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Homerclese
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Posted - 2004.11.26 11:26:00 -
[31]
awsome man , finaly the caldari raven wont cost 90% bounty of a Bship in Torps.
I guess pirate hunting will still bbe profitable again
in a raven.
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Homerclese
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Posted - 2004.11.26 11:26:00 -
[32]
awsome man , finaly the caldari raven wont cost 90% bounty of a Bship in Torps.
I guess pirate hunting will still bbe profitable again
in a raven.
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Weix
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Posted - 2004.11.26 11:56:00 -
[33]
Who claims this wont affect the market is a moron. Supply will increase 10 fold. Prices will drop accordingly. Big deal, u might say...ever heard of deflation?
My clients will be able to buy 10 missles for the price of 1 missle. Maby they will spend an even amount of money, but their stocks will be 10x bigger now, which means it will take 10 times longer before these guys will come to me again asking for missles. This whole situations only benefits the fighters who use the missles, but will totally destroy the manufacturers.
The only way to stop this deflation is to keep prices up like they used to be, and dont flood the market with supplies.
Iam wondering why most manufacuturers dont get my point.....
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Weix
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Posted - 2004.11.26 11:56:00 -
[34]
Who claims this wont affect the market is a moron. Supply will increase 10 fold. Prices will drop accordingly. Big deal, u might say...ever heard of deflation?
My clients will be able to buy 10 missles for the price of 1 missle. Maby they will spend an even amount of money, but their stocks will be 10x bigger now, which means it will take 10 times longer before these guys will come to me again asking for missles. This whole situations only benefits the fighters who use the missles, but will totally destroy the manufacturers.
The only way to stop this deflation is to keep prices up like they used to be, and dont flood the market with supplies.
Iam wondering why most manufacuturers dont get my point.....
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WhiteTiger
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Posted - 2004.11.26 12:56:00 -
[35]
 Originally by: Weix
Who claims this wont affect the market is a moron. Supply will increase 10 fold. Prices will drop accordingly. Big deal, u might say...ever heard of deflation?
My clients will be able to buy 10 missles for the price of 1 missle. Maby they will spend an even amount of money, but their stocks will be 10x bigger now, which means it will take 10 times longer before these guys will come to me again asking for missles. This whole situations only benefits the fighters who use the missles, but will totally destroy the manufacturers.
The only way to stop this deflation is to keep prices up like they used to be, and dont flood the market with supplies.
Iam wondering why most manufacuturers dont get my point.....
Because most manufacturers might understand that new level 4 missions have been released. The raven was one of the better ships to use for easy of use before since doesn't have tracking issues, however you would use up almost all the bounties on ammo making it much less profitable - as a result many people would use other ships if they could. Now with cheap missiles expect mission runner all through empire to be spamming missiles like crazy. I expect you could have a much higher demand for torps.
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WhiteTiger
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Posted - 2004.11.26 12:56:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Weix
Who claims this wont affect the market is a moron. Supply will increase 10 fold. Prices will drop accordingly. Big deal, u might say...ever heard of deflation?
My clients will be able to buy 10 missles for the price of 1 missle. Maby they will spend an even amount of money, but their stocks will be 10x bigger now, which means it will take 10 times longer before these guys will come to me again asking for missles. This whole situations only benefits the fighters who use the missles, but will totally destroy the manufacturers.
The only way to stop this deflation is to keep prices up like they used to be, and dont flood the market with supplies.
Iam wondering why most manufacuturers dont get my point.....
Because most manufacturers might understand that new level 4 missions have been released. The raven was one of the better ships to use for easy of use before since doesn't have tracking issues, however you would use up almost all the bounties on ammo making it much less profitable - as a result many people would use other ships if they could. Now with cheap missiles expect mission runner all through empire to be spamming missiles like crazy. I expect you could have a much higher demand for torps.
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2004.11.26 13:34:00 -
[37]
Edited by: d'hofren on 26/11/2004 13:39:40
now hold your horses, this is an erudite and civilized conversation. There is no need to call people either a moron or a dumb ass. It achieves nothing, if anything it just makes people ignore your post.
In my post I did say that turnover would decrease, up until now missiles have been a nice cash cow. ho hum.
As for deflation. Well maybe. You should ALWAYS be able to turn a profit on missiles. Unless someone is seliing at below Cost Price. If that is happening then sit on your stock untill the market recovers.
You as a producer have a natural advantage over the NPC seller.
sabre tooth light missile.
Base price according to eve-o = 760 so a batch of 100 = 7.6isk
Build your own with avrg min prices and no ME or PE skills and it comes in at around 6.5 isk a missile. That's a 8% margin to work in before you even get ME and PE into the equation. That places your entry point under NPC's. Half decent PE and ME should give you nearer 20% margin to play with. in RL even a 10% return on your money is ok.
