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Napro
Caldari
The New Eden Syndicate
IMPERIUM.
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Posted - 2009.12.13 04:24:00 -
[1]
Why were the Mantis cruise missiles replaced with torps?
Now I got a ship that can only hit out at Max 60KM (an easily killable range)... has Drake-like DPS without the range.. (248dps@60KM vs 270DPS@84KM).
What is the point of this ship? The only possible benefit I can see with this is removing a ship's shield with its large volley dmg... but that really only benefits the Purifier with its EM bonus. That also means you'd have to have something heavy flying BEHIND you to kill em off.
Can someone explain how I'm supposed to use these torp bombers?
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BA Hauler
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Posted - 2009.12.13 04:33:00 -
[2]
They're best used in groups. They also lowered the cost of bombs and are much more useful now. |
Chajitsoyo
Gallente
Sanford Space Salvage
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Posted - 2009.12.13 04:34:00 -
[3]
Are you factoring in the bomb damage as well? Along with the changes to SB's, the price for bombs was dropped considerably. I'd assume due to the range you have on a bomb deployment, torps kick out alot more DPS, especially towards larger targets, while still being in the same weapon range.
The can also now fit a covops cloak. The changes made to SB's have definitely brought their popularity way up previous to apocrypha
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Everything in moderation, including moderation. |
Needle Juice
Wrecking Shots
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Posted - 2009.12.13 04:40:00 -
[4]
welcome to 2009...
look at the rest of the ship's abilities now. it is much improved in its current form.
fit torps and a !COV OPS CLOAK! now you have a scout that can do good damage to cruiser and up targets with a very small sig radius.
plus they are a lot more fun to fly now
__________________________________________________
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.13 05:20:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Drazin DawnTreader on 13/12/2009 05:23:01
I dont know about everyone else, but my Manticore cranks out 650 DPS @ 54km (rage torps) which is simply amazing coming from a frigate hull. I love the change to torpedoes and warping cloaked. Sure, I miss one shotting every frigate that came near me, especially baiting Interceptors to try and tackle me... but now I can lay the smack down on much bigger ships and live to tell the tale.
@OP: You need to rework your bomber setup cuz your DPS is not even close to what the ships are capable of these days. Once you do, I think you will like the sacrifice in range for the sheer damage and destruction you can dish out now.
*edit* You can always use Javelins for 90+km range and still do 450ish DPS, But you have to be within 30km to use the bombs, so the rage torps are just fine with me.
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Myra2007
Perkone
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Posted - 2009.12.13 05:55:00 -
[6]
OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite:
1) Mantis? lol n1
2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak?
3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets?
4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption.
Some people use it for ninja ratting and i've heard people even use it to do fw missions.
I am sure there is a lot more (i.e. bombs) but i am tired so w/e.
--
 Originally by: Professor Slocombe
I will only buy tickets if the prize is your stuff and you leave Eve. Forever. You irritating self obsessed cretin.
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Stu Pid
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Posted - 2009.12.13 06:59:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Myra2007
OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite:
1) Mantis? lol n1
2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak?
3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets?
4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption.
Some people use it for ninja ratting and i've heard people even use it to do fw missions.
I am sure there is a lot more (i.e. bombs) but i am tired so w/e.
I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh.
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Drakan290
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Posted - 2009.12.13 07:25:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Stu Pid
Originally by: Myra2007
OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite:
1) Mantis? lol n1
2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak?
3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets?
4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption.
Some people use it for ninja ratting and i've heard people even use it to do fw missions.
I am sure there is a lot more (i.e. bombs) but i am tired so w/e.
I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh.
To all people that were playing the game, they had sufficient time to train into these ships.
Not only do they do lots more damage, bomb launcher prereqs have been significantly lowered, and they've been equipped with a covops cloak.
If you waited multiple months to complain about torp changes, I have one saying for you.
Adapt or Die.
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Chajitsoyo
Gallente
Sanford Space Salvage
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Posted - 2009.12.13 07:27:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Stu Pid
Originally by: Myra2007
OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite:
1) Mantis? lol n1
2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak?
3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets?
4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption.
Some people use it for ninja ratting and i've heard people even use it to do fw missions.
I am sure there is a lot more (i.e. bombs) but i am tired so w/e.
I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh.
you may be glad to know they've lowered the pre-req's to train torp launchers and bomb launchers. now you only need missle launcher operation IV and missle bombardment IV as opposed to lvl 5 in each, so it shouldn't take you long at all to retrain.
---------------------------------
Everything in moderation, including moderation. |
Stu Pid
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Posted - 2009.12.13 08:09:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Drakan290
Originally by: Stu Pid
I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh.
To all people that were playing the game, they had sufficient time to train into these ships.
Not only do they do lots more damage, bomb launcher prereqs have been significantly lowered, and they've been equipped with a covops cloak.
If you waited multiple months to complain about torp changes, I have one saying for you.
Adapt or Die.
Seems you have no clue.
Well I will explain it to you slowly...
You stop training with your main so you can train a bomber alt and after you done with cruise up to adv lvl4 ccp decides to change this cruise to torps!
So you just lost the training time from lvl1 cruise to adv lvl4 for nothing.
Did I explain this slow enough ?
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Shady Salesman
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Posted - 2009.12.13 08:49:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Stu Pid
Originally by: Drakan290
Originally by: Stu Pid
I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh.
To all people that were playing the game, they had sufficient time to train into these ships.
Not only do they do lots more damage, bomb launcher prereqs have been significantly lowered, and they've been equipped with a covops cloak.
If you waited multiple months to complain about torp changes, I have one saying for you.
Adapt or Die.
Seems you have no clue.
Well I will explain it to you slowly...
You stop training with your main so you can train a bomber alt and after you done with cruise up to adv lvl4 ccp decides to change this cruise to torps!
So you just lost the training time from lvl1 cruise to adv lvl4 for nothing.
Did I explain this slow enough ?
This is why "The Power of Two" is a really good deal...
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Napro
Caldari
The New Eden Syndicate
IMPERIUM.
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Posted - 2009.12.13 09:03:00 -
[12]
Edited by: Napro on 13/12/2009 09:03:44
You trolls can't even figure out what to troll about..
You got some trolls arguing about the the lowered pre-reqs for torps...
And you got other trolls arguing about using Tech 2 Torps...
Can you trolls decide what you're arguing for/against , plz?
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Stu Pid
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Posted - 2009.12.13 09:05:00 -
[13]
Originally by: Shady Salesman
Originally by: Stu Pid
Originally by: Drakan290
Originally by: Stu Pid
I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh.
To all people that were playing the game, they had sufficient time to train into these ships.
Not only do they do lots more damage, bomb launcher prereqs have been significantly lowered, and they've been equipped with a covops cloak.
If you waited multiple months to complain about torp changes, I have one saying for you.
Adapt or Die.
Seems you have no clue.
Well I will explain it to you slowly...
You stop training with your main so you can train a bomber alt and after you done with cruise up to adv lvl4 ccp decides to change this cruise to torps!
So you just lost the training time from lvl1 cruise to adv lvl4 for nothing.
Did I explain this slow enough ?
This is why "The Power of Two" is a really good deal...
Yes I got power of two and so got two mains and 4 alts but this does not take a way the fact that I wasted skill time which I could use for many other things on my toons.
I got this bomber alt as he is just for that and so when I lose him its cheap clone and not my 75+ mill sp clones full of hardwires and implants and yes got also jc's which are full for all different tasks to max out on the mains.
Its just training some skill up to adv lvl4 for nothing, wonder if you do this?
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Napro
Caldari
The New Eden Syndicate
IMPERIUM.
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Posted - 2009.12.13 09:17:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Myra2007
OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite:
1) Mantis? lol n1
Quote:
2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak?
A hyuk hyuk, and the ability to be one shotted by anything? Or do you plan on sitting there and dueling it out with a cruiser, Cletus?
Quote:
3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets?
Torps 4, Missile Bomb 5,Launcher Operation 5, Rapid launch 4, Target Nav prediction 4, Warhead upgrades 4.
