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[ISSUE] Account Hacking, RMT & Character Sales

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Verone Gallente Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 16:58:00 - [1] Edited by: Verone on 25/12/2009 16:58:12 Account Hacking, RMT & Character Sales Funnily enough, all these things are connected, and they're an issue. In Eve Online your character name is your identity. Reputations are made and broken by the actions and omissions of a character. Eve's very basis and its most fundamental game play elements are surrounded by the idea of social networking. CCP have even backed this sentiment up by the public release of their ôNew Edenö social networking concept at Fanfest 2009. Whether or not you're a roleplayer, your character develops a reputation and persona due to how you play and the choices you make. In recent years this entire concept has been blurred from black and white, into grey because of character sales and trade that were made legal for in game currency by CCP. Sadly other lines have also been blurred, and Eve has begun to take on the qualities of many mainstream MMOs. The sale of characters has been a thorn in the side of Eve Online for a long time, in its previous and current forms. Out of game wealth is now a factor more than ever for those who play, with members of the community with the financial basis out of game able to farm characters, before selling them on for multi-billion ISK profits. It's become more and more of an issue in recent years, and even more recently its also become a tool for those who seek to harm the Eve community and its player base. It's become a tool for quick sources of ISK for those who supply ISK for RMT. These people don't care about you, this game, its community or its success. They care about profit. When their accounts are banned because they're caught stealing a character to sell on for ISK to fuel their RMT, they simply create more and move on to the next victim. They care about one thing, real world profit from selling ISK. They don't give a ** about who they're selling to or who they're ripping off. Account hacking is on the rise, with thousands of us receiving bogus emails and links on a day to day basis for one reason; to capture our account details and steal characters to raise ISK for RMT profit. Two members of my corporation have now suffered from this, along with countless cases I've heard of where good members of the community have had their characters or corporations cleaned out by these people looking to profit from RMT. If people still feel the need to get ahead using their out of game wealth, they can always resort to selling PLEX available by redeeming GTC codes, but it's high time that character trading was stopped COMPLETELY by CCP. The issue is spiralling out of control and causing more and more problems for the GM Team with countless petitions that could be stopped with a simple change in policy, allowing the GMs to focus on assisting the player base with real game issues. I can guarantee that the vast majority of the community will more than likely be against me here, with only a few seeing the sense in what I'm saying. In short, as a member of the player base I'm asking the CSM to raise the sale of characters as an issue with CCP at the next meeting in Iceland. RMT is choking Eve Online, and character sales are a fast and risk free way for those who farm ISK to sell to produce more profit. I'm sure that there'll be arguments about CCP not being responsible for account detail security, and users being responsible for the security of their own accounts but people need to realise that not everyone who plays Eve is completely technology minded and up to speed with 100% of current events. There are more than enough tools available to build yourself an awesome character rather than resorting to buying one. I expect to be flamed, but what else is new on the CSM's forum? While I know that the majority will be against what I'm saying because so many people buy and sell characters, please, for the sake of Eve Online and its community, see sense, and support this thread. >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<**
Great Artista Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 17:08:00 - [2] Originally by: Verone it's high time that character trading was stopped COMPLETELY by CCP. Dug it out for tl;dr crowd. This feature doesn't belong in eve. Supported. ____ Rockets need a boost. CCP status: [_] Told. [x] Not told. ◕◡◕
Spasmod Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 17:21:00 - [3] Originally by: Great Artista Originally by: Verone it's high time that character trading was stopped COMPLETELY by CCP. Dug it out for tl;dr crowd. This feature doesn't belong in eve. Supported. I couldn't agree more. I fully support this thread 100%
Michael Blackthorne Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 17:25:00 - [4] Aye, I was goin to buy myself a 2nd char but after all these... Support this 100%
Stardust Mina Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 17:28:00 - [5] I agree to this!
Korthan Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 17:29:00 - [6] Even though I've been massively lucky in the past I still think that doing something about this would be the right way to go for CCP and would better protect the player base as a whole.
Helen Highwater Gallente Ultrapolite Socialites GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.12.25 17:40:00 - [7] Let me start off by saying that I fully agree that security needs to be improved, I believe it's too easy for someone who has gained access to an account to strip it not only of ingame assets (which is bad enough) but also of the most valuable thing it has which is training time invested in characters. Having said that, removing the legitimate trade in characters will simply drive it underground where CCP will have no control over it at all. I believe that to be a bad thing. Just like GTCs, having a sanctioned and (theoretically) secure channel to trade characters lessens the influence of shady RMT companies and provides another option for making money ingame for many players. Regarding account security, there is only so much that CCP can do to protect you from yourself. Yes, I understand that many players are not security conscious and that people do dumb things like put their passwords into random webforms sent by email. Short of producing account dongles like Blizzard has for WoW though, I'm struggling to see how CCP can do more than the end user can to make the account secure. This isn't just CCP's problem to solve, so much revolves around online interactions these days that 'internet literacy' (including security basics) should be just as much a requirement for modern life as the ability to read and write. In other words, people need to be educated and to educate themselves and that isn't entirely CCP's responsibility. Tl;dr: Yes to improved account security - confirmation mails when personal details change on the account page or when character transfers are requested etc. No to removing the character trade entirely. Users are responsible for their own security and they need to educate themselves rather than relying on others to fix the mess afterwards. -------------------------------------------------------------- Let's not and say we did.
