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what frig is best suited vs a rifter?

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Slurricane	Posted - 2010.01.06 23:25:00 - [1] I am noticing that nearly all T1 frig fights i come across are rifters. Is there a particular 'rifter killer' T1 frig build or do i simply need to outskill/fit in a rifter myself?
Ecky X Shade. Cry Havoc.	Posted - 2010.01.06 23:41:00 - [2] Bring a gun to a knife fight: Thrasher The only ship that has a chance of beating a Rifter, with standard fittings, is probably the Punisher.
James Lyrus Lyrus Associates The Star Fraction	Posted - 2010.01.07 00:03:00 - [3] Rifters are very good ships. Very good indeed. But ... well, they can be beaten. Personally, I'd go with "merlin of doom": [Merlin, Merlin of Doom!] Micro Auxiliary Power Core I Damage Control II Cold-Gas I Arcjet Thrusters Medium Shield Extender II Warp Scrambler II Stasis Webifier II Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Phalanx Rocket Light Ion Blaster II, Null S Light Ion Blaster II, Null S Small Anti-EM Screen Reinforcer I Small Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I Small Core Defence Field Extender I
lolirepu	Posted - 2010.01.07 00:07:00 - [4] My Tristan and incursus do fine against rifters
yani dumyat Minmatar Pixie Cats	Posted - 2010.01.07 00:22:00 - [5] Blaster ships like the merlin will usually win against a rifter at close range, the problem is that rifters are faster and can pull range with barrage in a way that null just can't match. Fortunately there's a lot of **** poor rifter pilots who don't understand this. _________________________________________________ Lifeboat ----> + Human
Andrea Griffin	Posted - 2010.01.07 00:35:00 - [6] Edited by: Andrea Griffin on 07/01/2010 00:36:30 That is the Merlin fit that I have used to take down rifters. It works very well. NOT a guaranteed win of course, but the Merlin can hold its own. A kiting fit with a MWD may also be worth trying. Very few people will put artillery on a rifter, so you'll be pretty deep into falloff if you can keep a stable orbit around 15km or so with a long point. Just theory - never tried it myself. Since I'm in the realm of Theory Craft anyways... What the hell. Why not a solo Griffin? [Griffin, Rifter Killer] 'Hypnos' Signal Distortion Amplifier I Enfeebling Phase Inversion ECM I 1MN Afterburner II Stasis Webifier II Warp Scrambler II Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket Rocket Launcher II, Caldari Navy Thorn Rocket 125mm Railgun II, Caldari Navy Antimatter Charge S Small Bay Loading Accelerator I Small Warhead Calefaction Catalyst I [empty rig slot] Hobgoblin II x1 Rifter's sensor strength is only 8; the jamming strength of the single jammer on there is more than that, so you'll have him permanently jammed. The only trick left is to keep him in range long enough to wear him down. That will be easy; since he can't target you, he can't web you. Edit: You may want to swap the rail for a blaster for more damage up close. Not sure why I put the rail on there in the first place to be honest, but what the hell. Okay, I'll stop now.
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.07 00:37:00 - [7] Originally by: Andrea Griffin [Griffin, Rifter Killer] ... Rifter's sensor strength is only 8; the jamming strength of the single jammer on there is more than that, so you'll have him permanently jammed. The only trick left is to keep him in range long enough to wear him down. That will be easy; since he can't target you, he can't web you. Okay, I'll stop now. That is hilarious. I wonder if you can pull off a similar feat on a different ship. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.01.07 00:51:00 - [8] Rifter is best t1 frig. With good pilot it can destroy any other t1 frig /or disengage/. I think merlin will get kited at the edge of scram range with ab+web+scram rifter and mse+neut rifter will just shut it down and kill. But as yani said, most ppl will just lock you, click approach and hit f1-f3, so you have decent chance in merlin. Also most ppl fly ab rifters, so you can try fit lr guns, mwd and kite them.
