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TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:08:00 -
[1]
Just realised that these now make 100 per run, instead of 10 - but with no extra mineral requirements. The result, Torpedos for just hundreds of isk a piece to make, Heavy Missiles for tens of isk, Light Missiles for single figures and Rockets you'll have to pay to get rid of 
Please tell me this is a bug, i knew Missiles in general were overpriced, but this is alittle extreme? Who is going to buy medium hybrid ammo when you can get Heavy Missiles for the same price that do more damage?
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TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.25 10:08:00 -
[2]
Just realised that these now make 100 per run, instead of 10 - but with no extra mineral requirements. The result, Torpedos for just hundreds of isk a piece to make, Heavy Missiles for tens of isk, Light Missiles for single figures and Rockets you'll have to pay to get rid of
Please tell me this is a bug, i knew Missiles in general were overpriced, but this is alittle extreme? Who is going to buy medium hybrid ammo when you can get Heavy Missiles for the same price that do more damage?
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Cirle
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Posted - 2004.11.25 11:00:00 -
[3]
Last two times the missiles changed there were no announcements that I recall; the first being the change from 1 to 10 per run, the second being the drop of mineral requirements by 1/2 to 1/3.
Hurrah for the missile toting hunters, sadness for the missile making manufacturers ;)
Cirle |
Cirle
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Posted - 2004.11.25 11:00:00 -
[4]
Last two times the missiles changed there were no announcements that I recall; the first being the change from 1 to 10 per run, the second being the drop of mineral requirements by 1/2 to 1/3.
Hurrah for the missile toting hunters, sadness for the missile making manufacturers ;)
Cirle |
d'hofren
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Posted - 2004.11.25 11:21:00 -
[5]
Edited by: d'hofren on 25/11/2004 11:24:28
Yep, but this is plain silly.
A foxfire rocket now costs around 1/3 of a Phased plasma small round.
Has anyone noticed if the NPC's have changed base price on these? If not that might show this as a bug.
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2004.11.25 11:21:00 -
[6]
Edited by: d'hofren on 25/11/2004 11:24:28
Yep, but this is plain silly.
A foxfire rocket now costs around 1/3 of a Phased plasma small round.
Has anyone noticed if the NPC's have changed base price on these? If not that might show this as a bug.
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TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.25 11:51:00 -
[7]
Market was down while i checked this, so couldn't check the NPC price. I could understand maybe halving the cost of missiles... but this much seems TOO much to be deliberate 
Bad news for whomever had around 35,000 missiles stocked up for the Level 4 agents realease (where's the "cry" smilie?)
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TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.25 11:51:00 -
[8]
Market was down while i checked this, so couldn't check the NPC price. I could understand maybe halving the cost of missiles... but this much seems TOO much to be deliberate
Bad news for whomever had around 35,000 missiles stocked up for the Level 4 agents realease (where's the "cry" smilie?)
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Cirle
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Posted - 2004.11.25 12:49:00 -
[9]
 Originally by: TheAwakening
Bad news for whomever had around 35,000 missiles stocked up for the Level 4 agents realease (where's the "cry" smilie?)
I have somewhere between one hundred to two hundred thousand missiles in stock (mostly cruise, a few heavies). I'm guessing this change wiped somewhere between 150 to 250 million off of my net worth, but I'll never really know.
Bittersweet is the icon you would be looking for... clearly we manufacturers of ammunition have too much money :|
Cirle |
Cirle
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Posted - 2004.11.25 12:49:00 -
[10]
Originally by: TheAwakening
Bad news for whomever had around 35,000 missiles stocked up for the Level 4 agents realease (where's the "cry" smilie?)
I have somewhere between one hundred to two hundred thousand missiles in stock (mostly cruise, a few heavies). I'm guessing this change wiped somewhere between 150 to 250 million off of my net worth, but I'll never really know.
Bittersweet is the icon you would be looking for... clearly we manufacturers of ammunition have too much money :|
Cirle |
Ki Shodan
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Posted - 2004.11.25 12:52:00 -
[11]
hey, ISD do something usefull:
delete this thread, so i might be able to get some of my, NOW REALLY overpriced, missiles stock sold.
thru this nice change i made approximatly 100 M loss only in mineral networth.
dear DEVs, is this what you call ISK-sink?
i, as freelancer, spent several week to aquire these values, why did you just destroy it? is there any reason? will i be compensated? no?
oh and while you are at it insert your favourite bad language in here:
...............................................
(this is expresses my current feelings about you, dear devs! as far as ISD would let me ....) |
Ki Shodan
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Posted - 2004.11.25 12:52:00 -
[12]
hey, ISD do something usefull:
delete this thread, so i might be able to get some of my, NOW REALLY overpriced, missiles stock sold.
thru this nice change i made approximatly 100 M loss only in mineral networth.
dear DEVs, is this what you call ISK-sink?
i, as freelancer, spent several week to aquire these values, why did you just destroy it? is there any reason? will i be compensated? no?
oh and while you are at it insert your favourite bad language in here:
...............................................
(this is expresses my current feelings about you, dear devs! as far as ISD would let me ....) |
Tomas Nuerin
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Posted - 2004.11.25 12:57:00 -
[13]
Damn this. Just bought minerals and made 10k of each cruise missiles to market before patch. Tought they would come in need because of new lvl4 agents.
And yet someone had to make a thread about this... Good bye to my money 
--
You cannot activate your microwarpdrive because natural phenomena are disrupting the warp. |
Tomas Nuerin
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Posted - 2004.11.25 12:57:00 -
[14]
Damn this. Just bought minerals and made 10k of each cruise missiles to market before patch. Tought they would come in need because of new lvl4 agents.
And yet someone had to make a thread about this... Good bye to my money
--
You cannot activate your microwarpdrive because natural phenomena are disrupting the warp. |
TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.25 13:57:00 -
[15]
Edited by: TheAwakening on 25/11/2004 14:02:20
yes... someone had to make a thread about this to get it changed back.
ISDs/GMs/Devs, can i please get some confirmation that this is indeed a bug and will be changed back 
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TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.25 13:57:00 -
[16]
Edited by: TheAwakening on 25/11/2004 14:02:20
yes... someone had to make a thread about this to get it changed back.
ISDs/GMs/Devs, can i please get some confirmation that this is indeed a bug and will be changed back
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Tomas Nuerin
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Posted - 2004.11.25 14:52:00 -
[17]
Has anyone seen any information about this bpo change? This is too big change to make without informing ppl first. My losses are going to be tens of millions. And that's a lots of money for a light industry and agent running character like myself.
