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Renias Zenmerr
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Posted - 2010.02.20 09:53:00 -
[1]
Hi forums o/
I was just wondering why CCP made 11 skills you absolutely have to train at some point. I just feels a bit annoying to have to train mandatory skills. Anyone knows the reason for them?
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.20 11:10:00 -
[2]
If it's any consolation, CCP regrets putting them in the game… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.20 11:11:00 -
[3]
They're not mandatory.
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McRoll
Minmatar Heatseekers
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Posted - 2010.02.20 11:50:00 -
[4]
If you want to train skills with a decent speed, which everyone wants, they are mandatory.
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Boltorano
Fourth Circle Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.02.20 14:48:00 -
[5]
Edited by: Boltorano on 20/02/2010 14:49:24 With the introduction of the skill queue and the way new characters get a training bonus since Apocrypha, I would not be surprised if something like the following were introduced in the next 2-3 expansions:
1) Remove all Learning skills (Except maybe the skill "Learning" itself), give +10 to every character's attributes, and then a (+50% perhaps?) skill training speed bonus until that character makes up for any SP already invested in learning.
2) Remove the advanced learning skills, give +5 to every character's attributes, and then a (+50% perhaps?) skill training speed bonus until that character makes up for any SP already invested in learning.
CCP is not the kind of developer to let you re-distribute SP anywhere instantly, so one of these two plans is probably the only thing you can ever hope to see, as it is the only possible way to remove those skills without making large groups of players angry.
Edit: This is not my original idea, it is a variation on an idea proposed by another player whose name escapes me.
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Terhi
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:22:00 -
[6]
Originally by: Boltorano Edited by: Boltorano on 20/02/2010 14:49:24 With the introduction of the skill queue and the way new characters get a training bonus since Apocrypha, I would not be surprised if something like the following were introduced in the next 2-3 expansions:
1) Remove all Learning skills (Except maybe the skill "Learning" itself), give +10 to every character's attributes, and then a (+50% perhaps?) skill training speed bonus until that character makes up for any SP already invested in learning.
2) Remove the advanced learning skills, give +5 to every character's attributes, and then a (+50% perhaps?) skill training speed bonus until that character makes up for any SP already invested in learning.
CCP is not the kind of developer to let you re-distribute SP anywhere instantly, so one of these two plans is probably the only thing you can ever hope to see, as it is the only possible way to remove those skills without making large groups of players angry.
Edit: This is not my original idea, it is a variation on an idea proposed by another player whose name escapes me.
I do hope that you're correct.
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.20 16:57:00 -
[7]
Edited by: Akita T on 20/02/2010 16:57:58
Originally by: Renias Zenmerr I was just wondering why CCP made 11 skills you absolutely have to train at some point. I just feels a bit annoying to have to train mandatory skills.
Originally by: McRoll If you want to train skills with a decent speed, which everyone wants, they are mandatory.
Wow, to the both of you...
Oh no, Electronics and Engineering are mandatory too ! I mean, you can't be expected to fit a ship without them at a decently high level, preferably both at L5. Oh, and with WU5 and at least AWU4 too ! Wait, racial frigate is mandatory too ! At least to L4 for those that want a cruiser ! And cruiser to 4 for those that want a battleship ! And battleship to 5 for those that want capships, they don't want to fly frigates and cruisers and battleships, they just want that dreadnought ! Mandatory skills, waaaah!
Dammit, pretty much every skill is mandatory if you follow that line of thought ! You must really hate it
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Restless Phantom
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Posted - 2010.02.22 10:06:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Akita T Edited by: Akita T on 20/02/2010 16:57:58
Wow, to the both of you...
Oh no, Electronics and Engineering are mandatory too ! I mean, you can't be expected to fit a ship without them at a decently high level, preferably both at L5. Oh, and with WU5 and at least AWU4 too ! Wait, racial frigate is mandatory too ! At least to L4 for those that want a cruiser ! And cruiser to 4 for those that want a battleship ! And battleship to 5 for those that want capships, they don't want to fly frigates and cruisers and battleships, they just want that dreadnought ! Mandatory skills, waaaah!