As long as no one tries to flood the market you should be fine. If someone does flood the market then find a new selling site . After all we have always had to cope with people who can't do the numbers borking the local market with daftly priced sell orders. The new visability skill should stop one daft price from slewing the whole market now anyhow.
Even with this situation. I stumbled on a way to get a 47% ROI from the new missile prices. That should last a few days.
HTH
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2004.11.26 13:34:00 -
[38]
Edited by: d'hofren on 26/11/2004 13:39:40
now hold your horses, this is an erudite and civilized conversation. There is no need to call people either a moron or a dumb ass. It achieves nothing, if anything it just makes people ignore your post.
In my post I did say that turnover would decrease, up until now missiles have been a nice cash cow. ho hum.
As for deflation. Well maybe. You should ALWAYS be able to turn a profit on missiles. Unless someone is seliing at below Cost Price. If that is happening then sit on your stock untill the market recovers.
You as a producer have a natural advantage over the NPC seller.
sabre tooth light missile.
Base price according to eve-o = 760 so a batch of 100 = 7.6isk
Build your own with avrg min prices and no ME or PE skills and it comes in at around 6.5 isk a missile. That's a 8% margin to work in before you even get ME and PE into the equation. That places your entry point under NPC's. Half decent PE and ME should give you nearer 20% margin to play with. in RL even a 10% return on your money is ok.
As long as no one tries to flood the market you should be fine. If someone does flood the market then find a new selling site . After all we have always had to cope with people who can't do the numbers borking the local market with daftly priced sell orders. The new visability skill should stop one daft price from slewing the whole market now anyhow.
Even with this situation. I stumbled on a way to get a 47% ROI from the new missile prices. That should last a few days.
HTH
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TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.26 17:52:00 -
[39]
i'm seeing the missile market going under before my very eyes.
thank the wonderful undercutters for that i guess.
If one of these marvellous people that price their products by taking x-hundred off the cheapest in the region to sell things;
a)You kill entire markets with your lack of knowledge and brain power. You kill them for yourselves but don't seem to realise this. Therefore, you suck.
b)YOU DON'T NEED TO BE THE CHEAPEST IN AN ENTIRE REGION TO SELL YOUR PRODUCTS 
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TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.26 17:52:00 -
[40]
i'm seeing the missile market going under before my very eyes.
thank the wonderful undercutters for that i guess.
If one of these marvellous people that price their products by taking x-hundred off the cheapest in the region to sell things;
a)You kill entire markets with your lack of knowledge and brain power. You kill them for yourselves but don't seem to realise this. Therefore, you suck.
b)YOU DON'T NEED TO BE THE CHEAPEST IN AN ENTIRE REGION TO SELL YOUR PRODUCTS
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Weix
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Posted - 2004.11.26 17:58:00 -
[41]
TheAwakaning: i totally agree with u.
Hofren: Sry for calling u a moron, but u still havent made a comment on the fact that the buy frequency will also drop 10-fold, which means we manufacturers will earn 10 times less isk/time. THATS the main problem here as far as iam concerned.
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Weix
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Posted - 2004.11.26 17:58:00 -
[42]
TheAwakaning: i totally agree with u.
Hofren: Sry for calling u a moron, but u still havent made a comment on the fact that the buy frequency will also drop 10-fold, which means we manufacturers will earn 10 times less isk/time. THATS the main problem here as far as iam concerned.
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TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.26 18:41:00 -
[43]
Edited by: TheAwakening on 26/11/2004 18:45:39
Absolutley. As i stated in my other thread (trying to get an Dev/Gm/ISD's attention elsewhere!), i used to supply corps with Cruise/Torps. Bulk buying of 10,000 was about the norm.
For arguments sake, lets say i earned 100m a week selling missiles. Even though i will be able to produce x10 missiles than i could before, i am unlikely to sell more than i was doing before in the same timeframe! Therefore going from 100m a week income to 10m income, selling the same amount of missiles. People aren't going to buy more missiles just because they can afford to. They'll keep the money they've saved (10k Mjolnirs pre-exodus ~30m, exodus ~3m... 27m!!!) and buy better modules/ships, leaving us missile producers right up the wazoo.
Not to mention the impact on the other ammunition markets this will have. As i stated in my original post, who's now going to buy medium hybrid ammo, when a heavy missile will be around the same price, doing a higher, more consistant damage?