--
You cannot activate your microwarpdrive because natural phenomena are disrupting the warp. |
Tomas Nuerin
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Posted - 2004.11.25 14:52:00 -
[18]
Has anyone seen any information about this bpo change? This is too big change to make without informing ppl first. My losses are going to be tens of millions. And that's a lots of money for a light industry and agent running character like myself.
--
You cannot activate your microwarpdrive because natural phenomena are disrupting the warp. |
Jim Steele
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Posted - 2004.11.25 15:00:00 -
[19]
if you suspect its a bug it might be wise posting it in the exodus forum somewhere or submitting a bug report, in the meantime i suggest you start a 1000 run build of as many torps and missiles as you can afford 
Death to the Galante |
Jim Steele
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Posted - 2004.11.25 15:00:00 -
[20]
if you suspect its a bug it might be wise posting it in the exodus forum somewhere or submitting a bug report, in the meantime i suggest you start a 1000 run build of as many torps and missiles as you can afford
Death to the Galante |
TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.25 16:11:00 -
[21]
done & done 
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TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.25 16:11:00 -
[22]
done & done
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Serak Tur
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Posted - 2004.11.26 04:31:00 -
[23]
YAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!
I hope its not a bug. I've made 10s of thousands of missiles and have a few thousand in stock and all I can say is...YAYYYYY!!!!
-Serak Tur
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Serak Tur
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Posted - 2004.11.26 04:31:00 -
[24]
YAAAAAAAAAAAAY!!
I hope its not a bug. I've made 10s of thousands of missiles and have a few thousand in stock and all I can say is...YAYYYYY!!!!
-Serak Tur
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Serak Tur
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Posted - 2004.11.26 04:32:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Serak Tur on 26/11/2004 04:36:15
-First dbl post ever 
-Serak Tur
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Serak Tur
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Posted - 2004.11.26 04:32:00 -
[26]
Edited by: Serak Tur on 26/11/2004 04:36:15
-First dbl post ever
-Serak Tur
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Weix
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Posted - 2004.11.26 08:42:00 -
[27]
Bunch of dumbo's, listen up:
This 100 for 10 thing seems all great, but only if u use the stuff ureself. This bug will totally kill the entire eve missle/torp market for weeks to come. Juggernauts for 1000 isk, widows for 100 isk, u know what this means: no profit, extreme supplies, stockpiles for months to come and say goodbye to ure missles manufacturing carreer. CCP u better fix this fast or lose manufacturers by the dozen....including me.
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Weix
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Posted - 2004.11.26 08:42:00 -
[28]
Bunch of dumbo's, listen up:
This 100 for 10 thing seems all great, but only if u use the stuff ureself. This bug will totally kill the entire eve missle/torp market for weeks to come. Juggernauts for 1000 isk, widows for 100 isk, u know what this means: no profit, extreme supplies, stockpiles for months to come and say goodbye to ure missles manufacturing carreer. CCP u better fix this fast or lose manufacturers by the dozen....including me.
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2004.11.26 11:05:00 -
[29]
Edited by: d'hofren on 26/11/2004 11:09:56
well,
The npc's seem to be selling at the same price as before. Also the BP spec's listed on this site show all missile BPO's as producing 100 item batches.
If you had huge stock of missiles before exodus then I feel rather sorry for you. Personally I keep my equity in a stable form during any potentially risk periods. That means my assets were safe in ISK during the upgrade. Some folks like to bet on the market though....
In the long term this will not effect the market for sellers. The percentage profit on your minerals is exactly the same. All you have to do is move the decimal place in your selling price. Sales will just move slower that's all.
It does give missile users an unholy DOT / ISK cost ratio, (I suspect, but I haven't done the maths).
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2004.11.26 11:05:00 -
[30]
Edited by: d'hofren on 26/11/2004 11:09:56
well,
The npc's seem to be selling at the same price as before. Also the BP spec's listed on this site show all missile BPO's as producing 100 item batches.
If you had huge stock of missiles before exodus then I feel rather sorry for you. Personally I keep my equity in a stable form during any potentially risk periods. That means my assets were safe in ISK during the upgrade. Some folks like to bet on the market though....
In the long term this will not effect the market for sellers. The percentage profit on your minerals is exactly the same. All you have to do is move the decimal place in your selling price. Sales will just move slower that's all.
It does give missile users an unholy DOT / ISK cost ratio, (I suspect, but I haven't done the maths).
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Homerclese
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Posted - 2004.11.26 11:26:00 -
[31]
awsome man , finaly the caldari raven wont cost 90% bounty of a Bship in Torps.
I guess pirate hunting will still bbe profitable again
in a raven.
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Homerclese
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Posted - 2004.11.26 11:26:00 -
[32]
awsome man , finaly the caldari raven wont cost 90% bounty of a Bship in Torps.
I guess pirate hunting will still bbe profitable again
in a raven.
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Weix
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Posted - 2004.11.26 11:56:00 -
[33]
Who claims this wont affect the market is a moron. Supply will increase 10 fold. Prices will drop accordingly. Big deal, u might say...ever heard of deflation?
My clients will be able to buy 10 missles for the price of 1 missle. Maby they will spend an even amount of money, but their stocks will be 10x bigger now, which means it will take 10 times longer before these guys will come to me again asking for missles. This whole situations only benefits the fighters who use the missles, but will totally destroy the manufacturers.
The only way to stop this deflation is to keep prices up like they used to be, and dont flood the market with supplies.
Iam wondering why most manufacuturers dont get my point.....
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Weix
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Posted - 2004.11.26 11:56:00 -
[34]
Who claims this wont affect the market is a moron. Supply will increase 10 fold. Prices will drop accordingly. Big deal, u might say...ever heard of deflation?
My clients will be able to buy 10 missles for the price of 1 missle. Maby they will spend an even amount of money, but their stocks will be 10x bigger now, which means it will take 10 times longer before these guys will come to me again asking for missles. This whole situations only benefits the fighters who use the missles, but will totally destroy the manufacturers.
The only way to stop this deflation is to keep prices up like they used to be, and dont flood the market with supplies.
Iam wondering why most manufacuturers dont get my point.....
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WhiteTiger
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Posted - 2004.11.26 12:56:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Weix
Who claims this wont affect the market is a moron. Supply will increase 10 fold. Prices will drop accordingly. Big deal, u might say...ever heard of deflation?
