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Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.16 17:47:00 - [1] Edited by: Hydroblunt on 16/12/2009 17:47:42 I have been playing EvE since July, this is my original account. I started a trading alt around late July, which has essentially become my main ISK generator. I'm no trading god, but I do aight, think I have made a few bil by now. My strategy is pretty simple, I do some basic station trading of high turnover items, but the bulk of my strategy is buying & reprocessing modules & noob ships in a 1 range radius. I get 99.5% efficiency with this account and just pass via corp hangar. Over the months I have encountered some trading competitors that make me scratch my head. I end up labeling them as idiots, who barely scored above the mental ******ation level on the IQ test. Here are the general types. 1) The "overbid the competition by a massive amount, cutting the margin to very low levels" guy. He obviously fails to realize that his own margins are cut as well. Yeah yeah yeah, he may have some super secret strategy for better margins, but why make them smaller rather than larger. I welcome you doing the $0.01 ISK game, as both you and I will get what we want in spurts and make our ISK. But no, this idiot thinks he doing some market power move. I usually end up annoying them via the 0.01ISK to the point where they give up or end up overbidding, losing ISK and/or time, and sometimes selling the items back to me at a lower bid. 2) The "have to be top bid regional trader". This is obviously a new trading player with a very false belief of being some kind of genius by using a regional order. Now region trading is not a bad concept, but these morons completely fail to realize that chasing the top bid position in the whole region makes their margins completely not worth the regional haul or re-selling the items & the long delay in cash flow. Meanwhile, they overpay significantly for these items in systems where they could have gotten them for half the price or less. These guys rarely last past a week. 3) Kinda related to the first two but really deserves its own category. The "super duper want to corner the shuttle market trader". I wait with excitement for these guys and a new one has appeared every month. I would not even trade shuttles if it was not for these guys. He comes in and puts in a 5-10 jump or regional buy order for shuttles at a price sometimes 3 times larger than then current bid (usually mine). I guess a kerosene lamp lit up in his head and he thought that shuttles, being possibly the highest turnover item in EvE, would be easy ISK. And why watch the buying cost, just overwhelm everyone with a high buy price and sell even higher cause, like, just monopolize the market, RAWR! Well, eventually reality hits and the fool gets hit with a few large order from manufacturers in low traffic systems. This is after I dump my inventory to them at a nice profit. These dodos actually last about two weeks, as they wait for their sell orders to get filled and convince themselves that "Hey, shuttles MUST sell, everyone NEEDS shuttles". 4) Myself. Who just yesterday bought 5000 Large Lead charges for $241million ISK. I learned, the hard way, why players put these up for 100 times the market price at trading hubs. I felt so dumb after that I started wondering whether the short yellow bus was going to drive up to my house. Luckily, the guy whom I bought this from sent me back the ISK after I congratulated it him on the score. Special shout out to the trader who always ends his buy price with .69
Roguehalo Caldari Kimoto Innovations	Posted - 2009.12.16 18:00:00 - [2] 1st in 'whining about market pvp' thread
flakeys T.H.U.G L.I.F.E The Volition Cult	Posted - 2009.12.16 18:00:00 - [3] Edited by: flakeys on 16/12/2009 18:03:48 I once had several regions under my control with region buy orders.Doing verry good profits and even when i was below the station/system buyers i still had a large volume coming in.Now one day in comes Mr X.He likes to smaller the margins by a lot.Here i was thinking wtf is he doing he is killing both our profits and i will still follow him 0.01. So my other regions are doing ok a few weeks later but this Mr x really starts to annoy the hell out of me.The margins have dropped from above 50% to below 20% profit by now.Not good , not good at all.So after another tiresome week i decide to give up the region and focus on the other regions more. A few months later i am done with trades.Gave it up because i reached the goal i wanted isk wise and knew if i would play it smart -wich never is sure - investments in loans to others could give me enough to keep my current wallet at the same level. Basically trade burnout so just wanted to do casual trade at most.Anyway i run through the region Mr X used to be in and can't help but to check if he still would be there.He is easy to recognise because of the rather large order amounts.Now i check for one item after the other and i can't believe my eyes.Mr x OWNS the region.Allmost every station order is gone and he has a buy order amount of well at least 50 bille or more.His profit per unit is low but come on if he get's allmost all the loot in the region offcourse he is making a huge profit even if he only get's 10k an item in profits. The only thing i could think of was :'So that is how you REALLY push out the competition'.Btw we are not talking about a small region but one of the largest in empire. I once had a small chat with him , verry nice guy dunno if he still is out there and if i spoke to the main or an alt.
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.16 18:06:00 - [4] Originally by: flakeys Edited by: flakeys on 16/12/2009 18:03:48 I once had several regions under my control with region buy orders.Doing verry good profits and even when i was below the station/system buyers i still had a large volume coming in.Now one day in comes Mr X.He likes to smaller the margins by a lot.Here i was thinking wtf is he doing he is killing both our profits and i will still follow him 0.01. So my other regions are doing ok a few weeks later but this Mr x really starts to annoy the hell out of me.The margins have dropped from above 50% to below 20% profit by now.Not good , not good at all.So after another tiresome week i decide to give up the region and focus on the other regions more. A few months later i am done with trades.Gave it up because i reached the goal i wanted isk wise and knew if i would play it smart -wich never is sure - investments in loans to others could give me enough to keep my current wallet at the same level. Basically trade burnout so just wanted to do casual trade at most.Anyway i run through the region Mr X used to be in and can't help but to check if he still would be there.He is easy to recognise because of the rather large order amounts.Now i check for one item after the other and i can't believe my eyes.Mr x OWNS the region.Allmost every station order is gone and he has a buy order amount of well at least 50 bille or more.His profit per unit is low but come on if he get's allmost all the loot in the region offcourse he is making a huge profit even if he only get's 10k an item in profits. The only thing i could think of was :'So that is how you REALLY push out the competition'.Btw we are not talking about a small region but one of the largest in empire. I once had a small chat with him , verry nice guy dunno if he still is out there and if i spoke to the main or an alt. Why didnt u just haul to him and dump to him? Actually, what region is this?
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.16 18:12:00 - [5] Originally by: Roguehalo 1st in 'whining about market pvp' thread Yes, I'm whining about morons on which I often capitalize. Makes perfect sense
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.16 18:15:00 - [6] Originally by: Hydroblunt 1) The "overbid the competition by a massive amount, cutting the margin to very low levels" guy. He obviously fails to realize that his own margins are cut as well. Yeah yeah yeah, he may have some super secret strategy for better margins, but why make them smaller rather than larger. I welcome you doing the $0.01 ISK game, as both you and I will get what we want in spurts and make our ISK. But no, this idiot thinks he doing some market power move. I usually end up annoying them via the 0.01ISK to the point where they give up or end up overbidding, losing ISK and/or time, and sometimes selling the items back to me at a lower bid. Depending on the product, this can be useful. I currently trade on a product that the common 0.01 ISKers have buy orders at 25% of the sell order price. That's a 300% profit margin. However, there are ten traders down there and for two weeks I haven't been able to get a purchase at that level. I place buy order at 3 times the price (leaving me with a still decent 25% profit margin). My order is filled by the time I get back home, which I flip, and my order is sold before I next make it back to Eve. Anyways, just wanted to share the fun with my successes. More to OP, think outside the box, put yourself in other people's shoes, to learn why things like this happens. Sometimes they are idiots. Sometimes it gets them their product faster. Sometimes they can then leave the order around and not have to 0.01 ISK it as it fills. Sometimes they are just a consumer looking for a deal break from the sell orders. Anyways, yeah, fail on me for posting in a whine thread.
Kane Turner	Posted - 2009.12.16 18:16:00 - [7] Hey, I usually ends my price with 6.66, can you please put me in first post as new type "Satanic Trader" ? kk, ty :)
jnl	Posted - 2009.12.16 18:19:00 - [8] I'm not sure I agree with your types, Hydro. On 1) dropping the price substantially to subsequently buy out an undercutter and relist everything is a very viable strategy in many markets. And if I'm feeling really vindictive, especially in very fast-moving markets without a massive spread between lowest seller and highest buyer: people very often aren't paying attention to the buy price, and get lulled into a rhythm of "check price, adjust to 0.01 under lowest seller". So, I have on many occasions simply set a reasonable-size sell quantity of goods to be 0.01 isk above the highest buy price, so when the undercutter adjusts without thinking... boom - he's out of the market. It's damn good fun and works surprisingly often. On 2) I definitely disagree, and I think you're of this opinion because you're (no offense intended) a fairly small-time trader. Many players (and I include myself here) place tens of billions of isk in regional buy orders, often topped up over a period of many months. When enough of a quantity has been collected at a variety of locations, courier contracts bring the items to us. On 3) See my 2) above On 4) The doh! moment... Well, we've all done that in some form or other. I have an 800M isk shuttle somewhere - glad you got your isk back though!