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TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.26 18:41:00 -
[44]
Edited by: TheAwakening on 26/11/2004 18:45:39
Absolutley. As i stated in my other thread (trying to get an Dev/Gm/ISD's attention elsewhere!), i used to supply corps with Cruise/Torps. Bulk buying of 10,000 was about the norm.
For arguments sake, lets say i earned 100m a week selling missiles. Even though i will be able to produce x10 missiles than i could before, i am unlikely to sell more than i was doing before in the same timeframe! Therefore going from 100m a week income to 10m income, selling the same amount of missiles. People aren't going to buy more missiles just because they can afford to. They'll keep the money they've saved (10k Mjolnirs pre-exodus ~30m, exodus ~3m... 27m!!!) and buy better modules/ships, leaving us missile producers right up the wazoo.
Not to mention the impact on the other ammunition markets this will have. As i stated in my original post, who's now going to buy medium hybrid ammo, when a heavy missile will be around the same price, doing a higher, more consistant damage?
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MajorGeneral Ponsonby
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Posted - 2004.11.27 08:09:00 -
[45]
Whats especially nice if you had BUY ORDERS for hundreds of millions in isk worth of missiles WHICH YOU CANT CANCEL and then all the vultures JUMP onto those orders and you LOSE 100s of million of isk BECAUSE NOBODY NOTIFIED YOU OF THESE CHANGES before the release.
Yay for market nerfs!
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MajorGeneral Ponsonby
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Posted - 2004.11.27 08:09:00 -
[46]
Whats especially nice if you had BUY ORDERS for hundreds of millions in isk worth of missiles WHICH YOU CANT CANCEL and then all the vultures JUMP onto those orders and you LOSE 100s of million of isk BECAUSE NOBODY NOTIFIED YOU OF THESE CHANGES before the release.
Yay for market nerfs!
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Raaki
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:23:00 -
[47]
Unbelievable man, how could they have done this unanounced.
This change has cost corps hundreds of millions. As i have produced big stockpiles of torps, cruise everything just before this change was made. All those invested minerals are now gone, wasted.
Tnxs verry much ccp. 
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Raaki
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:23:00 -
[48]
Unbelievable man, how could they have done this unanounced.
This change has cost corps hundreds of millions. As i have produced big stockpiles of torps, cruise everything just before this change was made. All those invested minerals are now gone, wasted.
Tnxs verry much ccp.
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:53:00 -
[49]
Originally by: MajorGeneral Ponsonby
Whats especially nice if you had BUY ORDERS for hundreds of millions in isk worth of missiles WHICH YOU CANT CANCEL and then all the vultures JUMP onto those orders and you LOSE 100s of million of isk BECAUSE NOBODY NOTIFIED YOU OF THESE CHANGES before the release.
Yay for market nerfs!
Why can't ya cancel them ? Just fly to the area the order was placed... "Cancel Order" done... or did I miss the CCP announcement....or it just to far for your Trade Skill range ?
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:53:00 -
[50]
Originally by: MajorGeneral Ponsonby
Whats especially nice if you had BUY ORDERS for hundreds of millions in isk worth of missiles WHICH YOU CANT CANCEL and then all the vultures JUMP onto those orders and you LOSE 100s of million of isk BECAUSE NOBODY NOTIFIED YOU OF THESE CHANGES before the release.
Yay for market nerfs!
Why can't ya cancel them ? Just fly to the area the order was placed... "Cancel Order" done... or did I miss the CCP announcement....or it just to far for your Trade Skill range ?
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nieo
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Posted - 2004.11.30 01:36:00 -
[51]
Yay!
Similar change when Castor hit Tranquility if I recall correct. I like it. I also like the stupid producers selling Destroyers for 500k below production cost with a ME0/PE5 bpo/char.
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nieo
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Posted - 2004.11.30 01:36:00 -
[52]
Yay!
Similar change when Castor hit Tranquility if I recall correct. I like it. I also like the stupid producers selling Destroyers for 500k below production cost with a ME0/PE5 bpo/char.
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2004.11.30 13:54:00 -
[53]
Edited by: d'hofren on 30/11/2004 14:06:18
Edited by: d'hofren on 30/11/2004 13:57:24
Yep, it is a pity that the market has been flipped but this kind of thing happens in any economy. It's part of life. I guess that CCP couldn't warn us of the incoming nerf as this would have caused chaos on the market for weeks before hand. Who amongst you wouldn't have shifted to J.I.T. small time production model with limited sales outlets? That would have been bad for the missile dependant punters.
My main concern on this is that unless missiles get a functionality nerf they will become too favoured. The damage /cost ratio of missiles is now on a par with standard ammo, (again I haven't done the maths but it must be close).
