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clamslayer	Posted - 2010.01.08 00:26:00 - [1] So we are all stoked about how successful hulkageddon has been this year, its been just over 24 hours and there are more kills on the first day than i expected. I thought if it was a success there would be 500 exhumer kills at the end of the event. I expect the number to pass 1000 exhumer kills. So what does everyone think ccp will do to aid the high sec miner in being safer? We all know that the random killing of hulks will continue after the event and will add to the pile of petitions that are going to be made during this week. -I expect insurance to be changed, possibly a zero isk payout to pilots killed by concord, or a partial payout -Security status hits may be sharpened -maneuverability of ships with -5 sec status pilots may get nerfed aswell who knows.. im just curious to know what my fellow "griefers" expect 8==(!)
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.01.08 00:28:00 - [2] Ship destruction drives eve's economy, especially for miners. CCP is probably very happy with Hulkageddon II. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
vixxxy	Posted - 2010.01.08 00:31:00 - [3] its good for the economy, but eve is a business, and like any other business its all about the money
clamslayer	Posted - 2010.01.08 00:37:00 - [4] ^^^agreed
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2010.01.08 00:40:00 - [5] Originally by: clamslayer So what does everyone think ccp will do to aid the high sec miner in being safer? Nothing? I mean the amount of damage being done this week will pretty much stop as soon as the event is over.. Within a month it'll be back to its normal level and people will have forgotten.. Till next year anyway.. What happened to my AF boost?
Ospie Core Impulse	Posted - 2010.01.08 00:42:00 - [6] Eh, miners not paying attention deserve to die anyway. Many many miners my corp's killed are either afk or definitely macro miners (i.e. even as we destroy every hulk in a belt with dessie gangs, the rest continue to mine away & continue with their macro!)
Medidranda Livoga	Posted - 2010.01.08 00:52:00 - [7] I don¦t see any reason for gankers to stop ganking exhumers. Expensive, helpless and ganking ships are super cheap. Just waiting until some alliance/s start rotating people to gank mission runners and miners, while replacing ships for free as well. I think you could pretty much freeze all major mission hubs like that if enough people started doing this... I¦m hoping they do.
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2010.01.08 00:54:00 - [8] I'm betting nothing changes. Most of the 'outcry' about it is manufactured by the participants to drum up attention. There's a slight chance it could tip the scales of the insurance argument towards getting payouts for losses to CONCORD nerfed or removed. Beyond that, like has been said, a lot of the kills are macro-miners. It's like a forest fire. Clears out old growth for new growth to come in and flourish. If sec hits and faction navy security are sharpened, I'll be surprised, but not shocked. And the epic lulz will ensue at the many whine and cheez threads to follow. Either way, doesn't affect me. I mine mission rats, not fuggen rocks.
clamslayer	Posted - 2010.01.08 00:54:00 - [9] ^^^and if they did ccp would be forced to do something... ccp's main goal is to generate money through active accounts, so they are going to keep the majority of the player base happy, and the majority is not the gankers
Harrigan VonStudly Imperium Signal Corps Underworld Excavators	Posted - 2010.01.08 01:10:00 - [10] I hope CCP leaves their hands out of it. And the carebears should watch what they wish for. Many want insurance payout for concord kills to cease. What happens when Joe Cool mission runner targets a ninja or a miner targets back a non aggro irritant in his mining space and they accidently an offensive module? Joe Cool mish runner ain't gonna be so happy losing his pimped out mish boat with no payout at all. Don't lie carebears. You're all to friggin' cheap to not insure a ship. No matter how expensive over the payout it may be. Cheap skate bastards. How about a message from CCP to carebears. Learn something about pvp to protect yourself and HTFU.
crashmatusow	Posted - 2010.01.08 01:27:00 - [11] Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly I hope CCP leaves their hands out of it. And the carebears should watch what they wish for. Many want insurance payout for concord kills to cease. What happens when Joe Cool mission runner targets a ninja or a miner targets back a non aggro irritant in his mining space and they accidently an offensive module? Joe Cool mish runner ain't gonna be so happy losing his pimped out mish boat with no payout at all. Don't lie carebears. You're all to friggin' cheap to not insure a ship. No matter how expensive over the payout it may be. Cheap skate bastards. How about a message from CCP to carebears. Learn something about pvp to protect yourself and HTFU. cause they're totally isn't a warning when you try to attack someone without aggro.....
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2010.01.08 01:33:00 - [12] Originally by: crashmatusow Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly I hope CCP leaves their hands out of it. And the carebears should watch what they wish for. Many want insurance payout for concord kills to cease. What happens when Joe Cool mission runner targets a ninja or a miner targets back a non aggro irritant in his mining space and they accidently an offensive module? Joe Cool mish runner ain't gonna be so happy losing his pimped out mish boat with no payout at all. Don't lie carebears. You're all to friggin' cheap to not insure a ship. No matter how expensive over the payout it may be. Cheap skate bastards. How about a message from CCP to carebears. Learn something about pvp to protect yourself and HTFU. cause they're totally isn't a warning when you try to attack someone without aggro..... And yet mission runners do it.. Find a ninja and ask them how often.. Back in the day I used to managed to get about one concorded a week.. Damn good loot.. What happened to my AF boost?
Mary Bennet Caldari Alloyed Tritanium Bar And Grill	Posted - 2010.01.08 01:51:00 - [13] One big mechanic change I'm expecting to see is that in the future, there will only be allowed to excist a single forum thread on the subject. I mean funk's sake, we've got just about a full front page of nothing but Hulkageddon in C&P now.
clamslayer	Posted - 2010.01.08 01:52:00 - [14] ^^^its kinda of a big deal jackass
Ky'rena	Posted - 2010.01.08 01:54:00 - [15] Have to say all the reading of the Hulkageddon Threads has had me roflmao so much, love it. Being that said, i am a carebear per say as i mine and mission primarily in the game. I have not insured a ship in a long time. Such a waste of ISK vs what one gets out of it. So let them nerf it. I would just laugh that much harder when the missioner loses a ship as stated earlier in this thread. And now, where do i find a gank squad running in Domain to join?
Lady Spank Amarr Sekret Kool Klubb	Posted - 2010.01.08 01:59:00 - [16] Originally by: Mary Bennet One big mechanic change I'm expecting to see is that in the future, there will only be allowed to excist a single forum thread on the subject. I mean funk's sake, we've got just about a full front page of nothing but Hulkageddon in C&P now. It's better than bored trolls feeding each other. ~
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2010.01.08 01:59:00 - [17] Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly Learn something about pvp to protect yourself and HTFU. All these greifers should learn something about mining TBH.. Cant mine, so you kill.. What happened to my AF boost?
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.01.08 02:05:00 - [18] Originally by: clamslayer ^^^its kinda of a big deal jackass Of that were true, it wouldn't need all the shameless self promotion. --Vel Brand new year, same old attitude.
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.01.08 02:10:00 - [19] Edited by: Helicity Boson on 08/01/2010 02:15:34 Originally by: De'Veldrin Originally by: clamslayer ^^^its kinda of a big deal jackass Of that were true, it wouldn't need all the shameless self promotion. perhaps, my promotion blitz seems to have paid off quite well, a lot of people are out having fun. instead of... you know, being on the forum being bitter because you didn't think of it first. edit: look ma, im famous! http://www.massively.com/2010/01/07/hulkageddon-ii-event-begins-in-eve-today-miners-despair/
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.01.08 02:31:00 - [20] Originally by: Helicity Boson Edited by: Helicity Boson on 08/01/2010 02:15:34 Originally by: De'Veldrin Originally by: clamslayer ^^^its kinda of a big deal jackass Of that were true, it wouldn't need all the shameless self promotion. perhaps, my promotion blitz seems to have paid off quite well, a lot of people are out having fun. instead of... you know, being on the forum being bitter because you didn't think of it first. edit: look ma, im famous! http://www.massively.com/2010/01/07/hulkageddon-ii-event-begins-in-eve-today-miners-despair/ I'm not bitter. Didn't you see my smiley? I made my Hulkageddon money already. Cleaned up a smallish mess in an ice field earlier. Might go back looking for more later. --Vel Brand new year, same old attitude.
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 02:43:00 - [21] Edited by: Larkonis TrassIer on 08/01/2010 02:43:20 This is a pretty unsustainable level of gankage. A one off event funded by some wealthy PVPers and industrialists. There was a much more protracted and sustained effort made by the Goons last year (or was it the year before?). A short sharp shock to reinvigorate T2 production post dominion. Don't expect any changes.
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.01.08 04:07:00 - [22] Even if they were to remove insurance payment from concordokkened ships, ganking a T2 fit Hulk with a half dozen destroyers will still be profitable. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Slimy Worm Vivicide Vivisection.	Posted - 2010.01.08 04:29:00 - [23] I hope they just do away with insurance. It doesn't make sense for the SCC to pay it back when you lose it through getting CONCORDed. But I doubt they'll nerf maneuverability of people with low sec status while in highsec. They've never lowered a player's stats based on his or her security status before. Plus the lowsec pirates would be in an uproar because it would make it artificially difficult for them to fly small, fast ships to other pockets of lowsec.
Selrid Miamarr Amarr	Posted - 2010.01.08 04:54:00 - [24] I think everyone is overrating the impact of this event. I have seen a lot of Hulks and Mackinaws still mining happily, and I have yet to even see a suicide gank, just one aftermath with concord in area. This is going through belt by belt in a system looking for rats and salvage. It's something that many people are talking about, but despite the killmail total, seems to have little overall impact. I wouldn't worry about nerfs unless the attacks increase dramatically.
Harrigan VonStudly Imperium Signal Corps Underworld Excavators	Posted - 2010.01.08 05:28:00 - [25] Originally by: Lana Torrin Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly Learn something about pvp to protect yourself and HTFU. All these greifers should learn something about mining TBH.. Cant mine, so you kill.. Mine? OMFG NO way! As for killing in a pvp game. Well, I guess that's our bad.
Ospie Core Impulse	Posted - 2010.01.08 05:39:00 - [26] Originally by: clamslayer ^^^and if they did ccp would be forced to do something... ccp's main goal is to generate money through active accounts, so they are going to keep the majority of the player base happy, and the majority is not the gankers The majority also aren't the ganked. Idiot. Most none-miners find this whole event quite amusing, even if they aren't participating. As for sec hits, doesn't affect many of us since we're already outlaw. Quote: Have to say all the reading of the Hulkageddon Threads has had me roflmao so much, love it. Being that said, i am a carebear per say as i mine and mission primarily in the game. I have not insured a ship in a long time. Such a waste of ISK vs what one gets out of it. So let them nerf it. I would just laugh that much harder when the missioner loses a ship as stated earlier in this thread. And now, where do i find a gank squad running in Domain to join? Contact someone in my corp, we're largely operating in tash-murkon atm, aiming to hit Domain over next couple of days :)
Archangel17	Posted - 2010.01.08 06:47:00 - [27] Originally by: Lana Torrin Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly Learn something about pvp to protect yourself and HTFU. All these greifers should learn something about mining TBH.. Cant mine, so you kill.. I hate to break it to you, but it requires no skill at all to mine. I used to mine and mission run and I can tell you I would have quit long ago had I not been introduced to pvp. Miners are usually just too afraid to pvp so will never become good at it.
Lucas Lucias	Posted - 2010.01.08 07:14:00 - [28] Its been amazing, and I say that as a carebear player or should I say a High Sec miner on my main, the only thing I would change is to not assign any Concord reaction to using targetted ECM to remove other players lock. If CCP did that then we would have at least the ability to do something about it. We wanted to fight, but the mechanics do not allow it, because we have to allow the first strike on the Hulk and it will get toasted anyway. At least with the ECM we could break their locks and reduce the DPS with luck.
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2010.01.08 07:33:00 - [29] Originally by: Lucas Lucias Its been amazing, and I say that as a carebear player or should I say a High Sec miner on my main, the only thing I would change is to not assign any Concord reaction to using targetted ECM to remove other players lock. If CCP did that then we would have at least the ability to do something about it. We wanted to fight, but the mechanics do not allow it, because we have to allow the first strike on the Hulk and it will get toasted anyway. At least with the ECM we could break their locks and reduce the DPS with luck. Because allowing ECM doesn't have a single down side or greifing potential.. What happened to my AF boost?
Dracoknight Strategic Syndicate Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.08 07:41:00 - [30] Edited by: Dracoknight on 08/01/2010 07:41:44 Most likely i think CCP aint going to do ** about it, since this Event is doing some things like: - Killing off Macro miners, thus letting human players to join in the market - The economy around ships like Destroyers, Exhumers, Battleships and smartbombs currently flourish taking advantage of the huge losses and destruction - CCP loves destruction and flourishing economy and will not do anything - Mining will now be profitable for any survivors of the event and thus Tritanium will be once again sellable, also Chribba need to add "Hulkageddon" as a event in his Carebear simulator... yes i know you read this thread you mega-carebear! - IEEE will be happy to see how much fail fits there are and might have some new investigations during or after the event. - Helicity and shigsy get the Attention they want - Lotsa pirates and "griefers" get loads of godly prizes and ** - Entity is finally fogotten and is now not a scammer - Spank and Lana have a pillow fight - Lotsa people is going to supply us with ship fuel ( tears ), enough to keep it going until next year - Tear extraction services is going to live happily ever after - CCP Zyrg falls asleep - World Peace ____________________ I wish my Thorax could use missiles...
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2010.01.08 07:44:00 - [31] Originally by: Dracoknight - Spank and Lana have a pillow fight We already had one. It was a draw. What happened to my AF boost?
Ran Khanon Amarr The Phantom Acolytes	Posted - 2010.01.08 07:47:00 - [32] It is not as if they didn't get enough prior warning either ... It only takes ONE guy in a corp / alliance being only slightly active on the forums to learn of this in advance and notify his buddies. Next to that: the fact that there happen to be so many victimized isk farmers / macro miners who couldn't care less what boils up from the community makes participating in Hulkageddon almost charity. Can't see how CCP would object to that. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Dracoknight Strategic Syndicate Chain of Chaos	Posted - 2010.01.08 07:52:00 - [33] Originally by: Lana Torrin Originally by: Dracoknight - Spank and Lana have a pillow fight We already had one. It was a draw. I heard otherwise, i guess you have to redo it and supply links of evidence and cookies before we can register it as a actual fact. However, i accept payment in ISK or "other services" to record it in your favor ____________________ I wish my Thorax could use missiles...
Tammarr	Posted - 2010.01.08 07:56:00 - [34] Originally by: Lucas Lucias Its been amazing, and I say that as a carebear player or should I say a High Sec miner on my main, the only thing I would change is to not assign any Concord reaction to using targetted ECM to remove other players lock. If CCP did that then we would have at least the ability to do something about it. We wanted to fight, but the mechanics do not allow it, because we have to allow the first strike on the Hulk and it will get toasted anyway. At least with the ECM we could break their locks and reduce the DPS with luck. You want to allow ecm to break locks without causing aggression, read what you wrote, loud. How are you going to mine a single asteroid when I'll be there in my grffin, jamming your hulk up without concord intervention? =) How are you going to complete a single mission, when Ill probe you out and jam you and ransom you to be free of ecm so you can continue with the mission?(best in combination with warp scrambled by frig npcs and counting on drones to not do their job properly ^^)
Lucas Lucias	Posted - 2010.01.08 08:58:00 - [35] Quote: You want to allow ecm to break locks without causing aggression, read what you wrote, loud. How are you going to mine a single asteroid when I'll be there in my grffin, jamming your hulk up without concord intervention? =) How are you going to complete a single mission, when Ill probe you out and jam you and ransom you to be free of ecm so you can continue with the mission?(best in combination with warp scrambled by frig npcs and counting on drones to not do their job properly ^^) If someone places a target lock on me or a member of my corp we have the right to target them and then use ECM to block that lock, there has to be a lock applied first for that to be free of Concord otherwise the only option is place aggression on target lock then which is not a good idea in my view. I would have thought that this could be programmed in.
Zaqar Pator Tech School	Posted - 2010.01.08 09:09:00 - [36] Originally by: clamslayer So what does everyone think ccp will do to aid the macro miner in being safer? _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ _ Originally by: Tiberizzle Originally by: Aloe Cloveris nyoro~n <:3c lol wtf is this emoticon it looks like you are sodomizing a yard gnome
Ghost Rider86 Caldari Phoenix Interstellar Corp	Posted - 2010.01.08 09:30:00 - [37] Originally by: Dacryphile Ship destruction drives eve's economy, especially for miners. CCP is probably very happy with Hulkageddon II. +1 It's a circle. Miners mine and build, traders buy and sell, Pvp'ers buy and blow-up everything. _______________________________________________
Tierie Caldari Duty. Duty. Private Security	Posted - 2010.01.08 09:42:00 - [38] somehwat confused as to why it's achieved so much notoriety this year, but none last year.