Swing and a miss again, Cletus.
Quote:
4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption.
And thats exactly how I used them before. Except I was able to spam missiles at a safe distance, Now I have to be up in the front and I'll certainly be the first to die. So why was it messed with?
Quote:
i am tired so w/e.
Indeed. |
Shady Salesman
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Posted - 2009.12.13 09:21:00 -
[15]
Quote:
And thats exactly how I used them before. Except I was able to spam missiles at a safe distance, Now I have to be up in the front and I'll certainly be the first to die. So why was it messed with?
There is no "safe" in eve, deal with it. |
Napro
Caldari
The New Eden Syndicate
IMPERIUM.
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Posted - 2009.12.13 09:40:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Shady Salesman
There is no "safe" in eve, deal with it.
Sure, give it a tank, and I'll be happy to "deal" with it.
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Furb Killer
Gallente
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Posted - 2009.12.13 09:59:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Furb Killer on 13/12/2009 09:58:58
Okay I bite. Did you ever consider firing the damage type at the opponent for which you get a huge bonus? If you want more range, fit rigs for more range (it uses dirt cheap small rigs after all). And if you fit them a bit for tank they arent that weak. Of course against a reasonable sized fleet they get insta popped. Against a ratter it can solo one if it does correct damage type.
Yes I also thought they werent that dangerous. Untill i ignored a red hound in domi with basicly maxed skills for small drones including gallente BS V, i was tanked against EM+thermal for rats, but also had DC+eanm. So when he uncloaked i just sent my warriors against him and thought they would do the trick, well it didnt, i was going down way faster than he was. Considering for some reason my warp was completely bugged (It was tryiing to warp some stupid place, cancelling didnt work, and although he had disruptor on me it kept trying to allign some place to warp there), and i was in structure i wasnt a happy panda. In the end the stupid thing finally cancelled its warp and with neut i shut down his disruptor and warped out. Still he had most of his shields left while i was only left because i had a damage control fitted.
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Shade Millith
International House of PWNCakes
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Posted - 2009.12.13 09:59:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Napro
Quote:
3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets?
Torps 4, Missile Bomb 5,Launcher Operation 5, Rapid launch 4, Target Nav prediction 4, Warhead upgrades 4.
Swing and a miss again, Cletus.
Sounds like you have the wrong damage type in.
You might notice that the stealthbomber gets a 15% per level bonus to racial damage. Eg, kin for the manticore, EM for the purifier, Exposive for the Hound, and Therm for the Nemisis.
You're putting the wrong torp type in.
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AgentFruitfly
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Posted - 2009.12.13 11:05:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Stu Pid
Originally by: Myra2007
OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite:
1) Mantis? lol n1
2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak?
3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets?
4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption.
Some people use it for ninja ratting and i've heard people even use it to do fw missions.
I am sure there is a lot more (i.e. bombs) but i am tired so w/e.
I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh.
Uh... wasn't that change like a year ago or something?
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Stu Pid
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Posted - 2009.12.13 11:21:00 -
[20]
Originally by: AgentFruitfly
Originally by: Stu Pid
Originally by: Myra2007
OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite:
1) Mantis? lol n1
2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak?
3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets?
4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption.
Some people use it for ninja ratting and i've heard people even use it to do fw missions.
I am sure there is a lot more (i.e. bombs) but i am tired so w/e.
I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh.
Uh... wasn't that change like a year ago or something?
And???
Then training cruise up to adv lvl4 was not a waste of time??
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.13 11:24:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Napro
Why were the Mantis cruise missiles replaced with torps?
Now I got a ship that can only hit out at Max 60KM (an easily killable range)... has Drake-like DPS without the range.. (248dps@60KM vs 270DPS@84KM).
What is the point of this ship? The only possible benefit I can see with this is removing a ship's shield with its large volley dmg... but that really only benefits the Purifier with its EM bonus. That also means you'd have to have something heavy flying BEHIND you to kill em off.
Can someone explain how I'm supposed to use these torp bombers?
How are you only getting 248 DPS? A bomber can easily exceed 500 DPS with torps now. The torp bomber's day-to-day role is DPS support for a recon gang.
Oh yeah and bombs are Death to RR blobs. If properly and skillfully applied that is (eg: Goonwaffe).
Bombers are now a textbook example of what a T2 ship is supposed to be: a ship with a well-defined, unique role within which it is extremely powerful. They're far and away superior to the old, largely useless cruise bomber.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.13 11:30:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Stu Pid
Originally by: Myra2007
OP is comedy gold. But i'll bite:
1) Mantis? lol n1
2) Only Drake-like dps? You mean like only battlecruiser damage on a frigate hull with cov ops cloak?
3) 248dps? Whith all level 3 skills? Or is this a stealth whine about damage reduction for small and moving targets?
4) You can use them in many different ways. One would be in conjuction with recon ships and black ops. You can bridge quite a few bombers to aid friends who are in need of some significant dps. These are also excellent tools for harassment and disruption.
Some people use it for ninja ratting and i've heard people even use it to do fw missions.
I am sure there is a lot more (i.e. bombs) but i am tired so w/e.
I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh.
Boo hoo! One rank 4 skill in return for a VAST improvement of your ship's capability? That's like winning the lottery and then whining that you have to pay for your own gas when you drive over to pick up the prize.
PS the bombers also got extra CPU and PG. The Manticore is a dream to fit now. You can even fit on a MWD quite easily now.
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cho0li0
Gallente
Universal Exports
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.12.13 11:44:00 -
[23]
Op is fail...
Stealth bombers are deadlies tiny bastards in EVE. They throw out 300-400 DPS each (with proper skills), small to hit and then they drop bombs on you. OP needs to learn how you double click your ship to moving state, and then you click around to switch the direction of the ship to lower the dps hitting you and the most important part that you can do that at 50 km easily, while you aren't under any scrams or points - warp off. You fly Falcon same way, when you get targeted, you get the **** out of there and warp back.
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Baron Agamemnon
Caldari
Holy Grail Construction
Aegis Militia
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Posted - 2009.12.13 11:54:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Stu Pid
Originally by: Drakan290
Originally by: Stu Pid
I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh.
To all people that were playing the game, they had sufficient time to train into these ships.
Not only do they do lots more damage, bomb launcher prereqs have been significantly lowered, and they've been equipped with a covops cloak.
If you waited multiple months to complain about torp changes, I have one saying for you.
Adapt or Die.
Seems you have no clue.
Well I will explain it to you slowly...
You stop training with your main so you can train a bomber alt and after you done with cruise up to adv lvl4 ccp decides to change this cruise to torps!
So you just lost the training time from lvl1 cruise to adv lvl4 for nothing.
Did I explain this slow enough ?
Training cruise level 5 and spec to 4 is not that long a training time... Sucks to train for someting then having it changed, but thats how it is.
Besides all the missile support skills (well except one) affects torps as well.
All in all the bomber is now a better and more used ship. It can easily fite 3 siege launchers and a bomd launcher, and the cov ops cloak is sweet. Its still not really a solo ship (it can be if used right), but it can work wonders in the right gangs.
---
"And thus, another of the world's dreamers died, taking his dreams with him. Just as John Lennon wanted world peace, Gerald Bull simply wanted a gun big enough to fire **** into space." |
Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2009.12.13 12:14:00 -
[25]
Yes, I'm so, so sorry that the pile of trash that was the old stealth bombers had to be turned into an awesome and useful ship, don't cry, we'll get CCP to break them again just for you. 
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Deva Blackfire
Viziam
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Posted - 2009.12.13 12:41:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Yes, I'm so, so sorry that the pile of trash that was the old stealth bombers had to be turned into an awesome and useful ship, don't cry, we'll get CCP to break them again just for you.
lol so true
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Caleb Fury
Amarr
Did I just do that
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Posted - 2009.12.13 15:06:00 -
[27]
Boo hoo! One rank 4 skill in return for a VAST improvement of your ship's capability? That's like winning the lottery and then whining that you have to pay for your own gas when you drive over to pick up the prize.