As for the decrease in turnover; Yes we will just have to face that. BUT I still get the feeling that the mew trade skills will push a lot of part time producers out of the market. It now costs around 8 - 10 mil to get the base skills to get Visability up to a useful level. It's also 9 days training.
The destroyer's under ME 5 costs: I have't seen any but it's ptobably just the same kind of people who don't run the maths on anything they sell. Or even people trying to recoup on BP purchases where they have over exposed themselves.
Awakening, no probs.... 
As for filling peoples missile buy orders with the new cheap missiles, yeah, of course I did. wouldn't you? Sorry.....
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2004.11.30 13:54:00 -
[54]
Edited by: d'hofren on 30/11/2004 14:06:18
Edited by: d'hofren on 30/11/2004 13:57:24
Yep, it is a pity that the market has been flipped but this kind of thing happens in any economy. It's part of life. I guess that CCP couldn't warn us of the incoming nerf as this would have caused chaos on the market for weeks before hand. Who amongst you wouldn't have shifted to J.I.T. small time production model with limited sales outlets? That would have been bad for the missile dependant punters.
My main concern on this is that unless missiles get a functionality nerf they will become too favoured. The damage /cost ratio of missiles is now on a par with standard ammo, (again I haven't done the maths but it must be close).
As for the decrease in turnover; Yes we will just have to face that. BUT I still get the feeling that the mew trade skills will push a lot of part time producers out of the market. It now costs around 8 - 10 mil to get the base skills to get Visability up to a useful level. It's also 9 days training.
The destroyer's under ME 5 costs: I have't seen any but it's ptobably just the same kind of people who don't run the maths on anything they sell. Or even people trying to recoup on BP purchases where they have over exposed themselves.
Awakening, no probs....
As for filling peoples missile buy orders with the new cheap missiles, yeah, of course I did. wouldn't you? Sorry.....
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belzebub1
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Posted - 2004.11.30 20:01:00 -
[55]
After CCP said they were adjusting the min requirements for missiles months back my corp got rid of all of our stock. At that stage we had about 45,000 missiles mostly Torps Cruise. I am glad we bailed out of the market then
Hopefully all you guys find other areas to make a few isk
![]()
Dont forget to visit Magma Index at the below Link.
http://www.magmaindex.uni.cc/ |
belzebub1
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Posted - 2004.11.30 20:01:00 -
[56]
After CCP said they were adjusting the min requirements for missiles months back my corp got rid of all of our stock. At that stage we had about 45,000 missiles mostly Torps Cruise. I am glad we bailed out of the market then
Hopefully all you guys find other areas to make a few isk
![]()
Dont forget to visit Magma Index at the below Link.
http://www.magmaindex.uni.cc/ |
000Hunter000
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Posted - 2004.11.30 22:09:00 -
[57]
well... tried to sell a batch of CM's, way way lower then even the cheapest price in sinq, but no one touched them... as of now there still the cheapest CM's around but apparently nobody buys CM's in sinq 
Anyways, if any of u guys want to get rid of their bpo's, contact me, i'm willing to buy a paradise PBO of u for a fair price still, and perhaps the cataclysm and wrath too, depending on what u ask.
signature? What signature? ;) |
000Hunter000
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Posted - 2004.11.30 22:09:00 -
[58]
well... tried to sell a batch of CM's, way way lower then even the cheapest price in sinq, but no one touched them... as of now there still the cheapest CM's around but apparently nobody buys CM's in sinq
Anyways, if any of u guys want to get rid of their bpo's, contact me, i'm willing to buy a paradise PBO of u for a fair price still, and perhaps the cataclysm and wrath too, depending on what u ask.
signature? What signature? ;) |
n00n3r
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Posted - 2004.12.01 00:45:00 -
[59]
thats because your not selling them low enough 000hunter000.
after figuring the math @ new prices and STILL adding a hefty profit margin i'm able to offer rock bottom prices in cruise missles. and so far i have sold many stacks of 20k.
customers are not stupid, especially those willing to buy bulk, they know what the cost is & they won't buy anything that doesn't come close to that price.
keep looking in the market. i'll drop a stack off in sinq liason just so you can see what these buggers really cost now.
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n00n3r
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Posted - 2004.12.01 00:45:00 -
[60]
thats because your not selling them low enough 000hunter000.
after figuring the math @ new prices and STILL adding a hefty profit margin i'm able to offer rock bottom prices in cruise missles. and so far i have sold many stacks of 20k.
customers are not stupid, especially those willing to buy bulk, they know what the cost is & they won't buy anything that doesn't come close to that price.
keep looking in the market. i'll drop a stack off in sinq liason just so you can see what these buggers really cost now.
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