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satane Amarr EVE Corporation49487	Posted - 2009.12.29 16:03:00 - [1] Please Keep this Thread Clear Of Any Comments If you Would like to Comment please reply to this thread, Which Will also Be used as a Refernece in this case: Click Video Of proof Which was requested The Offering How it Will Work Im looking for as much isk as possible to use to invest so there is no particalar Figure im willing to go up to but im hoping to at least get a couple of Billion ..if that then use it on the contract trade system and everyweek payback 5% of youre original Investment EXAMPLE: You give me Min Of 20Mil To Invest, Every Week Until the Offering Stops i pay 1mil Out, Share Cost And Rules 1 Share = 20mil 5 Shares = 100mil 10 Shares = 200mil 30 Shares = 600mil Maximum Number of shares per person is 30 shares. Who Do I Send The Isk To And How Will I Get Paid? Isk Will be Sent Directly to Me And Youll Also Get isk directly From Me Every Sunday 00:00 GMT When Sending the isk For investment Pls Put in the description of how many shares you are buying, and Please post in this thread how many you bought or you are buying. When Can I Buy In ? Anytime. Why Do You Need The Isk? Ive Only Traded In The Modules On the contract market atm So far They Have Bought me a Nice Profit But Now im Ready To lean over and Go into the ships once again, i have revised certain ships and now is perfect time to invest, NOTE: If i Think There is too much Investment i will simply Stop poeple from buying in (Pause) I Plan For this to be a long term Investment And a new Project Thank you, And If you think i have done this wrong (the way i set it up) then pls post on how i can improve the offering Again Thank you for youre time List Of Current Invester: yakuza warrior, 5 shares Allzat, 15 Shares MigthySpatiqus, 1 share iisauce, 1 share [i]Note: This is not a duplicate thread to my other one ive decided to creat a new post to keep it clean so again if youre buying shares please post in this one and if you want to ask question please post in this one -Sex Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste. Applebabe
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.29 16:14:00 - [2] Originally by: satane Please Keep this Thread Clear Of Any Comments If you Would like to Comment please reply to this thread, Which Will also Be used as a Refernece in this case: Click I'm confused. You're saying that you don't want any discussion in this thread whatsoever and so to reply in the other thread for discussion? I don't agree and I'm saving this quote as the link to the other thread. At any time in the future you could edit the link out of the first post and refer to this thread as a indication of your success in future offerings, whereby you could scam others based on the "bad rep" is hidden away in the other thread. I'm still holding out, so I'm not saying you will do so, but I'm saving the link nonetheless, as it's been done before.
Roguehalo Caldari Kimoto Innovations	Posted - 2009.12.29 16:33:00 - [3] It's totally unnecessary to have 2 threads for 1 minor ipo. CCP should lock one of them
Katellin	Posted - 2009.12.29 16:40:00 - [4] 100mil sent for 5 shares.
satane Amarr EVE Corporation49487	Posted - 2009.12.29 16:41:00 - [5] its quite simple i just want to keep this thread clean so i can see poeple who are posting to invest, that is all, no mind games or anything like that and ive provided a link to my other thread so poeple can see it. just trying to keep it clean and simple, -sex Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste. Applebabe
Cista2 Jita Direct Sale	Posted - 2009.12.29 16:51:00 - [6] Have sent 400 mil isk for 20 shares. To roguehalo: the other thread was a b**** with over 100 posts now after the audit. Nobody wants to track their investment in a thread like that. ---------------------------------------- Buy / sell Jidsale shares here
Randlak	Posted - 2009.12.29 17:00:00 - [7] This testifies to the uselessness of audits. Every single thing that satane claimed Ji Sama could find no evidence of, and yet people are still throwing money at this.
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.29 17:03:00 - [8] Originally by: Randlak This testifies to the uselessness of audits. Every single thing that satane claimed Ji Sama could find no evidence of, and yet people are still throwing money at this. It's not that the audits themselves are useless. It protects the people, like you I see, that listen.
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2009.12.29 17:08:00 - [9] Not happy with your first launch? Info about your current investors. Katellin, 5 shares - 3 posts ever yakuza warrior, 5 shares - 0 posts ever Allzat, 15 Shares - 1 post in MD ever MigthySpatiqus, 1 share - 0 posts ever iisauce, 1 share - 1 day old ALT Your investors have never ever really been on MD before, but just pop up and invest. Get them to post here with their reasons, because this smells like a SCAM. Your audit failed badly, you are a character trader (you could have bought Satane), you can't prove you had 35B in your wallet, and you have random ALT investors. If you want to prove anything, make a film of your wallet journal that shows you had 35B in the summer like you claim.
