| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |
|
|
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
NaveTheGreat
   |
Posted - 2010.01.17 14:02:00 -
[1]
Honestly not to be a **** but ccp you have got to give us the kill rights when people steal salvage from us in missions.. it is no different then stealing loot and should be treated the same way thank you guys for hearing me i hope to see this implemented soon if possible.
|
Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 14:07:00 -
[2]
No. On pretty much all accounts.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
NaveTheGreat
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 14:10:00 -
[3]
Edited by: NaveTheGreat on 17/01/2010 14:11:56
why not lol and your not ccp!! hehe i mean why would someone from IT alliance be supporting ninja salvaging? only the WORSE players do it.. and im sure that doesnt include yourself
|
iioki
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 14:14:00 -
[4]
Edited by: iioki on 17/01/2010 14:14:58
CCP should stop ninja slavaging, but Ninja salvaging works just fine the way it is
|
Ariswill
Caldari
Atrum Flamma
Shadow Rock Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 14:18:00 -
[5]
i agree to be honest i think salvage should go to the person/corp that killed it but if they dont salvage it after 20 min or so it can be taken by all... something like that would work better then just letting people steal and ruin some fun of the game :/
|
Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 14:20:00 -
[6]
Why not? Because… Originally by: NaveTheGreat
ccp you have got to give us the kill rights
No they don't. Why would they have to?
Quote:
when people steal salvage from us in missions.
No. The salvage isn't yours, so they're not stealing it.
Quote:
it is no different then stealing loot and should be treated the same way
No, it's almost completely different. The loot is part of the mission rewards, that's why it's yours – the salvage is something extra that you have to earn
Quote:
i hope to see this implemented soon if possible.
Don't hold your breath. Because… per CCP Mitnal: Originally by: CCP Mitnal
"Our policy on this is extremely clear... Salvaging is a mini-profession within EVE and does not constitute stealing."
Per GM Faolchu: Originally by: GM Faolchu
Salvaging other peoples wrecks.... This is an intended game mechanic and is in no way an exploit. People salvaging your missions npcs or the player you just blew up are doing nothing wrong. The players are salvaging what is effectively floating rubbish in space and Concord places no value on this wreckage.
Eve is a harsh place you won't always have everything go your way, its a do or die world and people do what they can to get along. If salvaging some wreckage gets them a few more ISK someone will do it, it doesn't matter who just blew it up.
Per Senior GM Ytterbium: Originally by: GM Ytterbium
Players are still completely free to salvage other pilot wrecks at will ... and doing so is not considered as an exploit.
Per CCP Prism X: Originally by: CCP Prism X
Why is stealing salvage OK? It's not. It shouldn't even be possible to move an item from your cargo-hold / hanger to another persons cargo-hold / hanger without opening a trade window. Before the salvage enters those containers it is not considered your stuff by the server code. Hence it's not stealing.
Per CCP Incognito: Originally by: CCP Incognito
Had a chat with some designers this evening.
Ninja salvaging is intended game play. It was always intended that the wrecks are public, the loot is private.
They do not see it as a problem if others salvage your wrecks.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Demolishar
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 14:32:00 -
[7]
I'd love to have another method of becoming red to people running missions!
|
Dacryphile
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 14:49:00 -
[8]
Ninja salvaging is easy to avoid. Just don't mission in a major mission hub.
Originally by: Doc Robertson
...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
|
Julia Venatrix
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 15:00:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Demolishar
I'd love to have another method of becoming red to people running missions!
Then nobody is complaining about you. Mission runners love you.
Really. No smiley.
Mission runners love loot thieves. (OK, that may not be entirely true. But the good ones do.) Most of us have a PvP fit or four sat in Motsu or Dodixie or wherever, and when you go flashy we think -YES! Off to get my inty! I may lose, but I'm going to have fun!- before we go back to grinding missions for ISK and minerals to build more HACs to get blown up in smallgang nullsec.
What we whine and snivel about are pathetic cowardly carebear ninja salvagers, who hide their scaredy-assed gutless carcasses behind the skirts of CONCORD like a first-grader peeking round from behind his momma, instead of grabbing the first loot mod they see and finding out whether someone with enough SP to fly a Pally has learned how to drive a Curse on the way.
We don't mind losing at PvP (and we don't always lose). We do mind getting neither the salvage from the wrecks we shot, nor any fun out of fighting someone for it instead.
---
Some days you are the pigeon, and some the statue. |
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 17:59:00 -
[10]
Can't you just fly out and have the guy take the aggro? It's not like they come with titans to tank the damage...
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
|
|
superteds
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 18:03:00 -
[11]
0/10
|
Slaydo GAme
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 19:10:00 -
[12]
Hasn't there been like 20 tpoics on this already coming from whining people just like you who can't adapt to the game already? Its not going to happen, as somebody who was nice enough to post quotes from ccp; as you can tell, what you want isn't going to happen.
Option one: Move to a different mission spot that doesnt have as many people. (Also doing this at night helps as well).
Two: Shoot all your wrecks. You do know its simply better to pull as many missions then loot and salavage them. Even if you don't do 4s, I'd imagine the quicker you do missions and get the standings, the quicker you'll be doing 4s.
three: Stop for 30-40 minutes and go do something else (other then whining, cause every one here loves tears).
