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hulkageddon consequences/game mechanic changes

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Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2010.01.08 07:44:00 - [31] Originally by: Dracoknight - Spank and Lana have a pillow fight We already had one. It was a draw. What happened to my AF boost?
Ran Khanon Amarr The Phantom Acolytes	Posted - 2010.01.08 07:47:00 - [32] It is not as if they didn't get enough prior warning either ... It only takes ONE guy in a corp / alliance being only slightly active on the forums to learn of this in advance and notify his buddies. Next to that: the fact that there happen to be so many victimized isk farmers / macro miners who couldn't care less what boils up from the community makes participating in Hulkageddon almost charity. Can't see how CCP would object to that. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Dracoknight Strategic Syndicate Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.08 07:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Lana Torrin Originally by: Dracoknight - Spank and Lana have a pillow fight We already had one. It was a draw. I heard otherwise, i guess you have to redo it and supply links of evidence and cookies before we can register it as a actual fact. However, i accept payment in ISK or "other services" to record it in your favor ____________________ I wish my Thorax could use missiles...
Tammarr	Posted - 2010.01.08 07:56:00 - [34] Originally by: Lucas Lucias Its been amazing, and I say that as a carebear player or should I say a High Sec miner on my main, the only thing I would change is to not assign any Concord reaction to using targetted ECM to remove other players lock. If CCP did that then we would have at least the ability to do something about it. We wanted to fight, but the mechanics do not allow it, because we have to allow the first strike on the Hulk and it will get toasted anyway. At least with the ECM we could break their locks and reduce the DPS with luck. You want to allow ecm to break locks without causing aggression, read what you wrote, loud. How are you going to mine a single asteroid when I'll be there in my grffin, jamming your hulk up without concord intervention? =) How are you going to complete a single mission, when Ill probe you out and jam you and ransom you to be free of ecm so you can continue with the mission?(best in combination with warp scrambled by frig npcs and counting on drones to not do their job properly ^^)
Lucas Lucias	Posted - 2010.01.08 08:58:00 - [35] Quote: You want to allow ecm to break locks without causing aggression, read what you wrote, loud. How are you going to mine a single asteroid when I'll be there in my grffin, jamming your hulk up without concord intervention? =) How are you going to complete a single mission, when Ill probe you out and jam you and ransom you to be free of ecm so you can continue with the mission?(best in combination with warp scrambled by frig npcs and counting on drones to not do their job properly ^^) If someone places a target lock on me or a member of my corp we have the right to target them and then use ECM to block that lock, there has to be a lock applied first for that to be free of Concord otherwise the only option is place aggression on target lock then which is not a good idea in my view. I would have thought that this could be programmed in.
Zaqar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2010.01.08 09:09:00 - [36] Originally by: clamslayer So what does everyone think ccp will do to aid the macro miner in being safer? _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Originally by: Tiberizzle Originally by: Aloe Cloveris nyoro~n <:3c lol wtf is this emoticon it looks like you are sodomizing a yard gnome
Ghost Rider86 Caldari Phoenix Interstellar Corp	Posted - 2010.01.08 09:30:00 - [37] Originally by: Dacryphile Ship destruction drives eve's economy, especially for miners. CCP is probably very happy with Hulkageddon II. +1 It's a circle. Miners mine and build, traders buy and sell, Pvp'ers buy and blow-up everything. _______________________________________________
Tierie Caldari Duty. Duty. Private Security	Posted - 2010.01.08 09:42:00 - [38] somehwat confused as to why it's achieved so much notoriety this year, but none last year.
