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cBOLTSON Caldari Shadow Legion. Talos Coalition	Posted - 2010.02.19 18:23:00 - [1] Ok so I had read a fair bit about the dramiel and how now after the pirate ships boost that it is pretty damn good. I recently went up against one in a crow and suffice to say i had my ass whooped hehe. Now i should have knew better, but i just had to find out for myself. I was wondering... does this mean that interceptors are obsolete? Mabye not... but the dram seems to do the job of intys just fine and more. (with a higher pricetag of course) I was also wondering short of catching one in a camp... what a couter to these ships would be? Any feedback would be appreciated :) thanks.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.02.19 18:38:00 - [2] Originally by: cBOLTSON I was also wondering short of catching one in a camp... what a couter to these ships would be? Teamwork. They die just as horribly to a web and scam as any other frigate with 5k~10k ehp. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The only thing separating us from frightened, feral monkeys is running water on tap, fuel in the tank, and current in our wall sockets.
Neesa Corrinne Stimulus Rote Kapelle	Posted - 2010.02.19 18:40:00 - [3] Oh god, another speed whine. I swear the crappy PVP'ers in this game will never be happy until we all just warp to each other at zero and start shooting at zero velocity.
Xtover Suicide Kings	Posted - 2010.02.19 18:41:00 - [4] Quote: I was also wondering short of catching one in a camp... what a couter to these ships would be? 150mm.
Shadowy Assistant	Posted - 2010.02.19 18:45:00 - [5] Originally by: cBOLTSON I recently went up against one in a crow Try flying a better ship and then come back with your results.
Hannah Ganktannah Caldari Caldari Provisions	Posted - 2010.02.19 18:49:00 - [6] Originally by: cBOLTSON I recently went up against one in a crow You fly crows, stop whining and train a decent interceptor
Yesh SandStorm.	Posted - 2010.02.19 18:54:00 - [7] Originally by: Neesa Corrinne Oh god, another speed whine. I swear the crappy PVP'ers in this game will never be happy until we all just warp to each other at zero and start shooting at zero velocity. Where was the whine in the OP?
Kiri Serrensun	Posted - 2010.02.19 19:03:00 - [8] Originally by: cBOLTSON I was wondering... does this mean that interceptors are obsolete? Mabye not... but the dram seems to do the job of intys just fine and more. (with a higher pricetag of course) I was also wondering short of catching one in a camp... what a couter to these ships would be? You answered your own question--price, plus unreliable supply when there's trouble in those areas. Plus, when there's a faction ship on overview, everyone on the other side suddenly remembers how to focus fire. :)
Captain Mastiff	Posted - 2010.02.19 19:08:00 - [9] Originally by: Kiri Serrensun when there's a faction ship on overview, everyone on the other side suddenly remembers how to focus fire. :) Confirming this as fact.
Taedrin Gallente The Green Cross DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.02.19 19:11:00 - [10] I'm no PvP expert, but with a frigate fight, whoever is in the fastest ship wins - as that pilot is the one who dictates the range of the engagement and is the one who can disengage when things turn go bad. I wonder if you could make an electronic attack frigate work in your favor with the web/scram range bonus. ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.02.19 19:18:00 - [11] Originally by: Taedrin I'm no PvP expert, but with a frigate fight, whoever is in the fastest ship wins - as that pilot is the one who dictates the range of the engagement and is the one who can disengage when things turn go bad. I wonder if you could make an electronic attack frigate work in your favor with the web/scram range bonus. Wrong. In a frigate fight the fastest ship has the best chance to gtfo when things go wrong and they have not been called primary. Two rifters could easily kill a dramiel if they could catch it hence all the whinge as it almost always chooses to run away and so is somehow op because of that. But in a frigate fight its gonna get primaried so at best all it can do is hope to get away before the blob gets multiple webs on it and instamelts it. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The only thing separating us from frightened, feral monkeys is running water on tap, fuel in the tank, and current in our wall sockets.