Dammit, pretty much every skill is mandatory if you follow that line of thought ! You must really hate it
You are wrong in this Akita :( Seeing as _ANY_ route you take in eve training skills as fast as possible is something you want. If you go for trading skills you want learning skills, combat wants learning skills, indy wants learning skills.
Those others that you link are more of a choice, engineering for my trading alt? Why? Learning yes please. WU5 / AWU4 for my alt miner that mines highsec(1.0) in a retty? Why? Learning yes please!
See? Noone would not want learning to *some* degree, skipping out on them completely is ABSOLUTELY out of the question.. Thus they are mandatory, weapons arent, ship skills arent, tank skills arent, social/trade/indy/whatever arent.
With that said, I dont really mind them though, its just abit strange that they are there :) Specially with the new player joining and being told "train learning skills first, you will have to wait 2 weeks being able to do absolutely nothing fun but after that it gets slightly better!"
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.22 10:08:00 -
[9]
Originally by: Restless Phantom Specially with the new player joining and being told "train learning skills first, you will have to wait 2 weeks being able to do absolutely nothing fun but after that it gets slightly better!"
People who do this to new players should be banned for griefing IMO.
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Slade Hoo
Amarr 24th Imperial Crusade
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Posted - 2010.02.22 10:32:00 -
[10]
Originally by: Malcanis
People who do this to new players should be banned for griefing IMO.
true ------ Make Lowsec useful! Vote in the CSM-Forum! |
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Tripoli
XenTech
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Posted - 2010.02.23 03:15:00 -
[11]
Don't blame me. I just gave people the math, and told them how long they take to make themselves worthwhile. I never said they have to train them. --- All 392 skills trained. Tripoli on EveBoard.com Tripoli on EVE-Sheet.com |
Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.23 06:10:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Restless Phantom You are wrong in this Akita :( Seeing as _ANY_ route you take in eve training skills as fast as possible is something you want.
Completely, utterly and patently untrue, if by that you would have meant "certain levels of learning skills". Somewhat true, if you mean "ANY levels of learning skills".
Say you're a a brand new character that can just BARELY afford to buy some of the advanced learning skillbooks after a lot of effort, and maybe some implants... do you honestly think the better choice would be to spend all that ISK to get them "as fast as possible", instead of just focusing on ways to make more ISK ? Sure, if you are a heavily funded alt that won't be used actively any time soon, then yeah, you are completely right, in that particular case, learnings and implants are as good as mandatory.
Learning skills are the first insidious choice to be made, and there's no "correct" answer universally valid for everybody. Learning skills are a choice between short-term and long-term benefits - the higher in level for them you go, the less short-term gains you have, and the more long-term gains you can expect.
For a brand new character with very little ISK, stopping at L3 basic learnings until he gets the means to earn more ISK on a steady basis might be the best choice. For an alt qith no ISK issues, doing L5 basics and L4 advanceds, or even some L5 advanceds might be the best choice. It's all highly circumstantial.
Quote: Noone would not want learning to *some* degree, skipping out on them completely is ABSOLUTELY out of the question
That much is true.
Quote: Thus they are mandatory, weapons arent, ship skills arent, tank skills arent, social/trade/indy/whatever arent.
False again. For any particular EVE occupation, SOME skills are as good as mandatory, with maybe the exception of station-traders, which could just as well have next to no skills at all if they're good enough. The only bad thing you can say about learning skills is that, LONG TERM, they are important regardless of chosen occupation.
Quote: With that said, I dont really mind them though, its just abit strange that they are there :) Specially with the new player joining and being told "train learning skills first, you will have to wait 2 weeks being able to do absolutely nothing fun but after that it gets slightly better!"
