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Another Fantastic Week in R-V-B!

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Atomicus Death-Row	Posted - 2010.02.08 15:57:00 - [31] Ever considered to take your concept to the next level? RvB Alliances, thus facilitating corporations to join as a whole. Atomicus CEO Death-Row
Johan Sabbat Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.02.08 16:12:00 - [32] Originally by: Melrax Nerrck Originally by: Sir Isacnor Im in RedvsBlue and right now is far from as great as Orion is making out. Currently, Red is lacking in both FC and players which has now resorted to a few times in the past couple of days their being a blue fleet camped outside red hq with nobody to fight. Any kind of station camp is gonna make it quite hard and very annoying for those people who do not fly in fleets but use RvB as a 1v1 soloist dream. Furthermore if you want a good fight with fleets then let the reds or the blues move together rather then playing station games. Set up fights at a planet or one of the numorous asteroid belts, but don't camp thats just not fun for anyone. Originally by: Sir Isacnor Don't get me wrong, I enjoy RedvsBlue and i've learned quite a bit from it thus far, but its far from the "golden newbie pvp heaven" that its portrayed as. Oh, and ECM not being allowed while then allowing ECM drones just screams "whaaa" to me You miss-read what I said, and its probably cause you don't have a very good understanding on why ECM bonus boats effect fleet fights. ECM bonus boats are basically an "iWin" button. ECM drones and ECM mods on a ship not boosting those attributes is not nearly as effective. Again if you want ECM then you can use it just not on a ship that will Overpower one side, this rule is in place so everyone has fun. I think thats the problem with the blue side, sorry to say it you guys are in it to win. Reds have a different and arguably better approach. You see the times I've been in winning Red fleet(Numerous times)we started noticing that the blues numbers dropped every time they lost, and its simply because you guys want to win. We don't care if we win or not we are happy flying our pod back to the station for another ship. Such is why reds numbers usually stay high even we lose. Though its been a good week since I fought in Tourier, I've been having fun pvping outside of Tourier. I think we can say it's a problem on both sides... we had one guy bringing a faction cruiser to a frig/dessie gang (not to mention faction BSs to other gangs) whilst I've seen red agree to bring specific numbers of a certain ship type and then bring many more (cough seven BSs *cough). The key thing that turns around poor fleet attendence appears to be a strong FC, I'm happy to fight on the losing side so long as we have clear direction and a plan (preferably beyond everyone ship up to their next biggest close range Tank n Spank boat). As for RvB being noob friendly, we aren't here to teach pvp. There's nothing to stop you learning by losing ships and asking qustions, but if you want a teacher then try Agony Unleashed or Eve Uni.
Jin Nib Resplendent Knives	Posted - 2010.02.08 16:23:00 - [33] Originally by: Pater Peccavi Originally by: Jin Nib I think this thread is having an effect opposite to what was intended. Lol I think your keeping this thread bumped is having the opposite effect of your intentions. My intentions, which are what? Keeping track of a thread I find interesting? I don't know about you but I hate looking on the second page for a thread. -Jin Nib Trading on behalf of Opera Noir since: 2009.03.02 03:53:00
Doccia Ellicis Caldari Red Federation	Posted - 2010.02.08 19:49:00 - [34] Originally by: Atomicus Ever considered to take your concept to the next level? RvB Alliances, thus facilitating corporations to join as a whole. I think that would be a great idea. The increased wardec costs will discourage third party wardecs who just want to pad their killboards with noob frig kills.
Dread Delgarth	Posted - 2010.02.11 19:42:00 - [35] Originally by: Doccia Ellicis Originally by: Atomicus Ever considered to take your concept to the next level? RvB Alliances, thus facilitating corporations to join as a whole. I think that would be a great idea. The increased wardec costs will discourage third party wardecs who just want to pad their killboards with noob frig kills. I too think it's a cool idea - spreads RvB out of the confines of a mere four systems and would allow High Sec 'Carebear' Corps to dip their toes into PvP which can only be a good thing.
