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Nervar
   |
Posted - 2004.11.27 15:53:00 -
[1]
So whats up with the new Misille physics?? They no longer follow Targets they will try and cut of your path.. Wich is death to small ships.
Misille boats where tough to break with small fast ships before exodus, now their even crazier
------------------------------------------------->
What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
|
Nervar
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 15:53:00 -
[2]
So whats up with the new Misille physics?? They no longer follow Targets they will try and cut of your path.. Wich is death to small ships.
Misille boats where tough to break with small fast ships before exodus, now their even crazier
------------------------------------------------->
What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
|
kurg
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 16:01:00 -
[3]
ok Im not anticipating any of the whining raven pilots will cry NERF! at that change? 
even the paranoid has real enemies...
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kurg
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Posted - 2004.11.27 16:01:00 -
[4]
ok Im not anticipating any of the whining raven pilots will cry NERF! at that change?
even the paranoid has real enemies...
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Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.11.27 16:16:00 -
[5]
And i kept bloody wondering why i was smashed SO quickly yesterday,
!@#$#%^&
WTF is with cruise missiles? why the change?
why not announced?..
if it is unintended, please fix?
hell, i thought it was some weird lag yesterday.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 16:16:00 -
[6]
And i kept bloody wondering why i was smashed SO quickly yesterday,
!@#$#%^&
WTF is with cruise missiles? why the change?
why not announced?..
if it is unintended, please fix?
hell, i thought it was some weird lag yesterday.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Carniel
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Posted - 2004.11.27 16:19:00 -
[7]
It's like that with all missiles, not just cruise. Pirating cruisers in frigs just got a lot harder.
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Carniel
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Posted - 2004.11.27 16:19:00 -
[8]
It's like that with all missiles, not just cruise. Pirating cruisers in frigs just got a lot harder.
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ThorsHmr
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Posted - 2004.11.27 16:27:00 -
[9]
Actually, for anyone who knows even a small percent of how a missile actually tracks it's target, this is one of the best "fixes/changes/upgrades" that could have come along concerning missile-play.
Missiles do not "follow" a target, they "track" and try to determine, and fly to, an intersecting point in space to acheive its' goal....to hit the target.
So, for anybody not used the the proper way missiles should act.....sorry for the rude awakening 
"The biggest troublemaker you'll probably ever have to deal with watches
you shave his face in the mirror every morning." |
ThorsHmr
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 16:27:00 -
[10]
Actually, for anyone who knows even a small percent of how a missile actually tracks it's target, this is one of the best "fixes/changes/upgrades" that could have come along concerning missile-play.
Missiles do not "follow" a target, they "track" and try to determine, and fly to, an intersecting point in space to acheive its' goal....to hit the target.
So, for anybody not used the the proper way missiles should act.....sorry for the rude awakening
"The biggest troublemaker you'll probably ever have to deal with watches
you shave his face in the mirror every morning." |
Holi
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 16:29:00 -
[11]
Yepp, missile's were changed from chase-mode to intercept-mode it seems.
That, and the fact that defenders still bring you to a complete stop just hurts 
(Submitted bugreport on defenders just to make sure, altough that bug has been around a looooong time.)
I can't understand why they changed missile behaviour when they didn't even fix defenders.
And let's not talk about the lack of non-missile slot, non-energy using missile defense systems. I'm at the point that I would even accept a Micro Chaff Bomb that works as a SB with about twice the range but uses small projectile (or whatever) ammo instead of you cap
--
Holi
[ md5 checksum calculator ] |
Holi
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 16:29:00 -
[12]
Yepp, missile's were changed from chase-mode to intercept-mode it seems.
That, and the fact that defenders still bring you to a complete stop just hurts
(Submitted bugreport on defenders just to make sure, altough that bug has been around a looooong time.)
I can't understand why they changed missile behaviour when they didn't even fix defenders.
And let's not talk about the lack of non-missile slot, non-energy using missile defense systems. I'm at the point that I would even accept a Micro Chaff Bomb that works as a SB with about twice the range but uses small projectile (or whatever) ammo instead of you cap
--
Holi
[ md5 checksum calculator ] |
agrizla
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 16:35:00 -
[13]
Edited by: agrizla on 27/11/2004 16:38:29
It's sort of the way missiles should always have realistically worked to be honest. Of course if we're going to get realistic about this then it ought to be possible to jam and/or seduce missiles away from their target - ECM burst modules spring to mind as possibles for jamming (but they'd need tweaking). I agree it does suck for frigate pilots right now but then again missiles are WAY overpowered at the moment. I'm sure TomB will be along to nerf everything in sight into oblivion soon anyway
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agrizla
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Posted - 2004.11.27 16:35:00 -
[14]
Edited by: agrizla on 27/11/2004 16:38:29
It's sort of the way missiles should always have realistically worked to be honest. Of course if we're going to get realistic about this then it ought to be possible to jam and/or seduce missiles away from their target - ECM burst modules spring to mind as possibles for jamming (but they'd need tweaking). I agree it does suck for frigate pilots right now but then again missiles are WAY overpowered at the moment. I'm sure TomB will be along to nerf everything in sight into oblivion soon anyway
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Dark Big
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Posted - 2004.11.27 16:35:00 -
[15]
as a raven pilot i think this sucks. the way it was befor was a tad bit over powered but now you can kill frigs easly with a cruise i can under stand setting up rockets for such a task only becouse thay can only go so far. but a mwding frigs at 20 is just going to get stomped :\ this just means that a raven will not have to be setup for frig defence and wich will only make them more powerfull... if thay are going to do this thay need to make rockets intercept frigs not cruise. only becouse a cruise will kill a frig in one hit a rocket will not.. or leave it like it was where a raven would have to use large amounts of cpu and power grid to fit a nossi to defend agenst frigs:\
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Dark Big
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Posted - 2004.11.27 16:35:00 -
[16]
as a raven pilot i think this sucks. the way it was befor was a tad bit over powered but now you can kill frigs easly with a cruise i can under stand setting up rockets for such a task only becouse thay can only go so far. but a mwding frigs at 20 is just going to get stomped :\ this just means that a raven will not have to be setup for frig defence and wich will only make them more powerfull... if thay are going to do this thay need to make rockets intercept frigs not cruise. only becouse a cruise will kill a frig in one hit a rocket will not.. or leave it like it was where a raven would have to use large amounts of cpu and power grid to fit a nossi to defend agenst frigs:\
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Raven DeBlade
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Posted - 2004.11.27 16:41:00 -
[17]
Yes correct "proper" missiles track and intercep**** target... not the way they do in movies and follow around for a couple of minutes... =)
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
Raven DeBlade
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 16:41:00 -
[18]
Yes correct "proper" missiles track and intercep**** target... not the way they do in movies and follow around for a couple of minutes... =)
"To hunt pirates you need time and patience, because even monkeys fall from the trees"
"Any statements made above this line are my persona" |
Nervar
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 16:46:00 -
[19]
 Originally by: ThorsHmr
Actually, for anyone who knows even a small percent of how a missile actually tracks it's target, this is one of the best "fixes/changes/upgrades" that could have come along concerning missile-play.