That was funny. I lol'ed Bombers are wayyy more useful now.
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Max Hardcase
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.12.13 17:46:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Caleb Fury
Boo hoo! One rank 4 skill in return for a VAST improvement of your ship's capability? That's like winning the lottery and then whining that you have to pay for your own gas when you drive over to pick up the prize.
That was funny. I lol'ed Bombers are wayyy more useful now.
With the OTT bonusses to torp stats that SB's get now I'm pretty damn sure something could have been done for a cruise missile using SB.
A fair number of us using SB's pre torps didnt seem to mind.
We would have liked the option to have cruises for less damage but with a wider engagement range ( both range literally and the increasing the scope of its potential targets ).
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Undivided
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Posted - 2009.12.13 19:03:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Napro
Why were the Mantis cruise missiles replaced with torps?
Now I got a ship that can only hit out at Max 60KM (an easily killable range)... has Drake-like DPS without the range.. (248dps@60KM vs 270DPS@84KM).
What is the point of this ship? The only possible benefit I can see with this is removing a ship's shield with its large volley dmg... but that really only benefits the Purifier with its EM bonus. That also means you'd have to have something heavy flying BEHIND you to kill em off.
Can someone explain how I'm supposed to use these torp bombers?
Firstly...if you only get 240 DPS, you're doing it wrong. I can get 650 DPS at 60km. Also, with javelin torps and range rigs, you can hit out to 120km for vastly more damage than the old cruise SBs ever did.
How to use them? Sit outside of target's range -> hit them with battleship-sized damage.
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Max Hardcase
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.12.13 20:00:00 -
[30]
^^
I would have loved stealthbombers with a 15% dmg bonus to cruise missiles and 10% explosion velocity bonus.
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Mire Stoude
The Undesirables
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Posted - 2009.12.13 20:21:00 -
[31]
Edited by: Mire Stoude on 13/12/2009 20:21:08
Are you saying you only get 248 dps with your stealth bomber (with torps)? If so, you're doing something horribly wrong. You can easily get 500 dps at 50km+ range.
EDIT: Page 2 Snipa
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Nadezhda Andropov
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Posted - 2009.12.13 21:10:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Mire Stoude
EDIT: Page 2 Snipa
You don't edit snipes in, fool
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arbiter reborn
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Posted - 2009.12.13 21:12:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Stu Pid
Originally by: Drakan290
Originally by: Stu Pid
I had one of my toons specialy trained up for the cruise bombers and I have t re-train him now for this change, cant say I am happy with it tbh.
To all people that were playing the game, they had sufficient time to train into these ships.
Not only do they do lots more damage, bomb launcher prereqs have been significantly lowered, and they've been equipped with a covops cloak.
If you waited multiple months to complain about torp changes, I have one saying for you.
Adapt or Die.
Seems you have no clue.
Well I will explain it to you slowly...
You stop training with your main so you can train a bomber alt and after you done with cruise up to adv lvl4 ccp decides to change this cruise to torps!
So you just lost the training time from lvl1 cruise to adv lvl4 for nothing.
Did I explain this slow enough ?
your doing it wrong, let this thread die you fail
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Napro
Caldari
The New Eden Syndicate
IMPERIUM.
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Posted - 2009.12.14 01:13:00 -
[34]
Originally by: arbiter reborn
your doing it wrong, let this thread die you fail
You can't be this dumb.
Quit... posting...now...
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Woad Kill
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Posted - 2009.12.14 01:29:00 -
[35]
I love SB's (Have an ALT SB Pilot)
SB's are King Hitters (i.e We sneak up on an unsuspecting target and then crack them behind the ear with a baseball bat)
We prefer to work in small gangs, rather than lone wolf it.
We DON'T DPS, we Volley, at one target and then get the hell out of Dodge!!
We SELECT our targets, (prefer solo pilots). We just don't roll in and kick butt, we plan, prepare, then pull your jumper up over your head and beat the snot out of you while your helpless. Any fight that goes longer than 20 seconds and we have lost all advantage and our best course is to get the hell out there.
We are sneaks, we are not designed for anything else. You want to tank fight, then a SB is not for you. Shields are a waste of time, so are hardners (they just get in the way of the important stuff anyway!!) With that in mind, we won't (unless we have that many in the gang that it maybe, it is possible) to pick a target larger than a BC, and then only with utmost planning and caution. It's not to say were are cowards (we are, because we are not built / designed to do anything else!!) , but who cares what you think when a kill mail is posted.
Range is our friend, Torps will still give you the range.( When you have the skills, the torps will have in excss of 59 KM) Just remember the 6 "P's" rule (Prior Preperation Prevents Pi$$ Poor Performance!!).
Sensor Damps are our friends. Using scripts, range and multple damps (within the gang) you should be well out of targetting range of most of your potential victims.
Use your Faction Torps (as already has been said) with that particalr faction SB, using anything else and your wasting time and oxygen.
With Torps, You must use Painters, Your Wasting your Torps, your Time, and possibly your ship and Pod if you don't!!
Stationary targets are our best friend. You want to avoid the gank, keep moving. Stationary Targets do not react well to 1400's and Torpedos (thankyou "Clear Skies")
Signed
An Avergae "Care Bear" in a "Drop Bear" Enviroment
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Napro
Caldari
The New Eden Syndicate
IMPERIUM.
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Posted - 2009.12.14 02:00:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Woad Kill
I love SB's (Have an ALT SB Pilot)
SB's are King Hitters (i.e We sneak up on an unsuspecting target and then crack them behind the ear with a baseball bat)
We prefer to work in small gangs, rather than lone wolf it.
We DON'T DPS, we Volley, at one target and then get the hell out of Dodge!!
We SELECT our targets, (prefer solo pilots). We just don't roll in and kick butt, we plan, prepare, then pull your jumper up over your head and beat the snot out of you while your helpless. Any fight that goes longer than 20 seconds and we have lost all advantage and our best course is to get the hell out there.
We are sneaks, we are not designed for anything else. You want to tank fight, then a SB is not for you. Shields are a waste of time, so are hardners (they just get in the way of the important stuff anyway!!) With that in mind, we won't (unless we have that many in the gang that it maybe, it is possible) to pick a target larger than a BC, and then only with utmost planning and caution. It's not to say were are cowards (we are, because we are not built / designed to do anything else!!) , but who cares what you think when a kill mail is posted.
Range is our friend, Torps will still give you the range.( When you have the skills, the torps will have in excss of 59 KM) Just remember the 6 "P's" rule (Prior Preperation Prevents Pi$$ Poor Performance!!).
Sensor Damps are our friends. Using scripts, range and multple damps (within the gang) you should be well out of targetting range of most of your potential victims.
Use your Faction Torps (as already has been said) with that particalr faction SB, using anything else and your wasting time and oxygen.
With Torps, You must use Painters, Your Wasting your Torps, your Time, and possibly your ship and Pod if you don't!!
Stationary targets are our best friend. You want to avoid the gank, keep moving. Stationary Targets do not react well to 1400's and Torpedos (thankyou "Clear Skies")
Signed
An Avergae "Care Bear" in a "Drop Bear" Enviroment
Thank you. Exactly what I was looking for. I've started training Torps V, so should be fun after.
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Woad Kill
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Posted - 2009.12.14 04:04:00 -
[37]
An SB Pilot not only needs Torps V, he / she needs to be well rounded to be of any use let alone survive (At least with my fit) You will need minimun of Level 4 / 5 in all these skills
That means you need Electronics
Cloaking
Electronic Warfare
Electronics
Electronics Upgrades
Frequency Modulation
Long Range Targeting
Sensor Linking
Signal Suppression
Signature Analysis
Target Painting
Targeting
Engineering
Energy Grid Upgrades
Energy Management
Energy Systems Operation
Engineering
Gunnery
Gunnery
Weapon Upgrades
Mechanic
Hull Upgrades
Jury Rigging
Launcher Rigging
Mechanic
Missile Launcher Operation
Heavy Missiles
Missile Bombardment
Missile Launcher Operation
Missile Projection
Rapid Launch not really a requirement
Standard Missiles
Target Navigation Prediction
Torpedoes
Torpedoe Specialization
Warhead Upgrades
Navigation
Acceleration Control
Afterburner
Evasive Maneuvering
Fuel Conservation
High Speed Maneuvering
Navigation
Warp Drive Operation
Spaceship Command
Covert Ops
Frigate
Spaceship Command
The fit is a cheap build (well sort off, it relies on being part of a gang) As I have said before, YOU HAVE TO USE THE FACTION TORPS FOR THAT PARTICULAR FACION SB. Failure to do so will result in a sustanial loss of damage inflicted.