Plave Okice Krazny Oktyabr Revolyutsiya	Posted - 2010.02.12 10:06:00 - [36] Edited by: Plave Okice on 12/02/2010 10:07:28 Not a good idea. And I'm saying that from the experience of having made two Alliances during RvB 1. It made balance much more difficult, and balance is hard enough as it is. Stick to corps, we learned the hard way first time round. Originally by: Doccia Ellicis I think that would be a great idea. The increased wardec costs will discourage third party wardecs who just want to pad their killboards with noob frig kills. 3rd party war is the part of RvB you should look forward to.
Doccia Ellicis Caldari Red Federation	Posted - 2010.02.12 20:27:00 - [37] Edited by: Doccia Ellicis on 12/02/2010 20:28:38 Originally by: Plave Okice Originally by: Doccia Ellicis I think that would be a great idea. The increased wardec costs will discourage third party wardecs who just want to pad their killboards with noob frig kills. 3rd party war is the part of RvB you should look forward to. Why, oh why? I bet you enjoy getting camped in by a fleet of RR Battleships with logistics and tackler support. We can't even do anything about it. Oh, and before you say "lol wai not fight back??" Do you not think we already thought about it? R-v-B is mostly comprised of people who are of low-sp and limited pvp experience. We lack in skillpoints, equipment, ships, experience and organization. Even if we do sc** up the necessary numbers and resources to even have a remote chance of defeating them, they'll just dock up or ship up. Because they can see everything that we are planning with in-corp spies. These guys are not interested in "fair" fights, they don't operate under the philosophy that "I'm going to lose this ship but I'm going to have fun doing it," all they are interested in is gank gank gank. They even go as far as to employ interceptors and prober alts to scan down our insta-undocks to gank a few t1 fitted Rifters. That is why we are ignoring them. And even then there'll always be the **** who tries to solo them in his failfit T2. That's how the rest of EVE works, and the whole purpose of R-v-B is to escape from that. So I fail to see how we "should look forward to it." So please don't spew random nonsense and pretend that you actually know what you are talking about.
Plave Okice Krazny Oktyabr Revolyutsiya	Posted - 2010.02.13 01:03:00 - [38] Why don't you look up the name of the guy who formed the very corp you're in. Then come back and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about.
Abram Thrust Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.02.13 01:55:00 - [39] >.< this is comedy gold. Plave doesn't even need to be in RvB to roll reds!
J'mee Leggs	Posted - 2010.02.13 01:58:00 - [40] Originally by: Plave Okice Edited by: Plave Okice on 12/02/2010 10:07:28 3rd party war is the part of RvB you should look forward to. QFT. 3rd parties are when you bring out your ECM boats, or bajillion SP gajillion ISK ships. 3rd parties add variety. The same rule of thumb applies. The winner goes home in a pod, the loser stays docked up.
Doccia Ellicis Caldari Red Federation	Posted - 2010.02.13 02:25:00 - [41] Edited by: Doccia Ellicis on 13/02/2010 02:28:18 Originally by: Plave Okice Why don't you look up the name of the guy who formed the very corp you're in. Then come back and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh no! Where is your ass? I must kiss it! Is that the reaction that you are looking for? You offered no counter argument to the points that I made above. Maybe next time you can actually post some substance instead of displaying unfounded arrogance and condescension. Maybe next time you will realize that just because you are one of the founders of RvB doesn't exempt you from criticism.
Hereon Herinnger Gallente Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.02.13 04:27:00 - [42] Just confirming here that independent of all flamewars, RvB is awesome. That is all.
Kenrailae	Posted - 2010.02.13 05:06:00 - [43] Woot RVB! You Guys Rock! :D
Russel Williams Minmatar Red Federation	Posted - 2010.02.13 05:22:00 - [44] Too much QQ'ing in here . Anyway <3 RvB
Cartheron Crust Krazny Oktyabr Revolyutsiya	Posted - 2010.02.13 07:18:00 - [45] How do you get camped in to station in hi-sec? One of the first things you are told before you join RvB is to make multiple instaundock points and some gatecheck bm's. Even if you didn't you can just undock in a pod and warp off to another station and get in a ship. Leaving the 3rd party guys to camp an empty station. Avoiding 3rd party wardecs if you don't have enough numbers, correct ships to counter them, or just plain can't be arsed at that time is rediculously easy.
