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Why I'm disappointed in EVE after 6 years

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Tao Moribus	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:00:00 - [1] Since I don't have anywhere else to put this, it can go here for a while. Dear CCP, I have had an account since 2004, and until fairly recently I've been quite content to go about my life in EVE. I've enjoyed all the great new features you've added, and it's certain that EVE has gone from strength to strength. I have fought in wars, done about a billion agent missions, mined, built stuff, colonised Wspace, etc. I am unhappy because I enjoy PVE encounters more than PVP. I have no problem with PVP being an integrated part of the game, provided that I still get value from the non PVP elements. I find it very very sad that after all these years PVP and PVE are still two totally separate elements of EVE in terms of the core game. If you are set up for PVP, you're pretty useless for PVE, and vice versa (yes I know there are circumstances where this isn't the case). I also dislike the fact that the balance is skewed towards PVP players (WCS give +1 warp strength, Scramblers can give -2. Just make the WCS have the opposite stats to scramblers CCP, how is this so hard?! WCS already give you a pretty hefty nerf to your ship, why not also let them actually do what they are supposed to do??). I mention this because I am a big fan of exploration, and to get anything decent, you need to go into low and nullsec. Now I don't have any problem with this, I think it's great. I do have a problem though when in order to actually do the exploration site, I need to fit for PVE, then I get ganked by pirates who then crow about how great they are and how crap my fit was for PVP. Yes pirates, I know I was fitted for PVE, but that's because if I want to enjoy the content that CCP has provided, I need to fit for PVE to survive it. And yes, I know there is a social element to EVE, and you're thinking "poor guy has no friends, he was out soloing" (which incidentally is the insult the pirates used), when in fact the case is that many of my friends are so disheartened by the same problems I have that they just don't bother to play anymore, or they have given in and 'gone pirate' themselves because there is very little to do once agent missions become so easy you can AFK them, and you've got bored of endlessly fighting wars and you've put up a million POS's and you've bought every ship you can be bothered to. And the rest of my friends have little interest in PVP because their main experience of it is getting ganked. CCP, I really like EVE a great deal, and I guess I'm a veteran player. I know I'm not the first to say this, nor will I be the last. But please, remove 'PVE/PVP' from EVE totally, and make it just 'combat'. I don't really care if I only have to fight 2-3 rats on a lv4 mission, just make them so they are fitted like a PVP setup player and it'll be a good challenge. Do something to address the balance between these two aspects. I'm very tired of getting smacktalked by pirates because I've just got ganked by 2-5 of them, truth is, If I was set up for PVP, it probably wouldn't have ended any differently, but at least it would have been a fair fight. And this loops back to my point "...provided that I still get value from the non PVP elements." I don't feel that I do get value, I don't want to have to be forced to play with a large group all the time to enjoy any more more than a low level encounter or a very very dull agent mission, I can solo these sites, and do frequently, what I can't solo is pirate gank squads who specifically look for people doing exploration sites. In all honesty, I hate scramblers so very much, I will go so far as to say they actually ruin the game for me, they are too easy to fit and use considering what they do. Scramblers, imo, should work in a similar way to ECM jamming, so that it's not a 100% dampening all the time, it's got a chance of failing, WCS should work like ECCM or sensor boosters, and give the scramblers a decreased chance of working every cycle. This would at least make it a little more fair.
Estel Arador Minmatar Estel Arador Corp Services	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:02:00 - [2] Scramblers are the Devil! Free jumpclone service\|874 stations - Truly Universal
Dipluz Caldari Sacred Templars	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:11:00 - [3] Not to flame other anything, But it seems u need to explore the pvp section a lot more to understand pvp mechanics more properly and understand, WHY it is like it is now, its inteded, its not some bug. And when it comes to PVP it takes a long time to become really good at it as a group. Also the fact that some people are just in general better at certaint things than other. And also remember, theres always someone bigger and better than you. You need to learn how to pick the fights. Except for that, Can I have your stuff? --------------------------
Vekka Tarr	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:12:00 - [4] I believe a scout, be it another player or an alt would have saved you in this scenario. Scrams have a range of about 9km, which is also web range, so it's not like they're the overpowered carebear stopper of doom. We all have unfortunate experiences in EVE, but making all combat the same would be nutsy completely. The REASON that EvP and PvP is different is because players specialise their ships for efficiency, a typical pirate ship is not going to be as good as a fleet ship or a small gang ship in a pvp situation. Depending on all sorts of elements of course.