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.01.08 09:46:00 - [39] Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly I hope CCP leaves their hands out of it. And the carebears should watch what they wish for. Many want insurance payout for concord kills to cease. What happens when Joe Cool mission runner targets a ninja or a miner targets back a non aggro irritant in his mining space and they accidently an offensive module? Joe Cool mish runner ain't gonna be so happy losing his pimped out mish boat with no payout at all. Don't lie carebears. You're all to friggin' cheap to not insure a ship. No matter how expensive over the payout it may be. Cheap skate bastards. How about a message from CCP to carebears. Learn something about pvp to protect yourself and HTFU. How long have you been playing this game? Seriously, that post is dumb. If carebears got what they wished for, they would have full insurance for there boats. How much do you think Joe Cool mission runner actually gets back of the billion he spent pimping out the CNR he's using. And how much do you think the hulk miner gets back when he does whatever it was you were going on about above. The problem here is that people who are used to getting full payment for their gankboats, have it stuck in their head that it works like that for everybody. At least you seem too, or you wouldn't have posted such drivel. It certainly isn't going to affect the carebears much to change insurance so that concord kills don't pay out. It will only affect the gankers significantly. Although, I would suggest simply getting rid of insurance altogether. Supposed to be a cold, harsh universe. For everyone. Right now it's kind of harsh for mission runners and miners but that's it. The ganker tears would flow like a river if CCP ever got around to balancing the insurance mechanic. Or getting rid of it altogether. Mr Epeen
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.01.08 10:19:00 - [40] Originally by: Tierie somehwat confused as to why it's achieved so much notoriety this year, but none last year. Last year it was a surprise attack, and I could only reach so many people through covert channels. This year more people know who I am, and I forum *****d it pretty hard as you may have noticed. The prizes and participation just began to pour in by themselves once it hit a critical mass. The absurdity of some of the smacktalk I got thrown at me no doubt helped too. I do have to say, it does take a lot of energy to keep this sort of thing going, you should not envy me right now.
Dibsi Dei Sebiestor tribe	Posted - 2010.01.08 11:28:00 - [41] hopefully a removal of insurance altogether
Dors Venabily	Posted - 2010.01.08 11:31:00 - [42] Originally by: Dibsi Dei hopefully a removal of insurance altogether /this
Krans Hopeson Hypercube Ventures	Posted - 2010.01.08 11:50:00 - [43] Originally by: Dibsi Dei hopefully a removal of insurance altogether People keep suggesting this, and it's a totally idiotic suggestion. Although removing insurance would remove suicide ganking, it would also make people very risk-averse, and would severely increase the barrier to entry for noobs to PvP. Who would risk investing a great proportion of their ISK in even a battlecruiser if they knew that one mistake in a mission would lose that investment entirely? I certainly wouldn't have, when I was a new player. The result would be that people would fly much less expensive ships and would actively avoid PvP combat and risk-taking -- the very activities that make this game so much fun. This would reduce the number and value of ships being popped, thus reducing the amount of minerals removed from the game, while having very little effect on the amount of ISK flooding into the game from missioning and ratting (these vastly outweigh insurance as sources of ISK), and the prices of minerals would crash hard. Miners and T1 manufacturers would leave the game, as it wouldn't be at all practical to actually make money by those activities. Since mining and T1 manufacturing are the best ways to start out as an industrialist, a disproportionately large proportion of those quitting would be newbies. Deprived of targets (who would want to pay the full cost of a nullsec war?), PvP pilots would start leaving the game as well. If, instead, insurance was removed only when you get CONCORDoken, pretty much all of the fun would still be in the game. It would still be feasible to take a gang of destroyers and blow up a Hulk in hi-sec, but you'd have to carefully choose the targets to make sure that the dropped modules were likely to be valuable enough to pay for replacing the destroyers and fittings. As the Hulkageddon II killboard testifies, there are a lot of people still willing to fit highly valuable modules on what is a pretty much paper-thin ship. The balance between risk/effort/lulz would be preserved, with very little macro-scale effect on the market. TL;DR removing insurance entirely would kill EVE. Instead, remove insurance when getting CONCORDed. -- "The only stupid question is the one you don't ask."
Anosh	Posted - 2010.01.08 12:02:00 - [44] Originally by: Dors Venabily Originally by: Dibsi Dei hopefully a removal of insurance altogether /this I can remember the times when it was "this", and the forums were full of whining about how nobody took risks, and there was never anybody to kill. The insurance system was intended to entice more PvP contact,and help prevent turning noobs away after their first big ship loss, and it worked iirc. Insurance should be changed to zero payout to Concord loss. That would seem simplest and fairest to all. Insurance will remain an irrelevance to the pimpfitter, but still an encouragement for "normal" PvP (at least on tech 1 ships), and is good for people still learning the game to take risks without losing everything. If the pimpfit guy makes a targetting error, imho thats his bad, as much as it should cost suicide gankers more to indulge, but not too much :) - they are providing good punishment for the unwary and poorly fitted. So, on balance this event will have been a big benefit to the game provided the right changes are made as a result. Eliminating insurance would be a daft thing to do. Zero payout for Concord loss is the only change needed.
Zhu Wei Caldari Black Sun Armada	Posted - 2010.01.08 12:21:00 - [45] Originally by: Medidranda Livoga I don¦t see any reason for gankers to stop ganking exhumers. Expensive, helpless and ganking ships are super cheap. Just waiting until some alliance/s start rotating people to gank mission runners and miners, while replacing ships for free as well. I think you could pretty much freeze all major mission hubs like that if enough people started doing this... I¦m hoping they do. Oh really? And then what will you do when there is no one to gank? Mission run or mine maybe?
Juliette DuBois	Posted - 2010.01.08 12:26:00 - [46] Crawl back to some low-sec hole where they belong I suppose... Or idle and look for skill counter ticking.
Tzarus	Posted - 2010.01.08 12:30:00 - [47] But, removal of the insurance if you get concordokken won't stop gankers because, as they stated over and over, they do it just for the "lolz & tearz". Sure they won't care to assume the losses of their ships for the fun, after all they are pvpers, don't they? :P Ok, this was a troll, I was just bored..
Calydonian Boar	Posted - 2010.01.08 12:41:00 - [48] hulkageddon has nothing to do with eve mechanics, it's basic ganking and provides activity to the market, as victims grab new ships from market and continue mining until they are ganked again and gankers buy more dessies / cruisers / BCs and BSs in order to gank more. After that gankers go 0.0 in order to do security ratting, sometimes grab loot from the wreck or salvage them, then sell them back on the market, or may be they lose their ratting ships to 0.0 camps and buy more ships... Do you see my flow there? Its all up-and-running and creating more activity in market. People are buying more ships which means they want to continue playing the game, which means CCP is happy as well. If there is one thing in eve that is constant; its the fact that people cry but they always keep on playing because its fun. We have seen NOS, torps, nano ships get nerfed, I personally said I will quit after nano, yet I m still playing :) and that my friend, is what CCP cares about :)
Jacqueline Harrien Hulkageddon Orphanage	Posted - 2010.01.08 12:42:00 - [49] Originally by: Tzarus But, removal of the insurance if you get concordokken won't stop gankers because, as they stated over and over, they do it just for the "lolz & tearz". Correct. The lulz from popping a Hulk are easily worth 1m ISK per gank ship to me. I'm not complaining about insurance, though!
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:16:00 - [50] I've said it before and I'll say it again to all those of you advocating the removal of insurance for Concord related deaths. It won't stop suicide ganking. Most ganks are carried out by cheap destroyer gangs. Net value (before insurance) for the whole gang <10mil isk. I'd pay that to gank a Hulk in a heartbeat. WRT ganking for profit, it will merely raise the threshold at which a gank becomes profitable. CCP had this option a couple of patches ago. It was either nerf insurance payouts or increase Concord response time. They chose the latter for good reason. I'm sure there are dozens of Concord deaths every day unrelated to suicide ganking, especially on noobs who are unaware of the mechanics. Suicide ganking ISN'T that big of a problem. It's certainly not as widespread as the hysterical carebears on these boards would have you believe. There are plenty of means in game to protect yourself from being suicide ganked. If you are unwilling to make use of these methods then you deserve everything you get.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:28:00 - [51] Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 13:34:54 Well, I mean, CCP nerfed suicide ganking when it became apparent that people were exploiting it for profits to a degree that was not consistent with what they felt was appropriate. The difference here is that the gankers are doing it for pleasure, not profit. However, for the same reason can baiting and popping newbies in 1.0 starter systems is considered an exploit, I wouldn't put it past them to implement more hurdles to suicide ganking if and when it becomes prolific enough to impede on the general day to day content of the game as it concerns mining itself. Obviously there is a wealth of industry related content and game mechanic that has been developed by the CCP staff over years and years, so if it comes down to whether or not they are willing to let the player community strip that bare and render it rather trivial, is the real question. Right now, 1k kills in a few days does not sound like much, but after six months of this? Well, you get the picture. Best case scenario is they further limit the activities of outlaws in Empire space so that those who just want a cheap thrill or to participate in a yearly or even biannual contest CAN do so a number of times before they aren't allowed to anymore without grinding sec. The reason I say this is because since the introduction of the Orca, outlaws have been using it as a quick and dirty way to get the drop on anything and everyone anywhere in space. Now while it is not a problem per say, it IS a problem concerning game mechanic. Obviously an industrial ship with a maintenance bay was not designed by CCP to be used as transport for PvP ships so a gang of outlaws that are supposed to be KOS to faction Navy forces, can circumvent the mechanic. I think the only reason CCP hasn't addressed this yet is because there's no sweet solution to it other than a nerf to outlaws, but with the Orca workaround alone, it is not enough for them to make a move, now with increased interest in griefing miners, we'll see. Worst case scenario is they hit everything within a mile with the nerf hammer and not only do the miners and the industry content of the game as it relates to mining suffer but so do the people who started it. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:37:00 - [52] Originally by: Mendolus The difference here is that the gankers are doing it for pleasure, not profit. People doing something for fun in a game? Quick! To the nerfmobile! There are actually some serious economic factors and wealth people driving this event, without whom it wouldn't have happened. Originally by: Mendolus Right now, 1k kills in a few days does not sound like much, but after six months of this? Well, you get the picture. Your an moran. You do realise that not only is this event due to last for only a week but also maintaining this level of boat violencing is both unsustainable and gets quite boring after a while. However if you want to see six months of this I'm sure it could be arranged.
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:42:00 - [53] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer You do realise that not only is this event due to last for only a week but also maintaining this level of boat violencing is both unsustainable and gets quite boring after a while. However if you want to see six months of this I'm sure it could be arranged. I know I cant sustain this level of evemail spam and convo requests for more than a week. I haven't slept more than 4 hours in DAYS already >_<
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:43:00 - [54] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Originally by: Mendolus The difference here is that the gankers are doing it for pleasure, not profit. People doing something for fun in a game? Quick! To the nerfmobile! There are actually some serious economic factors and wealth people driving this event, without whom it wouldn't have happened. Originally by: Mendolus Right now, 1k kills in a few days does not sound like much, but after six months of this? Well, you get the picture. Your an moran. You do realise that not only is this event due to last for only a week but also maintaining this level of boat violencing is both unsustainable and gets quite boring after a while. However if you want to see six months of this I'm sure it could be arranged. What's a moran? {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:45:00 - [55] Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Originally by: Mendolus The difference here is that the gankers are doing it for pleasure, not profit. People doing something for fun in a game? Quick! To the nerfmobile! There are actually some serious economic factors and wealth people driving this event, without whom it wouldn't have happened. Originally by: Mendolus Right now, 1k kills in a few days does not sound like much, but after six months of this? Well, you get the picture. Your an moran. You do realise that not only is this event due to last for only a week but also maintaining this level of boat violencing is both unsustainable and gets quite boring after a while. However if you want to see six months of this I'm sure it could be arranged. What's a moran? Here, see this
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:50:00 - [56] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Originally by: Mendolus The difference here is that the gankers are doing it for pleasure, not profit. People doing something for fun in a game? Quick! To the nerfmobile! There are actually some serious economic factors and wealth people driving this event, without whom it wouldn't have happened. Originally by: Mendolus Right now, 1k kills in a few days does not sound like much, but after six months of this? Well, you get the picture. Your an moran. You do realise that not only is this event due to last for only a week but also maintaining this level of boat violencing is both unsustainable and gets quite boring after a while. However if you want to see six months of this I'm sure it could be arranged. What's a moran? Here, see this You seem to be under the impression that CCP likes it when people use the game content contrary to the years and months they have spent developing it. All I am stating is that if outlaws continue using the Orca for more and more suicide gangs, eventually CCP will have enough reason to ** everyone off by nerfing it or the outlaws themselves. When has this NOT happened in the past, pray tell? Let's see, can baiting noobs, renaming cans and scrambling them, lofty scams, crazy amounts of suicide ganks with little meaningful security penalties, falcons gone wild, nano fits as far as the eye can see, free form contracts, a plethora of warp to 0m bookmarks, titan kaboom fleet go poof, POS spamming... man I could go on forever If CCP takes a look at stupid useless free form contracts that no one uses except scammers and finally after years of misuse goes, "Let's fix that." what do you think will happen to outlaws using Orca as a slingshot to circumvent the faction navy mechanic? Either they get the nerf hammer, the Orca gets the nerf hammer, or both. What precedent has CCP NOT** set that says they will forever allow this mechanic to be used in a way that was unintentional? Who's the moran? {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Forum Reprentative	Posted - 2010.01.08 13:54:00 - [57] There's a little wolf deep inside all carebears' heart, even the most hardcore ones. I bet there's no single one that is not happy when "other carebears die". Is common sense, "better them than me", and less competence is always welcome. You don't have to outrun the Lion, just the slowest gazelle. Frankly, I'll be quite surprised if CCP take part.
Swalesey Prosperity Through Violence	Posted - 2010.01.08 14:04:00 - [58] As long as you can buy gtc to replace your broken ships, CCP will fully endorsa anything that blows them up more. don't be naive peoples. We all know there are people out there who will buy 10/20 gtc at a time to be uber at eve, fit out all there faction hulks, faction battleships with officer fits, and go about trying to dish out justice. then lose the lot and buy more gtc. As long as this happens ccp will not give a rats ass how your stuff gets blown up. 1000 hulks dead out of probably 30,000 or so (my uncalculated guesstimate number police, it's probably much more)mining accounts is nothing.