Kazang Wrecking Shots	Posted - 2010.01.07 01:14:00 - [9] Any decent t1 frig(incursus/tristan/punisher/merlin/vigil) can beat a rifter if you fit purely to counter rifters. Same goes with the rifter though so it's up to skills, piloting and guessing how the other ship is fit. Kazang
Teuchronic Knight	Posted - 2010.01.07 01:40:00 - [10] Advice on fitting a ship against a Rifter? Or general advice on countership fits? What are you looking to do here, counter its speed with tracking, counter its tracking with range, etc?

Kessiaan Minmatar Final Agony	Posted - 2010.01.07 03:13:00 - [11] For pure tank and spank, no T1 frig will match a well-flown Rifter - the superior range of Barrage combined with their ability to control range means they'll outrange blasters and out-DPS everything else. But since that's what everyone flies, I fly a neut Tristan! Tristan, Neut HIGH: 2x Light Electron Blaster II (Null S) Small Energy Neutralizer II MID: J5b Phased Prototype Warp Scrambler X5 Prototype Engine Ennervator 1MN Afterburner II LOW: Damage Control II 400mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Micro Auxiliary Power Core I RIG: 3x Small Trimarks (purely optional, I run unrigged actually) DRONE: 1x Hobgoblin II MWD isn't really that important, they'll come to you and if they don't who cares it's a T1 frig. Inside scram range AB is much better for dictating range. Most T1 frigs are active tanked. Most T1 frigs other than Rifters need cap to run their guns. This fit hits both weak spots and has a very large buffer - at least for a frig - 5K EHP (7K trimarked)
Kirzath Genos Occidere	Posted - 2010.01.07 03:46:00 - [12] Edited by: Kirzath on 07/01/2010 03:46:12 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Andrea Griffin [Griffin, Rifter Killer] ... Rifter's sensor strength is only 8; the jamming strength of the single jammer on there is more than that, so you'll have him permanently jammed. The only trick left is to keep him in range long enough to wear him down. That will be easy; since he can't target you, he can't web you. Okay, I'll stop now. That is hilarious. I wonder if you can pull off a similar feat on a different ship. -Liang http://www.ushrakhan.com/alliance/edk/?a=kill_detail&kll_id=86207 Not included in the killmail is the fact that it was permajamming two Claws at once.
Cattegirn Rampant SR	Posted - 2010.01.07 08:48:00 - [13] Use "kiting" tactics and fit appropriately for that. The Rifter's edge is speed and tracking, so reduce those things. Strategy articles, PVP training
Dracoknight Strategic Syndicate Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.07 08:56:00 - [14] Used a "lol-fitted" kestrel once to make a Rifter run away Well, if you somehow manages to fit a MWD, disruptor and some launchers on a kestrel you might run around kiting the damn thing, but as we all know, aint got enough CPU/PG to fit even a full set of launchers on a kestrel even without the MWD... Or else you could go into the other Frigs like: Incursus, tristan, merlin or something aint sure what the amarr even got to offer in frigs anyway... ( I am Gallente / Caldari ) ____________________ I wish my Thorax could use missiles...
Cattegirn Rampant SR	Posted - 2010.01.07 09:00:00 - [15] Originally by: Andrea Griffin Edited by: Andrea Griffin on 07/01/2010 00:36:30 That is the Merlin fit that I have used to take down rifters. It works very well. NOT a guaranteed win of course, but the Merlin can hold its own. As far as T1 frigates go, do you think the Merlin is the best kiting ship? Strategy articles, PVP training
Agent Gunn Gallente Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.01.07 09:20:00 - [16] Originally by: Cattegirn Use "kiting" tactics and fit appropriately for that. The Rifter's edge is speed and tracking, so reduce those things. Crucifier.
Heccie Thump	Posted - 2010.01.07 09:27:00 - [17] There is a video out there of a Rifter pilot going up against all manner of targets and winning a lot. The one target he couldn't get ... the Laser Vigil. With it's speed and range advantage it just orbitted outside of web range and kept him pointed; he was helpless against it. It took a long while to take the rifter down, though.