Hirana Yoshida Behavioral Affront	Posted - 2010.02.19 19:31:00 - [12] Edited by: Hirana Yoshida on 19/02/2010 19:31:41 Originally by: Zeba Two rifters could easily kill a dramiel if they could catch it hence all the whinge as it almost always chooses to run away and so is somehow op because of that. But in a frigate fight its gonna get primaried so at best all it can do is hope to get away before the blob gets multiple webs on it and instamelts it. Starting out with a 'wrong' and then going on to say that 2 Rifters can kill it? A bloody Punisher can kill two Rifters easily if flown properly .. Only way two Rifters can kill a competent pilot, in Dramiel or Punisher (probably Tristans as well), is for one Rifter to sacrifice himself (ie. staying until death) to give the partner a chance at finishing it. And here is why (fresh from the frigate bouts in FW): Frigate fights are all determined by relative speeds and tracking, if one or both are equal it comes down to staying power (capacitor/hitpoints). Rifters are good because of this, 3 mids for speed control and a tracking bonus .. go against them with high-tracking in a Punisher and Puni wins due to staying power. As for the Dramiel: Dramiel has more speed than anything else, more tracking than most and more staying power than most = win (not counting noob ******s with too much ISK for their own good). Hyena + Rifter and you stand a decent chance or better than 50% anyway
Taedrin Gallente The Green Cross DEFI4NT	Posted - 2010.02.19 19:41:00 - [13] Originally by: Zeba Originally by: Taedrin I'm no PvP expert, but with a frigate fight, whoever is in the fastest ship wins - as that pilot is the one who dictates the range of the engagement and is the one who can disengage when things turn go bad. I wonder if you could make an electronic attack frigate work in your favor with the web/scram range bonus. Wrong. In a frigate fight the fastest ship has the best chance to gtfo when things go wrong and they have not been called primary. Two rifters could easily kill a dramiel if they could catch it hence all the whinge as it almost always chooses to run away and so is somehow op because of that. But in a frigate fight its gonna get primaried so at best all it can do is hope to get away before the blob gets multiple webs on it and instamelts it. My apologies, I thought I had said 1v1 frigate fight, but it seems I had accidentally deleted that part when I was revising my post. When you involve fleets, things get complicated due to the nature of tactics, and synergy between ships in a fleet. As such, I was also going to mention that the only counter would be to bring some more people. I forgot about that though once I thought about the possibility of using a minnie or gallente electronic attack frigate to deny the dramiel pilot his/her ability to dictate range with their superior speed. ---------- Originally by: Dr Fighter "how do you know when youve had a repro accident" Theres modules missing and morphite in your mineral pile.
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.02.19 19:55:00 - [14] Originally by: Hirana Yoshida Only way two Rifters can kill a competent pilot, in Dramiel or Punisher (probably Tristans as well), is for one Rifter to sacrifice himself (ie. staying until death) to give the partner a chance at finishing it. Trading a 5 mil after fittings frigate for a 100+ mil faction frigate that moast likely had at least a gistii b prop mod of one sort or another is well worth the exchange when you still get on the killmail. Plus you just dock up and peel another rifter off the stack then go right back out and do it again and again and again. Unless that dramiel pilot is stupidly rich he will not be able to keep up with the exchange rate. And my fw frigate blob experience is that the gang who has the best overall focus and competant fc wins the fight even if they are mostly t1 hulls vs mostly t2 hulls. Originally by: Taedrin My apologies, I thought I had said 1v1 frigate fight. 1 vs 1 fights are irrelevant to how ccp balances the game as they rarely ever happen. It might start as a 1 vs 1 but if your target is strong enough to draw out the fight then it won't stay that way for long. Besides CCP take an arms race approach to balance were one ship or maybe even an entire race enjoy a certain advantage over all the others. Then after a while they switch it all around again on whatever arcane timetable they use. Remember when gallente bs were the only ones considered worth using? Or waaaay back when if you didn't have 8 heatsink amarr bs in your fleet and the other guys did then you died horribly. Every time. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The only thing separating us from frightened, feral monkeys is running water on tap, fuel in the tank, and current in our wall sockets.
sue denim	Posted - 2010.02.19 19:57:00 - [15] crow wouldnt win against any inty so its a pretty bad comparison :\|
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.02.19 19:58:00 - [16] Edited by: Gladys Pank on 19/02/2010 19:59:00 Fly a missile boat with a painter. edit: Mum is that you? ~ Soar Like a Penguin
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.02.19 20:01:00 - [17] Edited by: Zeba on 19/02/2010 20:02:00 Originally by: Gladys Pank Fly a missile boat with a painter. Indeed. Add in a couple of tp aml caracals to your gang and enjoy swatting all frigs like they were fat lazy flies. edit: wtf stealth edit by gladys :P Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The only thing separating us from frightened, feral monkeys is running water on tap, fuel in the tank, and current in our wall sockets.
