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U.S Dollars VS Euros. We are paying more to play the same game.

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Brian Detaah	Posted - 2004.11.17 14:20:00 - [181] Dude, Im not talking (much) politics. That just basic international economics and a bit of common knowledge. If you feel it has political implications.... ------------------------------------------------ `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.' `The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.' `The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's all.'
Brian Detaah	Posted - 2004.11.17 14:20:00 - [182] Dude, Im not talking (much) politics. That just basic international economics and a bit of common knowledge. If you feel it has political implications.... ------------------------------------------------ `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.' `The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.' `The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's all.'
DeerHunter GE	Posted - 2004.11.17 14:23:00 - [183] Edited by: DeerHunter GE on 17/11/2004 14:26:43 The political thing i mentioned was meant for the others who posted before you....it was not for you... i edited my post... Don't ask "can i have your stuff" because i'll give it to everybody else than you!
DeerHunter GE	Posted - 2004.11.17 14:23:00 - [184] Edited by: DeerHunter GE on 17/11/2004 14:26:43 The political thing i mentioned was meant for the others who posted before you....it was not for you... i edited my post... Don't ask "can i have your stuff" because i'll give it to everybody else than you!
Jobby	Posted - 2004.11.17 14:26:00 - [185] Wait till you move from Europe to the US and change all your payment details accordingly, then continue to get charged at European rates. That'll annoy you as much as it is me.
Jobby	Posted - 2004.11.17 14:26:00 - [186] Wait till you move from Europe to the US and change all your payment details accordingly, then continue to get charged at European rates. That'll annoy you as much as it is me.
Brian Detaah	Posted - 2004.11.17 14:36:00 - [187] Edited by: Brian Detaah on 17/11/2004 14:46:24 Originally by: Harisdrop You are only addressing trade. Dont worry about our economy we have what 2% intrest rate.. The china area is hoping the great big turn around. What they will have is the hurt of Fair Tax Bush will instate this and create a country that competes fairly. Everything is taxed and no income tax. Mate, that has to be the dumbest taxproposal ever (its basically that all taxation should be consumption taxes, creating a highly regressive taxstructure (poor people dont invest much)). I dont have the time or the energy to discuss the ideas of american conservative think-tanks, but its doesnt really matter to my argument how you construct your taxstructure (unless that reform holds a major tax hike in revenue terms, which would mean a HUGE tax increase on the median american and the whole middel class). But since we are talking exchange rates, trade matters and if we are talking balance of payments (BoP) deficites and a crisis resulting from BoP deficits, then that 2% interest rate is not going to be around for long (btw, its not a good sign when running a huge deficit (expansive fiscal policy), very low interest rate (expansive monetary policy) and still not anywhere near full employment). Edit: I read the taxproposal a bit more and it just seems to involve removing the income tax, but not the payroll tax (which finances social security) which is rather regressive. Its not only a bad proposal, its also, well not lying, but misleading. ------------------------------------------------ `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.' `The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.' `The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's all.'
Brian Detaah	Posted - 2004.11.17 14:36:00 - [188] Edited by: Brian Detaah on 17/11/2004 14:46:24 Originally by: Harisdrop You are only addressing trade. Dont worry about our economy we have what 2% intrest rate.. The china area is hoping the great big turn around. What they will have is the hurt of Fair Tax Bush will instate this and create a country that competes fairly. Everything is taxed and no income tax. Mate, that has to be the dumbest taxproposal ever (its basically that all taxation should be consumption taxes, creating a highly regressive taxstructure (poor people dont invest much)). I dont have the time or the energy to discuss the ideas of american conservative think-tanks, but its doesnt really matter to my argument how you construct your taxstructure (unless that reform holds a major tax hike in revenue terms, which would mean a HUGE tax increase on the median american and the whole middel class). But since we are talking exchange rates, trade matters and if we are talking balance of payments (BoP) deficites and a crisis resulting from BoP deficits, then that 2% interest rate is not going to be around for long (btw, its not a good sign when running a huge deficit (expansive fiscal policy), very low interest rate (expansive monetary policy) and still not anywhere near full employment). Edit: I read the taxproposal a bit more and it just seems to involve removing the income tax, but not the payroll tax (which finances social security) which is rather regressive. Its not only a bad proposal, its also, well not lying, but misleading. ------------------------------------------------ `When I use a word,' Humpty Dumpty said in rather a scornful tone, `it means just what I choose it to mean -- neither more nor less.' `The question is,' said Alice, `whether you can make words mean so many different things.' `The question is,' said Humpty Dumpty, `which is to be master - - that's all.'
