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Oddsodz
The Royal Dynasty
0
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Posted - 2011.09.20 15:37:00 -
[1] - Quote
I am still new to the game so please excuse my naivety (only been playing 6 months or so)
So this is the scenario. You have a nice 5 ship gang out on a roam in low/0.0 looking for targets. You find one. You go after it. Bingo!! He lights a cyno and a Super CAP ship with drops on your head. (yes this has happened to me). Now the 5 ship gang has no way to beat that (and righty so). But the points is. Carriers and Super Carriers are now used at the drop of a hat. they are far to common on the field. What should be a nice fight turns into a "HA HA YOU HAVE NO Carriers, you suck".
So I was thinking, It would be nice if there was a new module that say can only be fitted to a FORCE RECON (or something else) ship that would Cyno jam the system (Covert Cynos would still work) for a short period of time. Lets say 2 minutes. Or even make it a 2 or 3 ship job. Lets say 3 for now. So you would have 3 ships that would go and hide in the system. And they would each light a "Cyno Jammer". Now the game mechanics of this would mean that when a ship lights a "Portable CYNO JAMMER" It would have to stay still for that time period much like when a player lights a normal cyno. He is stuck in space and is unable to move or cloak. So he would be vulnerable. There also should be a heavy fuel system for this new module. Much like "liquid ozone" is needed for cynos. Just so you can limit the amount of "Portable CYNO JAMMER" fuel you carry.
Now for the counter. I Don't want to see the end of the Carrier hot drop. So a new module would be needed for the Carriers so that it could break a "Portable CYNO JAMMER" block. Now this module would be for Carriers only. Not Super Carriers. This module would be chance based. Meaning that if he tries to jump. He has a chance percentage of locking onto the the friendly cyno. The game mechanics for this would need to be sorted by somebody far smarter than me. As I have never owned a Carrier.
Lets move on to the Pros and Cons.
The Pros.
Small gangs will now able to go and have fights and not worry so much about "Hot drop o'clock"
Carriers would not be the end all of small gang warfare. They can still get on grid. Just not every time.
Carriers would be less effective as they have to mount a slot for breaking the "Portable CYNO JAMMER"
Would promote roles for BlackOps ships as they can still jump into a "Portable CYNO JAMMER" jammed system.
The Cons.
Would see the end of the Super Carrier hot drop. Up to a point (find the "Portable CYNO JAMMER" and destroy them and you can still get Super Carriers on grid.
Far more planning needed for big fleets ops.
I Have no idea what to do about dreadnoughts or Titans. They would end up as as just home guards for the big low/0.0 alliances.
Now I am sure they is much more to consider here. Far more then my small experiences of Eve can tell me.
So please feel free to add to this idea. Be it good or bad. Reasons for and against are all welcome.
Oddsodz |
Guy Delbane
House of El
0
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Posted - 2011.09.20 15:55:00 -
[2] - Quote
First off, even though there may be some validity in trying to limit the hotdrops, there are at least as many things speaking for not doing it.
On a side note, a cyno jammer works by preventing the activation of a cyno-field all together, not by preventing something from jumping to an active cyno-field.
Meaning that your idea would allow anyone who wants to take over a given system to Jump in their own capital fleet, and prevent the defenders from entering the field, now in the spirit of warfare. having to at least to some extent put the defender at an advantage, this is just not a good idea.
As for small gangs being hotdropped, it won't really matter either that you could block a system with 3 ships or more, as if you only have 5 people, setting aside for jamming, would significantly limit your dps, and more than likely only result in the loss of the 3 jamming ships. |
Oddsodz
The Royal Dynasty
0
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Posted - 2011.09.20 16:08:00 -
[3] - Quote
The above is with ruff numbers of ships. Does not have to be 3 ships. Could be just 1. That would all need to be balanced and tested.
This is also a "NEW" module. So in theroy would not work the same way as the current "Cyno Jammers" do.
They also only last for 2 minutes. ( again would need to be tested for game balanceing). And with a high fuel depndncey.