This build will result in a SB which (when all the skills have been trained to max) result in 5150 Volley damage, Why these bits you ask? Because they fit and are resonably inexpensive. You could get even more damage from a Volley by using Faction Gear, by all means do so, but it goes against the grain of PvP when it comes to bang for bucks.
[Hound, Basic PvP Shoot & Scoot Present Fit]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Signal Amplifier (what ever fits at the end)
(Damage Mods on your end damage plus quicker targeting, Quicker he/she is locked up, the quicker your torps are on their way)
1MN MicroWarpdrive II
Target Painter II
Remote Sensor Dampener II, Targeting Range Dampening
(To run away with, your a coward, stand up fights don't appeal to you, very hard to stand up when your using a paper bag as armour. Have to get the best from your torps, this does it, end story. If you can lock them up and he/she can't lock you up, you have the advantage, and SB's are all about getting as much advantage as you can)
'Malkuth' Siege Missile Launcher I, Dread Guristas Bane Torpedo
'Malkuth' Siege Missile Launcher I, Dread Guristas Bane Torpedo
'Malkuth' Siege Missile Launcher I, Dread Guristas Bane Torpedo
Why Malkuth?? Because they have the least power/cpu requirements, they are cheap, and it's volley damage, not DPS that counts, who cares how fast it fires, it's not going to be a factor as your not standing there slugging it out. The Volley damage on a Malkuth is the same as for an Arbalest (if you can get them to fit, which you won't) Missile Launchers don't have damage mods, just rate of fire. The damage Mods come from the extras you fit and the ammo you use, use the best ammo you can, it pays for it self in the end.
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
(To Hide of course!! Your Stealthy, Act like it!!)
[empty high slot]
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst II
Small Hydraulic Bay Thrusters I
The cost of rigss now far out weight the once prohibitive cost of them. With the advent of differing size rigs, the cost of smalls, it is no longer a sesible idea to leave them off, especially with the resulting benefits they produce.
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.14 04:27:00 -
[38]
Woad-
Did you mean to put a T2 Calefaction rig on there? What is the going price of those these days?
I fly a Manticore using T2 launchers and get 5255 volley damage, plus I can still fit a bomb launcher with a +3% CPU implant.
If I used a T2 Calefaction I would get 5494 volley.
I also use dual painters and a Coreli Ctype MWD cuz they are only like 8-10m these days.
The more costly module is the domination BCU's for the reduced CPU needs, but those aren't terribly expensive either.
I prefer the T2 launchers because rage does more damage and its only 6km difference in range.
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Woad Kill
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Posted - 2009.12.14 04:53:00 -
[39]
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader
Woad-
Did you mean to put a T2 Calefaction rig on there? What is the going price of those these days?
I fly a Manticore using T2 launchers and get 5255 volley damage, plus I can still fit a bomb launcher with a +3% CPU implant.
If I used a T2 Calefaction I would get 5494 volley.
I also use dual painters and a Coreli Ctype MWD cuz they are only like 8-10m these days.
The more costly module is the domination BCU's for the reduced CPU needs, but those aren't terribly expensive either.
I prefer the T2 launchers because rage does more damage and its only 6km difference in range.
Cost is what your prepared to spend, I get my rigs of a an ALT's corpie, just provide the mats. Since most of my time is spent missioning, mats come quick and cheap. I then just forward the rigs on to the SB pilot. I normally throw the corpie some extra mats / isk his way to make up for his time and effort. SB Pilots are all about teamwork, which is why it appeals to me.....It gives your potetional target someone else to shoot at!!
As for the T2 Launchers, is possible to use I guess, It will fit, but only if you drop the Sensor Amp and slot in a CPU upgrade, and have an implant inside your scone, I was after a fit that didn't require the use of implants. And the sensor amp I have found to be useful on a number of occasions. Each to their own, we're all individuals and all have our own seperate ideas, just thought I would share mine.
If I wanted to go all out I would of posted my 6K Romper Stomper fit which has 3 x BC's (faction) a 'Smokescreen' Covert Ops Cloaking Device II, faction MWD with T2 launchers and then listed all the damage mod Implants required. But the build I think although great, is not pratical in all out PvP warfare.
An Avergae "Care Bear" in a "Drop Bear" Enviroment
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Undivided
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Posted - 2009.12.14 05:02:00 -
[40]
...Did someone just say that SBs weren't for DPS? What the hell?
The whole point of the SB is that you do battlecruiser-sized DPS (if you're doing less than 500 you're doing it wrong, and that's with javelin torps) with a cloaky frigate platform.
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.14 05:08:00 -
[41]
Just checked Jita, the calefaction II's are only 19m. Not bad at all.
so the 40m domi BCU's are the big isk drop on my Manticore.
good stuff.
unfortunetly my setup is not for the inexperienced... requires max skills to pull off. But hey... thats why we train right?
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Woad Kill
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Posted - 2009.12.14 06:49:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
...Did someone just say that SBs weren't for DPS? What the hell?
The whole point of the SB is that you do battlecruiser-sized DPS (if you're doing less than 500 you're doing it wrong, and that's with javelin torps) with a cloaky frigate platform.
Your confusing me, you have gone on about DPS damage but then advocate Javelin Torps. By which that means you have had to drop fittings to improve your targetting range and use a head full of implants to make them worth while, and with that, you must have had to dump Damage Mods. Javelins have a range of 104+ KM but the Hound has a targetting range of just over 68 KM. Myself, would prefer the Rage Torps for the loss of 7 KM range (as opposed to 69.5 KM now only 62 KM) and have the extra near 200 DPS (1630+ Volley Damage) The damps will reduce my opponents radar range by 34% with scripts (hence a gang of SB's all basicly running the same set up, for each Damp on target reduces the range by 34%, the target ship will be lucky to lock) I don't have to be at extreme range to avoid incoming as there shouldn't be any incoming anyway.
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.14 07:21:00 -
[43]
To be fair, not everyone flies the Hound :)
The manticore gets 87km range, more with a leadership booster.
Also, while I do not deny your gang setups work well and are a force to be reckoned with, I do want to clarify the dampener situation for people who may not be aware.
Now, unless something has changed recently, Dampeners are stacking nerfed.
So, if you have 2 Dampeners on target, the 2nd dampener is operating at 86% efficiency as well as only reducing the new range by its given percentage. So, if a Ship has 100km range and is hit by 2 34% dampeners, then: Damp 1 = 34 and Damp 2 = 29%
100km * 34% = 66km
66km * 29% = 47km
I dont really have a point here, just want to make sure you dont think range is getting cut more than it actually is.
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Deb Dukar
Minmatar
|
Posted - 2009.12.14 09:43:00 -
[44]
Edited by: Deb Dukar on 14/12/2009 09:43:39
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader
Now, unless something has changed recently, Dampeners are stacking nerfed.
stacking nerfed for 1 ship i believe. ur math should be right if u fit multiple dampeners on ur bomber.
but im quite sure it doesnt affect multiple ships damepening 1 target
-------------------------
horray for typos |
Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Undivided
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Posted - 2009.12.14 15:22:00 -
[45]
Quote:
Your confusing me, you have gone on about DPS damage but then advocate Javelin Torps. By which that means you have had to drop fittings to improve your targetting range and use a head full of implants to make them worth while, and with that, you must have had to dump Damage Mods. Javelins have a range of 104+ KM but the Hound has a targetting range of just over 68 KM. Myself, would prefer the Rage Torps for the loss of 7 KM range (as opposed to 69.5 KM now only 62 KM) and have the extra near 200 DPS (1630+ Volley Damage) The damps will reduce my opponents radar range by 34% with scripts (hence a gang of SB's all basicly running the same set up, for each Damp on target reduces the range by 34%, the target ship will be lucky to lock) I don't have to be at extreme range to avoid incoming as there shouldn't be any incoming anyway.