Ris Dnalor Minmatar Ex Cruoris Libertas	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:15:00 - [5] I feel ya. I agree it would be nice to have ai that functions more like a pvper would so that you could use a similar setup for both pve and pvp. I think many folks would agree with this. However, I don't think it'll happen... at least not anytime soon. That being said, there are a few ship setups that function for pve while providing at least some survivability if you get jumped by pvpers. Peruse the forums, play with EFT, or if you prefer, pop me an eve-mail in-game if you would like to discuss it. Fly well or die well :)
ISHKUR MASTER Gallente	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:15:00 - [6] Sad to hear you have had enough. I mission in PVP fit, then I have no excuse, it means I actually have to pilot to stay alive, but I guess I am ready for those nasty Pirates you talk about. In the point of scramblers, they ain't that bad, if you expect to be scrammed then you can plan to escape. Though the thought of it being chance based is a idea I support, giving a more diverse chance of escape, but really if you don't want to be scrammed as you would already know being around for so long, sacrifice the lows for 2xWCS giving you the chance of escape against one pilot with a 2 point scram. There are plenty of counters to warp disruption and scrambling.
Julius Rigel	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:16:00 - [7] Dear Mr. Moribus, I'd like to offer my own opinions on the matter of warp scramblers: Warp scramblers drain a huge amount of energy from your ship. Consider this when you equip a warp core stabilizer, that gives you half the amount of effect for none of the capacitor cost. Now that I have offered my subjective opinion and you have offered your subjective opinion, they should adequately harmonize and cancel each other out. Since there was no other apparent motive for your post, I'll assume this topic is done.
Zartrader	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:21:00 - [8] PVE in a PVP environment is certainly discouraged in EVE. It's why many of us do not bother to go to low or null sec for missions (just having to get RSI from spamming the scanner is enough to put me off and fitting a WCS is a big no no anyway thanks to the penalties) I've accepted it's the way the game is and it limits what I can do. Anyone who brags about killing a PVE fitted ship I would simply ignore. It would not take them much to balance it, a few simple changes, but they won't do it and that's that really. If anything they have made it easier for PVP players to find and kill PVE fitted players over the years. CCP don't like PVE and only stick it in to get a few more subs and provide easy prey.
lollerwaffle Sileo In Pacis THE SPACE P0LICE	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:25:00 - [9] o/ Ask for a ransom next time, and don't call us *****s again. Not all policemen are ***s. Originally by:** salva dore Cloak should not be AFK solution. What do you think? Originally by: AFK Cloaker
Jack Dant Minmatar The Gentlemen of Low Moral Fibre	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:29:00 - [10] A simple look at OP's killboard (hint: proteus loss) shows where he's coming from. Lowsec exploration is PVP: it's you using your brains to avoid getting ganked. Fitting a WCS and warping off when a single ship with a single long range disruptor comes in is not really using your brains, is it? If you want to do it solo, you'll have to be smart and sneaky. Running plexes in a gank magnet like a proteus right in the middle of a FW pipe is neither smart nor sneaky. But, if you can do it in a gang, well, you only need one PVE fitted tank, Everyone else can fly their favorite PVP ship and gank whoever tries to gank you.
Gladys Pank Amarr Trillionaire High-Rollers Suicidal Bassoon Orkesta	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:31:00 - [11] Mess with scramblers and you kill solo pvp. I find it hard to believe you have played for six years and don't know how to get to a safe spot while plexing. Scramblers shouldn't even be an issue in this case, you should be long gone before a threat gets within 10km. ~ Soar Like a Penguin
TimMc Gallente Trans-Solar Works Rooks and Kings	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:34:00 - [12] Everyone likes the idea of npcs behaving more like players so we dont have pve fits so different, but ccp doesn't seem to.
