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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 08:13:00 -
[31]
I want to fly a ship with alot of cargo capacity for Ore that can hand out at least 3 gang bonuses simultaneously
have adequate drone bay and the abilty to quickly defend itself against NPC's - read (needs to be inline with the Rorqual) the mids are plenty.
have a skill level bonus (5% per lvl) to Drone damage and Ore cargo capacity - with current role bonus to scanners / tractor beam range and velocity
Current leadership bonuses are well thought out and need no adjusting.
The Orca can target at 60km out yet requires none of the Electronic skills that a Command Ship would need to fly ???
The Orca has a larger general Cargo Hold than the Ore Hold and can haul assembled ships yet requires none of the Industrial/Freighter skills that a normal hauler would need to fly ???
The Orca requires Mining Barge Level 5 yet cannot fit a single strip miner ???
You cannot deny the fact of this ship being rushed into an expansion to simply calm the masses and immediately fill several voids - rethink it and get it right !!!
The ship looks beautiful and almost reaches it's potential in the belts but it's role needs refining and the skills required to fly it leave me confused.
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PaulTheWise
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Posted - 2009.12.30 09:48:00 -
[32]
 Originally by: Rupicolous
The Orca should be an Industrial Command Ship not a glorified hauler .........
Hmm, let me see, it can haul stuff, check, industrial. It can provide gang bonuses, check, command ship. Just where is it not fulfilling its role, as I don't see it?
Quote:
have adequate drone bay and the abilty to quickly defend itself against NPC's - read (needs to be inline with the Rorqual) the mids are plenty.
Have you ever actually parked it in a high-sec belt? Dock in a pod, undock in your shiny new n00b-ship and warp to a belt, presto, a passive shield tanker for your belts...  I mean, if I can tank and kill belt-rats on a week old account using zero skills, 1 small railgun, 1 rocket launcher and 2 civilian shield boosters (maybe even one, haven't tried), why the hell do you need drone bonuses? Mind you, i was _alone_ in the belt, the orca is likely to have a few hulks around -> plenty of small or medium drones to kill them off.
Quote:
The Orca has a larger general Cargo Hold than the Ore Hold and can haul assembled ships yet requires none of the Industrial/Freighter skills that a normal hauler would need to fly ???
A hulk has 8k m3, more than an Iteron V has, and yet it requires none if the Industrial/Freighter skills that an Industrial class (descendant) hauler needs? Besides, training for an orca takes some 50 days, twice as long as a freighter that can carry 5 times as much, so what's your point? You want the nerf the orca so it takes longer before you can fly it by adding in (racial) industrial? Would you mind telling me which race you had in mind?
In my opinion, you are whining like a spoiled brat; "I want, I want, waah, waah" without providing arguments why these things should be changed. "Why not?" is indeed not an argument.
You are (intelligebly, good  ) questioning the skill requirements; I think they are what they are to both keep the total time in check and to make a better link to its intended role: support mining fleets.
However, intended roles are just that: intentions thought out by the developers. I'm quite sure there are several fields where the player base is using things in ways the developers never thought of. An no, the number of exploits amongst them is very minor.
Quote:
You cannot deny the fact of this ship being rushed into an expansion to simply calm the masses and immediately fill several voids - rethink it and get it right !!!
Wait, what? It's been around for quite some time, Dominion did not introduce it. The Orca is quite a nice ship, loved almost universally, you're about the only one ranting about it? I'd say it already is 'right'?
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 16:35:00 -
[33]
Nice post, although I still feel the Orca needs some polish.
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Damien Arcuri
Empire Black Market
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Posted - 2009.12.30 16:41:00 -
[34]
What about adding two low-slot modules that can only be fitted on an Orca.
1. Industrial Cargohold Expander, reduces ship maintenance bay to 50k m^3, cargo goes from 30k to 60k unrigged, ore bay goes from 50k to 100k. Also grants 50% bonus to drone HP and DPS.
2. Industrial Maintenance Bay Upgrade, reduces cargo 90% to 3k unrigged, ore bay 100% to 0k, corp hangar 75% to 10k, and doubles ship maintenance bay to 800k m^3.
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 17:09:00 -
[35]
"I'm trying to refine it's intended role away from the transporting aspect of it's current capabilities."
If you gave the Orca a Drone bonus perhaps the whole - parking the mining vessel - stopping cycles - to jump in a combat ship - could be set aside.
Yes of course 5 drones on each mining vessel usually gets it done but what's the point of the Maintanence Bay then ???
I would rather fly my own Exhumer to a belt than store it in a slower aligning Orca piloted by someone else.
I'm not suggesting a Freighter skill but if anyone is spoiled it's the entire Orca piloting community.
I'm not even suggesting a Transport skill because as far as i'm concerned there should be very little ganeral freight hauling capability period.
Why does it require Mining barge lvl 5 and the prereqs ???