My clients will be able to buy 10 missles for the price of 1 missle. Maby they will spend an even amount of money, but their stocks will be 10x bigger now, which means it will take 10 times longer before these guys will come to me again asking for missles. This whole situations only benefits the fighters who use the missles, but will totally destroy the manufacturers.
The only way to stop this deflation is to keep prices up like they used to be, and dont flood the market with supplies.
Iam wondering why most manufacuturers dont get my point.....
Because most manufacturers might understand that new level 4 missions have been released. The raven was one of the better ships to use for easy of use before since doesn't have tracking issues, however you would use up almost all the bounties on ammo making it much less profitable - as a result many people would use other ships if they could. Now with cheap missiles expect mission runner all through empire to be spamming missiles like crazy. I expect you could have a much higher demand for torps.
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WhiteTiger
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Posted - 2004.11.26 12:56:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Weix
Who claims this wont affect the market is a moron. Supply will increase 10 fold. Prices will drop accordingly. Big deal, u might say...ever heard of deflation?
My clients will be able to buy 10 missles for the price of 1 missle. Maby they will spend an even amount of money, but their stocks will be 10x bigger now, which means it will take 10 times longer before these guys will come to me again asking for missles. This whole situations only benefits the fighters who use the missles, but will totally destroy the manufacturers.
The only way to stop this deflation is to keep prices up like they used to be, and dont flood the market with supplies.
Iam wondering why most manufacuturers dont get my point.....
Because most manufacturers might understand that new level 4 missions have been released. The raven was one of the better ships to use for easy of use before since doesn't have tracking issues, however you would use up almost all the bounties on ammo making it much less profitable - as a result many people would use other ships if they could. Now with cheap missiles expect mission runner all through empire to be spamming missiles like crazy. I expect you could have a much higher demand for torps.
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2004.11.26 13:34:00 -
[37]
Edited by: d'hofren on 26/11/2004 13:39:40
now hold your horses, this is an erudite and civilized conversation. There is no need to call people either a moron or a dumb ass. It achieves nothing, if anything it just makes people ignore your post.
In my post I did say that turnover would decrease, up until now missiles have been a nice cash cow. ho hum.
As for deflation. Well maybe. You should ALWAYS be able to turn a profit on missiles. Unless someone is seliing at below Cost Price. If that is happening then sit on your stock untill the market recovers.
You as a producer have a natural advantage over the NPC seller.
sabre tooth light missile.
Base price according to eve-o = 760 so a batch of 100 = 7.6isk
Build your own with avrg min prices and no ME or PE skills and it comes in at around 6.5 isk a missile. That's a 8% margin to work in before you even get ME and PE into the equation. That places your entry point under NPC's. Half decent PE and ME should give you nearer 20% margin to play with. in RL even a 10% return on your money is ok.
As long as no one tries to flood the market you should be fine. If someone does flood the market then find a new selling site . After all we have always had to cope with people who can't do the numbers borking the local market with daftly priced sell orders. The new visability skill should stop one daft price from slewing the whole market now anyhow.
Even with this situation. I stumbled on a way to get a 47% ROI from the new missile prices. That should last a few days.
HTH
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2004.11.26 13:34:00 -
[38]
Edited by: d'hofren on 26/11/2004 13:39:40
now hold your horses, this is an erudite and civilized conversation. There is no need to call people either a moron or a dumb ass. It achieves nothing, if anything it just makes people ignore your post.
In my post I did say that turnover would decrease, up until now missiles have been a nice cash cow. ho hum.
As for deflation. Well maybe. You should ALWAYS be able to turn a profit on missiles. Unless someone is seliing at below Cost Price. If that is happening then sit on your stock untill the market recovers.
You as a producer have a natural advantage over the NPC seller.
sabre tooth light missile.
Base price according to eve-o = 760 so a batch of 100 = 7.6isk
Build your own with avrg min prices and no ME or PE skills and it comes in at around 6.5 isk a missile. That's a 8% margin to work in before you even get ME and PE into the equation. That places your entry point under NPC's. Half decent PE and ME should give you nearer 20% margin to play with. in RL even a 10% return on your money is ok.
As long as no one tries to flood the market you should be fine. If someone does flood the market then find a new selling site . After all we have always had to cope with people who can't do the numbers borking the local market with daftly priced sell orders. The new visability skill should stop one daft price from slewing the whole market now anyhow.
Even with this situation. I stumbled on a way to get a 47% ROI from the new missile prices. That should last a few days.
HTH
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TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.26 17:52:00 -
[39]
i'm seeing the missile market going under before my very eyes.
thank the wonderful undercutters for that i guess.
If one of these marvellous people that price their products by taking x-hundred off the cheapest in the region to sell things;
a)You kill entire markets with your lack of knowledge and brain power. You kill them for yourselves but don't seem to realise this. Therefore, you suck.
b)YOU DON'T NEED TO BE THE CHEAPEST IN AN ENTIRE REGION TO SELL YOUR PRODUCTS
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TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.26 17:52:00 -
[40]
i'm seeing the missile market going under before my very eyes.
thank the wonderful undercutters for that i guess.
If one of these marvellous people that price their products by taking x-hundred off the cheapest in the region to sell things;
a)You kill entire markets with your lack of knowledge and brain power. You kill them for yourselves but don't seem to realise this. Therefore, you suck.
b)YOU DON'T NEED TO BE THE CHEAPEST IN AN ENTIRE REGION TO SELL YOUR PRODUCTS
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Weix
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Posted - 2004.11.26 17:58:00 -
[41]
TheAwakaning: i totally agree with u.
Hofren: Sry for calling u a moron, but u still havent made a comment on the fact that the buy frequency will also drop 10-fold, which means we manufacturers will earn 10 times less isk/time. THATS the main problem here as far as iam concerned.
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Weix
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Posted - 2004.11.26 17:58:00 -
[42]
TheAwakaning: i totally agree with u.
Hofren: Sry for calling u a moron, but u still havent made a comment on the fact that the buy frequency will also drop 10-fold, which means we manufacturers will earn 10 times less isk/time. THATS the main problem here as far as iam concerned.
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TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.26 18:41:00 -
[43]
Edited by: TheAwakening on 26/11/2004 18:45:39
Absolutley. As i stated in my other thread (trying to get an Dev/Gm/ISD's attention elsewhere!), i used to supply corps with Cruise/Torps. Bulk buying of 10,000 was about the norm.