Marko Riva Adamant Inc	Posted - 2009.12.16 18:30:00 - [9] Edited by: Marko Riva on 16/12/2009 18:33:52 scenario 1: - 11ty billion buy orders for x amount, all increased by the annoying 0.01 isk - chances of me actually buying something if I set up a buy order; nill, as within 30 seconds I'll be outbid again - I put up a smaller buy order, a rather insignificant number, for x+10% - chances of me actually buying something just went up massively, other buyers wait me out because it's just a small amount and they don't want to cut on their margin that much. If they do it anyway I'll adjust my order by a big margin. - 11thy billion sell orders for x amount, all decreased by the annoying 0.01 isk - chances of me actually selling my product; low, because someone will undercut me in 30 seconds - I put up my sell order, small orders refreshing them every time they complete, for x-10% - chances of me actually selling something; good, people probably won't react to some silly sell order of 5 items with a much lower margin and if they do; yup I'll adjust massively, again. result, I just made profit. Less that I COULD have gotten if I'd have put in time and effort but I'm not a long term trader on that product or in that area, I just want some quick cash while laughing at all the long term peeps clowning around with their 0.01 isk crap. I made profit with the least amount of time, effort and annoyance. scenario 2: realitvely quiet area and one or just a few traders control the market for a certain item (range), I try competing with them but that gets boring. Here's what I do; - I vastly increase the buy order prices, every time they match my price I'll MASSIVELY increase the price again. To the point where there's almost no profit to be made anymore - I vastly lower my sell orders, every time they match my prices I'll massively lower my price again to the point where there's no profit to be made anymore. - other traders throw their toys out of the pram and go elsewhere, shaking their head at my stupidity. The second they do that I change my prizes again and control the market. result, I had lulz due to market pvp costing me nothing (while gaining me little) with the possiblity of making good cash afterwards. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
flakeys T.H.U.G L.I.F.E The Volition Cult	Posted - 2009.12.16 18:35:00 - [10] Originally by: Hydroblunt Originally by: flakeys Edited by: flakeys on 16/12/2009 18:03:48 I once had several regions under my control with region buy orders.Doing verry good profits and even when i was below the station/system buyers i still had a large volume coming in.Now one day in comes Mr X.He likes to smaller the margins by a lot.Here i was thinking wtf is he doing he is killing both our profits and i will still follow him 0.01. So my other regions are doing ok a few weeks later but this Mr x really starts to annoy the hell out of me.The margins have dropped from above 50% to below 20% profit by now.Not good , not good at all.So after another tiresome week i decide to give up the region and focus on the other regions more. A few months later i am done with trades.Gave it up because i reached the goal i wanted isk wise and knew if i would play it smart -wich never is sure - investments in loans to others could give me enough to keep my current wallet at the same level. Basically trade burnout so just wanted to do casual trade at most.Anyway i run through the region Mr X used to be in and can't help but to check if he still would be there.He is easy to recognise because of the rather large order amounts.Now i check for one item after the other and i can't believe my eyes.Mr x OWNS the region.Allmost every station order is gone and he has a buy order amount of well at least 50 bille or more.His profit per unit is low but come on if he get's allmost all the loot in the region offcourse he is making a huge profit even if he only get's 10k an item in profits. The only thing i could think of was :'So that is how you REALLY push out the competition'.Btw we are not talking about a small region but one of the largest in empire. I once had a small chat with him , verry nice guy dunno if he still is out there and if i spoke to the main or an alt. Why didnt u just haul to him and dump to him? Actually, what region is this? Our margins where 0.01 appart , why would i haul all my stuff to him if i can sell it for more when reprocessed in jita?The guy had enough to set new orders without a problem so all i would do is save him a lot of haulwork , now that wouldn't really help me would it?

Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.16 18:36:00 - [11] Edited by: Hydroblunt on 16/12/2009 18:37:41 Originally by: jnl I'm not sure I agree with your types, Hydro. On 1) dropping the price substantially to subsequently buy out an undercutter and relist everything is a very viable strategy in many markets. And if I'm feeling really vindictive, especially in very fast-moving markets without a massive spread between lowest seller and highest buyer: people very often aren't paying attention to the buy price, and get lulled into a rhythm of "check price, adjust to 0.01 under lowest seller". So, I have on many occasions simply set a reasonable-size sell quantity of goods to be 0.01 isk above the highest buy price, so when the undercutter adjusts without thinking... boom - he's out of the market. It's damn good fun and works surprisingly often. On 2) I definitely disagree, and I think you're of this opinion because you're (no offense intended) a fairly small-time trader. Many players (and I include myself here) place tens of billions of isk in regional buy orders, often topped up over a period of many months. When enough of a quantity has been collected at a variety of locations, courier contracts bring the items to us. On 3) See my 2) above On 4) The doh! moment... Well, we've all done that in some form or other. I have an 800M isk shuttle somewhere - glad you got your isk back though! 1) If you're fighting in trading hubs, it makes sense. I stay away from that, easier ISK only a few jumps away. I've frustated all of the overbidders over time or just let them frustrate themselves 2) You overpay for items and then spend more on couriers? All while you can acquire the same items for significantly less by not battling a few small time guys like me. Yeah, makes perfect sense. No wonder these regional big shots give up before even getting a quarter of their order filled. I don't think you have been overpaying like these guys are. 3) Come on now, shuttles with that strategy?
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.16 18:42:00 - [12] Originally by: flakeys Originally by: Hydroblunt Originally by: flakeys Edited by: flakeys on 16/12/2009 18:03:48 Why didnt u just haul to him and dump to him? Actually, what region is this? Our margins where 0.01 appart , why would i haul all my stuff to him if i can sell it for more when reprocessed in jita?The guy had enough to set new orders without a problem so all i would do is save him a lot of haulwork , now that wouldn't really help me would it? From another region. If this guy is overbidding so much that noone will top him, he is obviously putting up some of the largest bids for these items in the EvE universe.
flakeys T.H.U.G L.I.F.E The Volition Cult	Posted - 2009.12.16 18:46:00 - [13] Originally by: Hydroblunt Originally by: flakeys Originally by: Hydroblunt Originally by: flakeys Edited by: flakeys on 16/12/2009 18:03:48 Why didnt u just haul to him and dump to him? Actually, what region is this? Our margins where 0.01 appart , why would i haul all my stuff to him if i can sell it for more when reprocessed in jita?The guy had enough to set new orders without a problem so all i would do is save him a lot of haulwork , now that wouldn't really help me would it? From another region. If this guy is overbidding so much that noone will top him, he is obviously putting up some of the largest bids for these items in the EvE universe. Your thread title starts to get confusing about who we are talking here. I just stated i could get a better profit if i would reprocc and sell in jita. Now you suggest to haul it to the guy so all he has to do under your tip here is fill up his freighter and go to jita a few jumps off to get 15 to 20% profits.I would SAVE HIM HAULING TIME a lot and on top KILL MY OWN PROFIT MARGIN because i am selling to him instead of reprocessing myself and selling in jita as i stated above would give me a lot more. You have a lot to learn still and i would advice to either change the title of the thread or refrain from becomming a puppet.
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2009.12.16 19:36:00 - [14] I don't usually do trading, I get bored of it. I do get quite annoyed at some T2 BPO owners who think they own the market. I had one really bad time with an invention product (which I won't name). The problem was I was up against a T2 BPO holder and between us we had most of the Domain market for the item. Now over the course of a month we started playing 0.01, 1, 10, 100, etc price wars. I was barely maintaining a profit but I wasn't going to back down. So one day he convo's me, telling me Domain is his, I shouldn't bother, he will undercut me so its not profitable, no one has beaten him yet because he owns T2 BPO, etc... Basically GTFO. That was war. I used a locator agent, found his system, his POS (0.6 with 1 station). Time for economic warfare 101. He was clearly using the one station for manufacturing and some copying(not sure why with POS in system). So I moved my entire cap module program to the station, and queued up 2 months of cap module production in ALL the factory slots. I also purchased 400 gyrostabilizer I BPO's and queued up 2 months of copying in ALL the research copy slots (public). I then announced I would follow him everywhere, and move my manufacturing there. He paid me 500M ISK to move on and kind of apologised. I think I lost 2B on the effort, but I won't back down to anyone who thinks they own a market. More importantly it was fun.