Jint Hikaru OffWorld Exploration Inc	Posted - 2010.01.08 14:08:00 - [59] Quote: We already had one. It was a draw. I am a little late with this but.... Pics or it never happened! ------------------------ Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer "I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!" ------------------------
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 14:16:00 - [60] Originally by: Mendolus You seem to be under the impression that CCP likes it when people use the game content contrary to the years and months they have spent developing it. All I am stating is that if outlaws continue using the Orca for more and more suicide gangs, eventually CCP will have enough reason to ** everyone off by nerfing it or the outlaws themselves. When has this NOT happened in the past, pray tell? Let's see, can baiting noobs, renaming cans and scrambling them, lofty scams, crazy amounts of suicide ganks with little meaningful security penalties, falcons gone wild, nano fits as far as the eye can see, free form contracts, a plethora of warp to 0m bookmarks, titan kaboom fleet go poof, POS spamming... man I could go on forever If CCP takes a look at stupid useless free form contracts that no one uses except scammers and finally after years of misuse goes, "Let's fix that." what do you think will happen to outlaws using Orca as a slingshot to circumvent the faction navy mechanic? Either they get the nerf hammer, the Orca gets the nerf hammer, or both. What precedent has CCP NOT** set that says they will forever allow this mechanic to be used in a way that was unintentional? Who's the moran? Where did I mention the Orca in my quotes? If you are concerned about the use of Orcas... don't be. It's a myth perpetrated by one or two idiot carebears who know nothing about game mechanics (ie you). Only a small fraction of the suicide gankers I know operate in conjunction with an Orca and even then for deep strikes 5-10 jumps into hisec. Given it's pathetic SMA size and the constraints of the 15 minute GCC and the ease at which -10's can travel through hisec you are really putting yourself at a disadvantage by using one. And how is it's use unintentional? Also as stated before this is a one off event, this is only lasting a week and is proportionally only affecting a tiny number of Empire miners. It's only the hysterical posting of people like yourself that is drawing attention to the 'issue'. Your an moran.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 14:20:00 - [61] Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 14:21:15 Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Originally by: Mendolus You seem to be under the impression that CCP likes it when people use the game content contrary to the years and months they have spent developing it. All I am stating is that if outlaws continue using the Orca for more and more suicide gangs, eventually CCP will have enough reason to ** everyone off by nerfing it or the outlaws themselves. When has this NOT happened in the past, pray tell? Let's see, can baiting noobs, renaming cans and scrambling them, lofty scams, crazy amounts of suicide ganks with little meaningful security penalties, falcons gone wild, nano fits as far as the eye can see, free form contracts, a plethora of warp to 0m bookmarks, titan kaboom fleet go poof, POS spamming... man I could go on forever If CCP takes a look at stupid useless free form contracts that no one uses except scammers and finally after years of misuse goes, "Let's fix that." what do you think will happen to outlaws using Orca as a slingshot to circumvent the faction navy mechanic? Either they get the nerf hammer, the Orca gets the nerf hammer, or both. What precedent has CCP NOT** set that says they will forever allow this mechanic to be used in a way that was unintentional? Who's the moran? Where did I mention the Orca in my quotes? If you are concerned about the use of Orcas... don't be. It's a myth perpetrated by one or two idiot carebears who know nothing about game mechanics (ie you). Only a small fraction of the suicide gankers I know operate in conjunction with an Orca and even then for deep strikes 5-10 jumps into hisec. Given it's pathetic SMA size and the constraints of the 15 minute GCC and the ease at which -10's can travel through hisec you are really putting yourself at a disadvantage by using one. And how is it's use unintentional? Also as stated before this is a one off event, this is only lasting a week and is proportionally only affecting a tiny number of Empire miners. It's only the hysterical posting of people like yourself that is drawing attention to the 'issue'. Your an moran. Everything works out exactly as you say in your own little world doesn't it? It must be a pretty boring world, I imagine, to always be so damned right about everything. Btw your overblown reactions and absolute and immediate disparagement of opinions differing from your own, are a tell tale sign, my friend. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 14:30:00 - [62] Edited by: Larkonis TrassIer on 08/01/2010 14:31:06 Originally by: Mendolus Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 14:25:52 Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Originally by: Mendolus You seem to be under the impression that CCP likes it when people use the game content contrary to the years and months they have spent developing it. All I am stating is that if outlaws continue using the Orca for more and more suicide gangs, eventually CCP will have enough reason to ** everyone off by nerfing it or the outlaws themselves. When has this NOT happened in the past, pray tell? Let's see, can baiting noobs, renaming cans and scrambling them, lofty scams, crazy amounts of suicide ganks with little meaningful security penalties, falcons gone wild, nano fits as far as the eye can see, free form contracts, a plethora of warp to 0m bookmarks, titan kaboom fleet go poof, POS spamming... man I could go on forever If CCP takes a look at stupid useless free form contracts that no one uses except scammers and finally after years of misuse goes, "Let's fix that." what do you think will happen to outlaws using Orca as a slingshot to circumvent the faction navy mechanic? Either they get the nerf hammer, the Orca gets the nerf hammer, or both. What precedent has CCP NOT** set that says they will forever allow this mechanic to be used in a way that was unintentional? Who's the moran? Where did I mention the Orca in my quotes? If you are concerned about the use of Orcas... don't be. It's a myth perpetrated by one or two idiot carebears who know nothing about game mechanics (ie you). Only a small fraction of the suicide gankers I know operate in conjunction with an Orca and even then for deep strikes 5-10 jumps into hisec. Given it's pathetic SMA size and the constraints of the 15 minute GCC and the ease at which -10's can travel through hisec you are really putting yourself at a disadvantage by using one. And how is it's use unintentional? Also as stated before this is a one off event, this is only lasting a week and is proportionally only affecting a tiny number of Empire miners. It's only the hysterical posting of people like yourself that is drawing attention to the 'issue'. Your an moran. Everything works out exactly as you say in your own little world doesn't it? It must be a pretty boring world, I imagine, to always be so damned right about everything. Btw your overblown reactions and absolute and immediate disparagement of opinions differing from your own, are a tell tale sign, my friend. I may be right, I may be wrong, but repeatedly calling me names a four year old would know simply because I do not agree with you, is a bit childish. Over reacting to my points with a completely off topic matter followed by not bothering to combat my retorts with any sort of reasonable arguement, instead falling back onto some sort of 'I'm intelectually superior, I don't have to argue with you' platform is surely the sign of the winner in any debate. Well done sir. Page 3 snypah btw.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 14:35:00 - [63] Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 14:45:09 Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Over reacting to my points with a completely off topic matter followed by not bothering to combat my retorts with any sort of reasonable arguement, instead falling back onto some sort of 'I'm intelectually superior, I don't have to argue with you' platform is surely the sign of the winner in any debate. Well done sir. Page 3 snypah btw. I'm not arguing against you because you are using a straw man argument, one which happens to have enough truth that I do not feel like arguing semantics, at this time there is little reason to suspect that CCP will take action, yes, who would think otherwise? However, if the behavior in question (be it Hulkageddons of increasing frequency more than a yearly or outlaws in Orcas, whether one believes it happens more or less often than not) continues to escalate, we all know CCP will eventually take notice, as it has a history of doing so. So while I continue to argue historical fact and a FUTURE hypothetical, you keep telling me I am wrong, because that's not the way it is NOW. You see the problem here? Why would I argue, again? {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Kryss Stevenson Caldari Red Stallion Mercantile and Manufacturing	Posted - 2010.01.08 16:24:00 - [64] If you are bringing up the past nerfs you have to look at why they nerfed them in the first place. The nano nerf was due to the fact that the speeds the ships where going at where actually breaking the game engine (if memory serves me correctly on that). The baiting of Noobs? This game is rough enough to start playing without someone who thinks that it is fun to kick toddlers around. If you think that Concord should protect the high sec miners you should read some of the background material to find out where in society pod pilots reside. Concord is in a sense not here to protect us as to more protect this galaxy from us. On the side note I think this whole even is a blastà at least local is a bit livelier now. Btw due to rl responsibilities I can only play about 3 hours per day (non consecutive) and mostly I mine during that time.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 16:38:00 - [65] Originally by: Kryss Stevenson If you are bringing up the past nerfs you have to look at why they nerfed them in the first place. The nano nerf was due to the fact that the speeds the ships where going at where actually breaking the game engine (if memory serves me correctly on that). The baiting of Noobs? This game is rough enough to start playing without someone who thinks that it is fun to kick toddlers around. If you think that Concord should protect the high sec miners you should read some of the background material to find out where in society pod pilots reside. Concord is in a sense not here to protect us as to more protect this galaxy from us. On the side note I think this whole even is a blastà at least local is a bit livelier now. Btw due to rl responsibilities I can only play about 3 hours per day (non consecutive) and mostly I mine during that time. Granted, but if miners in marginally prevalent systems could no longer undock at any time without a legitimate fear of being suicide ganked, you do not think CCP would take note? I understand and laud the notion that EVE is dynamic, and when you hit the undock button, you are agreeing to an unspoken rule that your ship is now in the hands of chance and circumstance, but there has to be a limit. What strikes me is that a lot of people do not look at it the way I am trying to get them to. We are talking behavior at the social level, not individual level. If the behavior becomes prevalent enough, action must be taken, nano was not nerfed until EVERYONE was fitting it, regardless of ship. The rule when I began playing was you nano fit your ship for PvP, or you do not undock. About six months or so later, CCP hits nano with the nerf hammer. Capice? I'm talking about frequency, if the frequency reaches a threshold, whatever it is, that makes CCP take note, I guarantee you they will take action. Right now? Not a chance. Later? Only time will tell. I am talking extremes, not averages, if there was a weekly Hulkageddon, and 25% of the miners in all of EVE were losing their ships nightly, why would CCP NOT take action? I still do not understand why when I talk about extremes, there is inevitably someone like Lark who starts ranting and acting stark raving mad, that I should dare suggest that extreme and prevalent behaviors by the player base that are not congruent with the design plan of the developers results in a response from the game developers. It's just common sense. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Spectre3353 Gallente The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.01.08 16:50:00 - [66] Originally by: clamslayer So we are all stoked about how successful hulkageddon has been this year, its been just over 24 hours and there are more kills on the first day than i expected. I thought if it was a success there would be 500 exhumer kills at the end of the event. I expect the number to pass 1000 exhumer kills. So what does everyone think ccp will do to aid the high sec miner in being safer? We all know that the random killing of hulks will continue after the event and will add to the pile of petitions that are going to be made during this week. -I expect insurance to be changed, possibly a zero isk payout to pilots killed by concord, or a partial payout -Security status hits may be sharpened -maneuverability of ships with -5 sec status pilots may get nerfed aswell who knows.. im just curious to know what my fellow "griefers" expect 8==(!) I was thinking about it and here are some really good changes I think that CCP could give miners to help them avoid being suicide ganked so much: (1) Provide some sort of scanner so that miners can see what ships are nearby and potentially dangerous. Maybe add some sort of way to check by distance so they can tell if a group of ships suddenly appear at close range. (2) Allow Hulks or other barges to move. If they could align like other ships then they could warp faster when danger appears. (3) Provide some sort of list so that miners can see what other pilots are system, what their security status is and if they are in the same corp. If miners could see new pilots enter system then it would go a long way towards being able to predict a potential ganker. (4) Give Hulks low and/or mid slots so that they can fit a tank. (5) Create some sort of NPC protection in highsec that retaliates against people who make unwarranted attacks. Maybe something that would automatically appear and blow up the attacker within mere moments. I'm sure there are many more good ideas out there as well. Hopefully CCP implements them soon so that us poor miners who are completely defenseless and always getting the short end of the stick can somehow survive in the harsh environment that is highsec. -----
Kryss Stevenson Caldari Red Stallion Mercantile and Manufacturing	Posted - 2010.01.08 17:00:00 - [67] The two worst case scenarios of this event is either all the hulks get blown up or all the miners just dock up for this event. The end result is the same. No minerals to market, no minerals for manufacturing, no ships for the gank squads, no mining ships being ganked. The organizers know full well that this event canÆt go on that long and not due to CCP intervention, but due to manufacturing and trading slow down. So the whole system equates itself out and rebalances. A weekly Hulkageddon would quickly run out of targets to shoot even if done once a month.
Juliette DuBois	Posted - 2010.01.08 17:04:00 - [68] Well, then you could start ganking mission runners instead...
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 17:06:00 - [69] Originally by: Kryss Stevenson The two worst case scenarios of this event is either all the hulks get blown up or all the miners just dock up for this event. The end result is the same. No minerals to market, no minerals for manufacturing, no ships for the gank squads, no mining ships being ganked. The organizers know full well that this event canÆt go on that long and not due to CCP intervention, but due to manufacturing and trading slow down. So the whole system equates itself out and rebalances. A weekly Hulkageddon would quickly run out of targets to shoot even if done once a month. Let's hope so. It's all fun and games until CCP nerfs the crud out of everyone and their dog, then it's disappointing and full of regret, lol. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
El'Tar Caldari Genos Occidere	Posted - 2010.01.08 17:21:00 - [70] Originally by: Kryss Stevenson The two worst case scenarios of this event is either all the hulks get blown up or all the miners just dock up for this event. The end result is the same. No minerals to market, no minerals for manufacturing, no ships for the gank squads, no mining ships being ganked. The organizers know full well that this event canÆt go on that long and not due to CCP intervention, but due to manufacturing and trading slow down. So the whole system equates itself out and rebalances. A weekly Hulkageddon would quickly run out of targets to shoot even if done once a month. 40% Of all minerals come from Mission runners reprocessing ________________________________________________
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.08 17:23:00 - [71] Edited by: FunzzeR on 08/01/2010 17:23:50 Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Kryss Stevenson The two worst case scenarios of this event is either all the hulks get blown up or all the miners just dock up for this event. The end result is the same. No minerals to market, no minerals for manufacturing, no ships for the gank squads, no mining ships being ganked. The organizers know full well that this event canÆt go on that long and not due to CCP intervention, but due to manufacturing and trading slow down. So the whole system equates itself out and rebalances. A weekly Hulkageddon would quickly run out of targets to shoot even if done once a month. Let's hope so. It's all fun and games until CCP nerfs the crud out of everyone and their dog, then it's disappointing and full of regret, lol. Ah but you assume high sec will be safe again if CCP nerfs ganking. I beg to differ, we will as always adapt and find new ways to bring risk to empire and its inhabitants. Moreover careful what you wish for as CCP may also change (read: remove) insurance mechanics to prevent insurance fraud/arbitrage. I love seeing all the people using overly simplified supply/demand models to justify why fewer miners will mean higher mineral prices, no ships built etc. Good way to ignore the 900 lb gorilla in the room that is refined mission loot. Otherwise carry on I am thoroughly enjoying the show. And may my brothers in arms continue to gank many more Hulks. EDIT: typos PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Taxesarebad	Posted - 2010.01.08 17:25:00 - [72] 0 isk payout for concord kills it the only one that would make sense... and how people said that would hurt anyone but pirates is a moron... a normal person doesnt " oops i shot u" in highsec.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 17:32:00 - [73] Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 17:33:10 Originally by: FunzzeR Edited by: FunzzeR on 08/01/2010 17:23:50 Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Kryss Stevenson The two worst case scenarios of this event is either all the hulks get blown up or all the miners just dock up for this event. The end result is the same. No minerals to market, no minerals for manufacturing, no ships for the gank squads, no mining ships being ganked. The organizers know full well that this event canÆt go on that long and not due to CCP intervention, but due to manufacturing and trading slow down. So the whole system equates itself out and rebalances. A weekly Hulkageddon would quickly run out of targets to shoot even if done once a month. Let's hope so. It's all fun and games until CCP nerfs the crud out of everyone and their dog, then it's disappointing and full of regret, lol. Ah but you assume high sec will be safe again if CCP nerfs ganking. I beg to differ, we will as always adapt and find new ways to bring risk to empire and its inhabitants. Moreover careful what you wish for as CCP may also change (read: remove) insurance mechanics to prevent insurance fraud/arbitrage. I love seeing all the people using overly simplified supply/demand models to justify why fewer miners will mean higher mineral prices, no ships built etc. Good way to ignore the 900 lb gorilla in the room that is refined mission loot. Otherwise carry on I am thoroughly enjoying the show. And may my brothers in arms continue to gank many more Hulks. EDIT: typos My only suggestion is to limit outlaw's use of Empire space and modify the Orca's maintenance bay to only accept industrials since freighters can haul rigged ships in contracts already. The limiting factor could be as simple as making it a CONCORD (or I should say, make it faster) instead of a Navy response when outlaws or those with poor faction like pirates who run pirate missions board combat ships in Empire, since they are technically always under a global flag. However, the problem here is that it would literally nullify an outlaw's ability to perpetrate crimes in Empire, which is too big of a nerf. I do not see any other changes CCP would or could make however and they have a tendency to hit a problem with a ball-peen hammer after letting it stew and fester for half a year or more rather than approach it cautiously and take small incremental steps. As it stands, I am still citing an extreme, if we see weekly Hulkageddons, or increases in outlaws suicide ganking in Empire for no other reason than to grief other players, there's no doubt in my mind CCP will eventually address the issue. They have already buffed security standings loss, and if they find that has not balanced the player drive content of the game enough so that all parties involved get equal amounts of fun AND danger, they'll undoubtedly take even more aggressive action. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Kryss Stevenson Caldari Red Stallion Mercantile and Manufacturing	Posted - 2010.01.08 17:32:00 - [74] I know it is an over simplified supply and demand model it is easier to explain it that way. If you look at it that way there is more than one way to mine (actual mining and loot grinding) In all respects the EVE economy should not be working the way that it is, but it does. And even if 40% comes from mission loot that still means 60% comes from mining (or the Drone region if you go that route), but now we are talking economics and not criminal intent which Hulkageddon is. Either way Hulkageddon sounds much better than Missionageddon.
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 17:37:00 - [75] Originally by: Taxesarebad 0 isk payout for concord kills it the only one that would make sense... and how people said that would hurt anyone but pirates is a moron... a normal person doesnt " oops i shot u" in highsec. Yes they do and as stated before it would change nothing.
Awesome Possum Imperium Signal Corps	Posted - 2010.01.08 17:40:00 - [76] Originally by: Mendolus You seem to be under the impression that CCP likes it when people use the game content contrary to the years and months they have spent developing it. You seem to be under the impression that suicide ganking, as it is now, is contrary to how CCP has spent years and months developing it. God the tears in this thread. So sweet /rubs them over my naked body ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 17:42:00 - [77] Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 17:44:08 Originally by: Kryss Stevenson I know it is an over simplified supply and demand model it is easier to explain it that way. If you look at it that way there is more than one way to mine (actual mining and loot grinding) In all respects the EVE economy should not be working the way that it is, but it does. And even if 40% comes from mission loot that still means 60% comes from mining (or the Drone region if you go that route), but now we are talking economics and not criminal intent which Hulkageddon is. Either way Hulkageddon sounds much better than Missionageddon. Agreed, and I think you hit the nail on the head. The point most of us are trying to make is that EVERYONE in the game should be able to get both entertainment value out of the game, but not be absolutely safe from others at all times, as this is a PvP game in every aspect of the word. Miners should be able to undock a good portion of the time and not have a reasonable expectation that they are going to lose their 100mil ship in under an hour, which when you factor in a solo Hulk making only a dozen mil an hour, does not add up. PvPers should be able to go about suicide ganking within reason, but not so easily that there are not enough consequences to keep them ALL from doing it ALL the time. I think the whole point that miners should not cry over their losses is a little short sided in some sense because what takes a gang of a few Dessies to destroy it seconds, may have taken almost twelve hours to mine the ISK for. The math is not favorable for this. Suicide ganking actual profitable targets was the same way. PvPers were able to suicide gank at an alarming rate, and making considerable income, with relatively benign consequences. Meanwhile anyone who flew even a relatively limited amount of expensive cargo in ships, had to worry that dozens of hours worth of their work, was going to go up in smoke within seconds of jumping through one too many gates in Empire. CCP balanced it out, now the gankers have to pick their targets more carefully, and the haulers just have to be careful not to make the ship TOO valuable, but not so much as they had been previously. IMO there should be more consequences than there are at present. -10.0 outlaws should not be able to purchase and fit 2-3 mil Dessie builds, board an Orca or fly to a planet where a neutral has dropped the ships off perosnally, and go out and repeatedly gank +100mil ships, when it takes an outlaw five minutes to pop a couple BS at belts in 0.0 to afford those ships, but it takes a dedicated miner almost twelve hours to afford his own ship. The gankers get to enjoy the content of the gamer while the miner do what, put up with it? We saw what happened with the new wave of pirates came into low sec in the middle of '08 and ran all the carebears out out of low sec. The only problem is, where do the carebear players of the game have to go in Empire if Empire itself destabilizes? Nowhere. The math is not there, which is the writing on the wall for me personally, that if it gets bad enough, CCP will most certainly address the issue. Originally by: Awesome Possum Originally by: Mendolus You seem to be under the impression that CCP likes it when people use the game content contrary to the years and months they have spent developing it. You seem to be under the impression that suicide ganking, as it is now, is contrary to how CCP has spent years and months developing it. God the tears in this thread. So sweet /rubs them over my naked body No, I said if too many people start taking part in it, it will be contrary to how CCP spent years developing the game. Why do you think they buffed security loss previously? Please do answer. Did you fail freshmen English or something? {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.01.08 17:46:00 - [78] Originally by: Mendolus Agreed, and I think you hit the nail on the head. The point most of us are trying to make is that EVERYONE in the game should be able to get both entertainment value out of the game, but not be absolutely safe from others at all times, as this is a PvP game in every aspect of the word. Blah blah blah blather Go LOOK at the kills, and SEE how half of them have NO tank fitted, at all. and the ones that DO have a tank fitted dont bother turning it on. No pity from me for playing like that...