For arguments sake, lets say i earned 100m a week selling missiles. Even though i will be able to produce x10 missiles than i could before, i am unlikely to sell more than i was doing before in the same timeframe! Therefore going from 100m a week income to 10m income, selling the same amount of missiles. People aren't going to buy more missiles just because they can afford to. They'll keep the money they've saved (10k Mjolnirs pre-exodus ~30m, exodus ~3m... 27m!!!) and buy better modules/ships, leaving us missile producers right up the wazoo.
Not to mention the impact on the other ammunition markets this will have. As i stated in my original post, who's now going to buy medium hybrid ammo, when a heavy missile will be around the same price, doing a higher, more consistant damage?
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TheAwakening
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Posted - 2004.11.26 18:41:00 -
[44]
Edited by: TheAwakening on 26/11/2004 18:45:39
Absolutley. As i stated in my other thread (trying to get an Dev/Gm/ISD's attention elsewhere!), i used to supply corps with Cruise/Torps. Bulk buying of 10,000 was about the norm.
For arguments sake, lets say i earned 100m a week selling missiles. Even though i will be able to produce x10 missiles than i could before, i am unlikely to sell more than i was doing before in the same timeframe! Therefore going from 100m a week income to 10m income, selling the same amount of missiles. People aren't going to buy more missiles just because they can afford to. They'll keep the money they've saved (10k Mjolnirs pre-exodus ~30m, exodus ~3m... 27m!!!) and buy better modules/ships, leaving us missile producers right up the wazoo.
Not to mention the impact on the other ammunition markets this will have. As i stated in my original post, who's now going to buy medium hybrid ammo, when a heavy missile will be around the same price, doing a higher, more consistant damage?
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MajorGeneral Ponsonby
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Posted - 2004.11.27 08:09:00 -
[45]
Whats especially nice if you had BUY ORDERS for hundreds of millions in isk worth of missiles WHICH YOU CANT CANCEL and then all the vultures JUMP onto those orders and you LOSE 100s of million of isk BECAUSE NOBODY NOTIFIED YOU OF THESE CHANGES before the release.
Yay for market nerfs!
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MajorGeneral Ponsonby
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Posted - 2004.11.27 08:09:00 -
[46]
Whats especially nice if you had BUY ORDERS for hundreds of millions in isk worth of missiles WHICH YOU CANT CANCEL and then all the vultures JUMP onto those orders and you LOSE 100s of million of isk BECAUSE NOBODY NOTIFIED YOU OF THESE CHANGES before the release.
Yay for market nerfs!
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Raaki
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:23:00 -
[47]
Unbelievable man, how could they have done this unanounced.
This change has cost corps hundreds of millions. As i have produced big stockpiles of torps, cruise everything just before this change was made. All those invested minerals are now gone, wasted.
Tnxs verry much ccp. 
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Raaki
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:23:00 -
[48]
Unbelievable man, how could they have done this unanounced.
This change has cost corps hundreds of millions. As i have produced big stockpiles of torps, cruise everything just before this change was made. All those invested minerals are now gone, wasted.
Tnxs verry much ccp.
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:53:00 -
[49]
Originally by: MajorGeneral Ponsonby
Whats especially nice if you had BUY ORDERS for hundreds of millions in isk worth of missiles WHICH YOU CANT CANCEL and then all the vultures JUMP onto those orders and you LOSE 100s of million of isk BECAUSE NOBODY NOTIFIED YOU OF THESE CHANGES before the release.
Yay for market nerfs!
Why can't ya cancel them ? Just fly to the area the order was placed... "Cancel Order" done... or did I miss the CCP announcement....or it just to far for your Trade Skill range ?
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Vigilant
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Posted - 2004.11.29 22:53:00 -
[50]
Originally by: MajorGeneral Ponsonby
Whats especially nice if you had BUY ORDERS for hundreds of millions in isk worth of missiles WHICH YOU CANT CANCEL and then all the vultures JUMP onto those orders and you LOSE 100s of million of isk BECAUSE NOBODY NOTIFIED YOU OF THESE CHANGES before the release.
Yay for market nerfs!
Why can't ya cancel them ? Just fly to the area the order was placed... "Cancel Order" done... or did I miss the CCP announcement....or it just to far for your Trade Skill range ?
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nieo
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Posted - 2004.11.30 01:36:00 -
[51]
Yay!
Similar change when Castor hit Tranquility if I recall correct. I like it. I also like the stupid producers selling Destroyers for 500k below production cost with a ME0/PE5 bpo/char.
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nieo
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Posted - 2004.11.30 01:36:00 -
[52]
Yay!
Similar change when Castor hit Tranquility if I recall correct. I like it. I also like the stupid producers selling Destroyers for 500k below production cost with a ME0/PE5 bpo/char.
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2004.11.30 13:54:00 -
[53]
Edited by: d'hofren on 30/11/2004 14:06:18
Edited by: d'hofren on 30/11/2004 13:57:24
Yep, it is a pity that the market has been flipped but this kind of thing happens in any economy. It's part of life. I guess that CCP couldn't warn us of the incoming nerf as this would have caused chaos on the market for weeks before hand. Who amongst you wouldn't have shifted to J.I.T. small time production model with limited sales outlets? That would have been bad for the missile dependant punters.
My main concern on this is that unless missiles get a functionality nerf they will become too favoured. The damage /cost ratio of missiles is now on a par with standard ammo, (again I haven't done the maths but it must be close).
As for the decrease in turnover; Yes we will just have to face that. BUT I still get the feeling that the mew trade skills will push a lot of part time producers out of the market. It now costs around 8 - 10 mil to get the base skills to get Visability up to a useful level. It's also 9 days training.
The destroyer's under ME 5 costs: I have't seen any but it's ptobably just the same kind of people who don't run the maths on anything they sell. Or even people trying to recoup on BP purchases where they have over exposed themselves.
Awakening, no probs....
As for filling peoples missile buy orders with the new cheap missiles, yeah, of course I did. wouldn't you? Sorry.....
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2004.11.30 13:54:00 -
[54]
Edited by: d'hofren on 30/11/2004 14:06:18
Edited by: d'hofren on 30/11/2004 13:57:24
Yep, it is a pity that the market has been flipped but this kind of thing happens in any economy. It's part of life. I guess that CCP couldn't warn us of the incoming nerf as this would have caused chaos on the market for weeks before hand. Who amongst you wouldn't have shifted to J.I.T. small time production model with limited sales outlets? That would have been bad for the missile dependant punters.
