
Well, that jet-can mining Rokh pilot i was trying to steal ore from thanks you for your "working as intended" system...i tried for 10 minutes before i just gave up. I have never had such a hard time stealing ore out of a transfer can...ever. Except maybe the time i had no mouse...okay, its a tie with the hardest time i've had stealing ore.
*IMPORTANT* Separate the "space" window from the "station" window, PLEASE! Why for the love of all that is good can i not close my 'space' window w/o effecting the state of my 'station' window? CCP, please tell me what is your thinking behind this? Because it has been 2 months since this was first asked by those of us lucky enough to Alpha Test on SiSi, and the question has been entirely ignored.
After the new patch i still have a broken tree view that will not remember its new status when i try to correct it. Currently it ALWAYS opens exactly 3 characters wide...just enough to see there might be something there, but enough to do anything without either finding the thin edge and dragging it wider, or hitting the 'minimize/maximize' button. This first occurred in the previous build after you guys first said the windows would remember their state..but they ended up not.
The "ship" and "item" windows are now stacked nice and easy like they were before this mess, but the now broken tree on the main window is insanely annoying.
Also..just some questions about your testing methods...
How were you guys testing this for those two weeks when there was no replies on any feedback (while this was on SiSi) before you came back and said it was 100% ready to go, if you are looking at these things and agreeing now? (you even came back after those 2 weeks and stated yall had done '2 weeks of in-house tests')
CCP RubberBAND wrote: Persistence: the issue of persistence is complicated and confusing. I agree. The Secondary and Primary window do not behave consistently in ways the user might expect. The primary window being usurped is particularly confusing. We (Game of Drones) will discuss this, I agree there is work left to be done here
At what point did you guys test this and say, hey, that window keeps doing things i didn't want, BRILLIANT, lets keep that feature!
CCP RubberBAND wrote: Tree view is not practical: There are situations where it becomes so long it is unusable or takes too long to use. This is really difficult to solve, but we will also discuss this. I will do my best to wrangle the team together to see if we can decide on a course of action. That being said I would again like to just point out that Summer vacation is close and some of the team will be dropping out for a few weeks here and there. We understand though that people need quick easy alternatives to the tree view, shortcut key bindings, buttons, right click options, etc.
Again, in what part of the testing did you guys go to a POS that had a bagillion modules/arrays and say, "i can't find anything, this is awesome!" Seriously? http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
Needa3
BURN EDEN Northern Coalition.
32
|
Posted - 2012.06.29 19:02:00 -
[142] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote: An analogy is that we placed some bricks in a wall, other programmers have now placed their bricks on top of ours. We cannot just remove our bricks and try and shove old ones in.
The way you guys did it ...
replace bricks in the wall
next guy to put a brick on dies cause the wall came tumbling down.
I wonder if you are indeed reading what you are writing cause basically you wrote:
- CCP knew the UI was crap - CPP still pushed the issue - we want to know what you guys really want - we are now adding the things you had in the old version but we are doing it in the most idiot way possible.
BTW, we are still waiting for the answer on WHY this crappy tool was integrated.
Your post so far have a very dodgy argumentation, all of which has been countered numerous times
I congratulate you CCP, you are going to need DUST if you manage to survive 'cause the way i see it: your numbers keep going down and the only one to blame is yourself
|
Ta-Dam
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 09:43:00 -
[143] - Quote
Needa3 wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote: An analogy is that we placed some bricks in a wall, other programmers have now placed their bricks on top of ours. We cannot just remove our bricks and try and shove old ones in.
BTW, we are still waiting for the answer on WHY this crappy tool was integrated. Your post so far have a very dodgy argumentation, all of which has been countered numerous times I congratulate you CCP, you are going to need DUST if you manage to survive 'cause the way i see it: your numbers keep going down and the only one to blame is yourself
They just want to create an userfriendly gaming console crap UI system.
|
Dennie Fleetfoot
EVE University Ivy League
340
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 10:33:00 -
[144] - Quote
I've not played much or tested on Sisi because of a combination of RL, too much fun on the Dust beta and to be brutally honest with you CCP folks, the Unifubared has sucked all the joy out of playing Eve at the moment.
And I was talking to Unifex about it in Newcastle last week. So I know a bit more about the work that's being done on UI. He also knows its far from perfect (EVERYONE at the meet was complaining about it) and that's he's taking a personal interest in UI getting made right. But he encouraged me to try out the latest build on Sisi because he thought progress has been made.
And he was right, progress has been made. It's still a mess but it's now predicable and getting dangerously close to being usable for the basic stuff.
Wrecks are still a problem, not disappearing after looting. But they now open in a smaller window rather than the main inventory which is better.
Unifex admitted that this wasn't ready for release and apologised to those at the meet and nearly all including me accepted it.
So you're getting there. I'm still not happy about all our feedback on sisi being ignored when we tested it but I'll get over it.
More work needs to be done to get it to a level paying customers deserve but I'm now more confident you guys finally get what our concerns were about.
Oh and one thing I learnt at the meet. Unsubbing works. It got their attention.
|
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
644
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 11:27:00 -
[145] - Quote
Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:Unsubbing works. It got their attention.
To be totally honest, our attention was claimed before the first unsub thread went up. Believe it or not, as you like, but it's the truth. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
Dennie Fleetfoot
EVE University Ivy League
340
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 11:32:00 -
[146] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:Unsubbing works. It got their attention.
To be totally honest, our attention was claimed before the first unsub thread went up. Believe it or not, as you like, but it's the truth.
You know what, after chatting to Jon, I actually do believe you.
No hard feelings I hope Goliath. I know you guys are on top of this now. Your boss is a cool dude too. |
Immortalmyth
The Chandrian Against ALL Authorities
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.02 23:05:00 -
[147] - Quote
6 out of 7 accounts are now unsubbed.
when this one runs out its bye bye goodbye
congrats ccp u killed eve
ui wasnt ready you knew this
we didnt want the ui you knew this
you wont fix the ui we know this
so im off to play diablo 3, its been over 5 years i havnt missed a month being subbed. hope your happy ccp
|
Vegare
Das zweite Konglomerat The Initiative.
50
|
Posted - 2012.07.03 14:08:00 -
[148] - Quote
First of all thanks a lot for all the fixes Game of Drones. I've been wrapping my head around the inventory a lot lately and I'm pretty comfortable with it by now thanks to all the improvements. However there are a bunch of remaining issues which I'd like to put emphasis on:
- There is no auto-scrolling in tree view. If you want to drag and drop an item but the destination is not visible on the tree you need to put the item back into the hangar (carefully) and scroll the tree manually. CTR+X is not a solution, drag with left mouse button and use scroll wheel isn't too.
- Dropping ships into item hangar doesn't work, and dropping items into ship hangar doesn't work. Dropping items on the Neocom icon doesn't work. Basically if you want to just drop something from a secondary window (your ship's bay probably) into your hangar you need extra steps if there is no primary window open or the tree view doesn't show the right entry for the item you want to move.
- Secondary windows don't remember the state of their tree views, which would be very useful for carrier/Orca pilots and other use cases.
- There should be a special case for secondary windows showing ship bays. They need to close and open automatically when switching ships. E.g. if ship bay of active ship is open and active ship is being switched then: close old ship bay and open new one. This would be almost in line with old functionality.
- There should be a consistent and easy distinguishable icon for secondary windows on Neocom. The current one doesn't cut it.
- Using 'Right click' -> 'Open' on an entry in the tree view should open a secondary window by default. No one ever uses the right click menu to access functionality which is accessible through a single click. This should be consistent for every 'open' context entry in my opinion! If you want to use 'the browser' you use it, if you want to have instant access to a window you use the context menu entries.
- 'My Filters' options are static when switching inventory locations. Quick filter entries aren't. Please make it consistent, preferably (imo) make the quick filter behave like the primary filters, which would help a lot when searching for specific items in different locations.
On the long term:
- Please give us more item related functionality for items which are stored in containers or ship bays. Contract, repair, repackage, sell, move to hangar and refine. Now this would be a real usability tweak. Ah, and plastic wrap would be awesome!
- Every browser desperately needs a 'back' button.
|
Rommiee
Mercury Inc.
425
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 12:01:00 -
[149] - Quote
Its all gone quiet from the Devs recently, not that they ever said a lot tbh.
Just hope they haven't gone into "we have done a few updates, so now lets keep quiet and hope it all goes away" mode.
Wouldn't be surprised though |
Copine Callmeknau
Kangaroos With Frickin Lazerbeams Ninja Unicorns with Huge Horns
252
|
Posted - 2012.07.04 20:14:00 -
[150] - Quote
Wondering if CCP devs realise what an ungodly mess their tree turns into when dealing with a hanger of 30 odd ships, a few capitals, corp hangers, and then multiple station containers as well.
It's pretty goddamn ugly
Further points: Ships should be sorted alphabetically by SHIP MODEL not my custom ship name. Utterly ridiculous, takes me an age to find ships in the tree
Fuel bay/ship maint bay should be put back on the right click menu. idc if it's the same number of clicks now as it was before, it's definitely slower as the procedure is unfamiliar and I need to race the mouse back and forth across the screen where I didn't before.
Dragging an item to the ship hanger should AUTOMATICALLY place it in my item hanger instead. This is probably the most annoying thing for me. Stop removing functionality
Selecting modules in my cargohold, realising tree isn't open, clicking expand tree, and having ALL the fracking items I've selected decide to unselect themselves was the stupidest feature in the history of evar. So frustrating.
Immortalmyth wrote:6 out of 7 accounts are now unsubbed.
when this one runs out its bye bye goodbye
congrats ccp u killed eve
ui wasnt ready you knew this
we didnt want the ui you knew this
you wont fix the ui we know this
so im off to play diablo 3, its been over 5 years i havnt missed a month being subbed. hope your happy ccp
I also ragequit multiple imaginary accounts over minor inconveniences There should be a rather awesome pic here |
|
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
525
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 16:24:00 -
[151] - Quote
To CCP RubberBAND:
Can you please explain, why do you NOT want to rebuild the old UI with this new code? As it is; I want only the old UI to play EVE. I will not further play AND PAY!!! if I am forced to use this terrible idea of unified inventory. I want the copy of the old UI back. Recreate it and make the behavior the same behavior of the old UI. Nothing less is acceptable for me. Sorry. But thats my point.