Allzat Amarr Nitrogen Narcosis.	Posted - 2009.12.29 17:17:00 - [10] Edited by: Allzat on 29/12/2009 17:19:15 Allzat, 15 Shares - 1 post in MD ever That is because I don't throw money at people I don't know. I usually just read in the MD area of the forums. I have known Sextrader for quite a while and trust him with the isk that I have sent him as a loan or else I would have not sent it in the first place. Get your info right before you post pls. Edit: This is also my main NOT an alt account as you stated. -Allzat-

satane Amarr EVE Corporation49487	Posted - 2009.12.29 17:35:00 - [11] please watch the film i made it shows multiple pages of (want to buy) contracts and the items along with it, I have to go back to work now but when i get back ill do a video of my wallet as requested -sex Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste. Applebabe
RJ Nobel Nobel Research and Development	Posted - 2009.12.29 17:46:00 - [12] Interesting. Riethe was discussing a few "ideas" in SCC-Lounge the other day, and one of the scam tactics he mentioned was to use multiple threads to hide the valid concerns. Potential investors who simply skimmed the newest, cleanest thread would be given the impression of a secure investment, while any red flags could be buried in the older threads. Does this mean that Satane = riethe? I don't know. But I firmly believe that multiple threads for one investment is a BIG RED FLAG.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.12.29 17:49:00 - [13] Edited by: Kalrand on 29/12/2009 17:50:01 Originally by: Ji Sama RED FLAG: This is an ALT account. RED FLAG: No disclosure of main character/account. RED FLAG: Account owner is a character trader. RED FLAG: account owner is showing the behavioural patterns of a step stone scammer. RED FLAG: 1000 transactions in 11 months. RED FLAG: Apparently the account owner took a 300M ISK loan just recently. RED FLAG: Account owner already took in investments to the tune of 240M ISK RED FLAG: If the account owner is really worth 30B ISK, I canÆt find any traces of them. RED FLAG: Total Contract Revenue over 11 months = 7.2B RED FLAG: These numbers indicate that the account owner is running at red numbers RED FLAG: Apparently sells at a loss for no known reason (could be trying to cover tracks) YELLOW FLAG: Corporation was founded less than one hour after the creation of Satane. YELLOW FLAG: Possible RMT/Macro connections. YELLOW FLAG: Dubious posting history, with conflicting information being shared. YELLOW FLAG: Spacemagic appear to belong to the same account owner. YELLOW FLAG: Lots of Timecode trading between the above listed characters. GREEN FLAG: Account owner submitted to an audit. This bares repeating in this thread. edit: spelling
Dretzle Omega Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force	Posted - 2009.12.29 17:53:00 - [14] Originally by: RJ Nobel Does this mean that Satane = riethe? /me waits for YGR to confirm this is so.
cosmoray Bella Vista Holdings Corp	Posted - 2009.12.29 18:15:00 - [15] I have spent some time going through satane's history. Talk about a rep grind on the forums. First the rags to riches story, but not posted with sextrader (back in May) The, the CCP took away my name and rep story. Looking for an audit to prove satane is great. Then I get confused because one of the reasons satane wants an audit is to get another loan on June 16th, this is directly after buying Taylor04 on June 6th for 29.5B on June 7th Also satane states he wants a loan for 3B like he just got from jarkovii (post 11), but I realised that jarkovii also belonged to satane found where jarkovii buys GTC's for taylor04 satane unable to raise more cash then fails at selling taylor04 As your a character seller why don't you reactivate taylor04 and sell him for all the cash.
Katellin	Posted - 2009.12.29 18:17:00 - [16] Originally by: cosmoray Your investors have never ever really been on MD before, but just pop up and invest. Get them to post here with their reasons, because this smells like a SCAM. If you really want to know my reasons here they are. I have 2 alts, one is Inquisitor Xan and the other, my main, I won't post however. As I mentioned in another thread with Inquisitor Xan it is thanks to sextrader/satane that I have made most of my isk in-game. As such my investment is as much of a thankyou as anything else. However, I have also gone through all the threads made by satane (including those done by sextrader, runtrade, awesome trader and taylor04) along with looking at finished contracts ingame for all those characters and the pictures and videos made available by satane. Also, as I've said before, I see his activity daily in the contracts market when im using it as well. Ultimately I believe his story. Thats not to say it definately isn't a scam however, for all I know it could be but I don't think it is. As I said, the 100mil is more of a token thankyou than anything else and I won't really miss it if this is a scam.
