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Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.01.29 14:25:00 - [1] OK, i'm really ****ed off now... Followed all C&P's advice to avoid gankers.. Iteron IV fully tanked.. Anti-thermal and EM rigs, shield extenders and shield hardeners, I-Stabs for quick align. ATK flying.. (NOT AFK) Still get damn well ganked! This time it hurt....300m worth damnit :( 2010.01.29 14:16:00 Victim: xxxxxx Corp: University of Caille Alliance: NONE Faction: NONE Destroyed: Iteron Mark IV System: Juunigaishi Security: 0.6 Damage Taken: 2866 Involved parties: Name: xxxxx (laid the final blow) Security: -2.8 Corp: Ashen Lion Mining and Production Consortium Alliance: Aeternus. Faction: NONE Ship: Armageddon Weapon: Mega Afocal Pulse Maser I Damage Done: 2866 Destroyed items: Republic Fleet EMP S, Qty: 100000 (Cargo) Inertia Stabilizers II, Qty: 2 Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction, Qty: 2 Medium Anti-Thermal Screen Reinforcer I, Qty: 2 Republic Fleet EMP M, Qty: 110000 (Cargo) Dropped items: Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot M, Qty: 20000 (Cargo) Republic Fleet Fusion M, Qty: 50610 (Cargo) Republic Fleet Phased Plasma L, Qty: 20000 (Cargo) Republic Fleet Fusion L, Qty: 27349 (Cargo) Inertia Stabilizers II Republic Fleet Titanium Sabot S, Qty: 14000 (Cargo) Magnetic Scattering Amplifier I Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Republic Fleet EMP L, Qty: 20000 (Cargo) So balls to all you guys who say ganking can be avoided (still 6-7 days away from t2 indys) Laugh/Flame on.......
Gibbo3771	Posted - 2010.01.29 14:29:00 - [2] why didnt you just WAIT till you had a blockade runner? are you completely ****ed, * lol
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.01.29 14:33:00 - [3] gotta buy a plex b4 i will get blockade runner
Nimsir	Posted - 2010.01.29 14:38:00 - [4] Originally by: Ravenclaw2kk Damage Taken: 2866 Seems to me you didn't have it tanked at all. Its pretty easy to get a Iteron IV to 6000 hp, with about 14k effective HP while not killing your cargo space.
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.01.29 14:40:00 - [5] look at the KM.. it is tanked 3 x MSE 3x resistance 1x Extender (Thermal was my highest resist, next being EM) Alpha is king of ganking
Nimsir	Posted - 2010.01.29 14:49:00 - [6] but no damage control II, and slack EM resist. Next time go like this: DC II Whatever Whatever MSE II x3 INV II Whatever Anti-EM screen I Defence Field Ext x2 Also don't carry that much isk value in a t1 hauler.
Nuts Nougat Sniggerdly Pandemic Legion	Posted - 2010.01.29 14:49:00 - [7] Originally by: Ravenclaw2kk look at the KM.. it is tanked 3 x MSE 3x resistance 1x Extender (Thermal was my highest resist, next being EM) Alpha is king of ganking Killmails are currently bugged and show only the last gun (or volley if your guns are stacked) damage if you kill a target very quickly. :ccp: ---
Ran Khanon Amarr Vengeance Innovations	Posted - 2010.01.29 14:51:00 - [8] Don't know if it is doable for you, cargo wise, but I fly a tanked BC if I have to haul really expensive stuff. Using a T1 indy for anything but plain trash is dangerous nowadays. If you make your own battleship you can even make a profit from insurance payouts due to low mineral prices, which leaves only the security hit to deter someone from suicide ganking anything. I heard of people getting ganked for 25 mil + cargo's.
Trisa Li	Posted - 2010.01.29 16:20:00 - [9] Originally by: Ravenclaw2kk OK, i'm really ****ed off now... Followed all C&P's advice to avoid gankers.. So balls to all you guys who say ganking can be avoided (still 6-7 days away from t2 indys) Laugh/Flame on....... Apparently you missed that bit about not transporting 300m isk of cargo in a 300k isk ship. But hisec is safe, right?
James Tritanius	Posted - 2010.01.29 16:23:00 - [10] Yeah, I agree. 300mil worth of stuff in a T1 indy is asking to be ganked, tbh.

Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.01.29 16:24:00 - [11] Originally by: Nimsir but no damage control II, and slack EM resist. Next time go like this: DC II Whatever Whatever MSE II x3 INV II Whatever Anti-EM screen I Defence Field Ext x2 Also don't carry that much isk value in a t1 hauler. I highly Doubt it would have made any difference at all Just so the C7P community know... This topic has a dual purpose.. The first is to cry, of course. The second is to educate - Nothing it safe in a T1 hauler at all, tanked or untanked, ATK or AFK. I just regret listening to the community and wasting many hours making pointless jumps ATK when i coulda done it all afk with the same result.
Syringe Incura	Posted - 2010.01.29 16:26:00 - [12] I don't see anything here about using a scout... Besides, I kinda like the cut of your jib, sailor... --------- War isn't the answer. However, the objective isn't to provide answers rather than eliminate the question.