After more than 4 years I do not intent to adapt to this crap Idea of unified windows. NEVER! I can't play EVE at present. Because of THIS: http://i50.tinypic.com/2ez1wz4.jpg |
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
526
|
Posted - 2012.07.05 17:04:00 -
[152] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Hi all, Let me take the time to reply to some of these points specifically Makalu Zarya wrote:I don't know why i'm posting this since no one important will read it...
a few quick things i'd like to see brought back.
1. An altogether option of using the old system. no fixes no anything, just the exact way it used to be.
seeing how that won't happen here are some ideas.
That is correct, the old system will not come back. We also cannot support two separately coded Inventory systems. The Unified Inventory is here to stay, but we will continue to work on it so that it is something everyone can be happy with.
Really? You want to change the UI so that every one is happy again but absolute decline to solve the problem itself? The Problem Ms. RubberBAND is, that WE DO NOT WANT THE WHOLE IDEA OF YOUR CRAP UNIFIED UI! You can try to change or improve as much as you want. But I will never accept this crap of UI now! Make the behavior of the new UI like the behavior of the old!
Improving the UI to a point that averyone loves - without changing? LOL! You can spare this work! This wont work! Recreate the old UI. THAT IS THE ONLY WAY! I can't play EVE at present. Because of THIS: http://i50.tinypic.com/2ez1wz4.jpg |
Myriad Blaze
12
|
Posted - 2012.07.06 19:41:00 -
[153] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Hopefully I have not missed anything. Actually you missed something ZaBob mentioned and that is one of the main issues (at least for me as a relatively new player):
ZaBob wrote:When you loot a container in space, instead of closing the container, you switch the window to the cargohold. That's always an extra, unwanted window. THAT one, you newly introduced. THAT one, get rid of.
PLEASE ... if I want to access my cargo while undocked I just click on the cargo button. When I'm clearing after a mission and loot 30+ containers I neither want to have my cargo open all the time nor do I want to see it pop open again and again and again and again ... this is beyond annoying and something that could make me consider giving feedback through account management.
CCP RubberBAND wrote:An analogy is that we placed some bricks in a wall, other programmers have now placed their bricks on top of ours. We cannot just remove our bricks and try and shove old ones in. I think I know exactly where you're coming from. Including the reasons you didn't mention. However, to stay in your analogy, sometimes, when the bricks in the lower section of the wall are severely flawed, the whole building will come down if it's solidity is tested under stress.
Btw, I appreciate, that you came to talk to the people here. Thanks.
|
Furian Warrior
REPUBLIKA ORLA C0VEN
3
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 15:48:00 -
[154] - Quote
crap, crap, crap I want my old inventory back..... |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
944
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 19:11:00 -
[155] - Quote
Quote:We are discussing being able to open up separate windows with unique tree views, so a corporation window might only have the divisions in the tree view. Please elaborate if I missed the point here somehow.
YES
but can I add something to that? Right now if you open a new window, you can then drag that window into a tab by bring it over another window.
so...
why not just let me create a new item window tab by dragging an icon from the tree view itself onto the tab area for an item window? I love setting up tabs, and if each tab could have different or filtered tree views that would be badass. Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 sales Xbox 360: 2.2 million PlayStation 3: 1.5 million PC: 500,000http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
MotherMoon
Blue Republic RvB - BLUE Republic
944
|
Posted - 2012.07.09 19:14:00 -
[156] - Quote
Callidus Dux wrote:To CCP RubberBAND:
Can you please explain, why do you NOT want to rebuild the old UI with this new code? As it is; I want only the old UI to play EVE. I will not further play AND PAY!!! if I am forced to use this terrible idea of unified inventory. I want the copy of the old UI back. Recreate it and make the behavior the same behavior of the old UI. Nothing less is acceptable for me. Sorry. But thats my point.
After more than 4 years I do not intent to adapt to this crap Idea of unified windows. NEVER! Because I never wanted a change!!!
Furthermore I will not longer wait till your Devs are back from holiday. You have to learn to NOT BRING OUT new and absolute not requested or wanted sh!t at a point when all Devs leave the headquarter some days later! Cancel their holidays! It is about your company CCP and your game EVE. You really want to wait till all Devs are back after their undeserved holiday?
Yeah wait! But after your Dev's holiday a lot of other players might be gone!
Why do you not bring out your Devs crap ideas AFTER their holidays? When they are back and stay the next few month in company? You change things in a way no one ever wants and go to holiday? Thats not intelligent.
just get lost already, you weren't going to stick around long anyways, eve is always changing. Nothing will stop that, some people left over the neo neocom, go join them. In the last month eve has gained overall 15,000 subs. The new UI is not the terrible piece of junk you say "we" don't want.
I don't remember who made you a CSM member so you could speak for the whole community.
But i speak for myself when I say, just leave eve already. your posts are not constructive and are just wasting the poor devs time who had to read your post. It literally is just a rant. congratz. Why dust 514 is on Console and not PCBattle field 3 sales Xbox 360: 2.2 million PlayStation 3: 1.5 million PC: 500,000http://dl.eve-files.com/media/1206/scimi.jpg |
|
CCP Goliath
C C P C C P Alliance
657
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 00:02:00 -
[157] - Quote
As has been mentioned above, things are quiet right now as July is holiday time in Iceland. Pretty much all of the GoD team are on vacation for the moment, but they are going into planning mode on their return and I'm sure they'll be back with updates as soon as there are some to be made. CCP Goliath | QA Director | @CCP_Goliath |
|
Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
338
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 02:34:00 -
[158] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:As has been mentioned above, things are quiet right now as July is holiday time in Iceland. Pretty much all of the GoD team are on vacation for the moment, but they are going into planning mode on their return and I'm sure they'll be back with updates as soon as there are some to be made.
Can you tell them when they get back, that we are all very disapoint' and that they should put back 'right click' shortcut to the different bays, like fuel, drones, ship maintainance bay and so on... I find myself frustratede everyday when I want to access those bays... when I right click my ship and can't find them anymore... it actually takes longer to open them now unless you already have the inventory window up... ALL THE GOD DAMN TIME! :) sorry for my rage, but the unified inventory was the worste mistake since the Jita uprise... it's not as bad as... but in the annoyance factor... it's extremly high! removeing features, just because added another feature isn't always the best idea and as a minimum, they should proberly have asked us all what we thought about it... besides that, theres some minor tweaks that can make the new inventory fine... it does look neat'er than the old one...
but what about the ability add shortcuts in the neocom to different inventory areas... like ship hangar? and if you added these shortcuts in the neocom, they would always open in a new window... you know... like before they broke the inventory system to our dislike?
I also noticed that when I am flying towards a wreck really fast that I want to loot... and I am desperately clicking it... when I fly past the wreck because im too fast... it opens my cargo bay instead of the wreck (because I went out of range I assume...) this is also extremely annoying |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
336
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 05:20:00 -
[159] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:As has been mentioned above, things are quiet right now as July is holiday time in Iceland. Pretty much all of the GoD team are on vacation for the moment, but they are going into planning mode on their return and I'm sure they'll be back with updates as soon as there are some to be made. Came expecting a Soundwave post got a Goliath post instead. Hi Goliath
The bad thing about having AT this time of year is that most answers given by the studio crew are just repeats of the above. |
Tony Two Bullet
Monocle Madness The Mockers AO
113
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 12:38:00 -
[160] - Quote
CCP Goliath wrote:Dennie Fleetfoot wrote:Unsubbing works. It got their attention.
To be totally honest, our attention was claimed before the first unsub thread went up. Believe it or not, as you like, but it's the truth.
What I want from new inventory system is the Column View that Apple has with the info window at the end:
http://flylib.com/books/3/324/1/html/2/images/0672327066/graphics/01inf19.jpg;423381
With a 3D Preview of items right there on the right with tabbed information underneath. I know CCP alluded to something like this, but that would be really awesome :)
Most of the issues with Unified Inventory are just small annoying things that inhibit productivity and workflow. I want to see some more awesome from it! CEO-á Monocle Madness ~ Mega-Insane Lotteries for the Mentally Unstable http://www.monoclemadness.com |
|
Mini Mizer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 16:42:00 -
[161] - Quote
hmmm
"That is correct, the old system will not come back. We also cannot support two separately coded Inventory systems. The Unified Inventory is here to stay, but we will continue to work on it so that it is something everyone can be happy with."
load of cow crap.
2/3 accounts are now not paying you any isk.
I'm sure you'll tell us when were happy again, right? Like other business your job is based on keeping customers happy. Your changes were crap for this and its a huge part of the logistics of the game. People are still not happy. Put your fingers back to work and cobble it back together the way it was. Course maybe you may want older characters to leave.
There are lots of folks who arn't going to come back now. Unfortuneately there are really "other" things to do besides EVE. When the 3rd account is up well see ya in some other MMO.
Still sad to see things still so borken and no end in sight.
go Fly crooked.
|
Ravcharas
GREY COUNCIL Nulli Secunda
172
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 17:51:00 -
[162] - Quote
Not being able to drag ships/items to the station window tab unless you have the relevant type set is frustrating as all hell. Used to be I could drag a bunch of stuff there and the ships would go to the ship tab and the items would go to the items tab no matter which was active. Now I have to pick out the items and select the items tab and then do the ships and it's another couple of seconds I won't ever get back because whoever designed this new system obviously never plays the game to any significant degree. |
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
526
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 18:50:00 -
[163] - Quote
MotherMoon wrote:Callidus Dux wrote:To CCP RubberBAND:
Can you please explain, why do you NOT want to rebuild the old UI with this new code? As it is; I want only the old UI to play EVE. I will not further play AND PAY!!! if I am forced to use this terrible idea of unified inventory. I want the copy of the old UI back. Recreate it and make the behavior the same behavior of the old UI. Nothing less is acceptable for me. Sorry. But thats my point.