Four: when they blink red grab another ship and fight back.
|
RenegadeChemist
Caldari
Poksu Exploration Group
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 19:18:00 -
[13]
I never loot (except faction/commander spawns) or salvage, but it's interesting that server code thinks that wreck belongs to someone (right click wreck and see), loot in wreck belongs to someone, but the salvage from wreck doesn't 
|
Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 19:29:00 -
[14]
Originally by: RenegadeChemist
I never loot (except faction/commander spawns) or salvage, but it's interesting that server code thinks that wreck belongs to someone (right click wreck and see), loot in wreck belongs to someone, but the salvage from wreck doesn't
Interesting, perhaps, but not particularly strange. After all, the salvage doesn't exist until it spawns in your cargo hold, and as soon as it is in your cargohold, it's flagged as yours.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
RenegadeChemist
Caldari
Poksu Exploration Group
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 19:57:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Tippia
Originally by: RenegadeChemist
I never loot (except faction/commander spawns) or salvage, but it's interesting that server code thinks that wreck belongs to someone (right click wreck and see), loot in wreck belongs to someone, but the salvage from wreck doesn't
Interesting, perhaps, but not particularly strange. After all, the salvage doesn't exist until it spawns in your cargo hold, and as soon as it is in your cargohold, it's flagged as yours.
Yes we all know that...
But it still comes from the same wreck... The wreck does exist... And the salvage by that does really exist in the wreck, it's just not 'picked' up yet. Yes, game doesn't see it that way.
|
grazer gin
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 20:32:00 -
[16]
Yes give us killrights i want whatever you faction/plex/officer fit CNR has on it more than this PoS piece of salvage
|
stravros vatta
|
Posted - 2010.01.17 21:02:00 -
[17]
salvage belongs to whoever salvages the wreak not the person who destroyed the ship that made the weak
also the only thing funner than seeing ninja victims cry in local is to see them cry on the forums
|
Kaian Voskhod
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 01:21:00 -
[18]
1 Take X alts.
2 Run missions until you are in Recon 3/3
3 Be a sitting duck in your toxic cloud
4 LOLZ ninja frigs explosions
|
Marguerite Antiki
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 01:46:00 -
[19]
Originally by: NaveTheGreat
Honestly not to be a **** but ccp you have got to give us the kill rights when people steal salvage from us in missions.. it is no different then stealing loot and should be treated the same way thank you guys for hearing me i hope to see this implemented soon if possible.
I salvage other peoples missions all the time, no one seems to notice and it seems to be a very small % of carebears that cry at me. That to me indicates its not a problem, all is working ok and as noted before, working as intended by the devs.
|
Some Advisor
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 02:04:00 -
[20]
interesting how tipia did shut "nave" up... no more text from him HAHA :>
---
Donations, thankyou / hatemails always welcome :P
if you want to "ragequit" or take a longer break i also like BPOs of any kind with the promise you get it back at any time you return |
|
|
Marguerite Antiki
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 04:14:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Some Advisor
interesting how tipia did shut "nave" up... no more text from him HAHA :>
Maybe Nave is not so "Great" after all ? ?
|
Insa Rexion
Minmatar
CTRL-Q
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 04:24:00 -
[22]
Originally by: NaveTheGreat
Honestly not to be a **** but ccp you have got to give us the kill rights when people steal salvage from us in missions.. it is no different then stealing loot and should be treated the same way thank you guys for hearing me i hope to see this implemented soon if possible.
ROFL, I love the optimistic way you comment "i hope to see this implemented soon" at the end. I must ask you, have you EVER read the forums before, even one time ?
Personally I hope you greedy little mission pigs get what you want so I can read some "ninjas killed my mission ship" whines instead for a change cuz this topic is older than jesus
--------------------------------------------
well mannered ****ole |
Kaian Voskhod
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 09:48:00 -
[23]
When i'm bored doing L4
I suicide gank probe frigs. It's amazing how they yell about 1-2 mil ship.
What do Ninja hate else? Warping In a 3/3 recon. Very funny too.
They seem to dislike my salvaging tengu because they can't speed more than the wreck neither than my ship. so it's quite GAME OVER for them (if i don't prefer to warp out and come back with my suicide gank toy - yeah i won't salvage after just for funny vengeance).
|
Krinthe
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 10:27:00 -
[24]
Edited by: Krinthe on 18/01/2010 10:34:25
I think the OP is a bit outta touch with "EVE's" meanings of the 3 distinct words being used here and knowing the difference.
Wreck = The remains of a ship that was destroyed.
Salvage = Whats inside that wreck that is, erhmm, salvagable (with proper training).
Loot = Any "goods" which actualy enter your cargo hold. <---Until then, you do NOT own anything.
To put it another way, for example...
You wander around the streets, always looking at the ground for money. You see a $10 dollar bill a few feet ahead. As you go to get it, you notice another person has also seen the $10 dollar bill.
You have a habit of looking for money, the other person just happened to be there.
Who's $10 bucks does it belong too?
You'd most likely say it was yours. The other guy argues the point that it wasnt ever yours to begin with and still isnt.
So, it all boils down to who gets the "loot" into their pocket (cargo bay) first.
Thats EVE for ya 
A 10th of all I earn I keep for myself. |
Ynon
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 10:28:00 -
[25]
I feel you mate. Kind of sick of them myself. I don't mind the occasional ninja; some are even decent guys and leave some wrecks for me to salvage, but where I am missioning, about every lvl 4 in the hub itself is crawling with them, as well as dual account baiter-ganker loot thieves who also steal the occasional mission item which I personally have no way of dealing with (yet).