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.01.08 09:46:00 - [39] Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly I hope CCP leaves their hands out of it. And the carebears should watch what they wish for. Many want insurance payout for concord kills to cease. What happens when Joe Cool mission runner targets a ninja or a miner targets back a non aggro irritant in his mining space and they accidently an offensive module? Joe Cool mish runner ain't gonna be so happy losing his pimped out mish boat with no payout at all. Don't lie carebears. You're all to friggin' cheap to not insure a ship. No matter how expensive over the payout it may be. Cheap skate bastards. How about a message from CCP to carebears. Learn something about pvp to protect yourself and HTFU. How long have you been playing this game? Seriously, that post is dumb. If carebears got what they wished for, they would have full insurance for there boats. How much do you think Joe Cool mission runner actually gets back of the billion he spent pimping out the CNR he's using. And how much do you think the hulk miner gets back when he does whatever it was you were going on about above. The problem here is that people who are used to getting full payment for their gankboats, have it stuck in their head that it works like that for everybody. At least you seem too, or you wouldn't have posted such drivel. It certainly isn't going to affect the carebears much to change insurance so that concord kills don't pay out. It will only affect the gankers significantly. Although, I would suggest simply getting rid of insurance altogether. Supposed to be a cold, harsh universe. For everyone. Right now it's kind of harsh for mission runners and miners but that's it. The ganker tears would flow like a river if CCP ever got around to balancing the insurance mechanic. Or getting rid of it altogether. Mr Epeen
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.01.08 10:19:00 - [40] Originally by: Tierie somehwat confused as to why it's achieved so much notoriety this year, but none last year. Last year it was a surprise attack, and I could only reach so many people through covert channels. This year more people know who I am, and I forum *****d it pretty hard as you may have noticed. The prizes and participation just began to pour in by themselves once it hit a critical mass. The absurdity of some of the smacktalk I got thrown at me no doubt helped too. I do have to say, it does take a lot of energy to keep this sort of thing going, you should not envy me right now.
Dibsi Dei Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.08 11:28:00 - [41] hopefully a removal of insurance altogether
Dors Venabily	Posted - 2010.01.08 11:31:00 - [42] Originally by: Dibsi Dei hopefully a removal of insurance altogether /this
Krans Hopeson Hypercube Ventures	Posted - 2010.01.08 11:50:00 - [43] Originally by: Dibsi Dei hopefully a removal of insurance altogether People keep suggesting this, and it's a totally idiotic suggestion. Although removing insurance would remove suicide ganking, it would also make people very risk-averse, and would severely increase the barrier to entry for noobs to PvP. Who would risk investing a great proportion of their ISK in even a battlecruiser if they knew that one mistake in a mission would lose that investment entirely? I certainly wouldn't have, when I was a new player. The result would be that people would fly much less expensive ships and would actively avoid PvP combat and risk-taking -- the very activities that make this game so much fun. This would reduce the number and value of ships being popped, thus reducing the amount of minerals removed from the game, while having very little effect on the amount of ISK flooding into the game from missioning and ratting (these vastly outweigh insurance as sources of ISK), and the prices of minerals would crash hard. Miners and T1 manufacturers would leave the game, as it wouldn't be at all practical to actually make money by those activities. Since mining and T1 manufacturing are the best ways to start out as an industrialist, a disproportionately large proportion of those quitting would be newbies. Deprived of targets (who would want to pay the full cost of a nullsec war?), PvP pilots would start leaving the game as well. If, instead, insurance was removed only when you get CONCORDoken, pretty much all of the fun would still be in the game. It would still be feasible to take a gang of destroyers and blow up a Hulk in hi-sec, but you'd have to carefully choose the targets to make sure that the dropped modules were likely to be valuable enough to pay for replacing the destroyers and fittings. As the Hulkageddon II killboard testifies, there are a lot of people still willing to fit highly valuable modules on what is a pretty much paper-thin ship. The balance between risk/effort/lulz would be preserved, with very little macro-scale effect on the market. TL;DR removing insurance entirely would kill EVE. Instead, remove insurance when getting CONCORDed. -- "The only stupid question is the one you don't ask."