Just in case the Orca pilot loses his ship he can go back into a mining vessel to earn the isk for another Orca ????
Like i've previously stated it needs readjustment - the skilling makes little sense if any and it's hauling capabilities belong to another class of ship.
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Slimy Chicky
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Posted - 2009.12.30 17:36:00 -
[36]
Edited by: Slimy Chicky on 30/12/2009 17:36:56
To creator of the opening thread has a correct point.
A ( Industrial Command Ship ) should command and support a fleet.
But the Orca is failing on all points.
* Mining Support = Not much room for ore.
* Fleet Support = Not much room for fitted ships.
* Defence = Not much drone cap / support.
NEW CONCEPT
( Bay Rigs )
So I think its time to introduce a new system called ( Bay Rigs ). Just give the Orca a fix amount of Bay Rig points and let the pilot fit the correct bays for the job that needs to be done.
* Ore Bay Rig
* Ship Bay Rig
* Cargo Bay Rig
* Drone Bay Rig
* Corp Bay Rig
Let me know what you all think of this concept.
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 17:43:00 -
[37]
I like the idea of being able to reconfigure the bays of various ships throughout the entire spectrum of ship classes although at this point I have to admit, it is creeping into Tech 3 territory.
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2009.12.30 21:00:00 -
[38]
Edited by: darius mclever on 30/12/2009 21:00:37
Originally by: Rupicolous
I want to fly a ship with alot of cargo capacity for Ore that can hand out at least 3 gang bonuses simultaneously
"I want, I want, I want"
Originally by: Rupicolous
have adequate drone bay and the abilty to quickly defend itself against NPC's - read (needs to be inline with the Rorqual) the mids are plenty.
have a skill level bonus (5% per lvl) to Drone damage ....
I am not sure where you are mining, but the defensive capabilities of one orca and a few hulks against NPCs are plenty, as someone pointed out in the thread already.
But hey ignoring valid arguments is too easy isnt it?
Originally by: Rupicolous
... and Ore cargo capacity - with current role bonus to scanners / tractor beam range and velocity
You already have that 5% cargo capacity bonus? just on a different bay on your ship.
Originally by: Rupicolous
Current leadership bonuses are well thought out and need no adjusting.
*wow* i am amazed you found something where you cant complain!
Originally by: Rupicolous
The Orca can target at 60km out yet requires none of the Electronic skills that a Command Ship would need to fly ???
Ugh you got crappy skills. the orca can target 75km, which is in line with its tractor beam range. (70km).
Originally by: Rupicolous
The Orca has a larger general Cargo Hold than the Ore Hold and can haul assembled ships yet requires none of the
Industrial/Freighter skills that a normal hauler would need to fly ???
Why should it? your argumentation falls pretty short here.
Originally by: Rupicolous
The Orca requires Mining Barge Level 5 yet cannot fit a single strip miner ???
It is a mining support vessel and hauling ship. not a mining ship. if you want to help with that launch some mining drones.
Originally by: Rupicolous
You cannot deny the fact of this ship being rushed into an expansion to simply
calm the masses and immediately fill several voids - rethink it and get it right !!!
The ship looks beautiful and almost reaches it's potential in the belts but it's role needs refining
and the skills required to fly it leave me confused.
I can, it is a perfectly balanced ship which you try to destroy.
Did you notice that not a *single* poster really agreed with you? Reposting your "I want, I want" wont get you anywhere. It is "argumentation" style of a 5y old who wants more vanilla ice.
(edit: fixing a typo)
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.12.30 21:36:00 -
[39]
The orca is not broken and does not need fixing.
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Thera Romana
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Posted - 2009.12.30 22:43:00 -
[40]
The current ORCA while many may like it, is not a mining command ship. Its 30% of everything.
Leave the current ORCA, but change its role to mining support ship, seeing as how it does not require any industrial skills.
the current orca is a high sec only(0.0 that is all blue might as well be high sec). give it 2 turret slots for defense or mining lasers(not stripminers) with 4 miners an orca is filled every 30 mins. its a good 5 min turn around time of not on station to go empty out, that 5 mins no bonus's
ORE needs to make more ships.
True command ship(more about commanding(commanders dont leave to make ore runs)) think all the other command ships, and just make the link bonus, mining.
Gas mining ship.********* ********** ********
medium and large mining drones. ECM drones come in sizes, logistic drones come in sizes, and combat drones come in sizes so why not mining.
ORE frigates, cruisers, BC(T2 would be command) all with ore bays bigger than race simular ships, but small cargo holds.(think faction type ships)
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.30 23:26:00 -
[41]
Edited by: Rupicolous on 30/12/2009 23:30:06
Darius Mclever has some very original and interesting ideas and I appreciate his candor .........
but on the other hand,
"I'm trying to refine it's intended role away from the transporting aspect of it's current capabilities".