Seeing around 80% of my missions in the hub itself infested with them (and often multiple ones) is a little too much, so I am currently moving to a more quiet system. Agent quality isn't nearly as good but more loot & salvage and less mission items stolen but most of all; no frustration of seeing your work and time investment violated by a parade of vultures would be a blessing.
|
Starlk
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 15:00:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Starlk on 18/01/2010 14:59:51
I always ask first, but so many people block you or don't reply I kinda just take it now. I alwats tend to leave a cargo container nearby to thank the pilot, usually with a couple of items inside. If I'm running missions myself and have no salvager on me, I loot the cargo then turn the wrecks blue.
People get too whiney over a bloody game.
|
Parzifal
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 15:24:00 -
[27]
Eve is the only online game I've played where bad behavior among players is not only tolerated but encouraged by the game designers. Luckily, for those frustrated with the game, Jumpgate Evolution will soon be out.
The OP said his piece and left and it's a wonder why people are keeping this thread alive. Are the ninja salvagers afraid that CCP is going to change it's mind?
|
Banana Torres
The Green Banana Corporation
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 15:33:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Tippia
Why not? Becauseà Originally by: NaveTheGreat
ccp you have got to give us the kill rights
No they don't. Why would they have to?
According to CCP, Eve is a PvP game.
It would seem to me that making the ninja looter killable adds another way to PvP, so would fit in with CCP's stated intent.
(And I mean PvP with guns, not the make pretend PvP that uses an auction house, if you understand me)
|
Quinn Tokimeki
Caldari
NOVA TECH
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 16:49:00 -
[29]
-10 cool points...
----
The 3 steps to success: Mining, ?, Profit. |
Bouchement
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 17:53:00 -
[30]
Originally by: grazer gin
Yes give us killrights i want whatever you faction/plex/officer fit CNR has on it more than this PoS piece of salvage
THIS
Think about it... my PvP ship vs. your mission ship while webbed and/or fighting rats. Vegas odds say you're through. I'm not in there looting in a Catalyst... I'm bringing something scary. Or am I?
|
|
|
Mack Bane
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 18:00:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Krinthe
To put it another way, for example...
You wander around the streets, always looking at the ground for money. You see a $10 dollar bill a few feet ahead. As you go to get it, you notice another person has also seen the $10 dollar bill.
You have a habit of looking for money, the other person just happened to be there.
Who's $10 bucks does it belong too?
You'd most likely say it was yours. The other guy argues the point that it wasnt ever yours to begin with and still isnt.
So, it all boils down to who gets the "loot" into their pocket (cargo bay) first.
Thats EVE for ya
LOL.Let me put this in another light.(from missionrunner perspective)
I kill the guy, for his wallet with 10 bucks in it, Plus his corpse, which i could sell for his organs, and make another 50K, so, the wallet is mine but a rogue butcher thinks, the carcass is his, and i have to let him get it ? But if he takes the 10 bucks,I might kill him for that? sorry, there is no logic in that.
The only way to get the salvage IMO is, salvaging while fighting.(reduces possible targets to ninja salvagers, plus, saves time)
|
madteamkiller
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 19:40:00 -
[32]
You catch a fish, kill it and put it on the bank beside you so later you are able to have dinner. Someone walks up to you and takes the fish you just court and killed. You attempt to stop the man but can't. The law prevents you.
Perfect analogy in this instance.
|
holy bjesus
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 19:48:00 -
[33]
Originally by: madteamkiller
You catch a fish, kill it and put it on the bank beside you so later you are able to have dinner. Someone walks up to you and takes the fish you just court and killed. You attempt to stop the man but can't. The law prevents you.
Perfect analogy in this instance.
Perhaps you should have put the fish in your pocket or basket instead of leaving it lying around for anyone to take.
|
Tippia
Reikoku
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 20:09:00 -
[34]
Originally by: madteamkiller
You catch a fish, kill it and put it on the bank beside you so later you are able to have dinner. Someone walks up to you and takes the fish you just court and killed. You attempt to stop the man but can't. The law prevents you.
Perfect analogy in this instance.
Not really, no.
You catch a fish, kill it and eat it. Later on, someone rifles through your garbage can and take the fish bones, even though you intended to fashion some new hooks out of them. The law prevents you from shooting the man in the face for taking stuff you left behind.
ùùù
ôIf you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡à
you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.ö
ù Karath Piki |
Kalana Eargon
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 20:28:00 -
[35]
Ok I hate ninja salvaging more than any other thing in this game, I don't even salvage my wrecks usually but it still annoys me and I blow all the wrecks up when I see a ninja salvaging. Now with all my hatred towards these horrible annoying maggots I still agree it should be ok for them to "steal" salvage.
Salvaging was intended to be a mini-profession and right now it is. It's just something that annoys certain people but Eve is a sandbox game and just because you don't like it doesn't mean it's bad gameplay mechanics. Honestly when I do missions it's only a problem because I don't do anything to stop it. You can make your ship unscannable, you can do mission in low-sec, you can do mission in a Marauder and easily salvage while doing the mission. Granted the first two options my not be that great of an idea as you would lose gank or risk getting ganked. The fact is though that salvaging is just something extra you can do after the mission or during it. So when a ninja salvager comes they are in no way taking away from your mission, the just happen to be doing their own thing salvaging wrecks that just happen to be yours today :(
I'm sorry I know how much a lot of us hate these guys but the truth is it should be allowed, it's just not looked well upon.
|
Rhuskel
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 20:32:00 -
[36]
firstly, OMG lol. $10 dollar bills and fishes lol.
ok ninja salvaging is it right or wrong?