Omara Otawan	Posted - 2010.01.07 09:29:00 - [18] Edited by: Omara Otawan on 07/01/2010 09:29:06 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Andrea Griffin [Griffin, Rifter Killer] That is hilarious. I wonder if you can pull off a similar feat on a different ship. -Liang Yes you can. I remember one of my buddies crying for help once against a Merlin, he was in a MSE rifter, and approaching 25% shields. The merlin itself was a hilarious ****fit and popped in 2 volleys, but the 2 multispec ECMs he had fitted kept the rifter jammed through the whole fight.
Printer Jam Printer Repair and Maintenance Specialists	Posted - 2010.01.07 10:08:00 - [19] Originally by: yani dumyat Blaster ships like the merlin will usually win against a rifter at close range, the problem is that rifters are faster and can pull range with barrage in a way that null just can't match. Fortunately there's a lot of **** poor rifter pilots who don't understand this. I've used a merlin with 200mm autocannons instead of blasters quite successfully against rifters. its not a guaranteed i-win, but makes for a good fight.
Sidus Isaacs Gallente	Posted - 2010.01.07 10:39:00 - [20] Originally by: Printer Jam Originally by: yani dumyat Blaster ships like the merlin will usually win against a rifter at close range, the problem is that rifters are faster and can pull range with barrage in a way that null just can't match. Fortunately there's a lot of **** poor rifter pilots who don't understand this. I've used a merlin with 200mm autocannons instead of blasters quite successfully against rifters. its not a guaranteed i-win, but makes for a good fight. Agreed. According to my calculatiosm, 200mm AC beat Light Electron blaster for efficency on the Merlins. as for Ion of Neutrones, that might be different, not done the shets for em yet. Tho, I use MWD on all my frigs, so noroom for bigger guns without using even more fitting mods. Also, AC got damage type selection and barrage ammo. Maks for a nice Merlin build imo. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- http://desusig.crumplecorn.com/sigs.html

Negativestatus Caldari State Protectorate	Posted - 2010.01.07 11:11:00 - [21] I didnt even know the Griffin could hold drones.. What's the rave with Warriors IIs?
Shade Millith International House of PWNCakes	Posted - 2010.01.07 11:31:00 - [22] Edited by: Shade Millith on 07/01/2010 11:32:46 Yes, a griffin can kill it, as well as most other frigs (except most AF's) I went on a t1 fitted killing spree where I lost about 40 griffins, but killed 14 intercepters and 2 interdicters. Good fun --------------------------------------------
Ruah Piskonit Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.07 14:08:00 - [23] Any Rifter can be killed by an equally skilled Punisher pilot. ----
Florio Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.01.07 14:35:00 - [24] for close range the classic bleeder punisher fit can beat a rifter. or just kite it with a standard missile mwd breacher or standard missile mwd kestrel. disclaimer: mileage will vary with pilot skill, ammo type, luck (for nos/neut cycles for instance), starting range and exact fitting.
Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.01.07 14:46:00 - [25] Originally by: Ruah Piskonit Any Rifter can be killed by an equally skilled Punisher pilot. Nah, rifter will just disengage if he wont be able to kill you. Neut can help, but rifter can fit /and will/ neut or nos too. Originally by: Printer Jam I've used a merlin with 200mm autocannons instead of blasters quite successfully against rifters. its not a guaranteed i-win, but makes for a good fight. Acs are good idea, 75mm rails could work too /as every rifter pilot will consider merlin blasterboat and will try to initiate fight outside blaster range/. You can even go without mse with dualwebs to get full control of engagement... Still kiting with mwd will be best imo. Originally by: Shade Millith Yes, a griffin can kill it, as well as most other frigs (except most AF's) After some efting trying to fit dramiel killing griff i found that biggest issue isnt buffer vs dramiels warriors, but loltastic rocket dps of griffin - most you can project without web to dramiel with rockets is 1/3 of their eft dps. Im not convinced it would be enough to break dramiels recharge lol.
