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Torp Stealth Bombers - What happened to Cruise?

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Napro Caldari The New Eden Syndicate IMPERIUM.	Posted - 2009.12.13 04:24:00 - [1] Why were the Mantis cruise missiles replaced with torps? Now I got a ship that can only hit out at Max 60KM (an easily killable range)... has Drake-like DPS without the range.. (248dps@60KM vs 270DPS@84KM). What is the point of this ship? The only possible benefit I can see with this is removing a ship's shield with its large volley dmg... but that really only benefits the Purifier with its EM bonus. That also means you'd have to have something heavy flying BEHIND you to kill em off. Can someone explain how I'm supposed to use these torp bombers?
BA Hauler	Posted - 2009.12.13 04:33:00 - [2] They're best used in groups. They also lowered the cost of bombs and are much more useful now.
Chajitsoyo Gallente Sanford Space Salvage	Posted - 2009.12.13 04:34:00 - [3] Are you factoring in the bomb damage as well? Along with the changes to SB's, the price for bombs was dropped considerably. I'd assume due to the range you have on a bomb deployment, torps kick out alot more DPS, especially towards larger targets, while still being in the same weapon range. The can also now fit a covops cloak. The changes made to SB's have definitely brought their popularity way up previous to apocrypha --------------------------------- Everything in moderation, including moderation.
Needle Juice Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2009.12.13 04:40:00 - [4] welcome to 2009... look at the rest of the ship's abilities now. it is much improved in its current form. fit torps and a !COV OPS CLOAK! now you have a scout that can do good damage to cruiser and up targets with a very small sig radius. plus they are a lot more fun to fly now __________________________________________________
Drazin DawnTreader Cutthroat Mercenary Corp	Posted - 2009.12.13 05:20:00 - [5] Edited by: Drazin DawnTreader on 13/12/2009 05:23:01 I dont know about everyone else, but my Manticore cranks out 650 DPS @ 54km (rage torps) which is simply amazing coming from a frigate hull. I love the change to torpedoes and warping cloaked. Sure, I miss one shotting every frigate that came near me, especially baiting Interceptors to try and tackle me... but now I can lay the smack down on much bigger ships and live to tell the tale. @OP: You need to rework your bomber setup cuz your DPS is not even close to what the ships are capable of these days. Once you do, I think you will like the sacrifice in range for the sheer damage and destruction you can dish out now. edit You can always use Javelins for 90+km range and still do 450ish DPS, But you have to be within 30km to use the bombs, so the rage torps are just fine with me.
Myra2007 Perkone	Posted - 2009.12.13 05:55:00 - [6] OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite: 1) Mantis? lol n1 2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak? 3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets? 4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption. Some people use it for ninja ratting and i've heard people even use it to do fw missions. I am sure there is a lot more (i.e. bombs) but i am tired so w/e. -- Originally by: Professor Slocombe I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
Stu Pid	Posted - 2009.12.13 06:59:00 - [7] Originally by: Myra2007 OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite: 1) Mantis? lol n1 2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak? 3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets? 4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption. Some people use it for ninja ratting and i've heard people even use it to do fw missions. I am sure there is a lot more (i.e. bombs) but i am tired so w/e. I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh.
Drakan290	Posted - 2009.12.13 07:25:00 - [8] Originally by: Stu Pid Originally by: Myra2007 OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite: 1) Mantis? lol n1 2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak? 3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets? 4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption. Some people use it for ninja ratting and i've heard people even use it to do fw missions. I am sure there is a lot more (i.e. bombs) but i am tired so w/e. I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh. To all people that were playing the game, they had sufficient time to train into these ships. Not only do they do lots more damage, bomb launcher prereqs have been significantly lowered, and they've been equipped with a covops cloak. If you waited multiple months to complain about torp changes, I have one saying for you. Adapt or Die.
Chajitsoyo Gallente Sanford Space Salvage	Posted - 2009.12.13 07:27:00 - [9] Originally by: Stu Pid Originally by: Myra2007 OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite: 1) Mantis? lol n1 2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak? 3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets? 4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption. Some people use it for ninja ratting and i've heard people even use it to do fw missions. I am sure there is a lot more (i.e. bombs) but i am tired so w/e. I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh. you may be glad to know they've lowered the pre-req's to train torp launchers and bomb launchers. now you only need missle launcher operation IV and missle bombardment IV as opposed to lvl 5 in each, so it shouldn't take you long at all to retrain. --------------------------------- Everything in moderation, including moderation.