its DAM wrong. the abandon wreck feature allows pilots to donate wrecks and cans to who ever takes them. i agree with salvaging wrecks that are floating around the place i.e gates and low sec systems, however mission wrecks should be, in my opinion consirded as who ever kills em, keeps em. loot, salvo the lot. if then the pilot doesnt want them then they can abandon the wrecks. otherwise whats the point of that feature. regardless of what the GM's say, this area of topic needs some refinement for all pilots. and to the ninjas, if u wanna salvo then ask first...
|
Twiddletwat
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 20:34:00 -
[37]
Ninja salvaging is awesome, best isk/hour there is for a new player.
|
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 21:10:00 -
[38]
Originally by: Rhuskel
firstly, OMG lol. $10 dollar bills and fishes lol.
ok ninja salvaging is it right or wrong?
its DAM wrong. the abandon wreck feature allows pilots to donate wrecks and cans to who ever takes them. i agree with salvaging wrecks that are floating around the place i.e gates and low sec systems, however mission wrecks should be, in my opinion consirded as who ever kills em, keeps em. loot, salvo the lot. if then the pilot doesnt want them then they can abandon the wrecks. otherwise whats the point of that feature. regardless of what the GM's say, this area of topic needs some refinement for all pilots. and to the ninjas, if u wanna salvo then ask first...
Ugh.
EVE is designed as a competitive game. The fact that missions are an infinite resource is about as good as it's going to get. Don't hold your breath for anything that would prevent someone from taking stuff you left in space, whether it be loot, salvage or ore.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
|
RenegadeChemist
Caldari
Poksu Exploration Group
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 21:35:00 -
[39]
Only reason why salvage isn't treated just like loot, is the server code wich does flag loot to someone, but doesn't flag the salvage to someone because it's not generated when the loot is generated while with common sense it's already there 
Anyway, good to have salvagers around cleaning nodes 
|
Mr Spartan
Battle-Ready - CENTRAL COMMAND DIVISION
H Y E N A
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 22:21:00 -
[40]
Alright so Ninja Salvaging makes sense to me. I get how when you take salvage it's not illegal but when you take actual loot it is illegal. But when they take the salvage and the loot gets popped out in a can that can then belongs to their corporation, so taking it gives them aggro to me. What can I do?
|
|
|
Dacryphile
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 23:22:00 -
[41]
Originally by: Mr Spartan
Edited by: Mr Spartan on 18/01/2010 22:26:38
Alright so Ninja Salvaging makes sense to me. I get how when you take salvage it's not illegal but when you take actual loot it is illegal. What can I do when they take loot that's mission specific?
Buy it off of the person who was smart enough to get to it before you.
Originally by: Doc Robertson
...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
|
Birdman Ravo
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 23:23:00 -
[42]
If a ninja salvager takes mission critical loot they are obligated to give it back through trade, can, contract, whatever. If they don't, it's griefing which is a violation of the EULA and can get them in hot water.
Any salvager worth his or her salt knows this and will either ignore mission critical loot or use it to ruffle the missioner's feathers further.
"Here's your damsel. I'm jettisoning her to this can. No I'm not making the can blue. And I'm going to lock you while you take it because I know you're shaking in carebear fearfury right now."
|
Ynon
|
Posted - 2010.01.18 23:36:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Birdman Ravo
If a ninja salvager takes mission critical loot they are obligated to give it back through trade, can, contract, whatever. If they don't, it's griefing which is a violation of the EULA and can get them in hot water.
Any salvager worth his or her salt knows this and will either ignore mission critical loot or use it to ruffle the missioner's feathers further.
"Here's your damsel. I'm jettisoning her to this can. No I'm not making the can blue. And I'm going to lock you while you take it because I know you're shaking in carebear fearfury right now."
Petitioned a mission loot theft yesterday and was told that this is 'working as intended' :<
|
CLETUS DEADMAN
|
Posted - 2010.01.19 00:07:00 -
[44]
I think the rules should be changed so that everybody can build their own standing, get their own missions, and then salvage and loot their own wrecks as they please.
This prohibiting players from getting standing and missions, having to take them from other players is really getting old.
You listening CCP?
Next your going to tell me that that mechanic is "working as intended also!"
|
Marguerite Antiki
|
Posted - 2010.01.19 00:38:00 -
[45]
I like analogies, can I make one since we have fish and wallets and $10.
"A wild west cowboy gets a mission from a sheriff to kill some bad people. The Cowboy finds bad people at place X, kills them, the buildigns and even the horse they rode, and then takes all the loot from their horse sadle bags, from the wrecked buildings and any other Lootable" containers that are there.
While he is just finishing up, a small indian comes in, skins the horse for its fur, takes soem wood from the wrecked buildings and then wanders off.
Now the wild west cowboy is upset and goes and complains to the Sherif that he was robbed. But the Sheriff points out that he got his reward for killin the bad people (mission reward), has been paid bounties, status has gone up and he took the loot form the dead bodies.
Yet the cowboy is still upset cause the indian stole from him. Yet the sheriff cannot see how, as the indian took materials and skins from a dead horse and a blown up building and didnt steal any loot, didnt take the mission objective nor attacked the cowboy...........
Sheriff asks why didnt the cowboy take salvage tools when out there, yet the cowboy rants on how he needs to carry lots of guns and doesnt want to leave a gun behind so they can salvage materials while out in a mission.
Funny enough Sheriff (CCP) doesnt seem to care as the mission is paid, bounties paid and sec status raised."
Yay - my anaolgy has been added.....
|
Dacryphile
|
Posted - 2010.01.19 00:58:00 -
[46]
Originally by: CLETUS DEADMAN
I think the rules should be changed so that everybody can build their own standing, get their own missions, and then salvage and loot their own wrecks as they please.