ACE81	Posted - 2010.01.29 16:26:00 - [13] Risk vs reward go both ways m8 sorry to her it didnt work for ya but thats why its risk vs reward better luck next time
Smartus Maximus Gallente Somali Coastguard Authority	Posted - 2010.01.29 16:28:00 - [14] Are you dumb? Of course you can't transport stuff without risk. You can take steps to minimize risk, but you can never eliminate it. Even with a T2 blockade runner, ATK, covops cloak, WTZ, there is still a chance that you'll get ganked. Valuable goods: +risk fragile T1 hauler: +risk Tank: -risk Inertial Stabs: -risk ATK & WTZ: -risk Cloak+MWD: -risk
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.01.29 16:30:00 - [15] Edited by: Ravenclaw2kk on 29/01/2010 16:33:20 Originally by: ACE81 Risk vs reward go both ways m8 sorry to her it didnt work for ya but thats why its risk vs reward better luck next time Fair enough, but no real risk on the gankers side. Originally by: Syringe I don't see anything here about using a scout... So you need to dual box to haul? Originally by: Smartus Maximus Are you dumb? Of course you can't transport stuff without risk. You can take steps to minimize risk, but you can never eliminate it. Even with a T2 blockade runner, ATK, covops cloak, WTZ, there is still a chance that you'll get ganked. Valuable goods: +risk fragile T1 hauler: +risk Tank: -risk Inertial Stabs: -risk ATK & WTZ: -risk Cloak+MWD: -risk Not dumb, but gullable (sp?) i guess...same thing? Too many people giving out false info.. Ahh well 7 days t2 indy... bigger tank...wish i could put my account on hold and train the skill in the background till it's done
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.01.29 16:41:00 - [16] brotips: scout your hauler use a tII transport fully tanked use a bs / hac for whatever fits their cargo take less per run set up contracts where you cant handle the risk sometimes ** happens you dont need uber high sp to make it as a trader, I injected an uber noob with 500m and in 4 lazy** months I had 8b out of it scout your hauler
Midge Mo'yb Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.29 16:44:00 - [17] Edited by: Midge Mo''yb on 29/01/2010 16:45:25 i love aeternus in the butt soo, your hauling alt is Maria Yumeno huh? locator agents assemble!
Syringe Incura	Posted - 2010.01.29 16:49:00 - [18] Originally by: Ravenclaw2kk So you need to dual box to haul? That's what corpmates are for mate ;) Besides, I kinda like the cut of your jib, sailor... --------- War isn't the answer. However, the objective isn't to provide answers rather than eliminate the question.
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.01.29 17:14:00 - [19] Originally by: Gladys Pank brotips: scout your hauler use a tII transport fully tanked use a bs / hac for whatever fits their cargo take less per run set up contracts where you cant handle the risk sometimes ** happens you dont need uber high sp to make it as a trader, I injected an uber noob with 500m and in 4 lazy months I had 8b out of it scout your hauler Good advice, thx. Markets are a bit volatile to use contracts..but its worth a go.. time to train Gallente BS up i guess, i'll see what EFT gives me for EHP with a t2 hauler b4 i do. Less per run is a good idea, time is an issue tho. Originally by:** Midge Mo'yb Edited by: Midge Mo''yb on 29/01/2010 16:45:25 i love aeternus in the butt soo, your hauling alt is Maria Yumeno huh? locator agents assemble! Damn.. i knew giving battle-clinic my API was a mistake..lol. Be a man..come after my main ... but don;t expect anything more than insured t1 ships with a few t2 mods... (not a general invite to c&p..just Midge ) Yea, scouting works? There are sensor boosted ships on every damn gate nowadays to know when u r gonna get ganked. Too many active war-decs to be alt-tabbing with my main or having a corp-mate help. Another issue is i kinda only get an hour or so on each day and i gotta try and hide it from the trouble and strife..so i have eve in a corner of my screen ready to click off..can't be having 2 clients on at the same time. All in all it's not a great loss, miniscule in the scale of things...just frustrating as ever.
Midge Mo'yb Antares Shipyards Phalanx Alliance	Posted - 2010.01.29 18:10:00 - [20] tbh rule of thumb, if the the cargos worth more than the ship, yourdoing it wrong imo :P -----------------------------------------------

Kerfira Audaces Fortuna Iuvat	Posted - 2010.01.29 19:09:00 - [21] If you go through suicide gank central with 300m in a 1m paper-thin ship (all T1 haulers are, no matter how you tank it), you sort of deserve to lose it... That much value in a T1 hauler, you should have split it in 6 trips (or more) at least for the most dangerous part of that pipe... Even if there hadn't been insurance, you'd STILL have been worth ganking.... Also, no matter whether you use IStabs or not, there's not such thing as 'fast align' for an IT4... Originally by: CCP Wrangler EVE isn't designed to just look like a cold, dark and harsh world, it's designed to be a cold, dark and harsh world.