My main concern on this is that unless missiles get a functionality nerf they will become too favoured. The damage /cost ratio of missiles is now on a par with standard ammo, (again I haven't done the maths but it must be close).
As for the decrease in turnover; Yes we will just have to face that. BUT I still get the feeling that the mew trade skills will push a lot of part time producers out of the market. It now costs around 8 - 10 mil to get the base skills to get Visability up to a useful level. It's also 9 days training.
The destroyer's under ME 5 costs: I have't seen any but it's ptobably just the same kind of people who don't run the maths on anything they sell. Or even people trying to recoup on BP purchases where they have over exposed themselves.
Awakening, no probs....
As for filling peoples missile buy orders with the new cheap missiles, yeah, of course I did. wouldn't you? Sorry.....
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belzebub1
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Posted - 2004.11.30 20:01:00 -
[55]
After CCP said they were adjusting the min requirements for missiles months back my corp got rid of all of our stock. At that stage we had about 45,000 missiles mostly Torps Cruise. I am glad we bailed out of the market then
Hopefully all you guys find other areas to make a few isk
![]()
Dont forget to visit Magma Index at the below Link.
http://www.magmaindex.uni.cc/ |
belzebub1
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Posted - 2004.11.30 20:01:00 -
[56]
After CCP said they were adjusting the min requirements for missiles months back my corp got rid of all of our stock. At that stage we had about 45,000 missiles mostly Torps Cruise. I am glad we bailed out of the market then
Hopefully all you guys find other areas to make a few isk
![]()
Dont forget to visit Magma Index at the below Link.
http://www.magmaindex.uni.cc/ |
000Hunter000
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Posted - 2004.11.30 22:09:00 -
[57]
well... tried to sell a batch of CM's, way way lower then even the cheapest price in sinq, but no one touched them... as of now there still the cheapest CM's around but apparently nobody buys CM's in sinq
Anyways, if any of u guys want to get rid of their bpo's, contact me, i'm willing to buy a paradise PBO of u for a fair price still, and perhaps the cataclysm and wrath too, depending on what u ask.
signature? What signature? ;) |
000Hunter000
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Posted - 2004.11.30 22:09:00 -
[58]
well... tried to sell a batch of CM's, way way lower then even the cheapest price in sinq, but no one touched them... as of now there still the cheapest CM's around but apparently nobody buys CM's in sinq
Anyways, if any of u guys want to get rid of their bpo's, contact me, i'm willing to buy a paradise PBO of u for a fair price still, and perhaps the cataclysm and wrath too, depending on what u ask.
signature? What signature? ;) |
n00n3r
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Posted - 2004.12.01 00:45:00 -
[59]
thats because your not selling them low enough 000hunter000.
after figuring the math @ new prices and STILL adding a hefty profit margin i'm able to offer rock bottom prices in cruise missles. and so far i have sold many stacks of 20k.
customers are not stupid, especially those willing to buy bulk, they know what the cost is & they won't buy anything that doesn't come close to that price.
keep looking in the market. i'll drop a stack off in sinq liason just so you can see what these buggers really cost now.
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n00n3r
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Posted - 2004.12.01 00:45:00 -
[60]
thats because your not selling them low enough 000hunter000.
after figuring the math @ new prices and STILL adding a hefty profit margin i'm able to offer rock bottom prices in cruise missles. and so far i have sold many stacks of 20k.
customers are not stupid, especially those willing to buy bulk, they know what the cost is & they won't buy anything that doesn't come close to that price.
keep looking in the market. i'll drop a stack off in sinq liason just so you can see what these buggers really cost now.
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2004.12.01 08:53:00 -
[61]
I think most of you are overreacting.
Sure, you'll make less profit margin with missiles (in absolute terms), but since missile users will now be more trigger happay, and since more ppl will start using missile boats, you'll also sell more of them. There's also a market rule that say that the cheaper the item is to build, the more margin ratio you can make and still sell it (for exmaple, who make a 50% ratio on battleships and still sell them?). Saying that you'll make 10 times less money is false.
Second, most of you know that missile changes were coming, and that among those suggested change, there was a big missile cost reduction. If you think about it, you'll also realize that if the Devs had warned beforehand that missiles were going to cost much less, everyone would have stopped the production, causing a major inflation.
So, the wisdom of keeping huge missile stocks was questionable, to say the least.
You lost hundreds of millions worth of minerals? Well, that suck, but it's more your fault than Dev's responsability.
If you think missile production isn't profitable anymore, you can easily start building something else, it's not as if your skills suddenly became useless, after all.
/me put on flame sheild.
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Shadowsword
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Posted - 2004.12.01 08:53:00 -
[62]
I think most of you are overreacting.
Sure, you'll make less profit margin with missiles (in absolute terms), but since missile users will now be more trigger happay, and since more ppl will start using missile boats, you'll also sell more of them. There's also a market rule that say that the cheaper the item is to build, the more margin ratio you can make and still sell it (for exmaple, who make a 50% ratio on battleships and still sell them?). Saying that you'll make 10 times less money is false.
Second, most of you know that missile changes were coming, and that among those suggested change, there was a big missile cost reduction. If you think about it, you'll also realize that if the Devs had warned beforehand that missiles were going to cost much less, everyone would have stopped the production, causing a major inflation.
So, the wisdom of keeping huge missile stocks was questionable, to say the least.
You lost hundreds of millions worth of minerals? Well, that suck, but it's more your fault than Dev's responsability.
If you think missile production isn't profitable anymore, you can easily start building something else, it's not as if your skills suddenly became useless, after all.
/me put on flame sheild.
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Kadarin
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Posted - 2004.12.02 01:39:00 -
[63]
Actually, it might not be a bad time to produce and sell missiles, unless you want to compete for razor thin margins in Yulai, Nonni, and other highway systems. Folks who buy missiles in groups of 1000 or so for personal use probably won't care about a 10isk difference in price if it's more convenient to buy in the system they're already in. Look for new markets, and also consider selling stuff in systems like Egbinger, Torrinos, Saranen, etc...
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Kadarin
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Posted - 2004.12.02 01:39:00 -
[64]
Actually, it might not be a bad time to produce and sell missiles, unless you want to compete for razor thin margins in Yulai, Nonni, and other highway systems. Folks who buy missiles in groups of 1000 or so for personal use probably won't care about a 10isk difference in price if it's more convenient to buy in the system they're already in. Look for new markets, and also consider selling stuff in systems like Egbinger, Torrinos, Saranen, etc...