Missiles do not "follow" a target, they "track" and try to determine, and fly to, an intersecting point in space to acheive its' goal....to hit the target.
So, for anybody not used the the proper way missiles should act.....sorry for the rude awakening
I agree that this change is welcome HOWEVER deploying it without the other changes to misilles(dmg versus sig radius) and doing it inn stealth mode is bad.
One cant fix half of the problem and leave the rest, it creates some very unbalanced sjit.
------------------------------------------------->
What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
|
Nervar
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 16:46:00 -
[20]
Originally by: ThorsHmr
Actually, for anyone who knows even a small percent of how a missile actually tracks it's target, this is one of the best "fixes/changes/upgrades" that could have come along concerning missile-play.
Missiles do not "follow" a target, they "track" and try to determine, and fly to, an intersecting point in space to acheive its' goal....to hit the target.
So, for anybody not used the the proper way missiles should act.....sorry for the rude awakening
I agree that this change is welcome HOWEVER deploying it without the other changes to misilles(dmg versus sig radius) and doing it inn stealth mode is bad.
One cant fix half of the problem and leave the rest, it creates some very unbalanced sjit.
------------------------------------------------->
What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
|
agrizla
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Posted - 2004.11.27 16:48:00 -
[21]
Why change TomB's habits - it's the way he always does it isn't it? 
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agrizla
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Posted - 2004.11.27 16:48:00 -
[22]
Why change TomB's habits - it's the way he always does it isn't it?
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Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.11.27 16:50:00 -
[23]
ffs, Whoever introduced this change, fly a frigate one a year, please.
this game gets worse by the second.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 16:50:00 -
[24]
ffs, Whoever introduced this change, fly a frigate one a year, please.
this game gets worse by the second.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Damajink
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Posted - 2004.11.27 16:56:00 -
[25]
Tracking change...
Production change....
*grabs crystal ball*
I see.....a NERF coming! 
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Damajink
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Posted - 2004.11.27 16:56:00 -
[26]
Tracking change...
Production change....
*grabs crystal ball*
I see.....a NERF coming!
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Nafri
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 17:12:00 -
[27]
Originally by: kurg
ok Im not anticipating any of the whining raven pilots will cry NERF! at that change?
im only complaining about raven tanking
Wanna fly with me?
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Nafri
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 17:12:00 -
[28]
Originally by: kurg
ok Im not anticipating any of the whining raven pilots will cry NERF! at that change?
im only complaining about raven tanking
Wanna fly with me?
|
Grim Vandal
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Posted - 2004.11.27 17:16:00 -
[29]
no wait missiles got cost reduced... one batch = 100 missiles now instead of 10
and on top of that my missiles will hit targets more easily  .
Sucks to be non caldari eh  .
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 17:16:00 -
[30]
no wait missiles got cost reduced... one batch = 100 missiles now instead of 10
and on top of that my missiles will hit targets more easily .
Sucks to be non caldari eh .
Greetings Grim |
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 17:17:00 -
[31]
"Sucks to be non caldari eh ."
Sucks to fly a frigate, no matter what race you are. :/
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j0sephine
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Posted - 2004.11.27 17:17:00 -
[32]
"Sucks to be non caldari eh ."
Sucks to fly a frigate, no matter what race you are. :/
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Carniel
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Posted - 2004.11.27 17:27:00 -
[33]
Originally by: j0sephine
"Sucks to be non caldari eh ."
Sucks to fly a frigate, no matter what race you are. :/
Heh, yeah. 'fraid I wont be ransoming any ships now, I aint gonna be opening any convos while I got heavy missiles ramming me. Just gank them before they gank me and then pick up the loot and ransom their pod instead. And I'm poor as a pirate already, sigh :P
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Carniel
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Posted - 2004.11.27 17:27:00 -
[34]
Originally by: j0sephine
"Sucks to be non caldari eh ."
Sucks to fly a frigate, no matter what race you are. :/
Heh, yeah. 'fraid I wont be ransoming any ships now, I aint gonna be opening any convos while I got heavy missiles ramming me. Just gank them before they gank me and then pick up the loot and ransom their pod instead. And I'm poor as a pirate already, sigh :P
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Vampire Blade
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Posted - 2004.11.27 17:27:00 -
[35]
NOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSS
bah, i thought i accidentally clicked around and hit stop by accident when my thrasher went pop yesterday. and here i was, thinking i was invinciblar in my dual 10mn ab thrasher B(
anyway.. gogo nerf, and gogo defenders!
----- ----- -----
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Vampire Blade
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Posted - 2004.11.27 17:27:00 -
[36]
NOOOOOOOOOEEEEEEEEEESSSSSSS
bah, i thought i accidentally clicked around and hit stop by accident when my thrasher went pop yesterday. and here i was, thinking i was invinciblar in my dual 10mn ab thrasher B(
anyway.. gogo nerf, and gogo defenders!
----- ----- -----
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Hobbsalong
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Posted - 2004.11.27 17:35:00 -
[37]
Being Minmatar was hard enough.... Now this
Bah, its obvious now. EVERYONE TRAIN CALDARI. It would be so nice to see that the only ships visible in the EVE universe would be Ravens, Scorps, Caracals and Kestrels.
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Hobbsalong
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Posted - 2004.11.27 17:35:00 -
[38]
Being Minmatar was hard enough.... Now this
Bah, its obvious now. EVERYONE TRAIN CALDARI. It would be so nice to see that the only ships visible in the EVE universe would be Ravens, Scorps, Caracals and Kestrels.
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DirtyHarry
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Posted - 2004.11.27 17:43:00 -
[39]
great change imo! but then again im a raven pilot
-Havo
-------------------
Sig: Mirus Crosius <3
DirtyHarry ~ Havocide - WoWing It Up, Not Givin A F**k |
DirtyHarry
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 17:43:00 -
[40]
great change imo! but then again im a raven pilot
-Havo
-------------------
Sig: Mirus Crosius <3
DirtyHarry ~ Havocide - WoWing It Up, Not Givin A F**k |
Hobbsalong
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 17:46:00 -
[41]
Yea its great (for me)... since I have an option to fly any BS.. not having trained any specific one. So I'll just train Caldari now. Its not a big deal for me.
People who have trained Amarr or Gallente exclusively... too bad. I don't like the change honestly.. but I have the option to adapt and not feel shortchanged since I'm new. For those who aren't... CCP doesnt really give a crap about that. Since minmatar have been crapped at the BS level for so long.
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Hobbsalong
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Posted - 2004.11.27 17:46:00 -
[42]
Yea its great (for me)... since I have an option to fly any BS.. not having trained any specific one. So I'll just train Caldari now. Its not a big deal for me.
People who have trained Amarr or Gallente exclusively... too bad. I don't like the change honestly.. but I have the option to adapt and not feel shortchanged since I'm new. For those who aren't... CCP doesnt really give a crap about that. Since minmatar have been crapped at the BS level for so long.