Taram Caldar Noir. Noir. Mercenary Group	Posted - 2010.01.29 21:05:00 - [22] Edited by: Taram Caldar on 29/01/2010 21:05:53 Edited by: Taram Caldar on 29/01/2010 21:05:23 Seriously Flying 300mil around in T1 haulers is just stupid. Buy a freaking transport. If you can fly a Itty 4 you can fly a Occator in less than 20 days. Get one, tank it, fly AT THE KEYBOARD because even an occator can get ganked if you are afk. And quit *****ing about being suicide ganked. Even with 9000ehp a single tempest with nothing but stock T1 fittings can 1 shot you. Market Alerts Mailing List
FunzzeR Death of Virtue MeatSausage EXPRESS	Posted - 2010.01.29 21:08:00 - [23] All of this has happened before. All of this will happen again. PRAISE THE SCOTTISH FOLD!! THEIR WILL SHALL BE DONE!!
Foxfarm	Posted - 2010.01.29 21:10:00 - [24] Password protected containers.
Pirate God	Posted - 2010.01.29 21:16:00 - [25] Edited by: Pirate God on 29/01/2010 21:16:42 no amount of tank would have saved you. cloaked haulers only if you move valuable stuff. in case people arent aware of it, your ship loadout can also be scanned. we know exactly what gank we need to bring to break your tank. (you might also want to stop taking hauling advice from a forum section filled with pirates.) edit- password protected cans do no good. they can be scooped and repackaged.
Liz Laser Deep Core Mining Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.29 21:41:00 - [26] 300 million in a t1 hauler was your first mistake.
Herty The Sexy Carebear Boredom Convention	Posted - 2010.01.29 21:45:00 - [27] nice cloak o wait....
CornerStoner	Posted - 2010.01.29 22:15:00 - [28] With that much in your cargo it was bound to happen. No scout = gankage. Next time consider hiring a freighter service to do your work for you until you can afford a freighter.
Bonafyde Tarnak inc. The Kadeshi	Posted - 2010.01.29 23:05:00 - [29] I love tears __________
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.01.29 23:46:00 - [30] yea, i didn't think 300m was all that much to haul ATK. Courier contracts from now on then. I will learn to play eve properly, damnit.

Aqriue	Posted - 2010.01.30 01:14:00 - [31] you got ganked for faction ammo ? You pirates must be getting desperate. I thought they only went after high value modules or freighters full of T2 ships (seen general freight containers marked "T2 intercept x 48" floating about). I have carried upwards of 150 million in faction ammo (usually stop my spending after 50) a few times down from jita and never got ganked. Last time I was ganked was for a retriever BP copy (they thought it was a BPO, even gave me my stuff back ) when I was a newb auto piloting. never did that again, except in a frig shuttle.
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.01.30 01:47:00 - [32] Originally by: Aqriue you got ganked for faction ammo ? You pirates must be getting desperate. I thought they only went after high value modules or freighters full of T2 ships (seen general freight containers marked "T2 intercept x 48" floating about). I have carried upwards of 150 million in faction ammo (usually stop my spending after 50) a few times down from jita and never got ganked. Last time I was ganked was for a retriever BP copy (they thought it was a BPO, even gave me my stuff back ) when I was a newb auto piloting. never did that again, except in a frig shuttle. I have been ganked for 20m worth of faction ammo b4.. a couple of weeks ago actually
Clair Bear Ursine Research and Production	Posted - 2010.01.30 04:45:00 - [33] Originally by: Ravenclaw2kk I have been ganked for 20m worth of faction ammo b4.. a couple of weeks ago actually Making friends and influencing people... May I suggest the following fit for hauling in highsec? Megathron 1x Improved Cloaking Device II 2x LSE II 1x Invuln II 1x MWD II 1x DCU II 2x 1600mm RT plates 2x EANM II 2x expanded cargohold II 3x trimark armor pump This can cloak/mwd trick, haul about 1k m^3 worth of valuables, and with just a hair short of 124,000 EHP is up there with freighters and orcas for # of people required to gank you. I've hauled a bil or two worth of goods with this retrofitted pvp mega just fine. And in summary, bigger blobs are the answer. Now what was the question?
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.01.30 05:15:00 - [34] Originally by: Clair Bear Originally by: Ravenclaw2kk I have been ganked for 20m worth of faction ammo b4.. a couple of weeks ago actually Making friends and influencing people... May I suggest the following fit for hauling in highsec? Megathron 1x Improved Cloaking Device II 2x LSE II 1x Invuln II 1x MWD II 1x DCU II 2x 1600mm RT plates 2x EANM II 2x expanded cargohold II 3x trimark armor pump This can cloak/mwd trick, haul about 1k m^3 worth of valuables, and with just a hair short of 124,000 EHP is up there with freighters and orcas for # of people required to gank you. I've hauled a bil or two worth of goods with this retrofitted pvp mega just fine. thx for the suggestion.. but i don't transport small high value items.. Usually just junk and opportunist stuff. Contracts seem to be working just fine atm tho
Dregek Pilots Of Honour Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.01.30 08:09:00 - [35] OMGZ :idea: dont ap with expensive **** lol
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.01.30 08:46:00 - [36] Originally by: Dregek OMGZ :idea: dont ap with expensive **** lol OMGZ :idea: read the op.
