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Riddari
   |
Posted - 2004.11.26 08:50:00 -
[121]
 Originally by: mahhy
Patch notes were available before Exodus went live weren't they?
No
Originally by: mahhy
Even if they weren't there are a couple other sources of information, like the forums. It really is in the players own best interest to be keeping track of the changes coming in Exodus before they decide to undock. So if someone doesn't try hard to keep themselves informed, we blame CCP? Seems backwards to me.
No. Today the main thing on the internet is PUSHING CONTENT to your readers/customers.
Check out the NEWS section now, there we have stories about Contraband AFTER people were getting shot up left, right and center.
If the news items would have been published BEFORE then the customers couldn't really argue IMHO.
THERE IS WAY TOO MUCH of arrogant vibes coming from the Forum regulars, yes YOU read the forums 12/7, yes YOU visit every obscure topic, yes YOU have found several of the bugs and gameplay issues on the test server.
NO, that does not give CCP the "right" to release an undocumented product to the rest of the customers and then tell them "suxforu, kthxbye".
CCP of course have the legal rights to do it, and by golly they have not failed to mess things up like this before. And this is also your best way of driving away CURRENT and FUTURE customers.
EVE was an awesome game, I'm however again falling into the despair I had before Fanfest because the lack of professional software release protocols (i.e. THINK before you deploy) in them releasing major gameplay changes without advance warnings (other than in obscure threads in obscure forums not frequented by majority of players) is making me, as a professional, lose faith in their professionalism.
Too much of the old icelandic thinking which goes a bit like "lets throw what we got out there and then we pick up pieces after we've broken it all". CCP need a german to oversee their deployments or something.
Did no-one at CCP stop and think "hmmm, we are releasing undocumented changes which will cost players their ships because our agent missions will make sure of them getting contraband items, maybe we should, you know, like warn them before they undock or pick up the things? We might even have the NPCs warn them for the first week, by which time most should have gotten the message".
Instead it's the sledgehammer approach which means that GM's are drowning in petitions, customers are seething and this is a pretty much schoolbok example of "how to keep your customers and attract new ones" NOT TO DO.
¼©¼
a history |
Riddari
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 08:50:00 -
[122]
Originally by: mahhy
Patch notes were available before Exodus went live weren't they?
No
Originally by: mahhy
Even if they weren't there are a couple other sources of information, like the forums. It really is in the players own best interest to be keeping track of the changes coming in Exodus before they decide to undock. So if someone doesn't try hard to keep themselves informed, we blame CCP? Seems backwards to me.
No. Today the main thing on the internet is PUSHING CONTENT to your readers/customers.
Check out the NEWS section now, there we have stories about Contraband AFTER people were getting shot up left, right and center.
If the news items would have been published BEFORE then the customers couldn't really argue IMHO.
THERE IS WAY TOO MUCH of arrogant vibes coming from the Forum regulars, yes YOU read the forums 12/7, yes YOU visit every obscure topic, yes YOU have found several of the bugs and gameplay issues on the test server.
NO, that does not give CCP the "right" to release an undocumented product to the rest of the customers and then tell them "suxforu, kthxbye".
CCP of course have the legal rights to do it, and by golly they have not failed to mess things up like this before. And this is also your best way of driving away CURRENT and FUTURE customers.
EVE was an awesome game, I'm however again falling into the despair I had before Fanfest because the lack of professional software release protocols (i.e. THINK before you deploy) in them releasing major gameplay changes without advance warnings (other than in obscure threads in obscure forums not frequented by majority of players) is making me, as a professional, lose faith in their professionalism.
Too much of the old icelandic thinking which goes a bit like "lets throw what we got out there and then we pick up pieces after we've broken it all". CCP need a german to oversee their deployments or something.
Did no-one at CCP stop and think "hmmm, we are releasing undocumented changes which will cost players their ships because our agent missions will make sure of them getting contraband items, maybe we should, you know, like warn them before they undock or pick up the things? We might even have the NPCs warn them for the first week, by which time most should have gotten the message".
Instead it's the sledgehammer approach which means that GM's are drowning in petitions, customers are seething and this is a pretty much schoolbok example of "how to keep your customers and attract new ones" NOT TO DO.
¼©¼
a history |
Riddari
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 08:52:00 -
[123]
I'm not advocating for a rollback myself.
But a rollback has been done previously in EVE. So there is a precedence.
Also a rollback would not make us go back to Castor, what on earth are you bigheads talking about?
A rollback would be CCP releasing a fewer bug Exodus version with the database reset to Exodus:Day 1 before anyone logged in.
¼©¼
a history |
Riddari
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 08:52:00 -
[124]
I'm not advocating for a rollback myself.
But a rollback has been done previously in EVE. So there is a precedence.