Avon	Posted - 2004.11.17 14:40:00 - [189] Edited by: Avon on 17/11/2004 14:43:34 I can't believe this is so hard to understand. The pricing change (and it was a change) came about because of the falling value of the dollar and CCP having to pass VAT charges on to EU members. At the time of the change 15€ was worth around 20% more than $15, and that was the same as the applied VAT rate for euro subscribers. If everyone paid in the same currency, players who reside within the boundries of the EU would have to add 20% to their monthly bill to pay the VAT. As the € vs $ rate has changed the margin between the prices has exceeded 20%, but expecting CCP to change the billing price constantly to account for these changes is unresonable. The admin cost would probably exceed the potential savings anyway. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Avon	Posted - 2004.11.17 14:40:00 - [190] Edited by: Avon on 17/11/2004 14:43:34 I can't believe this is so hard to understand. The pricing change (and it was a change) came about because of the falling value of the dollar and CCP having to pass VAT charges on to EU members. At the time of the change 15€ was worth around 20% more than $15, and that was the same as the applied VAT rate for euro subscribers. If everyone paid in the same currency, players who reside within the boundries of the EU would have to add 20% to their monthly bill to pay the VAT. As the € vs $ rate has changed the margin between the prices has exceeded 20%, but expecting CCP to change the billing price constantly to account for these changes is unresonable. The admin cost would probably exceed the potential savings anyway. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
DeerHunter GE	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:18:00 - [191] Edited by: DeerHunter GE on 17/11/2004 15:22:25 Avon, i dont care about the vat or other problems. I expect to pay the same amount like others. Iam very unhappy about the fact that i have to pay 14.95Ç a month while US residents pay for the same product 14.95 USD. I demand to be charged in USD like before! It was possible and it should be possible again! "Only as an side note". Until first of Nevember 2003 i was billed in USD not in Ç. Aterwards they charged me in Ç. I dont care about the why's for real...i feel that iam already very often in charge to be "patient" with CCP's behauviour for this and that.... even if i understand the reason for some decisions its not an must for me to accept the decision..... Comment: Some or very many internet services all over the world have the same pricing for all customers, thats what i demand here ! Don't ask "can i have your stuff" because i'll give it to everybody else than you!
DeerHunter GE	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:18:00 - [192] Edited by: DeerHunter GE on 17/11/2004 15:22:25 Avon, i dont care about the vat or other problems. I expect to pay the same amount like others. Iam very unhappy about the fact that i have to pay 14.95Ç a month while US residents pay for the same product 14.95 USD. I demand to be charged in USD like before! It was possible and it should be possible again! "Only as an side note". Until first of Nevember 2003 i was billed in USD not in Ç. Aterwards they charged me in Ç. I dont care about the why's for real...i feel that iam already very often in charge to be "patient" with CCP's behauviour for this and that.... even if i understand the reason for some decisions its not an must for me to accept the decision..... Comment: Some or very many internet services all over the world have the same pricing for all customers, thats what i demand here ! Don't ask "can i have your stuff" because i'll give it to everybody else than you!
Avon	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:21:00 - [193] Originally by: DeerHunter GE Avon, i dont care about the vat or other problems. I expect to pay the same amount like others. Iam very unhappy about the fact that i have to pay 14.95€ a month while US residents pay for the same product 14.95 USD. I demand to be charged in USD like before! It was possible and it should be possible again! "Only as an side note". Until first of Nevember 2003 i was billed in USD not in €. Aterwards they charged me in €. I dont care about the why's for real...i feel that iam already very often in charge to be "patient" with CCP's behauviour for this and that.... even if i understand the reason for some decisions its not an must for me to accept the decision..... Well the law states if you live in the EU you have to pay the VAT. If you want to pay in $, send ccp a cheque, but make sure you make it out for $17.94 per month to account for the VAT which you are legally obliged to pay. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Avon	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:21:00 - [194] Originally by: DeerHunter GE Avon, i dont care about the vat or other problems. I expect to pay the same amount like others. Iam very unhappy about the fact that i have to pay 14.95€ a month while US residents pay for the same product 14.95 USD. I demand to be charged in USD like before! It was possible and it should be possible again! "Only as an side note". Until first of Nevember 2003 i was billed in USD not in €. Aterwards they charged me in €. I dont care about the why's for real...i feel that iam already very often in charge to be "patient" with CCP's behauviour for this and that.... even if i understand the reason for some decisions its not an must for me to accept the decision..... Well the law states if you live in the EU you have to pay the VAT. If you want to pay in $, send ccp a cheque, but make sure you make it out for $17.94 per month to account for the VAT which you are legally obliged to pay. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
DeerHunter GE	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:23:00 - [195] Originally by: Avon Originally by: DeerHunter GE Avon, i dont care about the vat or other problems. I expect to pay the same amount like others. Iam very unhappy about the fact that i have to pay 14.95Ç a month while US residents pay for the same product 14.95 USD. I demand to be charged in USD like before! It was possible and it should be possible again! "Only as an side note". Until first of Nevember 2003 i was billed in USD not in Ç. Aterwards they charged me in Ç. I dont care about the why's for real...i feel that iam already very often in charge to be "patient" with CCP's behauviour for this and that.... even if i understand the reason for some decisions its not an must for me to accept the decision..... Well the law states if you live in the EU you have to pay the VAT. If you want to pay in $, send ccp a cheque, but make sure you make it out for $17.94 per month to account for the VAT which you are legally obliged to pay. Some or very many internet services all over the world have the same pricing for all customers, thats what i demand here ! Don't ask "can i have your stuff" because i'll give it to everybody else than you!
