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Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 1 post(s) |
ElQuirko
Protus Correction Facility Inc.
748
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Posted - 2012.06.20 14:44:00 -
[31] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:It's not difficult for me to understand, but for your typical hi sec AFK while doing homework guy it will be 
"Here at the EVE-O forums we're better than you, and we know it."
CISPA - Readin' your secret corptheft mails since 2012 |
Savage Angel
Garoun Investment Bank
Gallente Federation
112
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Posted - 2012.06.20 15:31:00 -
[32] - Quote
The smaller ships will use ore compression to have more effective room. The high yield ones use all of their space and electronics to mount the 3rd laser, so cannot have the ore compressors, thus an uncompressed hold. Nothing unusual about it. |
Rico Minali
Sons Of 0din
Fatal Ascension
797
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Posted - 2012.06.20 15:37:00 -
[33] - Quote
It is simply making you choose between a well tanked lower isk/hour ship or a high isk/hour ship with a weak tank and therefore vulnerable.
It is simple risk Vs reward. Hisec will still be full of untanked barges and exhumers though and the carebears will still complain that their ships are being ganked even though they are being given this by CCP. It wont be enough for the carebears.
Trust me, I almost know what I'm doing. |
Corina Jarr
Spazzoid Enterprises
Purpose Built
832
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Posted - 2012.06.20 15:42:00 -
[34] - Quote
I can answer this with some RL and IU explanationings.
Armor is rather small in size (mere millimeters in many cases today). Shield generators are also small in size.
This is evident by frigs having greater armor and shields than the barges.
Mining equipment takes up a huge amount of space though. The Hulk has a lot of mining equipment. The Retriever has less, and this can have more ore space relative to the size of the ship. Same with the Proc.
Also, the size differences between each stage is not that different.
Put this together with the term "balance" and there is enough to accept the changes as a force for god in the universe, so that miners will have options (and still not take them, but then even CCP can say HTFU), and gankers can have a minor challenge (would be even betetr if folks would mine aligned, but that would be work... such an evil term ) |
Viktor Fyretracker
Emminent Terraforming
7
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Posted - 2012.06.20 15:47:00 -
[35] - Quote
in simple to understand car terms then.
Hulk is like a Ferrari, it does one thing and does it really fast but has no trunk and shatters on impact with anything.
Retriever is more like a mid sized sedan with a turbo. Has some trunk, still is pretty fast and can take a few hits.
Procurer is like that Toyota Hilux from Top Gear, slow but can take an unholy beating. |
Amke
Chode Extravaganza
0
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Posted - 2012.06.20 15:58:00 -
[36] - Quote
I'm hoping the barge models all get redesigned, they don't match the new ore ships at the moment. |
Dorian Wylde
Imperial Academy
Amarr Empire
108
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Posted - 2012.06.20 16:02:00 -
[37] - Quote
highonpop wrote:Just seems to me that this buff is going to take away the need to ever even purchase a Hulk. The high price on them wouldnt be worth the slightly higher yield. Especially since they will be easier to blow up than a retriever and they are like more than 10x the cost.,
Because the prices are going to be exactly the same after the patch, despite new demand. |
Steveir
Hagukure
Empire Industry
41
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Posted - 2012.06.20 16:11:00 -
[38] - Quote
Can we assume that we will now have one cargo space for mining crystals and one cargo space for ore?
If this is the case, I willl be an excited happy miner; if not I may have to stage a protest in Goon space - wherever the hell that is :) |
baltec1
1517
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Posted - 2012.06.20 16:23:00 -
[39] - Quote
Corina Jarr wrote:
Armor is rather small in size (mere millimeters in many cases today). Shield generators are also small in size.
This is evident by frigs having greater armor and shields than the barges.
The hulk gets the same base EHP as a heavy assault ship. |
Louise Antwoord
Federal Navy Academy
Gallente Federation
0
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Posted - 2012.06.20 17:08:00 -
[40] - Quote
masternerdguy wrote:Andoria Thara wrote:masternerdguy wrote:Andoria Thara wrote:Barges will NO LONGER BE STEPPING STONES.
All barges will be situational.
All barges are getting a yield increase.
Again, All barges will be equivalent, but situational. Situational awareness? Multiple ships for multiple jobs? Madness! Only the top tier of the hi sec grinders will comprehend that. It's not that difficult to understand. It's like 3 variants of 1 barge, each focusing one of the three main points: Cargo Space, Yield, Tank (EHP) I wouldn't be surprised if they grouped all T1 barges together into one varient list. It's not difficult for me to understand, but for your typical hi sec AFK while doing homework guy it will be
http://cdn.memegenerator.net/instances/400x/22297420.jpg |
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Plaude Pollard
Crimson Cartel
42
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Posted - 2012.06.20 17:19:00 -
[41] - Quote
The way I read it, Procurer/Skiff will have BS-like tanks, but not much of a yield-bonus (still more yield than a Rokh, though). Retriever/Mackinaw will have more yield, but less tank (still getting a bigger tank than they have now). Covetor/Hulk will be given little to no tank-buff, but will be excellent yield-optimized mining-ships.