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Joshua Calvert
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Posted - 2004.11.27 18:24:00 -
[43]
I like this change even though I'm primarily a frigate pilot these days - makes missiles a bit more "real".
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 18:24:00 -
[44]
I like this change even though I'm primarily a frigate pilot these days - makes missiles a bit more "real".
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
GoGo Yubari
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 18:32:00 -
[45]
Excellent change yes. I found it out the hard way too, as it was suddenly more difficult to complete agent missions in my Claw (a welcome change in difficulty).
As for the damage vs sig radius .. I can't believe someone is still talking about that. It is the worst idea ever. If missiles need any more changes (I don't know why they would, though), they need to come up with a different solution.
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GoGo Yubari
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Posted - 2004.11.27 18:32:00 -
[46]
Excellent change yes. I found it out the hard way too, as it was suddenly more difficult to complete agent missions in my Claw (a welcome change in difficulty).
As for the damage vs sig radius .. I can't believe someone is still talking about that. It is the worst idea ever. If missiles need any more changes (I don't know why they would, though), they need to come up with a different solution.
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Hobbsalong
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Posted - 2004.11.27 18:34:00 -
[47]
Well a bit more real... How about adding the following
Missiles DONT always do maximum dmg. Infact, most missiles do proximity damage.
Missiles also do not track as well, and should be ecm(able). Its kinda UNREALISTIC that a missile always hits when in range, and does its MOST dmg (considering resistances).
Rather silly to be honest. Dont introduce such "realism" piece meal.. damnit Do it then do it well.
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Hobbsalong
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Posted - 2004.11.27 18:34:00 -
[48]
Well a bit more real... How about adding the following
Missiles DONT always do maximum dmg. Infact, most missiles do proximity damage.
Missiles also do not track as well, and should be ecm(able). Its kinda UNREALISTIC that a missile always hits when in range, and does its MOST dmg (considering resistances).
Rather silly to be honest. Dont introduce such "realism" piece meal.. damnit Do it then do it well.
|
Frank Horrigan
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 18:53:00 -
[49]
lol.. they sotra did that on test server.. i shot torpedos at the interceptors coming at me from 60km away, but the torps went 180 right behind my ship for about 15km till the frigs slowed down, then they went forward and chased them.
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Bhaal
What has turned out better than expected?
Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This i |
Frank Horrigan
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 18:53:00 -
[50]
lol.. they sotra did that on test server.. i shot torpedos at the interceptors coming at me from 60km away, but the torps went 180 right behind my ship for about 15km till the frigs slowed down, then they went forward and chased them.
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Bhaal
What has turned out better than expected?
Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This i |
Lifewire
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 18:53:00 -
[51]
All tackler pilots will have a hard time next weeks. I don¦t care if the change is ok or not. What is absolutly unfair is CCP changing so much important things without any note. Stealth change. It¦s really ugly for people that dont notice it in time. But DEV-blogs about comets and POS over and over. The things that are really important: not a note.
|
Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.11.27 18:53:00 -
[52]
All tackler pilots will have a hard time next weeks. I don¦t care if the change is ok or not. What is absolutly unfair is CCP changing so much important things without any note. Stealth change. It¦s really ugly for people that dont notice it in time. But DEV-blogs about comets and POS over and over. The things that are really important: not a note.
|
Hobbsalong
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Posted - 2004.11.27 18:55:00 -
[53]
I agree completely wire
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Hobbsalong
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Posted - 2004.11.27 18:55:00 -
[54]
I agree completely wire
|
Nervar
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Posted - 2004.11.27 18:56:00 -
[55]
Edited by: Nervar on 27/11/2004 19:00:55
Originally by: GoGo Yubari
As for the damage vs sig radius .. I can't believe someone is still talking about that. It is the worst idea ever. If missiles need any more changes (I don't know why they would, though), they need to come up with a different solution.
Why?? well.... That subject is about balancing BS's do you see large turrets hit frigs at 15km?? Its a one inn a million shot.
This is also about making small ships liable to use inn combat, cruisers are cannon fodder unless their fit for outrunning cruise misilles. And if they do fit for speed they cant perform the role that their obviously inntended for.
And its about people complaining about misilles taking forever to reach a target inn combat( fleet/or general)
Make them faster and change their physics they and will pwn smaller ships. So introducing that before introducing the dmg versus sig radius is plain stupid.
One would think thats pretty obvious
------------------------------------------------->
What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
|
Nervar
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 18:56:00 -
[56]
Edited by: Nervar on 27/11/2004 19:00:55
Originally by: GoGo Yubari
As for the damage vs sig radius .. I can't believe someone is still talking about that. It is the worst idea ever. If missiles need any more changes (I don't know why they would, though), they need to come up with a different solution.
Why?? well.... That subject is about balancing BS's do you see large turrets hit frigs at 15km?? Its a one inn a million shot.
This is also about making small ships liable to use inn combat, cruisers are cannon fodder unless their fit for outrunning cruise misilles. And if they do fit for speed they cant perform the role that their obviously inntended for.
And its about people complaining about misilles taking forever to reach a target inn combat( fleet/or general)
Make them faster and change their physics they and will pwn smaller ships. So introducing that before introducing the dmg versus sig radius is plain stupid.
One would think thats pretty obvious
------------------------------------------------->
What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
|
Frank Horrigan
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 18:58:00 -
[57]
this is actuily nice i guess... the age of the micro warp drive is over, now i can fit a cap recharger and add a taycheon or another large armor rep.
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Bhaal
What has turned out better than expected?
Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This i |
Frank Horrigan
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 18:58:00 -
[58]
this is actuily nice i guess... the age of the micro warp drive is over, now i can fit a cap recharger and add a taycheon or another large armor rep.
Originally by: Oveur
Originally by: Bhaal
What has turned out better than expected?
Everything. Remember, we're from Iceland.
(\_/)
(O.o)
(> <) This i |
OffBeaT
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 19:02:00 -
[59]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 27/11/2004 19:07:10
the apoc's and arma's are still great ships = too the raven. i dont see what the big deal is realy.
heh.. i thought it was lag why the missiles where doing that.
|
OffBeaT
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Posted - 2004.11.27 19:02:00 -
[60]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 27/11/2004 19:07:10
the apoc's and arma's are still great ships = too the raven. i dont see what the big deal is realy.
heh.. i thought it was lag why the missiles where doing that.
|
Cleopatera
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Posted - 2004.11.27 19:08:00 -
[61]
/me strokes her raven...
tell ya what guys, instead of ****ing and moaning about it, get a corp mate to help you out and work out how to avoid missiles ??
This is a welcome change, not just because I fly a raven. I fly frigates too, it will make a tacklers job a bit more dangerous, not just click orbit 5km, engage mwd and watch poor ships missiles chase until they burn out (well for interceptors anyway).