Also a rollback would not make us go back to Castor, what on earth are you bigheads talking about?
A rollback would be CCP releasing a fewer bug Exodus version with the database reset to Exodus:Day 1 before anyone logged in.
¼©¼
a history |
jason hill
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:01:00 -
[125]
err nay.. as a previous poster put it .. its laaaagy yes but stfu.. get on with it .. or dont play till the lag gets sorted .
"THE HUMAN SHIELD" |
jason hill
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:01:00 -
[126]
err nay.. as a previous poster put it .. its laaaagy yes but stfu.. get on with it .. or dont play till the lag gets sorted .
"THE HUMAN SHIELD" |
Hakera
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:04:00 -
[127]
Riddari, there were quite a few posts I answered myself and included it in a news article on what was contraband and its effects a day in advance of the server foing down for a day.
However, the fact that agents dish the stuff out and most people sont even look at what they are supposed to be carrying I guess is a big problem which I presume CCP are reimbursing for and will I guess be fixed today with the client side patch.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
Hakera
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:04:00 -
[128]
Riddari, there were quite a few posts I answered myself and included it in a news article on what was contraband and its effects a day in advance of the server foing down for a day.
However, the fact that agents dish the stuff out and most people sont even look at what they are supposed to be carrying I guess is a big problem which I presume CCP are reimbursing for and will I guess be fixed today with the client side patch.
Dumbledore - Eve-I.com |
mahhy
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:28:00 -
[129]
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: mahhy
Patch notes were available before Exodus went live weren't they?
No
Not sure I believe you. I think they were.
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: mahhy
Even if they weren't there are a couple other sources of information, like the forums. It really is in the players own best interest to be keeping track of the changes coming in Exodus before they decide to undock. So if someone doesn't try hard to keep themselves informed, we blame CCP? Seems backwards to me.
No. Today the main thing on the internet is PUSHING CONTENT to your readers/customers.
Check out the NEWS section now, there we have stories about Contraband AFTER people were getting shot up left, right and center.
If the news items would have been published BEFORE then the customers couldn't really argue IMHO.
THERE IS WAY TOO MUCH of arrogant vibes coming from the Forum regulars, yes YOU read the forums 12/7, yes YOU visit every obscure topic, yes YOU have found several of the bugs and gameplay issues on the test server.
Blah blah yap yap. So because I think people would be smart to prepare themselves, to take initiative and bother to open their eyes I'm arrogant? 
End of the day its really simple, least in my eyes. We've all known Exodus was coming for the last 6 months minimum. It doesn't take reading the forums 12/7 to keep semi-informed of the upcomgin changes. The patch notes I'm almost positive were available before Exodus was opened. And yet I would bet that the majority of the people who've been smoked by Customs probably didn't even *know* Customs was in the game now.
Thats a lack of thought on the players part. The information was available.
|
mahhy
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:28:00 -
[130]
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: mahhy
Patch notes were available before Exodus went live weren't they?
No
Not sure I believe you. I think they were.
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: mahhy
Even if they weren't there are a couple other sources of information, like the forums. It really is in the players own best interest to be keeping track of the changes coming in Exodus before they decide to undock. So if someone doesn't try hard to keep themselves informed, we blame CCP? Seems backwards to me.
No. Today the main thing on the internet is PUSHING CONTENT to your readers/customers.
Check out the NEWS section now, there we have stories about Contraband AFTER people were getting shot up left, right and center.
If the news items would have been published BEFORE then the customers couldn't really argue IMHO.
THERE IS WAY TOO MUCH of arrogant vibes coming from the Forum regulars, yes YOU read the forums 12/7, yes YOU visit every obscure topic, yes YOU have found several of the bugs and gameplay issues on the test server.
Blah blah yap yap. So because I think people would be smart to prepare themselves, to take initiative and bother to open their eyes I'm arrogant?
End of the day its really simple, least in my eyes. We've all known Exodus was coming for the last 6 months minimum. It doesn't take reading the forums 12/7 to keep semi-informed of the upcomgin changes. The patch notes I'm almost positive were available before Exodus was opened. And yet I would bet that the majority of the people who've been smoked by Customs probably didn't even *know* Customs was in the game now.
Thats a lack of thought on the players part. The information was available.
|
Hukka
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:36:00 -
[131]
NO
|
Hukka
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:36:00 -
[132]
NO
|
Riddari
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:38:00 -
[133]
Originally by: mahhy
Not sure I believe you. I think they were.
They weren't. Ask Kieron, hell, you are a forum dweller, read the topics! They said 3mb of text they had to condense.
Originally by: mahhy
And yet I would bet that the majority of the people who've been smoked by Customs probably didn't even *know* Customs was in the game now.
Thats a lack of thought on the players part. The information was available.