The Dev-Blog even points out what situations the ships will be suited best for:
Procurer and Skiff will be ideal for small operations in hostile environments where no Orca or protection is available.
Retriever and Mackinaw will be ideal for larger operations in hostile environments where an Orca and a bit of protection is available.
Covetor and Hulk will be ideal for large operations where several Orcas and a fleet of defending ships are ready to protect the fleet, and where yield is all that matters.
Nothing confusing about the new Mining Barges. |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
322
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Posted - 2012.06.20 17:34:00 -
[42] - Quote
How do cargo expanders work in conjunction with ore bays?
What about cargohold optimization rigs? Do they have any affect on ore bays?
If, for example, cargo expanders don't affect ore bays at all, but only affect cargo holds themselves (which I presume will be tiny on these ships to hold mining crystals) it'll be easier to justify putting say a damage control in one of the lows...or a MLU depending on what you need.
I don't own an Orca (one account only), so I have no idea how these modules affect things when you have both kinds of cargo holds.
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Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
43
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Posted - 2012.06.20 17:39:00 -
[43] - Quote
Ana Vyr wrote:How do cargo expanders work in conjunction with ore bays?
Cargo mods and rigs only affect your main cargo hold.
They don't affect ore bays, maintenance bays, corp hangars, or drone bays. |
Ana Vyr
Vyral Technologies
322
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Posted - 2012.06.20 17:41:00 -
[44] - Quote
Andoria Thara wrote:Ana Vyr wrote:How do cargo expanders work in conjunction with ore bays?
Cargo mods and rigs only affect your main cargo hold. They don't affect ore bays, maintenance bays, corp hangars, or drone bays.
Excellent, so they'll be useless on these new ships. I am trying not to drool over these new mining ship ideas; they sound fantastic. |
baltec1
1519
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:09:00 -
[45] - Quote
Ana Vyr wrote:Andoria Thara wrote:Ana Vyr wrote:How do cargo expanders work in conjunction with ore bays?
Cargo mods and rigs only affect your main cargo hold. They don't affect ore bays, maintenance bays, corp hangars, or drone bays. Excellent, so they'll be useless on these new ships. I am trying not to drool over these new mining ship ideas; they sound fantastic.
Shift the ore into the cargo hold. Granted it depends on how big their cargo hold is going to be but then, a massive hold for the ore is what a mack is for |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
362
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:20:00 -
[46] - Quote
Plaude Pollard wrote:Procurer and Skiff will be ideal for small operations in hostile environments where no Orca or protection is available.
Retriever and Mackinaw will be ideal for larger operations in hostile environments where an Orca and a bit of protection is available.
Covetor and Hulk will be ideal for large operations where several Orcas and a fleet of defending ships are ready to protect the fleet, and where yield is all that matters.
No, Ret and Mack will have the largest ore bays, meaning the Orca isn't neccesarily needed; they're specialized for the solo miner. The Proc and Skiff will have the mid-sized ore bay and so should be used with an Orca/transports; they're specialized for the paranoid (so tank your Orca too!) Hulk and Covetor have small ore bays and are specialized for fleet ops; bring your Orca and all his industrial friends.
Nothing Found |
Joe Hinken
Cetan Consortium
3
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:21:00 -
[47] - Quote
Maybe I missed it, but have they mentioned if the Skiff will still have its Mercoxit bonus, and the Mack its ice bonus? |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
362
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
Joe Hinken wrote:Maybe I missed it, but have they mentioned if the Skiff will still have its Mercoxit bonus, and the Mack its ice bonus?
No mention of any of that. They'll likely be repurposed slightly into their new roles.
Nothing Found |
Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
154
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:23:00 -
[49] - Quote
Ohanka wrote:Andoria Thara wrote:Barges will NO LONGER BE STEPPING STONES.
All barges will be situational.
All barges are getting a yield increase.
Again, All barges will be equivalent, but situational. except the procurer, which will still be as useless as ever.
I'm gonna fly a procurer to do my level 3 missions, and mine while my hobgoblin I kills everything.
[edit]
I heard something about size vs. ore hold and tank, and I agree. I hope CCP makes the retriever a bit bigger. Of course part of that extra HP and ore hold could be attributed to less mining equipment on board.
-á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters
i'm strangely comfortable with it"
-Mittens |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
362
|
Posted - 2012.06.20 18:26:00 -
[50] - Quote
Reaver Glitterstim wrote:I'm gonna fly a procurer to do my level 3 missions, and mine while my hobgoblin I kills everything.
