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Megabot10k
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Posted - 2010.01.02 23:09:00 -
[1]
I know this might have been done to death, and from what i've read the Golem is the way to go, but since Dominion came out, ive heard wonderful things about the Vargur. So my question is this, which maruader should i ultimately aim for? I am currently goin for a Golem, but dont care training into something else. The ship will most likely be used in Gallente space, with possible ventures into Caldari or Min space.
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Lord Zekk
Caldari
22nd Black Rise Defensive Unit
General Panic.
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Posted - 2010.01.02 23:26:00 -
[2]
Depends on what you wanna do with it. Most of the time it's pve but there are always those that like to pvp in em
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debbie harrio
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Posted - 2010.01.02 23:28:00 -
[3]
The Vargur was always a very close second behind the Golem, better for Angels.
Now it is a decimating uber maurader.
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.01.02 23:30:00 -
[4]
Matar is the way to go ,as their battleships/capitals are much better if you ever want to use that bs lvl5 for else than pve.
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Hera Ominae
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Posted - 2010.01.02 23:46:00 -
[5]
So Paladin sucks now?
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Namira Sable
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Posted - 2010.01.03 00:00:00 -
[6]
 Originally by: Hera Ominae
So Paladin sucks now?
Reading the above posts I see what you mean =(
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d3vo
The Missionaries
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Posted - 2010.01.03 00:41:00 -
[7]
Paladin is always #1.
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fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2010.01.03 00:48:00 -
[8]
Edited by: fuxinos on 03/01/2010 00:49:51
Originally by: debbie harrio
The Vargur was always a very close second behind the Golem, better for Angels.
Now it is a decimating uber maurader.
Paladin is first by faaaaar, somewhere in the shadow behind the Paladin you can see the Golem and the Vargur if you got good eyes :)
But since Dominion, I can see Vargur > Golem I think.
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Jesslyn Daggererux
Private Nuisance
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Posted - 2010.01.03 01:31:00 -
[9]
hitting a frig at 100k with autos is pretty sexy
Originally by: CCP Fallout
Hola, esta forum es ingles solamente.
This forum is English only. Welcome to my lock. Now please, zip your pants. I don't need a show.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2010.01.03 02:32:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux
hitting a frig at 100k with autos is pretty sexy
Speaking from experience: hitting a frig at 100km with Tachs is perfectly normal.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Zeba
Minmatar
Honourable East India Trading Company
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Posted - 2010.01.03 03:06:00 -
[11]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux
hitting a frig at 100k with autos is pretty sexy
Speaking from experience: hitting a frig at 100km with Tachs is perfectly normal.
-Liang
Now now don't go ruining their newfound fun. I will also add that with the introduction of nearly pure damage type projectile ammo you can now take your Vargur into gallente and amarr missions and do quite well.
Originally by: Akita T
We don't hate people like you, we look at you with mostly pity and a hint of disgust balled up in a big wad of "notto disu shi'tto agen".
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Diomidis
Amarr
Mythos Corp
RAZOR Alliance
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Posted - 2010.01.03 03:26:00 -
[12]
The Vargur now combines the instant dmg off turrets with dmg selectivity and shield tanking.
The Paladin may do better as it's effective dps are higher when NPC resistances and fighting range allow, yet the Vargur is more versatile due to good range and dmg selectivity.
All-in-all, if would choose the path that's closer for each: T2 lazors and armor tank, or T2 ACs and shield tank...
And off course if you want to fight against Angels etc, Paladin is not the optimal solution...
Join the Biggest Greek Corp!
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Elsa Nietzsche
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Posted - 2010.01.03 04:41:00 -
[13]
let there be no confusion, the Kronos is last.
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Millsy1
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Posted - 2010.01.03 05:12:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Millsy1 on 03/01/2010 05:12:23
But the Kronos can have 10000+ m3 cargo hold! it must be good for something.. lol
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fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2010.01.03 05:34:00 -
[15]
Its not realy the Kronos that is bad, its Railguns being pretty poor overall.
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MarieFrance Tessier
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Posted - 2010.01.03 06:37:00 -
[16]
Edited by: MarieFrance Tessier on 03/01/2010 06:38:36
Originally by: fuxinos
Its not realy the Kronos that is bad, its Railguns being pretty poor overall.
More, it's that the Kronos is the only race's ship that is forced to use the long-range weapon system because BLASTERS are not worth it for PVE. The two pure-PVE solutions would be to:
1) Increase Serpentis bounty and give them 150km orbits
or
2) Increase Serpentis speed and give them 5km orbits.
