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LHA Tarawa
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Posted - 2010.01.25 20:07:00 -
[61]
My $.02... but I'm sure I'm just stupid.
If you have to mine both high-end and low-end minerals to get/maintain industrial level, then wouldn't you average the numbers to figure out the per/hour.
So, let's say as an example (and I have no idea if this is right) that you could make 50 million an hour mining high end 10 million an hour mining low end (and assuming equal m3 of each in a belt), then you're making, on average, 30 million.
I wouldn't consider that too bad considering the mostly AFK nature of mining. It is certainly easier to do duel boxed than pve or pvp.
What I find broken is the bare bones prices for minerals now where one of the more profitable professions is self-distructing ships and collecting on insurance. One of the great things about EVE is PVP, and that means causing others a really bad day (and on occasion having one yourself). But is it really a bad day when the insurance fully pays for the losses???
So, how do we get LESS minerals mined instead of more so that prices of minerals will increase. This will allow miners to make more money off the minerals they do mine, increase ship prices above the insurance fraud level, and make it actually financially painful to lose a ship.
Or, I guess, we could just lower insurance payouts, remove insurance fraud as an escape mechanism for all these minerals, and watch mineral prices take another huge step down.
Then you could mine ABCs all day, and sell them for the price VELD currently goes for.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.01.25 20:46:00 -
[62]
 Originally by: Zifrian
Edited by: Zifrian on 25/01/2010 19:29:57
Originally by: Venkul Mul
Originally by: Zifrian
I'm becoming more convinced this is about ticking off empire people running level 4's and mining empire ores than anything. They pay their subscriptions in far greater numbers than 0.0 miners, probably greater than 0.0 players tbh. If they allow better minerals to be mined in 0.0 that affects the prices in empire, then you get a lot of people not making the money they used to and thus not happy. Maybe they are looking to balance it out? Lot easier to just let 0.0 miners cry on the forums I would think. It's a drop in the bucket if they stop playing.
Seeing how an increase of the flow of high end minerals from 0.0 will decrease the value of high end and increase the value of low ends like tritanium (read about the mineral basket) your conviction is wrong.
You realize that 60% of minerals comes from missions right? Feel free to explain your logic though.
a) in august 2008 40% of minerals did come from reprocessing nodules and ships (not mission alone, but mineral compression modules, ship sold under mineral cost and even T2 stuff as the mineral produced did include morphite)
Quote:
This was the one month split for all items reprocessed measured mid-august to mid-september 2008.
|| Mineral || Ore% || Loot% || Drone Compounds% ||
||-----------||------||-------||------------------||
|| Tritanium || 46% || 43% || 11% ||
|| Pyerite || 29% || 60% || 10% ||
|| Mexallon || 30% || 59% || 11% ||
|| Isogen || 21% || 56% || 23% ||
|| Nocxium || 18% || 32% || 51% ||
|| Zydrine || 43% || 18% || 40% ||
|| Megacyte || 44% || 39% || 16% ||
|| Morphite || 77% || 1% || 22% ||
* Ore is minerals from the asteroid ores
* loot is modules, ships, charges, drones for example.
* drone compounds are loot items from rogue drones
If you think nothing has changed after 18 months, wormhole mining and a increase in veldspar in high ... well, it is your problem.
b) I repeat, read how the mineral basked work.
For a simple explanation, ship insurance price guarantee a minimal value for the total mineral used in ship construction.
If high end "production" increase and price decrease more people start producing and self destructing ships for the insurance payout.
The demand for low end increase (as the ship builders need lots of low end and high end are already available in quantity) so the price of low end increase.
Total price of the ship stay the same, but the value of the component minerals shift in favour of the low ends.
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Osprey Arrione
Minmatar
Texas Salvage
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Posted - 2010.01.26 17:59:00 -
[63]
ill come to null sec and mine your veld. get me in game
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Vilgan i'Lakin
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Posted - 2010.01.27 03:02:00 -
[64]
Edited by: Vilgan i''Lakin on 27/01/2010 03:02:00
Quick question: it sounds like they fixed veldspar in 0.0 to not insta pop once you get your industry up? Is that true? I know I used to mine exclusively ABC when I was starting out because having to switch targets on every hulk CONSTANTLY was horrible. If there'd been super gigantic veldspar roids that I could sit on for an hour I wouldn't have minded hitting veldspar.