This prohibiting players from getting standing and missions, having to take them from other players is really getting old.
You listening CCP?
Next your going to tell me that that mechanic is "working as intended also!"
It is not prohibiting any such thing. Rare is the mission that has a mission complete item, and if you have a ninja in your mission, it is up to you to make sure they don't get it first.
As it stands, people already have to build their own standings for their own missions. Eve is an interactive MMO, so people can always find you. If you don't like that, then don't play an MMO. Or play one that instances you into a single player experience.
Originally by: Doc Robertson
...take a good look at this pic and tell us which one is you.
|
Lolrus McBukkit
|
Posted - 2010.01.19 01:33:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Birdman Ravo
If a ninja salvager takes mission critical loot they are obligated to give it back through trade, can, contract, whatever. If they don't, it's griefing which is a violation of the EULA and can get them in hot water.
Incorrect. The only thing ninja's have to do is attempt to ransom back the objective to the Mission Runner. As long as an attempt to sell it back it made, no matter how ridiculous the price, they're home free.
|
Marguerite Antiki
|
Posted - 2010.01.19 02:55:00 -
[48]
Originally by: CLETUS DEADMAN
I think the rules should be changed so that everybody can build their own standing, get their own missions, and then salvage and loot their own wrecks as they please.
This prohibiting players from getting standing and missions, having to take them from other players is really getting old.
You listening CCP?
Next your going to tell me that that mechanic is "working as intended also!"
I think the solution you are after is a single player style gameplay where no one can scan you down in a mission. Is that what you want? Cause it sounds like you cant handle some one comming in and doing their own thing with the current rules of gameplay.
|
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2010.01.19 03:44:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Lolrus McBukkit
Originally by: Birdman Ravo
If a ninja salvager takes mission critical loot they are obligated to give it back through trade, can, contract, whatever. If they don't, it's griefing which is a violation of the EULA and can get them in hot water.
Incorrect. The only thing ninja's have to do is attempt to ransom back the objective to the Mission Runner. As long as an attempt to sell it back it made, no matter how ridiculous the price, they're home free.
You're right, but it should be petitioned anyway.
1. You'll eventually get your mission reset, since there doesn't seem to be an official policy about it.
2. It's a stupid and unfair mechanic that should be changed. Mission critical loot should be in locked containers or (preferably) removed from missions completely and missions reworked so they aren't needed.
3. It qualifies as griefing if you ask me, since it's causing standing losses with no gain to the "thief" and there's realistically nothing you can do about it
Because what do you do, shoot them and get concorded, blow up your mission objective, possibly both? Oh I know, mission in low-sec/0.0 where you can shoot them before they loot? Oh wait they can just hang out by the can cloaked until it's cleared and snag it then. Or better yet outright kill you, make you lose your ship and fail the mission
Eventually maybe we can bring about the death of forced faction standing losses (which can be huge) at the click of a button.
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
|
Winterjack
|
Posted - 2010.01.19 10:04:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Wet Ferret
2. It's a stupid and unfair mechanic that should be changed.
Dunno. I don't mind it actually, adds some "spice".
Quote:
3. It qualifies as griefing if you ask me, since it's causing standing losses with no gain to the "thief" and there's realistically nothing you can do about it
Well, the point is no one is asking YOU, with all due respect. It's CCP we're going to be asking for an opinion ;) and they stated it.
Yet, I think mission critical items should be bound to the player who spawned the bubble: this way, a ninja can in fact ninja it, but the rightful "owner" should be able to fight for it.
|
|
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2010.01.19 10:21:00 -
[51]
Edited by: Vaerah Vahrokha on 19/01/2010 10:22:11
Quote:
2. It's a stupid and unfair mechanic that should be changed. Mission critical loot should be in locked containers or (preferably) removed from missions completely and missions reworked so they aren't needed.
CCP worked very hard to make a sandbox PvP game.
Now, this is the good of EvE because it gives so much freedom and no "this way or die" plastic wrapped path.
It's less good when it goes against our face, expecially since freedom is also about unconsensual freedom taken by others. Ninjaing exist exactly to remind that this is not a single player game (there are some who look like EvE but are single player for those preferring playing solo).
You can take it bad or you can take with philosophy.
I.e. I don't care to see a ninja because in the end their damage is not so huge.
On the contrary, I take some wicked feeling because I know the triggers and always flip them and warp out and enjoy the sight with my other alt (salvager, stands a bit off the action).
You can't believe the WTFPwnage effect they get. Once done the guy leaves with his tail between his leg and you loot his own ship under his face. I replenish my T2 drones off ninja salvagers (I have no idea why they come with that good stuff but hey, a gift is a gift!).
Quote:
Oh I know, mission in low-sec/0.0 where you can shoot them before they loot? Oh wait they can just hang out by the can cloaked until it's cleared and snag it then. Or better yet outright kill you, make you lose your ship and fail the mission
In 0.0 you'd do that with friends, the risk of being ganked drops to about zero, and this assuming your corp is not camping the entry gate anyway.
In low sec you can also do it with friends for a similar effect or you can go in one of those "tranquil low sec" sacks, some are even just 2-3 jumps in low sec.
The hard deal I had in that case was to bring the ship over there thru the 0.5 to 0.4 sec passage systems - requires a scout and near downtime - once inside the final system it's not so bad.
Some low sec mission hubs even got intel channels to warn against the known guys entering places.
Actually, what happens if a guy in a Vaga probes you in low sec (and does not come in 10 people)? I know that in a cruiser it was... hurtful but I have yet to be attacked by one in my battleship. I wonder about the outcome. I do pack some 1700 hit per turret vs zero resist...