Plave Okice Krazny Oktyabr Revolyutsiya	Posted - 2010.02.13 11:11:00 - [46] Originally by: Doccia Ellicis Edited by: Doccia Ellicis on 13/02/2010 03:06:49 Originally by: Plave Okice Why don't you look up the name of the guy who formed the very corp you're in. Then come back and tell me I don't know what I'm talking about. Oh no! Where is your ass? I must kiss it! Is that the reaction that you were looking for? You offered no counter argument to the points that I made above. Maybe next time you can actually post some substance instead of displaying unfounded arrogance and condescension. Maybe next time you will realize that just because you are one of the founders of RvB doesn't exempt you from criticism. Maybe next time you don't have to rely on a blatant Argumentum ad Verecundiam. RvB was not created to "escape from normal PvP" as you seem to claim it is, I should know, I created it, it was created to be a normal war in empire that allowed anyone to join, it was not created to be a noob friendly pvp zone with rules and exceptions that made it different from any other eve pvp. No argument to be made about that, it's cold, hard fact.
Doccia Ellicis Caldari Red Federation	Posted - 2010.02.13 14:48:00 - [47] Originally by: Plave Okice RvB was not created to "escape from normal PvP" as you seem to claim it is, I should know, I created it, it was created to be a normal war in empire that allowed anyone to join, it was not created to be a noob friendly pvp zone with rules and exceptions that made it different from any other eve pvp. No argument to be made about that, it's cold, hard fact. Perhaps it wasn't created to be that way, but, currently, it is. That's why we have rules and exceptions that makes it a newbie friendly environment. After all, it is the hook of RvB and it is what made it popular the second time around. The current state of RvB is a cold, hard fact and your prior intentions are irrelevant to the situation at hand. Originally by: Plave Okice You "lack in skillpoints, equipment, ships, experience and organization" because the rules that have been brought into RvB are the very rules that have turned away more experienced pvpers, attracted only noob players and meant the gulf between RvB pvp and "real" pvp gets wider and wider. I completely agree. However, I am not sure if it is actually a bad thing. In either case, I am in no position to change the rules of RvB. Originally by: Plave Okice Having said that, they skillpoints, equipment and ships aren't an issue, experience is, organisation moreso. 3rd party war should be the challenge, RvB fighting should be the good fun, the practice, the cheap ships and loads of kills to learn the experience and improve the organisation. 3rd party war is where you put it to the test, fight better quality opponents in better ships with better loot to be dropped and better satisfaction from destroying them, that's why 3rd party war is what you should look forward to. No, skillpoints, equipment and ships are issues. Perhaps not as much as experience and organization, but they are still a limiting factor. Perhaps you have originally intended that third party war to be one of the goals of RvB, but it is simply not so. With the indiscriminate recruiting system RvB offers, third party corps can plant in as many spies as they desire. Then, the situation can be described by a single if conditional: If we don't have enough resources to defeat them, then we die. Else, they dock right up. We cannot plan sophisticated ambushes because everything we say in fleet comms is directly broadcasted to the enemy's FC. Perhaps it is a learning experience, yes. But it is definitely not fun. And it isn't something that I look forward to in RvB.
Orion Shadowmaker Amarr Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.02.13 18:05:00 - [48] WOW! -- First of all RVB is the best thing going right now for me -- Yeah War Decs can be tough, but that doesnt change in 0.0 I assure you (have you ever been on the losing side of a low sec war?( HELLO VIETNAM!) BTW, Thanks Plave for creating this awesome concept. -- because most of us really appreciate it. There is no way to make everyone happy, and if you try, your corp is just setting itself up for failure. Although War decs always have frustration no matter what part of Eve your in. ITS JUST PART OF LIVING IN EVE! My enthusiazm is real and genuine, although You guys claim Im some kind of a recruiting bastage -- Your dead wrong! - This post is only for those still hurting like I was, the ones sick and tired of endless missions, sick and tired of not being on for the few fights that did happen that day in low sec. We do fight more, we do create good friendships and we(most of us) love this thing called RVB! PS: sorry Jahred, I just couldnt allow this *****ing rant about one thing to taint the original post on how real experience is a PVP'ers greatest asset. OVER AND OUT! Orion Shadowmaker Go Blues!