Belmarduk Amarr Imperial Shipment	Posted - 2009.12.16 19:41:00 - [15] Originally by: Hydroblunt Edited by: Hydroblunt on 16/12/2009 17:47:42 I have been playing EvE since July, this is my original account. I started a trading alt around late July I stopped reading here Mainchar:
genette devo Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.12.16 20:09:00 - [16] Originally by: cosmoray I don't usually do trading, I get bored of it. I do get quite annoyed at some T2 BPO owners who think they own the market. I had one really bad time with an invention product (which I won't name). The problem was I was up against a T2 BPO holder and between us we had most of the Domain market for the item. Now over the course of a month we started playing 0.01, 1, 10, 100, etc price wars. I was barely maintaining a profit but I wasn't going to back down. So one day he convo's me, telling me Domain is his, I shouldn't bother, he will undercut me so its not profitable, no one has beaten him yet because he owns T2 BPO, etc... Basically GTFO. That was war. I used a locator agent, found his system, his POS (0.6 with 1 station). Time for economic warfare 101. He was clearly using the one station for manufacturing and some copying(not sure why with POS in system). So I moved my entire cap module program to the station, and queued up 2 months of cap module production in ALL the factory slots. I also purchased 400 gyrostabilizer I BPO's and queued up 2 months of copying in ALL the research copy slots (public). I then announced I would follow him everywhere, and move my manufacturing there. He paid me 500M ISK to move on and kind of apologised. I think I lost 2B on the effort, but I won't back down to anyone who thinks they own a market. More importantly it was fun. what's the point of winning if you take a loss? keepin it real I suppose....keep on representing
Kwint Sommer Caldari Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.16 20:22:00 - [17] Originally by: genette devo Originally by: cosmoray I don't usually do trading, I get bored of it. I do get quite annoyed at some T2 BPO owners who think they own the market. I had one really bad time with an invention product (which I won't name). The problem was I was up against a T2 BPO holder and between us we had most of the Domain market for the item. Now over the course of a month we started playing 0.01, 1, 10, 100, etc price wars. I was barely maintaining a profit but I wasn't going to back down. So one day he convo's me, telling me Domain is his, I shouldn't bother, he will undercut me so its not profitable, no one has beaten him yet because he owns T2 BPO, etc... Basically GTFO. That was war. I used a locator agent, found his system, his POS (0.6 with 1 station). Time for economic warfare 101. He was clearly using the one station for manufacturing and some copying(not sure why with POS in system). So I moved my entire cap module program to the station, and queued up 2 months of cap module production in ALL the factory slots. I also purchased 400 gyrostabilizer I BPO's and queued up 2 months of copying in ALL the research copy slots (public). I then announced I would follow him everywhere, and move my manufacturing there. He paid me 500M ISK to move on and kind of apologised. I think I lost 2B on the effort, but I won't back down to anyone who thinks they own a market. More importantly it was fun. what's the point of winning if you take a loss? keepin it real I suppose....keep on representing One could say the same of PvP. What's the point of winning if you take a loss? The answer is you enjoyed it. 2B for the pleasure of putting that prick in his place is quite the bargain in my mind. Hell, you could barely buy a dreadnought for that.
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.16 20:23:00 - [18] Originally by: genette devo what's the point of winning if you take a loss? keepin it real I suppose....keep on representing Fun? Winning of a different sense? Ego-stroking/showing the other guy he's an idiot? Not everything's about ISK, I suppose.
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.16 20:33:00 - [19] Originally by: flakeys Your thread title starts to get confusing about who we are talking here. I just stated i could get a better profit if i would reprocc and sell in jita. Now you suggest to haul it to the guy so all he has to do under your tip here is fill up his freighter and go to jita a few jumps off to get 15 to 20% profits.I would SAVE HIM HAULING TIME a lot and on top KILL MY OWN PROFIT MARGIN because i am selling to him instead of reprocessing myself and selling in jita as i stated above would give me a lot more. Even if he is only making a 10% profit wich most would not find worthy ant more he is still making a profit if he reprocessed the items. You have a lot to learn still and i would advice to either change the title of the thread or refrain from becomming a puppet. Thought he was overbidding within mere percentages of the reprocess values. My mistake, I deal with geniuses who start bidding almost reprocess value in their quest for regional or 5 jump superiority. Please avoid the subtle insults, you tried to relate your story to what I described, and the situations are not the same. But what you could have done, was stockpile and then walk him up to below 10% of reprocess with a 1-5 jump order, as some of these fanatical regional traders will insist on being top bid no matter what. Then dump on him.
genette devo Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2009.12.16 21:26:00 - [20] Edited by: genette devo on 16/12/2009 21:35:53 Originally by: Dretzle Omega Originally by: genette devo what's the point of winning if you take a loss? keepin it real I suppose....keep on representing Fun? Winning of a different sense? Ego-stroking/showing the other guy he's an idiot? Not everything's about ISK, I suppose. i guess i'll never understand the "do it for the lulz" crowd I play the market for profit, if i don't profit from a venture I cut my losses, I pvp for a gain, if there is nothing to gain i don't pvp, if the gain isn't large enough to justify the loss i would take due to failure i write it off and move on. to me it seems too much like claiming you are a good chess player cause you "suicide ganked" a pawn with a queen

Marko Riva Adamant Inc	Posted - 2009.12.16 21:43:00 - [21] Yes, everything's about numbers... ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Phunket	Posted - 2009.12.16 22:07:00 - [22] Stop. Hammertime.
Krathos Morpheus Legion Infernal	Posted - 2009.12.16 22:20:00 - [23] Originally by: cosmoray I think I lost 2B on the effort, but I won't back down to anyone who thinks they own a market. More importantly it was fun. So he really owned the market and forced you to fight outside the market. It is nice to see an example on the t2 bpos unfaireness, and an entertaining story like this one, but in the end he never lost the market wars, you were clever to move the fight to another field. Quote: But what you could have done, was stockpile and then walk him up to below 10% of reprocess with a 1-5 jump order, as some of these fanatical regional traders will insist on being top bid no matter what. Then dump on him. As long as he is buying under reprocess value he is making a profit and you are making a loss. You will only loss by doing what you propose, you can not win with your strategy, every time you sell under reprocessing value you are losing money and the guy is gaining time. On the original issue, I think you can not generalize on anything and it always depends on single examples, that's why I think almost all whining threads on .01 and ragely overcuts are useless, because it always narrow down to the real thing and you can not generalize. There are always cases where one strategy or the other will fit. It depends on the range of prices, the profits, the volumes, location, etc. There are poorly mind marketeers out there for sure, but you can not clasify them by general behaviours, because it depends on the situation and the intentions of the person (ie: I'm going to be away one week and I want to mess with ppl in the market or get my things sold. Now it depends on volumes, trend of prices, popularity, location, # of mindless ppl, etc. for the messing to work). PS: Be nice with the .69 guy. EVEwatch Sidebar soon "It is the unofficial force ù the Jita irregulars. "
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2009.12.16 22:50:00 - [24] The issue I came up against the T2 BPO holder is large profit small turnover vs large quantity small profit. I could make 10 items to his 1, due to invention (using all my slots). On the whole I assessed our profits some what close to equal (maybe I was slighlty ahead at the depressed cost levels). The whole project became more fun when he got annoyed, argued with me, called me an idiot and got very emotional about it. I lost 2B because I used up a whole bunch of research slots that would have been used for invention to fill up factory slots with silly copying. The whole process was entertaining because I got my version of PVP without actually popping ships. Now T2 BPO's are amazing passive income generators because they require very little work and the profits are guaranteed. The problem is the payback if bought now is up to 7 years on some items. Invention has changed the whole game on T2 production as you can switch industries/items any time you like, which gives ALL the advantages to a good inventor/industrialist vs T2 BPO owner.
Halcyon Ingenium	Posted - 2009.12.16 23:48:00 - [25] Originally by: Belmarduk Originally by: Hydroblunt Edited by: Hydroblunt on 16/12/2009 17:47:42 I have been playing EvE since July, this is my original account. I started a trading alt around late July I stopped reading here The first thing I thought was, since July, no way bro! That's before last Thursday! __________ I'm just an ordinary Caldari trying to turn an ISK. What's wrong with that?