Javelin torps are an option. Of course I don't -always- use javelins. My point is that the role of SBs is DPS, and range is your tank. The choice between javelin and faction torps is one basically "do I want more tank, or more DPS?".
And I don't need to sacrifice anything that you listed...mostly because I use TPs instead of RSDs. My personal fit hits out to 86km with javelins (limited by locking range; javelins technically would hit out to 91km on my fit).
Rage torps are a TERRIBLE idea against anything other than POS or capitals. A stationary Raven takes 361 DPS from a SB with rage torps, 2x BCUs and 2x TPs, compared to 553 from faction torps. If you drop the TPS, it only takes around 200 DPS.
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Max Hardcase
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2009.12.14 18:18:00 -
[46]
Originally by: Deb Dukar
Edited by: Deb Dukar on 14/12/2009 09:43:39
Originally by: Drazin DawnTreader
Now, unless something has changed recently, Dampeners are stacking nerfed.
stacking nerfed for 1 ship i believe. ur math should be right if u fit multiple dampeners on ur bomber.
but im quite sure it doesnt affect multiple ships damepening 1 target
Stacking nerfed on the ship thats the target of the SD's.
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Jin Nib
Resplendent Knives
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Posted - 2009.12.14 18:52:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Napro
Edited by: Napro on 13/12/2009 09:03:44
You trolls can't even figure out what to troll about..
You got some trolls arguing about the the lowered pre-reqs for torps...
And you got other trolls arguing about using Tech 2 Torps...
Can you trolls decide what you're arguing for/against , plz?
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
-Jin Nib
Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since:
2009.03.02 03:53:00
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.14 21:29:00 -
[48]
Originally by: Kahega Amielden
Rage torps are a TERRIBLE idea against anything other than POS or capitals. A stationary Raven takes 361 DPS from a SB with rage torps, 2x BCUs and 2x TPs, compared to 553 from faction torps. If you drop the TPS, it only takes around 200 DPS.
Thanks for that little info, I was not aware that the rage penalties were this severe.
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Kahega Amielden
Minmatar
Undivided
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Posted - 2009.12.14 21:39:00 -
[49]
Rage/fury missiles in general are meant for targets larger than you. You don't use rage/fury against the same-sized target for the same reason you don't use hail s in a frig fight.
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Aralieus
Amarr
Traumark Logistics
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Posted - 2009.12.15 03:05:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Napro
Originally by: Shady Salesman
There is no "safe" in eve, deal with it.
Sure, give it a tank, and I'll be happy to "deal" with it.
\/ erm...will there be slaves involved?
Fortune favors the bold!!! |
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Napro
Caldari
The New Eden Syndicate
IMPERIUM.
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Posted - 2009.12.15 06:36:00 -
[51]
Originally by: Jin Nib
Originally by: Napro
Edited by: Napro on 13/12/2009 09:03:44
You trolls can't even figure out what to troll about..
You got some trolls arguing about the the lowered pre-reqs for torps...
And you got other trolls arguing about using Tech 2 Torps...
Can you trolls decide what you're arguing for/against , plz?
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
You need to train your Reading Comprehension skill, it's failing
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Drahomi'r Bozi'dar
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Posted - 2009.12.16 16:28:00 -
[52]
Even after the torp change and able to use tech 2 siege, i still miss the cruise.
Still hoping CCP one day gives us the option to pop on cruise launchers or siege.
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Kassa Daito
Capital Construction Research
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Posted - 2009.12.16 17:41:00 -
[53]
Edited by: Kassa Daito on 16/12/2009 17:45:09
Originally by: Jin Nib
Originally by: Napro
Edited by: Napro on 13/12/2009 09:03:44
You trolls can't even figure out what to troll about..
You got some trolls arguing about the the lowered pre-reqs for torps...
And you got other trolls arguing about using Tech 2 Torps...
Can you trolls decide what you're arguing for/against , plz?
I do not think that word means what you think it means.
Of course everyone here knows what a troll is.
Troll - n. - a person on an internet forum who disagrees with you.
Edit: The two of us, as well as the OP, are trolling since a discussion about trolling is quite obviously off-topic an totally unrelated to why SBs can't or shouldn't be able to fit cruise launchers.
**
Disclaimer: Author sometimes spell checks but is not responsible for sins of commission, omission, emission, transmission, or submission. Flowers, bricks, or any other form of feedback appreciated |
Ranger 1
Amarr
Dynaverse Corporation
Vertigo Coalition
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Posted - 2009.12.16 20:06:00 -
[54]
I still advocate that if a cruise missile frigate ever surfaces again that it be a specialized pirate faction design.
Of course if that happened I'd rather see it be designed around speed rather than cloak.
=====
If you go to Za'Ha'Dum I will gank you. |
Guillame Herschel
Gallente
NME1
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Posted - 2009.12.16 20:34:00 -
[55]
Originally by: Malcanis
Boo hoo! One rank 4 skill in return for a VAST improvement of your ship's capability?
Learning the Cruise Missile skillbook requires Missile Op V. Torpedoes have never required Missile Op V. So it was two skills wasted, especially for SB-spec'd alts that do not have any BS skills. If they had made this change to a BS hull, no problem. Other BS the toon can fly can fit a cruise missile launcher. But there are no other ships a SB-spec'd pilot can use his now wasted cruise missile skills on, without investing more SP into Spaceship Command. And we haven't even gotten into the different levels of skills needed to be proficient at SB versus a BS, like tanking skills, drones, etc.
Quote:
That's like winning the lottery and then whining that you have to pay for your own gas when you drive over to pick up the prize.
Dumbest internet analogy evah.
-- He said "The President is near."
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Napro
Caldari
The New Eden Syndicate
IMPERIUM.
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Posted - 2009.12.17 19:26:00 -
[56]
Originally by: Kassa Daito
Of course everyone here knows what a troll is.
Troll - n. - a person on an internet forum who disagrees with you.
Edit: The two of us, as well as the OP, are actually trolling since a discussion about trolling is quite obviously off-topic an totally unrelated to why SBs can't or shouldn't be able to fit cruise launchers.
Back on-topic, the new SBs are pretty well balanced with torps only. Giving them the ability to launch a set of missiles and then warp out without ever getting within a reasonable engagement range for anything smaller than a BS (that will take 20 seconds to lock them) would be incredibly broken. As it is, the only thing a small group of SBs reasonably has to worry about killing them is a trap or sensor-boosted sniper HAC. Nothing else can even get the first volley off unelss the SBs really mess up or get greedy.
There is a big diffference between an uncloaked frig with long BS range and a covops cloaked ship with long BS range.
TLDR
OK i just found out that T2 Rage torps have EXP RADIUS of 650m compared to 450 for standard. No problem , I thought to myself as I gazed at the attributes page, surely the Stealth Bombers have an Explosion radius bonus like they did when they used Cruise missiles.
Unbeknownst to me, however, they DO NOT!
Quote:
Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to torpedo explosion velocity and flight time per level
20% bonus to torpedo missile velocity per level
Covert Ops Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to bomb kinetic damage per level
15% bonus to torpedo kinetic damage per level
Role Bonus:
-99.65% reduction in Siege Missile Launcher powergrid needs
-99.5% reduction in Cloak CPU Use
-100% targeting delay after decloaking
How the F*CK are u supposed to shoot anything below a BattleShip with this? Even a large battleship measures 450ish tops... Compared to T2 Torps 650.. ur dealing 70% damage per volley... against a Battleship!
What are we supposed to be hitting with these things, again?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2009.12.17 21:16:00 -
[57]
If only there were some module with a range of about 60Km that one could use to increase the target's sig radius
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Napro
Caldari
The New Eden Syndicate
IMPERIUM.