Depending on the size of its drone bay and the slot layout, this is as good a reason as any to train Mining Barge up, could be hilarious.
Nothing Found |
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Reaver Glitterstim
Dromedaworks inc
154
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:29:00 -
[51] - Quote
Joe Hinken wrote:Maybe I missed it, but have they mentioned if the Skiff will still have its Mercoxit bonus, and the Mack its ice bonus?
I'm guessing and hoping that the mackinaw will just be an ice-bonus barge with a 27k m3 ore/ice hold. If that were the case, I could technically use it to mine regular ore. And while I'm doing that, somebody else will be AFKing for a half hour at a time while his mackinaw's huge ice hold slowly (actually rather expediently) fills up. And I'll be fine with that.
-á"The Mittani: Hated By Badposters
i'm strangely comfortable with it"
-Mittens |
Vincent Athena
V.I.C.E.
Comic Mischief
745
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:33:00 -
[52] - Quote
highonpop wrote:(Ignore the ass hat that posted first, I'm asking a genuine question here)
I can understand the buffer to mining yield. But the Tank and Ore hold is baffling to me.
Why should a retriever, that is half the size (give or take) of a hulk have MORE tank and MORE Ore bay? Its smaller. The covetor and Hulk are the size they are for a reason.
Bigger barge = more space
I like the fact they will be more difficult targets now. Ganking is fun, but a bit too easy sometimes.
Just for the record, i have an industrial alt that regularly flies a Hulk, and I even do a little mining on this toon sometimes too. I'm actually curious about this buff since It will directly affect me.
I assume the barge with more cargo space will have a lower bonus to mining. So it must have less built in equipment to boost strip yield, leaving room for ore. Also my guess is after the buff all 3 barges will be re-done to be close to the same overall size and all will run 3 strips.
http://vincentoneve.wordpress.com/ |
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
43
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:35:00 -
[53] - Quote
Ana Vyr wrote:
Excellent, so they'll be useless on these new ships. I am trying not to drool over these new mining ship ideas; they sound fantastic.
Yes, they'll be useless. Maybe 99% of highsec miners will use something different than cargo rigs now.
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Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
362
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:37:00 -
[54] - Quote
Andoria Thara wrote:Yes, they'll be useless. Maybe 99% of highsec miners will use something different than cargo rigs now.
No, as baltec1 has pointed out before, the high-sec miner is an idiot and will use cargo expanders for their normal cargo bay in order to expand their ore bay slightly. This reduces the hull points of the ship which has the side effect of enabling easier ganks.
vOv
Nothing Found |
Wille Sanara
Felador night Corp
5
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Posted - 2012.06.20 18:52:00 -
[55] - Quote
Well, in case CCP will care to read this and respond, I have a question.
What do you plan to do with the Exhumer skill bonuses? I mean those on Skiff making it awesome for mercoxit, the one on Mackinaw making it awesome for Ice and the one on Hulk making it awesome for other ores. Do you want to remove them, tweak them or what? You know, there are people that trained Exhumers V basically because its only thing that makes Mercoxit mining worth something. And I kinda like that every exhumer has its own role. I dont like giving them all the same purpose. |
Andoria Thara
Fallen Avatars
44
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Posted - 2012.06.20 19:03:00 -
[56] - Quote
Karl Hobb wrote:Andoria Thara wrote:Yes, they'll be useless. Maybe 99% of highsec miners will use something different than cargo rigs now. No, as baltec1 has pointed out before, the high-sec miner is an idiot and will use cargo expanders for their normal cargo bay in order to expand their ore bay slightly. This reduces the hull points of the ship which has the side effect of enabling easier ganks. vOv
Sadly, I'd have to agree. Although it is a huge generalization, I do know a few highsec miners who get killmails all the time from wannabe gankers. But about the idiot miners, I just don't understand the mentality. Even after showing one of them a decent fit, they come back with "well that won't stop a group of gankers." So they continue to fit max yield and cargo. |
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CCP Ytterbium
C C P
C C P Alliance
761
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Posted - 2012.06.20 19:08:00 -
[57] - Quote
Oink! |
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Wille Sanara
Felador night Corp
5
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Posted - 2012.06.20 19:23:00 -
[58] - Quote
Thanks very much sir! |
baltec1
1522
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Posted - 2012.06.20 19:24:00 -
[59] - Quote
Instantly thought of this |
Karl Hobb
Imperial Margarine
362
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Posted - 2012.06.20 19:27:00 -
[60] - Quote
In the dev blog you speak about bringing up the yield of these ships to be "in line" with the Hulk. I'm assuming these would be new role bonuses considering the current high slot layout? Or are we talking additional high slots?
While I'm being a pain (every player's right) I was wondering if that frigate will have a higher yield than, say, a T1 cruiser loaded down with Miner IIs?
Nothing Found |
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