lollerwaffle Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2010.02.13 21:52:00 - [49] This. Thread. Is. Awesome. (Only after Plave posted and that random noob started flaming him and looking stupid though) GO RVB! Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think? Originally by: AFK Cloaker
Doccia Ellicis Caldari Red Federation	Posted - 2010.02.13 22:17:00 - [50] Originally by: lollerwaffle This. Thread. Is. Awesome. (Only after Plave posted and that random noob started flaming him and looking stupid though) GO RVB! Yay, forum cool points beat logic every single time.
lollerwaffle Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2010.02.13 22:37:00 - [51] Originally by: Doccia Ellicis Originally by: lollerwaffle This. Thread. Is. Awesome. (Only after Plave posted and that random noob started flaming him and looking stupid though) GO RVB! Yay, forum cool points beat logic every single time. There's no place for logic here. -Forum-Fu 101 Originally by: salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think? Originally by: AFK Cloaker
Doccia Ellicis Caldari Red Federation	Posted - 2010.02.13 22:52:00 - [52] Originally by: lollerwaffle Originally by: Doccia Ellicis Originally by: lollerwaffle This. Thread. Is. Awesome. (Only after Plave posted and that random noob started flaming him and looking stupid though) GO RVB! Yay, forum cool points beat logic every single time. There's no place for logic here. -Forum-Fu 101 lol, it sure seems like it.
Amarr Supremacist	Posted - 2010.02.13 23:34:00 - [53] Wow, what a little baby you are. All the cool people like Plave left RvB already. What you have left are people like Orion - teehee.
Serend Gallente Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.02.22 18:12:00 - [54] Originally by: Doccia Ellicis Edited by: Doccia Ellicis on 13/02/2010 03:06:49 Originally by: Plave Okice Maybe next time you don't have to rely on a blatant Argumentum ad Verecundiam. This is cold, hard fact. Believe it. RvB has classier flamewars. Period. Serend
decoherance Gallente Blue Republic	Posted - 2010.02.22 20:06:00 - [55] I dont get to play Eve that much anymore, I log in maybe 2-3 times a week for a couple of hours at the most. Because of my limited play time I'm pretty much useless to a corp or alliance, FacWar is dead and solo'ing takes too long. When I log on I just want pew pew so RvB is perfect for me, I can log in and get into a fight within 5mins max. That is what RvB is about, quick and easy to find fights. It's not just noobs in frigs, and all the people shooting it down saying how all the best pilots left etc... need to grow up. Orion is just excited at all the action he's getting, no need to flame him because you feel superior with your 'proper' pvp. If you see RVB in the thread title and get butthurt over it, then dont click it, it's only one little line on the forum, quite easy to ignore. I'd like to thank Plave for setting it up again (I was there the first time round) and all the people who have kept it going, without it I probably would'nt be playing Eve at all.
Sillas Cov Red Federation	Posted - 2010.02.22 22:35:00 - [56] Edited by: Sillas Cov on 22/02/2010 22:35:44 Originally by: Plave Okice 3rd party war is the part of RvB you should look forward to. As an Active Fc for Red Fed for almost 4 months and 2000 kills, I think I'm in a good position to comment on Plave's above statement. 1st off Rvb only works as a vehicle for consistent, challenging, and fun Pvp, When pilots commit their ships and fleets too the fight... AWAY FROM THE STATIONS. Pvp is fun... wait for it: When you actually do it. 3rd Party war decs in Rvb are 95% fail in terms of satisfying pvp because... well, for many of the reasons outlined by my fellow corp mate Doccia. To each their own brand of Eve Pvp enjoyment,but Rvb Pilots vote with their time, isk and ships.My boys actually UNDOCK and willingly engage worthy Blue Republic opponents like Orion and his fleet mates, with full commitment.... repeatedly. Battle after Battle. 3rd party War decs rarely commit their ships away from stations, or without neutral RR support, gank odds or spies... which leave myself and my fleet mates without respect for these types of engagements. I'm bored with 3rd party pvp as it predictable and mostly fail. It doesnt even occur to me too join a High sec wannabe pvp ganking corp. I'm having too much fun shooting stuff. We are in Rvb because we want to actually fight, not wait idle hours for it, or run from it, or horde our shiny ships....or dock up when the odds move away from sure win. Our system of fleet balancing is getting Rvb lots of fights... T1 combat is intensely challenging and rewarding. If this has to be explained too you then.... well... Onward Sillas