After more than 4 years I do not intent to adapt to this crap Idea of unified windows. NEVER! Because I never wanted a change!!!
Furthermore I will not longer wait till your Devs are back from holiday. You have to learn to NOT BRING OUT new and absolute not requested or wanted sh!t at a point when all Devs leave the headquarter some days later! Cancel their holidays! It is about your company CCP and your game EVE. You really want to wait till all Devs are back after their undeserved holiday?
Yeah wait! But after your Dev's holiday a lot of other players might be gone!
Why do you not bring out your Devs crap ideas AFTER their holidays? When they are back and stay the next few month in company? You change things in a way no one ever wants and go to holiday? Thats not intelligent. just get lost already, you weren't going to stick around long anyways, eve is always changing. Nothing will stop that, some people left over the neo neocom, go join them. In the last month eve has gained overall 15,000 subs. The new UI is not the terrible piece of junk you say "we" don't want. I don't remember who made you a CSM member so you could speak for the whole community. But i speak for myself when I say, just leave eve already. your posts are not constructive and are just wasting the poor devs time who had to read your post. It literally is just a rant. congratz.
1. In the last month eve has gained overall 15,000 subs - Where is this information from?
2. Where did I claim to speak in the name of the whole community? Read my words again and stop trolling! I said "I will" "thats my point" "I do not intent to" "I will not longer wait" So read again and stop trolling. It was all my personal opinion!
3. Why is my post not constructive if I sai rebuild the old UI? Yeah! The UI has changed but is not better than before! (again: FOR ME!!!) But open your eyes and also read other posts against this UI!
4. Devs wasted their time already by their own. Barely one had a demand for an UI change. If you do not believe me; read all available posts in the forum!
5. YOUR post is a rant! Congratz. I can't play EVE at present. Because of THIS: http://i50.tinypic.com/2ez1wz4.jpg |
Circumstantial Evidence
42
|
Posted - 2012.07.10 21:09:00 -
[164] - Quote
Vegare wrote:There is no auto-scrolling in tree view. If you want to drag and drop an item but the destination is not visible on the tree you need to put the item back into the hangar (carefully) and scroll the tree manually. CTR+X is not a solution, drag with left mouse button and use scroll wheel isn't too. Agree with this. When an item is being dragged and mouse is hovering over the top or bottom 10% of the scroll bar, the tree should slowly scroll up or down. |
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
526
|
Posted - 2012.07.11 06:40:00 -
[165] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:Vegare wrote:There is no auto-scrolling in tree view. If you want to drag and drop an item but the destination is not visible on the tree you need to put the item back into the hangar (carefully) and scroll the tree manually. CTR+X is not a solution, drag with left mouse button and use scroll wheel isn't too. Agree with this. When an item is being dragged and mouse is hovering over the top or bottom 10% of the scroll bar, the tree should slowly scroll up or down.
Why an scrollbar or a tree view at all? Double clicks -> two seperate windows-> drag&drop-> job done THIS was the way it formerly was. The best solution compared to the dumb idea of tree view, scrollbars or unified inventory. Again: implement a checkbox for the behavior of the old UI. Double clicks, right clicks and seperate windows AS DEFAULT! I can't play EVE at present. Because of THIS: http://i50.tinypic.com/2ez1wz4.jpg |
Ione Hawke
Imperial Academy Amarr Empire
16
|
Posted - 2012.07.12 14:49:00 -
[166] - Quote
I have been (mis)using the new inventory for quite a while now, and in general I like it quite a lot and prefer it over the dozens of inventory screens that clutter my entire screen. However, I have been encountering few specific usuability issues I hit my head against often. I just describe problematic use case I encounter and suggest a possible solution, but truth be told I have no clue if those are feasible or whether my solution wont result in other problems.
My observation is that a lot of trouble or annoyance comes from (unintentionally) dragging an item(type) onto the wrong node. Occassionly I prefer to view both source and destination containers, which is somewhat difficult right now.
Some use cases I found the easiest way to open the inventory while in station is to just double click my ship in hangar :) * Awesome now the inventory tree opens, with the ship inventory - makes perfect sense, however, I wish to see my station items. * Also the tree is hidden => Perhaps shortcuts will help?
When I empty a container, specifically a jump freighter, I tend to hit CTRL-A and drag to item hangar. * Result: all ships remain in the jump freighter and I happily jump to my next destination only to discover my JF still contains the ships. The inverse happens as well, I (unintentionally) throw items into the ship hangar instead of item hangar and they refuse to move an inch. => Altho I am generally not infavor of systems trying to behave too 'intelligent' in this case a bit more intelligence will help I think. When I throw items in the ship hangar, or ships in the item hangar then my intention is to move from their current container into the station. Make it so?
Now it gets on a slippery slope with regarding to too much 'intelligence' in the system. I drag a ship onto my carrier * system deligently tells me the ship doesnt fit in cargo => perhaps I intended to move into ship maint bay?
I drag fuel into drone bay => perhaps intended to move into fuel bay?
Move ship on top of other ship => perhaps intended to move into ship hangar
Move item on top of other item (used to be problem with old inventory * not stackable => move item into parent hangar
|
jonny330
Ivy Mike's Munitions Expulsion Services
14
|
Posted - 2012.07.13 00:08:00 -
[167] - Quote
I must say I'm not a fan, but I can live with most of the new inventory. However I would like a way of getting straight to the ship hanger from the neocom with one click while in the hanger. Like the ship hanger from the old inventory system, or the Ships button in the Captain's Quarters. |
Fager
Xel'Naga Corp
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 09:19:00 -
[168] - Quote
Id just like to give my view on the new inventory from a player who plays EvE on and of since 2004.
Id like to first state that i am not jaded in the sense that im "used" to the old things, since i often take breaks from the game. I also have been spared of fueling POSes in my playtime.
But the new inventory, with tree view, shift klicks etc is ******* awesome. Extreemly easy to jump into and understand for anyone who has ever used a windows system ever before.
It feels smooth, clean and AWESOME.
For the first time playing eve i didnt get e headache on all the damn buttons for all the damn different inventories, drone bays, fuelbays etc... Its just 1 klick to access it all. And if i want to focus a hangar or ship cargo hold, i just shift klick it and i get a dedicated window for it. AWESOME!
Less windows, with more info showned in effective manner.
I just wanted to add some positivity in here for the new system, that has made EvE look mor elike a game and less like windows 98. TY CCP and please keep improving the inventory in this direction :) |
Gevlin
SMANews.net SpaceMonkey's Alliance
172
|
Posted - 2012.07.16 19:44:00 -
[169] - Quote
Last year on podcast and forum I heard the UI was crap. CCP puts a post on the new feature and ideas thread to gather feed back,
The make changes , to inventory control, making the organization more similare with windows 7, the have been making continuous changes in response to the player base.
I have yet to fuel a pos , but so far I have found the new UI azaming, eventhough it taking am alittle while to relearn it.
I do agree this change is needed as the game out grows its original design with ships lik the rorqual has 6 separate cargo holds Fuel, ore,cargo, drone, corp hanger, ship maintenance bay,not including the 7 tabs in the cop hanger.
. To help reduce window to monitor at the same time I would like be able join tabs lice corp and alliance and have the show up as different color typing and a toggle that will allow me reply to a specific channel, like city of heros sort of .
This way I only have to monitor 1tab adding more and more less active channels into the onI am watching. That should free up several windows. Also make the text boxed adjustable for layering so if I am clour blind I can send an empy dialog box behind the capacitor symbol , allowing me to maked my own letterbox look to it.
Hopefully after the universal inventory is complete other UI issue can be addressed.
Keep up the good work CCP Some day I will have the internet and be able to play again. |
Callidus Dux
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
527
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 06:45:00 -
[170] - Quote
Gevlin wrote:Last year on podcast and forum I heard the UI was crap. CCP puts a post on the new feature and ideas thread to gather feed back,
The make changes , to inventory control, making the organization more similare with windows 7, the have been making continuous changes in response to the player base.
I have yet to fuel a pos , but so far I have found the new UI azaming, eventhough it taking am alittle while to relearn it.
I do agree this change is needed as the game out grows its original design with ships lik the rorqual has 6 separate cargo holds Fuel, ore,cargo, drone, corp hanger, ship maintenance bay,not including the 7 tabs in the cop hanger.
. To help reduce window to monitor at the same time I would like be able join tabs lice corp and alliance and have the show up as different color typing and a toggle that will allow me reply to a specific channel, like city of heros sort of .
This way I only have to monitor 1tab adding more and more less active channels into the onI am watching. That should free up several windows. Also make the text boxed adjustable for layering so if I am clour blind I can send an empy dialog box behind the capacitor symbol , allowing me to maked my own letterbox look to it.
Hopefully after the universal inventory is complete other UI issue can be addressed.
Keep up the good work CCP
The question is: If it is possible to open new seperate windows via shift+click or some other mysterious sh!t shortcut, WHY THE HELL is it NOT possible to set a selection of new seperate windows as default within the ESC-menue? Looting is now such a fugging bad thing!
And NO!!! Stop the bad work CCP!! Please stop it at once! Stop renaming sh!t, stop to indroduce or change things no one ever wanted. Fire Arrow and his team and focus on performance issues again! I can't play EVE at present. Because of THIS: http://i50.tinypic.com/2ez1wz4.jpg |
|
Jayrendo Karr
Suns Of Korhal Terran Commonwealth
197
|
Posted - 2012.07.18 20:07:00 -
[171] - Quote
I would love double click to open a new window, i like the tree, but not at the current state, it should be a hybrid of both systems. |
Kaycerra
Black Lotus Heavy Industries Ethereal Dawn
1
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 06:35:00 -
[172] - Quote
+1
All the points made in makala's post are so very true, and intensely frustrating. Everything takes so much more effort now, where it shouldnt, more time, more clicks, more hassle, and even more confusion. |
Cpt Arareb
Ideal Machine
29
|
Posted - 2012.07.20 17:55:00 -
[173] - Quote
CCP rubberband wrote: "The Unified Inventory is here to stay, but we will continue to work on it so that it is something everyone can be happy with."
you have a hella of a task there, goodluck, you might need it |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
158
|
Posted - 2012.07.21 08:52:00 -
[174] - Quote
I am absolutely positive that you can mask the current UI to act like the old UI in function.