Anosh	Posted - 2010.01.08 12:02:00 - [44] Originally by: Dors Venabily Originally by: Dibsi Dei hopefully a removal of insurance altogether /this I can remember the times when it was "this", and the forums were full of whining about how nobody took risks, and there was never anybody to kill. The insurance system was intended to entice more PvP contact,and help prevent turning noobs away after their first big ship loss, and it worked iirc. Insurance should be changed to zero payout to Concord loss. That would seem simplest and fairest to all. Insurance will remain an irrelevance to the pimpfitter, but still an encouragement for "normal" PvP (at least on tech 1 ships), and is good for people still learning the game to take risks without losing everything. If the pimpfit guy makes a targetting error, imho thats his bad, as much as it should cost suicide gankers more to indulge, but not too much :) - they are providing good punishment for the unwary and poorly fitted. So, on balance this event will have been a big benefit to the game provided the right changes are made as a result. Eliminating insurance would be a daft thing to do. Zero payout for Concord loss is the only change needed.
Zhu Wei Caldari Black Sun Armada	Posted - 2010.01.08 12:21:00 - [45] Originally by: Medidranda Livoga I don¦t see any reason for gankers to stop ganking exhumers. Expensive, helpless and ganking ships are super cheap. Just waiting until some alliance/s start rotating people to gank mission runners and miners, while replacing ships for free as well. I think you could pretty much freeze all major mission hubs like that if enough people started doing this... I¦m hoping they do. Oh really? And then what will you do when there is no one to gank? Mission run or mine maybe?
Juliette DuBois	Posted - 2010.01.08 12:26:00 - [46] Crawl back to some low-sec hole where they belong I suppose... Or idle and look for skill counter ticking.
Tzarus	Posted - 2010.01.08 12:30:00 - [47] But, removal of the insurance if you get concordokken won't stop gankers because, as they stated over and over, they do it just for the "lolz & tearz". Sure they won't care to assume the losses of their ships for the fun, after all they are pvpers, don't they? :P Ok, this was a troll, I was just bored..
Calydonian Boar	Posted - 2010.01.08 12:41:00 - [48] hulkageddon has nothing to do with eve mechanics, it's basic ganking and provides activity to the market, as victims grab new ships from market and continue mining until they are ganked again and gankers buy more dessies / cruisers / BCs and BSs in order to gank more. After that gankers go 0.0 in order to do security ratting, sometimes grab loot from the wreck or salvage them, then sell them back on the market, or may be they lose their ratting ships to 0.0 camps and buy more ships... Do you see my flow there? Its all up-and-running and creating more activity in market. People are buying more ships which means they want to continue playing the game, which means CCP is happy as well. If there is one thing in eve that is constant; its the fact that people cry but they always keep on playing because its fun. We have seen NOS, torps, nano ships get nerfed, I personally said I will quit after nano, yet I m still playing :) and that my friend, is what CCP cares about :)
Jacqueline Harrien Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2010.01.08 12:42:00 - [49] Originally by: Tzarus But, removal of the insurance if you get concordokken won't stop gankers because, as they stated over and over, they do it just for the "lolz & tearz". Correct. The lulz from popping a Hulk are easily worth 1m ISK per gank ship to me. I'm not complaining about insurance, though!