Since 2 just makes Serpentis into Angels, I think 1 would be an interesting change. Make Gallente missions have a few more with high-bounty 150km away rats from warpin that just run from you. Not all the time or the Domi would be sad, just a little more often.
This would at least give the Kronos (and the Rohk, really) the odd niche of dealing with specialist Serpentis rats. The web bonus would need to change, though, I guess.
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Neurotica Zeshi
Gallente
Worst Case Scenario.
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Posted - 2010.01.03 08:44:00 -
[17]
Originally by: fuxinos
Its not realy the Kronos that is bad, its Railguns being pretty poor overall.
More, it's that the Kronos is the only race's ship that is forced to use the long-range weapon system because BLASTERS are not worth it for PVE. The two pure-PVE solutions would be to:
1) Increase Serpentis bounty and give them 150km orbits
or
2) Increase Serpentis speed and give them 5km orbits.
Since 2 just makes Serpentis into Angels, I think 1 would be an interesting change. Make Gallente missions have a few more with high-bounty 150km away rats from warpin that just run from you. Not all the time or the Domi would be sad, just a little more often.
This would at least give the Kronos (and the Rohk, really) the odd niche of dealing with specialist Serpentis rats. The web bonus would need to change, though, I guess.
What an idiot
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Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.01.03 09:58:00 -
[18]
Paladin? if you fit tachs then do you have problem hitting at close range?
Also could you post a fit so I could compare it with my vargur's?
Because in many missions npc-s come close.
Vargur is still much better imho, as it can adapt its dmg type ,no need to refit it up to different missions.
And as missions after each other offer different type of npcs.
And EMP ammo does 36 base em dmg while multifreq only does 28 ,dont know how much it helps the vargur to deal more dmg on low em resist npcs but it is there. Same with thermal PhasedP does 40 base thermal vs 20 thermal on multifreq.
Seems to me that vargur applies its dmg much more efficiently than the paladin.
The paladin only does better against npc farther than 60km and having both low em/thermal resists(those usually use tracking disruptors also :P) at everything else the vargus is just better.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2010.01.03 10:27:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Paladin? if you fit tachs then do you have problem hitting at close range?
IME, nothing really gets that close that doesn't immediately try to normalize its distance (which is to say - reduce transversal to 0 and run!). I hit just fine in Damsel and Stop the Thief.
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Hera Ominae
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Posted - 2010.01.03 11:45:00 -
[20]
From my experience the real order goes like this...
Paladin > Vargur > Golem > Kronos
Just because the mission running speed is that. I had caldari beast Golem pilot, nearly everything maxed out and T2 rigged Golem. Still I had to use afterburner if I wanted just smash through the missions instead of waiting them to arrive into range. Actually pretty fast I sold Golem and took back the pimped CNR wich did around 500-600 dps, while Golem sure did more with javelins, but the range! And the huge problem with Golem is the fact that many NPC's just kill your DPS with defenders.
Paladin with tachyons... OMFG that's awesome. It just melts everything...
Vargur was ok against angels, now it's alright against everything. Being able to deal damage straight away is the key in mission running.
I think now we are in situation where Kronos is only one out of the balance. Blasterkronos with AB is fun, but mission must be like damsel in distress. Kronos with rails is just so sad thing... Low skilled raven pilot with t1 fit does it better...
Right now I think you should train Vargur and Paladin for perfect mission runner. If you are caldari, keep with it. CNR and Golem are great options, use both.
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EvilTwin I
Infinite Improbability Inc
Mostly Harmless
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Posted - 2010.01.03 14:29:00 -
[21]
PVP:
Vargur = win
Kronos = win
*Kronos, impressive for guriastas npcs
PVE:
Paladin
Golem = 105ms tug-boat with No scrampoint, Gl for solo-pvp
*Golem is the most boring "afk'ish" ship of em all
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Deb Dukar
Minmatar
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Posted - 2010.01.03 15:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux
hitting a frig at 100k with autos is pretty sexy
Speaking from experience: hitting a frig at 100km with Tachs is perfectly normal.
-Liang
but hitting a frig @ 10km with tachs would the 8th wonder of the world
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Lirielee
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Posted - 2010.01.03 15:48:00 -
[23]
few frigs that will get close will be killed by drones (although i dont have any real paladin experience i'm guessing the nightmare is much like it) Also if its a close range mission like damsel you have the option of just fitting 4 mega pulse II's that will tear it apart, although tachs will 2 but a bit slower
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fuxinos
Caldari
Guys 0f Sarcasm
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Posted - 2010.01.03 17:37:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Paladin? if you fit tachs then do you have problem hitting at close range?
