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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:17:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:24:28
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:20:05
The way missiles move was not changed - it¦s only the speed! If a interceptor flys 1 direction at 3300 m/s, orbits at 5 km with 2500 m/s it wont get hit. But if the same interceptor orbits at 2,5 km it will get hit, because the missile has no problem doing this cricle with 2400 m/s, while the interceptors speed will drop to 1900 m/s.
The whole thing is crap. A cruise missile is a BS weapon. It shouldnt be able to hit an interceptor - an interceptor should be way too fast and agile for such a big missile. The real problem is that CCP make it impossible to load light and heavy missiles into a siege launcher. Make possible to load light and heavy missiles into siege and cruise launcher and the thing is fixed. Cruise missiles should be slower than light missiles. Sidewinder missile in RL is also faster than Tomahawk cruise missile. Sidewinder is made to hit Migs and Tomahawk to hit slow or not moving tanked targets.
Logical change:
-Torps 600 m/s
-Cruise missile 1000 m/s
-Heavy missile 1500 m/s
-Light missile 2500 m/s
-Rockets 5000 m/s
Big launchers must be able to load small missiles too.
Missile fix done...
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:17:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:24:28
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:20:05
The way missiles move was not changed - it¦s only the speed! If a interceptor flys 1 direction at 3300 m/s, orbits at 5 km with 2500 m/s it wont get hit. But if the same interceptor orbits at 2,5 km it will get hit, because the missile has no problem doing this cricle with 2400 m/s, while the interceptors speed will drop to 1900 m/s.
The whole thing is crap. A cruise missile is a BS weapon. It shouldnt be able to hit an interceptor - an interceptor should be way too fast and agile for such a big missile. The real problem is that CCP make it impossible to load light and heavy missiles into a siege launcher. Make possible to load light and heavy missiles into siege and cruise launcher and the thing is fixed. Cruise missiles should be slower than light missiles. Sidewinder missile in RL is also faster than Tomahawk cruise missile. Sidewinder is made to hit Migs and Tomahawk to hit slow or not moving tanked targets.
Logical change:
-Torps 600 m/s
-Cruise missile 1000 m/s
-Heavy missile 1500 m/s
-Light missile 2500 m/s
-Rockets 5000 m/s
Big launchers must be able to load small missiles too.
Missile fix done...
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:26:00 -
[153]
 Originally by: Lifewire
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:24:28
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:20:05
Logical change:
-Torps 600 m/s
-Cruise missile 1000 m/s
-Heavy missile 1500 m/s
-Light missile 2500 m/s
-Rockets 5000 m/s
Big launchers must be able to load small missiles too.
Missile fix done...
this whuld ruin Ravens fleet battle abilities, what arent wonderful even with current system
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:26:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Lifewire
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:24:28
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:20:05
Logical change:
-Torps 600 m/s
-Cruise missile 1000 m/s
-Heavy missile 1500 m/s
-Light missile 2500 m/s
-Rockets 5000 m/s
Big launchers must be able to load small missiles too.
Missile fix done...
this whuld ruin Ravens fleet battle abilities, what arent wonderful even with current system
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Stan hyd
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:28:00 -
[155]
funny change
still gonna fly an inter i reckon ill be ok
STIZUM
FACTA NON VERBA |
Stan hyd
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:28:00 -
[156]
funny change
still gonna fly an inter i reckon ill be ok
STIZUM
FACTA NON VERBA |
Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:39:00 -
[157]
Do not change anything, just make the missiles as they were before.
everything was fine, carelessness got you killed back then too.
No need for revolutionary solutions and un-asked changes,
just bring it back as it was.
-------------------
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Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:39:00 -
[158]
Do not change anything, just make the missiles as they were before.
everything was fine, carelessness got you killed back then too.
No need for revolutionary solutions and un-asked changes,
just bring it back as it was.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:54:00 -
[159]
Originally by: agrizla
...but then again missiles are WAY overpowered at the moment. I'm sure TomB will be along to nerf everything in sight into oblivion soon anyway 
Missles are NOT OVERPOWERED. If you consider the maximum possible damage a Raven pilot can do with 6 siege launchers and maxed missle skills it is still nothing compared to what guns can do. A Raven can be easily tanked by any tier 2 BS as the max damage is very much limited. Of course missles are nice against friggs/cruisers, but hey: a cruise missle hitting a frigg MUST be a problem.
I like realistic and logical changes and this one IS a good change. Fix defenders and everything is fine.