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:16:00 - [50] I've said it before and I'll say it again to all those of you advocating the removal of insurance for Concord related deaths. It won't stop suicide ganking. Most ganks are carried out by cheap destroyer gangs. Net value (before insurance) for the whole gang <10mil isk. I'd pay that to gank a Hulk in a heartbeat. WRT ganking for profit, it will merely raise the threshold at which a gank becomes profitable. CCP had this option a couple of patches ago. It was either nerf insurance payouts or increase Concord response time. They chose the latter for good reason. I'm sure there are dozens of Concord deaths every day unrelated to suicide ganking, especially on noobs who are unaware of the mechanics. Suicide ganking ISN'T that big of a problem. It's certainly not as widespread as the hysterical carebears on these boards would have you believe. There are plenty of means in game to protect yourself from being suicide ganked. If you are unwilling to make use of these methods then you deserve everything you get.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:28:00 - [51] Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 13:34:54 Well, I mean, CCP nerfed suicide ganking when it became apparent that people were exploiting it for profits to a degree that was not consistent with what they felt was appropriate. The difference here is that the gankers are doing it for pleasure, not profit. However, for the same reason can baiting and popping newbies in 1.0 starter systems is considered an exploit, I wouldn't put it past them to implement more hurdles to suicide ganking if and when it becomes prolific enough to impede on the general day to day content of the game as it concerns mining itself. Obviously there is a wealth of industry related content and game mechanic that has been developed by the CCP staff over years and years, so if it comes down to whether or not they are willing to let the player community strip that bare and render it rather trivial, is the real question. Right now, 1k kills in a few days does not sound like much, but after six months of this? Well, you get the picture. Best case scenario is they further limit the activities of outlaws in Empire space so that those who just want a cheap thrill or to participate in a yearly or even biannual contest CAN do so a number of times before they aren't allowed to anymore without grinding sec. The reason I say this is because since the introduction of the Orca, outlaws have been using it as a quick and dirty way to get the drop on anything and everyone anywhere in space. Now while it is not a problem per say, it IS a problem concerning game mechanic. Obviously an industrial ship with a maintenance bay was not designed by CCP to be used as transport for PvP ships so a gang of outlaws that are supposed to be KOS to faction Navy forces, can circumvent the mechanic. I think the only reason CCP hasn't addressed this yet is because there's no sweet solution to it other than a nerf to outlaws, but with the Orca workaround alone, it is not enough for them to make a move, now with increased interest in griefing miners, we'll see. Worst case scenario is they hit everything within a mile with the nerf hammer and not only do the miners and the industry content of the game as it relates to mining suffer but so do the people who started it. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:37:00 - [52] Originally by: Mendolus The difference here is that the gankers are doing it for pleasure, not profit. People doing something for fun in a game? Quick! To the nerfmobile! There are actually some serious economic factors and wealth people driving this event, without whom it wouldn't have happened. Originally by: Mendolus Right now, 1k kills in a few days does not sound like much, but after six months of this? Well, you get the picture. Your an moran. You do realise that not only is this event due to last for only a week but also maintaining this level of boat violencing is both unsustainable and gets quite boring after a while. However if you want to see six months of this I'm sure it could be arranged.
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:42:00 - [53] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer You do realise that not only is this event due to last for only a week but also maintaining this level of boat violencing is both unsustainable and gets quite boring after a while. However if you want to see six months of this I'm sure it could be arranged. I know I cant sustain this level of evemail spam and convo requests for more than a week. I haven't slept more than 4 hours in DAYS already >_<
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:43:00 - [54] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Originally by: Mendolus The difference here is that the gankers are doing it for pleasure, not profit. People doing something for fun in a game? Quick! To the nerfmobile! There are actually some serious economic factors and wealth people driving this event, without whom it wouldn't have happened. Originally by: Mendolus Right now, 1k kills in a few days does not sound like much, but after six months of this? Well, you get the picture. Your an moran. You do realise that not only is this event due to last for only a week but also maintaining this level of boat violencing is both unsustainable and gets quite boring after a while. However if you want to see six months of this I'm sure it could be arranged. What's a moran? {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:45:00 - [55] Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Originally by: Mendolus The difference here is that the gankers are doing it for pleasure, not profit. People doing something for fun in a game? Quick! To the nerfmobile! There are actually some serious economic factors and wealth people driving this event, without whom it wouldn't have happened. Originally by: Mendolus Right now, 1k kills in a few days does not sound like much, but after six months of this? Well, you get the picture. Your an moran. You do realise that not only is this event due to last for only a week but also maintaining this level of boat violencing is both unsustainable and gets quite boring after a while. However if you want to see six months of this I'm sure it could be arranged. What's a moran? Here, see this
