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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 02:11:00 -
[1]
Since both the "fix the Orca" thread and my other "fix the Orca thread" thread have both been glitched and new posts are not being posted publicly here is yet another thread on the Orca finishing off where the others have been eliminated .........
As an Industrial Command Ship I think the title is a bit misleading due to it's current state of existance.
I have never approved of the maintanence bay although I sappose the idea was that if the rats got to be too much, one could simply store their exhumer in the Orca and jump back out in a combat ship.
Many have argued that as a Command Ship why is their no drone damage bonus to help defend it's fleet ???
Well the main reason there is not a larger drone bay and/or bandwidth / damage bonus is because many will argue that the ship will be used as an alternative in mission running to a mini Dominix.
Would be great for a bit more m3 in the ORE cargohold, the ship is for handing out bonuses and relieving a transport pilot no ???
Or at least make the ship a bit more Ore oriented rather than a catch all middle ground between the Freighter and the Transport that it currently is.
What is really needed is a second version of the Freighter that hauls assembled ships only. You could create a second version of the Orca but it simply doesn't make sense as an Idustrial Command Ship.
We currently have 2 versions of the recon so .........
One version of the Orca could be more of a transport oriented moving hauler but then the bonuses would need to be altered to maximize the class of ship potential so why not just go with a second class of Freighter that seems more logical and size dependent.
The whole idea of an Industrial Command ship being used to haul rigged ships from one region to another seems absurd. Yes we now have a ship to take care of this but seriously should it be the Orca ???
A drone damage bonus wouldn't be a bad thing if bay size and bandwidth remain the same and they shouldn't be increased for any reason concerning the Command Ship role.
Perhaps one day we will be offered a Tech 3 version of the Orca that can be modified in the hanger for either Ship Hauling or Industrial Command but until then lets just get a second version of the Freighter that hauls assembled ships ONLY !!!
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.12.30 02:19:00 -
[2]
the orca is a dual role ship. the mining command ship part is just awesome and its bonuses for that rock. the other part is moving your mining fleet between systems.
orca slowboats to the next target system with hulks in ship maintenance bay and your miner follow in shuttles/frigates. the frigates could even web the orca (any orca pilot will appreciate that!).
also the rigged ship transport "problem" basically got much less urgent when CCP increased the limit for courier contracts to 981k m¦.
making the orca stronger for defense might give you the impression you could leave out defense fleets when mining in less friendly space. but you will still need it in case of hostiles.
all in all i can say the orca is fine as is.
A happy orca pilot.
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 02:30:00 -
[3]
Good points although I do not know of any mining operation that follows the Orca to the belt of choice - if anything they get there before and wait for the orca to hand out the much loved bonuses.
How many mining ships can it haul anyways - not enough !!!
If it's a trek across the region to another system noone wants to slowboat with the Orca pilot all the way there.
Doesn't matter if they are webbing or not, no one bothers.
The fun starts when the Orca arrives and that's that.
We want a drone damage bonus and a different hauler for moving assembled ships - not the Orca !!!
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.12.30 02:45:00 -
[4]
on large scale mining ops you would have dedicated haulers (other orcas, iteron 5) and you would leave the orca in position to function as "jet can".
a cargo rigged orca has 179,000 m¦. which is plenty of space for storing the ore until the haulers come back.
this is another proposal that wants to destroy the versatility of the orca. just this time moving towards the mining side.
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 02:52:00 -
[5]
Yes, destroy the versatility !!!
The Orca should be an Industrial Command Ship not a glorified hauler .........
Have you thought about ice ???
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.12.30 03:01:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Rupicolous
Yes, destroy the versatility !!!
The Orca should be an Industrial Command Ship not a glorified hauler .........
Have you thought about ice ???
yes. we usually mine the ice for our pos ourself. :)
and the orca is both. one of the reason, that makes them a good industrial commandship is the huge cargo bay and the ship maintenance bay. you just cut yourself if you want to destroy that.
I am glad CCP got the orca right. Please leave it as is.
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 03:14:00 -
[7]
Well your certainly welcome to kiss ccp 's a$$ all you like.
As far as this topic is concerned I'd certainly like to see a few more opinions.
Is it a Hauler or a Command Ship ???
and why not more Ore hold instead of it being exploited to hauling tranport loads of general freight ???
You made alot of pilots happy with it's do it all multifuncionality but where's the context .........