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 17:51:00 - [79] Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 17:53:38 Originally by: Helicity Boson Originally by: Mendolus Agreed, and I think you hit the nail on the head. The point most of us are trying to make is that EVERYONE in the game should be able to get both entertainment value out of the game, but not be absolutely safe from others at all times, as this is a PvP game in every aspect of the word. Blah blah blah blather Go LOOK at the kills, and SEE how half of them have NO tank fitted, at all. and the ones that DO have a tank fitted dont bother turning it on. No pity from me for playing like that... Do you think EVE would be a better game if there were no industry? I mean, if all ships were seeded, and the only way to acquire them was through bounties on NPC ships? No salvage, no loot, no minerals, just bounties. Let's face it, carebears and industrials are just that, squishy. Whether they have a tank or not matters little in the grand scheme of things. They're still going to die (if caught) because it's not a PvP ship. Let's say CCP fixed the price of an Apocalypse at 80,000,000.00 ISK. I can rake in about 20,000,000.00 ISK in bounties an hour in my own Apocalypse out in 0.0 on a good night in a system with two dozen belts. That means I spend four hours farming for one seeded ship. There's no player competition, it's seeded, I don't get a choice, I pay what the developers tell me I pay. Is that your kind of EVE? {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:19:00 - [80] Originally by: Mendolus :words: Miners who pay attention to local, fit their ships properly and keep their eye on the ball have nothing to worry about. There are plenty of ways to avoid becoming a victim or limiting your losses if your mining op does get caught with it's pants down. I guarentee if you find an anomoly or mission to mine in you will not be bothered at all. Your visions of high sec becoming so infested with gankers stalking any and every hulk which undocks will never happen because: 1. There is no incentive for it (isk/hour for suicide ganking lone hulks is pathetic), unless someone is willing to sponsor prizes for the next 6+months. Aside from Hulkageddon 1 which was a casual, 24 hour, secret event all other events of this nature have been for economic gain, be it Jihadswarm (they didn't attack ice miners in Minmatar space for a reason), corps running their own events in order to extort miners (I know of one corp who was getting paid 400mil a month not to go and gank in a certain system). 2. It gets quite dull after a while. 3. Nobody is going to go more than 4 jumps from their lowsec pirate moonbase in order to gank someone. PS, in case you missed it the first time around: ORCAS ARE NOT USED BY SUICIDE SQUADS. THERE IS NO NEED FOR THEM. It's a myth perpetrated by whiners after one person mentioned it's use. Really, using one is more effort than it's worth and unless you are using it as a Deep Strike Vessel against a specific target 6+ jumps into hisec it's worthless. And how is it not being used as intended? People wanted a hisec capable ship with a SMA, CHA, fitting service, good cargo hold and gang links. Pirates using it in such a way are of course using it as designed, albeit with a bit of creative thinking. It's what we do. Adapt and overcome. Again with suicide ganking haulers pre nerf and now... there were plenty of methods to avoid becoming a victim and there still are. What it boils down to is this: Empire dwellers are unwilling to change their playstyle to adapt to the risks that are present and instead lobby CCP for game changes.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:22:00 - [81] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Again with suicide ganking haulers pre nerf and now... there were plenty of methods to avoid becoming a victim and there still are. What it boils down to is this: Empire dwellers are unwilling to change their playstyle to adapt to the risks that are present and instead lobby CCP for game changes. I agree to a certain level. All I am saying is that IF the pattern escalates, CCP will take action nonetheless. We can agree on that right? {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:24:00 - [82] Originally by: Kryss Stevenson I know it is an over simplified supply and demand model it is easier to explain it that way. If you look at it that way there is more than one way to mine (actual mining and loot grinding) In all respects the EVE economy should not be working the way that it is, but it does. And even if 40% comes from mission loot that still means 60% comes from mining (or the Drone region if you go that route), but now we are talking economics and not criminal intent which Hulkageddon is. Either way Hulkageddon sounds much better than Missionageddon. Ah but this "criminal intent" has an economic impact, thus it would be foolish to exclude it from the discussion. If the data from one of the older QEN is still somewhat reliable there are 10,000 hulks in space on tq, not including other mining barges/exhumers. That sort of population data indicates to me that the 356 hulks killed is relatively paltry. Even if I included a rather liberal estimate of 2,000 of those hulks deciding to stay docked (not everyone reads the fourms) for the duration of hulkageddon, I would imagine that there is very little effect mineral prices, I dare say that the insurance arbitrage operations are having larger effect on mineral prices. But alas only CCP knows, the data would make for some very interesting regression analysis. Still there are a number of variables that have been omitted. For starters, the assumption is made that we "pirates" are dependent on the market for our gank gear. I imagine some groups have their own industrial backbone or have "pets" supplying them with ships and mods at reasonable prices. The reasoning to take into account is that hulkageddon is breathing life into a mostly stagnant ship market. Since not only the hulks are being destroyed but the battleships though destroyers that are being used to gank in the first place are being destroyed. Something the market needs given the lack of a significant war in 0.0. Of course the rub is that mineral prices are low enough that the build cost of the ships is significantly lower than insurance payout minus cost of insuring the ship. This leads to a monumental isk faucet that needs to be corrected to prevent that pesky thing called inflation. Higher mineral prices may provide a temporary player driven fix until CCP adjusts insurance. ( Not that I am complaining, I have made many billions from insurance arbitrage ) Quote: My only suggestion is to limit outlaw's use of Empire space and modify the Orca's maintenance bay to only accept industrials since freighters can haul rigged ships in contracts already. Careful for what you wish for, I hear plenty of people use orcas for moving ships into and out of wormholes. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:28:00 - [83] Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Again with suicide ganking haulers pre nerf and now... there were plenty of methods to avoid becoming a victim and there still are. What it boils down to is this: Empire dwellers are unwilling to change their playstyle to adapt to the risks that are present and instead lobby CCP for game changes. I agree to a certain level. All I am saying is that IF the pattern escalates, CCP will take action nonetheless. We can agree on that right? They might. But I guarentee it won't get to that stage.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:28:00 - [84] Originally by: FunzzeR Quote: My only suggestion is to limit outlaw's use of Empire space and modify the Orca's maintenance bay to only accept industrials since freighters can haul rigged ships in contracts already. Careful for what you wish for, I hear plenty of people use orcas for moving ships into and out of wormholes. Granted, but I think those are the only options CCP has that wouldn't **** off half the subscribers in the process. If/when these things become an issue, I think those are the only solutions CCP is going to have in their hand that most of us would not be infuriated to suffer. I was pretty displeased with the huge hammer they hit the Falcon with myself, but neither did I want roll around in a ubiquitous ship that reeked of "I am the epitome of FOTM!" and etc. let alone its previous ability to jam half a gang out at a ridiculous and much too safe range. You can still barely squeeze out getting out of the range of sentries depending on your position around the gate, so it's not like they killed the range factor, just severely maimed it. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Awesome Possum Imperium Signal Corps	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:29:00 - [85] Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Awesome Possum Originally by: Mendolus You seem to be under the impression that CCP likes it when people use the game content contrary to the years and months they have spent developing it. You seem to be under the impression that suicide ganking, as it is now, is contrary to how CCP has spent years and months developing it. God the tears in this thread. So sweet /rubs them over my naked body No, I said if too many people start taking part in it, it will be contrary to how CCP spent years developing the game. Why do you think they buffed security loss previously? Please do answer. Did you fail freshmen English or something? How do you know? May I see your CCP pay stub please. They buffed security loss previously to its point in time now... which is what we are talking about. Suiciding ganking, at this point in time now, with the current mechanics for and against it. I've never touched any men, fresh or otherwise. Keep training Reading Comprehension and Common Sense, you'll get 'em to 1 eventually. ♥ Wreck Disposal Services
Yalalala	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:32:00 - [86] Who is actually winning? What's the scores?
De'Veldrin Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:32:00 - [87] Originally by: FunzzeR Quote: My only suggestion is to limit outlaw's use of Empire space and modify the Orca's maintenance bay to only accept industrials since freighters can haul rigged ships in contracts already. Careful for what you wish for, I hear plenty of people use orcas for moving ships into and out of wormholes. This. You nerf my Orca's ship bay, and I'll be ****ed. --Vel Brand new year, same old attitude.
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:37:00 - [88] Edited by: FunzzeR on 08/01/2010 18:37:14 Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Again with suicide ganking haulers pre nerf and now... there were plenty of methods to avoid becoming a victim and there still are. What it boils down to is this: Empire dwellers are unwilling to change their playstyle to adapt to the risks that are present and instead lobby CCP for game changes. I agree to a certain level. All I am saying is that IF the pattern escalates, CCP will take action nonetheless. We can agree on that right? Well perhaps, but look at it from this perspective. In empire people can make more isk on a risk adjusted basis than in low sec and 0.0. This is counter intuitive to CCP's stated desire to have a progressive risk/reward system that scales upwards from hi sec to 0.0. Sure that are a number of barriers to entry that discourage people from participating in low sec and 0.0 content but ultimately it comes down to the simple fact that high sec is simple too rewarding given its risk level. (and vice versa too low sec is not rewarding enough given the risk level) Anyways the pattern has escalated to the point that most low sec and 0.0 dwellers have alts missioning and mining in high sec. Has CCP taken action? But they will eventually in an effort to bring about their vision. See what I did there? PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:39:00 - [89] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Again with suicide ganking haulers pre nerf and now... there were plenty of methods to avoid becoming a victim and there still are. What it boils down to is this: Empire dwellers are unwilling to change their playstyle to adapt to the risks that are present and instead lobby CCP for game changes. I agree to a certain level. All I am saying is that IF the pattern escalates, CCP will take action nonetheless. We can agree on that right? They might. But I guarentee it won't get to that stage. Fair enough, thank you for explaining your POV in a more reasonable manner, it is much appreciated. Part of the problem is neither of us can write out our full POV in one post, and it's easy to jump to conclusions on what one or the other does or does not think or feel, etc. Anyways, GF, I'm tired myself of the whole thing in general, I know how to survive just fine myself, though I rarely mine, I can and will when the opportunity arises, but I know full well how to avoid the most obvious pitfalls. So to me personally, none of this really matters, lol. But I like to feel invested in the game, esp. where it is going or heading, so I take interest in this kind of stuff. I think I am like most people, tired of CCP hitting everything that is fun about the game with a big bat just because people abuse a good thing. If people had more self control, we would not so frequently suffer the trials and tribulations of CCP big ball-peen hammer. Unfortunately, most MMOs I've seen are like this, the devs let things get so bad that half the subscribers are lighting torches and pitchforks, and then they hit the problem with the full monty. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Spectre3353 Gallente The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:43:00 - [90] Originally by: Yalalala Who is actually winning? What's the scores? Looks like Hydra Reloaded so far: http://hulkageddon2.griefwatch.net/?p=ranking Ironic considering Garmon put up the biggest chunk of money towards the grand prize. -----
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:45:00 - [91] Originally by: FunzzeR Edited by: FunzzeR on 08/01/2010 18:37:14 Originally by: Mendolus Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Again with suicide ganking haulers pre nerf and now... there were plenty of methods to avoid becoming a victim and there still are. What it boils down to is this: Empire dwellers are unwilling to change their playstyle to adapt to the risks that are present and instead lobby CCP for game changes. I agree to a certain level. All I am saying is that IF the pattern escalates, CCP will take action nonetheless. We can agree on that right? Well perhaps, but look at it from this perspective. In empire people can make more isk on a risk adjusted basis than in low sec and 0.0. This is counter intuitive to CCP's stated desire to have a progressive risk/reward system that scales upwards from hi sec to 0.0. Sure that are a number of barriers to entry that discourage people from participating in low sec and 0.0 content but ultimately it comes down to the simple fact that high sec is simple too rewarding given its risk level. (and vice versa too low sec is not rewarding enough given the risk level) Anyways the pattern has escalated to the point that most low sec and 0.0 dwellers have alts missioning and mining in high sec. Has CCP taken action? But they will eventually in an effort to bring about their vision. See what I did there? Agreed, but I don't think letting Empire get worse in some sense while low security remains the same (worthless except for research) will make the game better in the long run. People are spoiling for something MORE to do in this game, more entertainment, and this is why there has been a rise in merc corps, griefers, and yes Hulkageddons and the like for awhile now. CCP needs to address this basic need first and foremost, which will probably end up loosening the pressure valve in Empire at this time, whereas people are looking for any and every way they can PvP with others in Empire because low sec has fallen so short of the mark for the past year or so. For me it's either A) CCP keeps fighting back against continued escalation in Empire (via security buffs, etc., more carrots for carebears, etc.) BANDAID FIX OR B) CCP fixes low sec for once to give all these people something more entertaining to do than itch for any PvP they can get their hands on in Empire, PREFERRED {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:45:00 - [92] Edited by: FunzzeR on 08/01/2010 18:45:14 Originally by: Mendolus I think I am like most people, tired of CCP hitting everything that is fun about the game with a big bat just because people abuse a good thing. If people had more self control, we would not so frequently suffer the trials and tribulations of CCP big ball-peen hammer. Unfortunately, most MMOs I've seen are like this, the devs let things get so bad that half the subscribers are lighting torches and pitchforks, and then they hit the problem with the full monty. Perhaps the best solution is for the devs to provide more solutions that put the power in the hands of the players rather than place absurd restrictions eliminate the activity all together. tl;dr: make EvE more of a sandbox EDIT Page 4 snipe PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Yalalala	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:48:00 - [93] Originally by: Spectre3353 Originally by: Yalalala Who is actually winning? What's the scores? Looks like Hydra Reloaded so far: http://hulkageddon2.griefwatch.net/?p=ranking Ironic considering Garmon put up the biggest chunk of money towards the grand prize. Nah that ranking is griefwatch's silly points scheme which takes into account various things. The real competition is just #exhumers killed, which I can't find on the site.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:54:00 - [94] Originally by: FunzzeR Edited by: FunzzeR on 08/01/2010 18:45:14 Originally by: Mendolus I think I am like most people, tired of CCP hitting everything that is fun about the game with a big bat just because people abuse a good thing. If people had more self control, we would not so frequently suffer the trials and tribulations of CCP big ball-peen hammer. Unfortunately, most MMOs I've seen are like this, the devs let things get so bad that half the subscribers are lighting torches and pitchforks, and then they hit the problem with the full monty. Perhaps the best solution is for the devs to provide more solutions that put the power in the hands of the players rather than place absurd restrictions eliminate the activity all together. tl;dr: make EvE more of a sandbox EDIT Page 4 snipe Yes, I mean I am all for greater freedoms, BUT here's the problem, it is a matter of principle, we already have 0.0 where there is 100% player driven content, and we have low security where it is kind of marginally player driven, since there's nothing really amazing to control or lord and squabble over, and then we have Empire which is supposed to fill the developer driven content, if we break the mold in Empire completely and make it more player driven, then we lose the great dichotomy, dynamic, and diversity we have in this game, which is kind of the whole point if you ask me. So while I agree that we should certainly not restrict players MORE than they already are in Empire in principle, I see no other alternatives, because unless we do not want to preserve the diversity and richness of the content in the game, that is the only choice we DO have in Empire as the main aspect of developer driven content in the game, which fills a niche spot for many subscribers who would not otherwise play this game without it. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Imagonnawhupya	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:54:00 - [95] Originally by: Yalalala Nah that ranking is griefwatch's silly points scheme which takes into account various things. The real competition is just #exhumers killed, which I can't find on the site. I honesty don't care much about who killed how many, I just like seeing the total go up and up and up and up and up. This could be partly due to the fact that I havn't killed jack so far, not for lack of trying tho.
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:55:00 - [96] Originally by: FunzzeR EDIT Page 4 snipe You can't edit in snipes you fishwife.