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:54:00 -
[160]
Originally by: agrizla
...but then again missiles are WAY overpowered at the moment. I'm sure TomB will be along to nerf everything in sight into oblivion soon anyway
Missles are NOT OVERPOWERED. If you consider the maximum possible damage a Raven pilot can do with 6 siege launchers and maxed missle skills it is still nothing compared to what guns can do. A Raven can be easily tanked by any tier 2 BS as the max damage is very much limited. Of course missles are nice against friggs/cruisers, but hey: a cruise missle hitting a frigg MUST be a problem.
I like realistic and logical changes and this one IS a good change. Fix defenders and everything is fine.
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Holi
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:57:00 -
[161]
Agree, bring back the old system.
Don't just check one side of the coin.
--
Holi
[ md5 checksum calculator ] |
Holi
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:57:00 -
[162]
Agree, bring back the old system.
Don't just check one side of the coin.
--
Holi
[ md5 checksum calculator ] |
Andrew Redburn
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 15:04:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Helmut 314
Well, tell me this then :
From a RP perspective, Gallente and Amarr have arch enemies that rely on missiles for a large portion of their firepower. Its just stupid that they havent developed a counter to such an important offensive enemy system.
Im not asking for a wtfpwn omg missiles-cant-hit-me system, but its hardly good game mechanics like its turning into : omg-he-fired-a-volley-of-missiles-im-dead.
Turrets can be jammed, tracking disrupted and hit badly against a fast-moving target. Missiles hit anything in range and has jamming circumvention available.( FOF )
The missle owning system is named ROCKET LAUNCHER.
One rocket launcher with a ROF of 3s is enough to render 4! Siege Launcher close to useless (Siege RoF with Caldari BS lv5 on a Raven is ~12.5s). Fit 2 of them (which IS possible on almost any BS) and you are fine. Anymore questions?
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2004.11.29 15:04:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Helmut 314
Well, tell me this then :
From a RP perspective, Gallente and Amarr have arch enemies that rely on missiles for a large portion of their firepower. Its just stupid that they havent developed a counter to such an important offensive enemy system.
Im not asking for a wtfpwn omg missiles-cant-hit-me system, but its hardly good game mechanics like its turning into : omg-he-fired-a-volley-of-missiles-im-dead.
Turrets can be jammed, tracking disrupted and hit badly against a fast-moving target. Missiles hit anything in range and has jamming circumvention available.( FOF )
The missle owning system is named ROCKET LAUNCHER.
One rocket launcher with a ROF of 3s is enough to render 4! Siege Launcher close to useless (Siege RoF with Caldari BS lv5 on a Raven is ~12.5s). Fit 2 of them (which IS possible on almost any BS) and you are fine. Anymore questions?
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2004.11.29 15:09:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Lifewire
Cruise missiles should be slower than light missiles. Sidewinder missile in RL is also faster than Tomahawk cruise missile. Sidewinder is made to hit Migs and Tomahawk to hit slow or not moving tanked targets.
Since we are in space, we have less effects making bigger missles being slower. In fact the only thing determining the speed of a missle here is its mass vs. engine. And a CM can have a numerous times bigger engine than a light missle thus making speed equally high or even higher (as the warhead is small compared to the full mass, but still number of times the one of a light missle).
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2004.11.29 15:09:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Lifewire
Cruise missiles should be slower than light missiles. Sidewinder missile in RL is also faster than Tomahawk cruise missile. Sidewinder is made to hit Migs and Tomahawk to hit slow or not moving tanked targets.
Since we are in space, we have less effects making bigger missles being slower. In fact the only thing determining the speed of a missle here is its mass vs. engine. And a CM can have a numerous times bigger engine than a light missle thus making speed equally high or even higher (as the warhead is small compared to the full mass, but still number of times the one of a light missle).
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.11.29 15:18:00 -
[167]
Why should the biggest missile be the fastest, while the missiles that should be meant for interceptor killing are too slow to catch an interceptor??? Not logical this.
The Raven will be fine even if the cruise missiles go only 1000 m/s. The big advantadge of the Raven is, that he deosnt have to care about tracking or distance. Fire and forget. All the gunships have to keep an eye on distance and tracking.
Right now the Raven is the best anti-friggi BS. Hav a Raven with some sensor boosters, 2 nosferatus, some webbers within your fleet should fix any friggi-problems.