So in summary, think about a new way to avoid missiles, adapt, evolve etc.... just use your brain and not your mouth/fingers 
regard, Cleo
-------------------------------------------
Voted "Best" |
Cleopatera
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 19:08:00 -
[62]
/me strokes her raven...
tell ya what guys, instead of ****ing and moaning about it, get a corp mate to help you out and work out how to avoid missiles ??
This is a welcome change, not just because I fly a raven. I fly frigates too, it will make a tacklers job a bit more dangerous, not just click orbit 5km, engage mwd and watch poor ships missiles chase until they burn out (well for interceptors anyway).
So in summary, think about a new way to avoid missiles, adapt, evolve etc.... just use your brain and not your mouth/fingers
regard, Cleo
-------------------------------------------
Voted "Best" |
Hobbsalong
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 19:13:00 -
[63]
Balls to adapting..
The only thing I'm changing is that I'm training SOLELY Caldari Now till I get all missiles skills maxed.
Thats how you adapt. When someone makes one race stronger than the other.. train for that. Simple.. straightforward.
|
Hobbsalong
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Posted - 2004.11.27 19:13:00 -
[64]
Balls to adapting..
The only thing I'm changing is that I'm training SOLELY Caldari Now till I get all missiles skills maxed.
Thats how you adapt. When someone makes one race stronger than the other.. train for that. Simple.. straightforward.
|
theRaptor
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 19:33:00 -
[65]
OMG either the Devs love Caldari to death or a big big nerf is coming our way. Does anyone else trust the Devs when they make stuff better without people whining? I smell realistic missile physics coming where missiles have agility and the chance to miss targets.
--------------------------------------------------
|
theRaptor
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 19:33:00 -
[66]
OMG either the Devs love Caldari to death or a big big nerf is coming our way. Does anyone else trust the Devs when they make stuff better without people whining? I smell realistic missile physics coming where missiles have agility and the chance to miss targets.
--------------------------------------------------
|
Pandora Panda
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 19:46:00 -
[67]
Originally by: Cleopatera
I fly frigates too, it will make a tacklers job a bit more dangerous, not just click orbit 5km, engage mwd and watch poor ships missiles chase until they burn out (well for interceptors anyway).
Yeah, because tacklers were surviving way too well before, right? There were no nosferatu, there were no webbers, no smartbombs. After a fleet battle you'd see 15 vigils from each side, right?
Or wait, mabye tackler frigates already had a lifespan measured in seconds, and the only thing this change does is make missile using ships not have to fit any of the anti-frig modules anymore.
I do hope that this is the prelude to a badly needed missile balance, but having it come in 2 months is a bit of a long wait.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Pandora Panda
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 19:46:00 -
[68]
Originally by: Cleopatera
I fly frigates too, it will make a tacklers job a bit more dangerous, not just click orbit 5km, engage mwd and watch poor ships missiles chase until they burn out (well for interceptors anyway).
Yeah, because tacklers were surviving way too well before, right? There were no nosferatu, there were no webbers, no smartbombs. After a fleet battle you'd see 15 vigils from each side, right?
Or wait, mabye tackler frigates already had a lifespan measured in seconds, and the only thing this change does is make missile using ships not have to fit any of the anti-frig modules anymore.
I do hope that this is the prelude to a badly needed missile balance, but having it come in 2 months is a bit of a long wait.
--------------------------------------------
CONCORD: Kneecapping Pilots for Misdemeanors Since 2003 |
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 21:40:00 -
[69]
now, allwe need is Oversized AB and dual AB nerf and thesituation whuld be perfektly cathastrophik
Varayty of setups in the game whuld be limited to:
tanking
EW
right now its:
Tankking
EW
Speed
-------------------------------------------
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 21:40:00 -
[70]
now, allwe need is Oversized AB and dual AB nerf and thesituation whuld be perfektly cathastrophik
Varayty of setups in the game whuld be limited to:
tanking
EW
right now its:
Tankking
EW
Speed
-------------------------------------------
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 21:41:00 -
[71]
"I like this change even though I'm primarily a frigate pilot these days - makes missiles a bit more "real"."
Wouldn't mind it really if there was some sort of ship agility vs missile agility check on impact added as well, to balance it out. (could result in the inertia stabilizers actually becoming useful, but that's another story...)
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 21:41:00 -
[72]
"I like this change even though I'm primarily a frigate pilot these days - makes missiles a bit more "real"."
Wouldn't mind it really if there was some sort of ship agility vs missile agility check on impact added as well, to balance it out. (could result in the inertia stabilizers actually becoming useful, but that's another story...)
|
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 21:43:00 -
[73]
Originally by: j0sephine
"I like this change even though I'm primarily a frigate pilot these days - makes missiles a bit more "real"."
Wouldn't mind it really if there was some sort of ship agility vs missile agility check on impact added as well, to balance it out. (could result in the inertia stabilizers actually becoming useful, but that's another story...)
how'd you go in that cormorant then?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
Joshua Calvert
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 21:43:00 -
[74]
Originally by: j0sephine
"I like this change even though I'm primarily a frigate pilot these days - makes missiles a bit more "real"."
Wouldn't mind it really if there was some sort of ship agility vs missile agility check on impact added as well, to balance it out. (could result in the inertia stabilizers actually becoming useful, but that's another story...)
how'd you go in that cormorant then?
LEEEEERRRRRRRRRRROOOOOOOOOYYYYYYYYYYYYYYY! |
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 21:50:00 -
[75]
"how'd you go in that cormorant then?"
Just like i expected, but then in all fairness i did tackle it in the most stupid way possible ;s (suspect will be few more days and number of ships before i get a grip on what the new UI is trying to tell me)
|
j0sephine
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 21:50:00 -
[76]
"how'd you go in that cormorant then?"
Just like i expected, but then in all fairness i did tackle it in the most stupid way possible ;s (suspect will be few more days and number of ships before i get a grip on what the new UI is trying to tell me)
|
Mikelangelo
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 22:42:00 -
[77]
Heh, this is funny.
Nobody seems to be whining about this too much, this thread only has 2 pages right now.
3 weeks from now, when they cut missile damage by a factor of FOUR, there will be a HUGE 12-17 page long thread about how its not fair...etc...etc.
Come on guys, don't you see what is happening?
CCP is already in the process of reworking missiles.
You get ONE bonus, missiles intercept their target now, the next logical step is an incoming damage nerf. The writing is on the wall.
|
Mikelangelo
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 22:42:00 -
[78]
Heh, this is funny.
Nobody seems to be whining about this too much, this thread only has 2 pages right now.
3 weeks from now, when they cut missile damage by a factor of FOUR, there will be a HUGE 12-17 page long thread about how its not fair...etc...etc.
Come on guys, don't you see what is happening?
CCP is already in the process of reworking missiles.
You get ONE bonus, missiles intercept their target now, the next logical step is an incoming damage nerf. The writing is on the wall.
|
Scorpyn
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 22:48:00 -
[79]
Edited by: Scorpyn on 27/11/2004 22:51:11
Originally by: Mikelangelo
You get ONE bonus, missiles intercept their target now, the next logical step is an incoming damage nerf. The writing is on the wall.