Artemis Dragmire Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 17:53:00 - [8] Going to support this. Not because I was told to, but because I have always believed there is too much metagaming in EVE - Online. I've grown accustomed to it over the years, have come to accept the need for alts, especially in my line of work, but I have trained my own alts, with my own money, and my own time. I've always thought character selling/trading was right on the borderline of what should be allowed for metagaming. People should, at the very least, pay for and train their own alts, not purchase them from other people in some barely secure web forum. Furthermore, with the recent increase in account hacking and the subsequent selling of the characters hacked, I think it's high time CCP looks into this issue, and shuts down this method for the ISK farmers to make income. Also, without the character bazaar, CCP's job of administering the e-justice becomes a lot easier. Not just for ISK sellers, but for people trying to dodge a banhammer for other reasons as well. For all the reasons mentioned above, and also for all the reasons Verone mentioned, I support this motion 100%. Oh, and I'd just like to make something clear to those that don't get it: You can have your account hacked and your character sold without ever having clicked a keylogger link on the EVE-O forums. There are many ways of getting keyloggers installed on your system, and not even running the most paranoid of firewalls/anti-virus/malware software will save you. It is far too easy to compromise a system and get this information. I've taken college courses on the subject, and know HOW this is done, it's actually quite a simple task to compromise your average system. So don't go thinking "I'm immune because I'm not ******ed". It's just stupid talk. Take matters into your own hands, players of EVE, support this motion, get CCP to realize that this is a huge issue that needs to be dealt with. And the first step is what is suggested above. For everyone else: Change your passwords, TODAY. How long has it been since you last changed em? Can you type your password from memory? It's probably been too long then. Run a system scan or three, just to be sure. Good luck, and Merry Christmas to CCP & The Players. A giant lump of flaming dog poo for the dirty ISK farmers.
Vincent Pryce Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 17:54:00 - [9] werd --
Selkie Lochlan United Systems Navy Zenith Affinity	Posted - 2009.12.25 17:55:00 - [10] In support of this thread
Irusu Kitaka	Posted - 2009.12.25 17:57:00 - [11] I couldn't agree more. I fully support this thread 100%
Kaileen Starsong Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 18:06:00 - [12] Originally by: Helen Highwater Having said that, removing the legitimate trade in characters will simply drive it underground where CCP will have no control over it at all. I believe that to be a bad thing. Just like GTCs, having a sanctioned and (theoretically) secure channel to trade characters lessens the influence of shady RMT companies and provides another option for making money ingame for many players. Would reduce the scope of such trades greatly, anyway. I do believe that forbidding character trade would be for good after all, although it's sort of a mixed case, really. Don't belive CSM would be able to do anything about this, even if all delegates wanted to. It's not even ingame issue or anything, it's the rules which are set by CCP...
Kala Veijo Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 18:34:00 - [13] Hear hear
Recusor Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 18:36:00 - [14] Completely supported
Jenna Sol	Posted - 2009.12.25 18:54:00 - [15] Edited by: Jenna Sol on 25/12/2009 18:54:13 I support this idea.
Killde Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 18:59:00 - [16] I agree, it's getting a bit silly. Will this drive the market underground? Most assuredly, however there will be much less people willing to get involved with this and it will increase the time significantly in regards to actually getting the character sold. This gives the real account owner much more time to notice that his account has been hacked and for CCP to do something about it. Basically they hack an account, sell the characters, and then sell the isk for real cash before CCP comes along and resets the account and the isk. In the end the people who really lose here are the people that bought the ill gotten isk, as it'll get reset to the original owner once CCP takes action. The problem is the real culprit still gets away with the real cash. As long as we can stop them before the cash transaction takes place, they won't have an incentive to do this sort of crap.
Rainsdon Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 19:17:00 - [17] Characters are made through dedication, time and of one's skill - not isk. Supported. _________________________________________________________
ArmyOfMe The Athiest Syndicate Advocated Destruction	Posted - 2009.12.25 19:42:00 - [18] Originally by: Killde As long as we can stop them before the cash transaction takes place, they won't have an incentive to do this sort of crap. If ppl started using their bains rather then being mindlless morons that click on every link they find it wouldnt be a issue at all. i see no reason to support this, why punish everyone for the stupidity of the few.
Kyoko Sakoda Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 20:14:00 - [19] Going to have to say I agree. ___ Latest video: War Has Come (720p)
Veshta Yoshida Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2009.12.25 20:49:00 - [20] I can certainly see where you are coming from, being a high-profile player Verone, but is abolishing character trading as a whole really necessary to achieve what you are trying to do? - Enhance account security with randomized keys, similar to what banks are doing. - Add a highly visible entry in employment history with the day of trade. - E-Mail verification several days prior to trade. Add same type of verification if registered email is changed through website. - etc. Removing character trades completely when there are plenty of ways to avoid/minimize ID theft still out there makes little sense to me.