Stu Pid	Posted - 2009.12.13 08:09:00 - [10] Originally by: Drakan290 Originally by: Stu Pid I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh. To all people that were playing the game, they had sufficient time to train into these ships. Not only do they do lots more damage, bomb launcher prereqs have been significantly lowered, and they've been equipped with a covops cloak. If you waited multiple months to complain about torp changes, I have one saying for you. Adapt or Die. Seems you have no clue. Well I will explain it to you slowly... You stop training with your main so you can train a bomber alt and after you done with cruise up to adv lvl4 ccp decides to change this cruise to torps! So you just lost the training time from lvl1 cruise to adv lvl4 for nothing. Did I explain this slow enough ?

Shady Salesman	Posted - 2009.12.13 08:49:00 - [11] Originally by: Stu Pid Originally by: Drakan290 Originally by: Stu Pid I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh. To all people that were playing the game, they had sufficient time to train into these ships. Not only do they do lots more damage, bomb launcher prereqs have been significantly lowered, and they've been equipped with a covops cloak. If you waited multiple months to complain about torp changes, I have one saying for you. Adapt or Die. Seems you have no clue. Well I will explain it to you slowly... You stop training with your main so you can train a bomber alt and after you done with cruise up to adv lvl4 ccp decides to change this cruise to torps! So you just lost the training time from lvl1 cruise to adv lvl4 for nothing. Did I explain this slow enough ? This is why "The Power of Two" is a really good deal...
Napro Caldari The New Eden Syndicate IMPERIUM.	Posted - 2009.12.13 09:03:00 - [12] Edited by: Napro on 13/12/2009 09:03:44 You trolls can't even figure out what to troll about.. You got some trolls arguing about the the lowered pre-reqs for torps... And you got other trolls arguing about using Tech 2 Torps... Can you trolls decide what you're arguing for/against , plz?
Stu Pid	Posted - 2009.12.13 09:05:00 - [13] Originally by: Shady Salesman Originally by: Stu Pid Originally by: Drakan290 Originally by: Stu Pid I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh. To all people that were playing the game, they had sufficient time to train into these ships. Not only do they do lots more damage, bomb launcher prereqs have been significantly lowered, and they've been equipped with a covops cloak. If you waited multiple months to complain about torp changes, I have one saying for you. Adapt or Die. Seems you have no clue. Well I will explain it to you slowly... You stop training with your main so you can train a bomber alt and after you done with cruise up to adv lvl4 ccp decides to change this cruise to torps! So you just lost the training time from lvl1 cruise to adv lvl4 for nothing. Did I explain this slow enough ? This is why "The Power of Two" is a really good deal... Yes I got power of two and so got two mains and 4 alts but this does not take a way the fact that I wasted skill time which I could use for many other things on my toons. I got this bomber alt as he is just for that and so when I lose him its cheap clone and not my 75+ mill sp clones full of hardwires and implants and yes got also jc's which are full for all different tasks to max out on the mains. Its just training some skill up to adv lvl4 for nothing, wonder if you do this?
Napro Caldari The New Eden Syndicate IMPERIUM.	Posted - 2009.12.13 09:17:00 - [14] Originally by: Myra2007 OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite: 1) Mantis? lol n1 Quote: 2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak? A hyuk hyuk, and the ability to be one shotted by anything? Or do you plan on sitting there and dueling it out with a cruiser, Cletus? Quote: 3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets? Torps 4, Missile Bomb 5,Launcher Operation 5, Rapid launch 4, Target Nav prediction 4, Warhead upgrades 4. Swing and a miss again, Cletus. Quote: 4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption. And thats exactly how I used them before. Except I was able to spam missiles at a safe distance, Now I have to be up in the front and I'll certainly be the first to die. So why was it messed with? Quote: i am tired so w/e. Indeed.
Shady Salesman	Posted - 2009.12.13 09:21:00 - [15] Quote: And thats exactly how I used them before. Except I was able to spam missiles at a safe distance, Now I have to be up in the front and I'll certainly be the first to die. So why was it messed with? There is no "safe" in eve, deal with it.
Napro Caldari The New Eden Syndicate IMPERIUM.	Posted - 2009.12.13 09:40:00 - [16] Originally by: Shady Salesman There is no "safe" in eve, deal with it. Sure, give it a tank, and I'll be happy to "deal" with it.