sue denim	Posted - 2010.02.19 20:09:00 - [18] Originally by: Gladys Pank Edited by: Gladys Pank on 19/02/2010 19:59:00 Fly a missile boat with a painter. edit: Mum is that you? u look older then me :P
Cornaris	Posted - 2010.02.19 20:15:00 - [19] my only complaint is their ability to burn back to gates, even if a remo seboed rapier knows he's coming. surprise butsect drake with overheated faction web/scram and command ship bonuses Anyone want to buy some 1mn propulsion mods? they are starting to fill my loot can
Istvaan Shogaatsu Caldari Guiding Hand Social Club	Posted - 2010.02.19 20:24:00 - [20] Caracal, assault launchers, cheap missile rigs. Congratulations, you've created a 30km+ zone of death the Dramiel can't enter, and all for about 5% of its cost.
drones man Celestial Asylum	Posted - 2010.02.19 20:38:00 - [21] Baalghorn with 2 webs and heavy neuts. Have fun instapoping any frig
AmarrVictor	Posted - 2010.02.19 20:40:00 - [22] fly most other things that cost 100 mil vs one and they will die. Fly a ship worth 30 mil in one and you will die. Fly three 30 mil ships vs the 100 mil ship and it will die. Balanced.
Merdaneth Amarr PIE Inc.	Posted - 2010.02.19 20:48:00 - [23] Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Caracal, assault launchers, cheap missile rigs. Congratulations, you've created a 30km+ zone of death the Dramiel can't enter, and all for about 5% of its cost. Good luck killing Dramiels with that. Honestly, I often attack Caracals in my AB Crusader, and unless they are AB and double web fitted, I can manage to burn out before I pop if the Caracal is AM missile fitted. A Dramiel would certainly be able to do so. ____ The Illusion of Freedom \| The Truth about Slavery
Zeba Minmatar Honourable East India Trading Company	Posted - 2010.02.19 20:53:00 - [24] Originally by: Merdaneth Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu Caracal, assault launchers, cheap missile rigs. Congratulations, you've created a 30km+ zone of death the Dramiel can't enter, and all for about 5% of its cost. Good luck killing Dramiels with that. Honestly, I often attack Caracals in my AB Crusader, and unless they are AB and double web fitted, I can manage to burn out before I pop if the Caracal is AM missile fitted. A Dramiel would certainly be able to do so. Can you do that with another tackler in your face? But the point was whilst you may have been able to get away that is all you did. Get away. The caracal is still alive and so are the other ships that you could have easily killed if it was not there. Role fullfilled. Originally by: Istvaan Shogaatsu The only thing separating us from frightened, feral monkeys is running water on tap, fuel in the tank, and current in our wall sockets.

CCP Adida	Posted - 2010.02.19 20:55:00 - [25] Moved from general discussion Adida Community Representative CCP Hf, EVE Online Contact us

Lugalzagezi666	Posted - 2010.02.19 22:21:00 - [26] Originally by: Zeba ... Same for every other cruiser if you got additional web+scram from tackler frig and dram pilot chooses to stay and fight. So yeah, generally its very good idea to outnumber enemy if you want to win /lets forget about fun etc./.
Smabs	Posted - 2010.02.19 22:39:00 - [27] To answer the OP - yes, the dramiel is basically better than any other interceptor. If you've got the cash and know how to fly it well then you're better off in a dramiel since they're superior to every interceptor in almost every single way. As far as a counter goes you'll need at least two people to hold onto one long enough to kill it, but everyone else in the thread seems to have discussed that already.
Reborn 8	Posted - 2010.02.19 22:48:00 - [28] an aml caracal can kill a dram. To keep them from getting away you need to neut them when they're low.
Joe Censored Unknown-Entity Black Star Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.19 23:23:00 - [29] Seems like there is another "I suck at killing Dramiels, can you teach me?" thread up every day here. Conventional wisdom right now seems to be that the Dramiel is a bit overpowered, regardless of what many people will say in response to that (who mostly happen to fly Dramiel's coincidentally). I expect a rebalancing of this ship in the coming months personally.
Kalexander	Posted - 2010.02.19 23:48:00 - [30] I'll take my Tech3 frig against a dramiel any day.

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