Sure would have helped the whole "lets make capital ships!!" thing get off the ground, as NOBODY who used 3+ hulks was willing to endure the hell that was mining veldspar. 16-18 mil/hour/hulk? Sure, that's okay. Having to retarget every 2 minutes at each hulk and constantly having to reposition due to all roids popped? Definitely prefer to /wrist.
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Onyth
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Posted - 2010.01.27 17:03:00 -
[65]
Donald, if u don't want to mine any veld or other low end ores, then join a corp/alliance that has acces to normal belts with ABC ores in, otherwise... just mine what should be mined to maintain the index, or wait and don't do nothing whilst you hope for ccp to change the system. That're basically the only options you have.
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Tractus Vesica
Solaire Soldats
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Posted - 2010.01.27 19:03:00 -
[66]
Originally by: Donald 01Miner
So we're in a system with 4-5 belts, not a lot yeah for a 0.0 but they're pretty good belts.
we upgrade the place via mining ops and pretty steady mining all the way to 2, where it's become pretty stagnant. Apparently we don't have enough 24/7 miners (wtf) to raise it to 3 and get another, better belt, and yet somehow, even keeping all 4 mining belts ****d of any decent minerals, and mining the 2 builts which seem to reset every 3 days instead of every night like ccp promised, we can barely keep our node up, even putting in hard core hours (keep it at 2).
wtf is up with this? our miners are going crazy out here putting big time hours in hulks just to keep these crappy belts up, that we pop roids in very very quickly, meanwhile ratters in this system or any other system barely have to sneeze and military goes to 5.
is this intentional and dear god why? We can't even sleep at night without the index dropping like 20% and we spend the entire day raising it back up. We're to the point we have to start mining low end ore just to keep it from falling hoping that some damned roids will respawn so we can do abc again.
anyone else noticing this? It's not a prob for corps in systems with like 30 belts of abc, but that's few and far between.
No idea.
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They call me crazy. I'm not one to argue. |
Stardust Baltimore
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Posted - 2010.02.26 04:48:00 -
[67]
Edited by: Stardust Baltimore on 26/02/2010 04:50:18
The long and the short of it is this: Yes ratters clear the smaller spawns along with the larger spawns. So why not take a few minutes to a couple hours to clear out the relatively small amounts of lowends found in the gravs. Unless ofc its the small with the 250k spod rock (we let the new members go crazy on that).
For weeks now we have maintianed level 4 in a system where there are constant orca bonuses running with an average of 10 miners in system at all times. On average per day we respawn 1 Large Grav site and 1 moderate site and with a concerted effort we keep industry bouncing between 92-98% to level 5. Heres my problem: We can achieve level 5 with a bit of effort and maintain it all the way to downtime but during downtime it will degrade back to 96-98% level 4.
Aside from being horrendously boring, in a moderate or large grav you hardly if ever need to move essentially mining whatever high ends are in reach until they are expired, if everyone in the belt continues onto the lowends and hacks away at it within a few hours you have a brand new fresh large or moderate grav to munch away on.
So here are my gripes:
1. There is no way to see the percentage over level 5, so as to buffer it.
2. Levels should not degrade over DT.
3. If a site can immediately despawn if you lose a level of industry and the upgrade offlines, when it onlines while achieving a level the new levels site should also immediately spawn.
4. The people who gripe about having to mine lowends aren't producers they are just isk farming. The alliances that keep the indexes high are mining all the ore with the goal of building something with what they mine... Which right now means we just cant get enough kernite, even with killing these gravs we still have a massive mexallon shortage.
It just seems people just want an endless supply of ABCM and they want to do it with 5 hulks. Its a challenge folks, and yes I am in a huge 0.0 alliance, and we have worked hard to attain what we have to this point. So if it takes a large alliance with a strong industry wing to achieve this, why should your upstart group be able to do it? I'm not trying to troll, it is what it is...
again, just my 2p
Ninja Edit: Hammered down the wall of text a bit.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.26 07:24:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Stardust Baltimore
It just seems people just want an endless supply of ABCM and they want to do it with 5 hulks.
Don't forget "while keeping the price of Zyd/Mega/Morph high". 
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Oriss Amarr
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Posted - 2010.02.26 16:22:00 -
[69]
I would like to direct you all to the myriad of posts about mineral prices already being shot. If the changes you whinebears propose go through, say goodbye to the market. Supply > Demand already, let's make it worse amirite?
Inb4 LOL YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
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Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Vahrokh Consulting
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Posted - 2010.02.26 18:32:00 -
[70]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 26/02/2010 18:32:31
Same as above.
Offer >> demand already.