Marko Riva Adamant Inc.	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:38:00 - [13] Edited by: Marko Riva on 26/02/2010 11:38:28 Losing a ship in EVE is a choice, there's a whole chain of events that must happen with your consent before you can get killed. If you choose not to pay attention, you choose not to check your scanner, you choose not to be aligned, you choose to be at the warpin point, you choose to not have scouts/friends/active corp then yeah, you choose to die. Stop choosing to die and things will become better. The first step is putting in the effort to learn about the "enemy", the second step is to use that knowledge and act upon it. How long you played has no bearing on that, it's about putting in the effort to learn. ----------- I think, therefore I'm single. Want to learn combat/PVP? Alliance creation service
Kolatha	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:38:00 - [14] Edited by: Kolatha on 26/02/2010 11:39:39 Originally by: Julius Rigel Dear Mr. Moribus, I'd like to offer my own opinions on the matter of warp scramblers: Warp scramblers drain a huge amount of energy from your ship. Consider this when you equip a warp core stabilizer, that gives you half the amount of effect for none of the capacitor cost. Now that I have offered my subjective opinion and you have offered your subjective opinion, they should adequately harmonize and cancel each other out. Since there was no other apparent motive for your post, I'll assume this topic is done. Scramblers, the short range 2 pointers, don't suck up much cap at all. It's the 20k disruptor that chews through the cap. I would prefer if the WCS did actually drain cap, at a slightly higher rate than the same meta disruptor rather than screw over the the ship's sensors. I would also prefer if the whole scrambling/stabilising thing did work more like ECM/ECCM as mr Moribus suggested. But hey, we are stuck with the way it is so we need to just suck it up and work with what we got. A bit of forethought and a healthy dose of paranoia works well enough for now, works well enough for me at least.
Rivur'Tam X10 PUNISHM4NT	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:42:00 - [15] This is just the same old whine just well written eve is all about risk v reward, what u want is too be able to go to null or lowsec without any risk , since u used the age old whine i will give u the age old reply go play wow u can pve without risk there what you want changed is what makes eve so great your just moaning cos u lost ur t3 ship emo rage i do think ... where is my sig somebody stole my vid watch now
Xander XacXorien	Posted - 2010.02.26 11:44:00 - [16] To me Eve has been broken for a long, long time. Eve has always been about no risk no reward. Yet minja salvaging is game breaking and makes a mokery of people paying for their accounts when a trial account can access the same rewards. 0.0 sovernity is a joke,, capture the flag mechanics just enhance blobs. PvP and PvE mix of content in low sec is a joke on the players, sick in the head and quite frankly insulting to call this "content". But in Eve I ignore this crap and yes it is crap - not worth a penny of my money. But I doubt CCP will ever listen as I dont think they stick to their own standards never mind anyone elses. The only way to get a game in Eve is to sift through the crap to find the gold,, and the gold is getting smaller with every release.
Mashie Saldana Red Federation	Posted - 2010.02.26 12:00:00 - [17] It is never too late to join RvB, you will find out everything you need about PVP there without losing expensive ships.
Tuberider Caldari Pothouse Cartel IDLE EMPIRE	Posted - 2010.02.26 12:09:00 - [18] 6 year old carebear spotted or did you buy that account ?
CommmanderInChief Comply Or Die	Posted - 2010.02.26 12:16:00 - [19] what i think is worse are Neuts... i think its crazy that every mod, every item on your ship etc is based on your cap. so if you get neuted you cant tank, you cant move, you cant shoot you cant do feck all..thats just stupid that one mod can do that and you cant do anything about it...
Boomershoot Caldari Suddenly Ninjas	Posted - 2010.02.26 12:26:00 - [20] Originally by: Tao Moribus Scramblers, imo, should work in a similar way to ECM jamming, so that it's not a 100% dampening all the time, it's got a chance of failing, WCS should work like ECCM or sensor boosters, and give the scramblers a decreased chance of working every cycle. This would at least make it a little more fair. Let's Chance-base everything. Mining Lasers Bounties Wrecks Mission Rewards Aggression Flags Drones Orders Weapons Tanks All modules should be chance-based.