And people who say that should be drawn and quartered. It's one of the WORST advices any older player can give to a GENUINE new player. Sure, tell them to train L3 basic learnings overnight in their first few days whenever they can, explain to them what the learning skills do for them long term and the advantages they get when they have higher learning skills, but for the love of god, DO NOT make them think the ONLY good choice is to get most learning skills done first before everything else. Hell, if anything, I would STRONGLY urge the exact opposite : for genuine new players, learning skills should AT MOST take up 50% of the total training time "so far", but preferably no less than 10% of the time. How much, that's each player's choice. Shoving the "100% spent on learning early" idea in their brains is downright criminally negligent.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.23 08:49:00 -
[13]
I once saw a suggestion that learning skills be added to the list of skills trial players cannot train. Whilst that might be a bit drastic, it might also be a good idea.
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Mashie Saldana
Red Federation
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Posted - 2010.02.23 09:39:00 -
[14]
Originally by: Malcanis I once saw a suggestion that learning skills be added to the list of skills trial players cannot train. Whilst that might be a bit drastic, it might also be a good idea.
"This skill can't be trained before 1.6m SP", imagine the tears.
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N Ano
Caldari Zerg Corp
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Posted - 2010.02.23 10:09:00 -
[15]
Originally by: Boltorano Edited by: Boltorano on 20/02/2010 14:49:24 With the introduction of the skill queue and the way new characters get a training bonus since Apocrypha, I would not be surprised if something like the following were introduced in the next 2-3 expansions:
1) Remove all Learning skills (Except maybe the skill "Learning" itself), give +10 to every character's attributes, and then a (+50% perhaps?) skill training speed bonus until that character makes up for any SP already invested in learning.
2) Remove the advanced learning skills, give +5 to every character's attributes, and then a (+50% perhaps?) skill training speed bonus until that character makes up for any SP already invested in learning.
CCP is not the kind of developer to let you re-distribute SP anywhere instantly, so one of these two plans is probably the only thing you can ever hope to see, as it is the only possible way to remove those skills without making large groups of players angry.
Edit: This is not my original idea, it is a variation on an idea proposed by another player whose name escapes me.
I like these ideas, CCP should totally introduce this with Incarna because they are going to have to redo just about everything anyway.
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Jagga Spikes
Minmatar Sebiestor tribe
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Posted - 2010.02.23 12:09:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Malcanis I once saw a suggestion that learning skills be added to the list of skills trial players cannot train. Whilst that might be a bit drastic, it might also be a good idea.
"This skill can't be trained before 1.6m SP", imagine the tears.
all learning might be a bit harsh. tho, i could see advanced learning not being allowed on trial. ________________________________ : Forum Bore 'Em : Foamy The Squirrel |
Noferatu
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Posted - 2010.02.23 12:34:00 -
[17]
Learning skills are (or at least, were) a unique aspect of Eve. They're also an intrinsic part of CCP's business model, in that it takes X amount of time for any new player to generate enough SP and experience before he/she can earn enough isk/month to start buying time cards instead of paying euros.
Don't expect that to change any time soon.
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Durzel
The Xenodus Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.23 12:44:00 -
[18]
Originally by: Noferatu Learning skills are (or at least, were) a unique aspect of Eve. They're also an intrinsic part of CCP's business model, in that it takes X amount of time for any new player to generate enough SP and experience before he/she can earn enough isk/month to start buying time cards instead of paying euros.
Don't expect that to change any time soon.
Because you need any ingame skills to be able to scam someone?
Your point is sound in principal but since scamming is legitimate in this game it doesn't hold water.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.23 13:03:00 -
[19]
Originally by: Mashie Saldana
Originally by: Malcanis I once saw a suggestion that learning skills be added to the list of skills trial players cannot train. Whilst that might be a bit drastic, it might also be a good idea.
"This skill can't be trained before 1.6m SP", imagine the tears.
If someone was that set on training them, then they could subscribe.
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Ambo
I've Got Nothing
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Posted - 2010.02.23 14:23:00 -
[20]
When I started, I trainied up the learning skills because doing anything else felt like a waste of time.
I REALLY wanted to learn other stuff that was more fun but my inner min/maxer simply would not allow it. The thought of all the future training time lost was too much.
This killed the game for me both the first and second times I played it. I can certainly see how new players would be put off by the thought of having to train skills that give them 'nothing' for a month or two before they can think about getting better ships and equipment.