Add option to add buttons to get to locations that open as secondary windows. Always minimize tree view Show/Hide Isk evaluation double click new window toggle. close wreck window after "loot all" etc option to expand right click menu for ship bays/hangers
all this backpedaling is embarrassing. In the dev blog CCP Arrow asked us to confirm that one window was the answer. on sisi we said no it wasnt. and why. What's going on in Iceland? the week after it was on TQ and the problems started to pour in, what were you thinking? its been long enough that someone with authority over the project should have come on and presented how to do everything faster/easier then then the old UI.
all we have been given is workarounds that are slower and harder to use then the old UI was.
Where is the CCP video showing us how to use the UI? Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898 |
Kathryn Railly
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
26
|
Posted - 2012.07.22 06:55:00 -
[175] - Quote
Here is my feedback on how much I like the unified inventory system:
CCP Customer Support wrote:We are contacting you to remind you that according to our records you have 6 days left on your non-recurring subscription to EVE Online.
Below is a list of some of the payment options we currently provide for our subscribers.
More information and payment options are available through Account Management on the official EVE Online site.
Renew your subscription with:* 30-day Concord Pilot License (PLEX) PaySafeCard WebMoney PayPal Direct Debit iDEAL Most major credit and debit cards are also accepted, providing additional savings when used for 3-, 6- or 12- month recurring payments. Details can be found in Account Management.
We thank you for subscribing and being part of the world-renowned EVE Online community.
Regards, CCP customer support
One account lapsed and is on the shelf as of June, and my last two accounts will lapse and go on the shelf as of the end of this month. Should have listened to your players, I won't be back as long as CCP Soundwave continues to un-develop at CCP. |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
237
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 13:29:00 -
[176] - Quote
I think the main problem with the unified inventory is that there are a lot of shortcuts that players don't know exist. Shift double click to open a wreck in a new window, that closes when you loot all for example. When you have things that happen when you click, vs when you single click, vs when you double click, when you shift click, when you shift double click, etc. then the system gets too complex.
They simply need to standardize a way that things work: Single click changes the focus of the child window. Double click opens a new child window. Every child window needs to have a persistence.
Really though, they need to let go of the reins, and just make the UI client side, and let us mod it how we like. Most other games have known for a while that a default UI pleases no one, and never can. Maybe I want the market quickbar to have the info button on the left, so that it doesn't cover the extra text that i added. Maybe i want my wreck container window to simply be the Loot All button. Maybe i don't need a border around every window that simply adds to the limited viewing portal i already have. There are countless other examples that i would change that others would not, and that's the point of letting us mod them ourselves.
|
Ohh Yeah
Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion
209
|
Posted - 2012.07.24 22:37:00 -
[177] - Quote
Makalu did you seriously post a thread and then tell all of your muppets to come +1 it? Cripes |
Jovan Geldon
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
462
|
Posted - 2012.07.25 07:32:00 -
[178] - Quote
Ohh Yeah wrote:Makalu did you seriously post a thread and then tell all of your muppets to come +1 it? Cripes
He sure did. Even signed it too, just to make sure everyone knows what a super-special snowflake he is.
Jovan Geldon, Head Window Licker SniggWaffe |
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
187
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 11:36:00 -
[179] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:I think the main problem with the unified inventory is that there are a lot of shortcuts that players don't know exist. Shift double click to open a wreck in a new window, that closes when you loot all for example. When you have things that happen when you click, vs when you single click, vs when you double click, when you shift click, when you shift double click, etc. then the system gets too complex.
They simply need to standardize a way that things work: Single click changes the focus of the child window. Double click opens a new child window. Every child window needs to have a persistence.
Really though, they need to let go of the reins, and just make the UI client side, and let us mod it how we like. Most other games have known for a while that a default UI pleases no one, and never can. Maybe I want the market quickbar to have the info button on the left, so that it doesn't cover the extra text that i added. Maybe i want my wreck container window to simply be the Loot All button. Maybe i don't need a border around every window that simply adds to the limited viewing portal i already have. There are countless other examples that i would change that others would not, and that's the point of letting us mod them ourselves.
I had trouble understanding your explanation of all the ways to click/dbl-click... Yah, way too complex and NO TUTORIAL. If they made something so complex that nobody can figure out the (assumed) true coolness, they should have made a tutorial. They still can, but I think CCP is masochistic and likes all the player driven abuse. So, a tutorial is out of the question as it may stop the verbal abuse.
+1 to the modding community idea! But I have a feeling that CCP is either too paranoid or too arrogant to allow the modding community to get their hands on a client side UI code. Didn't they start charging some high fees for the API dev set ? No, I don't think CCP will give it away even though all of us know that the modding community will do a MUCH BETTER JOB (typically) for free to the players.
I have a much more fundamental concern: has CCP learned from this debacle, and will they continue to publish utter crap when warned by the player-testers on SiSI ? I may still hang around and wait to see some of the ship balancing stuff. But if CCP ever pulls another debacle like the UI, I'm perma-gone. There is simply too many other fun options and I don't need this continued frustration.
|
X Gallentius
Justified Chaos
327
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:40:00 -
[180] - Quote
Just let me right-click on my ship to open my drone bay (like I can do with the cargo bay). PLEASE! |
|
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
360
|
Posted - 2012.07.26 16:45:00 -
[181] - Quote
X Gallentius wrote:Just let me right-click on my ship to open my drone bay (like I can do with the cargo bay). PLEASE! That fuctionality will be restored on the 8th. It is live on Sisi. |
|
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp CCP Engineering Alliance
70
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 11:08:00 -
[182] - Quote
Hey all,
Quick update on this. Apologies that it has taken so long to get back to you, but I have been completely absorbed in other work. CCP Arrow is back from Holiday and is posting and updating the main Inferno 1.2 thread;
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136116&find=unread
We discussed a number of issues regarding the Unified Inventory and he is working on a strong plan to address them based on the feedback provided (short, medium and long term). Based on the previous points you guys posted I can say the fixes that are going to make it into Inferno 1.2 are (this list is NOT exhaustive):
- Fixed a consistency issue between the Fitting screen and the Inventory of when the Set Quantity window would be displayed. The Set Quantity pop up will now always display both in the Inventory and Fitting screen when dropping more drones or items than can be placed in its respective bay.
- Fixed an issue where individual corporate hangar division windows would not remember their positions in station after a session change.
- Fixed an issue where aligned windows would all minimized if shift click was used on the icon on the Neocom bar.
- Attempting to open another fleet members Corporation hangars or Ship maintenance bay that has not been enabled for fleet member usage, will no longer add a non functional closable location in the Inventory index tree.
- Fixed an issue where double clicking deliveries within the Market Deliveries / Returns would cause the Inventory focus to jump to your ships cargo hold.
- Removed the Open Container option from deliveries within the Market Deliveries / Returns folder, as the option was non functional.
- Fixed an issue where the green background of the active ship in the Inventory could be duplicated onto other ships.
- Fixed performance of the Unified Inventory when looting
- The right click contextual menu entries for ship bays have been reintroduced (partially fixed)
- Left clicking and dragging an Inventory location in the Index tree view out will create a new window
All little things, but hopefully they amount to a better quality of life experience. Also doing our best to try and get a shift toggle implementation in for Inferno 1.2. No promises as we still have a number of people on Vacation, but we will do our best.
Love from, Game of Drones |
|
Lord Helghast
Dirty Old Bastards Nulli Secunda
104
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 11:34:00 -
[183] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
- Fixed performance of the Unified Inventory when looting
- The right click contextual menu entries for ship bays have been reintroduced (partially fixed)
You realize A. that that first one should have been first in your list as the trolls are gonna miss it and sotp reading half way, because there trolls, and that was a HUGE complaint that finally got work done on it...
And the second one also should really be bolded due to its insane amount of people that demanded it, as for the partially fixed part though that i would like to know what didn't make it in? |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce Masters of Flying Objects
360
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 11:38:00 -
[184] - Quote
Lord Helghast wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:
- Fixed performance of the Unified Inventory when looting
- The right click contextual menu entries for ship bays have been reintroduced (partially fixed)
You realize A. that that first one should have been first in your list as the trolls are gonna miss it and sotp reading half way, because there trolls, and that was a HUGE complaint that finally got work done on it... And the second one also should really be bolded due to its insane amount of people that demanded it, as for the partially fixed part though that i would like to know what didn't make it in?
Rubberband can correct but I think he is refuring to the fact that non drone bay equiped ships still have a drone by right click option that opens the item inventory when in station. |
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
179
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 14:30:00 -
[185] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Fixed an issue where individual corporate hangar division windows would not remember their positions in station after a session change.
Just give us back the old TABS system for the corp hanger so we don't have to have all of them shift-clicked!!!
CCP RubberBAND wrote:
Left clicking and dragging an Inventory location in the Index tree view out will create a new window
So, we'll still have to use the bloody TREE???!?!?!? We are trying to avoid the tree. Also, when click-dragging...if we happen to land on a already existing window, and they stack? Bad idea. Just allow us to double-click = open new window, that is the way it used to be, and it sorta makes sense. (your excuse for not doing it makes no sense however) http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
|
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp CCP Engineering Alliance
71
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 14:34:00 -
[186] - Quote
Salpun wrote:Lord Helghast wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:
- Fixed performance of the Unified Inventory when looting
- The right click contextual menu entries for ship bays have been reintroduced (partially fixed)
You realize A. that that first one should have been first in your list as the trolls are gonna miss it and sotp reading half way, because there trolls, and that was a HUGE complaint that finally got work done on it... And the second one also should really be bolded due to its insane amount of people that demanded it, as for the partially fixed part though that i would like to know what didn't make it in? Rubberband can correct but I think he is refuring to the fact that non drone bay equiped ships still have a drone by right click option that opens the item inventory when in station.