Jamyl TashMurkon Amarr	Posted - 2010.01.30 10:34:00 - [37] Originally by: Ravenclaw2kk Originally by: Dregek OMGZ :idea: dont ap with expensive **** lol OMGZ :idea: read the op. OMGZ u mad?
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.30 11:15:00 - [38] Anything over 40-50 mil in a T1 hauler is asking for trouble tbh. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.01.30 12:03:00 - [39] Originally by: Marko Riva Anything over 40-50 mil in a T1 hauler is asking for trouble tbh. Yes, i know now. I just wanted to point out that even atk hauling is not safe these days. It aint that big a hit and will make it back over the weekend, hopefully. Looking at the gankers kb i could see many ganks over 1bn isk, dont feel so bad after seing them. Infact the ganker seems to have close to a trillion isk worth of kills. Must be damn profitable.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.30 12:38:00 - [40] It is whistles

Kitaen	Posted - 2010.01.30 14:09:00 - [41] Can't believe people don't hide their cargo. Cargo scanners can only penetrate one layer, so if you put stuff in a can, they can see in the can. If you put stuff in a courier contract, they can see through the plastic wrap. They can't see through both. Have one of your chars make a courier contract to the one hauling, then put the plastic wrap they get inside a can. Cargo scanner will only show plastic wrap.
Thelma Todd	Posted - 2010.01.30 14:46:00 - [42] The first mistake you made was believing that there was worthwhile advice in C&P. But good for you, for having the stones to post the details of your loss. I see no "tears" in this thread.
S3ND3TH Gallente Pilots Of Honour Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.01.30 15:23:00 - [43] first off, pirate is a blanket term for empire people. pirates sit at empire gates and target newer/empire based people. we are not pirates. just because you are empire based and we shot you does not mean you were attacked by "pirates." anyway, you want to not be ganked? NEVER fly a route in anything unless you have scouted it in a shuttle or a frigate. NEVER NEVER NEVER. NEVER fly a hauler without an escort, or at the very least, never fly a hauler holding more than you can afford to lose if you are flying unescorted. NEVER autopilot through low sec or null sec. ALWAYS set autopilot (destination, do not actually let it fly you) ALWAYS check the star maps and go to the statistics and look at "pilots in system last 30 minutes" "pilots docked and active" and "number of ships destroyed in the last hour". look for problems with your route and adjust accordingly. ALWAYS manually warp to each gate. additional rules apply for null sec, but this will keep you from getting ganked as easily. being ganked is always a possibility no matter where you are. NO WHERE IN EVE IS 100% SAFE. P.S. - i think i saw the pilots seat to that iteron in the alliance hangar if you want it back.
Microsoft Sam Pilots Of Honour	Posted - 2010.01.30 18:13:00 - [44] Originally by: S3ND3TH i think i saw the pilots seat to that iteron in the alliance hangar if you want it back. nope it was extra comfy so ive used it in my pirat.. err.. npcing ship
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.01.30 18:44:00 - [45] Originally by: S3ND3TH first off, pirate is a blanket term for empire people. pirates sit at empire gates and target newer/empire based people. we are not pirates. just because you are empire based and we shot you does not mean you were attacked by "pirates." anyway, you want to not be ganked? NEVER fly a route in anything unless you have scouted it in a shuttle or a frigate. NEVER NEVER NEVER. NEVER fly a hauler without an escort, or at the very least, never fly a hauler holding more than you can afford to lose if you are flying unescorted. NEVER autopilot through low sec or null sec. ALWAYS set autopilot (destination, do not actually let it fly you) ALWAYS check the star maps and go to the statistics and look at "pilots in system last 30 minutes" "pilots docked and active" and "number of ships destroyed in the last hour". look for problems with your route and adjust accordingly. ALWAYS manually warp to each gate. additional rules apply for null sec, but this will keep you from getting ganked as easily. being ganked is always a possibility no matter where you are. NO WHERE IN EVE IS 100% SAFE. P.S. - i think i saw the pilots seat to that iteron in the alliance hangar if you want it back. Huh? No one mentioned pirates. Scout every gate when flying thru hi-sec? The stuff i loast i could afford to lose, just damn annoying as it's the 3rd time in 3 weeks now and i had though flying at the keyboard i would be fine...I'm still kinda new to all this trading lark so some losses are to be expected i guess. I actually did receive some good advice from this thread and have now sorted my problem out fully, i owe someone in here a favour. Looking at the killboards of the peeps that ganked me, i see now there is no possible way to avoid a competent ganker. Lot's of hi-end t1 indys on there with good tanks and what i assume are 1/2 ATK trips...there killboards show a complete lack of t2 hulls tho so if i ever do have to haul anything worth a lot of isk again it's gonna be in a weeks time when i can fly a BR.
