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Vokanic
Nemitronix Inc
15
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:41:00 -
[1291] - Quote
corestwo wrote:The considerably different tone in these articles is amusing. Guess which of these authors does not like goons, and which either likes us or is ambivalent?  (hint the answer is that I'm pretty sure Brendan Drain was the guy who mittens ripped a new one over his sensationalist "reporting" of the fanfest fiasco)
and in both cases it will drive new players to eve. and thats why this is such a fine edged blade that ccp dance on. (and no other game company ever will I suspect) |

Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
827
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:44:00 -
[1292] - Quote
Vokanic wrote:corestwo wrote:The considerably different tone in these articles is amusing. Guess which of these authors does not like goons, and which either likes us or is ambivalent?  (hint the answer is that I'm pretty sure Brendan Drain was the guy who mittens ripped a new one over his sensationalist "reporting" of the fanfest fiasco) and in both cases it will drive new players to eve. and thats why this is such a fine edged blade that ccp dance on. (and no other game company ever will I suspect) I know its stories like this that brought me, and quite a few RL friends who play, to join EVE. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |

Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
185
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:44:00 -
[1293] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Dramaticus wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote:[quote=darmwand] it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry. Except its nothing like that? Except where it is, yeah. Please explain, in detail, how it is like that. You can't make claims and back them up with nothing but 'Yes it is!' if you want anyone to see you as anything but a meaningless NPC alt troll.
Please provide a 10 page essay summarizing your thesis with complete references (I want library stuff, not internet!)

Let's try this again:
By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.
You gamed the game. That's an exploit. You didn't make things appear out of thin air, there were 3 steps you had to take first, whoppity-do big difference. |

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
467
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:44:00 -
[1294] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:corestwo wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote: it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.
Yes, "taking the existing game mechanics to a significant but legitimate extreme" and "abusing a bug that allows your towers to continue to run and produce ferrogel even when inputs are no longer present" are totally the same thing. The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument. Unfortunately for them, CCP has not used this word. In fact, they're using anytonyms of legit. Not a good sign goonies /o\ Yes, CCP's decision is king here, as always, and if they label it an exploit, that's their perogative. However, most players - the ones without an axe to grind, anyway - can look at this and tell that there is a clear difference between an obvious glitch such as in the ferrogel case, and this.
Vokanic wrote:and in both cases it will drive new players to eve. and thats why this is such a fine edged blade that ccp dance on. (and no other game company ever will I suspect)
Indeed. Stories like this, stories about massive corp thefts and scams, stories of huge fleet battles - this is what draws people to eve. Stories of mining rocks in empire? Not so much... |

No More Heroes
GoonWaffe Goonswarm Federation
693
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:45:00 -
[1295] - Quote
These are some good comments:
AwesomeAssassin says: 05:19pm June 22 2012 wonder if ccp do anything about it, though i like that the whole universe of eve is "on its own", not altered so much by ccp.
Computer (Easy) says: 05:19pm June 22 2012 Eve Online: Economic Anarchy at it's Extreme. Edit: More like economic lunacy.
impishrazor says: 05:29pm June 22 2012 That is ******* awesome. . |

Pisov viet
Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore
59
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:46:00 -
[1296] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:corestwo wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote: it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.
Yes, "taking the existing game mechanics to a significant but legitimate extreme" and "abusing a bug that allows your towers to continue to run and produce ferrogel even when inputs are no longer present" are totally the same thing. The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument. Unfortunately for them, CCP has not used this word. In fact, they're using anytonyms of legit. Not a good sign goonies /o\ The only people I've seen use the word abuse are goon haters and people supporting their argument. Checkmate, atheist. |

Lord Zim
905
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:48:00 -
[1297] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument. Yes, the group of people who dislike us would surely not use any opportunity to twist and maim the truth in any way shape or form, kind of like they did when the mittani incident hit. You know, the incident where the players and the media probably did more damage by repeatedly and loudly spread the miner's name, everywhere.
No sirree, that group is honourable. |

Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
151
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:48:00 -
[1298] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:
By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.
You gamed the game. That's an exploit. You didn't make things appear out of thin air, there were 3 steps you had to take first, whoppity-do big difference.
So your proof that this is like duping minerals at a POS is a post from CCP Sreegs that confirms they are looking to what occurred. Gotcha. |

Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
827
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:49:00 -
[1299] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Please provide a 10 page essay summarizing your thesis with complete references (I want library stuff, not internet!)  Let's try this again: By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.You gamed the game. That's an exploit. You didn't make things appear out of thin air, there were 3 steps you had to take first, whoppity-do big difference. I didn't say quote Sreegs, ex-CEO of Goonswarm, the man who said they were there to ruin your game, said in a knee jerk reaction to what at first glance would appear to be a bug(tho a good, solid look shows its usage of game mechanics, for the most part) said.
YOU are making accusations. The burden of proof is on YOU.
Or are you not familiar with the concept of innocent until PROVEN guilty?
Edit: Oh, and don't point fingers at me. I am not a goon, and I am in particular not one of the 5 people who masterminded this. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |

Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
185
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:51:00 -
[1300] - Quote
Pisov viet wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote:corestwo wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote: it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.
Yes, "taking the existing game mechanics to a significant but legitimate extreme" and "abusing a bug that allows your towers to continue to run and produce ferrogel even when inputs are no longer present" are totally the same thing. The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument. Unfortunately for them, CCP has not used this word. In fact, they're using anytonyms of legit. Not a good sign goonies /o\ The only people I've seen use the word abuse are goon haters and people supporting their argument. Checkmate, atheist.
And CCP on page 3.. or is it 4?
GOAAAAAAAAAL |

Dramaticus
Goonswarm Federation
151
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:52:00 -
[1301] - Quote
https://forums.eveonline.com/default.aspx?g=posts&m=1517550#post1517550
CCP karkur wrote:I'm not sure... I'm a girl/female/woman and I didn't know the "correct" answer 
There is a quote from CCP karkur stating that she is a woman/girl/female. Therefore I can only assume that using a microwarpdrive to warp in 10 seconds is an exploit. |

BolsterBomb
Bane Inc INQUISITION.
97
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:52:00 -
[1302] - Quote
90% of these people in this thread has forget one key thing
THIS IS EVE
CONGRATS TO THE GOONS on a job well done. They did the testing, they did the work and they figured it out.
This is eve. If CCP punishes Goons for this it would be absolutely against the spirit of the game.
The goons did not exploit anything. They figured out how the mechanics worked and worked the mechanics.
It is CCP's job to ensure the mechanics work to what they are supposed to work. To say "well we didn't mean it to work that way" is bull. Its your job to ensure it works. If you find a hole you patch it.
Good job GOONS Brig General of The Caldari State
Traitor and Ex Luminaire General of The Gallente Federation |

Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
185
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:53:00 -
[1303] - Quote
If you get the thread to page 100, they'll let you keep your stuff.
Lol, no. I was just kidding. But do keep posting about how legit your exploit was. |

Darth Gustav
Sons Of 0din Fatal Ascension
892
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:53:00 -
[1304] - Quote
CCP designed the virtual equivalent of a money tree and then called it abuse when somebody set about harvesting.
This reminds me of a story in a really, really old book.
HEY! ONE OF THE CHARACTERS IN THE STORY WAS EVE! He who trolls trolls best when he who is trolled trolls the troller. -Darth Gustav's Axiom |

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
537
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:53:00 -
[1305] - Quote
Pisov viet wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote:corestwo wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote: it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.
Yes, "taking the existing game mechanics to a significant but legitimate extreme" and "abusing a bug that allows your towers to continue to run and produce ferrogel even when inputs are no longer present" are totally the same thing. The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument. Unfortunately for them, CCP has not used this word. In fact, they're using anytonyms of legit. Not a good sign goonies /o\ The only people I've seen use the word abuse are goon haters and people supporting their argument. Checkmate, atheist.
Because you didn't read the ******* thread, because you are ******* trolling. We now return you to your regularly scheduled **** poast. |

Lord Zim
905
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:55:00 -
[1306] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Because you didn't read the ******* thread, because you are ******* trolling. Nope. |

Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
827
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:55:00 -
[1307] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Pisov viet wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote:corestwo wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote: it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.
Yes, "taking the existing game mechanics to a significant but legitimate extreme" and "abusing a bug that allows your towers to continue to run and produce ferrogel even when inputs are no longer present" are totally the same thing. The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument. Unfortunately for them, CCP has not used this word. In fact, they're using anytonyms of legit. Not a good sign goonies /o\ The only people I've seen use the word abuse are goon haters and people supporting their argument. Checkmate, atheist. Because you didn't read the ******* thread, because you are ******* trolling. Pot, meet kettle.
Kettle, meet pot. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |

Better Than You
School of Applied Knowledge Caldari State
12
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:55:00 -
[1308] - Quote
I say set the goon wallet negative the five trillion isk they stole. |