They shouldn't make the changes one at a time though... and definitely not without notifying ppl.
|
Scorpyn
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 22:48:00 -
[80]
Edited by: Scorpyn on 27/11/2004 22:51:11
Originally by: Mikelangelo
You get ONE bonus, missiles intercept their target now, the next logical step is an incoming damage nerf. The writing is on the wall.
They shouldn't make the changes one at a time though... and definitely not without notifying ppl.
|
OffBeaT
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 23:00:00 -
[81]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 27/11/2004 23:11:15
Edited by: OffBeaT on 27/11/2004 23:06:06
Originally by: Mikelangelo
Heh, this is funny.
Nobody seems to be whining about this too much, this thread only has 2 pages right now.
3 weeks from now, when they cut missile damage by a factor of FOUR, there will be a HUGE 12-17 page long thread about how its not fair...etc...etc.
Come on guys, don't you see what is happening?
CCP is already in the process of reworking missiles.
You get ONE bonus, missiles intercept their target now, the next logical step is an incoming damage nerf. The writing is on the wall.
why would they do that?
most of my torpedo hits on rats are under 300 in damage. far cry from what the skill says they should be per damage. welp, i only fly caldari ships, thats the way i like too play the game. i play kinda like a rp'er. after all that skill work iv done for thouse ships and too see my moa and carcal turn too usless in the game. now they are comming after my raven. no talk of nerfing the apoc's or armas.. in my opion thay are the stronger ship. welp.. im runing out of good caldari ships and cant get into a elite cruiser for at lest 3 months or so of skill work. if my raven cant punch a hole in anything anymore like my moa. time too move on i guess. i only got a month left anyway. why keep going. i dont wona go from ship type too ship type like most of you guys. i think that sucks. evryone just gose from ship too ship with evry new nerf. we all end up flying the same crap with the same setups for the most part.boring
not too say how the hell am i going too hold all these missiles in my cargo bay if they dont do as much damage. i wont beable too carry enough and collect my rat goods,
|
OffBeaT
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 23:00:00 -
[82]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 27/11/2004 23:11:15
Edited by: OffBeaT on 27/11/2004 23:06:06
Originally by: Mikelangelo
Heh, this is funny.
Nobody seems to be whining about this too much, this thread only has 2 pages right now.
3 weeks from now, when they cut missile damage by a factor of FOUR, there will be a HUGE 12-17 page long thread about how its not fair...etc...etc.
Come on guys, don't you see what is happening?
CCP is already in the process of reworking missiles.
You get ONE bonus, missiles intercept their target now, the next logical step is an incoming damage nerf. The writing is on the wall.
why would they do that?
most of my torpedo hits on rats are under 300 in damage. far cry from what the skill says they should be per damage. welp, i only fly caldari ships, thats the way i like too play the game. i play kinda like a rp'er. after all that skill work iv done for thouse ships and too see my moa and carcal turn too usless in the game. now they are comming after my raven. no talk of nerfing the apoc's or armas.. in my opion thay are the stronger ship. welp.. im runing out of good caldari ships and cant get into a elite cruiser for at lest 3 months or so of skill work. if my raven cant punch a hole in anything anymore like my moa. time too move on i guess. i only got a month left anyway. why keep going. i dont wona go from ship type too ship type like most of you guys. i think that sucks. evryone just gose from ship too ship with evry new nerf. we all end up flying the same crap with the same setups for the most part.boring
not too say how the hell am i going too hold all these missiles in my cargo bay if they dont do as much damage. i wont beable too carry enough and collect my rat goods,
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 23:06:00 -
[83]
A dev response would be greatly appreaciated.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 23:06:00 -
[84]
A dev response would be greatly appreaciated.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
TheFatman
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 23:25:00 -
[85]
Originally by: Pandora Panda
Originally by: Cleopatera
I fly frigates too, it will make a tacklers job a bit more dangerous, not just click orbit 5km, engage mwd and watch poor ships missiles chase until they burn out (well for interceptors anyway).
Yeah, because tacklers were surviving way too well before, right? There were no nosferatu, there were no webbers, no smartbombs. After a fleet battle you'd see 15 vigils from each side, right?
Or wait, mabye tackler frigates already had a lifespan measured in seconds, and the only thing this change does is make missile using ships not have to fit any of the anti-frig modules anymore.
I do hope that this is the prelude to a badly needed missile balance, but having it come in 2 months is a bit of a long wait.
I guess the devs want to move back to the age of Battleship only fleets, just more missile based battleships involved in the fleet, sounds like a good deal for me, feel kind of sorry for all the noob pvpers that wanted to get invloved by being a tackler
|
TheFatman
|
Posted - 2004.11.27 23:25:00 -
[86]
Originally by: Pandora Panda
Originally by: Cleopatera
I fly frigates too, it will make a tacklers job a bit more dangerous, not just click orbit 5km, engage mwd and watch poor ships missiles chase until they burn out (well for interceptors anyway).
Yeah, because tacklers were surviving way too well before, right? There were no nosferatu, there were no webbers, no smartbombs. After a fleet battle you'd see 15 vigils from each side, right?
Or wait, mabye tackler frigates already had a lifespan measured in seconds, and the only thing this change does is make missile using ships not have to fit any of the anti-frig modules anymore.
I do hope that this is the prelude to a badly needed missile balance, but having it come in 2 months is a bit of a long wait.
I guess the devs want to move back to the age of Battleship only fleets, just more missile based battleships involved in the fleet, sounds like a good deal for me, feel kind of sorry for all the noob pvpers that wanted to get invloved by being a tackler
|
Harry MacDougal
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 00:13:00 -
[87]
Originally by: OffBeaT
Edited by: OffBeaT on 27/11/2004 23:11:15
Edited by: OffBeaT on 27/11/2004 23:06:06
Originally by: Mikelangelo
Heh, this is funny.
Nobody seems to be whining about this too much, this thread only has 2 pages right now.
3 weeks from now, when they cut missile damage by a factor of FOUR, there will be a HUGE 12-17 page long thread about how its not fair...etc...etc.
Come on guys, don't you see what is happening?
CCP is already in the process of reworking missiles.
You get ONE bonus, missiles intercept their target now, the next logical step is an incoming damage nerf. The writing is on the wall.
why would they do that?
most of my torpedo hits on rats are under 300 in damage. far cry from what the skill says they should be per damage. welp, i only fly caldari ships, thats the way i like too play the game. i play kinda like a rp'er. after all that skill work iv done for thouse ships and too see my moa and carcal turn too usless in the game. now they are comming after my raven. no talk of nerfing the apoc's or armas.. in my opion thay are the stronger ship. welp.. im runing out of good caldari ships and cant get into a elite cruiser for at lest 3 months or so of skill work. if my raven cant punch a hole in anything anymore like my moa. time too move on i guess. i only got a month left anyway. why keep going. i dont wona go from ship type too ship type like most of you guys. i think that sucks. evryone just gose from ship too ship with evry new nerf. we all end up flying the same crap with the same setups for the most part.boring
not too say how the hell am i going too hold all these missiles in my cargo bay if they dont do as much damage. i wont beable too carry enough and collect my rat goods,
Welcome to the world of the matari.