So a definding fleet would not have to wait too long to get on grid. And also like I have posted. There is still the chance of getting stuff on grid anyway. Just not 100% of the time.
But please do keep on with the postings. It will help work out what is good and what is bad |
tankus2
Endless Destruction
Destructive OuTcaSts
3
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Posted - 2011.09.20 18:49:00 -
[4] - Quote
the idea behind a cyno jump is as follows:
ship A lights a cyno beacon in the system ship B wants to go
ship B activates their jump drive and arrives at point.
so what your module would do, as Guy has said, prevent the cyno beacon from even activating, thus preventing the capital ship from jumping in. This would mean that the ship activating the cyno needs the anti-cyno jammer module to defeat the cyno jammer.
actually, the concept of an anti-cyno jammer would help break stalemates in 0.0 all on its own:
A 100+ man gang drops into a cynojammed system and lights cyno beacons thanks to the anti-cyno jammer. Even if the opposing side has 500+ battleships in that one system... |
Oddsodz
The Royal Dynasty
0
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Posted - 2011.09.20 21:27:00 -
[5] - Quote
tankus2 wrote:
A 100+ man gang drops into a cynojammed system and lights cyno beacons thanks to the anti-cyno jammer. Even if the opposing side has 500+ battleships in that one system...
I think the idea of BlackOps was ment to do that anyway. But due to cost of ships and the long skll train. That has not worked out. Also the lack of logi support you can bring with a BlackOps fleet rules out this as a stand up option unless you can field a 500+ ship blob of BlackOps.
What I am trying to do is get a point where Carriers and Super Carriers are not used as a 1 stop shop for all small gang warfare.
This "New" "Portable CYNO JAMMER" system would not replace the current way or modules. Just reduce the amount of Carriers that get used in this manner.
And only for a short time. Like i said 2 minutis. If your gang/definding fleet can hold out for that time. then you can jump whatever you like. It's just a way of reduceing the amount of Carriers hot drops |
King Rothgar
Autocannons Anonymous
6
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Posted - 2011.09.20 21:36:00 -
[6] - Quote
The idea of portable cyno jammers has been tossed around many times and I rather like the idea. However, system wide is far too powerful. The more reasonable proposal I've seen is on grid or a 250km range. It keeps them from hotdropping you, but it doesn't stop them from cynoing to the nearest celestial and then warping to you. It gives you a minute or so to respond rather than poof and 5 seconds later 20x SC's have you pointed. |
Sphit Ker
Dreddit
Test Alliance Please Ignore
3
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Posted - 2011.09.21 11:09:00 -
[7] - Quote
Hi. I see your point but I must stress mine: You have to wear your opponent`s shoes.
How would you like it? |
Oddsodz
The Royal Dynasty
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 18:06:00 -
[8] - Quote
Sphit Ker wrote:Hi. I see your point but I must stress mine: You have to wear your opponent`s shoes.
How would you like it?
I Agree, that is why I said that there must be a counter, And that is that it only last for 2 minites and it has a haevy fuel load.
Plus the carrire module is chanced based. It may still jump on the 1st go of trying. So it can still hot drop. Just not always 100% of the time will it make it on the 1st go of asking |
Joe Risalo
State War Academy
Caldari State
11
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Posted - 2011.09.23 18:29:00 -
[9] - Quote
Limit the portable cnyo jammers to the grid they're in.
That way, the oppsing team still has the option to drop a cnyo off grid to bring in a fleet.
This gives the jamming team time to flee or blow something up before the supers get there.
This clears the problem with hot drops but still allows supers to go into those said systems.
A cyno jammer that jams the entire system is way too OP, just limit it to the grid. |
Oddsodz
The Royal Dynasty
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 19:42:00 -
[10] - Quote
Another way to think about this whole hot droping game would be to make it not so much a module that you have t use and fuel. But maybe a new module that you use to "Target" and lock much like say a sensor damper or a ECM jammer. Have a "targeted Cyno Jammer". Make it have some silly requerments and only fit to low tank ing ships.