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Posted - 2009.12.17 21:35:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Malcanis
If only there were some module with a range of about 60Km that one could use to increase the target's sig radius
Oh.. Malcanis, Malcanis, how could you be this stupid? Listen up, Assface. Target painters work on a percentage basis.
So let me keep it in layman terms and let you chew on this equation for a few hours (weeks?)
450m + 25% = 562.5.
That's right... even on a Massive ship like a Battleship-class Raven, You still do not deal full damage with a target painter fitted. Hopefully, your head has not exploded from this..
Now being as how the target painter is PERCENTAGE based, I'll give you two guesses as to if the target painter will be MORE effective or LESS effective on ships with sigradii of only a fraction that of a Raven.
On second thought, you probably can't even answer that correctly. The answer is.. THE TARGET PAINTER DOES JACKSH!T to ANYTHING Below a Raven.
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Vidi Angelus
Caldari
Axis and Alloys
Libertas Fidelitas
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Posted - 2009.12.17 21:48:00 -
[59]
Edited by: Vidi Angelus on 17/12/2009 21:50:21
Originally by: Napro
Originally by: Kassa Daito
Of course everyone here knows what a troll is.
Troll - n. - a person on an internet forum who disagrees with you.
Edit: The two of us, as well as the OP, are actually trolling since a discussion about trolling is quite obviously off-topic an totally unrelated to why SBs can't or shouldn't be able to fit cruise launchers.
Back on-topic, the new SBs are pretty well balanced with torps only. Giving them the ability to launch a set of missiles and then warp out without ever getting within a reasonable engagement range for anything smaller than a BS (that will take 20 seconds to lock them) would be incredibly broken. As it is, the only thing a small group of SBs reasonably has to worry about killing them is a trap or sensor-boosted sniper HAC. Nothing else can even get the first volley off unelss the SBs really mess up or get greedy.
There is a big diffference between an uncloaked frig with long BS range and a covops cloaked ship with long BS range.
TLDR
OK i just found out that T2 Rage torps have EXP RADIUS of 650m compared to 450 for standard. No problem , I thought to myself as I gazed at the attributes page, surely the Stealth Bombers have an Explosion radius bonus like they did when they used Cruise missiles.
Unbeknownst to me, however, they DO NOT!
Quote:
Caldari Frigate Skill Bonus:
10% bonus to torpedo explosion velocity and flight time per level
20% bonus to torpedo missile velocity per level
Covert Ops Skill Bonus:
5% bonus to bomb kinetic damage per level
15% bonus to torpedo kinetic damage per level
Role Bonus:
-99.65% reduction in Siege Missile Launcher powergrid needs
-99.5% reduction in Cloak CPU Use
-100% targeting delay after decloaking
How the F*CK are u supposed to shoot anything below a BattleShip with this? Even a large battleship measures 450ish tops... Compared to T2 Torps 650.. ur dealing 70% damage per volley... against a Battleship!
What are we supposed to be hitting with these things, again?
So don't use Rage missiles. I've been managing just fine without.
Seriously, Is it that hard to figure out?
[Hound, ratting]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Scan Resolution Dampening
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Bomb Launcher I, Electron Bomb
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
526 DPS, Swap the Explosive screen & damp for Polycarb & Target painter if not hunting ratting battleships.
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Napro
Caldari
The New Eden Syndicate
IMPERIUM.
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Posted - 2009.12.17 22:00:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Vidi Angelus
So don't use Rage missiles. I've been managing just fine without.
Seriously, Is it that hard to figure out?
[Hound, ratting]
Ballistic Control System II
Ballistic Control System II
Co-Processor II
Catalyzed Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters
Phased Muon Sensor Disruptor I, Scan Resolution Dampening
J5 Prototype Warp Disruptor I
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo
'Arbalest' Siege Missile Launcher, Caldari Navy Bane Torpedo
Covert Ops Cloaking Device II
Bomb Launcher I, Electron Bomb
Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I
Small Anti-Explosive Screen Reinforcer I
526 DPS, Swap the Explosive screen & damp for Polycarb & Target painter if not hunting ratting battleships.
Aren't you a bright one... Maybe you should take a gander at the thread (BEFORE posting next time) and see it wasn't me who suggested T2 Torps and 650 EFT Dps
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2009.12.17 22:14:00 -
[61]
That was me, I didnt realize the Rage torps were that bad, but I use 2 Target painters on my bomber, and they are a bit over 35% after skills (minus the stacking penalty). So I can make just about any battleship big enough to get full damage from rage torps.
But for Battlecruisers and such, faction torps are definetly the way to go for me.
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Napro
Caldari
Galactic Space Corps
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Posted - 2010.01.02 01:02:00 -
[62]
It's one thing to nerf an overpowered ship... It's quite another to complete change its purpose and weapon systems.
From a Cruise Missile Explosion Radius bonus to a Torp Range bonus...... Uh.. Right
I'm unsubbing again
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.01.02 02:07:00 -
[63]
Edited by: Duchess Starbuckington on 02/01/2010 02:07:11
Originally by: Napro
It's one thing to nerf an overpowered ship... It's quite another to complete change its purpose and weapon systems.
From a Cruise Missile Explosion Radius bonus to a Torp Range bonus...... Uh.. Right
I'm unsubbing again
Good riddance to noob rubbish.
... Unless I just got trolled. It's getting harder to tell.
_________________________________
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.02 02:11:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Duchess Starbuckington
Good riddance to noob rubbish.
... Unless I just got trolled. It's getting harder to tell.
I agree, but really: quitting over the fact that your favourite ship got buffed to the heavens and beyond just screams troll. 
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Military Research and Manufacturing Corp.
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Posted - 2010.01.02 02:47:00 -
[65]
Wow!!!! Here I used to argue that putting cov ops cloak on a stealth bomber would make them overpowered. They've both added cov ops cloak and switched to torps now??? 
Originally by: CCP Wrangler
We are pleased to aim!
Or was that the other way around?
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Napro
Caldari
Galactic Space Corps
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Posted - 2010.01.02 03:00:00 -
[66]
BUFFED?? IS THAT A JOKE?
Cruisers sig radius.. 125m
+ 2 unpenalized TPs = 200m
Torp Exp Radius... 450minimum.. 700 for Rages
How tha FUK is this a buff? Gimped 80km Torps and less range over Far more effective cruise missiles with exp radius bonuses and ranges of 250km... WTF are u smoking?
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2010.01.02 03:14:00 -
[67]
Mew!
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.02 03:16:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Napro
How tha FUK is this a buff?
Now they can actually do damage.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Napro
Caldari
Galactic Space Corps
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Posted - 2010.01.02 03:21:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Napro
How tha FUK is this a buff?
Now they can actually do damage.
Try doing damage against a cruiser 
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.02 03:29:00 -
[70]
Originally by: Napro
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Napro
How tha FUK is this a buff?
Now they can actually do damage.
Try doing damage against a cruiser
NP. Depending on your setup, I'd suggest pressing F1 (possibly preceded by F2, just to scare the hell out of them).
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
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Drazin DawnTreader
Cutthroat Mercenary Corp
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Posted - 2010.01.02 03:30:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Napro
Cruisers sig radius.. 125m
+ 2 unpenalized TPs = 200m
With my skills, my TP's give an Omen 228m Signature and I still deal 427 DPS.
Add a Bomb and thats a very dead Omen in a very short time.
Seriously, The changes are a godsend to a ship class that was mediocre at best. Sure I got tons of kills in one before the changes, but they were generally on very small ships that I could one shot. Now I can kill larger ships that I can oneshot. If I can't one shot em, I have 640-681 DPS in a frigate hull that can finish the job.
Improvise and overcome. Change is inevitable, and good.
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Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.01.02 03:47:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Napro
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Napro
How tha FUK is this a buff?
Now they can actually do damage.
Try doing damage against a cruiser
NP. Depending on your setup, I'd suggest pressing F1 (possibly preceded by F2, just to scare the hell out of them).