Ducky D Infinity Commerce	Posted - 2009.12.17 02:37:00 - [26] My personal favorite type of trader are the ones in Jita who think that by killing the margin with dramatic overbidding or undercutting they'll get all their product moved immediately. Come on... it's Jita. You're competing with at least few hundred active traders at any one time who probably have far, far deeper pockets than you, not to mention people coming into the system just to dump merchandise. Sure... maybe your dramatic move gave you a a few extra seconds, or maybe even a minute or two, at the front of the line on a high-volume item, but at the end of the day you've only screwed your own margin needlessly and you'll still need to come back to adjust your prices. In hub trading there is always someone willing to except a smaller profit margin then you, that's just how it is. No, this is not an "alt" poster... I actively play her, she's just in a NPC corp.
Blackball Pirate	Posted - 2009.12.17 04:49:00 - [27] actual market trading practices apply here because in EvE as in the real world idiots and morons do exist. EvE market trading is *****bation; it satisfys you but its not as good as actual *****bation.....I mean sex. because I have sex.....with ladies.
I SoStoned Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.17 05:42:00 - [28] I once had a lucrative buy-move-resell operation going in a sizable lowsec region and then some prat moves in and outbids me by a factor of 10 on pretty much everything I've got on buy... and I've been the sole buyer in the region for months. So, having a lot of spare marketing slots, I run down there with several alts and put up half a dozen 10 unit buys on all of my more profitable items at 0.01 over his and keep rotating on a daily basis, essentially competing with myself on extremely small quantities. After 2 weeks bouncing around with my alts while my much larger buys did not shift the guy stopped adjusting his orders. After 90 days they all dried up, I cancelled my own alt-buys and went back to my original orders which, despite mr. overbuyer, were actually still filling on a regular basis.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc	Posted - 2009.12.17 08:00:00 - [29] Originally by: Ducky D My personal favorite type of trader are the ones in Jita who think that by killing the margin with dramatic overbidding or undercutting they'll get all their product moved immediately. Come on... it's Jita. You're competing with at least few hundred active traders at any one time who probably have far, far deeper pockets than you, not to mention people coming into the system just to dump merchandise. Sure... maybe your dramatic move gave you a a few extra seconds, or maybe even a minute or two, at the front of the line on a high-volume item, but at the end of the day you've only screwed your own margin needlessly and you'll still need to come back to adjust your prices. In hub trading there is always someone willing to except a smaller profit margin then you, that's just how it is. Beats not moving anything while emoraging several hours a day with the 0.01 increments. Besides, it works (most of the time). ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Taikun Brunel Gallente Gecko Enterprises Teldar Paper	Posted - 2009.12.17 08:29:00 - [30] Originally by: Kwint Sommer 2B for the pleasure of putting that prick in his place is quite the bargain in my mind. Hell, you could barely buy a dreadnought for that. I spent 3 billion on Mercs because some jerk wardeced me over a solar system Tritanium price war. Best fun I had in years in this game. They brought out an alliance and threatened to take down my Large Dread Gurista POS in high sec. I laughed at that one and told them to %&^% off and they did. Taikun

Ambo I've Got Nothing	Posted - 2009.12.17 08:31:00 - [31] When it comes to trading, I've learnt that if you think your way is the only way or even the 'best' way of making isk then you're the idiot. --------------------------------------
Angus McSpork Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.17 08:34:00 - [32] Originally by: Ambo When it comes to trading, I've learnt that if you think your way is the only way or even the 'best' way of making isk then you're the idiot. To be honest that's a pretty fair statement about any of life's endeavors.
cho0li0 Gallente Universal Exports Cult of War	Posted - 2009.12.17 09:52:00 - [33] Edited by: cho0li0 on 17/12/2009 09:52:04 Originally by: flakeys The only thing i could think of was :'So that is how you REALLY push out the competition'.Btw we are not talking about a small region but one of the largest in empire. Metropolis or Domain?
Ambo I've Got Nothing	Posted - 2009.12.17 12:18:00 - [34] Originally by: Angus McSpork Originally by: Ambo When it comes to trading, I've learnt that if you think your way is the only way or even the 'best' way of making isk then you're the idiot. To be honest that's a pretty fair statement about any of life's endeavors. hehe, very true --------------------------------------
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.17 15:27:00 - [35] Originally by: Krathos Morpheus [justify] Originally by: cosmoray As long as he is buying under reprocess value he is making a profit and you are making a loss. You will only loss by doing what you propose, you can not win with your strategy, every time you sell under reprocessing value you are losing money and the guy is gaining time. You're missing the point. I see few, if any, understand the process of walking up the buyer in trading. It's a RL strategy in daytrading. You buy regional and compete with another guy who is doing the same. When the profit margin starts dwindling, you go from regional to 1-5 jump order, hence acquiring less modules, but keep overbidding him to force him to minimal profit from reprocess values. Then you dump n him. You get profit with no hauling & collecting, while he has to haul with significantly reduced profits. Most would get too frustrated & just give up. I'm guessing some won't.
flakeys T.H.U.G L.I.F.E The Volition Cult	Posted - 2009.12.17 15:28:00 - [36] Originally by: cho0li0 Edited by: cho0li0 on 17/12/2009 09:52:04 Originally by: flakeys The only thing i could think of was :'So that is how you REALLY push out the competition'.Btw we are not talking about a small region but one of the largest in empire. Metropolis or Domain? Domain :)
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.17 15:50:00 - [37] Originally by: Ambo When it comes to trading, I've learnt that if you think your way is the only way or even the 'best' way of making isk then you're the idiot. Yes because buying 5000 shuttles for 9500 ISK and being forced to dump them at 4000 ISK after 3 weeks, is a strategy I cannot understand, hence I'm the idiot. Thank you for clarifying. And supplying me with profits.
Ronald Kiyosaki	Posted - 2009.12.17 18:30:00 - [38] The fact alone that OP is feeling the need to post this in MD makes me think I'm doing my stuff just right.
RJ Nobel Nobel Research and Development	Posted - 2009.12.17 19:37:00 - [39] Originally by: Hydroblunt Originally by: Ambo When it comes to trading, I've learnt that if you think your way is the only way or even the 'best' way of making isk then you're the idiot. Yes because buying 5000 shuttles for 9500 ISK and being forced to dump them at 4000 ISK after 3 weeks, is a strategy I cannot understand, hence I'm the idiot. Thank you for clarifying. And supplying me with profits. Ambo is completely correct. I can think of two reasons for the strategy you're denigrating, and I'm sure that there are additional reasons. You can look down upon those below you, or you can look up at those above. The people who look up tend to be happier. /shrug
Phunket	Posted - 2009.12.17 21:14:00 - [40] Originally by: RJ Nobel Originally by: Hydroblunt Originally by: Ambo When it comes to trading, I've learnt that if you think your way is the only way or even the 'best' way of making isk then you're the idiot. Yes because buying 5000 shuttles for 9500 ISK and being forced to dump them at 4000 ISK after 3 weeks, is a strategy I cannot understand, hence I'm the idiot. Thank you for clarifying. And supplying me with profits. Ambo is completely correct. I can think of two reasons for the strategy you're denigrating, and I'm sure that there are additional reasons. You can look down upon those below you, or you can look up at those above. The people who look up tend to be happier. /shrug People who look up tend to follow. Dont be a lemming.

Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.17 21:19:00 - [41] Originally by: Phunket Originally by: RJ Nobel Ambo is completely correct. I can think of two reasons for the strategy you're denigrating, and I'm sure that there are additional reasons. You can look down upon those below you, or you can look up at those above. The people who look up tend to be happier. /shrug People who look up tend to follow. Dont be a lemming. People who look down tend to go off course. Don't be an idiot.
flakeys T.H.U.G L.I.F.E The Volition Cult	Posted - 2009.12.17 21:38:00 - [42] Originally by: Dretzle Omega Originally by: Phunket Originally by: RJ Nobel Ambo is completely correct. I can think of two reasons for the strategy you're denigrating, and I'm sure that there are additional reasons. You can look down upon those below you, or you can look up at those above. The people who look up tend to be happier. /shrug People who look up tend to follow. Dont be a lemming. People who look down tend to go off course. Don't be an idiot. People who look behind can't see where they r heading
SetrakDark Caldari DarkCorp Technology and Finance	Posted - 2009.12.17 21:40:00 - [43] People with 15 drinks in them can't hit the urinal. Don't get pised on.
flakeys T.H.U.G L.I.F.E The Volition Cult	Posted - 2009.12.17 21:44:00 - [44] Originally by: SetrakDark People with 15 drinks in them can't hit the urinal. Don't get pised on. I usually hit the urinal pwetty well when i have had 15 drinks .... with my head that is.
Forranz Malice. Tentative Nature	Posted - 2009.12.17 22:12:00 - [45] Man who stand on toilet high on pot.