Smabs	Posted - 2010.01.07 15:54:00 - [26] Like a lot of people have said the Merlin is a good matchup against a rifter - especially if it fits DLP's, autocannons or neutron blasters with null, which will allow it to hit for a good 60-70 even at the edge of scram range. In my opinion the Merlin is actually a slightly better ship because of its huge tank. Of course a really skilled rifter pilot can always overheat and run off due to the Merlin's lower speed, but I've found that to be a pretty rare event. Tristans and punishers can also go head to head with a rifter, although the punisher has the problem of only having two mid slots. Not so sure about an incursus. Stuff like nano kestrels can kite them too.
LordInvisible Gallente Nova Ardour	Posted - 2010.01.07 16:55:00 - [27] Edited by: LordInvisible on 07/01/2010 16:55:43 use something fast and kite.. If he has mwd, he cannot fit gank or armor tank.. -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- empty space - HALP
Ava Starfire Minmatar Nordanverdr Modr	Posted - 2010.01.07 18:03:00 - [28] Best thing vs rifters is of course, another rifter. But it depends on how the rifter is fit. The majority of rifters i come across are cookie cutter fit, packing web and AB, and armor tanking. Good fits will be carrying a neut. These are best used at kiting on the edge of barrage range, so dont let them, fortunately, not many rifter pilots really get the idea, and are content to sit next to you and slug it out. Get close and facemelt, or kite beyond 8-9k. firing exp damage if possible, kin otherwise (any punisher will probably be AC fit) If it has a web, its armor fit. Nemesis; well flown merlin, punisher (if they are dumb enough to sit next to you, or if they kite you with barrage, guess what; you can hit them) or other rifter. For shield fit rifters (my preferred fit) the exp and kin hole will not exist, they will also be faster, probably packing at least 1 gyro, and once again, good fits will pack a neut. If you have an MWD and the ability to do damage beyond 8-9k, do just that, as a shield fit rifter cannot carry a web. It IS possible to fit an MWD On a shield fit rifter, it just is not common. Much less of an explosive hole, use thermal if you can, as anyone flying this better damn sure be plugging the plz shoot me em hole with a rig. (if an AB rifter is pushing 1300msec or more, odds are it is shield fit) Nemesis; Incursus or ganky merlins. However, this fit is more damaging up close, and can select its damage type. Not common, but they do exist. Dual prop fits; they will have smaller guns (125s) and no room for a nos or neut, with any realistic fit anyways. Their tank will be a plate and perhaps a DCU. Once again no web, but much much more difficult to play the range game here; good thing is, their dps will be a bit lowish, and while they may escape, odds are you wont die to this if you do your part. I like this setup also, as not many frig pilots "do their part". Nemesis; pretty much anything, yet it IS fun to fly. Space is fun!
Amarrbone	Posted - 2010.01.07 19:23:00 - [29] I will gladly take a Vigil or a nano'd Crucifier against a Rifter without much fear. A single TD, long point, and more speed and a rifter = win and the vigil can do it very easy. The Rifter's ability to control range and use barrage ammo doesn't work so well against a bleeder Punisher as well. Range is a non-issue, really just comes down to who gets the luck. Puni does less, tanks more. Rifet does more, tanks less.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.01.07 19:40:00 - [30] Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 07/01/2010 19:45:42 The Rifter is overrated one-trick ponies. Once you have fought a few you know exactly how to kill them in anything but noobships and shuttles. It is very forgiving when starting out but loses in the long run once skills near maximum, then most other frigates of same tier will do better .. the Rifter is the training-wheel of the frigate class With that said; there are a few pilots around, mainly in FW where frigates are plentiful, that can make their ships do things that are just downright unnatural .. those you should fear, the remaining 99% you leave as wrecks as you pass. Originally by: Amarrbone Puni does less, tanks more. Rifet does more, tanks less. I hope you are not implying that the Punisher does less damage than a Rifter .. last I checked a Rifter barely breaks 100dps while a Punisher hits 120 with very little trouble. Bleeder Punisher loses to a gank/tank Punisher every time .. repairer may be able to run a lot longer but the amount it reps is 1/3 of what is received, Bleeder died a long time ago .. good riddance!



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