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:50:00 - [56] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Originally by: Mendolus The difference here is that the gankers are doing it for pleasure, not profit. People doing something for fun in a game? Quick! To the nerfmobile! There are actually some serious economic factors and wealth people driving this event, without whom it wouldn't have happened. Originally by: Mendolus Right now, 1k kills in a few days does not sound like much, but after six months of this? Well, you get the picture. Your an moran. You do realise that not only is this event due to last for only a week but also maintaining this level of boat violencing is both unsustainable and gets quite boring after a while. However if you want to see six months of this I'm sure it could be arranged. What's a moran? Here, see this You seem to be under the impression that CCP likes it when people use the game content contrary to the years and months they have spent developing it. All I am stating is that if outlaws continue using the Orca for more and more suicide gangs, eventually CCP will have enough reason to ** everyone off by nerfing it or the outlaws themselves. When has this NOT happened in the past, pray tell? Let's see, can baiting noobs, renaming cans and scrambling them, lofty scams, crazy amounts of suicide ganks with little meaningful security penalties, falcons gone wild, nano fits as far as the eye can see, free form contracts, a plethora of warp to 0m bookmarks, titan kaboom fleet go poof, POS spamming... man I could go on forever If CCP takes a look at stupid useless free form contracts that no one uses except scammers and finally after years of misuse goes, "Let's fix that." what do you think will happen to outlaws using Orca as a slingshot to circumvent the faction navy mechanic? Either they get the nerf hammer, the Orca gets the nerf hammer, or both. What precedent has CCP NOT** set that says they will forever allow this mechanic to be used in a way that was unintentional? Who's the moran? {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Forum Reprentative	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:54:00 - [57] There's a little wolf deep inside all carebears' heart, even the most hardcore ones. I bet there's no single one that is not happy when "other carebears die". Is common sense, "better them than me", and less competence is always welcome. You don't have to outrun the Lion, just the slowest gazelle. Frankly, I'll be quite surprised if CCP take part.
Swalesey Prosperity Through Violence	Posted - 2010.01.08 14:04:00 - [58] As long as you can buy gtc to replace your broken ships, CCP will fully endorsa anything that blows them up more. don't be naive peoples. We all know there are people out there who will buy 10/20 gtc at a time to be uber at eve, fit out all there faction hulks, faction battleships with officer fits, and go about trying to dish out justice. then lose the lot and buy more gtc. As long as this happens ccp will not give a rats ass how your stuff gets blown up. 1000 hulks dead out of probably 30,000 or so (my uncalculated guesstimate number police, it's probably much more)mining accounts is nothing.
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc	Posted - 2010.01.08 14:08:00 - [59] Quote: We already had one. It was a draw. I am a little late with this but.... Pics or it never happened! ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 14:16:00 - [60] Originally by: Mendolus You seem to be under the impression that CCP likes it when people use the game content contrary to the years and months they have spent developing it. All I am stating is that if outlaws continue using the Orca for more and more suicide gangs, eventually CCP will have enough reason to ** everyone off by nerfing it or the outlaws themselves. When has this NOT happened in the past, pray tell? Let's see, can baiting noobs, renaming cans and scrambling them, lofty scams, crazy amounts of suicide ganks with little meaningful security penalties, falcons gone wild, nano fits as far as the eye can see, free form contracts, a plethora of warp to 0m bookmarks, titan kaboom fleet go poof, POS spamming... man I could go on forever If CCP takes a look at stupid useless free form contracts that no one uses except scammers and finally after years of misuse goes, "Let's fix that." what do you think will happen to outlaws using Orca as a slingshot to circumvent the faction navy mechanic? Either they get the nerf hammer, the Orca gets the nerf hammer, or both. What precedent has CCP NOT** set that says they will forever allow this mechanic to be used in a way that was unintentional? Who's the moran? Where did I mention the Orca in my quotes? If you are concerned about the use of Orcas... don't be. It's a myth perpetrated by one or two idiot carebears who know nothing about game mechanics (ie you). Only a small fraction of the suicide gankers I know operate in conjunction with an Orca and even then for deep strikes 5-10 jumps into hisec. Given it's pathetic SMA size and the constraints of the 15 minute GCC and the ease at which -10's can travel through hisec you are really putting yourself at a disadvantage by using one. And how is it's use unintentional? Also as stated before this is a one off event, this is only lasting a week and is proportionally only affecting a tiny number of Empire miners. It's only the hysterical posting of people like yourself that is drawing attention to the 'issue'. Your an moran.

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