Napro also forgot that moast likely the cruiser in question will already be webbed by the initial tackler and quite possibly webbed/painted by a rapier as that is my favorite tackle to pair with some roaming bombers. Try harder Napro you are out of practice mate. 
Originally by: Akita T
We don't hate people like you, we look at you with mostly pity and a hint of disgust balled up in a big wad of "notto disu shi'tto agen".
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Arronicus
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.02 06:39:00 -
[73]
didnt bother to read every post as this thread is so full of misconceptions and people who havent even flown bombers before.
1) My bomber gets 660 dps, 720 dps overheating, and thats with ONLY t2 mods, no implants, and torp spec only to 3. i also have a sensor damp, target painter, and 2 sensor boosters fit, so i have NOT sacrificed essential fittings by any means. It is a manticore. if you are getting 248 dps out of your bomber, i reccomend training cov ops from lvl 1 up to level 4. same with your torps skill.
2) Will anything 1 shot you? Potentially. But what do you expect for a ship that can deal more dps than some battleships, at LEAST on par with battlecruisers, from roughly 60-70km range, and about 500 dps at 108km+ range? (when i use javelins) Does this mean you WILL die alot? No. You choose your fights properly, you dont solo, you make sure you are aligned, and most of the time if a battleship starts firing on you, assuming you have enough braincells to not use an mwd on your bomber, the first volley wont kill you, at which time you warp off.
3) Wah wah wah I cant hit a cruiser. Cmon, are you kidding me? Stealth bombers are designed to shoot battleships, or similar sized targets. For this, they are AMAZING. Can we get some people in here crying please that dreads cant hit battlecruisers cause of sig radius? thanks.
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Myn Daern
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Posted - 2010.01.02 08:06:00 -
[74]
I'm still confused as to why people still put sensor boosters on there bombers...If I'm missing something please enlighten me. You really don't need them for the range, and I target Battleships in 2 seconds anyway, which is still more than enough time to fire torps and have them do there thing.
If your doing a bombing run, in some cases, you don't even fire, you launch your bomb and warp, while your victim is twisting in the wind. In any case I have never seen the use for sensor boosters on the 'upgraded' bombers.
I can however see putting them on the old bombers that couldn't fit the covops cloak, maybe just old players having a hard time adapting.
Fly Safe |
Napro
Caldari
Galactic Space Corps
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Posted - 2010.01.02 08:27:00 -
[75]
This reply is so full of fail.. Here we go..
Originally by: Arronicus
didnt bother to read every post as this thread is so full of misconceptions and people who havent even flown bombers before.
1) My bomber gets 660 dps, 720 dps overheating, and thats with ONLY t2 mods, no implants, and torp spec only to 3. i also have a sensor damp, target painter, and 2 sensor boosters fit, so i have NOT sacrificed essential fittings by any means. It is a manticore. if you are getting 248 dps out of your bomber, i reccomend training cov ops from lvl 1 up to level 4. same with your torps skill.
Nice EFT Warrioring... Hey if I tell you you got 1hundred thousand DPS ill bet you'd cream your pants. The only catch.. Only .000001% of it will be felt because of a sig penalty. Still think you got a good deal?
Quote:
2) Will anything 1 shot you? Potentially. But what do you expect for a ship that can deal more dps than some battleships, at LEAST on par with battlecruisers, from roughly 60-70km range, and about 500 dps at 108km+ range? (when i use javelins) Does this mean you WILL die alot? No. You choose your fights properly, you dont solo, you make sure you are aligned, and most of the time if a battleship starts firing on you, assuming you have enough braincells to not use an mwd on your bomber, the first volley wont kill you, at which time you warp off.
I really don't understand this.. you're NOT going to 1 shot a BS. This will never happen. The numbers dont addup. So you're basically reducing yourself to be an annoying mosquito. Sting.. then run. If you want to do bc dps why not umm... USE A BC... that way you wont have to warp away at the first sign of a flashy yellow box? Oh not to mention ITS INSURED, HAS DRONES, HAS A TANK..
Quote:
3) Wah wah wah I cant hit a cruiser. Cmon, are you kidding me? Stealth bombers are designed to shoot battleships, or similar sized targets. For this, they are AMAZING. Can we get some people in here crying please that dreads cant hit battlecruisers cause of sig radius? thanks.
THATS MY WHOLE POINT [email protected] WAS NOT THEIR ROLE BEFORE. THE ENTIRE ROLE HAS CHANGED FOR NO GOD DAMN GOOD REASON.
CCP At least could have allowed 2 variations of bombers, 1 for cruise, 1 for torp... but they pretty much locked me into buzzing solo BS's.. WHY?
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Max Hardcase
Art of War
Cult of War
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Posted - 2010.01.02 09:22:00 -
[76]
Edited by: Max Hardcase on 02/01/2010 09:23:51
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Napro
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Napro
How tha FUK is this a buff?
Now they can actually do damage.
Try doing damage against a cruiser
NP. Depending on your setup, I'd suggest pressing F1 (possibly preceded by F2, just to scare the hell out of them).
Like I've said b4, cruise missiles with the current OTT torp bonus that SB get would have worked as well ( and I do agree that the current torp SB work well given their limitations ). I would have loved to test a cruise SB with the torp like bonusses. Hell If they gave both you would have had the option of being better able to engage smaller targets ( without extra efford like TP and web ) at the cost of maximum DPS. The option would have cost nothing.
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debbie harrio
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Posted - 2010.01.02 11:20:00 -
[77]
seems we have a lot of whine on this thread from killmail junkies about sb's not being noobship/frigate instapopping, useless for anything else ships.
HTFU, the stealth bomber is brilliant now.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.01.02 11:49:00 -
[78]
For the life of me I cannot understand how people can complain about a frigate that can warp cloaked, do 600+ DPS at 60Km, got a big fittings boost and can use a fire-and-forget area affect weapon that has the largest sub-cap alpha in the game.
If you want a T2 frigate for killing small ships then use... well use every other T2 frigate class; Interceptor, AFs, Interdictors: they're all great at killing small ships. They're all highly specialised for that job. Bombers were specialised for solo-killing AFK frigates and haulers; now they are highly adapted for group-killing Battlecruisers and larger ships. Is this so very hard to understand? You dont use bombers solo any more. You use them to bomb blobs or to add DPS to Force Recon gangs or to massacre mining ops.
But then some people will complain abut anything, I suppose. All I can say is, if that's a "nerf" then please "nerf" all my ships like that. I promise not to complain about my covops-cloaked Tachyon-Beam firing Zealot, even though tachyon lasers do have far worse tracking than FMPs.
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lollerwaffle
Sileo In Pacis
THE SPACE P0LICE
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Posted - 2010.01.02 11:56:00 -
[79]
Why do you guys eve bother responding? 9 of 10 OPs like these are idiots who can't fit their ships to save their life anyway (hint: look at OP's numbers). Besides he's already stated in multiple threads that he's unsubbing, so he's not going to benefit from any discussion here anyway. Might as well use that time to help newbies who are genuinely curious about..
Oops, I fell for it too.. 
Originally by: salva dore
Cloak should not be AFK solution.
What do you think?
Originally by: AFK Cloaker
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point.
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.01.02 12:33:00 -
[80]
Originally by: lollerwaffle
Why do you guys eve bother responding? 9 of 10 OPs like these are idiots who can't fit their ships to save their life anyway (hint: look at OP's numbers). Besides he's already stated in multiple threads that he's unsubbing, so he's not going to benefit from any discussion here anyway. Might as well use that time to help newbies who are genuinely curious about..
Oops, I fell for it too..
Good point. Battleclinic shows his last bomber loss was... last March. So he hasn't even tried the torp bomber. In fact it rather looks like he hasn't even been active in PvP since September.
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Duchess Starbuckington
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Posted - 2010.01.02 14:01:00 -
[81]
Originally by: Malcanis
For the life of me I cannot understand how people can complain about a frigate that can warp cloaked, do 600+ DPS at 60Km, got a big fittings boost and can use a fire-and-forget area affect weapon that has the largest sub-cap alpha in the game.