Krathos Morpheus Legion Infernal	Posted - 2009.12.17 23:12:00 - [46] Originally by: Hydroblunt You're missing the point. I see few, if any, understand the process of walking up the buyer in trading. It's a RL strategy in daytrading. You buy regional and compete with another guy who is doing the same. When the profit margin starts dwindling, you go from regional to 1-5 jump order, hence acquiring less modules, but keep overbidding him to force him to minimal profit from reprocess values. Then you dump n him. You get profit with no hauling & collecting, while he has to haul with significantly reduced profits. Most would get too frustrated & just give up. I'm guessing some won't. I see it now, you didn't mention (or I missed) you keeping the items you got initially at lower price to dump them later on the guy, but depends various factors: First: the guy isn't smart, any decent trader would follow the ranged order with another ranged order, keeping the regional below (at least I would). Second: The picking is a grievance to him. I'm sure most ppl (at least anyone doing it right) trade on multiple items and they are going to make the trip anyway to pick other items. If picking were a grievance to me I wouldn't trade this way. Third: The increased supply. It should not be at problem to him if he is any big, they are fighting over minerals, and mineral markets are big. He can also dump the minerals on production (this days he can even throw them at a suicide business op). In resume: This could work to fight off small fishes, but it won't with any decent trader/producer. It could worth a try though, if you don't need the minerals for a production chain. As in everything else, it depends on the actual circunstances involving the event. EVEwatch Sidebar soon "It is the unofficial force ù the Jita irregulars. "
small chimp	Posted - 2009.12.18 02:31:00 - [47] Originally by: RJ Nobel Originally by: Hydroblunt Originally by: Ambo When it comes to trading, I've learnt that if you think your way is the only way or even the 'best' way of making isk then you're the idiot. Yes because buying 5000 shuttles for 9500 ISK and being forced to dump them at 4000 ISK after 3 weeks, is a strategy I cannot understand, hence I'm the idiot. Thank you for clarifying. And supplying me with profits. Ambo is completely correct. I can think of two reasons for the strategy you're denigrating, and I'm sure that there are additional reasons. You can look down upon those below you, or you can look up at those above. The people who look up tend to be happier. /shrug So can someone explain why is this a good strategy?
RJ Nobel Nobel Research and Development	Posted - 2009.12.18 07:23:00 - [48] Originally by: small chimp Originally by: RJ Nobel Originally by: Hydroblunt Originally by: Ambo When it comes to trading, I've learnt that if you think your way is the only way or even the 'best' way of making isk then you're the idiot. Yes because buying 5000 shuttles for 9500 ISK and being forced to dump them at 4000 ISK after 3 weeks, is a strategy I cannot understand, hence I'm the idiot. Thank you for clarifying. And supplying me with profits. Ambo is completely correct. I can think of two reasons for the strategy you're denigrating, and I'm sure that there are additional reasons. You can look down upon those below you, or you can look up at those above. The people who look up tend to be happier. /shrug So can someone explain why is this a good strategy? Sure, I'll give you one. Smoke and mirrors. Put up a "too good to be true" trade on an item. Fight like hell for it for awhile, then fade away. Your opponent is left with a profitable margin on an item, but little spare cash and/or attention, leaving you free to play the market on your really profitable items. And before you say "gee, no one would be silly enough to think that x million is a great profit"... read the thread. It's easy to "throw a bone" to aggressive traders and completely distract them from your true objective.
small chimp	Posted - 2009.12.18 07:47:00 - [49] Quote: Put up a "too good to be true" trade on an item. Fight like hell for it for awhile, then fade away. Your opponent is left with a profitable margin on an item, but little spare cash and/or attention, leaving you free to play the market on your really profitable items. And before you say "gee, no one would be silly enough to think that x million is a great profit"... read the thread. It's easy to "throw a bone" to aggressive traders and completely distract them from your true objective. Sounds like the reasoning for iraq war eh? Are you sure those actually where that guy's objectives?
RJ Nobel Nobel Research and Development	Posted - 2009.12.18 08:14:00 - [50] Originally by: small chimp Sounds like the reasoning for iraq war eh? Are you sure those actually where that guy's objectives? That's actually (depending on your political views) a very good analogy. As to actual intentions of the supposed opposition - I have absolutely no idea. However, I prefer to operate under the "I don't know everything, so I'll assume nothing" approach. I'm not insulting the OP's approach, just pointing out that excessive arrogance can limit your horizons. Success in Eve often depends on optimism, confidence, and rampant paranoia.

Varg Tepes Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.18 11:13:00 - [51] Lmao... So.. Another 6 month old toon is calling others for morans again I think that says A LOT more about youre IQ than us others.. Of course there will be newbies who doesnt now the trading-bizz well in the beginning (you are actually one of them yet), but why come out and cheastbeat like an idiot over it..? In EVE-terms your will still be a newbie for at least one more year.. so maybe you should step down from ure imaginary trone of trades, put ure finger up the talepipe and smell some reality before u make another post about how little u actually now about EVE! But thanks for the laughs and have a nice weekend
Johnny Yakuza	Posted - 2009.12.18 13:11:00 - [52] A variation on the OP's #2, the "Have to be the top regional" type guy. My favourite "top weenie" is the long-time player who saw some of my trader-Alt's orders and then took it upon himself to send me a "form letter" style wall of text explaining how he had all these Alts who would outbid me, or anyone else, up to or even past the mineral value on all items -- so "please F. O." because he had orders to fill with important customers. Well, I'm sure we'll all very important and very busy and very convinced we're more important than the other internet spaceship captains with their very busy and very important friends. Just another weenie that needs to "get over" himself.
small chimp	Posted - 2009.12.18 16:42:00 - [53] Originally by: RJ Nobel Originally by: small chimp Sounds like the reasoning for iraq war eh? Are you sure those actually where that guy's objectives? That's actually (depending on your political views) a very good analogy. As to actual intentions of the supposed opposition - I have absolutely no idea. However, I prefer to operate under the "I don't know everything, so I'll assume nothing" approach. I'm not insulting the OP's approach, just pointing out that excessive arrogance can limit your horizons. Success in Eve often depends on optimism, confidence, and rampant paranoia. Yuup. When I was a more newbieiesh trader I was prone to get aggro from various 'stupid traders' (currently only from one botlike trader). But now I at least think that I understand better what are they possibly trying to do. As have been said for many times many times they may be just stupid or newbies (or even more experienced people) experiencing with market.
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.18 18:04:00 - [54] Originally by: RJ Nobel Sure, I'll give you one. Smoke and mirrors. Put up a "too good to be true" trade on an item. Fight like hell for it for awhile, then fade away. Your opponent is left with a profitable margin on an item, but little spare cash and/or attention, leaving you free to play the market on your really profitable items. And before you say "gee, no one would be silly enough to think that x million is a great profit"... read the thread. It's easy to "throw a bone" to aggressive traders and completely distract them from your true objective. Meanwhile I end up dumping my shuttles (bought for 3000-4000ISK) onto him for 100% profits on a monthly basis. You know what, let me stay the idiot and make my ISK while the genius trader continues his super duper hard to decipher strategy. Please come to my region, please. I need more geniuses to show me what a moron I am.
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.18 18:07:00 - [55] Originally by: Hydroblunt I need more geniuses to show me what a moron I am. You'll never find enough geniuses to show you what a moron you are. That's what being a moron is all about! I should know.
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.18 18:43:00 - [56] Originally by: Krathos Morpheus Originally by: Hydroblunt You're missing the point. I see few, if any, understand the process of walking up the buyer in trading. It's a RL strategy in daytrading. You buy regional and compete with another guy who is doing the same. When the profit margin starts dwindling, you go from regional to 1-5 jump order, hence acquiring less modules, but keep overbidding him to force him to minimal profit from reprocess values. Then you dump n him. You get profit with no hauling & collecting, while he has to haul with significantly reduced profits. Most would get too frustrated & just give up. I'm guessing some won't. I see it now, you didn't mention (or I missed) you keeping the items you got initially at lower price to dump them later on the guy, but depends various factors: First: the guy isn't smart, any decent trader would follow the ranged order with another ranged order, keeping the regional below (at least I would). Second: The picking is a grievance to him. I'm sure most ppl (at least anyone doing it right) trade on multiple items and they are going to make the trip anyway to pick other items. If picking were a grievance to me I wouldn't trade this way. Third: The increased supply. It should not be at problem to him if he is any big, they are fighting over minerals, and mineral markets are big. He can also dump the minerals on production (this days he can even throw them at a suicide business op). In resume: This could work to fight off small fishes, but it won't with any decent trader/producer. It could worth a try though, if you don't need the minerals for a production chain. As in everything else, it depends on the actual circunstances involving the event. It depends on what is going on. Some items start getting attacked by multiple traders, where at least one to two of them are utter morons (hence my thread). Reprocessing is always the highest return, but if I can dump my modules for decent profits without leaving the station, that is a faster turnaround & cashflow. I go through this process on several modules as a cycle. They start out at 50% of reprocess value and end up going up to 90+% as the idiots attacks. I wait, dump and check the item a week later. It goes back to 50% of reprocess value.
