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Tenaj
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:32:00 -
[241]
Here how it'll work:
Ore Relocator A is in a cheap frigate and has parked their BS in a nearby station. Ore Relocator B is in an indy. They are ganged.
A drops his can next to a mining op and transfers the ore to his can. Miner kills A's frigate and he returns to the station. (As far as i know he can't pod A) Now one of two things will happen:
1. Ore relocator B transfers the ore from A's can to his hold. No flag occurs as they are ganged. The miner cannot touch B
2. The miner quickly retrieves his ore from A's can. A has just returned in his BS and the miner is flagged to him. A destroys the miner and B recovers any remaining ore plus loot.
And let's not forget the 3rd possibility. With war being illegal in Shiva if there have been no shots fired, certain corps (Tenaj points to her shiny new Huff membership badge) will be only too happy to declare war on the miner's corp.
There are several variations on this. All that'll change in Shiva is that the miner will get killed as well as lose his ore, while the thief will lose the occasional frigate. (could even perform role A in a shuttle).
Thieves fearing Shiva? I don't think so.........
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Tenaj
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:32:00 -
[242]
Here how it'll work:
Ore Relocator A is in a cheap frigate and has parked their BS in a nearby station. Ore Relocator B is in an indy. They are ganged.
A drops his can next to a mining op and transfers the ore to his can. Miner kills A's frigate and he returns to the station. (As far as i know he can't pod A) Now one of two things will happen:
1. Ore relocator B transfers the ore from A's can to his hold. No flag occurs as they are ganged. The miner cannot touch B
2. The miner quickly retrieves his ore from A's can. A has just returned in his BS and the miner is flagged to him. A destroys the miner and B recovers any remaining ore plus loot.
And let's not forget the 3rd possibility. With war being illegal in Shiva if there have been no shots fired, certain corps (Tenaj points to her shiny new Huff membership badge) will be only too happy to declare war on the miner's corp.
There are several variations on this. All that'll change in Shiva is that the miner will get killed as well as lose his ore, while the thief will lose the occasional frigate. (could even perform role A in a shuttle).
Thieves fearing Shiva? I don't think so.........
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:35:00 -
[243]
The regular containers were designed to jettison unwanted items into space or to hold loot from blown up ships. They were designed so that any player could take from them because that was essential for them to function as they were intended. Players later invented the "container mining" method after noticing that the containers could hold way more than any cargo hold. This use for the containers was never intended and it has the obvious flaw that any player with a reduced sense of right and wrong can come by and take everything from the container and no one can do anything about it.
This risk should be known to all players and there will be no reimbursement for ore lost this way. Also, ore "theft" is not considered harassment so no punishment will be dealt out to those who choose to "steal".Players who are thinking of taking up a career as ore thiefs should note that they will face a lifetime of unpopularity and unhappiness as a result.
CCP has decided to meet players halfway by implementing secure containers that can be bought on the market and have the advantage of being equipped with a password lock. These containers cost money and do not hold the vast amount of ore that the regular containers do. However, with good organization and frequent ore pickups using Industrial ships, they can be very useful for large scale mining operations.
The bottom line is: If you use regular containers to store your ore you assume all the risk. Having your valuables floating in space in an unsecured container is equivalent to throwing money on the street. Should you lurk nearby and wait for someone to take the money and then attack him, the police would deal with you, not him. The same goes in Eve. If you attack a player who just took "your" ore from a regular container in a system with a security level of 0.5 or higher. You will be destroyed by Concord.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:35:00 -
[244]
The regular containers were designed to jettison unwanted items into space or to hold loot from blown up ships. They were designed so that any player could take from them because that was essential for them to function as they were intended. Players later invented the "container mining" method after noticing that the containers could hold way more than any cargo hold. This use for the containers was never intended and it has the obvious flaw that any player with a reduced sense of right and wrong can come by and take everything from the container and no one can do anything about it.
This risk should be known to all players and there will be no reimbursement for ore lost this way. Also, ore "theft" is not considered harassment so no punishment will be dealt out to those who choose to "steal".Players who are thinking of taking up a career as ore thiefs should note that they will face a lifetime of unpopularity and unhappiness as a result.