If you want a T2 frigate for killing small ships then use... well use every other T2 frigate class; Interceptor, AFs, Interdictors: they're all great at killing small ships. They're all highly specialised for that job. Bombers were specialised for solo-killing AFK frigates and haulers; now they are highly adapted for group-killing Battlecruisers and larger ships. Is this so very hard to understand? You dont use bombers solo any more. You use them to bomb blobs or to add DPS to Force Recon gangs or to massacre mining ops.
This. Oh God this.
I flew a bomber pre-patch. I scored a few kills on frigates. But know what that ship was? A toy. A flashy gimmick. Something I never undocked for serious pvp because as he just aptly put it - I could do exactly the same thing better in an AF.
Now?
First time I used this was zooming around a pos at 2km/s lobbing torpedos at anything flashy red and coming in respectable places on damage. It damn useful, and it was fun.
I see people complaining about range here as well. I trained for t2 torps for Javlins and suddenly that's not an issue any more.
I also see people whining about not doing full damage to cruisers. Newsflash; you don't need to do full damage. I've thrown a couple of painters on a cruiser and while I'm certainly not hitting for 100%, I'm hitting for enough that pretty large chunks vanish from their armour. So by no means useless there.
Hell I'd probably be calling nerf if I could do full dps to a cruiser hull, given that the alpha on a SB is somewhere around the 4k area.
And I'm not even going to get started on the covops cloak.
_________________________________
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Rastigan
Caldari
Ars ex Discordia
GoonSwarm
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Posted - 2010.01.02 16:56:00 -
[82]
Edited by: Rastigan on 02/01/2010 16:56:20
Originally by: Napro
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Napro
How tha FUK is this a buff?
Now they can actually do damage.
Try doing damage against a cruiser
A Purifier with a TP can strip the shields of a non shield tanked battlecruiser in one volley.
There are already TONS of small ships than can kill other small ships, having a small ship specialized for killing large ships is a good niche.
Dont use Rage torps even against a battleship unless it is double TP'ed and webbed.
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Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.02 17:16:00 -
[83]
Originally by: Napro
Nice EFT Warrioring... Hey if I tell you you got 1hundred thousand DPS ill bet you'd cream your pants. The only catch.. Only .000001% of it will be felt because of a sig penalty. Still think you got a good deal?
This is, naturally, wrong.
Quote:
I really don't understand this.. you're NOT going to 1 shot a BS. This will never happen.
Who said you will?
Quote:
So you're basically reducing yourself to be an annoying mosquito. Sting.. then run. If you want to do bc dps why not umm... USE A BC...
By that token, if you want to be an AF, use an AF! You'll even get the added bonus of having a tank. Oh, and BCs can't insta-wtfpwn groups of cruisers and frigs in one click the way an SB wing can.
Quote:
THATS MY WHOLE POINT [email protected] WAS NOT THEIR ROLE BEFORE. THE ENTIRE ROLE HAS CHANGED FOR NO GOD DAMN GOOD REASON.
There was a perfectly good reason, you just don't like it: it was doing the same job as AFs, Intys, Destroyers, Interdictors. Now it has its own role. That is the reason why anything should ever be changed – to give it a unique purpose and role in the game.
Originally by: Max Hardcase
Hell If they gave both you would have had the option of being better able to engage smaller targets ( without extra efford like TP and web ) at the cost of maximum DPS. The option would have cost nothing.
You already have both options. Bombs do wonderfully nasty things to smaller ships; torps do wonderfully nasty things to larger ships (and still respectably nasty things to the small stuff).
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Arronicus
Phantom Squad
Atlas Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.02 21:41:00 -
[84]
Originally by: Myn Daern
I'm still confused as to why people still put sensor boosters on there bombers...If I'm missing something please enlighten me. You really don't need them for the range, and I target Battleships in 2 seconds anyway, which is still more than enough time to fire torps and have them do there thing.
If your doing a bombing run, in some cases, you don't even fire, you launch your bomb and warp, while your victim is twisting in the wind. In any case I have never seen the use for sensor boosters on the 'upgraded' bombers.
I can however see putting them on the old bombers that couldn't fit the covops cloak, maybe just old players having a hard time adapting.
Fly Safe
Because worthwhile questions deserve answers:
First, on the topic of sensor boosters: why? Short answer, because with javelin torps, your torps go much farther than your locking range. With rigs i can shoot 120km (and there IS practical applications, warp in at 100km from the fight, and be able to fire without close range gank battleships being able to hit you, being able to shoot falcons/blackbirds, or even messing with cap ships in giant cap engagements. sure, you arent making much of a dent, but its still kinda fun.)
Then theres the matter of scan res. do enough gate camps in lowsec and such, and you will quickly find alot of the time if you dont have over k scan res, you dont get on alot of the kms.
As for sensor boosters on bombers that you are using on bombing runs? No, unless you are carrying javs too. otherwise pointless. Which brings me to an important point to note. You do not fit a bomber for bombing runs like you fit a bomber for roaming gangs. the bomb launcher kills your ability to fit it to the full extent of its damage, not to mention, if youre doing bombing runs, the chance of losing your bomber is MUCH higher, thus my lack of desire to fit t2 launchers, load it with nanite paste, etc. No, its not a huge cost, but why waste an extra 10-20m on something that is just gonna go splat? Hope that kindof answered your question Myn.
As for the comment on not being able to deal full dps, thats why you fit target painters on your bombers, and go after battleships and battlecruisers. yes. you will deal full dps. No, my fitting is not pure Eft warrioring, i have bombers fitted out in game, WHICH I USE, fitted for that level of dps. No, i know it isnt a ton, but i have a little over 200 kills in a bomber excluding use of bombs.
As for not being able to 1 volley battleships? I do believe I did specifically say it is not a solo ship, however, in gangs of 10-20 (bombers), yes, you WILL 1 volley battleships, especially battlecruisers, and other funny things.
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Sidus Isaacs
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.03 00:32:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Napro
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: Napro
How tha FUK is this a buff?
Now they can actually do damage.
Try doing damage against a cruiser
Heard of Target Painters? Use them.
99% of the poeple like the new bombers, indeed they are now quite effective, and its a fact if you look on the kill stats done by bombers latly.
So its you who got a personal problem with them, the ships themself are fine.
All I would want on them are a tad more CPU (casue T2 sieges use lots of CPU). :P
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http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html |
Myn Daern
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Posted - 2010.01.03 02:03:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Arronicus
Then theres the matter of scan res. do enough gate camps in lowsec and such, and you will quickly find alot of the time if you dont have over k scan res, you dont get on alot of the kms.
As for sensor boosters on bombers that you are using on bombing runs? No, unless you are carrying javs too. otherwise pointless. Which brings me to an important point to note. You do not fit a bomber for bombing runs like you fit a bomber for roaming gangs. the bomb launcher kills your ability to fit it to the full extent of its damage, not to mention, if youre doing bombing runs, the chance of losing your bomber is MUCH higher, thus my lack of desire to fit t2 launchers, load it with nanite paste, etc. No, its not a huge cost, but why waste an extra 10-20m on something that is just gonna go splat? Hope that kindof answered your question Myn.
First, thanks for your candid answer.
Second, if you using javelins in a fleet parked 120km off the battle, SB's ok that makes sense, if that floats your boat, more power to you.
Last, I've survived all of my bombing runs, so I don't buy that bit about higher chance of loss. I fly with a small group of 5-8 bombers and we all decloak, launch, and warp off as close together as possible, yeah this destroys some of our own bombs, and its a pot shoot for KM, but I really don't care about the KM. TBH only one of our bombers has been destroyed due to bombing runs, and that was pure pilot error. But TBH while on a small gang roam I won't break out the bomber, I'm more likely to bring a HAC for the bomber has some, but not a lot of uses in a non covops gang. But that's just my experience, to each there own. Please continue to share your view, I might be missing something.
BTW I always fully T1 fit bomb run bombers to stifle the replacement cost should I lose it.
Fly safe |
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