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MajorGeneral Ponsonby
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Posted - 2004.12.02 12:58:00 -
[65]
Where in the patch notes did they annouce this change? I just went through them half an hour and could find a word about it?
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MajorGeneral Ponsonby
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Posted - 2004.12.02 12:58:00 -
[66]
Where in the patch notes did they annouce this change? I just went through them half an hour and could find a word about it?
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Ricdic
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Posted - 2004.12.02 13:39:00 -
[67]
I feel bad for those of you who lost a lot of cash in manufacturing missiles/torps. But think of how much you have made, just before exodus, some cruise missiles and even torps could be built for 2k each, and were on the market everywhere for minimum of 4,500 each. That is over 100% profit on EVERY single cruise/torp sold.
I dont think any of you should be compensated, however i do think that CCP should have directly mentioned this change, as it is quite large, and even i lost a fair bit, with stockpiles, however this isnt important, as i am a raven user so will still use them.
It is about time CCP sorted this out, now i dont have to watch how many extra torps i fire, when taking that apoc down in hull. NPC hunting/Agent Missions, and even Pvp was horribly expensive for the caldari, and now it is much more acceptable
I am sure there will still be plenty of demand for Torps/Cruise, maybe more-so, as there are plenty of caldari out there, who trained up for amarr bs, just so they could npc hunt cheap. Now they will happily go back to their ravens and scorps, as costs are minimal, in comparison to a few weeks ago.
Hurray CCP
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Ricdic
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Posted - 2004.12.02 13:39:00 -
[68]
I feel bad for those of you who lost a lot of cash in manufacturing missiles/torps. But think of how much you have made, just before exodus, some cruise missiles and even torps could be built for 2k each, and were on the market everywhere for minimum of 4,500 each. That is over 100% profit on EVERY single cruise/torp sold.
I dont think any of you should be compensated, however i do think that CCP should have directly mentioned this change, as it is quite large, and even i lost a fair bit, with stockpiles, however this isnt important, as i am a raven user so will still use them.
It is about time CCP sorted this out, now i dont have to watch how many extra torps i fire, when taking that apoc down in hull. NPC hunting/Agent Missions, and even Pvp was horribly expensive for the caldari, and now it is much more acceptable
I am sure there will still be plenty of demand for Torps/Cruise, maybe more-so, as there are plenty of caldari out there, who trained up for amarr bs, just so they could npc hunt cheap. Now they will happily go back to their ravens and scorps, as costs are minimal, in comparison to a few weeks ago.
Hurray CCP
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Hafthor
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Posted - 2004.12.02 14:34:00 -
[69]
I don't know about anyone else but this change has been expected by me and my corp for a LONG time now.. this doesn't help the ppl that joined the game recently but I for one have been holding back on missile production simply because of the cost.
There will be an increase in missile use but it probably won't cover the loss. However mineral prices should go down on account of the new barges and that might even out the situation. You also need to take into account things like ppl carrying lots more missiles on their ships now and therefore possibly losing them all in one go.
And ofcourse... theres a risk in keeping large stocks.. thats just the way things are.
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Hafthor
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Posted - 2004.12.02 14:34:00 -
[70]
I don't know about anyone else but this change has been expected by me and my corp for a LONG time now.. this doesn't help the ppl that joined the game recently but I for one have been holding back on missile production simply because of the cost.
There will be an increase in missile use but it probably won't cover the loss. However mineral prices should go down on account of the new barges and that might even out the situation. You also need to take into account things like ppl carrying lots more missiles on their ships now and therefore possibly losing them all in one go.
And ofcourse... theres a risk in keeping large stocks.. thats just the way things are.
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000Hunter000
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Posted - 2004.12.02 22:04:00 -
[71]
apparently i've been too hasty with my words hehehe (well i'm not a real seller or something so i may have been impatient  )
all CM's sold for like 4 times the mineralprice
signature? What signature? ;) |
000Hunter000
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Posted - 2004.12.02 22:04:00 -
[72]
apparently i've been too hasty with my words hehehe (well i'm not a real seller or something so i may have been impatient )
all CM's sold for like 4 times the mineralprice
signature? What signature? ;) |
d'hofren
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Posted - 2004.12.03 16:26:00 -
[73]
There seem to be a lot of people who have't realised yet.
ho hum.
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d'hofren
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Posted - 2004.12.03 16:26:00 -
[74]
There seem to be a lot of people who have't realised yet.
ho hum.
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Heero Yuy
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Posted - 2004.12.03 17:03:00 -
[75]
You see if you have kept this quite of quiet ccp might not have realised......
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Heero Yuy
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Posted - 2004.12.03 17:03:00 -
[76]
You see if you have kept this quite of quiet ccp might not have realised......
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Kalfu
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Posted - 2004.12.04 00:17:00 -
[77]
I'm happy that I had only about 15M worth of missiles for sale at the time of the change. I submitted a bug report for this, but since it might not be a bug I'm producing as many as I can right now; four slots goinf full time churing out cruises/torp, at least until I run out of trit.
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Kalfu
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Posted - 2004.12.04 00:17:00 -
[78]
I'm happy that I had only about 15M worth of missiles for sale at the time of the change. I submitted a bug report for this, but since it might not be a bug I'm producing as many as I can right now; four slots goinf full time churing out cruises/torp, at least until I run out of trit.
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Killer Gandry
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Posted - 2004.12.04 21:23:00 -
[79]
Why complain, the builders never compained when they made huge profits on them at the cost of those using them. Now the missile users can actually make some profit when using missiles and torps.
As long as other people's wallets get hit there isn't a single drop of rain in the sky, but as soon as your own wallet get's a hit then it thunders and pours.
I feel as sorry for the builders as they felt for their customers who had to buy at inflated prices.
Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying |
Killer Gandry
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Posted - 2004.12.04 21:23:00 -
[80]
Why complain, the builders never compained when they made huge profits on them at the cost of those using them. Now the missile users can actually make some profit when using missiles and torps.
As long as other people's wallets get hit there isn't a single drop of rain in the sky, but as soon as your own wallet get's a hit then it thunders and pours.
I feel as sorry for the builders as they felt for their customers who had to buy at inflated prices.
Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying |
Alexi Borizkova
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Posted - 2004.12.05 02:22:00 -
[81]
there is a difference between questionable market practices and being blindsided by the game developers. The industry drying up, ok, that I can deal with, adapt and survive and all that, no hard feelings. But the sudden drop in mineral requirements with not only no prior warning but no compensation?