Precisely! DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT SEE A NEWS ITEM OR PATCH NOTES BEFORE LOGGING IN THAT TOLD YOU ABOUT CUSTOMS?
No?
Precisely my point. Thank you.
¼©¼
a history |
Riddari
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:38:00 -
[134]
Originally by: mahhy
Not sure I believe you. I think they were.
They weren't. Ask Kieron, hell, you are a forum dweller, read the topics! They said 3mb of text they had to condense.
Originally by: mahhy
And yet I would bet that the majority of the people who've been smoked by Customs probably didn't even *know* Customs was in the game now.
Thats a lack of thought on the players part. The information was available.
Precisely! DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT SEE A NEWS ITEM OR PATCH NOTES BEFORE LOGGING IN THAT TOLD YOU ABOUT CUSTOMS?
No?
Precisely my point. Thank you.
¼©¼
a history |
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:46:00 -
[135]
Riddari, I knew about the customs agents before release day.
Doesn't mean everyone did, but seeing as they're compensating folks for the problem, I don't really see the problem (unless you're one of the GM's doing reimbursals)
As for rollback - AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
NO.
The only people who seem to be asking for one are the ones that got their ships *****ed. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows how pointless and time-wasting it will be.
have some patience.
.
|
drunkenmaster
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:46:00 -
[136]
Riddari, I knew about the customs agents before release day.
Doesn't mean everyone did, but seeing as they're compensating folks for the problem, I don't really see the problem (unless you're one of the GM's doing reimbursals)
As for rollback - AHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
NO.
The only people who seem to be asking for one are the ones that got their ships *****ed. Anyone with an ounce of common sense knows how pointless and time-wasting it will be.
have some patience.
.
|
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:47:00 -
[137]
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: mahhy
Not sure I believe you. I think they were.
They weren't. Ask Kieron, hell, you are a forum dweller, read the topics! They said 3mb of text they had to condense.
Originally by: mahhy
And yet I would bet that the majority of the people who've been smoked by Customs probably didn't even *know* Customs was in the game now.
Thats a lack of thought on the players part. The information was available.
Precisely! DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT SEE A NEWS ITEM OR PATCH NOTES BEFORE LOGGING IN THAT TOLD YOU ABOUT CUSTOMS?
No?
Precisely my point. Thank you.
See, this is why people should help testing - then they would have known.
Anyway, the icons are clearly marked.
Besides a rollback would mean I would lose all the cool stuff I have looted from ignorant people who got their arses handed to them by customs.
'Here is a new expansion, but I have no patch notes, I didn't bother to test, and I can't be bothered to read up about it on the forums. I'll just undock and play as usual.'
Muppets.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
Avon
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:47:00 -
[138]
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: mahhy
Not sure I believe you. I think they were.
They weren't. Ask Kieron, hell, you are a forum dweller, read the topics! They said 3mb of text they had to condense.
Originally by: mahhy
And yet I would bet that the majority of the people who've been smoked by Customs probably didn't even *know* Customs was in the game now.
Thats a lack of thought on the players part. The information was available.
Precisely! DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT SEE A NEWS ITEM OR PATCH NOTES BEFORE LOGGING IN THAT TOLD YOU ABOUT CUSTOMS?
No?
Precisely my point. Thank you.
See, this is why people should help testing - then they would have known.
Anyway, the icons are clearly marked.
Besides a rollback would mean I would lose all the cool stuff I have looted from ignorant people who got their arses handed to them by customs.
'Here is a new expansion, but I have no patch notes, I didn't bother to test, and I can't be bothered to read up about it on the forums. I'll just undock and play as usual.'
Muppets.
______________________________________________
Never argue with idiots.
They will just drag it down to their level, and then beat you through experience. |
mahhy
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:50:00 -
[139]
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: mahhy
Not sure I believe you. I think they were.
They weren't. Ask Kieron, hell, you are a forum dweller, read the topics! They said 3mb of text they had to condense.
I know what you're saying Riddari. I just seem to remember them being avail BEFORE Exodus opened to the public. Might not have been 24 hours beforehand. Could be wrong though.
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: mahhy
And yet I would bet that the majority of the people who've been smoked by Customs probably didn't even *know* Customs was in the game now.
Thats a lack of thought on the players part. The information was available.
Precisely! DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT SEE A NEWS ITEM OR PATCH NOTES BEFORE LOGGING IN THAT TOLD YOU ABOUT CUSTOMS?
No?
Precisely my point. Thank you.
So you agree with me that people have the ability to inform themselves of the changes in Exodus as ALL the information was easily available before deployement even started? Great, 'cause thats my point. It certainly didn't seem like you were agreeing with me previously, and that you were insisiting it was entirely CCPs responsibility to spoon feed the information to every single player 
|
mahhy
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 09:50:00 -
[140]
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: mahhy
Not sure I believe you. I think they were.