Opportunity Costs Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.18 19:35:00 - [57] Edited by: Opportunity Costs on 18/12/2009 19:36:08 1st, you are indeed whining. Terms like 'morons' or 'idiots' delate yourself 2nd, I sometimes do it 'for the lulz'. Don't think your 0.01isk strategy is annoying him. He is still lulzing. 2.1 the 0.01 isk may be annoying aswell. Maybe he is tired of stupid 0.01wars and plays the market with shotguns 3rd, don't take it personally. Its just a game. Otherwise you would end up ragequiting because some individual manipulating some virtual numbers the reverse way you want. LOL! __________________________________ - Mining your own minerals doesnt drop your manufacturing costs! - Marginal earnings is what actually counts - Time is isk and enjoyment is isk aswell
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.18 21:10:00 - [58] Originally by: Opportunity Costs Edited by: Opportunity Costs on 18/12/2009 19:36:08 1st, you are indeed whining. Terms like 'morons' or 'idiots' delate yourself 2nd, I sometimes do it 'for the lulz'. Don't think your 0.01isk strategy is annoying him. He is still lulzing. 2.1 the 0.01 isk may be annoying aswell. Maybe he is tired of stupid 0.01wars and plays the market with shotguns 3rd, don't take it personally. Its just a game. Otherwise you would end up ragequiting because some individual manipulating some virtual numbers the reverse way you want. LOL! 1st, I am making an observation. You're just mad cause it applies to you. Your best comeback is to say that "I'm whining", which further confirms my observation 2nd, I'm sure you sometimes also like to bang your head against the wall for "lulz". Please don't do that. Instead do your amazing "lulz" trading strategies. They end up making me ISK anyway. 2.1 0.01 ISK is about preserving margins. It's just business. Hence I don't mind it at all. 3rd, I do not take it personally, but you obviously do. It is just a game. Yet you still end up looking like an idiot. But at least it's just a game. In real world it would be much worse, maybe someday you will find about graduating from the leash to helmet only
Utemetsu Caldari Humans from Earth	Posted - 2009.12.18 21:32:00 - [59] Edited by: Utemetsu on 18/12/2009 21:32:07 Successful Troll is Succsessful.
Opportunity Costs Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.19 21:22:00 - [60] roflcopter... its obvious that you are the one whining. I just don't care about it, while you do care. I think I didnt say anything offensive but sorry if I did. 'the shotgun method' is usually interesting because most of '0.01 warriors' wont follow, and you get your sale earlier than they do. and remember, when someone has 10b+ on his wallet, he couldn't care less about losing 1 million or whatever. In fact, it can be entertaining to watch the lemmings reactions or even get some hate mails and/or wardecs. LOL!! __________________________________ - Mining your own minerals doesnt drop your manufacturing costs! - Marginal earnings is what actually counts - Time is isk and enjoyment is isk aswell

Ghoest	Posted - 2009.12.19 22:55:00 - [61] The OP is a small time trader who doesnt realize that time is the most limited resource once you have a lot of capitol. Wherever you went - Here you are.
Chainfall	Posted - 2009.12.20 04:52:00 - [62] Originally by: Ghoest ...time is the most limited resource once you have a lot of capitol. This Originally by: Opportunity Costs and remember, when someone has 10b+ on his wallet, he couldn't care less about losing 1 million or whatever. In fact, it can be entertaining to watch the lemmings reactions or even get some hate mails and/or wardecs. LOL!! This Originally by: Opportunity Costs 3rd, don't take it personally. Its just a game. Otherwise you would end up ragequiting because some individual manipulating some virtual numbers the reverse way you want. LOL! and this Relating to "overbid the competition by a massive amount" I have to disagree with it being an idiotic move. I think the game changes entirely when you have reach that 'level' of isk where you really don't care what your profit margin is anymore so long as you're making some kind of return because time is such an important factor. There are people, however, that will do it to push others out or do it for entertainment. But I think sooner or later, in most cases, it comes down to a cost-benefit analysis. Is maintaining a high margin by playing the .01 isk game worth spending all day (or all someone's gaming time) babysitting orders? For me the answer is usually no. Don't get me wrong, however, the .01 isk game is extremely useful when trying to maximize margins, and it's how I made most of my starting isk, but it's just not worth it when someone already has billions of isk sunk into the market. Their gains most likely aren't coming from just that one order, but a whole series orders where overall profit is being generated. So if they take a hit on one item, whatever, their still making money on the hundreds of other orders they have.
TraderJade Caldari Secure Production Research and Trading	Posted - 2009.12.20 10:03:00 - [63] i like the people who buy all my stock and resell it, only for me to list the same stuff shortly after. they too only last a few weeks, lol
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2009.12.20 20:22:00 - [64] My favorite thing now that all my money goes into pvp is setting up buy orders for hulls. Because I tend to only want one or two of them but dont want to pay sell order price I set my price well above the next buy order. More often then not people .01 isk me and destroy their margins. It's awesome. I always end up getting my hull of course because Im perfectly willing to go right to sell order price. The great thing is that I'm only in that market for a day at most and I see people with buy orders of 10+ following me up :D It makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.22 16:01:00 - [65] Originally by: Ghoest The OP is a small time trader who doesnt realize that time is the most limited resource once you have a lot of capitol. LOL! You're just small time period who does not realize that my "small time" trading operation is extremely convenient, time efficient and extremely profitable. It can also be scaled up significantly. I used to wonder why the opportunity exists, but then I read the replies in this thread. LOL!
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.22 16:06:00 - [66] Originally by: Chainfall Relating to "overbid the competition by a massive amount" I have to disagree with it being an idiotic move. I think the game changes entirely when you have reach that 'level' of isk where you really don't care what your profit margin is anymore so long as you're making some kind of return because time is such an important factor. There are people, however, that will do it to push others out or do it for entertainment. Yup. That's why they cut their own margins to minimal. Meanwhile I just laugh & drop my order, so that they see the support disappear. They end up leaving in a week later after realizing that they are wasting their own time & ISK. Genius strategy.
Martosh Toma Gallente Fraction Investment	Posted - 2009.12.22 17:12:00 - [67] all these discusions about market order tacktics being valid or lame.. and how people should work together to earn the most. I would love to work together, I even ask people to contaact me to work out a deal. But they never want to buy my production at 95% sellorder price, nor are they willing to let me sell my stuff first. So I tend to get rid of them, away from my markets, by any means possible.
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.22 17:32:00 - [68] Lemme try my rating system out. Troll 8/10, does a very good job in drawing negative reactions, but just any reactions in general, from the player base. Made it to 3+ pages! Honest Post 0/10, posted whine thread, shows self to be hypocritically arrogant and kind of stupid, unable to see from any vantage point but his own, keeps posting despite there being no further reason to (or any reason in the first place), keeps repeating self and laughs at people trying to help him.
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.22 18:01:00 - [69] It's a whine thread, lol. It's a whine thread cause I call people idiots and make fun of them. You need mental help.
flakeys T.H.U.G L.I.F.E The Volition Cult	Posted - 2009.12.22 18:09:00 - [70] Originally by: Hydroblunt It's a whine thread, lol. It's a whine thread cause I call people idiots and make fun of them. You need mental help. You make this thread as if you wanted a discussion or info but you r not listening to what's been said.Basically you could go sit in jita and scream : i am market god , i am market god , the end result would be the same as this post. A waste of time for us and a chest beat for yourself.