By making offer >>>>>>>>>>>>>> demand, mining is not going to get fixed. It's going to get Mega at 20 ISK pu instead.
CCP want to make sure that 0.0 gets more corps (therefore the old "3 good systems per region" does not work) but also wants that those corps are not 23/7 scripted china farmers selectively picking ABC.
As usual, those up for the challenge will win, the others will cry on the forums.
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Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
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Mana Trim
Neo T.E.C.H.
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Posted - 2010.02.27 00:34:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Oriss Amarr
Inb4 LOL YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
LOL YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT.
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Kell Braugh
Dawn of a new Empire
The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.27 02:38:00 -
[72]
The mineral prices have not plummeted due to the dominion sov upgrades, they have plumeted due to the unending ABCM ored grav sites available in (deep deadend, 99% safe once you have a couple scouts out) wormhole systems that are farmed...
Wormhole space is like dronelands squared as far as its effect on mineral prices in empire.
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Venkul Mul
Gallente
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Posted - 2010.02.27 07:33:00 -
[73]
Originally by: Kell Braugh
The mineral prices have not plummeted due to the dominion sov upgrades, they have plumeted due to the unending ABCM ored grav sites available in (deep deadend, 99% safe once you have a couple scouts out) wormhole systems that are farmed...
Wormhole space is like dronelands squared as far as its effect on mineral prices in empire.
The last QUEN say it happened mostly in December. If that was because in October and November people was stockpiling for the coming expansion or because 0.0 upgrades make a difference is anyone guess.
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Cipher Jones
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.02.27 16:36:00 -
[74]
Originally by: Donald 01Miner
I'd like to close this thread so idiots can't post here.
ok done! that's you 2 :)
I mean if you're going to be sarcastic...at least don't make a comment that makes you look stupid. Oh noooesss....I think you should have to do 100,000 isk wormholes for 4 days, so you can have access to the 2 bil ones. After all, that's what we have to do for mining amiright amiright
You want your numbers then earn em. Dont cry coz you got an answer you didnt want to hear.
--------------------------------------------------
We lost around 1.5b worth of tower, fuel and modules total.
(Pause for amusement)
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Giz S
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Posted - 2010.02.28 05:22:00 -
[75]
If people want to keep complaining about the problem, why dont we just remove the mineral index all together? I mean, if they didnt add it, then you wouldnt have these belts to mine. Either stop complaining and just mine everything, or ask ccp to remove the industry index alltogether and you can just mine the regular belts in your systems.
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EvilSource
Amarr
Ascendent.
Systematic-Chaos
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Posted - 2010.04.13 22:32:00 -
[76]
seariously what are these idiots moaning about...
find a -0.8 sys with 10+ belts and uprgade that!!!
that way u got 10 ABC belts + hidden ...
if u morons are trying to get upgrades in -0.1 systems u deserve to mine veld
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Illectroculus Defined
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Posted - 2010.04.14 23:03:00 -
[77]
Hey there's worse things than getting forced to mine veldspar to keep your industry index up, you could be forced to mine Jaspet.
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John Adamantis
Gallente
Gangrel Mining and Security
The Volition Cult
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Posted - 2010.04.15 08:47:00 -
[78]
Edited by: John Adamantis on 15/04/2010 08:51:44
Well, I must say I have fully enjoyed reading this entire thread.
For those of you complaining, please understand nothing I MEAN NOTHING in this game if you think about it unless you find an exploit is easy 
I'm a Director of a mining corparation that is about to drop the Level 5 Industy into the I Hub. we just past 75% last night. we will probly be the only mining corp in New eden that can maintain it as well. Simply because we have players that all they log on for is to mine. the corp is ****ing rich every miner hasn't used real money to play this game for months. they mine the low ends because they know it benifits them and the corp ITS CALLED TEAMWORK. Miners can be greedy but....only because now they have the chance to get rich....Level 5 here we come....hmmmmmmm king ark.......
http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1301912
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Eric Xallen
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Posted - 2010.04.15 22:34:00 -
[79]
Want to move towards fixing wormhole mining? Make it so the sleepers respawn occasionally. In 0.0 the rats respawn all the time, making my mining interrupted and annoying. The sleepers, you kill them, grav site is free and clear. So making the sleepers respawn would definitely make mining less efficient in wormholes.
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Sendara Amarri
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Posted - 2010.04.16 15:54:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Sendara Amarri on 16/04/2010 15:54:33
Is it just me or is that guy from Razor fuc¡king ret¡arded?
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