Basically what they should have done is at patch time multiply all missile stacks by x10. Since the BPS magically changed the missiles could too, I say.
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Alexi Borizkova
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Posted - 2004.12.05 02:22:00 -
[82]
there is a difference between questionable market practices and being blindsided by the game developers. The industry drying up, ok, that I can deal with, adapt and survive and all that, no hard feelings. But the sudden drop in mineral requirements with not only no prior warning but no compensation?
Basically what they should have done is at patch time multiply all missile stacks by x10. Since the BPS magically changed the missiles could too, I say.
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Killer Gandry
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Posted - 2004.12.05 18:11:00 -
[83]
Edited by: Killer Gandry on 05/12/2004 18:14:39
Adapt to that aswell then.
People allways say adapt or move out, now it's time for the ammobuilders to adapt.
Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying |
Killer Gandry
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Posted - 2004.12.05 18:11:00 -
[84]
Edited by: Killer Gandry on 05/12/2004 18:14:39
Adapt to that aswell then.
People allways say adapt or move out, now it's time for the ammobuilders to adapt.
Better to try and fail, then to fail due to not trying |
Aliksr
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Posted - 2004.12.06 08:01:00 -
[85]
Edited by: Aliksr on 06/12/2004 08:05:26
oh i am watching this with absolute glee
the whingeing in this thread should warm the hearts of free marketeers everywhere
02/12 cataclysms selling for 1400 in yulai, undercut at 950 570% margin (at silly-cheap post-patch min prices)
03/12 cataclysms selling for 900 in yulai, undercut at 800 for 440% margin
04/12 cataclysms selling for 750 in yulai, undercut at 700 for 370% margin
05/12 (this morning) cataclysms selling for 690 in yulai, undercut at 600 for 304% margin
you tentatively undercut my orders by 10isk, 10%, and all the way down we go. cruises sold at 4-6% margins pre-patch. i'll keep selling them until they're back in that range. volumes are higher than they were pre-patch as well. it won't last, but i don't care. it's just so much fun!
edit: and they didn't change the run # for torps, but they dropped the zyd req so build prices for torps have dropped to 1/4 not 1/10th their pre-patch cost. torps are now roughly twice as expensive as cruises. interesting, yes?
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Aliksr
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Posted - 2004.12.06 08:01:00 -
[86]
Edited by: Aliksr on 06/12/2004 08:05:26
oh i am watching this with absolute glee
the whingeing in this thread should warm the hearts of free marketeers everywhere
02/12 cataclysms selling for 1400 in yulai, undercut at 950 570% margin (at silly-cheap post-patch min prices)
03/12 cataclysms selling for 900 in yulai, undercut at 800 for 440% margin
04/12 cataclysms selling for 750 in yulai, undercut at 700 for 370% margin
05/12 (this morning) cataclysms selling for 690 in yulai, undercut at 600 for 304% margin
you tentatively undercut my orders by 10isk, 10%, and all the way down we go. cruises sold at 4-6% margins pre-patch. i'll keep selling them until they're back in that range. volumes are higher than they were pre-patch as well. it won't last, but i don't care. it's just so much fun!
edit: and they didn't change the run # for torps, but they dropped the zyd req so build prices for torps have dropped to 1/4 not 1/10th their pre-patch cost. torps are now roughly twice as expensive as cruises. interesting, yes?
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MSDborris
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Posted - 2004.12.10 08:25:00 -
[87]
im a gallente agent runner untill now ive been doing lvl 3 mission in lumin but with these missle changes ill be train'ing and useing a ravern and hope'fully doing lvl 4 on my own.
What this has to do with this thread is i wanna buy BPC for therm/kin hvy/cruiser/fof-cruiser and torp in lumin 7-6 for cheap as i can get,
if im unable to find bpc's to build my own ammo ill prob buy cheap off market after finding out hoe much they cost to build
(( with lvl 4 agent's the reward's have gone up and the total of ravern user's are at an all time HIGH in pvp and Pve ))
adapt,
*****
" MSDborris, " Baka!, Hentia! "
***** |
MSDborris
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Posted - 2004.12.10 08:25:00 -
[88]
im a gallente agent runner untill now ive been doing lvl 3 mission in lumin but with these missle changes ill be train'ing and useing a ravern and hope'fully doing lvl 4 on my own.
What this has to do with this thread is i wanna buy BPC for therm/kin hvy/cruiser/fof-cruiser and torp in lumin 7-6 for cheap as i can get,
if im unable to find bpc's to build my own ammo ill prob buy cheap off market after finding out hoe much they cost to build
(( with lvl 4 agent's the reward's have gone up and the total of ravern user's are at an all time HIGH in pvp and Pve ))
adapt,
*****
" MSDborris, " Baka!, Hentia! "
***** |
Camaro
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Posted - 2004.12.15 10:10:00 -
[89]
Originally by: MSDborris
im a gallente agent runner untill now ive been doing lvl 3 mission in lumin but with these missle changes ill be train'ing and useing a ravern and hope'fully doing lvl 4 on my own.
What this has to do with this thread is i wanna buy BPC for therm/kin hvy/cruiser/fof-cruiser and torp in lumin 7-6 for cheap as i can get,
if im unable to find bpc's to build my own ammo ill prob buy cheap off market after finding out hoe much they cost to build
(( with lvl 4 agent's the reward's have gone up and the total of ravern user's are at an all time HIGH in pvp and Pve ))
adapt,
Well. Take contact with me, and i'll set up for some packages. got Devastator, all heavy atm. 1500 runs packages can be sat quite fast up
Are home at about 7pm eve time i guess.
Camaro
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Camaro
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Posted - 2004.12.15 10:10:00 -
[90]
Originally by: MSDborris
im a gallente agent runner untill now ive been doing lvl 3 mission in lumin but with these missle changes ill be train'ing and useing a ravern and hope'fully doing lvl 4 on my own.
What this has to do with this thread is i wanna buy BPC for therm/kin hvy/cruiser/fof-cruiser and torp in lumin 7-6 for cheap as i can get,
if im unable to find bpc's to build my own ammo ill prob buy cheap off market after finding out hoe much they cost to build
(( with lvl 4 agent's the reward's have gone up and the total of ravern user's are at an all time HIGH in pvp and Pve ))
adapt,
Well. Take contact with me, and i'll set up for some packages. got Devastator, all heavy atm. 1500 runs packages can be sat quite fast up
Are home at about 7pm eve time i guess.