Yes, among other issues. There are also instances where not all right click options are available in all scenarios. These are omissions/mistakes. I included the note for the benefit of everyone on the test forums. I should have perhaps clarified.
This is just a list pulled from a number of defects fixed so there is no real order. Once this goes through community it should be slightly better. Again the list is not exhaustive.
|
|
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
360
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 14:38:00 -
[187] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Salpun wrote:Lord Helghast wrote:CCP RubberBAND wrote:
- Fixed performance of the Unified Inventory when looting
- The right click contextual menu entries for ship bays have been reintroduced (partially fixed)
You realize A. that that first one should have been first in your list as the trolls are gonna miss it and sotp reading half way, because there trolls, and that was a HUGE complaint that finally got work done on it... And the second one also should really be bolded due to its insane amount of people that demanded it, as for the partially fixed part though that i would like to know what didn't make it in? Rubberband can correct but I think he is refuring to the fact that non drone bay equiped ships still have a drone by right click option that opens the item inventory when in station. Yes, among other issues. There are also instances where not all right click options are available in all scenarios. These are omissions/mistakes. I included the note for the benefit of everyone on the test forums. I should have perhaps clarified. This is just a list pulled from a number of defects fixed so there is no real order. Once this goes through community it should be slightly better. Again the list is not exhaustive.
|
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
179
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 15:03:00 -
[188] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote: Yes, among other issues. There are also instances where not all right click options are available in all scenarios. These are omissions/mistakes. I included the note for the benefit of everyone on the test forums. I should have perhaps clarified.
Does this mean you are fixing the inconsistent appearance of the orca corp hanger and drone bays depending on if you docked/undocked in space or warping? Because its kinda anoying to remember what state the ship needs to be in to access each bay w/o using the TREE. http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
Circumstantial Evidence
45
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 15:29:00 -
[189] - Quote
In post 128 I asked if performance of first-time hanger loading could be improved by sending only the Root level of station items to clients. This, in heavily stocked station scenarios where 1000+ items may be distributed among dozens of containers (ships, station containers) Don't send container contents until player requests it. |
|
CCP RubberBAND
CCP Engineering Corp CCP Engineering Alliance
71
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 16:25:00 -
[190] - Quote
Circumstantial Evidence wrote:In post 128 I asked if performance of first-time hanger loading could be improved by sending only the Root level of station items to clients. This, in heavily stocked station scenarios where 1000+ items may be distributed among dozens of containers (ships, station containers) Don't send container contents until player requests it.
Yes I saw this. This is not trivial to fix, we have an outstanding defect on this. It is due to how the server communicates with the client. Basically there are times when the server will wait to send all packets instead of sending them one by one, which is why you see the delay when you have a large number of items.
If you can upload your logs and a video of the issue though it would help investigating the issue. Apologies for this, but I cannot promise this fixed for Inferno 1.2.
And Panhead4411, yes (to the bays on the Orca)!
And you can leave you Item hangar open in station and it should stay open. Do this by SHIFT clicking on it. Also the Primary window has separate in station and in space hangars.
The corporate hangar issue is something we are aware of. Spoke with CCP Arrow about this as recently as yesterday. This however is one of the medium to long term issues. When I say Medium to Long, I mean 3 to 6 months.
Again those you can set up secondary windows in station for Items hangar, Ship hangar and all Corporation divisions. These windows will remain open next time you dock.
As a side note we hope to eventually have a video tutorial of using the Unified Inventory!
Finally not sure this distinction is clear yet, but Secondary windows are identified by the fact that they group separately to the main Inventory button on the Neocom. CCP Arrow also has plans to try and clarify or improve this distinction. |
|
|
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
179
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 17:07:00 -
[191] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote: And you can leave you Item hangar open in station and it should stay open. Do this by SHIFT clicking on it.
Yes, you can have Shift-clicked versions of the Item/Ships hangers. That is not the issue. The main 'station' inventory should default open to the items/ships...not a copy of your cargohold. (also, when doing this method, usually the 'main' window takes a higher priority than the Shift-clicked ones...so you have to dodge that window to get to the others, since dropping anything from your ship's shift-clicked cargo into your ships cargo in the main window is less than helpful when trying to undock again quickly.
CCP RubberBAND wrote: Also the Primary window has separate in station and in space hangars.
Yes, there are halfway separate windows between 'space' and 'station', but if you close the 'space' one, you have to then 'open' it next time you are in station. The point was they need to have their OWN state of 'closed/open-ness' seperated for each one. And, thanks for calling me and idiot w/o actually using the words...nice.
Also, everything that has suggested within just these 10 pages was suggested within 2 weeks of this thing turning up on SiSi. Just sayin. Especially the station corp hanger thing, why does it take so long to add the button back to the services section? (where there is a button to rent/unrent, were "corp hanger" button used to reside).
And about setting up the Shift-clicked windows to mirror what we had before this....attempting to do this occasionally causes the TREE to become permanently something like 5 pixels wide...needing to be resized every time one changes sessions in order to use or minimize it.
Speaking of mirroring old setup, can we please drop items into 'ships' and ships into 'items'....like we used to be able to? http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
386
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 23:01:00 -
[192] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Circumstantial Evidence wrote:In post 128 I asked if performance of first-time hanger loading could be improved by sending only the Root level of station items to clients. This, in heavily stocked station scenarios where 1000+ items may be distributed among dozens of containers (ships, station containers) Don't send container contents until player requests it. Yes I saw this. This is not trivial to fix, we have an outstanding defect on this. It is due to how the server communicates with the client. Basically there are times when the server will wait to send all packets instead of sending them one by one, which is why you see the delay when you have a large number of items. If you can upload your logs and a video of the issue though it would help investigating the issue. Apologies for this, but I cannot promise this fixed for Inferno 1.2. And Panhead4411, yes (to the bays on the Orca)! And you can leave you Item hangar open in station and it should stay open. Do this by SHIFT clicking on it. Also the Primary window has separate in station and in space hangars. The corporate hangar issue is something we are aware of. Spoke with CCP Arrow about this as recently as yesterday. This however is one of the medium to long term issues. When I say Medium to Long, I mean 3 to 6 months. Again those you can set up secondary windows in station for Items hangar, Ship hangar and all Corporation divisions. These windows will remain open next time you dock. As a side note we hope to eventually have a video tutorial of using the Unified Inventory! Finally not sure this distinction is clear yet, but Secondary windows are identified by the fact that they group separately to the main Inventory button on the Neocom. CCP Arrow also has plans to try and clarify or improve this distinction.
I have 1 more small request that will make me very very happy if you add it... Can you do so the bitter vets (includes me) can add shortcut to the ships hangar and items hangar to the neocom... and that these would open up with the tree-window minimized... (with this, for those of us who prefered it, much of the old functionality would be almost the same to us)
So to recap... ability to add shortcuts to the neocom to ships hangar and items hangar that would open them without the tree view
Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
mkint
831
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 23:14:00 -
[193] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote: As a side note we hope to eventually have a video tutorial of using the Unified Inventory!
Are you freakin' kidding us? You absolutely fail to meet a single objective of good UI design, and your proposed fix is a power point about how you're right and we're wrong, and the world just doesn't understand you genius just like the characters in your Harry Potter fanfic?
Good UI design: optimizing the workflow of your users.
What you gave us: complicated the workflow to the point of needing a tutorial where one was never previously needed.
You failed. Making a tutorial not only admits it, it indicates you obstinately refuse to fix your failure. I thought CCP wasn't going to do that any more since the fallout from space-barbie? |
Dave stark
Bombardier Inc
299
|
Posted - 2012.07.27 23:16:00 -
[194] - Quote
yeah, if you need a tutorial for people to be able to use your ui; then your ui sucks. Reading my posts is like panning for gold; most it will be useless, but occasionally you'll find a nugget of gold. |
spiders vengance
5th Front enterprises Gank for Profit
7
|
Posted - 2012.07.28 02:07:00 -
[195] - Quote
yes a tutorial will fix those pesky issues. Take the tree back to what ever place bad ideas come from and bury it in a deep hole. Moving things between ships used to be easy no more. Opening and closing the inventory with a ship cargo hold open used to be easy. Instead of doing things like listening to your player base who give you ideas how to fix your problems you just ignore or say "oh were on vacation but when we get back we'll work on that issue really hard." What we want is 15 sec turn arounds for moving things between ships and hangers. We want individual buttons for ship bay and inventory. We want to double click. We want to right click and see all our hangers and bays like we used to. We want tabs. I'm being polite but after the 30 minutes it took me to do my weekly ammo run that used to take me 5 minutes really makes me want to just cave in some skulls. You know what we want you to fix but instead you say "well you idiots are too stupid to know how to use this god given gift of an interface, here let us show you while ignoring your complaints." |
Urgg Boolean
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
189
|
Posted - 2012.07.29 11:41:00 -
[196] - Quote
I think a tutorial is a good idea and the sooner the better. I want to see the designer's take on how to efficiently use the new UI.
This has at least one major implication: it will force the Dev Team to actually use the new UI in the throes of writing a "lesson plan". Well, I can only assume that they would actually have to use it.
If there are features, pro tips, and tricks under the covers, I'd be happy to know about them, and a tutorial seems like a good way to communicate any potentially misunderstood functionality. Knowing a greater level of usage detail could potentially give us more to complain about ... or not.