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.12.30 03:17:00 -
[8]
wow. running out of arguments?:)
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 03:37:00 -
[9]
I have piloted an Orca on an average of 3-6 hours every few days since it's introduction and never once had a need or desire to use the Maintanace Hanger.
As far as i'm concerned it's simply for pilots with multiple ships that do not want to fly each one back and forth to new destinations.
I would much rather have a larger Ore hold and a drone damage bonus than yet one more alternative to my Transport/Freighter.
This is an Industrial Command ship is it not ???
It should and does see most of it's time being spent in the belts does it not ???
Lets give it a small nurf/bump to help define it's role and place it in a context it's name hint's to.
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 04:03:00 -
[10]
On another note It funcions as a glorified hauler yet requires no Industrial/Transport skills to speak of in order to fly it.
Not only that but it can haul fully assembled ships !!!
where's the Freighter skill ???
You require mining barge lvl 5 along with it's prerequisist yet it can NOT fit a single strip miner ???
and what about the electronic skills that a command ship pilot would usually need ???
If you ask me this ship cost too little / doesn't require enough skill and offers way too much if not too much in the wrong ways
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.12.30 04:11:00 -
[11]
it requires the leadership skills similar to the other commandships.
and for freighters the cargo bonus comes from the racial freighter skill. similarly to that the industrial commandship skill adds the cargo bonus on the orca.
seems to follow the general principle of other ships aswell. still nothing wrong.
and i am not sure where you want to fit the mining lasers (of any kind) on an orca.
my highslots are usually full of the gang links and one tractor beam (for the odd faction wreck that drops from time to time or grabbing a can if we change position in a belt.)
If you want to fly a gang link ship with drone bonuses... how about the myrmidon? maybe thats more your ship?
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Aliraxi
Gallente
Gangrel Mining and Security
High Treason Alliance
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Posted - 2009.12.30 04:27:00 -
[12]
I'm not in the command part of any op that my corp does, but why on earth do you need a drone bonus? If you have you & 3 hulks in a belt, thats 20 medium drones. I don't know of any rat that can take that kind of a beating. If you're having that big of a problem with rats, bring someone with a few guns along. Otherwise, the orca seems fine to me. It's an industrial command ship, there to command an industrial op, which it does quite well. As for people having alt uses for them, people shield tank armor boats and put non-racial guns on their ships too, we're human, we like being innovative.
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 04:27:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Rupicolous on 30/12/2009 04:43:47
I want to fly a ship with alot of cargo capacity for Ore that can hand out at least 3 gang bonuses simultaneously
have adequate drone bay and the abilty to quickly defend itself against NPC's - read (needs to be inline with the Rorqual) the mids are plenty
have a skill level bonus (5% per lvl) to drone damage and Ore caego capacity - with current role bonus to scanners / tractor beam range and velocity
and current Gang mods bonuses per skill level
I shouldn't need a Myrmidon for this and shouldn't be able to use an Orca to haul general freight or rigged ships
As far as the high slots go the point was about the skills required not the the mods it can/cannot fit.
The Orca can target at 60km out yet requires none of the Electronic skills that a Command Ship would need to fly ???
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Aunt Red
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Posted - 2009.12.30 05:35:00 -
[14]
Silliest thread and suggestions I¦ve seen in a long time.
Orca is fine.
It¦s primary role is Industrial Command. More or less perfect for that, if you need more, get a Rorqual. Or better yet, see how and why people use Rorquals (and Orcas, for that matter).
Maintenance bay is fine. It¦s secondary use as a mobile base is incredibly useful. If anything, future improvements should be there, as it¦s what people have been SCREAMING at CCP to give them for years.
It¦s not being used as a ship mover that much. It¦s faster to move the small ships that fit in the Orca the old way. It¦s use as a semi-freighter is not a problem for anyone in the game. It¦s not unbalanced or unfocused or anything of the sort. It¦s perfect for a lot of players.
Drone bonus? Are you kidding? There is absolutely no need for that. EVER. If you use it in low-sec or nullsec without protection, you deserve to lose it. That¦s the only place where anything but medium drones are necessary.
I think I see why your previous threads have been "glitched". You make absoutely no sense.
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 05:47:00 -
[15]
If I want more in Empire ......... a Rorqual does not answer the question.
and your a fool for attacking me rather than the issue.