Obviously they don't HAVE to train these skills but those who understand the benefit will want to and they'll want to do so as soon as possible. This is even more true with the 'skill point gap illusion' seperating them from older players.
IMo, CCP should do away with the learning skills. I know first-hand that they contribute to a lot of players leaving eve in thier first month or two. It could be argued that they contribute a 'tough choice' dynamic but tbh, there more than enough 'essential' skills to do that already. --------------------------------------
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.23 15:05:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Ambo IMo, CCP should do away with the learning skills.
Or just start everybody with L4 basic and L3 advanced
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Ambo
I've Got Nothing
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Posted - 2010.02.23 16:06:00 -
[22]
Originally by: Akita T
Originally by: Ambo IMo, CCP should do away with the learning skills.
Or just start everybody with L4 basic and L3 advanced
Well yes, I have decent learning skills and implants and I certainly wouldn't want to train skills any slower... The idea higher up the thread of removing them and adding 10 to all attribs with something else to compensate for time already invested into learning skills sounds good. --------------------------------------
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Akita T
Caldari Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
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Posted - 2010.02.23 17:04:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Ambo The idea higher up the thread of removing them and adding 10 to all attribs with something else to compensate for time already invested into learning skills sounds good.
A bit, maybe, but not really. The only real issues are with L4->L5 learning. Most people HAVE NOT trained L5 advanced learnings, and some never even bothered with L5 basic learnings (except maybe "learning" itself).
The problem would be some form of fair compensation for "removed SP" - if you put in either fixed duration or fixed SP total or something like that, it could benefit some much more than others, and it would be... not well received. The only alternative that MIGHT be well-received would be an instant SP redistribution, but that would go against pretty much everything the skill system stands for.
Long story short, while it could have been done better, there is no GOOD reason to radically change it in any way, shape nor form. The only additional concession (other than the reduction of prerequisites from L5 to L4 a couple of years ago) would be to auto-grant it to all people from the start to the levels where general consensus is "it's more or less mandatory in not a very long while", that being either 4b/3a or 4b/4a - that's basically a "non-refundable gift" of 22+ mil ISK and one or more days of skill training. If you want to go to 5/4 afterwards or even 5/5, now, that's REALLY your choice.
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Beginner's ISK making guide | Manufacturer's helper | All about reacting _
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Sprilk
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Posted - 2010.02.23 18:09:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Noferatu Learning skills are (or at least, were) a unique aspect of Eve. They're also an intrinsic part of CCP's business model, in that it takes X amount of time for any new player to generate enough SP and experience before he/she can earn enough isk/month to start buying time cards instead of paying euros.
Don't expect that to change any time soon.
You know... someone still purchased the game time card... if eve has Y number of people playing they make Yx15$ no matter how many people use isk to buy game time codes off others...
Your logic is the most broken and stupid logic i have ever seen... its worse logic then ships exploding are an isk sink.
I agree with the removal of learning skills.. they are rather pointless, and are admitidly fustrating to new players. I think the sugestion above about a 50% training speed increase until the skill points are made up is a good one... everyone should be happy (well except the noobs who will ***** that they dont get that because they dont have the learning skills... but there logic is only slightly less flawed then Noferatu's logic.)
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Tippia
Reikoku IT Alliance
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Posted - 2010.02.23 18:24:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Noferatu Learning skills are (or at least, were) a unique aspect of Eve. They're also an intrinsic part of CCP's business model, in that it takes X amount of time for any new player to generate enough SP and experience before he/she can earn enough isk/month to start buying time cards instead of paying euros.
Don't expect that to change any time soon.
Except that, as mentioned, CCP themselves have stated that putting the learning skills in the game was a mistake. ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki |
b1zz
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Posted - 2010.02.24 00:54:00 -
[26]
Edited by: b1zz on 24/02/2010 01:06:10 There's no reason to remove Learning skills. The mandatory aspect of them is only a few days training. I don't think it's that big an imposition. And although skills like Engineering, Weapons Upgrades, Electronics etc aren't as mandotary they are certainly close to as mandatory as Learning, which means they too should be gifted to new players, or removed, if the Learning skills are going to be. And so the game starts to slip in the direction of dumbing down WOW-ification.