TBH - I have logged more time on SiSi in the past three weeks than on TQ. I am going to hang loose awaiting the ship changes. But as I have said recently, if there is ever another debacle similar to the UI, I'm perma-gone. And this is not an emo-rage-quit statement at all. CCP downgraded their product's quality and made the game less fun and simultaneously more frustrating. I simply don't want this level of frustration as the ONLY point of a game is to have fun. I don't need all the drama either. |
Arcane Sun
Absense of Imagination
13
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 02:20:00 -
[197] - Quote
CCP RubberBAND wrote:Hey all, Quick update on this. Apologies that it has taken so long to get back to you, but I have been completely absorbed in other work. CCP Arrow is back from Holiday and is posting and updating the main Inferno 1.2 thread; https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=136116&find=unreadWe discussed a number of issues regarding the Unified Inventory and he is working on a strong plan to address them based on the feedback provided (short, medium and long term). Based on the previous points you guys posted I can say the fixes that are going to make it into Inferno 1.2 are (this list is NOT exhaustive):
- Fixed a consistency issue between the Fitting screen and the Inventory of when the Set Quantity window would be displayed. The Set Quantity pop up will now always display both in the Inventory and Fitting screen when dropping more drones or items than can be placed in its respective bay.
- Fixed an issue where individual corporate hangar division windows would not remember their positions in station after a session change.
- Fixed an issue where aligned windows would all minimized if shift click was used on the icon on the Neocom bar.
- Attempting to open another fleet members Corporation hangars or Ship maintenance bay that has not been enabled for fleet member usage, will no longer add a non functional closable location in the Inventory index tree.
- Fixed an issue where double clicking deliveries within the Market Deliveries / Returns would cause the Inventory focus to jump to your ships cargo hold.
- Removed the Open Container option from deliveries within the Market Deliveries / Returns folder, as the option was non functional.
- Fixed an issue where the green background of the active ship in the Inventory could be duplicated onto other ships.
- Fixed performance of the Unified Inventory when looting
- The right click contextual menu entries for ship bays have been reintroduced (partially fixed)
- Left clicking and dragging an Inventory location in the Index tree view out will create a new window
All little things, but hopefully they amount to a better quality of life experience. Also doing our best to try and get a shift toggle implementation in for Inferno 1.2. No promises as we still have a number of people on Vacation, but we will do our best. Love from, Game of Drones Ok cool, that all looks really great, hopefully now when I have to use a noctis it wont be such a chore. But as a serious question, is there really NO WAY that we could ever have the ships button back on the neocom? Maybe if there was no window open it could just open the ships window instead of inventory and if there was one open it would just open a new window by tying it to the shif-click>ships command? If at first you donGÇÖt succeed, call it version 1.0 |
Challu
Wishful Desires Inc. Armada Assail
50
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 07:50:00 -
[198] - Quote
Bubanni wrote:
I have 1 more small request that will make me very very happy if you add it... Can you do so the bitter vets (includes me) can add shortcut to the ships hangar and items hangar to the neocom... and that these would open up with the tree-window minimized... (with this, for those of us who prefered it, much of the old functionality would be almost the same to us)
So to recap... ability to add shortcuts to the neocom to ships hangar and items hangar that would open them without the tree view
This, please, please, please :)
Having the ship hanger and item hanger shortcuts will massively improve usability, sort of in the same order of magnitude as the right click option. |
Kusum Fawn
State War Academy Caldari State
170
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 16:49:00 -
[199] - Quote
I want a release date for this tutorial video. and a comparison video using the old UI doing the exact same things.
Its not possible to please all the people all the time, but it sure as hell is possible to Displease all the people, most of the time.
Ships to goo calc - https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=107898 |
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
244
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 17:07:00 -
[200] - Quote
Kusum Fawn wrote:I want a release date for this tutorial video. and a comparison video using the old UI doing the exact same things.
Then I suggest you get to work, as CCP is obviously not going to do that.
|
|
Entity
X-Factor Industries Synthetic Existence
262
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 19:58:00 -
[201] - Quote
+9001. I cannot get used to the new inventory system. It's extra clicks I don't need. It's nice to have, AS AN OPTION.
I want my inventories to open in a new window by default. GòªGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGòæGûæGûæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòæGûæGòæGûæGòöGòùGûæGòªGòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòªGòùGòöGòù GòæGûæGòöGòùGòöGòùGòöGòúGûæGòöGòùGòáGûæGûæGòáGûæGòáGòùGòáGò¥GûæGòæGòáGûæGòáGò¥GòæGòæGòæGòÜGòù Gò¬GòÉGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòÜGò¥GûæGòÜGò¥GòæGûæGûæGòÜGò¥GòæGòæGòÜGò¥GûæGò¬GòÜGò¥GòÜGò¥GòæGûæGòæGòÜGò¥ Got Item? |
Ooda
Treasures Collectors Solar Citizens
17
|
Posted - 2012.07.30 22:54:00 -
[202] - Quote
Entity wrote:+9001. I cannot get used to the new inventory system. It's extra clicks I don't need. It's nice to have, AS AN OPTION.
I want my inventories to open in a new window by default.
YES!
+9002! |
MWsx
Mothra inc Uprising.
0
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 16:23:00 -
[203] - Quote
(since most of good ideas here is ignored i have something thats not original but i dont care beacuse it might work)
WELCOME !!!
I HAVE WONDERFUL SOLUTION TO ALL PROBLEMS WITH UI'ed UI
ITS FREE !!! NO ISK RISK !!! SATISFACTION GUARNTEED !!!
TREE is old, ugly and obsolete since windows 3.11 Everything i know follow one direction, and Eve is no exeption -
GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ GûæTTTTTTGûæGûæGûæGûæAAGûæGûæGûæGûæBBBBGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæSSSSGûæGûæ!!Gûæ GûæTTTTTTGûæGûæGûæGûæAAGûæGûæGûæGûæBBBBGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæSSSSGûæGûæ!!Gûæ GûæGûæGûæTTGûæGûæGûæGûæAAGûæGûæAAGûæGûæBBGûæGûæBBGûæGûæSSGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ!!Gûæ GûæGûæGûæTTGûæGûæGûæGûæAAGûæGûæAAGûæGûæBBGûæGûæBBGûæGûæSSGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ!!Gûæ GûæGûæGûæTTGûæGûæGûæGûæAAAAAAGûæGûæBBBBGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæSSGûæGûæGûæGûæ!!Gûæ GûæGûæGûæTTGûæGûæGûæGûæAAAAAAGûæGûæBBBBGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæSSGûæGûæGûæGûæ!!Gûæ GûæGûæGûæTTGûæGûæGûæGûæAAGûæGûæAAGûæGûæBBGûæGûæBBGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæSSGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ GûæGûæGûæTTGûæGûæGûæGûæAAGûæGûæAAGûæGûæBBGûæGûæBBGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæSSGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ GûæGûæGûæTTGûæGûæGûæGûæAAGûæGûæAAGûæGûæBBBBGûæGûæGûæGûæSSSSGûæGûæGûæGûæ!!Gûæ GûæGûæGûæTTGûæGûæGûæGûæAAGûæGûæAAGûæGûæBBBBGûæGûæGûæGûæSSSSGûæGûæGûæGûæ!!Gûæ GûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæGûæ
TABS ! TABS ! TABS ! TABS !
BUT BUT BUT WHY ?
Well because most of internet browsers have tabs and ...
Corp Wallet has tabs Corp management has tabs Corp hangar (used to) have tab Market has tabs Chat channels have tabs
and pinnacle of creation .... OVERVIEW THAT HAS CUSTIOMIZABLE TABS !!!
so: 1. Please just do one invetory window that will have station specific: item tab, ships tab, current cargohold tab, curent drone bay tab, etc.
2. Add tab profiles (just like overview profiles) to have filtered tabs (ie. bluprints tab, minerals tab, ammo tab)
3. Doubleclicking ship or container will open it in new tab
Just something like "Personal assets->station tab" but more "functional" (CUSTOMIZABLE)
SHINY TABS
Hey, wait, doesn't current inventory have tabs ?
NOT ENOUGH !!! |
Salpun
Paramount Commerce
365
|
Posted - 2012.07.31 16:28:00 -
[204] - Quote
CCP Punkeritus is on the case for the next week or so. There is light at the end of the tunnel.
I expect most of what we have been asking for to be fixed in this upcoming patch.
Edit: To soon. She made an important fix to the shift fuctionality. Now she is back to the fitting stuff. |
Pierced Brosmen
Priory Of The Lemon
100
|
Posted - 2012.08.01 13:21:00 -
[205] - Quote
MWsx wrote: Chat channels have tabs
Actualy that isn't entirely true... the tabbed chat channels are separate chat windows that have been stacked. You can actualy stack inventory and chat windows (or most other windows for that matter) together in the same fassion, though the usefullness of that functionality is not clear to me...
One major change I would like to see is the return of the tabs for corp hangars, so when clicking (or shift-clicking) the "Corporate hangar" in the tree, you would load the corp hangar defaulting to the hangar division you used last (like the old inventory did) and with the different divisions listed in tabs, horisontally... When dealing with lots of pos modules, the tree view gets annoyingly long when you have to expand the divisions for every single array you are going to access... especialy when only using the same hangar division all the time... |
|
CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3047
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 11:23:00 -
[206] - Quote
Ship Maintenance Bay and Corp Hangars on the Orca seem to have been missing from the reintroduction of right clicks on ships but they are back in now
also, not showing open drone bay when ship doesn't have a drone bay Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
|
Wilba
Holding Cell
0
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 14:00:00 -
[207] - Quote
New addition to inventory.
Open inventory. Click on bars (top left corner) tick "Always open in separate window" Now double click can in space and it opens in new inventory window
|
|
CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3054
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 14:19:00 -
[208] - Quote
Wilba wrote:New addition to inventory.
Open inventory. Click on bars (top left corner) tick "Always open in separate window" Now double click can in space and it opens in new inventory window
if you tick this, clicking or double clicking on things will work as you did by shift clicking before
for example if you click on the cargo button now without holding in shift you get a non-treeview cargo window Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
|
Kalel Nimrott
Wishful Desires Inc. Armada Assail
29
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 15:13:00 -
[209] - Quote
The ammounts of tears from this thread rivals those of C&P. Keep them comming, boys!, while I play with my new inventory system. |
Dark' Lord
Infinitus Odium
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 18:14:00 -
[210] - Quote
CCP has returned back to being bad at listening too the people that give them the money to exist. So no matter how many people ***** about their stupid ideas like this new inventory which is terrible by any standards, CCP will just ignore and carry on.