DeerHunter GE	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:23:00 - [196] Originally by: Avon Originally by: DeerHunter GE Avon, i dont care about the vat or other problems. I expect to pay the same amount like others. Iam very unhappy about the fact that i have to pay 14.95Ç a month while US residents pay for the same product 14.95 USD. I demand to be charged in USD like before! It was possible and it should be possible again! "Only as an side note". Until first of Nevember 2003 i was billed in USD not in Ç. Aterwards they charged me in Ç. I dont care about the why's for real...i feel that iam already very often in charge to be "patient" with CCP's behauviour for this and that.... even if i understand the reason for some decisions its not an must for me to accept the decision..... Well the law states if you live in the EU you have to pay the VAT. If you want to pay in $, send ccp a cheque, but make sure you make it out for $17.94 per month to account for the VAT which you are legally obliged to pay. Some or very many internet services all over the world have the same pricing for all customers, thats what i demand here ! Don't ask "can i have your stuff" because i'll give it to everybody else than you!
Avon	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:27:00 - [197] Edited by: Avon on 17/11/2004 15:30:12 If you reside in the EU and buy products online, and are not charged VAT or the company you buy from does not pay that VAT for you, it is a criminal offence for you not to declare it and pay it. Not my rules mate. Most online purchases are now passing on the VAT costs - my recent steam purchase of hl2 clearly added the VAT on to the price. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Avon	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:27:00 - [198] Edited by: Avon on 17/11/2004 15:30:12 If you reside in the EU and buy products online, and are not charged VAT or the company you buy from does not pay that VAT for you, it is a criminal offence for you not to declare it and pay it. Not my rules mate. Most online purchases are now passing on the VAT costs - my recent steam purchase of hl2 clearly added the VAT on to the price. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Aelius	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:28:00 - [199] The fair system would be for example everyone pays in Icelandic Koronas. That way CCP knows exactly the money they get and everyone is billed equally. Like a EU resident i know i can't escape VAT except if i buy outside EU paycards. But im willing to pay ie: X amount of ISK + VAT while other players outside EU pay only X amount of ISK. Is this fair enough CCP???????? Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station
Aelius	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:28:00 - [200] The fair system would be for example everyone pays in Icelandic Koronas. That way CCP knows exactly the money they get and everyone is billed equally. Like a EU resident i know i can't escape VAT except if i buy outside EU paycards. But im willing to pay ie: X amount of ISK + VAT while other players outside EU pay only X amount of ISK. Is this fair enough CCP???????? Selling Raven BPC ME20 3M at Yulai 1st Station
IZON	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:47:00 - [201] Originally by: DeerHunter GE Well the law states if you live in the EU you have to pay the VAT. If you want to pay in $, send ccp a cheque, but make sure you make it out for $17.94 per month to account for the VAT which you are legally obliged to pay. Crumbs, sit down and 'think' IT'S NOT ABOUT THE VAT/TAX. This whole thread is not about having to pay EU or US taxes (as some think). It's about CCP's double standard in using TWO currencies to price one product. I live in the UK we still use the pound/sterling and I'm being billed in Euros. I'd rather we were all billed in Dollars or all billed in Euros. Based on the current exchange rate people in America should either be paying a minimum of $18.00/m or Players in the EU should be paying about 10.80 Euros/m. "...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!"
IZON	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:47:00 - [202] Originally by: DeerHunter GE Well the law states if you live in the EU you have to pay the VAT. If you want to pay in $, send ccp a cheque, but make sure you make it out for $17.94 per month to account for the VAT which you are legally obliged to pay. Crumbs, sit down and 'think' IT'S NOT ABOUT THE VAT/TAX. This whole thread is not about having to pay EU or US taxes (as some think). It's about CCP's double standard in using TWO currencies to price one product. I live in the UK we still use the pound/sterling and I'm being billed in Euros. I'd rather we were all billed in Dollars or all billed in Euros. Based on the current exchange rate people in America should either be paying a minimum of $18.00/m or Players in the EU should be paying about 10.80 Euros/m. "...master! there's a guy in the south village called IZON, he is a Ninja!"