SweetHoney	Posted - 2009.12.22 18:38:00 - [71] Originally by: Chainfall Originally by: Ghoest ...time is the most limited resource once you have a lot of capitol. This Relating to "overbid the competition by a massive amount" I have to disagree with it being an idiotic move. I think the game changes entirely when you have reach that 'level' of isk where you really don't care what your profit margin is anymore so long as you're making some kind of return because time is such an important factor. There are people, however, that will do it to push others out or do it for entertainment. But I think sooner or later, in most cases, it comes down to a cost-benefit analysis. Is maintaining a high margin by playing the .01 isk game worth spending all day (or all someone's gaming time) babysitting orders? For me the answer is usually no. Don't get me wrong, however, the .01 isk game is extremely useful when trying to maximize margins, and it's how I made most of my starting isk, but it's just not worth it when someone already has billions of isk sunk into the market. Their gains most likely aren't coming from just that one order, but a whole series orders where overall profit is being generated. So if they take a hit on one item, whatever, their still making money on the hundreds of other orders they have. this ! One more thing.. After 800+ buy/sell orders you just wont care .01 ing anymore. If do care then you will burn out very fast. but I'm just a idiot trader who falls into all 3 categories.
Opportunity Costs Caldari	Posted - 2009.12.22 18:40:00 - [72] Originally by: Hydroblunt Originally by: Chainfall Relating to "overbid the competition by a massive amount" I have to disagree with it being an idiotic move. I think the game changes entirely when you have reach that 'level' of isk where you really don't care what your profit margin is anymore so long as you're making some kind of return because time is such an important factor. There are people, however, that will do it to push others out or do it for entertainment. Yup. That's why they cut their own margins to minimal. Meanwhile I just laugh & drop my order, so that they see the support disappear. They end up leaving in a week later after realizing that they are wasting their own time & ISK. Genius strategy. but you are wasting your time and ISK aswell. owned __________________________________ - Mining your own minerals doesnt drop your manufacturing costs! - Marginal earnings is what actually counts - Time is isk and enjoyment is isk aswell
Ivorian	Posted - 2009.12.23 08:01:00 - [73] 4/10. Nice to ready, but not really funny. You are way to focused into your own view of thinks. And it seems you dont even read what others try to tell you. Hell, i can buy stuff for 1/1000 and even 1/10.000 of the reprocess value. Just becauce some dont care and only want to sell the stuff really fast. But are these player idiots? NO. They just dont care for the market or for refining and just want the ISK really fast to go on with whatever they do. Just take advantage of this. And if someone is overbidding or undercutting you with prices, abuse it. It took you already long time to notice to sell him the shuttles that you can buy/produce cheaper than his buy orders. I wouldnt even whine on the forum becauce of this. This way you look like an idiot for not abusing it right away . Just be happy that you found someone who is printing ISK for you. And honestly. With your playtime of barly 6 month, you dont know alot of this game. There are alot more factors that impact into the reasons for these "other idiots" to do, what they do and how they do it. And just becauce you dont know their reasons, it does not mean that they are all idiots.
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.23 15:33:00 - [74] Edited by: Hydroblunt on 23/12/2009 15:33:47 Originally by: Opportunity Costs Originally by: Hydroblunt Originally by: Chainfall Relating to "overbid the competition by a massive amount" I have to disagree with it being an idiotic move. I think the game changes entirely when you have reach that 'level' of isk where you really don't care what your profit margin is anymore so long as you're making some kind of return because time is such an important factor. There are people, however, that will do it to push others out or do it for entertainment. Yup. That's why they cut their own margins to minimal. Meanwhile I just laugh & drop my order, so that they see the support disappear. They end up leaving in a week later after realizing that they are wasting their own time & ISK. Genius strategy. but you are wasting your time and ISK aswell. owned I think it's gonna be a while before you make it to helmet only. My margins are always intact and never less than 20% unless it's pure minerals.
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.23 15:43:00 - [75] Originally by: Ivorian Edited by: Ivorian on 23/12/2009 12:48:08 4/10. Nice to read, but not really funny. You are way to focused into your own view of thinks. And it seems you dont even read what others try to tell you. Hell, i can buy stuff for 1/1000 and even 1/10.000 of the reprocess value. Just becauce some dont care and only want to sell the stuff really fast. But are these player idiots? NO. They just dont care for the market or for refining and just want the ISK really fast to go on with whatever they do. Just take advantage of this. And if someone is overbidding or undercutting you with prices, abuse it. It took you already long time to notice to sell him the shuttles that you can buy/produce cheaper than his buy orders. I wouldnt even whine on the forum becauce of this. This way you look like an idiot for not abusing it right away . Just be happy that you found someone who is printing ISK for you. And honestly. With your playtime of barly 6 month, you dont know alot of this game. There are alot more factors that impact into the reasons for these "other idiots" to do, what they do and how they do it. And just becauce you dont know their reasons, it does not mean that they are all idiots. Honestly, you need basic reading comprehension. It's really not a wonder why most of MD is considered a joke. I guess now I understand why so many of you fall for the ridiculously obvious scams on here.
boss gt5	Posted - 2009.12.23 18:04:00 - [76] some interesting points in this thread for me as i am just getting into regional trading myself. I'm quite new to it and probably not very efficient with my time atm but hope to learn from my mistakes and by reading threads like this. i have found quite a lot of things going cheap that i can make good profit on, currently bidding on a module at 600k which are selling quite well at around 2m. I have a few decent earners like that going, but only a few atm :) i do get into the 0.01 wars a bit but i see its the only way im gonna get going, i suppose i gotta start somewhere.. i have now got market trading to level 5 which im finding quite useful as i can sell anything that is located in the region but i have found this is better with some modules than others.. for example, turrets and launchers, i find i can make more money on these if i go and pick them up and sell them in bulk, i have a frig optimized for cargo space and speed to do this and usually do it on autopilot while im playing on my main.. if im selling mods from mid slots though these usually sell ok 1 at a time so i can sell them remotely but my trade slots fill up quite fast (i have 137 i think) in recent days ive thought it might be better to do a bit of both remote selling as well as going to gather the things up depending on the item and distance so i can find a good balance.. have picked up some good tips in thsi thread but would welcome any further advice or opinions on my strategies as i am only just starting out so could probably doing things better..
Ghoest	Posted - 2009.12.23 18:47:00 - [77] Originally by: Hydroblunt Originally by: Ghoest The OP is a small time trader who doesnt realize that time is the most limited resource once you have a lot of capitol. LOL! You're just small time period who does not realize that my "small time" trading operation is extremely convenient, time efficient and extremely profitable. It can also be scaled up significantly. I used to wonder why the opportunity exists, but then I read the replies in this thread. LOL! I was wrong - youre a clueless noob. Wherever you went - Here you are.
SweetHoney	Posted - 2009.12.23 19:22:00 - [78] Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Hydroblunt Originally by: Ghoest The OP is a small time trader who doesnt realize that time is the most limited resource once you have a lot of capitol. LOL! You're just small time period who does not realize that my "small time" trading operation is extremely convenient, time efficient and extremely profitable. It can also be scaled up significantly. I used to wonder why the opportunity exists, but then I read the replies in this thread. LOL! I was wrong - youre a clueless noob. ^^ agreed
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.24 21:25:00 - [79] Originally by: Ghoest Originally by: Hydroblunt Originally by: Ghoest The OP is a small time trader who doesnt realize that time is the most limited resource once you have a lot of capitol. LOL! You're just small time period who does not realize that my "small time" trading operation is extremely convenient, time efficient and extremely profitable. It can also be scaled up significantly. I used to wonder why the opportunity exists, but then I read the replies in this thread. LOL! I was wrong - youre a clueless noob. Yup I'm such a clueless noob that I make enough ISK to not beg for loans from the geniuses of this forum. Or maybe you're just an idiot.