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.08 18:57:00 - [97] Originally by: Mendolus B) CCP fixes low sec for once to give all these people something more entertaining to do than itch for any PvP they can get their hands on in Empire, PREFERRED Perhaps we are on the same page then, I remember the days when low sec was actually populated with people both looking for a fight and otherwise. Apart from HICs and the Scanning changes most of the changes that occurred has actually made low sec safer i.e warp to zero. This tells me that most of issue may rest in empire. Back before the lp stores and Marauders the income associated with missions were much lower thus more people tended to venture into low sec/0.0. Missions used to take much longer to complete, I remember a thread make by Tiller bragging about mission times that are routinely considered the average now for any well fit CNR or Marauder. Since then I imagine cheap CNRs and Marauders have made missions faster and too easy. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:02:00 - [98] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Originally by: FunzzeR EDIT Page 4 snipe You can't edit in snipes you fishwife. U Mad? PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:04:00 - [99] Originally by: FunzzeR Since then I imagine cheap CNRs and Marauders have made missions faster and too easy. Believe it or not, it appears (to me) that the missile nerf is what did it. Previously, cruise missiles were fine at missioning, without a painter (it helped, but it wasn't mandatory), and without rigors. When they nerfed missiles, the community found a way around the nerf... that was significantly better than it had been previously. I mean, we still see suggestions for CCC ravens, but it's getting increasingly uncommon as people come to understand that Raven = Rigors. Of course, it wasn't very long before everyone was giving up huge amounts of tank for more gank.... and thus the era of "cram as much DPS into your ship as possible without warping out" was born. Things like Eve-Survival help, of course (since it lets even someone that's never run the mission know what the triggers are), but I think people fundamentally fit their ships differently now. As a case in point, you can make a Raven (not CNR) finish missions within a couple minutes of the 'uber' mission runners - which would firmly put the Raven into the what the hell category of olde. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:07:00 - [100] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: FunzzeR Since then I imagine cheap CNRs and Marauders have made missions faster and too easy. Believe it or not, it appears (to me) that the missile nerf is what did it. Previously, cruise missiles were fine at missioning, without a painter (it helped, but it wasn't mandatory), and without rigors. When they nerfed missiles, the community found a way around the nerf... that was significantly better than it had been previously. I mean, we still see suggestions for CCC ravens, but it's getting increasingly uncommon as people come to understand that Raven = Rigors. Of course, it wasn't very long before everyone was giving up huge amounts of tank for more gank.... and thus the era of "cram as much DPS into your ship as possible without warping out" was born. Things like Eve-Survival help, of course (since it lets even someone that's never run the mission know what the triggers are), but I think people fundamentally fit their ships differently now. As a case in point, you can make a Raven (not CNR) finish missions within a couple minutes of the 'uber' mission runners - which would firmly put the Raven into the what the hell category of olde. -Liang Thats probably it, perhaps its difficulty that need to be hiked then. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:08:00 - [101] Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 19:11:19 Originally by: FunzzeR Originally by: Mendolus B) CCP fixes low sec for once to give all these people something more entertaining to do than itch for any PvP they can get their hands on in Empire, PREFERRED Perhaps we are on the same page then, I remember the days when low sec was actually populated with people both looking for a fight and otherwise. Apart from HICs and the Scanning changes most of the changes that occurred has actually made low sec safer i.e warp to zero. This tells me that most of issue may rest in empire. Back before the lp stores and Marauders the income associated with missions were much lower thus more people tended to venture into low sec/0.0. Missions used to take much longer to complete, I remember a thread make by Tiller bragging about mission times that are routinely considered the average now for any well fit CNR or Marauder. Since then I imagine cheap CNRs and Marauders have made missions faster and too easy. Yep, pretty much. When I started shortly after Trinity low security space was the only place to earn your wings and was still chop full of reputable and successful pirates who earned their wages by snagging juicy targets while typically leaving the rest alone. There was still this notion that you could run out to low sec and learn about the REAL game, and truly become a part of the EVE community. Now it is either Empire or 0.0 and we all know Empire is not conducive to turning newbies into veterans. Empire wars are just... infuriatingly boring, TBH. One group shows in a dozen battleships, the other group in two dozen fear docks for hours for no good reason. Both sling tirades of meaningless insults back and forth, and we all go home without ever actually having an iota of fun the entire time, asking ourselves, "I pay good money for this?" IMO fix low security, see what shakes loose, and THEN take a good look at the health of high security space and whether or not there is a good balance there both for carebears and scarebears alike. CCP has fixed 0.0 with the new sovereignty mechanic, but whether that holds to be true over the long haul remains to be seen, as there seem to be some real issues with lag interfering with the new mechanic. Now it is time for low security space to get the same TLC. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Vito Parabellum Fivrelde Corp	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:19:00 - [102] Yesterday I had an encounter and chat with a serial ganker. He did thusly: Buy typhoon, fit smartbombs, wcs, inertias. Insta undock from station at different ranges, from there warp to the cloaked prowler behind a macinaw (or several) in a belt, blow mackinaw up, die, dock, wait 15, goto 10. As insurance payout is about 70M and the ship itself is 50 and insurance about 20, its just the t1 fitting he pays for to blow up each time. He said he went ahead about 3M maybe per mackinaw killed depending on how many miners it dropped. Now, each mackinaw costs around 120M. So to incur a 120M ISK hit on a victim it cost him... -3M. Can anyone with a straight face tell me this is balanced? (I bet there is!) ------ We live in an expanding universe. All of it is trying to get away from Chuck Norris.
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:29:00 - [103] Originally by: Vito Parabellum Yesterday I had an encounter and chat with a serial ganker. He did thusly: Buy typhoon, fit smartbombs, wcs, inertias. Insta undock from station at different ranges, from there warp to the cloaked prowler behind a macinaw (or several) in a belt, blow mackinaw up, die, dock, wait 15, goto 10. As insurance payout is about 70M and the ship itself is 50 and insurance about 20, its just the t1 fitting he pays for to blow up each time. He said he went ahead about 3M maybe per mackinaw killed depending on how many miners it dropped. Now, each mackinaw costs around 120M. So to incur a 120M ISK hit on a victim it cost him... -3M. Can anyone with a straight face tell me this is balanced? (I bet there is!) People regularly undock with Paladins, Golems, and CNRs and regularly make 40-60 mil isk per hour risk free. Can anyone with a straight face tell me this is balanced (I bet there is!) Miners being ganked is only a symptom of a much larger problem of too many people staying in empire and making equal or more isk than 0.0 or low sec risk free. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:30:00 - [104] Originally by: Vito Parabellum Yesterday I had an encounter and chat with a serial ganker. He did thusly: Buy typhoon, fit smartbombs, wcs, inertias. Insta undock from station at different ranges, from there warp to the cloaked prowler behind a macinaw (or several) in a belt, blow mackinaw up, die, dock, wait 15, goto 10. As insurance payout is about 70M and the ship itself is 50 and insurance about 20, its just the t1 fitting he pays for to blow up each time. He said he went ahead about 3M maybe per mackinaw killed depending on how many miners it dropped. Now, each mackinaw costs around 120M. So to incur a 120M ISK hit on a victim it cost him... -3M. Can anyone with a straight face tell me this is balanced? (I bet there is!) That is balanced.
Borun Tal Minmatar	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:32:00 - [105] I'm curious... for those taking part in Hulkageddon (and those that just enjoy ganking), how would a nerf to (let's say) insurance to eliminate any payout for gankers, suiciders, etc affect your gameplay?
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:33:00 - [106] Originally by: FunzzeR Originally by: Vito Parabellum Yesterday I had an encounter and chat with a serial ganker. He did thusly: Buy typhoon, fit smartbombs, wcs, inertias. Insta undock from station at different ranges, from there warp to the cloaked prowler behind a macinaw (or several) in a belt, blow mackinaw up, die, dock, wait 15, goto 10. As insurance payout is about 70M and the ship itself is 50 and insurance about 20, its just the t1 fitting he pays for to blow up each time. He said he went ahead about 3M maybe per mackinaw killed depending on how many miners it dropped. Now, each mackinaw costs around 120M. So to incur a 120M ISK hit on a victim it cost him... -3M. Can anyone with a straight face tell me this is balanced? (I bet there is!) People regularly undock with Paladins, Golems, and CNRs and regularly make 40-60 mil isk per hour risk free. Can anyone with a straight face tell me this is balanced (I bet there is!) Miners being ganked is only a symptom of a much larger problem of too many people staying in empire and making equal or more isk than 0.0 or low sec risk free. True true, but I would hate to see mining become a defunct profession because if all miners had to train to do L4s as efficiently as possible they'd never mine, now while the mineral yield from L4s is comparable to mining, this leaves an entire swath of the game uninhabited. Low security is already void of people trying to squeak out a living or live period (unless they're pirates) let alone having all empire mining dwindle down as well. Then you not only have a massive amount of previous low sec dwellers bored out of their minds, but a massive amount of miners who enjoy mining MORE having to fuddle their way through L4s content which they enjoy LESS, thus curbing enthusiasm for the game sharply. But yes, there are way too many people in Empire, and too much of a good thing IMO, the more bloated Empire gets, the worse off we all are, just like any other security level in the game, 0.0, low, wormhole, and empire should be spread out as evenly as possible to make the best use of the relatively finite core content of the game itself. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:38:00 - [107] Originally by: Borun Tal I'm curious... for those taking part in Hulkageddon (and those that just enjoy ganking), how would a nerf to (let's say) insurance to eliminate any payout for gankers, suiciders, etc affect your gameplay? It would effect solo gankers who use BS. Everyone else? Not so much.
Dariah Stardweller	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:40:00 - [108] Originally by: Ky'rena Have to say all the reading of the Hulkageddon Threads has had me roflmao so much, love it. Being that said, i am a carebear per say as i mine and mission primarily in the game. I have not insured a ship in a long time. Such a waste of ISK vs what one gets out of it. So let them nerf it. I would just laugh that much harder when the missioner loses a ship as stated earlier in this thread. And now, where do i find a gank squad running in Domain to join? Same here, carebear and I never insure PvE ships, I think it's completely pointless. As for CONCORDOKKEN insurance pay out, CCP has already said it will be dealt with, that was about 1.5 years ago though so I wouldn't worry too much about a short term nerf to insurance if I were a ganker
Larkonis TrassIer Neo Spartans Laconian Syndicate	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:45:00 - [109] Originally by: Dariah Stardweller Originally by: Ky'rena Have to say all the reading of the Hulkageddon Threads has had me roflmao so much, love it. Being that said, i am a carebear per say as i mine and mission primarily in the game. I have not insured a ship in a long time. Such a waste of ISK vs what one gets out of it. So let them nerf it. I would just laugh that much harder when the missioner loses a ship as stated earlier in this thread. And now, where do i find a gank squad running in Domain to join? Same here, carebear and I never insure PvE ships, I think it's completely pointless. As for CONCORDOKKEN insurance pay out, CCP has already said it will be dealt with, that was about 1.5 years ago though so I wouldn't worry too much about a short term nerf to insurance if I were a ganker Link please. As far as I'm aware when the last nerf was discussed CCP had the choice of nerfing payouts or increasing response times. They chose the latter. End of discussion TBH.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:47:00 - [110] Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 19:53:10 Originally by: Dariah Stardweller Originally by: Ky'rena Have to say all the reading of the Hulkageddon Threads has had me roflmao so much, love it. Being that said, i am a carebear per say as i mine and mission primarily in the game. I have not insured a ship in a long time. Such a waste of ISK vs what one gets out of it. So let them nerf it. I would just laugh that much harder when the missioner loses a ship as stated earlier in this thread. And now, where do i find a gank squad running in Domain to join? Same here, carebear and I never insure PvE ships, I think it's completely pointless. As for CONCORDOKKEN insurance pay out, CCP has already said it will be dealt with, that was about 1.5 years ago though so I wouldn't worry too much about a short term nerf to insurance if I were a ganker I think their hands have been tied TBH, so long as low security sucks balls they cannot touch PvP in Empire with a ten foot stick, and they've dared to do so twice now in the past two years, to try and hint to PvPers to go a bit easier on Empire space, but it has not succeeded at all since there's nothing to send them back to low security still. IMO security buff was a warning, gate/sentry buff was a threat, so the only step CCP has left is a nerf on par with the nano or sovereign mechanic nerf (if you can call it a nerf) to curb various behaviors that CCP would prefer not dominate the landscape of the game within its various tier of security whether individually pertinent or universally applicable. Basic idea is CCP seems to actually try now and then to NOT hit stuff with the nerf bat, but it seems the players will not listen until given no choice. I would suspect the most extreme step would be the insurance option, which I do not agree with myself, seems like it would hurt the richness of the game, but that's probably what would happen if something did occur. CCP has a history of smashing problems headlong after they've let them simmer so long they boil over which could either be chalked up to caution being the better part of valor or just simple procrastination. But yea I mean, like Lark said, the response time dynamic was their attempt at a solution, and it does pretty well by itself thus far, as you can see suicide gangs lurking around all the 0.5/0.6 systems between major trade hubs like hyenas huddled in a grassy knoll waiting on prey to wander by, but are almost non existent in systems 0.7 or higher in general. TBH it almost seems to me like CCP is trying to keep the balloon inflated at this point, as they have had a fairly enormous influx of new subs in the past twelve months or so. We went from peaks of around 30k to 60k within twelve months it seemed, and I think CCP at this point is playing damage control to prevent the air from letting out and losing all this forward momentum the game has at the moment. The problem is that with momentum comes greater risk of being derailed from the sheer force of forward progress. As CCP holds on for the ride just like us, it becomes less clear whether or not the players will derail the progress we have made or if CCPs relatively slow pace on development will (considering Ambulation is what... twelve months late already?) {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Vito Parabellum Fivrelde Corp	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:50:00 - [111] Originally by: Helicity Boson That is balanced. ------ We live in an expanding universe. All of it is trying to get away from Chuck Norris.
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:51:00 - [112] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Originally by: Dariah Stardweller Originally by: Ky'rena Have to say all the reading of the Hulkageddon Threads has had me roflmao so much, love it. Being that said, i am a carebear per say as i mine and mission primarily in the game. I have not insured a ship in a long time. Such a waste of ISK vs what one gets out of it. So let them nerf it. I would just laugh that much harder when the missioner loses a ship as stated earlier in this thread. And now, where do i find a gank squad running in Domain to join? Same here, carebear and I never insure PvE ships, I think it's completely pointless. As for CONCORDOKKEN insurance pay out, CCP has already said it will be dealt with, that was about 1.5 years ago though so I wouldn't worry too much about a short term nerf to insurance if I were a ganker Link please. As far as I'm aware when the last nerf was discussed CCP had the choice of nerfing payouts or increasing response times. They chose the latter. End of discussion TBH. Hes probably refering to this ancient dev blog Concord Dev Blog PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Dariah Stardweller	Posted - 2010.01.08 19:58:00 - [113] Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Link please. As far as I'm aware when the last nerf was discussed CCP had the choice of nerfing payouts or increasing response times. They chose the latter. End of discussion TBH. Read it somewhere in CSM-CCP meeting report I think. Was some talk about 'fixing' insurance for T2 ships too I think. That would be lawlz, insurance ner***e for gankers and insurance buffz for Hulk pilots.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 20:10:00 - [114] Originally by: Dariah Stardweller Originally by: Larkonis TrassIer Link please. As far as I'm aware when the last nerf was discussed CCP had the choice of nerfing payouts or increasing response times. They chose the latter. End of discussion TBH. Read it somewhere in CSM-CCP meeting report I think. Was some talk about 'fixing' insurance for T2 ships too I think. That would be lawlz, insurance ner**e for gankers and insurance buffz for Hulk pilots. I'm kinda mixed boat on T2 insurance... I'm not sure you can really place a finite value on a T2 boat as it's somewhat more player driven in a sense. I think things are just right as they are in that regard, I would hate to see T2 ships in general become the FOTM and see T1 become obsolete, which is what I think would happen if T2 had insurance. I think THAT would be the bigger problem itself, with T2 insurance, TBH. You also have to consider the salvage question, as T2 frequently yields salvage that is worth 20x what a T1 ship would yield in the best case scenario, so there is a bit of a lingering question there on what's what... I mean could you insure your own T2 ship, blow it up, salvage it, and possibly make out with not only more than the ship cost on the open market but then some? This kind of thing <<< should be reserved for production itself and not the open market IMO. If players could potentially corner the open market itself via ship insurance and salvage alone, I think that might make for a fairly sour game mechanic. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}*
Yalalala	Posted - 2010.01.08 20:11:00 - [115] Originally by: Vito Parabellum Can anyone with a straight face tell me this is balanced? (I bet there is!) I do this and the rebuttal is easy: you don't say a single thing about sec status. To do that you have to go -10 and then the character is otherwise worthless in empire.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 20:14:00 - [116] Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 20:15:05 Originally by: Yalalala Originally by: Vito Parabellum Can anyone with a straight face tell me this is balanced? (I bet there is!) I do this and the rebuttal is easy: you don't say a single thing about sec status. To do that you have to go -10 and then the character is otherwise worthless in empire. Yes, but that is a play style choice, you cannot change the net value difference between the assets Vito is referring to, there is an obvious difference. Whether or not those are ALL the factors that come into play is a different matter, but -10.0 only factors in for those who give a rip about sec status, and is thus not a universal factor. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.08 20:18:00 - [117] Edited by: Liang Nuren on 08/01/2010 20:20:12 Originally by: Mendolus IMO security buff was a warning, gate/sentry buff was a threat, so the only step CCP has left is a nerf on par with the nano or sovereign mechanic nerf (if you can call it a nerf) to curb various behaviors that ~~CCP~~ I would prefer not dominate the landscape of the game within its various tier of security whether individually pertinent or universally applicable. FTFY. CCP has repeatedly stated that this is a PVP game that is meant to be cold and dark. CCP has repeatedly stated that Concord is a response force not a protection force. Simply put: you're projecting your desires onto CCP. Now don't get me wrong... the only thing that CCP has (theoretically) done to buff lowsec was add the FW.... but from my experience it was a huge nerf to lowsec PVP. -Liang Ed: Also, remember that I in principle agree that lowsec has very little to offer to carebears and pirates. Thus I think we're starting to see the old denizens of lowsec move to highsec and 'grief' people. Notably, I am in highsec after 3 years of being -10. -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Yalalala	Posted - 2010.01.08 20:20:00 - [118] Originally by: Mendolus Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 20:15:05 Originally by: Yalalala Originally by: Vito Parabellum Can anyone with a straight face tell me this is balanced? (I bet there is!) I do this and the rebuttal is easy: you don't say a single thing about sec status. To do that you have to go -10 and then the character is otherwise worthless in empire. Yes, but that is a play style choice, you cannot change the net value difference between the assets Vito is referring to, there is an obvious difference. Whether or not those are ALL the factors that come into play is a different matter, but -10.0 only factors in for those who give a rip about sec status, and is thus not a universal factor. The fact that a -10 character (or the character slot) is useless in empire outside of ganking is just as universal as the isk values. Yes, some people do it anyway, but Vito still ignored this large downside in his post.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 20:23:00 - [119] Originally by: Yalalala Originally by: Mendolus Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 20:15:05 Originally by: Yalalala Originally by: Vito Parabellum Can anyone with a straight face tell me this is balanced? (I bet there is!) I do this and the rebuttal is easy: you don't say a single thing about sec status. To do that you have to go -10 and then the character is otherwise worthless in empire. Yes, but that is a play style choice, you cannot change the net value difference between the assets Vito is referring to, there is an obvious difference. Whether or not those are ALL the factors that come into play is a different matter, but -10.0 only factors in for those who give a rip about sec status, and is thus not a universal factor. The fact that a -10 character (or the character slot) is useless in empire outside of ganking is just as universal as the isk values. Yes, some people do it anyway, but Vito still ignored this large downside in his post. It was my understanding most folks run L4s in low or rat in 0.0 if they pirate or gank in general, to avoid being without a source of income at any given time. Would seem to make more sense that -10.0 is bad for the ganking itself, and not much else, as a neutral alt to carebear with is much more advantageous than constantly seesawing between -5.0 or worse and 0.0 or better. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 20:30:00 - [120] Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 20:33:47 Originally by: Liang Nuren Edited by: Liang Nuren on 08/01/2010 20:20:12 Originally by: Mendolus IMO security buff was a warning, gate/sentry buff was a threat, so the only step CCP has left is a nerf on par with the nano or sovereign mechanic nerf (if you can call it a nerf) to curb various behaviors that ~~CCP~~ I would prefer not dominate the landscape of the game within its various tier of security whether individually pertinent or universally applicable. FTFY. CCP has repeatedly stated that this is a PVP game that is meant to be cold and dark. CCP has repeatedly stated that Concord is a response force not a protection force. Simply put: you're projecting your desires onto CCP. Now don't get me wrong... the only thing that CCP has (theoretically) done to buff lowsec was add the FW.... but from my experience it was a huge nerf to lowsec PVP. -Liang Ed: Also, remember that I in principle agree that lowsec has very little to offer to carebears and pirates. Thus I think we're starting to see the old denizens of lowsec move to highsec and 'grief' people. Notably, I am in highsec after 3 years of being -10. Yes, you're right, but IMO cold and dark does not mean dull and lifeless in a game, and that's the problem. CCP has to keep both the predator and the prey entertained. If it were all predators, we'd quickly run out of ships to pop cuz no one would have a dime to their name. We cannot all run out every night and fight tooth and nail with every other player in the game. The best mix that would be healthiest for the game is you have some people PVP most of the time and carebear little, some who PvP and carebear in some way equally, and those who do carebear almost exclusively. So far it seems like lately it's been panning out to be in favor of only the first two and not the latter, which is bad for business IMO, cuz those people won't stick around long if they have entertainment value forced down their throat. EVE should not mimic real life to a such a degree that it is not only cold and dark but truly unforgiving in the sense that, we should be having fun when we lose our ships, unlike in real life when you lose something, it's not all that fun. To me, if I were a dedicated miner, and I could not undock without knowing that I would lose twelve hours worth of mining after only getting two done, I would not pay $15/mo for the service anymore. Period. Thankfully it is not this way, but it did get this way with nano fits, you could not undock without one, unless you wanted to take hits and never deal them. I still remember being instructed by a veteran on how to burst my MWD on ANY ship (as it was expected you had one no matter what) to catch an Interceptor on his slowest orbital approach to my ship in order to snag him with a webber and pop him. I still tell my own incoming members if they are relatively fresh, that this trick is still out there, but not as critical as it once was. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.08 20:30:00 - [121] Originally by: Mendolus It was my understanding most folks run L4s in low or rat in 0.0 if they pirate or gank in general, to avoid being without a source of income at any given time. Would seem to make more sense that -10.0 is bad for the ganking itself, and not much else, as a neutral alt to carebear with is much more advantageous than constantly seesawing between -5.0 or worse and 0.0 or better. I can't speak for everyone, but I tend to use alts in various 0.0 alliances and highsec L4s for my income. Many of my corpmates do industry on alts (you might be surprised how effective they are at industry...) and play the market. One of them even runs a carebear corp on an alt that he skims the taxes on... -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.08 20:34:00 - [122] Originally by: Mendolus Thankfully it is not this way, but it did get this way with nano fits, you could not undock without one, unless you wanted to take hits and never deal them. This is just you whining and being too lazy to fit a counter or use your brain. There were plenty of ways of dealing with nano fits. Yes, there were some nano fits that were overboard, but by and large a regular nano fit could easily be disposed of. Sadly, this seems to be reminiscent of the rest of your posting - whining about things that you don't truly understand... and greatly exaggerating the kernel of truth that does exist. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.08 20:34:00 - [123] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Mendolus It was my understanding most folks run L4s in low or rat in 0.0 if they pirate or gank in general, to avoid being without a source of income at any given time. Would seem to make more sense that -10.0 is bad for the ganking itself, and not much else, as a neutral alt to carebear with is much more advantageous than constantly seesawing between -5.0 or worse and 0.0 or better. I can't speak for everyone, but I tend to use alts in various 0.0 alliances and highsec L4s for my income. Many of my corpmates do industry on alts (you might be surprised how effective they are at industry...) and play the market. One of them even runs a carebear corp on an alt that he skims the taxes on... -Liang Yup I use alts in high sec to make isk, Insurance arbitrage ftw. And everyone else I know does too. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 20:36:00 - [124] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Mendolus It was my understanding most folks run L4s in low or rat in 0.0 if they pirate or gank in general, to avoid being without a source of income at any given time. Would seem to make more sense that -10.0 is bad for the ganking itself, and not much else, as a neutral alt to carebear with is much more advantageous than constantly seesawing between -5.0 or worse and 0.0 or better. I can't speak for everyone, but I tend to use alts in various 0.0 alliances and highsec L4s for my income. Many of my corpmates do industry on alts (you might be surprised how effective they are at industry...) and play the market. One of them even runs a carebear corp on an alt that he skims the taxes on... -Liang Ah yea, that's what I was thinking is the most prevalent behavior, as it would be more work to try and seesaw security status than to just maintain a carebear alt, so -10.0 is only a huge factor if you do not have the financial means or time required to fund a second account. I mean it is a factor for a good portion of people even still I am certain, but I do not think it is so critical that it plays directly into the math of who wins and loses in a suicide gank situation between a 2-3mil Dessie and a 120mil Hulk, lol. Whether it did or not, it certainly doesn't overcome the vast difference in wealth lost to each party. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 20:42:00 - [125] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Mendolus Thankfully it is not this way, but it did get this way with nano fits, you could not undock without one, unless you wanted to take hits and never deal them. This is just you whining and being too lazy to fit a counter or use your brain. There were plenty of ways of dealing with nano fits. Yes, there were some nano fits that were overboard, but by and large a regular nano fit could easily be disposed of. Sadly, this seems to be reminiscent of the rest of your posting - whining about things that you don't truly understand... and greatly exaggerating the kernel of truth that does exist. -Liang Evidently you and CCP disagree on this. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.08 20:59:00 - [126] Originally by: Mendolus Ah yea, that's what I was thinking is the most prevalent behavior, as it would be more work to try and seesaw security status than to just maintain a carebear alt, so -10.0 is only a huge factor if you do not have the financial means or time required to fund a second account. It is a tremendous amount of work to try to keep your sec status up and still have time for actual PVP. Additionally, it should be remembered that there are no advantages to being -10 outside of epeen. In fact, I encourage people not to go -10 unless they have an alt - because being barred from highsec is a ridiculous penalty that is seemingly shrugged away by so many carebears. Quote: Evidently you and CCP disagree on this. No, we only disagreed by degree. I agreed there should be a nano nerf - just not the particular one that was implemented. If you had read closer, you'd see that I was calling you on your "Oh don't bother undocking without nano because you won't be able to do anything at all". Yes, nano was a problem. There is a kernel of truth to what you said - BUT IT WAS NOT SUCH A PROBLEM AS YOU REPRESENT IT TO HAVE BEEN. You dramatically exaggerated - as you are with this issue (and every other issue I've seen you post negatively about). -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 21:06:00 - [127] Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 21:07:14 Originally by: Liang Nuren No, we only disagreed by degree. I agreed there should be a nano nerf - just not the particular one that was implemented. If you had read closer, you'd see that I was calling you on your "Oh don't bother undocking without nano because you won't be able to do anything at all". Yes, nano was a problem. There is a kernel of truth to what you said - BUT IT WAS NOT SUCH A PROBLEM AS YOU REPRESENT IT TO HAVE BEEN. You dramatically exaggerated - as you are with this issue (and every other issue I've seen you post negatively about). -Liang I know what I saw, and for the first six months I played the game, every war or low security adventure I had, there was always at least one nano fit ship zipping about throwing a monkey wrench in our gang if we did not have one of our own too. This was the problem. Just like Falcons, if your gang did not have nano fit, you might as well close up shop, in the sense that, you were going to be at a general disadvantage in a majority of encounters. I did not clarify, and this was my fault, but I was not talking about blobs, battleship gangs, or the like, I was talking solely about small to medium sized combat gangs, the likes of which Falcons also played a key role in, when it came to nerfs to game mechanic. Obviously a gang of a handful of Vagabonds were not going to do jack to a couple battleships sitting on a gate in low sec unless the battleships fired first, that's a given, I meant "Do not bother undocking" in the sense of small to medium class warfare with mixed ship types. Just as the Falcon dominated the landscape of that niche in combat, so did the nano mechanic. Yes, the nano nerf was a bit harsh, that's why I would hate to see what CCP would do if they had to continue to nerf PvP in Empire to prevent it from boiling over as low security continues to drain out. There's never enough time in the word to explain all of each other's opinions in one sitting, so you work hard to not assume things about me, and I'll work hard to not assume things about you, and we'll both be better off for it. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Swalesey Prosperity Through Violence	Posted - 2010.01.08 21:14:00 - [128] Originally by: Vito Parabellum Yesterday I had an encounter and chat with a serial ganker. He did thusly: Buy typhoon, fit smartbombs, wcs, inertias. Insta undock from station at different ranges, from there warp to the cloaked prowler behind a macinaw (or several) in a belt, blow mackinaw up, die, dock, wait 15, goto 10. As insurance payout is about 70M and the ship itself is 50 and insurance about 20, its just the t1 fitting he pays for to blow up each time. He said he went ahead about 3M maybe per mackinaw killed depending on how many miners it dropped. Now, each mackinaw costs around 120M. So to incur a 120M ISK hit on a victim it cost him... -3M. Can anyone with a straight face tell me this is balanced? (I bet there is!) Your all forgetting one important point. a mackinaw is a tech II ship. you don't get full insurance on tech II ships. You do on tech I ships though be in mining barge or battleships. He doesn't suicide gank in a marauder so gets full insurance. you don't like the risk get a covetor, you get full insurance to. I don't hear any gankers saying there ****ed they lose so much ganking people in there hacs or af. flying tII poses a greater isk loss than flying tI don't like it, don't fly it. You've assumed you ahve the right to fly TII ships for no loss. this is simply not true.
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.08 21:21:00 - [129] Originally by: Mendolus I know what I saw, and for the first six months I played the game, every war or low security adventure I had, there was always at least one nano fit ship zipping about throwing a monkey wrench in our gang if we did not have one of our own too. You fail to realize the point: generic nano fit ships were hardly a threat. Yes, they could mitigate damage and retreat on occassion (though not always) - but generic nano fit ships had plenty of counters. It wasn't until you started throwing gang bonuses, deadspace MWDs, snake sets, boosters, etc all into the mix that things became close to something called 'unmanageable'. And seeing as how I actually played Eve and lived in lowsec/0.0 from throughout the entire nano age, I can tell you authoritatively (as opposed to someone whining "But every time I went out...") that unmanageable nano ships were very very much the exception instead of the rule. If you saw them every time you went out, chances are that what you saw was run of the mill average nanoships... which were not problematic at all. Quote: I meant "Do not bother undocking" in the sense of small to medium class warfare with mixed ship types. Again, I've been living out there in the wilds since I started playing Eve - and probably 90% of my kills (even on my alts) are in gangs from 2-6 people. And you know what? We undocked without nano. And we undocked without falcons. And you know what? We did fine. So what's the problem? YOU. Quote: There's never enough time in the word to explain all of each other's opinions in one sitting, so you work hard to not assume things about me, and I'll work hard to not assume things about you, and we'll both be better off for it. I'm not 'assuming' things about you. You're directly telling me. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 21:35:00 - [130] Edited by: Mendolus on 08/01/2010 21:35:47 Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Mendolus I know what I saw, and for the first six months I played the game, every war or low security adventure I had, there was always at least one nano fit ship zipping about throwing a monkey wrench in our gang if we did not have one of our own too. You fail to realize the point: generic nano fit ships were hardly a threat. Yes, they could mitigate damage and retreat on occassion (though not always) - but generic nano fit ships had plenty of counters. It wasn't until you started throwing gang bonuses, deadspace MWDs, snake sets, boosters, etc all into the mix that things became close to something called 'unmanageable'. And seeing as how I actually played Eve and lived in lowsec/0.0 from throughout the entire nano age, I can tell you authoritatively (as opposed to someone whining "But every time I went out...") that unmanageable nano ships were very very much the exception instead of the rule. If you saw them every time you went out, chances are that what you saw was run of the mill average nanoships... which were not problematic at all. Quote: I meant "Do not bother undocking" in the sense of small to medium class warfare with mixed ship types. Again, I've been living out there in the wilds since I started playing Eve - and probably 90% of my kills (even on my alts) are in gangs from 2-6 people. And you know what? We undocked without nano. And we undocked without falcons. And you know what? We did fine. So what's the problem? YOU. Quote: There's never enough time in the word to explain all of each other's opinions in one sitting, so you work hard to not assume things about me, and I'll work hard to not assume things about you, and we'll both be better off for it. I'm not 'assuming' things about you. You're directly telling me. -Liang So, basically you are telling me that my personal experiences are wrong, because your personal experiences were right? Classic. Were you a snake oil salesman in a past life? So, then pray tell, if nano wasn't a problem, why did CCP nerf it? Go on, tell us how you're so perfect and flawless in everything you do, it amuses me. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
IIIAsharakIII Solstice Systems Development Concourse Distant Drums	Posted - 2010.01.08 21:36:00 - [131] I think the power to change these "problems" people have with griefers lies more with themselves than with CCP. I understand as such that people think the game mechanics are the problem, but remember, those mechanics are limited to only one sector of the game: High security space. While the game mechanics - in theory - are designed to limit open combat in High security, there are loopholes in the mechanics which people have been able to exploit (not technical, only definitive). This is similar to actual law in the sense that sometimes laws do not work out as they were intended. Sometimes they are amended, sometimes they are left alone. For example, you decide to file a lawsuit against your boss for not paying you. During the process, you find out that the same law that allows you to sue him, also allows him to sue you for his wasted time and finances. While you win the suit for your pay, his counter lawsuit far exceeds what you were demanding, and you end up owing your boss money. Now, of course, the difference here is that 1. This isn't Law School Online, its Eve Online. And 2. The game mechanics which force you to fight with one hand behind your back are only located in high sec space. That being said, you'll never get rid of griefers. However, you can fight them (or make friends you enjoy fighting to fight them)in low sec or 0.0 space. I'm not even going to go into detail about how much more enjoyable having your own station in low sec space is compared to squabbling over pebbles and mission rats (whos bounties are -%50 of their non mission counterparts). In addition, you'll find that griefers have less and less of an advantage against you the deeper into uncontrolled territory you go. You might think otherwise, but if you do you should visit 0.0 and enlighten yourself. 0.0 space is the great equalizer, where griefers become just as much prey to other "entities" as you are to them. This game has always been geared into pushing players into low sec and 0.0. Maybe these loopholes in the game mechanics which frustrate miners so much is really just a hint that maybe its time to find those greener pastures. I'd write more but I've written too much already.
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.08 21:53:00 - [132] Originally by: Mendolus So, basically you are telling me that my personal experiences are wrong, because your personal experiences were right? Classic. Were you a snake oil salesman in a past life? So, then pray tell, if nano wasn't a problem, why did CCP nerf it? Go on, tell us how you're so perfect and flawless in everything you do, it amuses me. But here's the simple facts: - You said "every time I went out", which has a strong implication that you went out from where you normally lived. You saw "nano ships zooming everywhere" so you say nobody could even undock lest they "be hit and be unable to hit back". - I lived there every day. I saw generic nano ships "zooming about" at quite reasonable speeds and the exceptionally rare ship that truly "broke" the game. Thus, I can take what I saw every day and compare to what you saw occasionally and quite easily conclude that either you're compulsively exaggerating or simply ignorant to the way the game actually works. You pick. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 22:02:00 - [133] Originally by: Liang Nuren Originally by: Mendolus So, basically you are telling me that my personal experiences are wrong, because your personal experiences were right? Classic. Were you a snake oil salesman in a past life? So, then pray tell, if nano wasn't a problem, why did CCP nerf it? Go on, tell us how you're so perfect and flawless in everything you do, it amuses me. But here's the simple facts: - You said "every time I went out", which has a strong implication that you went out from where you normally lived. You saw "nano ships zooming everywhere" so you say nobody could even undock lest they "be hit and be unable to hit back". - I lived there every day. I saw generic nano ships "zooming about" at quite reasonable speeds and the exceptionally rare ship that truly "broke" the game. Thus, I can take what I saw every day and compare to what you saw occasionally and quite easily conclude that either you're compulsively exaggerating or simply ignorant to the way the game actually works. You pick. -Liang I'll give you this, yes, using universal verbatim like every and always is not something I myself typically approve of, so okay, not every time, but the root of the problem is still there, and you have yet to explain why CCP would implement such a game changing nerf just to fix the few times you claim stragglers broke the game mechanic, esp. if it is as you say, and nano was not even a big deal and no one really minded it. I seem to remember it being a clear 50/50 split between people who hated everything nano and those that did not, and it seemed at the time that few if any people were comfortable with the nano nerf itself, and had hoped for something less smashy and more fixy. Where is all this hostility coming from, anyways, were you beaten as a small child? I am going to have to exit stage right on this, as you seem incapable of compromise, which is just as bad as what you accuse me of, which I have now compromised on. Sure, exaggeration, but the problem was still evident enough that CCP took a huge hammer to it, so whether I exaggerate matters less as whether it was historically accurate for me to claim that nano was a universal problem in the game, and CCP took the hammer to it because of that. You seem to understand the nuances of the game fine, but not the nuances of social strata and interaction. I think therein lies your real problem. Sometimes it is not what you say, but what you do not say. And other times it is a fun mix of both. You fail at it pretty hard either way. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Callduron	Posted - 2010.01.08 22:10:00 - [134] Edited by: Callduron on 08/01/2010 22:13:17 I sometimes mine while semi-afk and frankly I approve of events like this. Suicide ganking is pretty rare and I don't think the game should be 100% safe. If CCP wanted that they could just make other players impossible to attack, like WoW or something. Economically this is pure win for me. Anyone who talks to other people or reads the forums in Eve knew this was coming and will park up for a week. Thanks for killing my competitors guys! I've been suicide ganked about 3 times while afk autopiloting my trade routes. I like it that it's possible to attack others and I like it that I have to be a little smart and sometimes even a little lucky to make the ISK roll in. My losses when I was ganked are less than 1% of the money I've made semi-afk autopiloting with a trade cargo to sell. I look on it as a tax I pay to keep competition down. So I hope the system doesn't change. Oh one other thing - since I started 6 months ago I've been concorded about 4 times. Twice because I thought smart bombs were great and accidentally bombed someone else's drone and once when I thought I could shoot someone shooting my friend and it turned out I couldn't. That last time cost me a Drake which was a big deal to me at the time. So Lakonis is absolutely right, removing insurance if Concord kills you will really hurt newbies.