Kalrand Charles Ponzi School of Business GoonSwarm	Posted - 2009.12.29 18:43:00 - [17] Originally by: Katellin Originally by: cosmoray Your investors have never ever really been on MD before, but just pop up and invest. Get them to post here with their reasons, because this smells like a SCAM. If you really want to know my reasons here they are. I have 2 alts, one is Inquisitor Xan and the other, my main, I won't post however. As I mentioned in another thread with Inquisitor Xan it is thanks to sextrader/satane that I have made most of my isk in-game. As such my investment is as much of a thankyou as anything else. However, I have also gone through all the threads made by satane (including those done by sextrader, runtrade, awesome trader and taylor04) along with looking at finished contracts ingame for all those characters and the pictures and videos made available by satane. Also, as I've said before, I see his activity daily in the contracts market when im using it as well. Ultimately I believe his story. Thats not to say it definately isn't a scam however, for all I know it could be but I don't think it is. As I said, the 100mil is more of a token thankyou than anything else and I won't really miss it if this is a scam. Post with your main. Some random 4-posts-ever alt spouting on about how much they trust satane means nothing around here.
YouGotRipped Ewigkeit	Posted - 2009.12.29 18:45:00 - [18] Originally by: RJ Nobel Interesting. Riethe was discussing a few "ideas" in SCC-Lounge the other day, and one of the scam tactics he mentioned was to use multiple threads to hide the valid concerns. Potential investors who simply skimmed the newest, cleanest thread would be given the impression of a secure investment, while any red flags could be buried in the older threads. You're exaggerating the size of the speck on my windshield. Black Sun Empire
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.12.29 19:35:00 - [19] I am concerned by this new thread, as it is diverting attention away from the most important questions. It took the OP 11 months to burn through 1000 API key logs. ELEVEN MONTHS.... As an example, I burn through 1000 API key logs, in around 7-14 days. And in a couple of days on my main trade character. The logs does not indicate any 35B ever existing within the corporation. I have run some more numbers on the logs I have. Specifically around the dates mentioned in June the 7th. And I found no trace of any amounts over the price of a PLEX. With 1 single oddity, an Orca being bought. Because of the logs I have date back to February. I can make a NAV report for the last 11 months. If he had the amount he claims in his corporation or personal wallet, the NAV would reflect this. His NAV (these are estimates and not accurate, however 35B in liquid ISK, would be reflected in the NAV report as 35B, the inaccuracies are in the valuation of items.) from 29 of May to 29 of June is.... (drumroll) 864M ISK. Now I know EMMA can make some mistakes, and so can I. But since the NAV from the month before ie. 29 of April to 29 of May, shows 1.1B there is no way in hell; that 35B in liquid ISK could have been on that account. It is not my normal practise to insist so much. But I really got a bad taste in my mouth after auditing this venture. I am truly sorry Satane!
iiSauce	Posted - 2009.12.29 22:00:00 - [20] Originally by: cosmoray iisauce, 1 share - 1 day old ALT Not everyone is a noob when they start a new account

satane Amarr EVE Corporation49487	Posted - 2009.12.30 01:20:00 - [21] It took the OP 11 months to burn through 1000 API key logs. Incorrect doesnt show my trading between 01/09 to 06/09 and cant access my wallet till back then either, why i dont know maybe ccp puts a limit on the wallet and how many recent transactions it shows ELEVEN MONTHS.... As an example, I burn through 1000 API key logs, in around 7-14 days. so do i if more.... The logs does not indicate any 35B ever existing within the corporation. incorrent, going to do what it takes to proof this, even though the video shows vast contracting and dates I have run some more numbers on the logs I have. Specifically around the dates mentioned in June the 7th. And I found no trace of any amounts over the price of a PLEX. With 1 single oddity, an Orca being bought. I Never bought an orca...? I sold over 300 CNR's Over 600 CN Missiles i dealt with macherial vindi rattlesnakes and much more All proof is in the video..., It is not my normal practise to insist so much. I understand, Jarkvovii is a very good friend of mine he buys me gtc's from time to time nothing unusal about that, I Have just over 900mil in public isk i am more than greatful for this never thought ill get this much and i will do what i do best with it, -sex Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste. Applebabe
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.12.30 01:28:00 - [22] I agree there is a gab in the logs. They do however show you buying an orca, and can even tell you from who, when, and how much you paid. The logs where weird, I will also state that for the record. Since I can only deal with facts, the facts the logs show me, the audit came out against you. If you want to prove that you bought the character, you can only prove it by posting with it. You can petition to have it opened for a day to apply a plex. One more thing. How can you make a bid for 20B on a character in your very first post? Who is the main behind sextrader? And don't tell me its Tylor, that's an insult to my intelligence.