CCP has decided to meet players halfway by implementing secure containers that can be bought on the market and have the advantage of being equipped with a password lock. These containers cost money and do not hold the vast amount of ore that the regular containers do. However, with good organization and frequent ore pickups using Industrial ships, they can be very useful for large scale mining operations.
The bottom line is: If you use regular containers to store your ore you assume all the risk. Having your valuables floating in space in an unsecured container is equivalent to throwing money on the street. Should you lurk nearby and wait for someone to take the money and then attack him, the police would deal with you, not him. The same goes in Eve. If you attack a player who just took "your" ore from a regular container in a system with a security level of 0.5 or higher. You will be destroyed by Concord.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Nafri
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:38:00 -
[245]
still open? Wanna fly with me?
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Nafri
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:38:00 -
[246]
still open? Wanna fly with me?
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Ryctor
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:38:00 -
[247]
Avon dont even bother man....Its not registering with them...Got to be faulty wiring uptop or something
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Ryctor
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:38:00 -
[248]
Avon dont even bother man....Its not registering with them...Got to be faulty wiring uptop or something
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Tenaj
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:45:00 -
[249]
Never mind, we can kill them all in a couple of weeks time.
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Tenaj
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:45:00 -
[250]
Never mind, we can kill them all in a couple of weeks time.
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Vogon
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:50:00 -
[251]
This is disgraceful. Why do you threaten my livelihood? Do I tell miners not to mine, pirates not to pirate, agent mission runners not to get some shopping for their agent?....NO...so why pick on my sole income. I have a wife and kids to support you know.
Bhaal....as an old customer of mine I'm surprised at your reaction to this thread....grow some and mine in a low sec area if you wish to avoid ore removal technicians.
Finally why would CCP ban ore removal if it generates so much interest...look at this thread....7 pages so far....
www.vogon.homestead.com
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Vogon
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:50:00 -
[252]
This is disgraceful. Why do you threaten my livelihood? Do I tell miners not to mine, pirates not to pirate, agent mission runners not to get some shopping for their agent?....NO...so why pick on my sole income. I have a wife and kids to support you know.
Bhaal....as an old customer of mine I'm surprised at your reaction to this thread....grow some and mine in a low sec area if you wish to avoid ore removal technicians.
Finally why would CCP ban ore removal if it generates so much interest...look at this thread....7 pages so far....
www.vogon.homestead.com
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Tenaj
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:55:00 -
[253]
ROFL. /me visualises offices up and down the UK just like hers today where there's a lot of alt / tabbing going on between eve forums and that spreadsheet you're doing for the boss when he walks by
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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Tenaj
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:55:00 -
[254]
ROFL. /me visualises offices up and down the UK just like hers today where there's a lot of alt / tabbing going on between eve forums and that spreadsheet you're doing for the boss when he walks by
Channel TOOKURSTUFF, serving the Criminal community.
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TAKI OKAWA
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:57:00 -
[255]
ehhh... you ore thiefs..clever one i must say, how many alts you people got?? haan?? posting with alternate characters is not cool, although it does show you guys are getting a lot of support.. ================================================== Its not the size of dog in the fight but the size of fight in the dog which matters ================================================== |
TAKI OKAWA
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:57:00 -
[256]
ehhh... you ore thiefs..clever one i must say, how many alts you people got?? haan?? posting with alternate characters is not cool, although it does show you guys are getting a lot of support.. ================================================== Its not the size of dog in the fight but the size of fight in the dog which matters ================================================== |
Avon
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:58:00 -
[257]
Originally by: TAKI OKAWA ehhh... you ore thiefs..clever one i must say, how many alts you people got?? haan?? posting with alternate characters is not cool, although it does show you guys are getting a lot of support..
Um, which alts?
Most of the characters I see here are 'mains' ______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:58:00 -
[258]
Originally by: TAKI OKAWA ehhh... you ore thiefs..clever one i must say, how many alts you people got?? haan?? posting with alternate characters is not cool, although it does show you guys are getting a lot of support..
Um, which alts?
Most of the characters I see here are 'mains' ______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Aion Amarra
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:59:00 -
[259]
I haven't really got a problem with Ore thiefs... it just seems that some of you people are using weird points to argument against the other side.