Avon	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:54:00 - [203] Edited by: Avon on 17/11/2004 15:57:49 I think you missed the point. $15 + 20% VAT was about the same as 15€ So people who did not live in the EU were charged $15 and those in Europe were charged 15€ Everyone paid 15 somethings, so it looked nice and neat when advertising prices. The € charge was about equal to the $ charge after VAT and exchange rate were accounted for. It was/is all about tax, it was just a clever way to ensure everyone paid the same amount per month, and was fair. The changing exchange rate has put the figures slightly out of line, but this can work both ways. Either everyone can pay in the same currency, but their monthly bill will vary due to exchange rates, and EU customers will have to pay VAT on top, or we can keep the current simple system whereby you know what you will pay each month. I vote for the current system, and yes I do pay in euros. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Avon	Posted - 2004.11.17 15:54:00 - [204] Edited by: Avon on 17/11/2004 15:57:49 I think you missed the point. $15 + 20% VAT was about the same as 15€ So people who did not live in the EU were charged $15 and those in Europe were charged 15€ Everyone paid 15 somethings, so it looked nice and neat when advertising prices. The € charge was about equal to the $ charge after VAT and exchange rate were accounted for. It was/is all about tax, it was just a clever way to ensure everyone paid the same amount per month, and was fair. The changing exchange rate has put the figures slightly out of line, but this can work both ways. Either everyone can pay in the same currency, but their monthly bill will vary due to exchange rates, and EU customers will have to pay VAT on top, or we can keep the current simple system whereby you know what you will pay each month. I vote for the current system, and yes I do pay in euros. ______________________________________________ Never argue with idiots. They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience.
Eumi Ertan	Posted - 2004.11.17 16:13:00 - [205] How hard can it be to grasp this concept?!? Avon is spot on in his statement! It doesn't matter what freaking currency you're billed in - if you live in a country within the EU (read - European Union) you have to pay VAT. Let's say that CCP decided to use US Dollars for their billing, and that alone. Fine - everyone's billed in USD, however - you will NOT pay the same amount if you live in, for example, Norway as you would in Sweden. This is because you have to pay an added VAT if you live within the EU. The guy in Norway and the guy in the US pays the same amount of USD, but not the one in Sweden since that is a country within the EU. It's as simple as that. If a corporation bills you the exact same amount in both cases - they're breaking the laws for trade within the EU.
Eumi Ertan	Posted - 2004.11.17 16:13:00 - [206] How hard can it be to grasp this concept?!? Avon is spot on in his statement! It doesn't matter what freaking currency you're billed in - if you live in a country within the EU (read - European Union) you have to pay VAT. Let's say that CCP decided to use US Dollars for their billing, and that alone. Fine - everyone's billed in USD, however - you will NOT pay the same amount if you live in, for example, Norway as you would in Sweden. This is because you have to pay an added VAT if you live within the EU. The guy in Norway and the guy in the US pays the same amount of USD, but not the one in Sweden since that is a country within the EU. It's as simple as that. If a corporation bills you the exact same amount in both cases - they're breaking the laws for trade within the EU.
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2004.11.17 16:31:00 - [207] Originally by: 0seeker0 You know i, personaly, dont think Tony is Bushes poodle, or henchman. I wasnt actually talking about the Uk --------------------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Joshua Foiritain	Posted - 2004.11.17 16:31:00 - [208] Originally by: 0seeker0 You know i, personaly, dont think Tony is Bushes poodle, or henchman. I wasnt actually talking about the Uk --------------------------- [Coreli Corporation Mainframe]
Urkl	Posted - 2004.11.17 17:15:00 - [209] Edited by: Urkl on 17/11/2004 17:19:36 Originally by: Harisdrop Originally by: Aion Amarra Ergh. The only ones I could imagine invading Germany are actually the Americans >_>. This isn't intended to sound unfriendly to you Americans, but to your government. Note: Americans = USA government Oh Hell no. Some of us (myself included, I'm quite proud to say) have done jail time for actively opposing the actions of this "government." Please show a level of maturity and intellectual honesty and face up to the fact that people are not responsible for the actions of others. * * * * *** ** * *****.
Urkl	Posted - 2004.11.17 17:15:00 - [210] Edited by: Urkl on 17/11/2004 17:19:36 Originally by: Harisdrop Originally by: Aion Amarra Ergh. The only ones I could imagine invading Germany are actually the Americans >_>. This isn't intended to sound unfriendly to you Americans, but to your government. Note: Americans = USA government Oh Hell no. Some of us (myself included, I'm quite proud to say) have done jail time for actively opposing the actions of this "government." Please show a level of maturity and intellectual honesty and face up to the fact that people are not responsible for the actions of others. * * * * *** ** * *****.

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