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
Krinthe
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2010.01.19 10:55:00 -
[52]
Originally by: Mr Spartan
Edited by: Mr Spartan on 18/01/2010 22:26:38
Alright so Ninja Salvaging makes sense to me. I get how when you take salvage it's not illegal but when you take actual loot it is illegal. What can I do when they take loot that's mission specific?
Your last sentence there is mis-worded. It should read "What can I do when they take SALVAGE thats mission specific?"
Hence the term "Ninja Salvaging"
And lets also not forget the lonely word I think a lot of people overlook.
"NINJA"
Aside from being assassins, what are Ninja's well known for?
Stealth, right?
So, if the Ninja Salvager was doing his/her job right, YOU, the missioner, would never know they were there. The "Ninja" would wait for you to leave and then SNEAK in and Salvage what they could that was valuable.
A 10th of all I earn I keep for myself. |
Jint Hikaru
OffWorld Exploration Inc
|
Posted - 2010.01.19 12:58:00 -
[53]
The missioner has the advantage as they know when and where a wreck is going to be. They are also allowed to tractor that wreck.
If they choose not to fit a Tractor/Salvager then Tough Poop!
Salvage is First COme, First Served.... you have all the advantages, but most choose not to use them, they just want to cry on the forums.
As for Kill Rights.... For a while there would be huge forum tears... Waaa a Ninja came back in a PVP boat after I shot him and I lost my mission ship... or I ran away and now he is sitting in my mission waiting for me (WAAAA I'M BEING GREAFED)
Then after that they would never shoot at ninjas again and begin crying on the forums to get salvage flagged with ownership.
------------------------
Jint Hikaru - Miner / Salvager / Explorer
"I've got a couple of Strippers on my ship... and they just love to dance!"
------------------------ |
Dzil
Caldari
Greyhound investments
|
Posted - 2010.01.19 14:28:00 -
[54]
Originally by: NaveTheGreat
Edited by: NaveTheGreat on 17/01/2010 14:11:56
why not lol and your not ccp!! hehe i mean why would someone from IT alliance be supporting ninja salvaging? only the WORSE players do it.. and im sure that doesnt include yourself
If a player with <100 million isk ninja salvages, is it still bad?
Dzil's Corp Sales - 200m |
Solomar Espersei
Caldari
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2010.01.19 21:00:00 -
[55]
Ah... horrible, annoying maggot here.
Thank you OP, I simply love these threads. Seriously, if you want kill rights, just convo me or any of my associates in game and we'll be happy to let you shoot at us.
all the best,
solomar |
Marguerite Antiki
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.01.19 22:24:00 -
[56]
Originally by: NaveTheGreat
Edited by: NaveTheGreat on 17/01/2010 14:11:56
why not lol and your not ccp!! hehe i mean why would someone from IT alliance be supporting ninja salvaging? only the WORSE players do it.. and im sure that doesnt include yourself
I support a profession where myself, friends and corp mates take our time to clean up salvage in missions (our own and other players) so that it goes towards making Trimark Pumps (and other rigs) for our own players. Doing this helps our corp out greatly and gives us an added bonus to salvaging other peoples missions and our own as it means double the salvage equals less time it takes to make the rigs.
As noted by the developers that this is a mini profession, and I can agree that it is. I will scan a system that has battleships, battle cruisers and anything else noticeable on a directional scan/probes to quickly bookmark and then go and mop up the salvage from those missions; and I do this for a couple of reasons;
1.Keeps me in practice for PvP ship probing
2.The salvage is used to go into rigs for friends and corpies
3.(this is good) some missions I now fly into the pilot will abandon the wrecks for me so I can salvage and loot without consequences. (I love those people)
4.A small percentage of mission runners cry, and squeal and complain and .... and ..... and.... run to mum to get them to have CCP change the rules for them (that always makes me laugh)
5.Profit
So therefore this profession that I maintain with my corp and allies makes us the worst possible players because there is an ingame function which we perform to help others?
The solution has been promoted many times to players who dislike being scanned down and, for the umpteenth time now they are;
-Mission in a less populated area
-Mission in low sec so you can KOS
-Add equipment to your ship to make yourself harder to scan down
-Add a tractor beam / salvager to your ship (yes DPS goes down but you get your salvage on the fly during the mission)
-Start a second account that can fly into the mission with you to salvage
-Get 1 of the 6 people in your corp to help salvage your mission while you run it
-Join an alliance of salvage monkeyÆs who can join in on your mission and split the salvage profit
-Shoot the wrecks before the Professional Mission Running Salvager gets to the wrecks
-DonÆt run missions. Move to low sec or get involved in a war or something else that doesnÆt involve missions with a salvage component.
-Invite the mission salvager to your fleet to assist you (or some other function)
-Read a good Mills and Boon book and never play EVE again
So in conclusion, there is no need to change the rules, we have a mini profession that is working as intended by the devs, and we have enough different solutions for those who dislike people salvage wrecks in missions. Therefore we should really not have this threads cluttering up the forums anymore, but alas, some people canÆt resist it.
M
|
XXSketchxx
Gallente
Remote Soviet Industries
|
Posted - 2010.01.19 22:52:00 -
[57]
Originally by: Marguerite Antiki
The solution
....never play EVE again
M
Should be the only solution for anyone who whines about ninja salvagers.
_____________________________________________
-Sketch, Certified Pharmacist
Need a Boost?
|
JordanParey
Minmatar
Suddenly Ninjas
|
Posted - 2010.01.19 23:07:00 -
[58]
Originally by: Rhuskel
DAM wrong.