--------------
Your 720mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Guristas Spy, wrecking for 411.2 damage. |
Harry MacDougal
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 00:13:00 -
[88]
Originally by: OffBeaT
Edited by: OffBeaT on 27/11/2004 23:11:15
Edited by: OffBeaT on 27/11/2004 23:06:06
Originally by: Mikelangelo
Heh, this is funny.
Nobody seems to be whining about this too much, this thread only has 2 pages right now.
3 weeks from now, when they cut missile damage by a factor of FOUR, there will be a HUGE 12-17 page long thread about how its not fair...etc...etc.
Come on guys, don't you see what is happening?
CCP is already in the process of reworking missiles.
You get ONE bonus, missiles intercept their target now, the next logical step is an incoming damage nerf. The writing is on the wall.
why would they do that?
most of my torpedo hits on rats are under 300 in damage. far cry from what the skill says they should be per damage. welp, i only fly caldari ships, thats the way i like too play the game. i play kinda like a rp'er. after all that skill work iv done for thouse ships and too see my moa and carcal turn too usless in the game. now they are comming after my raven. no talk of nerfing the apoc's or armas.. in my opion thay are the stronger ship. welp.. im runing out of good caldari ships and cant get into a elite cruiser for at lest 3 months or so of skill work. if my raven cant punch a hole in anything anymore like my moa. time too move on i guess. i only got a month left anyway. why keep going. i dont wona go from ship type too ship type like most of you guys. i think that sucks. evryone just gose from ship too ship with evry new nerf. we all end up flying the same crap with the same setups for the most part.boring
not too say how the hell am i going too hold all these missiles in my cargo bay if they dont do as much damage. i wont beable too carry enough and collect my rat goods,
Welcome to the world of the matari.
--------------
Your 720mm Howitzer Artillery I perfectly strikes Guristas Spy, wrecking for 411.2 damage. |
Excavation Svcs
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 00:48:00 -
[89]
Originally by: Grim Vandal
Sucks to be non caldari eh .
No it doesnt. I just trained for a Raven,too. Takes only 2 or 3 weeks, so no big deal.
|
Excavation Svcs
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 00:48:00 -
[90]
Originally by: Grim Vandal
Sucks to be non caldari eh .
No it doesnt. I just trained for a Raven,too. Takes only 2 or 3 weeks, so no big deal.
|
Mikelangelo
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 01:59:00 -
[91]
Don't get me wrong OffbeaT,
I am not advocating a missile nerf. I like missiles just fine, I like to fly a Tempest (still do), and I can fly a Raven as well.
I'd like to see a head's up from the devs as well. I hate this pattern of a stealth changes, with no information, pushed along other changes with a patch.
So far, this pattern, in my opinion, has repeated itself enough times to be irritating.
|
Mikelangelo
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 01:59:00 -
[92]
Don't get me wrong OffbeaT,
I am not advocating a missile nerf. I like missiles just fine, I like to fly a Tempest (still do), and I can fly a Raven as well.
I'd like to see a head's up from the devs as well. I hate this pattern of a stealth changes, with no information, pushed along other changes with a patch.
So far, this pattern, in my opinion, has repeated itself enough times to be irritating.
|
Krulla
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 02:15:00 -
[93]
What the heck?!!! You mean missiles are, really, truly, 100% instadeath to frigs, even if you stay out of web range?
Sigh. The crow is now the king of the inties. And I'm retiring my crusader and buying a Raven.
|
Krulla
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 02:15:00 -
[94]
What the heck?!!! You mean missiles are, really, truly, 100% instadeath to frigs, even if you stay out of web range?
Sigh. The crow is now the king of the inties. And I'm retiring my crusader and buying a Raven.
|
OffBeaT
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 02:37:00 -
[95]
Originally by: Excavation Svcs
Originally by: Grim Vandal
Sucks to be non caldari eh .
No it doesnt. I just trained for a Raven,too. Takes only 2 or 3 weeks, so no big deal.
no big deal, i dont know about you hoping from whatever ship to whatever ship as you see fit. i dont play the game that way. iv been working these skills for caldari ships since i started this game with this guy. i dont got maga acounts too fall back on. i just got one. every skill i planed out months and months ago, is for the propose of working my ships,namly caldari ships. you have too work evry skill for these ships too the max too get them too be a top one on one ship, witch is the way i like too play the game. i dont like gank wars or fleet wars or out numbering someone 20 to 1. that ant a pvper in my opinon. thats just a ganker.
the way i see it if a player cant fight on his own then he ant working his skills proper.
so evry nerf that hits me is a big deal too my character. its almost as if they wont too kill the one on one pvpers out there so we all have too be gankers or join corps or allances and do fleet battles. they are killing all the good one on one ships in faver of fleet battles witch i dont wont know part of. i am a vendetta fighter. i pick my fights and dont fight for other peoples causes other then my own. Can we keep some ships that are for players like me. the caldari BC is a good one on one ship so can we keep the raven and the scorp the same.
some people just dont know how too be a individual anymore in life. they all gota be groupies now.
|
OffBeaT
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 02:37:00 -
[96]
Originally by: Excavation Svcs
Originally by: Grim Vandal
Sucks to be non caldari eh .
No it doesnt. I just trained for a Raven,too. Takes only 2 or 3 weeks, so no big deal.
no big deal, i dont know about you hoping from whatever ship to whatever ship as you see fit. i dont play the game that way. iv been working these skills for caldari ships since i started this game with this guy. i dont got maga acounts too fall back on. i just got one. every skill i planed out months and months ago, is for the propose of working my ships,namly caldari ships. you have too work evry skill for these ships too the max too get them too be a top one on one ship, witch is the way i like too play the game. i dont like gank wars or fleet wars or out numbering someone 20 to 1. that ant a pvper in my opinon. thats just a ganker.
the way i see it if a player cant fight on his own then he ant working his skills proper.
so evry nerf that hits me is a big deal too my character. its almost as if they wont too kill the one on one pvpers out there so we all have too be gankers or join corps or allances and do fleet battles. they are killing all the good one on one ships in faver of fleet battles witch i dont wont know part of. i am a vendetta fighter. i pick my fights and dont fight for other peoples causes other then my own. Can we keep some ships that are for players like me. the caldari BC is a good one on one ship so can we keep the raven and the scorp the same.
some people just dont know how too be a individual anymore in life. they all gota be groupies now.
|
kurg
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 03:35:00 -
[97]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
I like this change even though I'm primarily a frigate pilot these days - makes missiles a bit more "real".
more 'patriot' missilie like, for sure...
but basically thise is a humongous base frigate nerf, noobs will have no place in large pvp, crusie missiles will eat them before...