Furb Killer Gallente	Posted - 2009.12.13 09:59:00 - [17] Edited by: Furb Killer on 13/12/2009 09:58:58 Okay I bite. Did you ever consider firing the damage type at the opponent for which you get a huge bonus? If you want more range, fit rigs for more range (it uses dirt cheap small rigs after all). And if you fit them a bit for tank they arent that weak. Of course against a reasonable sized fleet they get insta popped. Against a ratter it can solo one if it does correct damage type. Yes I also thought they werent that dangerous. Untill i ignored a red hound in domi with basicly maxed skills for small drones including gallente BS V, i was tanked against EM+thermal for rats, but also had DC+eanm. So when he uncloaked i just sent my warriors against him and thought they would do the trick, well it didnt, i was going down way faster than he was. Considering for some reason my warp was completely bugged (It was tryiing to warp some stupid place, cancelling didnt work, and although he had disruptor on me it kept trying to allign some place to warp there), and i was in structure i wasnt a happy panda. In the end the stupid thing finally cancelled its warp and with neut i shut down his disruptor and warped out. Still he had most of his shields left while i was only left because i had a damage control fitted.
Shade Millith International House of PWNCakes	Posted - 2009.12.13 09:59:00 - [18] Originally by: Napro Quote: 3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets? Torps 4, Missile Bomb 5,Launcher Operation 5, Rapid launch 4, Target Nav prediction 4, Warhead upgrades 4. Swing and a miss again, Cletus. Sounds like you have the wrong damage type in. You might notice that the stealthbomber gets a 15% per level bonus to racial damage. Eg, kin for the manticore, EM for the purifier, Exposive for the Hound, and Therm for the Nemisis. You're putting the wrong torp type in. --------------------------------------------
AgentFruitfly	Posted - 2009.12.13 11:05:00 - [19] Originally by: Stu Pid Originally by: Myra2007 OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite: 1) Mantis? lol n1 2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak? 3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets? 4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption. Some people use it for ninja ratting and i've heard people even use it to do fw missions. I am sure there is a lot more (i.e. bombs) but i am tired so w/e. I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh. Uh... wasn't that change like a year ago or something?
Stu Pid	Posted - 2009.12.13 11:21:00 - [20] Originally by: AgentFruitfly Originally by: Stu Pid Originally by: Myra2007 OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite: 1) Mantis? lol n1 2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak? 3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets? 4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption. Some people use it for ninja ratting and i've heard people even use it to do fw missions. I am sure there is a lot more (i.e. bombs) but i am tired so w/e. I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh. Uh... wasn't that change like a year ago or something? And??? Then training cruise up to adv lvl4 was not a waste of time??

Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.12.13 11:24:00 - [21] Originally by: Napro Why were the Mantis cruise missiles replaced with torps? Now I got a ship that can only hit out at Max 60KM (an easily killable range)... has Drake-like DPS without the range.. (248dps@60KM vs 270DPS@84KM). What is the point of this ship? The only possible benefit I can see with this is removing a ship's shield with its large volley dmg... but that really only benefits the Purifier with its EM bonus. That also means you'd have to have something heavy flying BEHIND you to kill em off. Can someone explain how I'm supposed to use these torp bombers? How are you only getting 248 DPS? A bomber can easily exceed 500 DPS with torps now. The torp bomber's day-to-day role is DPS support for a recon gang. Oh yeah and bombs are Death to RR blobs. If properly and skillfully applied that is (eg: Goonwaffe). Bombers are now a textbook example of what a T2 ship is supposed to be: a ship with a well-defined, unique role within which it is extremely powerful. They're far and away superior to the old, largely useless cruise bomber.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.12.13 11:30:00 - [22] Originally by: Stu Pid Originally by: Myra2007 OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite: 1) Mantis? lol n1 2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak? 3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets? 4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption. Some people use it for ninja ratting and i've heard people even use it to do fw missions. I am sure there is a lot more (i.e. bombs) but i am tired so w/e. I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh. Boo hoo! One rank 4 skill in return for a VAST improvement of your ship's capability? That's like winning the lottery and then whining that you have to pay for your own gas when you drive over to pick up the prize. PS the bombers also got extra CPU and PG. The Manticore is a dream to fit now. You can even fit on a MWD quite easily now.
cho0li0 Gallente Universal Exports Cult of War	Posted - 2009.12.13 11:44:00 - [23] Op is fail... Stealth bombers are deadlies tiny bastards in EVE. They throw out 300-400 DPS each (with proper skills), small to hit and then they drop bombs on you. OP needs to learn how you double click your ship to moving state, and then you click around to switch the direction of the ship to lower the dps hitting you and the most important part that you can do that at 50 km easily, while you aren't under any scrams or points - warp off. You fly Falcon same way, when you get targeted, you get the **** out of there and warp back.