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.01.30 18:49:00 - [46] Edited by: Ravenclaw2kk on 30/01/2010 18:50:28 Originally by: Ravenclaw2kk Originally by: S3ND3TH first off, pirate is a blanket term for empire people. pirates sit at empire gates and target newer/empire based people. we are not pirates. just because you are empire based and we shot you does not mean you were attacked by "pirates." anyway, you want to not be ganked? NEVER fly a route in anything unless you have scouted it in a shuttle or a frigate. NEVER NEVER NEVER. NEVER fly a hauler without an escort, or at the very least, never fly a hauler holding more than you can afford to lose if you are flying unescorted. NEVER autopilot through low sec or null sec. ALWAYS set autopilot (destination, do not actually let it fly you) ALWAYS check the star maps and go to the statistics and look at "pilots in system last 30 minutes" "pilots docked and active" and "number of ships destroyed in the last hour". look for problems with your route and adjust accordingly. ALWAYS manually warp to each gate. additional rules apply for null sec, but this will keep you from getting ganked as easily. being ganked is always a possibility no matter where you are. NO WHERE IN EVE IS 100% SAFE. P.S. - i think i saw the pilots seat to that iteron in the alliance hangar if you want it back. Huh? No one mentioned pirates. Scout every gate when flying thru hi-sec? The stuff i loast i could afford to lose, just damn annoying as it's the 3rd time in 3 weeks now and i had though flying at the keyboard i would be fine...I'm still kinda new to all this trading lark so some losses are to be expected i guess. I actually did receive some good advice from this thread and have now sorted my problem out fully, i owe someone in here a favour. Looking at the killboards of the peeps that ganked me, i see now there is no possible way to avoid a competent ganker. Lot's of hi-end t1 indys on there with good tanks and what i assume are 1/2 ATK trips...there killboards show a complete lack of t2 hulls tho so if i ever do have to haul anything worth a lot of isk again it's gonna be in a weeks time when i can fly a BR. I see the pirate comments now, sry, it's getting late here. EDIT - Damn, it is getting late...i thought i pressed edit...not quote :(
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.30 19:07:00 - [47] Someone has an odd and mistaken idea of what are and aren't pirates. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. New projectile damage PDF Alliance creation service
Thanatomania Eternum Noctem Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.01.30 19:45:00 - [48] Blockade runners wont help, we will kill those too.
Ekon Bor Amarr Van Diemen's Demise	Posted - 2010.01.30 20:33:00 - [49] Originally by: S3ND3TH first off, pirate is a blanket term for empire people. pirates sit at empire gates and target newer/empire based people. we are not pirates. just because you are empire based and we shot you does not mean you were attacked by "pirates." I'm confused... - Violencing boats? Check. - Possibility of financial gain for said violencing? Check. - Probably against people who weren't exactly hanging out for pvp at the time, as evidenced by them not being in a pvp ship? Check. Is not pirates how?
Kalnov Gallente Problematique Inc.	Posted - 2010.01.31 00:13:00 - [50] Blockade runners are easy to kill - If you can catch them uncloaked. Use deep space transports. You'll be scanned, and if the gankers bring lots of friends you'll still die, but you'll be perfectly safe from 90% of solo gankers. I'm not sure if you can survive a max skilled tempest/maelstrom gank in .5 though.

Acancagua	Posted - 2010.01.31 01:55:00 - [51] Hell, I've been attacked just carrying 50mil worth of cheap reactants. You have to realize something in Eve. Some people gank, in order to gank. You could have been a random target, they could have picked you out. It's kind of like carjackings in Los Angeles. You don't have to drive a nice car to be carjacked and killed. The moral of the story. PPPPPP. Proper Planning Prevents **** Poor Perfomance. Get a T2 indy. Buy a gun. Learn to use both.
Pirate God	Posted - 2010.01.31 03:29:00 - [52] Originally by: Thanatomania Blockade runners wont help, we will kill those too. No you won't. You can't target it. No bubbles in hisec. show me how.