Also this means missile boats get a major advantage on gun boats... whine whine whine
even the paranoid has real enemies...
|
kurg
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 03:35:00 -
[98]
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
I like this change even though I'm primarily a frigate pilot these days - makes missiles a bit more "real".
more 'patriot' missilie like, for sure...
but basically thise is a humongous base frigate nerf, noobs will have no place in large pvp, crusie missiles will eat them before...
Also this means missile boats get a major advantage on gun boats... whine whine whine
even the paranoid has real enemies...
|
Krulla
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 04:51:00 -
[99]
Originally by: kurg
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
I like this change even though I'm primarily a frigate pilot these days - makes missiles a bit more "real".
more 'patriot' missilie like, for sure...
but basically thise is a humongous base frigate nerf, noobs will have no place in large pvp, crusie missiles will eat them before...
Also this means missile boats get a major advantage on gun boats... whine whine whine
Ahem. Not just noobs use frigates. I've got enough cash and skills to get a BS. I just dont. I prefer frigates. That playstyle is now close to ruined.
|
Krulla
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 04:51:00 -
[100]
Originally by: kurg
Originally by: Joshua Calvert
I like this change even though I'm primarily a frigate pilot these days - makes missiles a bit more "real".
more 'patriot' missilie like, for sure...
but basically thise is a humongous base frigate nerf, noobs will have no place in large pvp, crusie missiles will eat them before...
Also this means missile boats get a major advantage on gun boats... whine whine whine
Ahem. Not just noobs use frigates. I've got enough cash and skills to get a BS. I just dont. I prefer frigates. That playstyle is now close to ruined.
|
OffBeaT
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 06:33:00 -
[101]
umm, have any of you guys seen the new torps on the market soon too come?
i mean the ones that do 1800 damage,
and are not t2 torps?
NerF! i dont think they are gona nerf?
what are these new torps all about and what ship can handle a hit from them?
|
OffBeaT
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 06:33:00 -
[102]
umm, have any of you guys seen the new torps on the market soon too come?
i mean the ones that do 1800 damage,
and are not t2 torps?
NerF! i dont think they are gona nerf?
what are these new torps all about and what ship can handle a hit from them?
|
TheFatman
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 06:41:00 -
[103]
Originally by: OffBeaT
umm, have any of you guys seen the new torps on the market soon too come?
i mean the ones that do 1800 damage,
and are not t2 torps?
NerF! i dont think they are gona nerf?
what are these new torps all about and what ship can handle a hit from them?
Too attack pos? how fast do they go?
|
TheFatman
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 06:41:00 -
[104]
Originally by: OffBeaT
umm, have any of you guys seen the new torps on the market soon too come?
i mean the ones that do 1800 damage,
and are not t2 torps?
NerF! i dont think they are gona nerf?
what are these new torps all about and what ship can handle a hit from them?
Too attack pos? how fast do they go?
|
Shamis Orzoz
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 07:07:00 -
[105]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 28/11/2004 07:10:06
This change would be cool if it only applied to cruis missles since cruiser should be more agile than torps.
|
Shamis Orzoz
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 07:07:00 -
[106]
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 28/11/2004 07:10:06
This change would be cool if it only applied to cruis missles since cruiser should be more agile than torps.
|
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 08:02:00 -
[107]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 28/11/2004 07:10:06
This change would be cool if it only applied to cruis missles since cruiser should be more agile than torps.
ya would be awesome for my siege launchers to be even more effective vs frigs ...
btw I got caldari BS lv 5, torps lv 5, cruise lv 5... so I really cant complain...
Greetings Grim |
Grim Vandal
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 08:02:00 -
[108]
Originally by: Shamis Orzoz
Edited by: Shamis Orzoz on 28/11/2004 07:10:06
This change would be cool if it only applied to cruis missles since cruiser should be more agile than torps.
ya would be awesome for my siege launchers to be even more effective vs frigs ...
btw I got caldari BS lv 5, torps lv 5, cruise lv 5... so I really cant complain...
Greetings Grim |
Dukath
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 08:49:00 -
[109]
I think intercepting missiles is the way to go though
BUT
missiles should have a MINIMUM speed. That way you could balance it out so that cruise missiles can't make shorter turns than frigates and you might actually be able to dodge a missile if you start turning on the correct moment.
This would mean that long range missiles, which the cruise missile definitely is won't be a sure kill against frigates orbiting at 15km from the target.
|
Dukath
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 08:49:00 -
[110]
I think intercepting missiles is the way to go though
BUT
missiles should have a MINIMUM speed. That way you could balance it out so that cruise missiles can't make shorter turns than frigates and you might actually be able to dodge a missile if you start turning on the correct moment.
This would mean that long range missiles, which the cruise missile definitely is won't be a sure kill against frigates orbiting at 15km from the target.
|
Helmut 314
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 09:11:00 -
[111]
So, Build requirements for missiles cut by a factor 10, Improved missile tracking.
Thats a lot of change in Caldari's favour. Very unbalancing to the game. I sure do hope that the next portion of changes comes quickly. Proximity damage, greater missile speed differentials. Anti-missile ECM, CIWS turrets, reworking defenders so they can intercept one target each. Now were talking balance.
___________________________________
Trying is the first step of failure
- Homer J Simpson |
Helmut 314
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 09:11:00 -
[112]
So, Build requirements for missiles cut by a factor 10, Improved missile tracking.
Thats a lot of change in Caldari's favour. Very unbalancing to the game. I sure do hope that the next portion of changes comes quickly. Proximity damage, greater missile speed differentials. Anti-missile ECM, CIWS turrets, reworking defenders so they can intercept one target each. Now were talking balance.
___________________________________
Trying is the first step of failure
- Homer J Simpson |
slip66
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 09:14:00 -
[113]
Originally by: ThorsHmr
Actually, for anyone who knows even a small percent of how a missile actually tracks it's target, this is one of the best "fixes/changes/upgrades" that could have come along concerning missile-play.
Missiles do not "follow" a target, they "track" and try to determine, and fly to, an intersecting point in space to acheive its' goal....to hit the target.
So, for anybody not used the the proper way missiles should act.....sorry for the rude awakening
they also DONT use cruise missiles for planes nor do they have 100% to hit and damage.
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slip66
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 09:14:00 -
[114]
Originally by: ThorsHmr
Actually, for anyone who knows even a small percent of how a missile actually tracks it's target, this is one of the best "fixes/changes/upgrades" that could have come along concerning missile-play.
Missiles do not "follow" a target, they "track" and try to determine, and fly to, an intersecting point in space to acheive its' goal....to hit the target.
So, for anybody not used the the proper way missiles should act.....sorry for the rude awakening
they also DONT use cruise missiles for planes nor do they have 100% to hit and damage.
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Holi
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 09:30:00 -
[115]
Well... at least it was in the patch notes (I only checked now  )
"Changes to missile visual behavior have been made and should now explode closer to target."