But that is a whole new idea. Somebody else can deal with that.
Would be nice if some form of new space was opend up like 0.0 or Low but had some sort of ship restricion. Lets say some new Jove space that would only alow Battleships and below in. And i don't mean Wormholes, I mean normal space that anybody can fly too with gates and so on. |
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Solinuas
Beyond Evil and Good
1
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Posted - 2011.09.23 20:02:00 -
[11] - Quote
lol ill just stick to my WH's, try to get a capital blob THERE, its really the only place where you can get good PVP without retarted hotdropping.
But having a bit of experience myself i like the anti cyno idea, but the real question is , what happens if they lit the cyno first, will your anti cyno disable it, even if so, will you light it before the caps jump? those are two key things to consider |
Oddsodz
The Royal Dynasty
0
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Posted - 2011.09.23 23:22:00 -
[12] - Quote
Solinuas wrote:lol ill just stick to my WH's, try to get a capital blob THERE, its really the only place where you can get good PVP without retarted hotdropping.
But having a bit of experience myself i like the anti cyno idea, but the real question is , what happens if they lit the cyno first, will your anti cyno disable it, even if so, will you light it before the caps jump? those are two key things to consider
No, the Jammers (I feel) would need to be in place 1st. |
Mirima Thurander
Deventer Exploration An Acquisition
11
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Posted - 2011.09.24 02:43:00 -
[13] - Quote
give me this, but on a no cynos on the grid the cyno jamers in.
If you want you still get your cap ships but now you see them coming |
Oddsodz
The Royal Dynasty
0
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Posted - 2011.09.24 16:21:00 -
[14] - Quote
Mirima Thurander wrote:give me this, but on a no cynos on the grid the cyno jamers in.
If you want you still get your cap ships but now you see them coming
Thinking about it. I see that most of you like the idea of "On Grid" only and not he whole system. Well that kind of works anyway. Depending on how you setup your fleet. You could jam the whole system buy brinnging more Cyno Jammer ships and putting them all around the system anyway. So the "On Grid" idea works anyway. |
Markus Reese
New Eden Weekly Sentinel
1
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Posted - 2011.09.24 17:42:00 -
[15] - Quote
I kinda like the idea. The on grid would work well to prevent the hiding in deadspace issues. Personally, I feel it would be almost like a battleship style dictor. Fits into that pathway. Being on grid only does prevent the mass hotdrop, but a proper fleet should still be able to get in and do a warp to without putting attackers or defenders at a too large of disadvantage. Best part would be it would be the two way street. Attackers for giving an advantage on a surprize attack, defenders can force the battle lines by combining with bubbles.
Theoretically, this could also seriously alter things like sniping fleets. Possible citing example.
Fleet A has a pos coming out of reinforcement, they can set up the portajam and bubbles. The Fleet B attackers will need to come in remotely meaning that a longer range combat will need to ensue. There would be a few ways to go about it.
1. Fleet B come in en masse, and move to bubbles, Fleet A can use snipers to pick off or station close attack on the bubble border.
2. Fleet B brings in smaller sniper squad with defences to pick off the Fleet A Cynojammers and then light the cyno.
Biggest annoyance is what you know will happen, is the 60 logistics on the bubble jammer. As such, fuel requirements would need to be manditory, and possibly force the ship imobile while jamming? |
Hirana Yoshida
Behavioral Affront
30
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Posted - 2011.09.24 17:45:00 -
[16] - Quote
Just going to quote myself from a recent T3 Frig thread as it "asked" for the same thing:
Hirana Yoshida wrote:Mobile system wide jamming .. broken much?
Look at what is required for the anchored version ... I would even argue that grid wide jamming is broken.
My suggestion: Make it cyno displacement.
- Beacon opens normally, arrivals appear in an area from 25km to a maximum of 100km from cyno ship (12.5km+(17.5km/displacer level).
* Note!: It is maximum, so can happen anywhere between 30km and 100km depending on level (read: it is semi-random).