Thanatomania Eternum Noctem Aeternus.	Posted - 2010.01.31 05:38:00 - [53] Originally by: Pirate God Originally by: Thanatomania Blockade runners wont help, we will kill those too. No you won't. You can't target it. No bubbles in hisec. show me how. 2010.01.17 04:31:00 Victim: High Flyin Corp: 5th Front enterprises Alliance: Chain of Chaos Faction: NONE Destroyed: Viator System: Uedama Security: 0.5 Damage Taken: 4229 Involved parties: Name: Thanatomania (laid the final blow) Security: -1.2 Corp: Eternum Noctem Alliance: Aeternus. Faction: NONE Ship: Megathron Weapon: Anode Mega Neutron Particle Cannon I Damage Done: 2884
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.01.31 07:42:00 - [54] Until the insurance mechanic is balanced, just don't fly industrials, period. You will be ganked empty simply because the asshats have been sitting on the gate for two hours and mommy is telling them its time for bed. So they shoot the next Badger that comes into range just so have have something to brag about the next day. Wait till you are in a blockade runner. Agility rigged, cov ops cloak and with istabs and nanos instead of expanders. And contrary to what Mr. 'we kill Blockade Runners' posted above, it's not likely you will ever even have someone even start a lock on you before you are warping. High or low sec. Really, it's the only way to haul stuff anymore and worth the time it takes to train. Mr Epeen
Fritzman Aliastra	Posted - 2010.01.31 09:01:00 - [55] Edited by: Fritzman on 31/01/2010 09:04:08 Originally by: Mr Epeen Until the insurance mechanic is balanced, just don't fly industrials, period. You will be ganked empty simply because the asshats have been sitting on the gate for two hours and mommy is telling them its time for bed. So they shoot the next Badger that comes into range just so have have something to brag about the next day. Bitter much? Before whining about what suicide gankers do, maybe you should consider it a legit profession in game just as any other? Granted, the insurance aspect needs to be changed so you will get no insurance from actions relating to concord showing up. For me and many others, it's a way to make a living. There's no point in throwing your isk away in ganking empty haulers. Contrary to what everyone seems to believe, it's also not that easy isk after all. It takes a lot of patience to get a target with a high profit probability, very often you need to sit on a gate for 5-10 hours and scan every single ship before something that you can kill and make a good profit out of shows up. Try that for a couple of weeks and let me know how easy it is after all. On top of that, there's the sec status raising grind you have to undergo every couple of weeks just so that you can continue making your living in game. Add to that the growing number of ****ed off pilots with killrights on you that you have to avoid and sometimes lose ships to, and the picture starts becoming more realistic. Easy, huh? No. I've averaged about 1b per kill profit so far from my last 10 kills. I always fit rigs + t2 on my suicide BS, and would have done it even if there was no insurance and the BS cost would be twice as high as it is now. I really hope the insurance gets changed soon, that way people will feel secure about moving in hi sec again with their indies. It will certainly make finding profitable targets a lot easier for me.
Mr Epeen	Posted - 2010.01.31 11:16:00 - [56] Originally by: Fritzman Edited by: Fritzman on 31/01/2010 09:08:37 Edited by: Fritzman on 31/01/2010 09:04:08 Originally by: Mr Epeen Until the insurance mechanic is balanced, just don't fly industrials, period. You will be ganked empty simply because the asshats have been sitting on the gate for two hours and mommy is telling them its time for bed. So they shoot the next Badger that comes into range just so have have something to brag about the next day. Bitter much? Before whining about what suicide gankers do, maybe you should consider it a legit profession in game just as any other? Granted, the insurance aspect needs to be changed so you will get no insurance from actions relating to concord showing up. For me and many others, it's a way to make a living. There's no point in throwing your isk away in ganking empty haulers. Contrary to what everyone seems to believe, it's also not that easy isk after all. It takes a lot of patience to get a target with a high profit probability, very often you need to sit on a gate for 5-10 hours and scan every single ship before something that you can kill and make a good profit out of shows up. Try that for a couple of weeks and let me know how easy it is after all. On top of that, there's the sec status raising grind you have to undergo every couple of weeks just so that you can continue making your living in game. Add to that the growing number of ****ed off pilots with killrights on you that you have to avoid and sometimes lose ships to, and the picture starts becoming more realistic. Easy, huh? No. I've averaged about 1b per kill profit so far from my last 10 kills. I always fit rigs + t2 on my suicide BS. I would keep suicide ganking even if there was no insurance and the BS cost would be twice as high as it is now. I really hope the insurance gets changed soon, that way people will feel secure about moving in hi sec again with their indies. It will certainly make finding profitable targets a lot easier for me. Granted, an insurance change will remove the ones suicide ganking just for boredom, but it will never stop the ones doing it strictly for the profit. Whining...no. Pointing out the reality yes. As for the rest; I didn't see where I said it wasn't a valid mechanic for obtaining a living. And yes, a smart and successful guy like you who makes a bil a gank (lol), would certainly know that there is no point throwing away your money ganking empty haulers. Yet I see not smart people who seem to have a different idea than you what constitutes success, doing it all the time. So stop being all sensitive and whiny that someone is pointing out a flawed mechanic that allows griefing for free, "for the lulz" as a personal attack on the whole profession, please. At least you see the need for removing insurance. That's a step in the right direction. People need to realize that it will, as you stated, work out in favor of the true gankers if it's removed and only adversely affect those using the poor mechanic for greifing. Win/win Mr Epeen
YARR Trustme	Posted - 2010.01.31 15:33:00 - [57] hmm i don't understand. You are trying to fit an armor tank with shield extenders? A badger mark II with some cheap equipment has 13k hitpoints with an avarage of 50% resistance on 90% of those hitpoints. The It mV is the largest hauler but only useful for wormholes or 0.0 mining / pos ops. If you can't afford it or if you dont want spend that much time to fly transports... fly badger mII.
price checkinho	Posted - 2010.01.31 16:19:00 - [58] I love the logic here: Don't haul more than a ships worth of cargo at a time. Risk to ganker is zero. Risk to hauler is whatever is in the bay plus the cost of the ship and fitting minus insurance. High risk for the hauler no matter what scenario is in place. Risk can be eliminated with a scout, but then possibility of profit is also eliminated if there is a camp where you need to be. Again it shows who the true "carebears" are.
Lucas Lucias	Posted - 2010.01.31 19:05:00 - [59] I managed to get a Badger mk II to 13325 effective hp with my main, how the hell do you get one to 16k, could you give me your fitting?