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.08 22:23:00 - [135] Originally by: Mendolus I'll give you this, yes, using universal verbatim like every and always is not something I myself typically approve of, so okay, not every time, but the root of the problem is still there, and you have yet to explain why CCP would implement such a game changing nerf just to fix the few times you claim stragglers broke the game mechanic, esp. if it is as you say, and nano was not even a big deal and no one really minded it. Concession accepted. And the reason that they nerfed it was because of three things: - There really were fits which broke the game (this was pretty obvious - the question was always what to do about it without breaking the game for everyone else). - The fact that missiles really were nearly without offense against nanoships. - People like you that whined about it in universal terms. The whining really showed in the way that they approached the nano nerf as well - because it broke more than it fixed. The reality of it was that they needed to nerf certain things and fix rockets+precision missiles. Quote: Where is all this hostility coming from, anyways, were you beaten as a small child? Two things. One, I cannot stand the ignorant blathering. Two...... just in case you missed it.... Quote: Where is all this hostility coming from, anyways, were you beaten as a small child? And again, just so you don't miss it... Quote: Where is all this hostility coming from, anyways, were you beaten as a small child? IT IS A NATURAL REACTION TO THE WAY YOU POST. Quote: Sure, exaggeration, but the problem was still evident enough that CCP took a huge hammer to it, so whether I exaggerate matters less as whether it was historically accurate for me to claim that nano was a universal problem in the game, and CCP took the hammer to it because of that. I guess the truth matters little to liars. Quote: You seem to understand the nuances of the game fine, but not the nuances of social strata and interaction. I think therein lies your real problem. Sometimes it is not what you say, but what you do not say. And other times it is a fun mix of both. I am well familiar with my posting style. People that have a clue tend to like it. Clueless people tend not to. Guess which side you fall on? Quote: You fail at it pretty hard either way. IRONY OVERLOAD DETECTED!! -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.08 22:30:00 - [136] Originally by: Liang Nuren ... Dance, puppet, dance. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Forum Reprentative	Posted - 2010.01.08 23:29:00 - [137] Edited by: Forum Reprentative on 08/01/2010 23:30:15 so, out of the 35K pilots that hang around High-sec every day to run their business, 2K miners are going to die this week.. so, what? people trade, manufacture, explore, run missions and many other activities. So, just because some miners, who nobody give a S***, die, are CCP going to take part? NO They can join a 0.0 alliance with their hulks, run Missions (which is far more profitable, less boring and even yield a great bunch of minerals) or mine in covetors which can be fully insured, are cheap and yield nearly the same as a Hulk. Changes? maybe make a T1 ice harvester so people have the choice to ice mining in an insured ship. Use insured T1 ships in high-sec, and T2 ships in 0.0 under alliance protection. You have the choices right there, CCP no need to do nothing.
Jhon Collish	Posted - 2010.01.08 23:34:00 - [138] Oh the drama lets cut our veins! for the record im a miner too, after surviving a couple suicide ganks i just parked my ship and went my way to do something else, end of story, not to hard if you are a "real" miner and not an "afk-zombie" miner, i find this event quite amusing
Harrigan VonStudly Imperium Signal Corps Underworld Excavators	Posted - 2010.01.08 23:38:00 - [139] Edited by: Harrigan VonStudly on 08/01/2010 23:42:59 Originally by: Mr Epeen Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly I hope CCP leaves their hands out of it. And the carebears should watch what they wish for. Many want insurance payout for concord kills to cease. What happens when Joe Cool mission runner targets a ninja or a miner targets back a non aggro irritant in his mining space and they accidently an offensive module? Joe Cool mish runner ain't gonna be so happy losing his pimped out mish boat with no payout at all. Don't lie carebears. You're all to friggin' cheap to not insure a ship. No matter how expensive over the payout it may be. Cheap skate bastards. How about a message from CCP to carebears. Learn something about pvp to protect yourself and HTFU. How long have you been playing this game? Seriously, that post is dumb. If carebears got what they wished for, they would have full insurance for there boats. Well let's all bow down to the peen that's been playing for eleventy!111 years. Obviously you misssed the point I was making because of the eye strain from trying to find your teeeneeepeen. But hey. Keep on keepin' on big bro. You're da bestest How much do you think Joe Cool mission runner actually gets back of the billion he spent pimping out the CNR he's using. And how much do you think the hulk miner gets back when he does whatever it was you were going on about above. The problem here is that people who are used to getting full payment for their gankboats, have it stuck in their head that it works like that for everybody. At least you seem too, or you wouldn't have posted such drivel. It certainly isn't going to affect the carebears much to change insurance so that concord kills don't pay out. It will only affect the gankers significantly. Although, I would suggest simply getting rid of insurance altogether. Supposed to be a cold, harsh universe. For everyone. Right now it's kind of harsh for mission runners and miners but that's it. The ganker tears would flow like a river if CCP ever got around to balancing the insurance mechanic. Or getting rid of it altogether. Mr Epeen Obviously you missed the point I was making. But that's to be expected from someone with eye strain from looking for their teeneepeen all the time. /emote bows to the master who's been playing for eleventy!111 years.
Ran Khanon Amarr The Phantom Acolytes	Posted - 2010.01.09 00:26:00 - [140] Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly It certainly isn't going to affect the carebears much to change insurance so that concord kills don't pay out. It will only affect the gankers significantly. I guess you have a point there. Substantially nerfing insurance payouts would even things out I guess. The gankers which would still go on killing sprees in highsec would be fewer but there will always be a very committed core of gankers anyway. Which is ok. If you want to nerf all insurance payouts, there is only one problem which would need to be addressed: New players should be able to loose some ships and not get disillusioned by 'major' losses early in the game. Solution? Make insurance actually realistic by making insurance costs scale with your character's likeliness to lose a ship and let insurance take actual prices of T2 and T3 ships into account. Say, after 10 ship losses in pvp, your insurance company kindly informs you that prices to insure that fine vessel you just purchased have become a little steeper .. That way also tech 2 and tech 3 ships could have reasonable refunds for losses provided you look after your ships. Once you get to be a professional ship loser (i.e. most pvp minded people playing this game for a long time,) insurance companies will ask a hefty premium to insure your ship, but by then you should be able to make plenty of isk and refund most of your losses yourself. It would need some proper balancing though, as in not to give people an extra reason to avoid pvp all together but it could solve a couple of issues: Insurance as of now isn't realistic as it doesn't take real value of very expensive ships into account Insurance as of now isn't realistic because it doesn't take 'likeliness to lose a ship' into account New players still wouldn't have to worry about heavy losses as they have a clean sheet and only have to pay a modest insurance fee. PvP'ers wouldn't have to be so scared to take out more expensive ships to battle as they can still get a better refund than the current T1 amount even if their fees are high. Please re-size your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2010.01.09 04:23:00 - [141] I seriously doubt there'd ever be a Jihad against mission runners. Too many piwates want to avoid ****ting where they eat. Maybe they'd do a 'shock and awe' campaign on a major hub for a day. They make a concerted effort, CCP would be forced to take notice because the backlash would be much greater than a handful of exploiting macro's.
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.01.09 07:31:00 - [142] Edited by: Herzog Wolfhammer on 09/01/2010 07:32:11 A lot of players are forced to admit that insurance payout for ships lost during criminal acts does not make sense. But removal of all insurance.... this could be hardest on noobs. Most experienced players get to a point where they forget to insure ships after a time because there is plenty of ISK to replace them and let's face it, when the modules cost 3-4 times more than the hull - the part that is insured - what difference does it make? If there are changes to insurance, I would hope that the noobs still get some insurance. But I wonder if insurance should be moved to something only a corporation could do. That is, just like in the real world, a corporation uses a trust to insure their fleets of cars or ships. Let corporations establish these trusts to cover losses and remove individual insurance to make things harsh on both experienced players who should know better and the gank players. CCP wants more people in corps, so moving insurance capability to corporations might help in that goal as well.
Junko Togawa Caldari	Posted - 2010.01.09 10:02:00 - [143] I have no complaint about insurance payouts for losses to other players, or NPC rats. But if your ship gets popped by CONCORD, you shouldn't get anything. Removing insurance entirely seems like overkill, though the idea of it being available to corporations only isn't a bad idea.
fuel2310	Posted - 2010.01.09 10:11:00 - [144] 500-1000 kills of exhummers that is like nothing compared to the number of miners playing this game! im a miner and proud of it! no suicide gank can keep me from minning my ore like always when you look at the entire game the chance for you to get ganked is way under 5 % that is nothing compared to the amount of isk you can make in matters of hours sure its sucks that ccp want to go after the 1 whit no defense BWTF let them come i would love to se a lot of suicide pilots get kicked bye concord:) just sad for all new players just started minning in retriewer or 1 of the other small hummers in worst case they stop playing if they lose a minning barge that early in game
guska Cryotank Gallente ZCMI Magnum Opus.	Posted - 2010.01.09 10:46:00 - [145] The only thing I expect to truly come out of this is...
Soliscout	Posted - 2010.01.09 10:49:00 - [146] Dont worry..I have a Catalyst BPO
Toshiro GreyHawk	Posted - 2010.01.09 13:07:00 - [147] Eh ... Sorry I couldn't be arsed to read all five pages of comments. So, just responding to the OP ... I've no idea if CCP will do anything. It's just to hard to say and I can't read their minds. They have done things in the past though. Response time was increased so that if you were in 1.0 or .9 - Concord might actually save you instead of just get revenge. So we'll just have to see. One thing though - was that Jihad Swarm - wasn't just an event - it was something that was on going over an extended period of time. If things calm down after the event - nothing may be done. Now - as to the insurance pay out - no - if Concord pops you for a violation it is ABSURD that you would get paid insurance. If you lose your pimped out mission ship through stupidity - then to bad. Of course ... if you've got a T2 ship ... then you can't really insure that anyway. Besides - most mission runners that I'm aware of do not insure their ships. If you are in High Sec running Missions - you shouldn't get enough ships killed to warrant insuring them. When I first started playing - I insured everything ... I insured my shuttles ... then I gradually realized (insuring the shuttles went first) that I was paying way more in insurance that I would if I just paid for the ships I lost. So - it probably won't make any difference to most mission runners. This isn't going to be a real deterrent to suicide ganking though, it just removes the absurdity of paying people for breaking the law. It removes the "punishment" of having your ship destroyed if you get paid insurance for it. In some cases - you can actually make a profit by having CONCORD destroy your ship as the insurance payment is greater than the value of the ship. For people who want to go sacrifice a destroyer to gank a Hulk ... not getting the insurance for the destroyer isn't going to keep them from doing it. The thing is - it might keep them from doing it as much. Eventually, even the cost of destroyers adds up if you lose enough of them. The other thing is security status hits. Right now ... in EVE (correct me if I'm wrong) ... you get one status hit for shooting a ship regardless of whether or not you destroy it. Then another if you pod the guy. In Planetside - you got escalating "grief" points every single time you hit a friendly with one of your rounds - and if you killed a whole bunch of people at once - you could get instant weapons lock from all the grief points ... (I was trying to take off a large cargo aircraft once to escape the fire from a tank when I backed into a base wall ... flipped my aircraft upside down right over the wall and down on top of a very crowded vehicle terminal ... those tankers must have laughed their asses off ...) So - the penalties could be adjusted - to reflect the severity of the crime. shrug But ... I suspect ... that they aren't going to do anything just because of one event - no matter how "successful" it is. If it carries on ... we'll see. But for now ... no. Orbiting vs. Kiting Faction Schools
Kiri Serrensun	Posted - 2010.01.09 14:06:00 - [148] Originally by: FunzzeR Thats probably it, perhaps its difficulty that need to be hiked then. Only better AI will do that--if you pile in more enemies, it increases tedium, not difficulty, as you just have more dumb bags of HP to beat on till they pop. Missions where you have to game the system to stop it being stupidly hard don't help--such as the Blockade or one mission where you can bounce off hostile BS and they won't attack you till you shoot or release drones.
Scrobes	Posted - 2010.01.09 15:19:00 - [149] Originally by: Toshiro GreyHawk In Planetside - Ahh.. you had to love the weird situations in that game! Linkage Linkage Btw, what you describe does sound hilarious. ;)
AeCha Anais	Posted - 2010.01.09 19:16:00 - [150] FYI, for the RP perspective: http://www.eveonline.com/ingameboard.asp?a=topic&threadID=1248017 Remember those who are claiming backstory reasons as to why ganking is so easy that you are on ships and killing ships with potentially thousands of non-immortal crew :) As for my OOC thoughts, I think insurance needs to be nerfed, that much is obvious even to folks like Helicity Boson (the guy behind hulkageddon II - based on comments he has made in the hulkageddon ii chatroom)... but I think Hulkageddon is a lot of lulz... simply because it having been on the login screen, dominating the forums, eve-radio and well everywhere there are still miners and gankers claiming to not know it is going on.
Cowardly Sniper	Posted - 2010.01.09 23:15:00 - [151]
Shawshanke	Posted - 2010.01.09 23:28:00 - [152] Edited by: Shawshanke on 09/01/2010 23:28:55 Hulkageddon crashed eve, it was just to much evil in 1 place at 1 time. Edit: page 6, i win eve again.
Zill The Scope	Posted - 2010.01.09 23:38:00 - [153] Edited by: Zill on 09/01/2010 23:39:09 Insurance needs to be removed, make gankers lose just as much if they want to kill ppl where there is no risk to themselves. It's Darkfall online mentality. No risks to themselves as long as they can gank. CCP will nerf highsec we know they will. Hell Jihad from GF was done with skill an really fun with it, an CCP trashed highsec cos of it. This **** is 10 times worse, what do you think they are gonna do now :)... an they are well aware of it. Take out all insurance so if one these "elite pvpers" trys to kill someone he dies too. Ganker to suffer instant -5 per kill an no insurance. EvE is meant to be about consequence.....Give them one.
Lithalnas Amarr Warsmiths Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.10 00:03:00 - [154] Originally by: Zill Edited by: Zill on 09/01/2010 23:39:09 Insurance needs to be removed, make gankers lose just as much if they want to kill ppl where there is no risk to themselves. It's Darkfall online mentality. No risks to themselves as long as they can gank. CCP will nerf highsec we know they will. Hell Jihad from GF was done with skill an really fun with it, an CCP trashed highsec cos of it. This **** is 10 times worse, what do you think they are gonna do now :)... an they are well aware of it. Take out all insurance so if one these "elite pvpers" trys to kill someone he dies too. Ganker to suffer instant -5 per kill an no insurance. EvE is meant to be about consequence.....Give them one. Hey look its Zill again. You are wrong and I can prove it: Your reference "Darkfall online" and make the connection that ganking is the bane that has killed that game. (1)Your are incorrect because Eve has always been relatively lawless and suicide ganking rampant. (2)Eve has also been in existence for many years all the way back to 2003, eve, and its suicide gankers predate Darkfall, I also think that Hulkageddon 1 predates Darkfall. (3)Eve online had its most recent max concurrent player count of 54k player online LAST WEEK, which means eve is most definitely dieing. -------------
Lana Torrin Minmatar Republic Military Skool	Posted - 2010.01.10 00:05:00 - [155] This thread is still going? WTF?!?!?!! What happened to my AF boost?
Zill The Scope	Posted - 2010.01.10 00:16:00 - [156] lol show me where I said eve was dieing ?.. I said its the darkfall mentality, where none wanted to take a risk but crowed about their pvp skills while killing a defencless person with 30 guys.
Neyro7830 Gallente The 5th Freedom Wildly Inappropriate.	Posted - 2010.01.10 00:21:00 - [157] Originally by: Zill lol show me where I said eve was dieing ?.. I said its the darkfall mentality, where none wanted to take a risk but crowed about their pvp skills while killing a defencless person with 30 guys. You mean the blob mentality. I have news for you. That has been going on for as long as there has been PVP combat. Darkfall didn't create it, and EVE certainly didn't create it.
Lithalnas Amarr Warsmiths Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.10 00:26:00 - [158] Originally by: Zill lol show me where I said eve was dieing ?.. I said its the darkfall mentality, where none wanted to take a risk but crowed about their pvp skills while killing a defencless person with 30 guys. Are we not entitled to unfair fights by inviting friends in a massively multiplayer game? -------------
Zill The Scope	Posted - 2010.01.10 01:13:00 - [159] again with putting words in my mouth lol. I never mentioned fair fights To me a fair fight is the one I win. I dont care how its done as long as I win. But ganking a retriever with 4 tempests then actually bragging about it is just teen schoolyard BS.... As for the blob thing, no eve didn't invent it, I saw it back in the days of Asherons Call 1 10 years ago. But myself Ive been a stealther in every MMO I play, to me I pick my fights as an when I choose. I do it though without heavy hardware, I don't use a tempest to swat a retriever. I use an SB, which means that miner has every chance of getting away or kicking my arse if I'm an idiot. Duck hunting with 20mm DU rounds isnt hunting..