Also could you post a fit so I could compare it with my vargur's?
Because in many missions npc-s come close.
Vargur is still much better imho, as it can adapt its dmg type ,no need to refit it up to different missions.
And as missions after each other offer different type of npcs.
And EMP ammo does 36 base em dmg while multifreq only does 28 ,dont know how much it helps the vargur to deal more dmg on low em resist npcs but it is there. Same with thermal PhasedP does 40 base thermal vs 20 thermal on multifreq.
Seems to me that vargur applies its dmg much more efficiently than the paladin.
The paladin only does better against npc farther than 60km and having both low em/thermal resists(those usually use tracking disruptors also :P) at everything else the vargus is just better.
Well, I for myself snipe everything from small to big.
There is only 1 mission I think, where I do need to get my drones out. I dont remember the name anymore, but its the 1 with first pocket having some drone npcs, second some merc npcs and third that guy you got to kill.
In that 2nd stage I need drones for frigs.
In terms of damage, you probably dont see the huge damage a Paladin does and seeing that they changed nothing at how falloff works, your Vargur with 100K falloff still only does 60-70% of 1000 dps at 50KM where a Paladin still does 100% of 1000 dps.
The other fact is, fighting for Amarr gives you barley Guristas missions and in the Angel missions, your Paladin is still easily on paar with a CCNR (tested  ).
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Terianna Eri
Amarr
Senex Legio
Get Off My Lawn
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Posted - 2010.01.03 19:01:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Deb Dukar
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Jesslyn Daggererux
hitting a frig at 100k with autos is pretty sexy
Speaking from experience: hitting a frig at 100km with Tachs is perfectly normal.
-Liang
but hitting a frig @ 10km with tachs would the 8th wonder of the world
My Paladin has 2x tracking computers and a 14km 90% web fitted so you actually can nail frigs at close range (10km, 5km is trickier).
Additionally since you're faster than a 90% webbed frigate even with just the ship's base velocity you can pull range on 'em if you want to.
________________
Originally by: CCP Incognito
PS the "time to P*nis" is the shortest time recorded in human history. :)
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Ogogov
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Posted - 2010.01.04 11:10:00 -
[26]
I trained into a Kronos last month and absolutely love it, despite CCP's irrational gallente hate making it arguably the 'worst' marauder out there due to a mishmash of poor game mechanic bonuses and weak weapons.
Its really the tractor beams that make the biggest difference :)
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Lord Morgo
Gallente
LEGI0N
SOUL CARTEL
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Posted - 2010.01.04 11:28:00 -
[27]
Having had a Kronos for 6 months now, I gotta say blasters+null=win. You get a tractor range of 40km, why would you need to kill anything outside of it? 
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2010.01.04 16:35:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Deb Dukar
but hitting a frig @ 10km with tachs would the 8th wonder of the world
TBH, if you're locking a frig that's under your guns, you're doing it wrong. I can understand sniping the frigs 50-70km out because you aren't interested in their salvage/loot. But once they're under your guns? Meh, drone food. TBH, you sound like all the Tengu pilots "BUT IT TAKES A BS SO LONG TO LOCK A FRIG!"
....
Yeah, but why are you locking frigs?!?!
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
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Posted - 2010.01.04 17:23:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Liang Nuren
Originally by: Deb Dukar
but hitting a frig @ 10km with tachs would the 8th wonder of the world
TBH, if you're locking a frig that's under your guns, you're doing it wrong. I can understand sniping the frigs 50-70km out because you aren't interested in their salvage/loot. But once they're under your guns? Meh, drone food. TBH, you sound like all the Tengu pilots "BUT IT TAKES A BS SO LONG TO LOCK A FRIG!"
....
Yeah, but why are you locking frigs?!?!
-Liang
Locking is needed for drone control or they just do whatever they want ,which is bad.
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Liang Nuren
The Lollypop Factory
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Posted - 2010.01.04 17:43:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Locking is needed for drone control or they just do whatever they want ,which is bad.
Your assertion that "drones doing what they want is bad" is just that - an assertion. Sadly, it's the wrong assertion. Using light drones (for me, IME, which is not insignificant at all) results in the drones clearing out frigates first, and then moving on to cruisers. Sometimes they get hung up on aggression order - but that generally gets sorted out pretty quickly and requires locking no more than 1 frig through the whole mission (to reassign drone aggro).
-Liang
--
Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire
www.kwikdeath.org |
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