Baron Agamemnon Caldari Holy Grail Construction Aegis Militia	Posted - 2009.12.13 11:54:00 - [24] Originally by: Stu Pid Originally by: Drakan290 Originally by: Stu Pid I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh. To all people that were playing the game, they had sufficient time to train into these ships. Not only do they do lots more damage, bomb launcher prereqs have been significantly lowered, and they've been equipped with a covops cloak. If you waited multiple months to complain about torp changes, I have one saying for you. Adapt or Die. Seems you have no clue. Well I will explain it to you slowly... You stop training with your main so you can train a bomber alt and after you done with cruise up to adv lvl4 ccp decides to change this cruise to torps! So you just lost the training time from lvl1 cruise to adv lvl4 for nothing. Did I explain this slow enough ? Training cruise level 5 and spec to 4 is not that long a training time... Sucks to train for someting then having it changed, but thats how it is. Besides all the missile support skills (well except one) affects torps as well. All in all the bomber is now a better and more used ship. It can easily fite 3 siege launchers and a bomd launcher, and the cov ops cloak is sweet. Its still not really a solo ship (it can be if used right), but it can work wonders in the right gangs. --- "And thus, another of the world's dreamers died, taking his dreams with him. Just as John Lennon wanted world peace, Gerald Bull simply wanted a gun big enough to fire **** into space."
Duchess Starbuckington	Posted - 2009.12.13 12:14:00 - [25] Yes, I'm so, so sorry that the pile of trash that was the old stealth bombers had to be turned into an awesome and useful ship, don't cry, we'll get CCP to break them again just for you.
Deva Blackfire Viziam	Posted - 2009.12.13 12:41:00 - [26] Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington Yes, I'm so, so sorry that the pile of trash that was the old stealth bombers had to be turned into an awesome and useful ship, don't cry, we'll get CCP to break them again just for you. lol so true
Caleb Fury Amarr Did I just do that	Posted - 2009.12.13 15:06:00 - [27] Boo hoo! One rank 4 skill in return for a VAST improvement of your ship's capability? That's like winning the lottery and then whining that you have to pay for your own gas when you drive over to pick up the prize. That was funny. I lol'ed Bombers are wayyy more useful now.
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2009.12.13 17:46:00 - [28] Originally by: Caleb Fury Boo hoo! One rank 4 skill in return for a VAST improvement of your ship's capability? That's like winning the lottery and then whining that you have to pay for your own gas when you drive over to pick up the prize. That was funny. I lol'ed Bombers are wayyy more useful now. With the OTT bonusses to torp stats that SB's get now I'm pretty damn sure something could have been done for a cruise missile using SB. A fair number of us using SB's pre torps didnt seem to mind. We would have liked the option to have cruises for less damage but with a wider engagement range ( both range literally and the increasing the scope of its potential targets ).
Kahega Amielden Minmatar Undivided	Posted - 2009.12.13 19:03:00 - [29] Originally by: Napro Why were the Mantis cruise missiles replaced with torps? Now I got a ship that can only hit out at Max 60KM (an easily killable range)... has Drake-like DPS without the range.. (248dps@60KM vs 270DPS@84KM). What is the point of this ship? The only possible benefit I can see with this is removing a ship's shield with its large volley dmg... but that really only benefits the Purifier with its EM bonus. That also means you'd have to have something heavy flying BEHIND you to kill em off. Can someone explain how I'm supposed to use these torp bombers? Firstly...if you only get 240 DPS, you're doing it wrong. I can get 650 DPS at 60km. Also, with javelin torps and range rigs, you can hit out to 120km for vastly more damage than the old cruise SBs ever did. How to use them? Sit outside of target's range -> hit them with battleship-sized damage.
Max Hardcase Art of War Cult of War	Posted - 2009.12.13 20:00:00 - [30] ^^ I would have loved stealthbombers with a 15% dmg bonus to cruise missiles and 10% explosion velocity bonus.



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