Lithalnas Amarr Warsmiths Privateer Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.10 01:50:00 - [160] Originally by: Zill Edited by: Zill on 10/01/2010 01:17:25 Edited by: Zill on 10/01/2010 01:16:29 again with putting words in my mouth lol. I never mentioned fair fights To me a fair fight is the one I win. I don't care how its done as long as I win. But ganking a retriever with 4 tempests then actually bragging about it is just teen schoolyard BS.... As for the blob thing, no eve didn't invent it, I saw it back in the days of Asherons Call 1 10 years ago. But myself Ive been a stealther in every MMO I play, to me I pick my fights as an when I choose. I do it though without heavy hardware, I don't use a tempest to swat a retriever. I use an SB, which means that miner has every chance of getting away or kicking my arse if I'm an idiot. Duck hunting with 20mm DU rounds isnt hunting.. Thats all this hulk gank is, duck shooting with arty. Your just looking for tears an hopefully ppl to leave the game so you can crow that you single handed made some kid leave the game. That isn't pvp its exploiting the mechanic that has a huge hole in it. One that CCP will undoubtably fix The only problem here is people whining on the forums, and if you would join a corp thats at war with me we can fix that. Its not an exploit, there are exploits such as the moon mineral bug, this is the way the game was built and intended. You are explicitly allowed to suicide gank. My proof is that there have been numerous CONCORD buffs over the years but the ability to suicide in high-sec has never been banned/forbidden/disabled. -------------
Jintra Jin'tak	Posted - 2010.01.10 09:28:00 - [161] Miners will be posting in C&P for the first time. Apart from that, nothing will happen. Hulkageddon takes ISK out of the game and therefor counters inflation (tiny impact, but heck, IMPACT!) and gives a push to producers of both the Exhumers AND the ships used for suicide ganking. 1 mil that the loudest whiners will be macro miners. :)
Jarnis McPieksu Insidious Existence RAZOR Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.10 11:37:00 - [162] Edited by: Jarnis McPieksu on 10/01/2010 11:38:15 Originally by: Jintra Jin'tak Hulkageddon takes ISK out of the game No. It adds more ISK. I suggest you read up a bit on economics and how EVE game mechanics work. Each ship going boom and giving insurance (even low like on a Hulk) is an amount of ISK directly injected to the game. This ISK comes out of thin air. The ship that went boom did not require ISK to make - it required minerals, moon materials, datacores... granted, a lot of ISK changed hands between players during the process that turned moongoo and minerals into a Hulk, but when you go through all the steps, at no point ISK was paid to a "black hole" to create the Hulk. Only "sinks" on the way are POS fuel bits that are purchased from NPCs, factory rentals and sales taxes. These are just a fraction of the total. On a fundamental level, bunch of stuff players extracted from the game world turned into ISK through a great number of steps - but the actual ISK appeared only when the ship exploded. The ISK that came out of thin air when a ship went boom goes through player trading to miners, builders and traders. Do your part for the sake of the economy - suicide gank a Hulk today!
genette devo Gallente Center for Advanced Studies	Posted - 2010.01.10 12:16:00 - [163] Originally by: Archangel17 Originally by: Lana Torrin Originally by: Harrigan VonStudly Learn something about pvp to protect yourself and HTFU. All these greifers should learn something about mining TBH.. Cant mine, so you kill.. I hate to break it to you, but it requires no skill at all to mine. I used to mine and mission run and I can tell you I would have quit long ago had I not been introduced to pvp. Miners are usually just too afraid to pvp so will never become good at it. nothing like the skill it takes to attack unarmed ships, both suicide ganking requires the same level of skill as mining...they are both shooting at something that can't shoot back. I do find hulkageddon funny. one one hand you have the rage of miners, and on the other you have halfwits strutting around like they're delta force because they can pop easy targets. the current crop of gankers might succeed themselves out of business i could see ccp "rebalancing" high sec to keep the majority happy
Broken Spanner	Posted - 2010.01.10 12:21:00 - [164] I'm stocking up on empty bottle to store the sweet sweet suicide ganker tears, when Eve fixes insurance.
Jintra Jin'tak	Posted - 2010.01.10 13:55:00 - [165] Originally by: Jarnis McPieksu Each ship going boom and giving insurance (even low like on a Hulk) is an amount of ISK directly injected to the game. This ISK comes out of thin air. The ship that went boom did not require ISK to make - it required minerals, moon materials, datacores... granted, a lot of ISK changed hands between players during the process that turned moongoo and minerals into a Hulk, but when you go through all the steps, at no point ISK was paid to a "black hole" to create the Hulk. Only "sinks" on the way are POS fuel bits that are purchased from NPCs, factory rentals and sales taxes. These are just a fraction of the total. Didn't take that into account. Thanks for explaining. :)
Sophia Fine	Posted - 2010.01.10 14:23:00 - [166] What I think would be a nice solution is for concord to be the only NPC's ingame that pod and add 2 instalocking ships to each responsefleet. It's normal for the police to upgrade their procedures every now and then so why not in EVE, especially when the "criminals" are taing over. Anyone who gets concorded will still have a small window to escape in their pod. But it might reduce the average highsec pirates a bit since they are as carebear as most others and don't want to risk their sexpensive implants or fly around for days/weeks on end with reduced training while ganking. And no I'm not a miner at all, have 0 miningskills and even had this thought long before Hulkageddon II. /me dons flame******ant suit and laughs. Fine LotteryÖ.
Maistro	Posted - 2010.01.10 14:52:00 - [167] But seriously, what is stopping one alert person from RRing here?
Hulkageddon Jackpot	Posted - 2010.01.10 14:53:00 - [168] Originally by: Broken Spanner I'm stocking up on empty bottle to store the sweet sweet suicide ganker tears, when Eve fixes insurance. Hey genius, maybe we want that?
Dariah Stardweller	Posted - 2010.01.10 14:53:00 - [169] http://www.eveonline.com/council/transcripts/2009/CSM_CCP_Meeting_3-6_09_2009.pdf On page 15 it states that CCP is planning on reworking insurance for suicide ganking and T2/T3 ships. No ETA is given so I'm guessing we will see it in about 5 years. Carry on ganking
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.11 19:44:00 - [170] Edited by: Mendolus on 11/01/2010 19:45:15 Originally by: Jarnis McPieksu Edited by: Jarnis McPieksu on 10/01/2010 11:38:15 Originally by: Jintra Jin'tak Hulkageddon takes ISK out of the game No. It adds more ISK. I suggest you read up a bit on economics and how EVE game mechanics work. Each ship going boom and giving insurance (even low like on a Hulk) is an amount of ISK directly injected to the game. This ISK comes out of thin air. The ship that went boom did not require ISK to make - it required minerals, moon materials, datacores... granted, a lot of ISK changed hands between players during the process that turned moongoo and minerals into a Hulk, but when you go through all the steps, at no point ISK was paid to a "black hole" to create the Hulk. Only "sinks" on the way are POS fuel bits that are purchased from NPCs, factory rentals and sales taxes. These are just a fraction of the total. On a fundamental level, bunch of stuff players extracted from the game world turned into ISK through a great number of steps - but the actual ISK appeared only when the ship exploded. The ISK that came out of thin air when a ship went boom goes through player trading to miners, builders and traders. Do your part for the sake of the economy - suicide gank a Hulk today! T1 and T2 provide the same insurance payout. An arbitrary amount of minerals can produce more T1 than T2. Let's assume for argument's sake that minerals have an intrinsic and fixed value via insurance payouts that are seeded by the game. If more T1 ships are destroyed while insured you inject MORE ISK into the game. If more T2 ships are destroyed while insured you inject LESS ISK into the game. T2 ships have a poor mineral to currency conversion rate via insurance payouts. Suicide ganking T2 ships REMOVES ISK from the game. Suicide ganking T1 ships ADDS ISK to the game. If we wanted MORE ISK in the game we would suicide gank only T1 ships. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Kessiaan Minmatar Final Agony	Posted - 2010.01.11 19:56:00 - [171] Edited by: Kessiaan on 11/01/2010 19:56:39 While personally I'm having a lot of fun with Hulkageddon (hell I even got into a video that I can shamelessly plug here!), I think anyone who believes there will be no reaction from CCP once this is all over is kidding themselves. 1000+ exhumer kills in the span of a week in highsec is going to provoke some sort of reaction.
Guardian 1O5	Posted - 2010.01.11 20:05:00 - [172] Originally by: Slimy Worm Edited by: Slimy Worm on 08/01/2010 05:33:37 I hope they just do away with insurance (EDIT: I forgot to clarify "when you get CONCORDed"). It doesn't make sense for the SCC to pay it back when you lose it through getting CONCORDed. But I doubt they'll nerf maneuverability of people with low sec status while in highsec. They've never lowered a player's stats based on his or her security status before. Plus the lowsec pirates would be in an uproar because it would make it artificially difficult for them to fly small, fast ships to other pockets of lowsec. Aw poor lil low sec piwats, fright! shock! horror! that they might get their movements westwicted, for beeing wealy wealy bad, or gasp, or maybe penalised for being piwats in the 1st place.
Dariah Stardweller	Posted - 2010.01.11 20:10:00 - [173] Originally by: Kessiaan Edited by: Kessiaan on 11/01/2010 20:07:12 While personally I'm having a lot of fun with Hulkageddon (hell I even got into a video that I can shamelessly plug here!), I think anyone who believes there will be no reaction from CCP once this is all over is kidding themselves. 1000+ exhumer kills in the span of a week in highsec is going to provoke some sort of reaction. Like I pointed out: insurance IS going to get reworked, it will NOT be in favor of suicide gankers but since there is no ETA on that reworked insurance you can prolly keep ganking for free for at least a year :P
Kessiaan Minmatar Final Agony	Posted - 2010.01.11 20:17:00 - [174] Originally by: Dariah Stardweller Like I pointed out: insurance IS going to get reworked, it will NOT be in favor of suicide gankers but since there is no ETA on that reworked insurance you can prolly keep ganking for free for at least a year :P They can nerf insurance all they want - fully fit suicide dessies cost less than a million ISK each and a gang of 5 can alpha an untanked Hulk. Nerfing insurance would give pause to the soloers in suicide BS but the organized gangs would barely notice.
Dariah Stardweller	Posted - 2010.01.11 20:24:00 - [175] Originally by: Kessiaan They can nerf insurance all they want - fully fit suicide dessies cost less than a million ISK each and a gang of 5 can alpha an untanked Hulk. Nerfing insurance would give pause to the soloers in suicide BS but the organized gangs would barely notice. I know, but suicide ganking is often done solo cuz ppl are bored. After hulkageddon I don't expect mass destroyer gangs much. Other than insurance I don't think CCP will do much. And certainly not short term.
Mendolus Aurelius Federation Apotheosis of Virtue	Posted - 2010.01.11 20:26:00 - [176] Edited by: Mendolus on 11/01/2010 20:28:30 I highly doubt insurance will get reworked in that way, as there is still the lingering question of why an NPC pirate faction would NOT support (insure) and condone (reward) infiltration gangs in Empire via the RP. It is highly likely that they would implement faction allegiance as a sort of proxy FW so that insurance payouts would be valid along those lines, before they would just simply hit all insurance with the nerf bat. It is more likely they'll further restrict pilots by security status as they have already done once in the fairly recent past. The most I could ever see them doing about insurance payouts is not letting outlaws insure ships, period. But that's a stretch in and of itself. {...and they will respect a line drawn in the sand more than forgiveness}
Dacryphile	Posted - 2010.01.11 20:43:00 - [177] I can easily see CCP changing insurance to no pay out to concord killed vessels. But like has been said, finding a good hulk to kill would still bring profit to 6 catalyst gankers, insurance or no. Originally by: Doc Robertson ...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
Leocadminone	Posted - 2010.01.11 23:30:00 - [178] Originally by: Dacryphile I can easily see CCP changing insurance to no pay out to concord killed vessels. But like has been said, finding a good hulk to kill would still bring profit to 6 catalyst gankers, insurance or no. There was a CCP Dev announcement over a year ago that Concord Kills would no longer get insurance payment as some point in the future - still hasn't happened yet, but it SHOULD and is overdue. On the other hand, if someone SMART at CCP was monitoring what happens to folks that get ganked, I suspect they're be a bit less happy than you might think over this - I personally know 2 folks that QUIT EVE over getting ganked for no reason by Hulkageddon participants, and I suspect there are more than that. As far as it's effects on the economy - very minor. Prices blipped due to speculation Friday and Saturday but are right back down to where they started or essencially so now. The kill rate bragged about by Hulkageddon BARELY manages to match an average sales day at Jita - if they keep up their current rate, their total bag MIGHT equate to an average Jita sales week. I'm pretty sure one dead TITAN eats more minerals. 8-P And yeah, yanking insurance isn't going to have a major effect on the DD gank gangs. it WOULD largely eliminate the Battleship solo gankers, but those aren't as common.
Helicity Boson Amarr The Python Cartel. The Jerk Cartel	Posted - 2010.01.11 23:36:00 - [179] For the umpteenth time, I created hulkageddon and I think insurance after death concord needs to be removed. there you go, straight from the horse's mouth.
Liang Nuren The Lollypop Factory	Posted - 2010.01.12 00:32:00 - [180] Originally by: Helicity Boson For the umpteenth time, I created hulkageddon and I think insurance after death concord needs to be removed. I'd say that nobody consistently suicide ganks purely for the lulz, but maybe this event proves otherwise. It would not be catastrophic to remove insurance for being CONCORDODEKKONED. -Liang -- Liang Nuren - Eve Forum ***** Extraordinaire www.kwikdeath.org
Mograph Caldari Doth IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.01.12 01:03:00 - [181] Edited by: Mograph on 12/01/2010 01:04:13 I already posted in another thread how you can balance the risk vs reward malarky of suicide ganking with a quick change to the insurance system. if your + 10 sec you get 50% off insurance quotes, if you -10 sec you get 50% added to your insurance quote but payout should be mineral baseprice only. 2 versions of insurance, Comprehensive and Basic, Comp does cover concord but costs a bit more and Basic doesnt cover concord but costs a bit less. SHIMPLEZ! if your sec status is below -3 then you cant have the Comprehensive Insurance. both types of insurance cover player vs player deaths and death by gate/station/faction navy police. High sec mission runners are happy in case the accidentally blow up somebody in a huge tin of failcakes, pirates are happy, they still get some money when they die. Nope?? make sense?? anyway hulkageddon is amazing love it brilliant yadayadayadayadayadayadayada! Comments(and possibly this is in the wrong thread but suck my bawls) (edited becuase i should inform you that i'm drunk) and if you are reading this you have reached the signature without noticing.
Zethro	Posted - 2010.01.12 01:06:00 - [182] To all you carebears out there who hate this hulkaggedon thing why dont you guys raise the price of the ore and mats if the ore goes up enough it will cost to much to to build there ships dont you get it think about if it cost 10 mill to buy a distoryer and it only pays out 1.5 mill do you think there would be all this ganking RAISE THE PRICE GUYS IF YOU WANT THEM TO STOP KILLING YOU RAISE THE PRICE
Mograph Caldari Doth IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.01.12 01:21:00 - [183] Originally by: Zethro To all you carebears out there who hate this hulkaggedon thing why dont you guys raise the price of the ore and mats if the ore goes up enough it will cost to much to to build there ships dont you get it think about if it cost 10 mill to buy a distoryer and it only pays out 1.5 mill do you think there would be all this ganking RAISE THE PRICE GUYS IF YOU WANT THEM TO STOP KILLING YOU RAISE THE PRICE Shut up Zethro and if you are reading this you have reached the signature without noticing.
Packert	Posted - 2010.01.12 01:48:00 - [184] Originally by: Zethro To all you carebears out there who hate this hulkaggedon thing why dont you guys raise the price of the ore and mats if the ore goes up enough it will cost to much to to build there ships dont you get it think about if it cost 10 mill to buy a distoryer and it only pays out 1.5 mill do you think there would be all this ganking RAISE THE PRICE GUYS IF YOU WANT THEM TO STOP KILLING YOU RAISE THE PRICE Since ccp allows these game mechanic's it does no good for miner's to suggest changes to EVE. If your a miner your only real option is to find an MMO that will let you play the game that you have paid for without being constantly harrsed in a way supported by ccp. I look forward to a good gaming experance for a change as I leave EVE to try a new MMO. Also save your flames since I know no one cares about my accounts.
Mograph Caldari Doth IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.01.12 01:51:00 - [185] Originally by: Packert Originally by: Zethro To all you carebears out there who hate this hulkaggedon thing why dont you guys raise the price of the ore and mats if the ore goes up enough it will cost to much to to build there ships dont you get it think about if it cost 10 mill to buy a distoryer and it only pays out 1.5 mill do you think there would be all this ganking RAISE THE PRICE GUYS IF YOU WANT THEM TO STOP KILLING YOU RAISE THE PRICE Since ccp allows these game mechanic's it does no good for miner's to suggest changes to EVE. If your a miner your only real option is to find an MMO that will let you play the game that you have paid for without being constantly harrsed in a way supported by ccp. I look forward to a good gaming experance for a change as I leave EVE to try a new MMO. Also save your flames since I know no one cares about my accounts. Can i Haz your stuff? and if you are reading this you have reached the signature without noticing.
Mara Tessidar	Posted - 2010.01.12 01:53:00 - [186] Originally by: Packert Since ccp allows these game mechanic's it does no good for miner's to suggest changes to EVE. If your a miner your only real option is to find an MMO that will let you play the game that you have paid for without being constantly harrsed in a way supported by ccp. I look forward to a good gaming experance for a change as I leave EVE to try a new MMO. Also save your flames since I know no one cares about my accounts.

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