Dave stark
Martyr's Vengence Test Alliance Please Ignore
38
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:56:00 -
[1309] - Quote
Pr1ncess Alia wrote:If you get the thread to page 100, they'll let you keep your stuff.
Lol, no. I was just kidding. But do keep posting about how legit your exploit was. are you the same kind of person that was sat in st paul's complaining about how bankers are making lots of money too? |

Inspiration
Focused Radical Energy Engineering
25
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:56:00 -
[1310] - Quote
michael boltonIII wrote:Haha, these are the moments that really show that really show that some people are playing the game on a different level. I have prepared my tear collection equipment and wait with baited breadth for highsec players to commence filling my vats.
Level?
This is just a variation of a basic theme that has been around in EVE for like forever...raising its head now and then when mechanics change or new items/game play is introduced. I am very sure many such schemes on a much smaller scale have been going on.
It was the first question I asked myself when I saw the mechanics....WTF...it is just so obvious the system is flawed and easily rigged. But you need to be extremely rich to make big bucks from it or very patient and hope no one else finds out for a long time (good luck with that).
The obvious glaring hole in FW is that both sides are controlled by players and the rewards come form NPC. Team up and you got a win and that is exactly what goons did. All they had to do is trick the NPC into using a ridicules price!
Goons beat the C-team that is CCP when it comes to insight, thinking and mechanics (they got a terrible record). SInce this is a PvP sandbox as all the big mouth 0.0 players have always claimed. Why not nullify all their illicit gains? If that is impossible, just take the 100b form each player and ban them forever afterwards, so they cannot buy new characters (many will have done so already no doubt).
Either way, CCP must act, else this game is rigged for eternity, with so much wealth at the hands of so few that are basically a form a ISK cartel. |
|

Chribba
Otherworld Enterprises Otherworld Empire
3867
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:56:00 -
[1311] - Quote
Nice pixels. I love this game! 
Wonder what will happen now...
|
|

Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
827
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:58:00 -
[1312] - Quote
http://eveinfo.net/wiki/ind~1919.htm
For those who want to know more about Darius JOHNSON. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |

Asuri Kinnes
Adhocracy Incorporated Adhocracy
492
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:58:00 -
[1313] - Quote
corestwo wrote: Yes, CCP's decision is king here, as always, and if they label it an exploit, that's their perogative. However, most players - the ones without an axe to grind, anyway - can look at this and tell that there is a clear difference between an obvious glitch such as in the ferrogel case, and this.
Indeed. Stories like this, stories about massive corp thefts and scams, stories of huge fleet battles - this is what draws people to eve. Stories of mining rocks in empire? Not so much...
No axe to grind here - supported Gameplay (no matter by whom) when it was good. This is obviously not functioning as intended, and so isn't good.
vOv
No biggie - CCP will deal with it how they want.
Flashfresh and his blog, along with "Guiding Hand Social Club" activities brought me originally to Eve - Huge Fleet Battles? Not so much, unless Honor Harrington was in command...
You know there's something fundamentally wrong when the only way people can think of to promote the "best" part of the game is to make everything else suck more. |

Pisov viet
Kaesong Kosmonauts Test Alliance Please Ignore
59
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:58:00 -
[1314] - Quote
Cipher Jones wrote:Pisov viet wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote:corestwo wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote: it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.
Yes, "taking the existing game mechanics to a significant but legitimate extreme" and "abusing a bug that allows your towers to continue to run and produce ferrogel even when inputs are no longer present" are totally the same thing. The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument. Unfortunately for them, CCP has not used this word. In fact, they're using anytonyms of legit. Not a good sign goonies /o\ The only people I've seen use the word abuse are goon haters and people supporting their argument. Checkmate, atheist. Because you didn't read the ******* thread, because you are ******* trolling. Because I actually read the post of Sreeg, and he talked of "manpulation", not "abuse". |

corestwo
Goonfleet Investment Banking
467
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 17:59:00 -
[1315] - Quote
Inspiration wrote:Either way, CCP must act, else this game is rigged for eternity with so much wealth at the hands of so few.
You think that "this much wealth" in so few players hands is anything new?
For example, have you looked at how much Somer Blink has paid out lately, and then considered how much his rake on top of that much be? It makes us look like a bunch of beggars.  |