Really this discussion is about the L4-L5 divide, and those that aren't willing to make the commitment, yet hear of those that have and feel, who knows, a perfectionists discomfort maybe. It's a tough decision, difficult to make, good luck making it, game working as intended.
Edit: And btw, as I'm sure everyone knows, this subject has been discussed over and over and over and over...and over. So, in the interest of saving peoples time, I suggest all following posters make your selection of past arguments from those threads and copy/paste them in here (you should have no problem locating your argument, even though previous threads have tended to be quite large, because the arguments in all of them repeat only every few pages or so).
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Angelzin
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Posted - 2010.02.24 04:19:00 -
[27]
I didn't like learning skills either and didn't train them all at the begining either.
At first I trained them to level 4 basics and level 3 advanced and then as time went on kept plugging them in. Now after 8.5 months in game i have 5/4 and like them.
Its all about choices that people make. No need to take them away and reward people who didn't put any time in them with higher attributes.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.24 10:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: Ambo When I started, I trainied up the learning skills because doing anything else felt like a waste of time.
I REALLY wanted to learn other stuff that was more fun but my inner min/maxer simply would not allow it. The thought of all the future training time lost was too much.
This killed the game for me both the first and second times I played it. I can certainly see how new players would be put off by the thought of having to train skills that give them 'nothing' for a month or two before they can think about getting better ships and equipment.
Obviously they don't HAVE to train these skills but those who understand the benefit will want to and they'll want to do so as soon as possible. This is even more true with the 'skill point gap illusion' seperating them from older players.
IMo, CCP should do away with the learning skills. I know first-hand that they contribute to a lot of players leaving eve in thier first month or two. It could be argued that they contribute a 'tough choice' dynamic but tbh, there more than enough 'essential' skills to do that already.
So because you - by your own admission - made a dumb choice, CCP should remove that choice for everyone?
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xXxWardenMagenxXx
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Posted - 2010.02.24 10:34:00 -
[29]
Originally by: Tippia Except that, as mentioned, CCP themselves have stated that putting the learning skills in the game was a mistake.
If this is the case, then why not cut the cost of the advanced skill books? 22.5m is a joke for a newbie. Or even better, grant all learning books to new accounts but have them set to 0. You want the gain, then you still have the time pain, but at least all earnings can be used for the fun stuff
This may p*ss off people who have already progressed and had the drain to their ISK, but then again, advanced players are likely to the stage to have lost more down the back of their pilot seat by now. Not the case for the poor starters. I think they are a great asset when you start playing as you can actually see progress as those other skills in your queue reduce in time as each learning skill is gained. Very gratifying
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Shaemell Buttleson
Euphoria Released
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Posted - 2010.02.24 10:54:00 -
[30]
I think not only should all new characters have the learning skills maxed they should also have a racial frigate, cruiser and BS plus the core skills maxed as well because the poor things have to wait a few weeks before they can use them well.
* Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. - CCP Ildoge
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Restless Phantom
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Posted - 2010.02.24 12:29:00 -
[31]
Originally by: Akita T Text
My text of "as fast as possible" is not about learning skills, its about SKILLS period. You want to train at as much speed as possible not?
Im agreeing with you though Akita, my bad english is getting in the way of my point though. I dont tell newbies to skill learnings since I myself got that in my face when I started and it just ruins the game spending 2 weeks of training stuff that "doesnt improve your character".
That is my point, the learnings are a annoyance nothing else, they are not good for anything BESIDES getting your other stuff faster later and they are if not absolutely mandatory, far more then say engineering on a OVERALL base. Had they been pre-reqs for maybe having a high willpower to use a commandship or having high charisma to get discounts of trades or something It wouldnt feel just as annoying training them.
But as they stand they are a block of points used to get a bigger block of points later.
Though as I said, I dont mind them all that much, besides the fact that people DO TELL newbies to go "learning first" and that ruins the game in a sense..