satane Amarr EVE Corporation49487	Posted - 2009.12.30 01:43:00 - [23] Edited by: satane on 30/12/2009 01:43:24 Ive alays done character trading so isk was always in there account unless im trading, my first trading character was 'runtrade' but after a while and many other character tradings going on i created sextrade and sold my characters off and all isk was in her soon after i wanted a character again lol ( just love character ) so made the post it not like sextrader was my first character or anything ive been playing for over 4 years now and have owned many different character. I would like to personaly thank you again ji for the audit it wasnt a success i agree but it still took you time and patience to do and for that i thank you, p.s did you ever watch the video btw? -sex Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste. Applebabe
Phoebe Halliwel	Posted - 2009.12.30 02:13:00 - [24] Ji, good job on this audit report, it is concise and to the point. Did you send a copy to Sextrader before you released it? I seem to recall Hexxx, Kazuo, Brock and various others doing this before reports were published and it seems to be an important step in clearing up any discrepancies. The new auditors have already been bashed a bit by VV and this kind of argument both adds credence to those points and damages the potential for other new offerers to take up being audited by the newbie auditors. You posted your report; fine. The public sparring crosses the line, since you are rehashing points you made in the audit. Not arguing for or against this offering, although the point about some of the investors being unknowns is a bit biased. Sextrader was well known in the trade channels and on contracts when active. Some of those investors also are. They could be Reithe alts. We could all be. But there are massive numbers of players with large amounts of funds who are highly active in trade channels but avoid MD or the forums generally because of the rantage. I just spot checked an alt corp with a large contract history and found some really odd stuff. Looks OK when I log in and view on the alts in corp, but when you view as an outsider there is a cuttoff point in the contract history and you can't document it through the API. Also discrepancies on wallet because some are bought and sold through corp or alts, so it looks like an appalling thing to audit. Sextrader/satane - you can clear this up by putting a modest cap on the investment so it doesn't look like davraam's offering or a typical ponzi scheme. Also consider getting an established auditor in to create progress reports.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.12.30 02:23:00 - [25] Edited by: Ji Sama on 30/12/2009 02:24:49 I made a lot of mistakes I acknowledge that. In retrospect I should have interviewed the client. Normally I wouldn't rehash points, I just felt they where overlooked, and felt compelled to try and focus attention on them! EDIT: I am not saying my audit is off, I stand by the work I have done. However, more effort should have been put in clearing any misunderstandings, before posting the audit. You should take notice, that I have neither condoned nor condemned this offering. As I would normally have done, had I not audited it.