They weren't. Ask Kieron, hell, you are a forum dweller, read the topics! They said 3mb of text they had to condense.
I know what you're saying Riddari. I just seem to remember them being avail BEFORE Exodus opened to the public. Might not have been 24 hours beforehand. Could be wrong though.
Originally by: Riddari
Originally by: mahhy
And yet I would bet that the majority of the people who've been smoked by Customs probably didn't even *know* Customs was in the game now.
Thats a lack of thought on the players part. The information was available.
Precisely! DID YOU OR DID YOU NOT SEE A NEWS ITEM OR PATCH NOTES BEFORE LOGGING IN THAT TOLD YOU ABOUT CUSTOMS?
No?
Precisely my point. Thank you.
So you agree with me that people have the ability to inform themselves of the changes in Exodus as ALL the information was easily available before deployement even started? Great, 'cause thats my point. It certainly didn't seem like you were agreeing with me previously, and that you were insisiting it was entirely CCPs responsibility to spoon feed the information to every single player
|
Rodj Blake
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 10:01:00 -
[141]
A big NAY from me...
The lag always gets better a day or two after a major patch - presumably it's caused by people downloading the update.
And as for bugs, well unfortunately the only way to make a game like Eve totally bug free is to fix them on the live server. Testing on a smaller cluster will never show up all of the problems.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Rodj Blake
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 10:01:00 -
[142]
A big NAY from me...
The lag always gets better a day or two after a major patch - presumably it's caused by people downloading the update.
And as for bugs, well unfortunately the only way to make a game like Eve totally bug free is to fix them on the live server. Testing on a smaller cluster will never show up all of the problems.
Dolce et decorum est pro imperator mori |
Danton Marcellus
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 10:07:00 -
[143]
*Too cool for rool*
Nay.
Convert Stations
|
Danton Marcellus
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 10:07:00 -
[144]
*Too cool for rool*
Nay.
Convert Stations
|
Sassinak
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 10:24:00 -
[145]
I see through your ebil schemes Siygo/Grikl....
No matter how much you ask they aint gonna roll back the server till a time that you still owned your Imperial Apocalypse Im sorry man, its gone, your gonna have to move on....
PS: (Only joking, LONG TIME NO SEE)
but still a rollback is bad idea tbh.
Sass
Arcane Technologies |
Sassinak
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 10:24:00 -
[146]
I see through your ebil schemes Siygo/Grikl....
No matter how much you ask they aint gonna roll back the server till a time that you still owned your Imperial Apocalypse Im sorry man, its gone, your gonna have to move on....
PS: (Only joking, LONG TIME NO SEE)
but still a rollback is bad idea tbh.
Sass
Arcane Technologies |
Holi
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 10:36:00 -
[147]
Originally by: Luc Boye
so what is this thread all about?
Nay.
--
Holi
[ md5 checksum calculator ] |
Holi
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 10:36:00 -
[148]
Originally by: Luc Boye
so what is this thread all about?
Nay.
--
Holi
[ md5 checksum calculator ] |
Grey Area
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 10:47:00 -
[149]
Rollback?
/me shudders
No way.
Agree that CCP need a good kicking for NOT giving sufficient importance to the contraband issue. They should have installed the customs agents, but for a week any player carrying contraband should have received the message;
"You are carrying contraband (x items of y). If we see you again with contraband after the 2/12/2004, your (ship will be destroyed) / (contraband will be confiscated) and you will be fined"
Yes some good, honest souls do venture on to the test server...but every minute I'm on the test server is a minute I'm not doing agent missions and thus making money on the REAL server...maybe CCP should offer bonus gametime...1 minute free gametime for every 1 minute spent on the test server.
Contrast this with the Trade skills, which were well promoted, and their effect on game play well described.
=========================================
* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
========================================= |
Grey Area
|
Posted - 2004.11.26 10:47:00 -
[150]
Rollback?
/me shudders
No way.
Agree that CCP need a good kicking for NOT giving sufficient importance to the contraband issue. They should have installed the customs agents, but for a week any player carrying contraband should have received the message;
"You are carrying contraband (x items of y). If we see you again with contraband after the 2/12/2004, your (ship will be destroyed) / (contraband will be confiscated) and you will be fined"
Yes some good, honest souls do venture on to the test server...but every minute I'm on the test server is a minute I'm not doing agent missions and thus making money on the REAL server...maybe CCP should offer bonus gametime...1 minute free gametime for every 1 minute spent on the test server.
Contrast this with the Trade skills, which were well promoted, and their effect on game play well described.
=========================================
* I'm ALLOWED to cheat. I'm a STARSHIP. *
========================================= |
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