- Displacer only functions outside of Empire controlled space (ie. null only, otherwise pirate camps will get a massive boost)
- Displacer takes 30 seconds to warm up and has a 5 minute cycle time (ie. first cycle only active for 4.5 minutes), field must be active at time of cyno to affect it.
- Ship fielding displacer suffers the same 'stuck in space' as a ship popping a cyno OR that of a HIC using a bubble and field graphic effect clearly indicates when/if active.
Enough to scatter large hotdrops and make the 1-2 drop a lot more difficult without making it an iWin in counter-drop scenarios.
But hats off for not buying into the "make T3 frigs the same tired tank/spank" .. refreshing to see that there are others who are willing to exit the box.
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Laechyd Eldgorn
draketrain
3
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Posted - 2011.09.24 23:46:00 -
[17] - Quote
all this would be solved if there was just a little delay for cyno activation
why bother with new stuff which will be probably broken somehow :ccp:
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Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1
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Posted - 2011.09.25 09:35:00 -
[18] - Quote
no "mobile cynojammer" is needed in the game.
Hotdrop is a viable tactic to kill a slippy gang and enforce fight on your terms.
If they drop supercapitals on your head, go next time and open a countercyno on them for some batphoned friends -> kill supers -> get awesome killmails |
Oddsodz
The Royal Dynasty
0
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Posted - 2011.09.27 00:47:00 -
[19] - Quote
Robert Caldera wrote:no "mobile cynojammer" is needed in the game.
Hotdrop is a viable tactic to kill a slippy gang and enforce fight on your terms.
If they drop supercapitals on your head, go next time and open a countercyno on them for some batphoned friends -> kill supers -> get awesome killmails
Oh dear. The point here to get small gang warfare back. Right now is always "hot drop o'clock". Everybody and there grandma has a carrier now a days (apart form me lol). When somebody is willing to drop a carrier just too save 1 dommi against 5 battle cruisers. You know it's gone too far. |
Oddsodz
The Royal Dynasty
0
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Posted - 2011.09.27 00:48:00 -
[20] - Quote
Laechyd Eldgorn wrote:all this would be solved if there was just a little delay for cyno activation
why bother with new stuff which will be probably broken somehow :ccp:
You know what. Your right. |
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Bloodpetal
Mimidae Risk Solutions
39
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Posted - 2011.09.27 04:20:00 -
[21] - Quote
Deployable Cyno Jammer would work better - it requires being anchored and onlined to work, much like a mobile warp bubble.
The significant time to online one would deter any assault force to be able to easily deploy a counter-capital strategy - it would have to be in place before hand. Also the range could reach up to 150KM only, so that means that you could still drop caps on the field, just not immediately in the vicinity - they'd have to drop in and warp - giving some time for reaction/repairs/etc and the person who put up the bubble time to defend it.
The mobile cyno jammer would become a tactical asset on the field that can be targeted and removed and become a tactical element to fleet battles - putting it on a ship is too powerful.
NOSTRO AURUM NON EST AURUM VULGI |
Robert Caldera
Caldera Trading and Investment
1
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Posted - 2011.09.27 09:23:00 -
[22] - Quote
Oddsodz wrote:Robert Caldera wrote:no "mobile cynojammer" is needed in the game.
Hotdrop is a viable tactic to kill a slippy gang and enforce fight on your terms.
If they drop supercapitals on your head, go next time and open a countercyno on them for some batphoned friends -> kill supers -> get awesome killmails Oh dear. The point here to get small gang warfare back. Right now is always "hot drop o'clock". Everybody and there grandma has a carrier now a days (apart form me lol). When somebody is willing to drop a carrier just too save 1 dommi against 5 battle cruisers. You know it's gone too far.
if one decides to risk his carrier for a domi, why not? what the f*ck are you whining about?
I've killed already thousands of ships of any kind and roughly experienced players dropping capitals for saving a bs. Its not an issue.
More likely you felt for a cynobait, which is however all fine for itself again. |
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