Real Life examples always are BS. You can always bendthem in a way, that benefits yourself. I could say something like: * A garbage man wouldn't come pick up your garbage can (woo! it rhymes), when he sees, that a) you still are constantly hauling stuff into it b) he would leave you alone if you ask him not to pick up the can (an ore 'thief' won't) c) you are using your garbage can to haul rocks in a place far outside any city/town/village, the garbage man wouldn't even come near you. (and belts usually are 'outside' stations, huh?) * People who dig through garbage cans, with you standing beside them and asking to stop doing so is a different matter than leaving the can alone and someone picks something out of it. Actually I'd think people who are trying to find something in a can, wouldn't even peek into one when they know they're being watched.
And I don't think that ore 'thiefs' having the 'risk' of losing time through searching for miners counts, neways. If both the miner and the 'thief' we're mining, risk would be gone for both of them. So why try to steal ore in the first place? To me it looks like the only cause for a 'thief' 'stealing' ore would be to harrass the miner and to laugh at him when he protests. O_o. Fun indeed.
Neways, I'd like to see the 11000m¦ Security can Eve-I has been listing here for months finally ingame. (Or has it been ingame earlier and been taken out...?)
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Aion Amarra
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Posted - 2004.11.15 13:59:00 -
[260]
I haven't really got a problem with Ore thiefs... it just seems that some of you people are using weird points to argument against the other side.
Real Life examples always are BS. You can always bendthem in a way, that benefits yourself. I could say something like: * A garbage man wouldn't come pick up your garbage can (woo! it rhymes), when he sees, that a) you still are constantly hauling stuff into it b) he would leave you alone if you ask him not to pick up the can (an ore 'thief' won't) c) you are using your garbage can to haul rocks in a place far outside any city/town/village, the garbage man wouldn't even come near you. (and belts usually are 'outside' stations, huh?) * People who dig through garbage cans, with you standing beside them and asking to stop doing so is a different matter than leaving the can alone and someone picks something out of it. Actually I'd think people who are trying to find something in a can, wouldn't even peek into one when they know they're being watched.
And I don't think that ore 'thiefs' having the 'risk' of losing time through searching for miners counts, neways. If both the miner and the 'thief' we're mining, risk would be gone for both of them. So why try to steal ore in the first place? To me it looks like the only cause for a 'thief' 'stealing' ore would be to harrass the miner and to laugh at him when he protests. O_o. Fun indeed.
Neways, I'd like to see the 11000m¦ Security can Eve-I has been listing here for months finally ingame. (Or has it been ingame earlier and been taken out...?)
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Avon
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Posted - 2004.11.15 14:04:00 -
[261]
Moaning about ore theft being risk free is silly. People can only steal ore because miners are lazy and greedy. Turn it around - what risks do miners have without ore theft? ______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
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Posted - 2004.11.15 14:04:00 -
[262]
Moaning about ore theft being risk free is silly. People can only steal ore because miners are lazy and greedy. Turn it around - what risks do miners have without ore theft? ______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Bhaal
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Posted - 2004.11.15 14:21:00 -
[263]
Quote: Bhaal....as an old customer of mine I'm surprised at your reaction to this thread....grow some and mine in a low sec area if you wish to avoid ore removal technicians.
Uhmm... I do...
I mine in 0.0, 0.1-0.4 and 0.5 to 1.0...
I never said that I don't mine in other sec zones...
Whoever called me a Democrat in RL, is very wrong, I've never voted for a Democrat in my life, I'm the farthest thing from a liberal one can be!
And Avon, why would you think mining in 1.0 - 0.5 should incur some risk? It's secure Empire patrolled space asshat!
If I want better ores, I move to more dangerous sec zones, risk vs. reward, you know what that means? It's the phrase that has been thrown around all too often by griefers since this games inception...
Honestly, you ore thieves and those who support this exploit are hanging on to threads here... your arguments are very week...
You guys will soon be a dying breed, and I for one whole heartedly welcome any change CCP employs to rid secure space of you exploiters...
The game is shaping up. And CCP need players like me to hammer home these points of contention, to make the game fair and balanced for all...
I will continue to help them with this noble endeavor and Avon, yes I might get banned now and again, but I will always be here in some form or another...
------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!" |
Bhaal
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Posted - 2004.11.15 14:21:00 -
[264]
Quote: Bhaal....as an old customer of mine I'm surprised at your reaction to this thread....grow some and mine in a low sec area if you wish to avoid ore removal technicians.