The previous thread that was glitched was not mine to begin with and the thread I created to address the issue was only 3 posts long acknowledging the fact.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2009.12.30 05:53:00 -
[16]
The one thing that strikes me as odd is that you want drone bonuses for the Orca. Can you give us reasons why?
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 05:59:00 -
[17]
Edited by: Rupicolous on 30/12/2009 06:03:25
Why not ???
Without a larger bay or bandwidth it won't be a mini Dominix for mission running.
I'm not saying a fleet needs it but in low/null sec it sure would help.
It places it in line with the Rorquals 20% per level bonus.
Give it 5% to Drone hitpoints and damage per level and consider it an Industrial Command Ship under the same catagory as the Rorqual.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2009.12.30 06:03:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Rupicolous
Why not ???
Without a larger bay or bandwidth it won't be a mini Dominix for mission running.
I'm not saying a fleet needs it but in low/null sec it sure would help.
It places it in line with the Rorquals 20% per level bonus.
I hope you realize that "why not???" is never a good reason for a modification on a pre-existing ship...
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 06:08:00 -
[19]
Well looks like we have another narrow minded post using selective memory on the ideas being presented.
There are several nurf/boosts i'm suggesting and some of them are simply being ignored.
Attack me all you like the issues will still remain.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2009.12.30 06:16:00 -
[20]
Originally by: Rupicolous
Well looks like we have another narrow minded post using selective memory on the ideas being presented.
and your a fool for attacking me rather than the issue.
Originally by: Rupicolous
There are several nurf/boosts i'm suggesting and some of them are simply being ignored.
Attack me all you like the issues will still remain.
Show me one instance where I have attacked you instead of your idea that the Orca needs a drone boost. Quote it, please. I take it that you concede that the drone boost idea is unnecessary and should not be implemented then? Since you didn't provide any argument to counter my points.
I think your other ideas are passable, and can have the potential to be implemented if they fit CCP's envisioned role for the Orca. However, I am not clear on whether or not the current role of the Orca is what was intended, so I cannot comment.
and your a fool for attacking me rather than the issue.
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 06:27:00 -
[21]
I'm trying to refine it's intended role away from the transporting aspect of it's current capabilities.
As for your other comments ......... you seem to have it all mixed up dude.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2009.12.30 06:32:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Rupicolous
I'm trying to refine it's intended role away from the transporting aspect of it's current capabilities.
Exactly, and I think your other ideas fit with your intentions. However, I don't see the point of having drone bonuses.
Originally by: Rupicolous
As for your other comments ......... you seem to have it all mixed up dude.
I find your lack of arguments disturbing. I take it that you agree that the Orca doesn't need drone bonuses?
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 06:36:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Rupicolous
Edited by: Rupicolous on 30/12/2009 06:03:25
Why not ???
Without a larger bay or bandwidth it won't be a mini Dominix for mission running.
I'm not saying a fleet needs it but in low/null sec it sure would help.
It places it in line with the Rorquals 20% per level bonus.
Give it 5% to Drone hitpoints and damage per level and consider it an Industrial Command Ship under the same catagory as the Rorqual.
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 06:42:00 -
[24]
There's your quote dude ........ !!!
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2009.12.30 06:44:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Rupicolous
Edited by: Rupicolous on 30/12/2009 06:03:25
Why not ???
Without a larger bay or bandwidth it won't be a mini Dominix for mission running.
I'm not saying a fleet needs it but in low/null sec it sure would help.
It places it in line with the Rorquals 20% per level bonus.
Give it 5% to Drone hitpoints and damage per level and consider it an Industrial Command Ship under the same catagory as the Rorqual.
Do I have to repeat myself once more? "Why not" is not a valid reason.
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 06:49:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Rupicolous on 30/12/2009 06:49:55
Your wasting our time DUDE ......... let it go !!!
Your taking it out of context, it was simply my introduction to the other points in the post.
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James Tritanius
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Posted - 2009.12.30 06:53:00 -
[27]
Yes, I am wasting my time. This debate is going in circles as you are one of those guys who refuse to concede points. No more free bumps will come from me.
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 06:55:00 -
[28]
Back to the Orca then ------> Thanx !!!
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 07:07:00 -
[29]
Unbelievable - this guy wanted to debate weather " Why not ??? " is or isn't a " valid reason " .........
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 07:17:00 -
[30]
I'm logging for now
I'll try and check back in a bit later
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