"Welcome to the Hoover Dam."
"hmmhmmheh, is this a Goddamn?"
|
Srialia
Suddenly Ninjas
Tear Extraction And Reclamation Service
|
Posted - 2010.01.20 04:01:00 -
[59]
Originally by: Rhuskel
firstly, OMG lol. $10 dollar bills and fishes lol.
ok ninja salvaging is it right or wrong?
its DAM wrong. the abandon wreck feature allows pilots to donate wrecks and cans to who ever takes them.
Hmm. That's a nice feature, the "abandon wreck" feature. The other feature that's nice is the "I salvaged that wreck before you did and now all the stuff is in my cargo hold" feature. Salvage first, it's within your power.
Also, how can ninja salvaging be wrong? I make money. I make carebears cry. Two for the price of one. It feels so right. ^_^
|
Aqriue
|
Posted - 2010.01.20 07:13:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Twiddle****
Ninja salvaging is awesome, best isk/hour there is for a new player.
Keep doing it, eventually that best "isk/hour will" will be destroyed by everyone doing it and that time spent training probing skills could of been better spent training support skills and running your own missions for the bounty. Alloyed bars are about 150k in Didoxie last I checked few days ago, down from 200k just before Dominion. Have 80 sitting in my hangar there and the price has dropped enough that I haven't salvaged a mission since christmas because I can spend more time blitzing for lp/bounty then going back.
|
|
|
Marguerite Antiki
ANZAC ALLIANCE
IT Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.01.20 07:32:00 -
[61]
Originally by: Aqriue
Originally by: Twiddle****
Ninja salvaging is awesome, best isk/hour there is for a new player.
Keep doing it, eventually that best "isk/hour will" will be destroyed by everyone doing it and that time spent training probing skills could of been better spent training support skills and running your own missions for the bounty. Alloyed bars are about 150k in Didoxie last I checked few days ago, down from 200k just before Dominion. Have 80 sitting in my hangar there and the price has dropped enough that I haven't salvaged a mission since christmas because I can spend more time blitzing for lp/bounty then going back.
Thank you - I will keep doing it as it benefits those around and affiliated with me. As for the price drop on trit bars, thats just supply and demand, move some where else and the cost is different - therefore I doubt it will be reduced to 50k isk per bar.Just means supply / demand in that area has shifted.
|
Vaerah Vahrokha
Minmatar
Brutor tribe
|
Posted - 2010.01.20 08:03:00 -
[62]
Quote:
I support a profession where myself, friends and corp mates take our time to clean up salvage in missions (our own and other players) so that it goes towards making Trimark Pumps (and other rigs) for our own players.
Also, notice that this is not something that IT Alliance dictates or forbids as they are a PvP Alliance where individuals earn a living with their own ways.
When I played with them (had to leave due to severe RL time constraints) we'd mission, gate camp, generally pew pew, mined, plexed... and some also ninja salvaged.
Quote:
- Add a tractor beam / salvager to your ship (yes DPS goes down but you get your salvage on the fly during the mission)
This is really practical only for marauders or for those with a tank good enough to aggro everything in one spot, the 20km range for the tractor makes it impossible to efficiently gather the wrecks sitting a bit off.
Quote:
Keep doing it, eventually that best "isk/hour will" will be destroyed by everyone doing it and that time spent training probing skills could of been better spent training support skills and running your own missions for the bounty.
Tip: they don't do it for the isk/hour, but for the tears/hour. You can't deplete them.
Quote:
Alloyed bars are about 150k in Didoxie last I checked few days ago, down from 200k just before Dominion
It's not some dozens of ninjas doing this. It's the hugely slashed down requirement of materials for the new small and medium rigs (hint: medium cargo hold rig).
-
Auditing and consulting
Before asking for investors, please read
http://tinyurl.com/n5ys4h and
http://tinyurl.com/lrg4oz
|
Winterjack
|
Posted - 2010.01.20 10:09:00 -
[63]
Originally by: Vaerah Vahrokha
Tip: they don't do it for the isk/hour, but for the tears/hour. You can't deplete them.
You could, if the people grew up.
Just move on, there will be other missions and sure as hell other wrecks.
It might be annoying but hey. Stuff happens.
|
Wet Ferret
|
Posted - 2010.01.20 14:58:00 -
[64]
Originally by: Srialia
Hmm. That's a nice feature, the "abandon wreck" feature.
It's actually rubbish because it can't be set to default. Why would I even waste my time going through a right click menu to do something that cannot benefit me by any stretch of the imagination?
Originally by: Aqriue
Originally by: Twiddle****
Ninja salvaging is awesome, best isk/hour there is for a new player.
Keep doing it, eventually that best "isk/hour will" will be destroyed by everyone doing it and that time spent training probing skills could of been better spent training support skills and running your own missions for the bounty. Alloyed bars are about 150k in Didoxie last I checked few days ago, down from 200k just before Dominion. Have 80 sitting in my hangar there and the price has dropped enough that I haven't salvaged a mission since christmas because I can spend more time blitzing for lp/bounty then going back.
So basically, having more missioners is a sure way to make mission loot and salvage more valuable? Errr...