Get used to it people they ususaly get better but it's in cycles of about 3years at a time so we have another year and a bit of CCP being useless then they will beg for forgivness and actualy make changes people want then reapeat the cycle. |
|
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
182
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:10:00 -
[211] - Quote
CCP Punturis, we love you, we really do, but why are you the only one apparently caring about this anymore? Its not done, there is lots of helpful feedback through this very thread that has yet to be 'iterated' (why you (CCP) love that word i'll never know) on.
My previous for example...post 191 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1707365#post1707365.
And Corp TABS!!!!!! please give them back. http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
Bubanni
SniggWaffe YOUR VOTES DON'T COUNT
403
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 19:57:00 -
[212] - Quote
Running out of stuff to hate about the new inventory... basicly once the neocom shortcuts to ships and items hangar are added back I will have nothing left to complain about :D Christmas wish list https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&t=134275 Module activation delay! https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1180934 |
|
CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3062
|
Posted - 2012.08.02 20:07:00 -
[213] - Quote
Panhead4411 wrote:CCP Punturis, we love you, we really do, but why are you the only one apparently caring about this anymore? Its not done, there is lots of helpful feedback through this very thread that has yet to be 'iterated' (why you (CCP) love that word i'll never know) on. My previous for example...post 191 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1707365#post1707365.And Corp TABS!!!!!! please give them back.
everybody is still on vacation
I'm the only User Interface programmer in the office this week so I was just fixing a few things for the deployment next week to help the team out who owns this - I hope my little efforts will at least make some difference.
I know CCP Arrow has a long list of things he wants to do to improve the inventory Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
|
Rengerel en Distel
Amarr Science and Industry
267
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 14:09:00 -
[214] - Quote
CCP Punkturis wrote:Panhead4411 wrote:CCP Punturis, we love you, we really do, but why are you the only one apparently caring about this anymore? Its not done, there is lots of helpful feedback through this very thread that has yet to be 'iterated' (why you (CCP) love that word i'll never know) on. My previous for example...post 191 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1707365#post1707365.And Corp TABS!!!!!! please give them back. everybody is still on vacation I'm the only User Interface programmer in the office this week so I was just fixing a few things for the deployment next week to help the team out who owns this - I hope my little efforts will at least make some difference. I know CCP Arrow has a long list of things he wants to do to improve the inventory
It is heart-warming to know that most of the teams schedule their vacations during the testing/build phase of a release. I know it's just coming from an American perspective, where if you take 2 days in a row off, other people at work slash your tires for being so selfish ... it just seems a bit ridiculous to push a patch when no one is actually there to do anything.
|
|
CCP Punkturis
C C P C C P Alliance
3096
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 16:44:00 -
[215] - Quote
Rengerel en Distel wrote:CCP Punkturis wrote:Panhead4411 wrote:CCP Punturis, we love you, we really do, but why are you the only one apparently caring about this anymore? Its not done, there is lots of helpful feedback through this very thread that has yet to be 'iterated' (why you (CCP) love that word i'll never know) on. My previous for example...post 191 https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1707365#post1707365.And Corp TABS!!!!!! please give them back. everybody is still on vacation I'm the only User Interface programmer in the office this week so I was just fixing a few things for the deployment next week to help the team out who owns this - I hope my little efforts will at least make some difference. I know CCP Arrow has a long list of things he wants to do to improve the inventory It is heart-warming to know that most of the teams schedule their vacations during the testing/build phase of a release. I know it's just coming from an American perspective, where if you take 2 days in a row off, other people at work slash your tires for being so selfish ... it just seems a bit ridiculous to push a patch when no one is actually there to do anything.
Most teams did all their work before everybody went on vacation. July is the "vacation month". I'm sorry you don't get vacation since I think a good vacation is very healthy for employees not to end up burnt out and I always come back from vacation full of enthusiasm
Maybe you should move to Europe.. Gÿà EVE User Interface Programmer Gÿà GÖÑ Team Super Friends GÖÑ @CCP_Punkturis My Dev Blogs |
|
Jarin Arenos
Card Shark Industries
26
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 18:34:00 -
[216] - Quote
Dear god I need to move to Europe. Don't suppose you need any network techs? |
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
182
|
Posted - 2012.08.03 22:18:00 -
[217] - Quote
Jarin Arenos wrote:Dear god I need to move to Europe. Don't suppose you need any network techs?
You didn't watch much of the tourny feed did you? (well, that was when it was actually watchable) http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
Ooda
Treasures Collectors Solar Citizens
18
|
Posted - 2012.08.04 17:09:00 -
[218] - Quote
The biggest problem with the new inventory is that it requires a shift - click to open up new windows - if this is going to be fixed, the major part is done (tbh: it was the most terrible idea I've ever seen, and the fact that one DEV in this thread started to troll us players with his whole "THERE IS NO PROBLEM FFS" -bullcrap makes me sad - thanks for nothing CCP RubbishBAND).
Other concerns:
- As a miner with 3 hulks - it is a damn pain in my butt that I have to open up orca's corphangar everytime I haul. Remove window-closing if object is offgrid - just leave the damn window open, ty!
- Interface delay - click SHIFT + open Corphangar on a Orca - if delay hits you and you release shift to early - your current window will switch to corp-hangar instead and you have to close it - open it again AND - because of the new inventory - sort your crystals again == really annoying
|
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
4
|
Posted - 2012.08.06 17:13:00 -
[219] - Quote
I took 2 months off in hopes the UI would be fixed to the point of it being configurable then as usable as the old inventory system was, it's a tiny bit better on sisi now but still needs lots of work, If I didn't love Eve so much the UI would have been a deal breaker and I would have quit for good..
I honestly can't see how people who manage POS guns or other similar "lots of different stuff going lots of different places" uses the UI and don't go completely insane from rage then kills there entire family.
The UI is the ONLY thing that I dislike about Eve, I can live with the other faults it has but the UI actually makes me angry to use.
I still have my POS mothballed to keep my sanity and family alive, please CCP help keep me (sorta) sane and my family alive and make the UI configurable to function as well as the old inventory system was..!! |
Mini Mizer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 18:00:00 -
[220] - Quote
arg still a mess blah "compelling posts" blah more typing blah more words ... give everyone free game time... but not before it's "fixed" "soon" (tm)
trees grow, die, get chopped down, or trimmed up. turned into fire wood that warms a house.
some of us don't want a tree anywhere in our view. some of EVE apparantly may not be back or not till 2013.
this shouldn't have happened. this was total crap and not sugar coating it. |
|
Mini Mizer
Federal Navy Academy Gallente Federation
6
|
Posted - 2012.08.08 18:24:00 -
[221] - Quote
"As a side note we hope to eventually have a video tutorial of using the Unified Inventory!"
sigh arg blah so it isn't efficient or easy to understand what you want to accomplish so you need to make a video that will no doubt not show what you want interpretted til version 3 of the video. :)
so ... |
Panhead4411
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
201
|
Posted - 2012.08.10 18:59:00 -
[222] - Quote
And again...still haven't touched these issues...
CCP RubberBAND wrote: And you can leave you Item hangar open in station and it should stay open. Do this by SHIFT clicking on it.
Yes, you can have Shift-clicked versions of the Item/Ships hangers. That is not the issue. The main 'station' inventory should default open to the items/ships...not a copy of your cargohold. Also, when doing this method, usually the 'main' window takes a higher priority than the Shift-clicked ones...so you have to dodge that window to get to the others, since dropping anything from your ship's shift-clicked cargo into your ships cargo in the main window is less than helpful when trying to undock again quickly.
CCP RubberBAND wrote: Also the Primary window has separate in station and in space hangars.
Yes, there are halfway separate windows between 'space' and 'station', but if you close the 'space' one, you have to then 'open' it next time you are in station. The point was they need to have their OWN state of 'closed/open-ness' seperated for each one. And, thanks for calling me and idiot w/o actually using the words...nice.
Also, everything that has suggested within just these 10 pages was suggested within 2 weeks of this thing turning up on SiSi. Just sayin. Especially the station corp hanger thing, why does it take so long to add the button back to the services section? (where there is a button to rent/unrent, were "corp hanger" button used to reside).
And about setting up the Shift-clicked windows to mirror what we had before this....attempting to do this occasionally causes the TREE to become permanently something like 5 pixels wide...needing to be resized every time one changes sessions in order to use or minimize it.
Speaking of mirroring old setup, can we please drop items into 'ships' and ships into 'items'....like we used to be able to? http://blog.beyondreality.se/shift-click-does-nothing -á-á < Unified Inventory is NOT ready... |
Spc One
The Chodak Void Alliance
69
|
Posted - 2012.08.11 07:36:00 -
[223] - Quote
It would be awesome if we could pin buttons to neocom. For example user can pin ships and items (and other) buttons to neocom, so nextime i want to see my ships i just one click that button.
I think it's possible.
|
Arcane Sun
Absense of Imagination
13
|
Posted - 2012.08.13 03:26:00 -
[224] - Quote
Spc One wrote:It would be awesome if we could pin buttons to neocom. For example user can pin ships and items (and other) buttons to neocom, so nextime i want to see my ships i just one click that button.
I think it's possible.
Its entirely possible, in fact, this is the only major problem I have had with the UI since it's implementation, The lacking of shortcuts that we have had for years. but CCP apparently hates shortcuts and fun with the fury of a thousand volcanoes and wants to make the UI SEEM easier to use while in reality its a total s***fest when it comes to being intuitive.
Hence the tree. If at first you donGÇÖt succeed, call it version 1.0 |
Il Reverendo
Brutor Tribe Minmatar Republic
5
|
Posted - 2012.08.14 14:23:00 -
[225] - Quote
Entity wrote:+9001. I cannot get used to the new inventory system. It's extra clicks I don't need. It's nice to have, AS AN OPTION.