Camaro
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SHR1KE
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Posted - 2004.12.16 19:33:00 -
[91]
Let me get this striaght, you gambled, hoping to capitalize on changes after the patch, and you lost. Now you want to be compensated? Would you say anything if your profit margin got bigger? Despite the profit you have made in the past you are whining about your 'losses' and want to be reimbursed.
All that I can say is get over it things change. Prices, security of systems, agent missions, tracking, module fittings, skills. All of these things have been adjusted through various patches. Adapt or quit, no one likes a whiner. Just wait until the missles themselves get *cough*nerfed*cough* then demand will dry up as fast as you can say WTS Tempest AND Raven.
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SHR1KE
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Posted - 2004.12.16 19:33:00 -
[92]
Let me get this striaght, you gambled, hoping to capitalize on changes after the patch, and you lost. Now you want to be compensated? Would you say anything if your profit margin got bigger? Despite the profit you have made in the past you are whining about your 'losses' and want to be reimbursed.
All that I can say is get over it things change. Prices, security of systems, agent missions, tracking, module fittings, skills. All of these things have been adjusted through various patches. Adapt or quit, no one likes a whiner. Just wait until the missles themselves get *cough*nerfed*cough* then demand will dry up as fast as you can say WTS Tempest AND Raven.
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WilfredTheSmart
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Posted - 2004.12.17 16:11:00 -
[93]
100k of heavys in stock - now worthless.
Business down the tubes!
BPO's that now are worthless!
Petitioned - no joy - any suprise there.
I spent the first few months making missiles and was slowly building up a good selection of BPO and now this.
Ruined - not by market forces but a keystroke 10 to 100.
A joke a complete and utter joke - We will all be flying Ravens - as if missiles boats need anymore advantages.
Was in 0.0 - have to come to empire to mine cas nought is selling - no cash coming in for the ship losses in 0.0
Wilf
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WilfredTheSmart
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Posted - 2004.12.17 16:11:00 -
[94]
100k of heavys in stock - now worthless.
Business down the tubes!
BPO's that now are worthless!
Petitioned - no joy - any suprise there.
I spent the first few months making missiles and was slowly building up a good selection of BPO and now this.
Ruined - not by market forces but a keystroke 10 to 100.
A joke a complete and utter joke - We will all be flying Ravens - as if missiles boats need anymore advantages.
Was in 0.0 - have to come to empire to mine cas nought is selling - no cash coming in for the ship losses in 0.0
Wilf
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Serak Tur
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Posted - 2004.12.17 22:37:00 -
[95]
Edited by: Serak Tur on 17/12/2004 22:39:10
While I agree that the change should have been announced beforehand to let people adjust, I think this is a great change.
I don't sell missiles however I build them to be used in PVP. Missiles took an overly large amount of minerals to produce.
Now, instead on pouring minerals into missiles I can actually build other usefull things. So, if I were making missiles for cash I might be upset, but since thats not the case I'm very happy.
It might even make missile using ships more viable (or at least easier to supply) for extended offensive operations, and certainly better for NPCing.
-Serak Tur
edited for spelling
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Serak Tur
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Posted - 2004.12.17 22:37:00 -
[96]
Edited by: Serak Tur on 17/12/2004 22:39:10
While I agree that the change should have been announced beforehand to let people adjust, I think this is a great change.
I don't sell missiles however I build them to be used in PVP. Missiles took an overly large amount of minerals to produce.
Now, instead on pouring minerals into missiles I can actually build other usefull things. So, if I were making missiles for cash I might be upset, but since thats not the case I'm very happy.
It might even make missile using ships more viable (or at least easier to supply) for extended offensive operations, and certainly better for NPCing.
-Serak Tur
edited for spelling
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Zarin
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Posted - 2004.12.20 14:14:00 -
[97]
I lost millions on the face value of my stock with Shiva, but probably made about the same back in inflated sales of new stock in the week or so following. Unfortunately what was a good earner now isn't really worth doing. (You get a much higher margin and throughput on other products). So yeah, prices are going to be down, but supplies will be available at less convenient locations. And as a user of missiles I thought they were good value as it was, so what if it costs a 200isk missile to kill a 2500isk rat, that's still 2300isk clear.
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Zarin
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Posted - 2004.12.20 14:14:00 -
[98]
I lost millions on the face value of my stock with Shiva, but probably made about the same back in inflated sales of new stock in the week or so following. Unfortunately what was a good earner now isn't really worth doing. (You get a much higher margin and throughput on other products). So yeah, prices are going to be down, but supplies will be available at less convenient locations. And as a user of missiles I thought they were good value as it was, so what if it costs a 200isk missile to kill a 2500isk rat, that's still 2300isk clear.
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Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2004.12.21 09:08:00 -
[99]
I've been a missile user ever since i got into a cruiser and always thought that missiles were over priced compared to the cost of using other weapons of equivalent sixe.
Always built my own missiles too and this is a big improvement IMGO
Yeah i lost a few mill on the missiles i ghad in stock. but hey i can recoup that soon enough.
As for stating that everyone will now use ravens well i always have used a Raven or a scorpion as my BS and otherpilots have their favourite ships as well. I really dont think all those Apoc flyers are suddenly going to go train caldari frigate/cruiser/BS then missile launcher/cruise and torps thats a couple of monthw skill training right there (yes i know some pilots can already fly all BS but you get my drift)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hmmm I need a Sig |
Mrmuttley
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Posted - 2004.12.21 09:08:00 -
[100]
I've been a missile user ever since i got into a cruiser and always thought that missiles were over priced compared to the cost of using other weapons of equivalent sixe.
Always built my own missiles too and this is a big improvement IMGO
Yeah i lost a few mill on the missiles i ghad in stock. but hey i can recoup that soon enough.
As for stating that everyone will now use ravens well i always have used a Raven or a scorpion as my BS and otherpilots have their favourite ships as well. I really dont think all those Apoc flyers are suddenly going to go train caldari frigate/cruiser/BS then missile launcher/cruise and torps thats a couple of monthw skill training right there (yes i know some pilots can already fly all BS but you get my drift)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Hmmm I need a Sig |
Tar om
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Posted - 2004.12.21 09:59:00 -
[101]
Caldari love... it knows no bounds...
--
We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
http://www.serenitymovie.com |
Tar om
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Posted - 2004.12.21 09:59:00 -
[102]
Caldari love... it knows no bounds...
--
We are the Octavian Vanguard www.octavianvanguard.net
http://www.serenitymovie.com |
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