Kazuo Ishiguro House of Marbles	Posted - 2009.12.24 23:55:00 - [80] Originally by: Ambo Originally by: Angus McSpork Originally by: Ambo When it comes to trading, I've learnt that if you think your way is the only way or even the 'best' way of making isk then you're the idiot. To be honest that's a pretty fair statement about any of life's endeavors. hehe, very true I'll settle for 'worst way, except for all the others I've tried'. --- 34.4:1 mineral compression

gallchecker	Posted - 2009.12.25 07:22:00 - [81] he's right about a few things tbh. The elitists from md do seem to fall for as many scams as the day1 noob reading jita local for example except on a much bigger scale. Oh and why do you need to beg for loans to each other when money is so VERY easy to make hand over fist in this game even on the billions level? So maybe he's a lot to learn but those two points already put him streets ahead of the rest of ya :)
Scoutt2	Posted - 2009.12.25 11:30:00 - [82] Originally by: Hydroblunt Edited by: Hydroblunt on 16/12/2009 17:47:42 I have been playing EvE since July, this is my original account. I started a trading alt around late July, which has essentially become my main ISK generator. I'm no trading god, but I do aight, think I have made a few bil by now. My strategy is pretty simple, I do some basic station trading of high turnover items, but the bulk of my strategy is buying & reprocessing modules & noob ships in a 1 range radius. I get 99.5% efficiency with this account and just pass via corp hangar. Over the months I have encountered some trading competitors that make me scratch my head. I end up labeling them as idiots, who barely scored above the mental ******ation level on the IQ test. Here are the general types. 1) The "overbid the competition by a massive amount, cutting the margin to very low levels" guy. He obviously fails to realize that his own margins are cut as well. Yeah yeah yeah, he may have some super secret strategy for better margins, but why make them smaller rather than larger. I welcome you doing the $0.01 ISK game, as both you and I will get what we want in spurts and make our ISK. But no, this idiot thinks he doing some market power move. I usually end up annoying them via the 0.01ISK to the point where they give up or end up overbidding, losing ISK and/or time, and sometimes selling the items back to me at a lower bid. 2) The "have to be top bid regional trader". This is obviously a new trading player with a very false belief of being some kind of genius by using a regional order. Now region trading is not a bad concept, but these morons completely fail to realize that chasing the top bid position in the whole region makes their margins completely not worth the regional haul or re-selling the items & the long delay in cash flow. Meanwhile, they overpay significantly for these items in systems where they could have gotten them for half the price or less. These guys rarely last past a week. 3) Kinda related to the first two but really deserves its own category. The "super duper want to corner the shuttle market trader". I wait with excitement for these guys and a new one has appeared every month. I would not even trade shuttles if it was not for these guys. He comes in and puts in a 5-10 jump or regional buy order for shuttles at a price sometimes 3 times larger than then current bid (usually mine). I guess a kerosene lamp lit up in his head and he thought that shuttles, being possibly the highest turnover item in EvE, would be easy ISK. And why watch the buying cost, just overwhelm everyone with a high buy price and sell even higher cause, like, just monopolize the market, RAWR! Well, eventually reality hits and the fool gets hit with a few large order from manufacturers in low traffic systems. This is after I dump my inventory to them at a nice profit. These dodos actually last about two weeks, as they wait for their sell orders to get filled and convince themselves that "Hey, shuttles MUST sell, everyone NEEDS shuttles". 4) Myself. Who just yesterday bought 5000 Large Lead charges for $241million ISK. I learned, the hard way, why players put these up for 100 times the market price at trading hubs. I felt so dumb after that I started wondering whether the short yellow bus was going to drive up to my house. Luckily, the guy whom I bought this from sent me back the ISK after I congratulated it him on the score. Special shout out to the trader who always ends his buy price with .69 After reading your post, I've finally realized what an idiot I've been. I will stop doing all those things right away.
Ivorian	Posted - 2009.12.25 14:22:00 - [83] Originally by: Hydroblunt Honestly, you need basic reading comprehension. It's really not a wonder why most of MD is considered a joke. I guess now I understand why so many of you fall for the ridiculously obvious scams on here. Correct me if i am wrong. But you try to say that everyone, who is not playing by your style, is an idiot. Without knowing their reasons or even listening to anyone. And you call yourself even an idiot for falling for a scam. Do you really think, that i care about some stupid 0.01 games with 250 open buy orders? This is eating way to much time. Its already hard to update the prices once a day. I am not doing full time trading. I dont even have the time for this. I cant even get this much ISK to make this time worth it :). But i have to ask you one think. Why do you call others, who dont work like you do, idiots, when you yourself waste so much money with only 99.5% efficiency in reprocessing? And unless you have a high standing character (which i doubt) you are wasting even more to the corp where you reprocess. ;)
SetrakDark Caldari DarkCorp Technology and Finance	Posted - 2009.12.25 14:27:00 - [84] Quit getting trolled.
Ivorian	Posted - 2009.12.25 14:59:00 - [85] Just one more quote that fit really well: "Whenever a trader thinks his trade is 100% right, he is 110% wrong" Not much have changed in 4 years :).
Tesal	Posted - 2009.12.26 04:43:00 - [86] I used to manage regional buy orders in 6 regions on junk salvage for 9 months straight and eventually expanded to 12 regions. I started with a shuttle and a dream. Now look at me!!! Oh god I am such a failure. never stop posting...with alts. Please do not use inappropriate language in your sig. Zymurgist
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.28 20:21:00 - [87] Originally by: Ivorian Originally by: Hydroblunt But i have to ask you one think. Why do you call others, who dont work like you do, idiots, when you yourself waste so much money with only 99.5% efficiency in reprocessing? And unless you have a high standing character (which i doubt) you are wasting even more to the corp where you reprocess. ;) Actually I pay almost 0% on the station where I reprocess, but nice try. And I have no reason to rush for Scrapmetal reproc for a 0.5% difference. I work on 20%+ margins, with many items in the 100%+ margin territory. I've run into your type before when I first started and ran him out of the region in two weeks by always topping his overbids after he refused to cooperate. The funny part is that he told me to "bring it on" before he got whooped. You are really dense. Either way, you're gonna have to update your orders. Since you do not log in regularly, you will always be overbid most of the time. So why push up the bid and cut your own margins? You're not gonna scare anyone away, especially the $0.01 bidders. Like I said, I've run into your type before and he left the region after realizing he is wasting his time and ISK in fees. It takes me no more than 10 minutes to update 120 buy orders. Apparently you are very slow if that is such a big chunk of time. I guess that explains the helmet you have to wear. Too funny. Once again, I'm no longer surprise so many of you keep falling for obvious scams.
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.28 20:28:00 - [88] Originally by: Ivorian Just one more quote that fit really well: "Whenever a trader thinks his trade is 100% right, he is 110% wrong" Not much have changed in 4 years :). LOL, you're such a clown! It's funny how clueless you are.
Martosh Toma Gallente Fraction Investment	Posted - 2009.12.28 20:50:00 - [89] I will try once with a presentation of my situation. - I (have someone) produce roughly 1/3 of the region wide demand on 3 products, mostly still from pre dominion stocks, I want to sell my stock every week/month. - I log on once a day to alter my order prices or ut up new stock for sale on average. - I care absolutely 0 for how much profit other people make. - I care a lot about my own profit and seek to maximize it against a minimum work load. - I can sell them to open buy orders currently for a 100% margin, but if I fill those they drop like a rock to a roughly 10% margin - I can set up a competetative sell order against roughly 300% margin or more but within minutes someone will .01 isk me and I will sell 0 stock. I think I know reasonebly well how to maximize my profit, but I wonder how one of the people complaining everyone should .01 isk for maximum profit would handle this within my constraints. PS should you be intrested in buying all my production at a for me reasoneble price mail me in game (I refund cspa charges to serious contacts)
Ivorian	Posted - 2009.12.28 23:29:00 - [90] Originally by: Hydroblunt Originally by: Ivorian Just one more quote that fit really well: "Whenever a trader thinks his trade is 100% right, he is 110% wrong" Not much have changed in 4 years :). LOL, you're such a clown! It's funny how clueless you are. Just becauce i quote your own sig? Shrug. But explain me one thing that i want to know (really). How do you get the standing for the reprossess? You need at least a Standing of 6.0 so you dont have to pay anything to the corp. You dont have the standing by yourself.

Breaker77 Gallente Reclamation Industries	Posted - 2009.12.28 23:37:00 - [91] Originally by: Ivorian You need at least a Standing of 6.0 so you dont have to pay anything to the corp. You dont have the standing by yourself. Just another wannabe 7 yr old (IRL) alt that doesn't have the balls to post with his main.
Ivorian	Posted - 2009.12.29 01:50:00 - [92] Originally by: Breaker77 Originally by: Ivorian You need at least a Standing of 6.0 so you dont have to pay anything to the corp. You dont have the standing by yourself. Just another wannabe 7 yr old (IRL) alt that doesn't have the balls to post with his main. no, i doubt it. His arguments are logical and understandable. Even if he cant accept other opinions ;).
Hydroblunt Gallente Puff Monkeys Inc	Posted - 2009.12.29 17:20:00 - [93] Originally by: Ivorian Originally by: Hydroblunt Originally by: Ivorian Just one more quote that fit really well: "Whenever a trader thinks his trade is 100% right, he is 110% wrong" Not much have changed in 4 years :). LOL, you're such a clown! It's funny how clueless you are. Just becauce i quote your own sig? Shrug. But explain me one thing that i want to know (really). How do you get the standing for the reprossess? You need at least a Standing of 6.0 so you dont have to pay anything to the corp. You dont have the standing by yourself. I don't have a sig, genius. You're thinking of someone else. You apparently get confused easily. I do not pay anything to the station, dumbo. Since you think you're so smart, you go figure it out.


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