Meanwhile an Apocs or Geddons perforcemance vs friggis is near 0. Bad balance. I really know what i talk of, because we destroyed tons of BS in friggis-teams. Ravens are dangerous, so are Scorpions - but forget the gunships, they can be downed with 2 interceptors except an Apoc wich could tank the damage output of 8 interceptors.
I would really balance this things about the ammo. A Raven could load small fast missiles, that don¦t do devastating damage like a cruise missile volley on a 900 hitpoint-ship. And gunships should have a special "shotgun"-ammo for their guns to defend themselves against friggis. This gun-ammo must do much lees damage than the normal ammo, but it should be able to hit friggis.
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.11.29 15:18:00 -
[168]
Why should the biggest missile be the fastest, while the missiles that should be meant for interceptor killing are too slow to catch an interceptor??? Not logical this.
The Raven will be fine even if the cruise missiles go only 1000 m/s. The big advantadge of the Raven is, that he deosnt have to care about tracking or distance. Fire and forget. All the gunships have to keep an eye on distance and tracking.
Right now the Raven is the best anti-friggi BS. Hav a Raven with some sensor boosters, 2 nosferatus, some webbers within your fleet should fix any friggi-problems.
Meanwhile an Apocs or Geddons perforcemance vs friggis is near 0. Bad balance. I really know what i talk of, because we destroyed tons of BS in friggis-teams. Ravens are dangerous, so are Scorpions - but forget the gunships, they can be downed with 2 interceptors except an Apoc wich could tank the damage output of 8 interceptors.
I would really balance this things about the ammo. A Raven could load small fast missiles, that don¦t do devastating damage like a cruise missile volley on a 900 hitpoint-ship. And gunships should have a special "shotgun"-ammo for their guns to defend themselves against friggis. This gun-ammo must do much lees damage than the normal ammo, but it should be able to hit friggis.
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Derisor
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Posted - 2004.11.29 15:37:00 -
[169]
LOL ... everyone keeps telling anyone complaining about the missile imbalance to "adapt"
If you dont fly a missile boat now you are out of your mind. They might as well remove turrets.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Derisor
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Posted - 2004.11.29 15:37:00 -
[170]
LOL ... everyone keeps telling anyone complaining about the missile imbalance to "adapt"
If you dont fly a missile boat now you are out of your mind. They might as well remove turrets.
---------
The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.11.29 18:30:00 -
[171]
Reducing cruise missile speed requires to increase it's life
otherwise the range is shortened by much.
so no, reducing the speed isn't really the best solution.
using defenders.. it might work, yet defenders afaik won't have time to react.
the flight time before detonation(assuming the tackler is scrambling, not disrupting)
is so short that it's simply beyond any multiplayer game
to correctly process this kind of reactons, imho.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 18:30:00 -
[172]
Reducing cruise missile speed requires to increase it's life
otherwise the range is shortened by much.
so no, reducing the speed isn't really the best solution.
using defenders.. it might work, yet defenders afaik won't have time to react.
the flight time before detonation(assuming the tackler is scrambling, not disrupting)
is so short that it's simply beyond any multiplayer game
to correctly process this kind of reactons, imho.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Solant
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Posted - 2004.11.29 19:19:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Solant on 29/11/2004 19:22:50
Actually, this change benefits frigate pilots who know what they're up against. No, you can't simply hit "Orbit at 5km". But with proper tactics you will be able to avoid being hit by many missiles that previously would have hit you. You have to factor in speed and direction, because thats what the missile aims for. I was able to kill a Kestrel last night in my Rifter and I only took one missile hit- and I never left 15km or so distance.
However, there are still serious balance problems between missiles and turrets, and cruise missiles in general...
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Solant
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Posted - 2004.11.29 19:19:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Solant on 29/11/2004 19:22:50
Actually, this change benefits frigate pilots who know what they're up against. No, you can't simply hit "Orbit at 5km". But with proper tactics you will be able to avoid being hit by many missiles that previously would have hit you. You have to factor in speed and direction, because thats what the missile aims for. I was able to kill a Kestrel last night in my Rifter and I only took one missile hit- and I never left 15km or so distance.
However, there are still serious balance problems between missiles and turrets, and cruise missiles in general...
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Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.11.30 06:58:00 -
[175]
perhaps if we change this topic to 'question about quafe'
we'll get a dev answer 
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.11.30 06:58:00 -
[176]
perhaps if we change this topic to 'question about quafe'
we'll get a dev answer
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
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