Verone Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 21:36:00 - [21] Originally by: Veshta Yoshida I can certainly see where you are coming from, being a high-profile player Verone, but is abolishing character trading as a whole really necessary to achieve what you are trying to do? I don't consider myself a high profile player at all. I like to think I've done my part in assisting making Eve a little more enjoyable for the player base with all the EveTV and tournament stuff, and the guides and articles in E-ON, but in the end it's the people leading major power holding alliances that are the ones who're "high profile". Originally by: Veshta Yoshida Removing character trades completely when there are plenty of ways to avoid/minimize ID theft still out there makes little sense to me. Remove the incentive, and you remove the problem. Granted the situation will never be COMPLETELY resolved, but those who choose to trade characters do so at their own risk if CCP make the stand to remove character trading. You'll find that 99.9% of people won't bother due to the risk of losing years of work on character development. Coupled with this, it removes the incentive for people to have their accounts ripped off to sell their characters, because there's no buyers sat there with tens of billions in easy money that RMT companies can sell on quickly for real life profit before CCP cotton on to to what's happened. >>> THE LIFE OF AN OUTLAW <<<
MellaRinn Veto. Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 21:36:00 - [22] voicing my support. Haviong had my account hacked before, I'd have hated if Mella was sold. ✖Veto Corp. Director✖ Click the sig 4 my vids
Pliskkenn Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.25 22:19:00 - [23] Originally by: Rainsdon Characters are made through dedication, time and of one's skill - not isk. Supported. This is my belief too. ---
Aphrodite Skripalle	Posted - 2009.12.25 23:01:00 - [24] I dont agree with selling and buying chars but i totally agree that the login procedure and the security of an account should be more safe. Its way to easy to hack somones login and its impossible to make a windows system safe to prevent this. So ccp here has something to do to make the account safer. They are ways to do that. You can use sort of an asymmetric keypair, like pgp is doing that, which can make this login procedure "pretty good private" and even if a keylogger is logging the password the account cannot be completly hacked.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2009.12.26 00:00:00 - [25] Verone, I sympathise with your sentiments, but I fear the law of unintended consequences will come in to play here. At the moment, with santioned, legitimate character sales, there is at least some recourse. Banning legal character sales will just drive more people in to the arms of the RMTers. The answer is improved options account security, a "cooldown" period on character sales, and maybe even an option to 'lock' a character to an account for a specified period.
Hroya TerraNovae	Posted - 2009.12.26 00:22:00 - [26]
Andreus LeHane Mixed Metaphor	Posted - 2009.12.26 00:59:00 - [27] Supporting this topic for my brosef, Verone -----
voogru Gallente Massive Damage MACHI MISCHIEF	Posted - 2009.12.26 04:15:00 - [28] In my opinion, what they really need to do is secure the login system: The primary email on the account should not be changed without GM intervention. - The method of changing the primary email on the account needs to be made as secure as possible to prevent unauthorized changes. Multiple (>=3) failed login attempts need to be forwarded to the primary account email with: - 1. IP address of the person trying to login - 2. Region (Country, State, City) - 3. Partial password (half of it or so) The last successful login should be displayed when logging in, including the IP address and region. Players should be able to opt-in to a region lock to only allow an account to login from a particular region. Player can configure countries, states, cities that logins are allowed from. Logins that violate these conditions would alert the account owner and deny the logon. Any changes to the account (including character transfers) will require an email to be dispatched to the primary email to confirm the changes. Disabling account transfers won't stop RMT or account hacking. Both of these were problems before CCP decided to put in the transfer system. Account hacking can be fought by implementing new security measures. RMT can be fought by pro-actively going after ISK sellers in the game and ruthlessly banning farming accounts before they have the ability to generate large amounts of ISK. Hacking being on the rise is a sign to me that they are having a hard time generating billions of ISK from farming because CCP is going after them, so they are resorting to hacking to make up for the losses. Now that they are fighting RMT more it's probably time to fight the account hacking by implementing some security measures for the 21st century. I don't support disabling character transfers because in my opinion, it won't fix anything by itself. If they just disable character transfers, they can still take the account and clean out the assets and ISK, leaving the player penniless. They still win. Where as if they secure the logon systems more, it'll protect the accounts from their stuff being taken and prevent unauthorized character transfers. But I see where you're coming from and I'm fairly sure your overall goal is, less hacked accounts. Hate Farmers? Click Here
Kuga Kita Veto Corp	Posted - 2009.12.26 04:34:00 - [29] I'll be the Veto. outcast and go against what seems to be the grain here. hah I've made for too much isk over the last 5 years from selling off old toons I get tired of/have no use for to endorse this. However. If this thread were simply about beefing up security in some way. Longer passwords, req of more complex passwords, log in forms that Firefox/IE can't retain credentials for, I would fully endorse it. <3 to the fascist dictator and those in the family that have recently had accounts hacked. I just don't see quite eye to eye with many regarding this.
Jhonen Senraedi Minmatar Dopehead Industries Republic Alliance	Posted - 2009.12.26 10:47:00 - [30] Agree with this... so... Signed

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