I want my inventories to open in a new window by default.
Few other things: yes you can double-click to open things in new windows but it also changes the original window. Also a crapload of lag seems to have been introduced to many inventory operations, especially moving ships between hangars.
Took a couple of months off eve, came back to this; horrible, horrible, horrible and in the end, redundant. Doesn't make anything faster or simpler for me, just makes everything more laggy, take more clicks and takes me longer to find anything or get anything done (i'm also finding much easier to lose track of items in the tree and generally make mistakes because of it). The whole thing strikes me as poorly thought out and poorly implemented. New shinyness for the sake of new shinyness.
Can we get an option to disable it and go back to the simple system? (I'd guess the answer is no to this which means it looks like you guys have a crapload of tuning to do on this
|
RangerGord
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
3
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 00:20:00 -
[226] - Quote
so i think i remember them saying they are going to work on it til its fixed... but i still see many issues with it
primarily with the fact that if i have the inventory screen open in the station (where i want to see what i have), as soon as i undock its taking up my whole screen in space (where i don't care what i have), so naturally i close it, then the next time i dock at a station, i have to re-open my inventory screen to see what i have, then either close it before i undock (since i don't want to see an extra large version of my ships cargo) or close it after i undock
i like that they finally separated the windows so i wasn't screwed if i accidentally closed it instead of minimizing it while in space, but can't they separate the 'state' of the window too (since the obviously separated the windows and its position/size)?
and i'm still getting lost when the tree auto expands randomly when i get in the station, i don't care what ships i have nor do i want to see another window with my current ships cargo, either default it to the ships or the items, not the current ship's cargo again
finally, please auto close a ship's cargo window after i change/leave ship, i don't know how many times i have dropped modules/stuff into the open cargo window after changing ships only to realize it wasn't my current ship's cargo like we used to have with the old system (when you changed ships the cargo window changed to match)
i can't be the only one that still having issues with this wonderfully rushed shiney new feature that is full of holes that in some cases were brought up from the test server only to be ignored |
Ooda
Treasures Collectors Solar Citizens
20
|
Posted - 2012.08.23 16:32:00 -
[227] - Quote
The fact that I have to reopen the large assembly array hanger I'm using to store the Ice I'm mining everytime my cargo is full has advanced to the most annoying feature of this mess called Unified inventory.
Please remove this, or give us the option to leave a window open even if you leave the same grid by just pinning the window.
PLEASE, thats the least thing you could do after forcing us into using it and trolling us because we are bringing up valid complains, ty! So many wasted clicks on that one...
|
LuncaPuP
The Dark Tribe Against ALL Authorities
1
|
Posted - 2012.08.24 14:44:00 -
[228] - Quote
+1 |
Pinky Denmark
The Cursed Navy
186
|
Posted - 2012.08.27 12:57:00 -
[229] - Quote
plz default minimized "filter", plz let me default open or closed "tree", and plz have the window keep the resized dimension even if I close it and open it again... |
RangerGord
Rothschild's Sewage and Septic Sucking Services The Possum Lodge
3
|
Posted - 2012.09.02 13:35:00 -
[230] - Quote
i'm tempted to just start a new thread about this since its quite apparent the devs aren't paying attention to this anymore...
they will take the time to update spelling/grammar changes, resize ships and scew their stats inconsistently with their physical size just to "balance" everything, but they won't touch anything still broken with the inventory
i (and my brother as well) had to fight with the previous cargo window a ton yesterday while fitting up a bunch of new ships and flying around carrying stuff all over the place, very very very annoying
did anyone at ccp ever sit down with the old system, write down what it did and how it reacted to players actions, then go through the new system, figure out everything it did (and didn't do), then discussed if these "enhanced features" were worth the cost, or at the very least how to fix it? |
|
Grombutz
Treasures Collectors Solar Citizens
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.07 23:49:00 -
[231] - Quote
RangerGord wrote:i'm tempted to just start a new thread about this since its quite apparent the devs aren't paying attention to this anymore...
they will take the time to update spelling/grammar changes, resize ships and scew their stats inconsistently with their physical size just to "balance" everything, but they won't touch anything still broken with the inventory
i (and my brother as well) had to fight with the previous cargo window a ton yesterday while fitting up a bunch of new ships and flying around carrying stuff all over the place, very very very annoying
did anyone at ccp ever sit down with the old system, write down what it did and how it reacted to players actions, then go through the new system, figure out everything it did (and didn't do), then discussed if these "enhanced features" were worth the cost, or at the very least how to fix it?
go ahead, I will happily join. |
Kingston Black
Hostile. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
47
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 16:58:00 -
[232] - Quote
I still hate the new system with a passion.
I go on roadtrips a lot so im forever changing ships trading them between chars and storing them and mods & ammo in carriers and jumping them. This new system makes any form of logistics/moving a ******* nightmare. What was a pretty awful job is now plain hell I spent two hours loading carriers yesterday and two thirds of that was strugging with a UI that seems to want me to hang myself.
How on gods green earth anyone thought this mess was a good idea is beyond me. Sure if you only own one ship and all you do is move ore between the cargohold and a can it works well but try have 300 items in hangar, 15-20 ships and a load of cans like most people who have played the game for years
awful awful mess |
Kingston Black
Hostile. PURPLE HELMETED WARRIORS
47
|
Posted - 2012.09.08 17:00:00 -
[233] - Quote
Also I do ohh so love the
"Is this the corporate hanger or the corporate hanger of my carrier I don't know this treeview is addling my poor wee mind dance"
ARGH |
Vegare
The Legion of Darkness
56
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 14:48:00 -
[234] - Quote
CCP, are you still working on improvements for the Unified Inventory, or do you think this feature is in its finished state? |
Alea
Pator Tech School Minmatar Republic
6
|
Posted - 2012.09.13 21:03:00 -
[235] - Quote
I do pray they are not even remotely finished with the UI. |
Vegare
The Legion of Darkness
56
|
Posted - 2012.09.14 10:28:00 -
[236] - Quote
So am I |
Logicycle
Terra Incognita Intrepid Crossing
71
|
Posted - 2012.09.15 03:25:00 -
[237] - Quote
This thread deserves to stay at the top of the heap for a while. |
Grey Stormshadow
draketrain Confederation of xXPIZZAXx
1391
|
Posted - 2012.09.16 01:42:00 -
[238] - Quote
After taking few months break I'm happy to see that the "new" inventory system has made some progress from the state it was when I left. However after seeing that threads related to further tweaking have been "ignored/unanswered" by CCP lately makes me almost cry. What happened to the promises about "not giving up before inventory system fine again" ?
Personally I define it being fine at the point where I don't need to open the side bar if I choose not to. That would require direct access to ship cargo, hangar floor, ship hangar, market deliveries and corporation hangars from somewhere else than the side bar.
Technically what has to be done is following;
- Making it possible to drag and drop or other way add ship hangar, hangar floor, corp hangar and market deliveries window shortcuts to neocom bar for easy access. Ship cargo would be bonus but as you can open it by double clicking background image, it is not mandatory.
- Giving us back primary corp hangar window which has all the hangar folders and making it possible to set those sub hangar windows to open stacked with the primary window by default. This has to be done like this mainly to mimic/replace the tab feature which was lost during initial unified inventory introduction. Besides it wouldn't harm to view the hangar list while clicking the "corporation hangars"-item on side menu also. Currently it only expands the menu on selector bar, but nothing appears to main window. This is not how you would expect it to behave. Also without this kind of functionality entire thing would be rather impossible to link in neo com bar as shortcut window.
These are not very big things, but make huge difference in playability. It makes me sad that it takes months if not years to get 'em done. Please give the user interface higher priority in your schedules.
Currently the "always open to new window"-option gives me some comfort zone to live in, but after reading previous lines you probably noticed that currently digging up the windows if you accidentally close them is real pain if you tend to keep the all the side menus closed by default. There is the reasoning what you're looking for.
On lower priority list I would also like to see the "bottom bar" with isk values and such "optional" to save some screen estate, but that is not any major problem like primary ones I mentioned. Just something I wanted to mention to the end.
Thank you.
Get |
Grombutz
Treasures Collectors Solar Citizens
0
|
Posted - 2012.09.18 22:51:00 -
[239] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:After taking few months break I'm happy to see that the "new" inventory system has made some progress from the state it was when I left. However after seeing that threads related to further tweaking have been "ignored/unanswered/trolled" by CCP lately makes me almost cry. What happened to the promises about "not giving up before inventory system fine again" ?
Excuse me Sir, but I fixed that for you. |
Smohq Anmirorz
State War Academy Caldari State
48
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 22:13:00 -
[240] - Quote
What I have to say is probably a repeat of earlier posts in this thread.
I can't figure out the windows. Sometimes I get two of the same window when it was not what I was intending. The filters pane below the tree is a real pain. I never use it, but it is always there and I have to click it every time to get rid of it. It is getting very tedious. The scroll bar on the side of the tree is too thin. I keep adjust the width of the windows when I want to scroll down the tree. A little less annoying, but also tedious. Thank you.
|
|
Sycotic Deninard
Polaris Breach Corp
23
|
Posted - 2012.11.07 23:30:00 -
[241] - Quote
I don't know why CCP decided to "fix" the UI in the first place. The current system is counter intuitive and a pain in the ass to use.
CCP, heres a hint for you in the future: Don't fix something that isn't broken!
Now that you have broken it, fix it. |
Vae Abeo
Vae Caudex Corporation
14
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 03:21:00 -
[242] - Quote
+1 |
wolfslo
Deadly Influence ZADA ALLIANCE
0
|
Posted - 2012.11.08 08:00:00 -
[243] - Quote
Stop whining and get used to it. You'll want these settings to stay on the next patch in the future (that's how conservatists work) So, rather write constructive posts that will bring new intuitive stuff rather than whine about stuff being modernized. |
|
|
|
Pages: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 :: [one page] |