Hippopotamus Rex	Posted - 2009.12.30 02:31:00 - [26] Edited by: Hippopotamus Rex on 30/12/2009 02:31:34 In fairness to Ji, I think the confusion is Satane's fault. I suspect that most of the information that people are trying to confirm, isn't even on this account. The 35b wasn't. The 30b character transfer payment wasn't. I'm sure the 300 CNRs that Satane claims to have sold wasn't done on this character either. So really, Ji's audit was pretty accurate. Ji says I can't confirm a wealth of over 30b nor trading activity in the billions. If Satane is doing this on another account (the inactive one), then Ji is right - it can't be confirmed. Satane could be acting naive on purpose to stall, or really just not understand whats involved in an offering and subsequent audit. EDIT: Speed of reporting was also of the essence since this was all done mid-offering
satane Amarr EVE Corporation49487	Posted - 2009.12.30 02:45:00 - [27] please view the video to see the items i traded back early this year thats the best proof i can currently give atm, -sex Signature graphics that may only contain your character name, corporation logo, corporation or personal slogan or other text that is directly related to your in-game persona, or content directly related to Eve Online. All content must be in good taste. Applebabe
Phoebe Halliwel	Posted - 2009.12.30 02:57:00 - [28] Originally by: Hippopotamus Rex Edited by: Hippopotamus Rex on 30/12/2009 02:31:34 In fairness to Ji, I think the confusion is Satane's fault. I suspect that most of the information that people are trying to confirm, isn't even on this account. The 35b wasn't. The 30b character transfer payment wasn't. I'm sure the 300 CNRs that Satane claims to have sold wasn't done on this character either. Satane could be acting naive on purpose to stall, or really just not understand whats involved in an offering and subsequent audit. EDIT: Speed of reporting was also of the essence since this was all done mid-offering Yep, agree with all that. Which is why it's necessary to consult the client before publishing the results. Even though the audit is free, satane is still the client. I know Ji has had a good try at this, and I really like the idea of the new auditors (provided they don't f*ck it up). But it's looking botched now on both sides. Might seem odd to view it like this but it looks like a betrayal of trust in some ways to offer to do an audit, rush it, release it without consultation/verfication particularly when there are unusual transactions, then start a slanging match on the forums. It pretty much wipes out satane's chances on the forums, which is unfortunate given that Ji was also subjected to this sort of thing; and not long ago, often because of missinterpretation. If odd stuff pops up in an audit I'd suggest discussing it in the audit thread so the other newbie auditors can have a look and perhaps some of the more experienced ones step in? That way there's also a record of any ongoing problems when auditing. Think the thing to remember here is; there's a balance between catching scams quickly, and encouranging new people to make offerings. It's quite difficult for newcomers to understand both the offerings format and the audit process and that needs to be take into consideration. The secondary market is looking thin at the moment, and stuff like this is worrying because if satane is a competent trader, we just lost any chance of passive investment unless someone steps in to help him sort this out. The confusion is pretty much his fault, but it's not something that can't be resolved if someone actually takes the time to help him. VV does offer some commentary on the financial viability of the offering, and whether the person has the knowledge and ability to deliver. I would think an interview would demonstrate this in addition to the API pull and general checks. satane - sorry to derail your thread even though you have a discussion thread, but it may be better kept here for transparency. Once you are "vetted" you should be able to see your investors anyway. You've updated your subject with a cap but not confirmed it in the thread; you need to do that and clarify why. Also might be worth joining scc-lounge channel in game and chatting to people. If you can't get any further with these audit issues it might be better to consult with someone more experience in addition to Ji to review and consolidate the findings.
Ji Sama Caldari Tash-Murkon Prime Industries Sex Drugs And Rock'N'Roll	Posted - 2009.12.30 03:11:00 - [29] Im willing to pay any expenses associated with an audit, done by a more competent auditor. Heck I will even sponsor 2, and donate 1 Billion ISK to charity, should they find any mistakes in my work. (not counting semantics, grammar and spelling) Reason it was posted as it was, was exactly because of my findings. There where to many RED flags to let it slide. RED flags, that still haven't been answered to any satisfactory degree. I get the feel that Satane knows quite well, what questions to ignore, and what questions to answer. I have never found an API log this holed. NEVER. I pull API logs from more than 10 accounts on a weekly basis. Why would I go out of my way, breach my normal code of conduct, for a measly none important (no insult meant) offering. I could have just not invested in it, and ignored the thread all along. Why do you think I am sticking my neck out. I am not some masochist, that enjoy the accusations, of incompetence, ruining chances for other auditors and being untrustworthy.
Phoebe Halliwel	Posted - 2009.12.30 03:26:00 - [30] Originally by: Ji Sama Why do you think I am sticking my neck out. I am not some masochist, that enjoy the accusations, of incompetence, ruining chances for other auditors and being untrustworthy. My gawd one public audit and you turned into VV Just do what you should have done in the first place and interview the client. Log chat and come back and gloat if you were right. If most of the trading history resides on another character then the audit result is "incomplete" perhaps, rather than woohooo red flag. It's not really your auditing skills that I'm criticising here; it's the delivery. And it's to be expected with the new auditors, I think Breaker already got spanked by Mme Pinkerton, so stop taking it so personally.



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