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Volsted Gridban
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Posted - 2010.02.24 16:22:00 -
[32]
When I first started playing EVE, they didn't have the 2x skillpoints n00b bonus. I went through the whole "pick your race/bloodline/profession/academy" thing.
I was told that I needed to train up the learning skills to 4/4 each, otherwise it would take an unreasonably long time to train up anything else.
Without the 2x skillpoints n00b bonus, it takes around 3 weeks to train all the learning skills to 4/4.
So my first 3 weeks in the game were spent training learning skills.
I followed that up with training up to Scrapmetal Processing, for reasons which I can't recall but which doubtless made sense to me at the time.
After that I quit the game for nearly 2 years.
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Mirke
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Posted - 2010.02.24 17:19:00 -
[33]
Originally by: Volsted Gridban When I first started playing EVE, they didn't have the 2x skillpoints n00b bonus. I went through the whole "pick your race/bloodline/profession/academy" thing.
I was told that I needed to train up the learning skills to 4/4 each, otherwise it would take an unreasonably long time to train up anything else.
Without the 2x skillpoints n00b bonus, it takes around 3 weeks to train all the learning skills to 4/4.
So my first 3 weeks in the game were spent training learning skills.
I followed that up with training up to Scrapmetal Processing, for reasons which I can't recall but which doubtless made sense to me at the time.
After that I quit the game for nearly 2 years.
QFT. I did the same thing, except it was Mining to lvl 5, even though the only time I mined was for that mission in the beginning where you had to. And I only quit for 4 months before getting bored with other games and giving EVE a try again.
I still say the old character creation thing is superior to the new one.
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.24 20:31:00 -
[34]
Originally by: xXxWardenMagenxXx
Originally by: Tippia Except that, as mentioned, CCP themselves have stated that putting the learning skills in the game was a mistake.
If this is the case, then why not cut the cost of the advanced skill books? 22.5m is a joke for a newbie.
That's what's called a Hint
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bff Jill
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Posted - 2010.02.26 17:45:00 -
[35]
the ability to give people training speed boosts now really does open up the possibility to remove learning skills.
The whole reason that removing them and giving everyone the attributes inherently was that it would screw over people who spent time training in them already.
I see no mechanic that makes it unfair to those people if they more or less get a reimbursement of those skill points.
I too have quit eve on several occasions just because the time it takes raising my learning skills for a new character resulted in me usually losing interest in the game.
The attribute remapping however has worsened this issue, because now you not only MUST raise learning skills first, you MUST raise all fitting and science and drone skills first also, because you are sitting on an int/mem attribute layout, that you use for several months until all those things are high enough/maxed to your liking. Then you go to a perc based remap, and can FINALLY start training other skills.
In retrospect i think the entire attribute system was a bad idea. They probably should have just had a fixed skill point increase rate.
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Wikis
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Posted - 2010.02.26 18:05:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Tippia If it's any consolation, CCP regrets putting them in the gameā
where exactly did this information come from ?
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.02.26 18:39:00 -
[37]
Originally by: Wikis
Originally by: Tippia If it's any consolation, CCP regrets putting them in the gameā
where exactly did this information come from ?
One guy said it once, 5 years ago.
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Guttripper
Caldari State War Academy
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Posted - 2010.02.28 18:30:00 -
[38]
Oh, this beaten to death, horse's ass issue again...
I mentioned it before - CCP should double the required skill points for all skills. Let players slow down and experience aspects of the game in terms of modules and ships passed over in today's faster paced game.
But those instant gratification kiddies want it _now_.
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Jagerwolf
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Posted - 2010.02.28 20:23:00 -
[39]
It's so heart-warming to see so many people wanting to make it "fair" by reimbursing skillpoints if learning is removed. How about we make it really fair and reimburse those skill points, whilst taking away any skill-points gained as a result of having learning skills. Everyone still wants to make it fair right?
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Boltorano
Fourth Circle Total Comfort
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Posted - 2010.02.28 22:33:00 -
[40]
Edited by: Boltorano on 28/02/2010 22:33:46
Originally by: Jagerwolf How about we make it really fair and reimburse those skill points, whilst taking away any skill-points gained as a result of having learning skills.