Ghost Xray
Hedion University Amarr Empire
28
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 18:00:00 -
[1316] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote:corestwo wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote: it just seems on the level of ppl that could duplicate minerals at a POS. It only hurts the game, I'm not a fan, sorry.
Yes, "taking the existing game mechanics to a significant but legitimate extreme" and "abusing a bug that allows your towers to continue to run and produce ferrogel even when inputs are no longer present" are totally the same thing. The only people I've seen use the word legitimate are goons and people supporting their argument. Unfortunately for them, CCP has not used this word. In fact, they're using anytonyms of legit. Not a good sign goonies /o\ Yes, CCP's decision is king here, as always, and if they label it an exploit, that's their perogative. However, most players - the ones without an axe to grind, anyway - can look at this and tell that there is a clear difference between an obvious glitch such as in the ferrogel case, and this. Vokanic wrote:and in both cases it will drive new players to eve. and thats why this is such a fine edged blade that ccp dance on. (and no other game company ever will I suspect) Indeed. Stories like this, stories about massive corp thefts and scams, stories of huge fleet battles - this is what draws people to eve. Stories of mining rocks in empire? Not so much...
True.
But stories about how exploiting factional warfare by blowing up your own ships with alts does not drive new players to a game, unless they hope they too can exploit it, and god knows we don't need more of these types of players.
Do you really think suiciding you own ships into your own alts is "emerging" gameplay?
No, that is a black eye to the CCP dev team and not something they are going to put into a cool video.
|

Tallian Saotome
Fractured Core Fatal Ascension
827
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 18:01:00 -
[1317] - Quote
corestwo wrote:Inspiration wrote:Either way, CCP must act, else this game is rigged for eternity with so much wealth at the hands of so few. You think that "this much wealth" in so few players hands is anything new? For example, have you looked at how much Somer Blink has paid out lately, and then considered how much his rake on top of that much be? It makes us look like a bunch of beggars.  Lets not forget Akita T, or Chribba.
Those are the rich bastards ruining your game. They make most people's wallets look like my RL bank account. Empty. Inappropriate signature removed, CCP Phantom. |

Pr1ncess Alia
Perkone Caldari State
185
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 18:01:00 -
[1318] - Quote
Tallian Saotome wrote:Pr1ncess Alia wrote:Please provide a 10 page essay summarizing your thesis with complete references (I want library stuff, not internet!)  Let's try this again: By way of explanation we addressed the manipulation issue but haven't yet completed the investigation into the scope of the abuse. Once that happens I'm pretty sure some people are going to be a bit less smug about the money they made that one time when there was a bank error in their favor and then lost again when the bank fixed the glitch.You gamed the game. That's an exploit. You didn't make things appear out of thin air, there were 3 steps you had to take first, whoppity-do big difference. I didn't say quote Sreegs, ex-CEO of Goonswarm, the man who said they were there to ruin your game, said in a knee jerk reaction to what at first glance would appear to be a bug(tho a good, solid look shows its usage of game mechanics, for the most part) said. YOU are making accusations. The burden of proof is on YOU. Or are you not familiar with the concept of innocent until PROVEN guilty? Edit: Oh, and don't point fingers at me. I am not a goon, and I am in particular not one of the 5 people who masterminded this.
Are there bugs that are not usage of game mechanics?
Like, they use bugs in other games to make ... wait.
I OBJECT your honor. *points finger* YOU CANT HANDLE THE TRUTH
I doubt it was a knee jerk reaction. It was a follow up to a public company statement about a security investigation, probably had several CCP staff review it, stamp it. Dignitaries of dignitaries and that sort of thing. It's all rather complicated.
They do that type of thing all the time for legit gameplay. |

Cipher Jones
The Thomas Edwards Taco Tuesday All Stars
537
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 18:01:00 -
[1319] - Quote
Quote: Pot, meet kettle.
Kettle, meet pot.
That's a load of horse ****. There's a world of difference between saying something you know will **** someone off, and saying something you know will **** someone off intentionally without reading the thread. We now return you to your regularly scheduled **** poast. |

Ziranda Hakuli
Relativity Holding Corp AAA Citizens
108
|
Posted - 2012.06.22 18:02:00 -
[1320] - Quote
Better Than You wrote:I say set the goon wallet negative the five trillion isk they stole.
No. but you are on the right track of thinking. this is what i think should happen 1> all those in the FW get the isk remoced from their wallet whether they gave it to another toon or corp or alliance. 2> all isk given to a toon, Corp, or alliance wallet is also removed charging a fine to doubling the amount. 3> all those in the FW are 30 day ban including any alt accounts that they may have 4> All those behind the planning are 30 day ban 5> all those who supported this are 60day bans.
With this here ALL the GOONs and their pets would be banned in this for a minimum of 30days and will return to negative wallets. well hopefully negative wallets and their space claimed by someone else. xDeath would have new space then |
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