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.12.31 02:06:00 -
[42]
Originally by: Thera Romana
the current orca is a high sec only(0.0 that is all blue might as well be high sec).
Nonsense. The orca can be fitted with a cloak and makes an excellent mobile base for a small fleet anywhere in 0.0 or w-space. It has one advantage that other ships with maintenance bays don't - it's small enough to use gates (and most wormholes).
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.31 03:18:00 -
[43]
Edited by: Rupicolous on 31/12/2009 03:23:26
So like the 2 versions of Recons, we could still go with a Combat Orca and a Mining Orca.
Bonuses would remain identical except for the Combat Orca replaces the Tractor Beam role bonuses with something a bit more in line with the Rorqual
Perhaps the Cargo and Survey scanner bonus -
Then of course add on at least a skill bonus for Remote Repair of 3% per level -
and possibly even a Drone damage and Hitpoint bonus of 3% per level as well.
I'm not sure anything can be done about the skills required for this ship as it is already widely used and prices have settled towards the actual cost.
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ResKriv
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Posted - 2009.12.31 03:48:00 -
[44]
Edited by: ResKriv on 31/12/2009 03:54:05
Well I know from the corp mining ops I've been running my orca in, we dont use it as a transport untill the belt is cleared. Its more of a secure jet can for the haulers to pull from and having 2 extra hulks in the ship maint bay gives the guys that have barges 15-20 jumps away a bunch of saved time... I see no problems with it. 3 gang links a 70 km tractor beam... Im happy.
I just a little curious on how you are using the ship if you want these changes? Also a little more reason to why you think the changes you purpose are better might help your cause.
signed,
a spoiled orca owner. 
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.31 04:20:00 -
[45]
For the most part I still see it as a jack of several trades.
It should have a more defined role like most of the other ship classes.
The Orca is currently a Command ship / Transport the can haul assembled ships.
Give the hauling capabilities to another ship/class and extend the focus on Ore to it's current existance.
Wouldn't hurt to add a Drone skill bonus keeping it line with it's big brother the Rorqual.
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.31 05:18:00 -
[46]
Edited by: Rupicolous on 31/12/2009 05:25:52
- Tanker Command Ship -
1 - Tanker Command Ship
5 - Spaceship Command
4 - Transport Ships
5 - Mechanic
5 - Engineering
3 - Electronics
3 - Signature Analysis
3 - Long Range targeting
5 - Leadership
4 - Warfarelink Specialist
3 - Navigation
3 - Warp Drive
This should place it in line with the other Command Ships and give it the focus it deserves for both versions.
The current version has Industry and Science skills and for a ship that doesn't fit strip miners or compress ore, it really doesn't make much sense.
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Santiago Fahahrri
Galactic Geographic
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Posted - 2009.12.31 11:47:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Rupicolous
For the most part I still see it as a jack of several trades.
This is what makes it good. You're trying to change the best part.
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Rupicolous
Gallente
Higher Ground
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Posted - 2009.12.31 16:35:00 -
[48]
Ya I know .........
I should be happy it was so easy to get into and appreciate it's relativly low price but even though I pilot this ship serveral hours every day I can't help but think how much more bold it could be with just a bit more refinement.
I've said my peace and will leave it be now.
Mining fleets are without a doubt better off now than before it was introduced.
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Korliko
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Posted - 2009.12.31 22:58:00 -
[49]
There is only one improvement I'd like to see with the Orca and that is another 5,000 m3 added to the ore hold. That way it can hold two jet cans worth of ore.
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ResKriv
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Posted - 2010.01.01 09:16:00 -
[50]
Alright, so here is what i have on my orca for cargo.... mind you that i have a bout 2k m3 of spare crystals in the corp bay for my mining alt and corpies..
Cargohold - 89,000 m3
Ore Hold - 50,000 m3
Corp Hanger - 40,000 m3 +/- 2-3k m3
= 179,000 m3 +/- some ( see above )
I think you need to skill up a bit my friend, you can hold way more then 1 jumpcan in these babies.
And as I have said before, as is the orca works just fine as a mining command ship.
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Korliko
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Posted - 2010.01.02 01:35:00 -
[51]
Originally by: ResKriv
Alright, so here is what i have on my orca for cargo.... mind you that i have a bout 2k m3 of spare crystals in the corp bay for my mining alt and corpies..
Cargohold - 89,000 m3
Ore Hold - 50,000 m3
Corp Hanger - 40,000 m3 +/- 2-3k m3
= 179,000 m3 +/- some ( see above )
I think you need to skill up a bit my friend, you can hold way more then 1 jumpcan in these babies.
And as I have said before, as is the orca works just fine as a mining command ship.
Thats funny, my Cargohold on my Orca hold over 93,000 m3. I don't think I can skill up any higher. thanks anyways though 
I was talking about the 'Ore Hold' my friend.
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