But, yeah. These forums seriously need some indicator that the post has ended and the sig has started.
|
GavinCapacitor
|
Posted - 2010.01.20 15:58:00 -
[65]
Originally by: iioki
Edited by: iioki on 17/01/2010 14:14:58
CCP should stop ninja slavaging, but Ninja salvaging works just fine the way it is
Indeed.
|
Guillieme Lohran
|
Posted - 2010.01.20 16:39:00 -
[66]
Got ninja'd by a guy in a Loki. Obviously hoping I would take a shot at him but hey, if he wants to spend half a billion ISK to get a couple armor plates, be my guest.
|
Riedle
Minmatar
Raptus Regalitor
Black Legion.
|
Posted - 2010.01.20 23:10:00 -
[67]
This just in - EVE is not a single player game.
More at 11
|
Freya's Valkyrie
|
Posted - 2010.01.20 23:15:00 -
[68]
Am I correct in thinking that you cant take matters into your own hands without Concord intervening?
|
Julia Venatrix
|
Posted - 2010.01.20 23:22:00 -
[69]
Originally by: Freya's Valkyrie
Am I correct in thinking that you cant take matters into your own hands without Concord intervening?
Correct, as long as the ninja only salvages and doesn't touch loot. Ninjas are carebears.
---
Some days you are the pigeon, and some the statue. |
Sideron
|
Posted - 2010.01.21 00:14:00 -
[70]
If a Ninja Salvager appears in my mission i just shoot all wrecks. I'm ok with bounty and LP, if he is ok with nothing he could follow the whole day. |
|
|
Gwen Ingolffson
|
Posted - 2010.01.21 19:21:00 -
[71]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod
1 Take X alts.
2 Run missions until you are in Recon 3/3
3 Be a sitting duck in your toxic cloud
4 LOLZ ninja frigs explosions
Like anyone other than a halfwit would fall for that.
Respectable ninjas always do a dscan at the gate to see if there's any wrecks beyond.
If not, they move on and don't become candidates for the 2010 Ninja Darwin Awards.
Because there's always more mission sites.
I had a chap actually deploy 5 mining drone II's (which have an enormous signature) by a recon 3 gate in an obvious attempt at ninja baiting. I took the drones home with me and giggled.
|
Gwen Ingolffson
|
Posted - 2010.01.21 19:26:00 -
[72]
Originally by: Kaian Voskhod
When i'm bored doing L4
I suicide gank probe frigs. It's amazing how they yell about 1-2 mil ship.
What do Ninja hate else? Warping In a 3/3 recon. Very funny too.
They seem to dislike my salvaging tengu because they can't speed more than the wreck neither than my ship. so it's quite GAME OVER for them (if i don't prefer to warp out and come back with my suicide gank toy - yeah i won't salvage after just for funny vengeance).
Please tell me where you mission.
I'm already 1-0 vs. a suicide gank CNR and 1-0 against a T2 Drake (both in my Vigil). I'd love to add burned chunks of your "toy" to the wall of my den. :)
|
Gwen Ingolffson
|
Posted - 2010.01.21 19:42:00 -
[73]
Also -
Make wrecks scannable. We can already scan down pirate battlefields, why not player?
But gosh, what's next? Ban gate camping and war decs?
|
Wandering Hobo
Gallente
|
Posted - 2010.01.22 07:42:00 -
[74]
I seem to recall when salvaging was implemented the wreck had to be looted first so you couldn't ninja but it was annoying as hell and sucked so horribly that it was changed to the way it is today and it is all good and everything is right in the universe. |
Danks
Caldari
Fat Angry Toe Tappin Inbreds
|
Posted - 2010.01.22 17:03:00 -
[75]
Protip: there are coporations other than the Caldari Navy you can mission for. Many of them have excellent agents far away from the hubs where you'll never see a ninja. Problem solved.
|
Krinthe
Gallente
The Scope
|
Posted - 2010.01.22 18:12:00 -
[76]
I said it once before, so why not, I'll say it again.....
If the pilot was any good at all at Ninja'ing, the mission runner would never know he was there. PERIOD!!!
Only reason this has become a problem is because too many people out there in EVE "think" they are good Ninja'ers when in reality, they are not. Just because you get the loot doesnt make you "good" at it.
IMO, it is due to shallow written GUIDES which have contributed to the epidemic of Ninja'ers. To a newbie pilot, reading one of these guides (yes, ive read them myself) leads you to believe in quick n easy isk with little to no risk. The guides tell you how the mechanics of how it works. So, to a newbie pilot who has a very thin wallet, this is gold to them cause they WANT and NEED that bigger ship, that extra implant.
So, who is really to blame here? The newbie pilot who just wants to gain isk as quickly as he can or the person who wrote the guide on how to do it? EVE is too complex for someone to just go out and do this all on their own when they are new, so Id have to say nearly ALL newbie Ninja'ers read a guide on how to do it at some point prior to actually doing it.
Or.....
Is it the guys fault who is whining about Ninja'ers when they knew FULL WELL that EVE is a cut throat game?
Perhaps a little of both???
A 10th of all I earn I keep for myself. |
Violet Serena
|
Posted - 2010.01.22 23:10:00 -
[77]
Originally by: Banana Torres
Originally by: Tippia
Why not? Becauseà Originally by: NaveTheGreat
ccp you have got to give us the kill rights
No they don't. Why would they have to?
According to CCP, Eve is a PvP game.
It would seem to me that making the ninja looter killable adds another way to PvP, so would fit in with CCP's stated intent.
Ding, FTW! Of course, one could counter-argue that if you wanted max realism, stick to 0.0. Still, I can't fathom adding a "who killed me" pointer to the wreck would be some kind of technical challenge, perhaps with a timer, perhaps with a range such that if you leave that local space. Details are left as an exercise.
|
|
|
| |
|
| Pages: 1 2 3 :: [one page] |