How is that fair at all? My suggestion puts EVERYONE on even ground, not just the people who went to the effort of training the skills already. The only people who would lose are the people who already had them trained if we listed to your idea.
Also, because good luck waiting on CCP giving anyone a chance to redistribute SP.
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Darian De'Mourne
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Posted - 2010.02.28 23:13:00 -
[41]
Originally by: bff Jill the ability to give people training speed boosts now really does open up the possibility to remove learning skills.
The whole reason that removing them and giving everyone the attributes inherently was that it would screw over people who spent time training in them already.
I see no mechanic that makes it unfair to those people if they more or less get a reimbursement of those skill points.
I too have quit eve on several occasions just because the time it takes raising my learning skills for a new character resulted in me usually losing interest in the game.
The attribute remapping however has worsened this issue, because now you not only MUST raise learning skills first, you MUST raise all fitting and science and drone skills first also, because you are sitting on an int/mem attribute layout, that you use for several months until all those things are high enough/maxed to your liking. Then you go to a perc based remap, and can FINALLY start training other skills.
In retrospect i think the entire attribute system was a bad idea. They probably should have just had a fixed skill point increase rate.
In month 7 of the Int/Mem spec. And yes, having no DPS sucks.
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Jagerwolf
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Posted - 2010.02.28 23:34:00 -
[42]
Edited by: Jagerwolf on 28/02/2010 23:35:21
Originally by: Boltorano Edited by: Boltorano on 28/02/2010 22:33:46
How is that fair at all? My suggestion puts EVERYONE on even ground, not just the people who went to the effort of training the skills already. The only people who would lose are the people who already had them trained if we listed to your idea.
Also, because good luck waiting on CCP giving anyone a chance to redistribute SP.
CCP are far too lazy to get rid of learning skills, so no I'm not treating this seriously. Also if you gave it any thought you'd realize my suggestion is actually fair because in terms of sp it is akin to learning skills never existing. Yours is essentially rewarding those with learning skills twice (i.e. they benefit from having a higher rate of sp gain for however long they had it trained, and they get to redistribute those "wasted" points). Not only is my idea fairer, but the EVE forums would be side-splittingly entertaining for at least a month as all the self-styled "hardcore" players simultaneously burst into tears at their lost sp
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
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Posted - 2010.03.01 11:05:00 -
[43]
Originally by: Darian De'Mourne
Originally by: bff Jill the ability to give people training speed boosts now really does open up the possibility to remove learning skills.
The whole reason that removing them and giving everyone the attributes inherently was that it would screw over people who spent time training in them already.
I see no mechanic that makes it unfair to those people if they more or less get a reimbursement of those skill points.
I too have quit eve on several occasions just because the time it takes raising my learning skills for a new character resulted in me usually losing interest in the game.
The attribute remapping however has worsened this issue, because now you not only MUST raise learning skills first, you MUST raise all fitting and science and drone skills first also, because you are sitting on an int/mem attribute layout, that you use for several months until all those things are high enough/maxed to your liking. Then you go to a perc based remap, and can FINALLY start training other skills.
In retrospect i think the entire attribute system was a bad idea. They probably should have just had a fixed skill point increase rate.
In month 7 of the Int/Mem spec. And yes, having no DPS sucks.
But your SP increeae rate is so efficient. That's better than playing the game, right? You are pleased with the decision you made to prioritise your efficiency over your fun?
Listen up people, this is really simple:
Skillpoints are not the aim of the game.
They're just another tool you can use to achieve your aims, like ISK, assets, connections, game knowledge, your player skill and your social skills. You need to balance your efforts to acquire and improve all of the things I have listed, not just one at the expense of all the others. To focus purely on SP at the expense of all these other tools is foolish and self-defeating. You're as bad as people who RMT 10 billion ISK in their first month and then lose their officer-fit T1 CNR in lo-sec. You cant buy your way to win and you cant SP your way to win either.
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Marko Riva
Adamant Inc.
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Posted - 2010.03.01 13:50:00 -
[44]
The point is choice, as with everything in EVE.
----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service |
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