Tippia Reikoku IT Alliance	Posted - 2010.02.26 12:31:00 - [21] Originally by: Boomershoot Let's Chance-base everything. Mining Lasers Bounties Wrecks Mission Rewards Aggression Flags Drones Orders √ Weapons Tanks All modules should be chance-based. One down, seven to go… ——— “If you're not willing to fight for what you have in ≡v≡… you don't deserve it, and you will lose it.” — Karath Piki
BBQfire	Posted - 2010.02.26 12:37:00 - [22] I would really welcome it if PvE needs more fittings like PvP because this way you can train in missions and not only with friends when they are online. And I think other noobs like me would also profit from it.
MatrixSkye Mk2 Minmatar	Posted - 2010.02.26 12:43:00 - [23] The problem is that even if CCP were to merge PVP and PVE pirates would still blob/gank you. They'll just bring more people to gank you. When I tried missions in lo sec I'd have 6+ pirates show up into my missions when 1 or 2 would do the job. The funny thing is when 12 players show up to confront their 6 they cry "BLOB!1!". Grief a PVP'er. Run a mission today!
Dusica	Posted - 2010.02.26 13:11:00 - [24]
My Postman	Posted - 2010.02.26 13:21:00 - [25] Well, if your a vet player you should know what i know as a one year old... 1) If solo, scout your way to lowsec in a shuttle, you can afford these 15 mins. 2) PVP fit your ship while travelling into lowsec, carry the pve modules in your cargohold. Refit in station. 3) Using a Proteus, having paintet "I¦M HERE, PLEASE GANK/BLOB ME" on it, is¦nt helpful when a drake can do the job easily. 4)While travelling the cloak/mwd trick helps a lot. At least this helps me through low sec, and, oh yes i¦ve fallen into gatecamps too, and i died. Just my two cents.
Malcanis Vanishing Point. The Initiative.	Posted - 2010.02.26 14:14:00 - [26] Originally by: CommmanderInChief what i think is worse are Neuts... i think its crazy that every mod, every item on your ship etc is based on your cap. No they aren't. 3 out of 5 weapon systems, for a start.
Hellspawn666 Minmatar Emo Rangers Electric Monkey Overlords	Posted - 2010.02.26 14:43:00 - [27] Im also a 2004 player and eve has certainly changed alot but from what i can tell you havent really tried anything other than solo carebearing so perhaps eve is the wrong game for you. If you have been playing since 2004 you should know as i do that CCP were considering making warp scrams chance based like CCP it made it onto the test server but they saw the inherant issues with it. Mainly that during a pvp fight that lasts say 2 minutes, you only have to have your warp disruptor fail once for the guy to get away. This meant that in almost all fights the player could get away which meant the only way to kill people would be to have a heck of alot of players tackling and ganking the same guy. CCP needs to focus the enphasis away from gank fleets not towards it, as you suggest. I would agree with you that PVE is unbalanced in low sec as the risk is very high (higher than 0.0 in most cases due to its population) while the rewards is tiny. This means that the only thing worth pveing in lowsec is moon mining which directly ties into pvp anyway. I quite like this mechanic as it means the two are linked as i feel all aspects of eve should be.
Genya Arikaido	Posted - 2010.02.26 14:53:00 - [28] I think the OP's main point is that to do PvE vs PvP content, the variance in equipment needed for each is too wide. He wants to be able to PvE or PvP in pretty much the same fitting, which to me makes sense. Though, some of his examples are excessively carebearish, such as the request to make WCS be +2. Originally by: CCP Tuxford my bad. Rest assured I'm being ridiculed by my co-workers.
bff Jill	Posted - 2010.02.26 15:07:00 - [29] It would be nice if there was not such a discrepancy in fittings and tactics between pve and pvp. It would probably make pve more fun in the process.
CommmanderInChief Comply Or Die	Posted - 2010.02.26 15:18:00 - [30] Originally by: Malcanis Originally by: CommmanderInChief what i think is worse are Neuts... i think its crazy that every mod, every item on your ship etc is based on your cap. No they aren't. 3 out of 5 weapon systems, for a start. Cool that really helps when you got no tank, or you cant get away cos your afterburner and mwd dont work..

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