Rafus Viziam	Posted - 2010.01.31 19:41:00 - [60] I'm guessing you got ganked by Chronz, Seph Bloodfield or Capt Goober. Haha.

Disintegrator Minmatar GK inc. Panda Team	Posted - 2010.01.31 20:05:00 - [61] Use jump freighter or orca. Orca has unscannable cargo. JF just hav silly amount of ehp ;-)
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.02.01 01:22:00 - [62] Originally by: Rafus I'm guessing you got ganked by Chronz, Seph Bloodfield or Capt Goober. Haha. How'd you know?
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.02.01 03:18:00 - [63] Originally by: YARR Trustme hmm i don't understand. You are trying to fit an armor tank with shield extenders? A badger mark II with some cheap equipment has 13k hitpoints with an avarage of 50% resistance on 90% of those hitpoints. The It mV is the largest hauler but only useful for wormholes or 0.0 mining / pos ops. If you can't afford it or if you dont want spend that much time to fly transports... fly badger mII. surely you mean 13k EHP? 13k base hp with full 50per cent resists seemr way too high for an indy. It would give u 20k EHP!!!
Rafus Viziam	Posted - 2010.02.01 03:51:00 - [64] Originally by: Ravenclaw2kk Originally by: Rafus I'm guessing you got ganked by Chronz, Seph Bloodfield or Capt Goober. Haha. How'd you know? I'm the man that's why.
Lucas Lucias	Posted - 2010.02.01 07:50:00 - [65] Originally by: Ravenclaw2kk surely you mean 13k EHP? 13k base hp with full 50per cent resists seemr way too high for an indy. It would give u 20k EHP!!! This is what I did to test it, 13,462 ehp: Badger Mk II High 1x Prototype Cloaking Device I Medium 1x Magnetic Scattering Amplifier I 2x Small Shield Extender II 3x Medium Shield Extender II Low 1x Power Diagnostic System II 1x Collateral Adaptive Nano Plating I 1x 200mm Reinforced Cyrstalline Carbonide Plates I Rigs 3x Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Though I did not get to 50% resists on all, I would love to see the fitting that YARR Trustme (lol!) suggested. Without the insurance stupidity you would be fairly safe running around in this with about 30m ISK of cargo based on the value calculation!!!! Though I think that Concorded ships should get the Basic payout only, not the full payout or nothing at all.
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.02.01 09:57:00 - [66] Originally by: Lucas Lucias Edited by: Lucas Lucias on 01/02/2010 08:56:40 Originally by: Ravenclaw2kk surely you mean 13k EHP? 13k base hp with full 50per cent resists seemr way too high for an indy. It would give u 20k EHP!!! This is what I did to test it, 13,462 ehp: Badger Mk II High 1x Prototype Cloaking Device I Medium 1x Magnetic Scattering Amplifier I 2x Small Shield Extender II 3x Medium Shield Extender II Low 1x Power Diagnostic System II 1x Collateral Adaptive Nano Plating I 1x 200mm Reinforced Cyrstalline Carbonide Plates I Rigs 3x Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Though I did not get to 50% resists on all, I would love to see the fitting that YARR Trustme (lol!) suggested. EDIT: I took out all but two of the Medium Shield reinforcers and remove both small shield reinforcers and put in 4 shield resistence amplifiers and got to over 50% in all and 13473 EHP which is 5074 Shield hp, 1654 Armour hp and 1219 structure hp. The key thing hower is to take into account what they will try to alpha you with and it tends to be explosive and kinetic, so you might want to get their resistence up. Without the insurance stupidity you would be fairly safe running around in this with about 30m ISK of cargo based on the value calculation!!!! Though I think that Concorded ships should get the Basic payout only, not the full payout or nothing at all. I had that EHP with my Itty Mk4 that died in about 5 seconds.. EHP already takes resists into account so you shouldn't really talk about an EHP with % resists together. Best way to calculate (if its a shield tanker) is to look at the base resists and then factor in the Thermal and EM resists.. not sure the ratio of em/thermal damage lasers do but 25/75 doesn't seem unreasonable. Every time i've been ganked is with lasers so is why i am using those values. Fake Edit- i didn't get alpha'd they got off about 4-5 volleys on me before i popped
Lucas Lucias	Posted - 2010.02.01 10:31:00 - [67] EHP is set to the lowest resist, so you actual EHP could be higher for different types of damage, I just detailed that so it was more clear for me, I should have detailed the resists but thought that was over kill. You had 13k on the Itty mk IV, damn that and being ganked each time with lasers is interesting because both times there was an attempt on my main it was Amarr ships, both failed, lol, so I think that helps I will work with EM and heat then, though I have seen someone use a Tempest with artillery... Insurance makes it a lottery, I read your post when you got ganked for 20m by the way. Thanks for the information, as I started experimenting more with my Badgers and am now very clear on what I can transport with my main and how to set them up. Originally by: Ravenclaw2kk I had that EHP with my Itty Mk4 that died in about 5 seconds.. EHP already takes resists into account so you shouldn't really talk about an EHP with % resists together. Best way to calculate (if its a shield tanker) is to look at the base resists and then factor in the Thermal and EM resists.. not sure the ratio of em/thermal damage lasers do but 25/75 doesn't seem unreasonable. Every time i've been ganked is with lasers so is why i am using those values. Fake Edit- i didn't get alpha'd they got off about 4-5 volleys on me before i popped