Lukka	Posted - 2010.02.22 23:46:00 - [57] Originally by: Sillas Cov 3rd party War decs rarely commit their ships away from stations, or without neutral RR support, gank odds or spies... which leave myself and my fleet mates without respect for these types of engagements. In general, 3rd parties field much smaller gangs than can red or blue (much less combined purple fleets), hence force multipliers are needed to achieve anything resembling force parity. Or do you really expect 1-4 3rd party wartargets to engage you on a gate when they know they'll get blobbed by 10, 20, 30 wts? Why would they intentionally put themselves in that situation? Do you think 3rd parties wardec you to fuel your killboards, Hanna Deltr, "FC for almost 4 months and 2000 kills"? Everything you blame/accuse 3rd party wts of doing is a direct response to RvB's own tactics against them. I should know, having been on both sides of this coin. There isn't even the faintest notion of giving a 3rd party a 'good fight.' The kneejerk, and only, reaction is to try to blob them into oblivion. Given this, how do you expect 3rd parties to prosecute their wardec? How would you fight an opponent with 5-30x your numbers? Of your list of 'underhanded' tactics, poopoo'ing 3rd parties for using spies is singularly amusing, considering both Red and Blue use spies (both in the opposing corp and neutral scout alts) against one another. I enjoyed my time both in and against RvB. A few observations: I would say I heard more whining in RvB than anywhere else in eve (which, frankly, is quite a feat). Good laughs though, if you don't take video games too seriously. The assignment of a moral position to 3rd party wardecs is pretty absurd in my opinion. Pardon the double negative, but I'd wager that CCP didn't implement wardecs so people wouldn't use them. I also find it mildly ironic that you complain about the very mechanic to which RvB owes its existence. You want to eat your cake and have it too? Well, me too, but eve (and life, coincidentally) doesn't work that way. /lukka
Sillas Cov Red Federation	Posted - 2010.02.23 00:51:00 - [58] Originally by: Lukka The assignment of a moral position to 3rd party wardecs is pretty absurd in my opinion. Lukka Bro... Yes a bit of moralizing was expressed in the last post. Your points look at the issues associated with force parity from a War Decing corp's point of view, but basically state the obvious. I wonder then: Why wardec Rvb at all, unless you can field a 30 man High sec pvp fleet to take us on and join in the fun of off station fighting? If I recall once you deced our corp you spent a lot of your time ganking undocking noobs and successfully baiting a few bored, idle pilots! That must of gotten old after the 1st few days. I've found that in reality, Rvb only works when Fcs get pilots into fleets and into action at reasonable odds... in a timely manner. Repeatedly. Pilots in Rvb may like the 3rd gank win when they can get it, but station games and undermanned 3rd party war dec fights don't provide the level of fun Ive seem my pilots have in Rvb Fleet action. The key idea I communicated was the intense amount of fun we have in Rvb... because we get to fight alot. The issues associated with 3rd party war decs are minor compared too the quality and quantity of fights we get in Rvb. I would have thought that was obvious from my last post. We had 2 great 20 vs 20 Mixed Battle cruiser, cruiser fights this weekend, which came down the wire after 15 minutes of intense fighting... seriously cool fights. No one docked up or ran away for the most part. Sand box working as intended in Rvb. Sillas
Lukka	Posted - 2010.02.23 02:01:00 - [59] Originally by: Sillas Cov Yes a bit of moralizing was expressed in the last post. While I did choose 'you' as a pronoun, I really meant pretty much every anti-3rd party wardec post in this thread. Originally by: Sillas Cov Why wardec Rvb at all, unless you can field a 30 man High sec pvp fleet to take us on and join in the fun of off station fighting? A lot of people like the idea of RvB and would like to take part, but have formed a strong sense of community with their existing corp and don't wish to give it up. Becoming a 3rd party wardec is a logical way to take part in the fun. It doesn't mean they hate RvB and want to see it implode. It also doesn't mean they expect/desire to be blobbed into oblivion or do the same to RvB. This was understood during the first iteration of RvB and I imagine was at least part of the