Uhmm... I do...
I mine in 0.0, 0.1-0.4 and 0.5 to 1.0...
I never said that I don't mine in other sec zones...
Whoever called me a Democrat in RL, is very wrong, I've never voted for a Democrat in my life, I'm the farthest thing from a liberal one can be!
And Avon, why would you think mining in 1.0 - 0.5 should incur some risk? It's secure Empire patrolled space asshat!
If I want better ores, I move to more dangerous sec zones, risk vs. reward, you know what that means? It's the phrase that has been thrown around all too often by griefers since this games inception...
Honestly, you ore thieves and those who support this exploit are hanging on to threads here... your arguments are very week...
You guys will soon be a dying breed, and I for one whole heartedly welcome any change CCP employs to rid secure space of you exploiters...
The game is shaping up. And CCP need players like me to hammer home these points of contention, to make the game fair and balanced for all...
I will continue to help them with this noble endeavor and Avon, yes I might get banned now and again, but I will always be here in some form or another...
------------------------------------------------ "for piece sakes!" |
Lijah
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Posted - 2004.11.15 15:20:00 -
[265]
Originally by: Bhaal
Quote: SECURE CANS! OKTYBYEBYE
Sure thing dude, as soon as they sell secure cans with 27,500 m3 of volume, I'll be first in line to get some...
The ones they sell now are a joke, a slap in the face to serious miners...
They are as pathetic as your response was to the original post...
I have to agree ... what's the point o having secure cans' that are barely bigger then a cruisers cargo anyway?!?! at least make them half the size of a decent indy cargo, and it's also naff that you can't deploy them close to a belt ... (ie within 1k m's of a roid. They're useless ...
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Lijah
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Posted - 2004.11.15 15:20:00 -
[266]
Originally by: Bhaal
Quote: SECURE CANS! OKTYBYEBYE
Sure thing dude, as soon as they sell secure cans with 27,500 m3 of volume, I'll be first in line to get some...
The ones they sell now are a joke, a slap in the face to serious miners...
They are as pathetic as your response was to the original post...
I have to agree ... what's the point o having secure cans' that are barely bigger then a cruisers cargo anyway?!?! at least make them half the size of a decent indy cargo, and it's also naff that you can't deploy them close to a belt ... (ie within 1k m's of a roid. They're useless ...
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Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2004.11.15 15:37:00 -
[267]
People who demand moderation should mail the mods instead of discussing it for an entire page.
[email protected]
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
Eris Discordia
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Posted - 2004.11.15 15:37:00 -
[268]
People who demand moderation should mail the mods instead of discussing it for an entire page.
[email protected]
I ♥ my pink dreadnought of pwnage Mail [email protected] if you have any questions. |
Avon
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Posted - 2004.11.15 15:50:00 -
[269]
Originally by: Lijah
Originally by: Bhaal
Quote: SECURE CANS! OKTYBYEBYE
Sure thing dude, as soon as they sell secure cans with 27,500 m3 of volume, I'll be first in line to get some...
The ones they sell now are a joke, a slap in the face to serious miners...
They are as pathetic as your response was to the original post...
I have to agree ... what's the point o having secure cans' that are barely bigger then a cruisers cargo anyway?!?! at least make them half the size of a decent indy cargo, and it's also naff that you can't deploy them close to a belt ... (ie within 1k m's of a roid. They're useless ...
You can sit 2.5km away from 6 secure cans, not really a hardship. ______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
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Posted - 2004.11.15 15:50:00 -
[270]
Originally by: Lijah
Originally by: Bhaal
Quote: SECURE CANS! OKTYBYEBYE
Sure thing dude, as soon as they sell secure cans with 27,500 m3 of volume, I'll be first in line to get some...
The ones they sell now are a joke, a slap in the face to serious miners...
They are as pathetic as your response was to the original post...
I have to agree ... what's the point o having secure cans' that are barely bigger then a cruisers cargo anyway?!?! at least make them half the size of a decent indy cargo, and it's also naff that you can't deploy them close to a belt ... (ie within 1k m's of a roid. They're useless ...
You can sit 2.5km away from 6 secure cans, not really a hardship. ______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
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