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.02.01 12:04:00 - [68] Originally by: Lucas Lucias EHP is set to the lowest resist, so you actual EHP could be higher for different types of damage, I just detailed that so it was more clear for me, I should have detailed the resists but thought that was over kill. You had 13k on the Itty mk IV, damn that and being ganked each time with lasers is interesting because both times there was an attempt on my main it was Amarr ships, both failed, lol, so I think that helps I will work with EM and heat then, though I have seen someone use a Tempest with artillery... Insurance makes it a lottery, I read your post when you got ganked for 20m by the way. Thanks for the information, as I started experimenting more with my Badgers and am now very clear on what I can transport with my main and how to set them up. The ship I was flying that just got ganked wasn't tanked that well, i rechecked..it was closer to 13k EHP or so, i thought i would be ok ATK.. but i have some iteron IV fits that are over 21k EHP Something like this would give decent EHP> [Iteron Mark IV, New Setup 1] Damage Control II 200mm Reinforced Rolled Tungsten Plates I Armor Thermic Hardener II Photon Scattering Field II Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction Medium F-S9 Regolith Shield Induction [empty high slot] Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I Medium Core Defence Field Extender I I'm sure i could do better..thats just 5mins playing around in EFT
Rasz Lin Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.02.01 19:57:00 - [69] Im cunfused. They didnt alpha you, took 5 volleys = at lest 7-10 seconds = you didnt WTZ = your fault
Pirate God	Posted - 2010.02.01 20:21:00 - [70] Originally by: Thanatomania Victim: High Flyin Corp: 5th Front enterprises Alliance: Chain of Chaos Faction: NONE Destroyed: Viator System: Uedama Security: 0.5 Damage Taken: 4229 an autopiloting dumbass doesn't count

Lucas Lucias	Posted - 2010.02.01 20:53:00 - [71] As if you can align and warp out in 7 to 10 seconds, take one to two seconds to select something and click warp to, then 10 seconds to start warping. I think you should think through that again, an Industrial is not a Frigate... Originally by: Rasz Lin Im cunfused. They didnt alpha you, took 5 volleys = at lest 7-10 seconds = you didnt WTZ = your fault
Shadow Willow Viziam	Posted - 2010.02.01 22:46:00 - [72] Originally by: Ravenclaw2kk Edited by: Ravenclaw2kk on 30/01/2010 00:23:01 yea, i didn't think 300m was all that much to haul ATK. Courier contracts from now on then. I will learn to play eve properly, damnit. Originally by: Bonafyde I love tears I know, i thought they would be fully appreciated in here. You sir know your audience!!!
Tiberizzle	Posted - 2010.02.02 01:01:00 - [73] active tanks on highsec haulers probably not the best idea considering you'll be alpha'd before the tank is even on... looks good in EFT though?
The Jam Amarr Sinner Among Saints Exquisite Malevolence	Posted - 2010.02.02 01:25:00 - [74] I say for small amounts use a BS or a hic.Ive hauled a few bils worth of faction loot in my broadsword and people tried to gank it , they failed but people still tried though.
Herzog Wolfhammer Gallente Aliastra	Posted - 2010.02.02 03:23:00 - [75] That explains what almost happened to my Wreathe just outside the SOE station in Arnon. Had a load of Meta 4s and shtuff from radar sites. Almost.
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.02.02 06:08:00 - [76] Edited by: Ravenclaw2kk on 02/02/2010 06:09:50 Originally by: Rasz Lin Im cunfused. They didnt alpha you, took 5 volleys = at lest 7-10 seconds = you didnt WTZ = your fault Other side of the gate, silly. Why would i not WTZ!!?? Less than 7s too, it was close. concord arrived like 1s after
Starlk	Posted - 2010.02.02 11:23:00 - [77] I'm afraid anyone in a hauler is likely to be a target. I've been targeted many a time jumping through even .8 systems - you're a prime target for pirates who suicide you and a mate comes to recover the drops afterwards. If you're taking so much stuff get an escort, pay someone to cover your back as you navigate to your route. I've been locked many a time and have been blown up a couple of times in cargoships, you grit your teeth and just realise it's part of the game.
Shaitis Caldari Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.02 12:51:00 - [78] for afk, just freighter, and not more than 1 bil is in cargo.... slow but never been ganked (from 2005) and I have 3 freighter chars.
Dani WH	Posted - 2010.02.02 13:43:00 - [79] Originally by: Syringe I don't see anything here about using a scout... wtf? scouting in highsec? how would you know its a ganker
Ravenclaw2kk	Posted - 2010.02.03 01:59:00 - [80] Originally by: Dani WH Originally by: Syringe I don't see anything here about using a scout... wtf? scouting in highsec? how would you know its a ganker sensor boosters.



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