reasoning behind the creation of the alliances, which sadly didn't work out. Plenty of people I know have asked me about RvB and were thinking about joining, and I was happy to recommend it, but in the end they weren't willing to leave their corp to do so. Originally by: Sillas Cov Pilots in Rvb may like the 3rd gank win when they can get it, but station games and undermanned 3rd party war dec fights don't provide the level of fun Ive seem my pilots have in Rvb Fleet action. They wouldn't be undermanned 3rd party fleets if you actually tried to engage them the same way you would an RvB gang. Just because you can blob them doesn't mean you have to. RvB 'force matches' enough it should be second nature. Obviously adjustments need to be made given that 3rd parties are less likely to shy away from things like neutral rr or ecm that are, or were, taboo in RvB. Or perhaps be straight forward with them, and let them know that you're all about the good fights, but if they do start using neutral rr or whatever displeases the RvB masses that week you'll start blobbing the h3ll out of them /shrug. My buddies and I would've loved to fight RvB 2-4v3-6, but we never bothered trying to give RvB that type of fight because we knew we'd never get it. When you watch an RvB BC/BS/t3 undock and aggress you on a station while watching 20 more itching at the seams on the Tourier gate in Alenia with a cov ops alt, it's one of those /facepalm moments. Originally by: Sillas Cov The key idea I communicated was the intense amount of fun we have in Rvb... because we get to fight alot. The issues associated with 3rd party war decs are minor compared too the quality and quantity of fights we get in Rvb. We had 2 great 20 vs 20 Mixed Battle cruiser, cruiser fights this weekend, which came down the wire after 15 minutes of intense fighting... seriously cool fights. No one docked up or ran away for the most part. Sand box working as intended in Rvb. Yes, RvB does get more fights than anything else I've seen and it is a surprisingly lot of fun. My point, and not necessarily directed at you Hanna, is simply that 3rd parties are not the bane of RvB's existence. They're not "out to get you." Maybe some are, I can't speak for the motivations of others really, but in many cases they're just groups of friends that want exactly the same things as RvBers, but don't want to give up their corp to do it. This does not make them morally bankrupt reincarnations of <insert hated despot here>. Having had an alt in RvB while I was a 3rd party wardec (), I know exactly how much hatred RvB can work up for them. If RvB looked at 3rd parties as a means to get more good fights it would only make it better overall. Or think of the possibilities with 3 way fights? How awesome could that turn out to be? 3rd party wardecs should be an opportunity for RvBers, not the annoyance/hassle RvB has allowed them to become. /lukka
Michael Turate	Posted - 2010.02.23 18:10:00 - [60] Initially I'm agreeing with Plave. 3rd party wars should be one of the most exciting parts of RVB, a chance for RVB pilots to 'raise their game' and face off against the kind of opponents they will meet in lo-sec and 0.0, experienced pilots using the full gamut of Eve PVP mechanics including RR, smartbombs, ECM, spies, neutral scouts etc. In reality it has rarely worked out like that in this incarnation of RVB as the corps that have war decced RVB have been too small. RVB now has over 1200 members and can easily field defense fleets of 50+ most nights with bs/bc and plenty of t2. The small corps that have war decced RVB have been unable to meet RVB in open combat and have had to revert to 'terrorist' tactics of sniping, ambushing and camping in order to get kills and justify their dec. Unfortunately these tactics punish those least able to protect themselves and results in new RVB pilots being ganked and podded as they attempt to get to RVB fights. This disrupts the normal flow of RVB action and RVB FCs will usually deal with it in the most effective way, i.e. blob the griefers out of existence. SilasÆs comments are backed up by the facts. So if you plan to war dec RVB, consider the size of the corp you are facing. They may be noobs but plenty of corps in Eve have demonstrated that numerical superiority often neutralizes skill deficit. If you canÆt bring numbers and you wonÆt engage in open combat then the odds are youÆll get the blob. ItÆs not malicious, but people enter RVB with the expectation of lots of PVP and if 3rd parties are preventing fights from happening then they have to be dealt with.

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