I'm only wondering if it's only a visual change, then I'm only visually being blown to pieces and in reality my ship is fully intact?
Strange even CONCORD mailed me about my ship losses, maybe both me and them need eyeglasses
--
Holi
[ md5 checksum calculator ] |
Holi
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 09:30:00 -
[116]
Well... at least it was in the patch notes (I only checked now )
"Changes to missile visual behavior have been made and should now explode closer to target."
I'm only wondering if it's only a visual change, then I'm only visually being blown to pieces and in reality my ship is fully intact?
Strange even CONCORD mailed me about my ship losses, maybe both me and them need eyeglasses
--
Holi
[ md5 checksum calculator ] |
Braaage
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 09:32:00 -
[117]
They stealth changed another thing as well, the manufacturing time of the Battlecruisers was upped from 2 hours 40 mins to 3 hours 20 mins. I know it's not a lot but when you have no idea and you tell a customer it will be finished in 2 hrs 40 and then have to wangle your way to 3 hours 20 it is.
___________________________________________
http://www.eve-tutor.com
Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online |
Braaage
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 09:32:00 -
[118]
They stealth changed another thing as well, the manufacturing time of the Battlecruisers was upped from 2 hours 40 mins to 3 hours 20 mins. I know it's not a lot but when you have no idea and you tell a customer it will be finished in 2 hrs 40 and then have to wangle your way to 3 hours 20 it is.
___________________________________________
http://www.eve-tutor.com
Picture based tutorial site for EVE-Online |
Tisti
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 09:57:00 -
[119]
This missile change is bulls---. You can start mwding @ someone then quickly turn back and the missile will be even further then it already is..
This change is fubar.. Not effecting you in a positive way exept the enemy is not that.. emm... smart.
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Tisti
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 09:57:00 -
[120]
This missile change is bulls---. You can start mwding @ someone then quickly turn back and the missile will be even further then it already is..
This change is fubar.. Not effecting you in a positive way exept the enemy is not that.. emm... smart.
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OffBeaT
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 10:04:00 -
[121]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 28/11/2004 10:10:38
it seems too me the problem with people is that a cruies missile should not beable too hit a small target moving. i think you are right they in real life do not go after planes so they should not hit a frig well. i do think however that i should beable too load light missiles in my siege too fire on frigs as a defance against them if needed. i also think they should come out with a new type of chaff counter weapon agaist missiles instead of ecm jamming them. fire the chaff of like foil and it can mess up the gidance system of mabe more then one missile at a time.
lets say a 3 to 5 sec burst in the space of a range of 10km
but you can only fire these evry 10 seconds or so.
|
OffBeaT
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 10:04:00 -
[122]
Edited by: OffBeaT on 28/11/2004 10:10:38
it seems too me the problem with people is that a cruies missile should not beable too hit a small target moving. i think you are right they in real life do not go after planes so they should not hit a frig well. i do think however that i should beable too load light missiles in my siege too fire on frigs as a defance against them if needed. i also think they should come out with a new type of chaff counter weapon agaist missiles instead of ecm jamming them. fire the chaff of like foil and it can mess up the gidance system of mabe more then one missile at a time.
lets say a 3 to 5 sec burst in the space of a range of 10km
but you can only fire these evry 10 seconds or so.
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Tisti
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 10:04:00 -
[123]
Originally by: Helmut 314
TI sure do hope that the next portion of changes comes quickly. Proximity damage, greater missile speed differentials. Anti-missile ECM, CIWS turrets, reworking defenders so they can intercept one target each. Now were talking balance.
Oh yes.. And make the CIWS use no ammo, ECM's a fast "ROF".. You will then only need 1 (ONE->1!) CIWS turrent to kill every missile thats flying to you, even from a raven.. Im thinking 1 thing now, WTF? Maybe a CIWS turrent that uses ammo and has a ROF of 10 would be ok..
As for the ECM's, missiles have insta-locking so I realy don't see what good it would be anyway..
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Tisti
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 10:04:00 -
[124]
Originally by: Helmut 314
TI sure do hope that the next portion of changes comes quickly. Proximity damage, greater missile speed differentials. Anti-missile ECM, CIWS turrets, reworking defenders so they can intercept one target each. Now were talking balance.
Oh yes.. And make the CIWS use no ammo, ECM's a fast "ROF".. You will then only need 1 (ONE->1!) CIWS turrent to kill every missile thats flying to you, even from a raven.. Im thinking 1 thing now, WTF? Maybe a CIWS turrent that uses ammo and has a ROF of 10 would be ok..
As for the ECM's, missiles have insta-locking so I realy don't see what good it would be anyway..
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Persia
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 10:39:00 -
[125]
ECM burst modules to disrupt missile tracking would be a huge help. It would also mean that you could have ships flying as missile screens for some of the bigger ships, using ECM to throw off missile tracking. It would also remove the need for mwd or oversize AB on frigs, given that you can now throw them off when they get close enough. Just make it similar to the way a smartbomb works.
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Persia
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 10:39:00 -
[126]
ECM burst modules to disrupt missile tracking would be a huge help. It would also mean that you could have ships flying as missile screens for some of the bigger ships, using ECM to throw off missile tracking. It would also remove the need for mwd or oversize AB on frigs, given that you can now throw them off when they get close enough. Just make it similar to the way a smartbomb works.
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Chade Malloy
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 10:48:00 -
[127]
thats just what we all wanted now, caldari ships getting even MORE better, so that even MORE ravens are flying around.
They should at least introduce some kind of flare/chaff pods you can release from your frig (since defenders are mostly useless), to avoid being hit by a cruise missile. they could make it so that small flares (used on frigs) have a better chance to shake off large missiles, but small missiles wouldnt be affected. that would bring the raven more on par with other ships in terms of engagement against smaller ships.
Patience wins. |
Chade Malloy
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 10:48:00 -
[128]
thats just what we all wanted now, caldari ships getting even MORE better, so that even MORE ravens are flying around.
They should at least introduce some kind of flare/chaff pods you can release from your frig (since defenders are mostly useless), to avoid being hit by a cruise missile. they could make it so that small flares (used on frigs) have a better chance to shake off large missiles, but small missiles wouldnt be affected. that would bring the raven more on par with other ships in terms of engagement against smaller ships.
Patience wins. |
Helmut 314
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 13:31:00 -
[129]
Well, tell me this then :
From a RP perspective, Gallente and Amarr have arch enemies that rely on missiles for a large portion of their firepower. Its just stupid that they havent developed a counter to such an important offensive enemy system.
Im not asking for a wtfpwn omg missiles-cant-hit-me system, but its hardly good game mechanics like its turning into : omg-he-fired-a-volley-of-missiles-im-dead.
Turrets can be jammed, tracking disrupted and hit badly against a fast-moving target. Missiles hit anything in range and has jamming circumvention available.( FOF )
___________________________________
Trying is the first step of failure
- Homer J Simpson |
Helmut 314
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 13:31:00 -
[130]
Well, tell me this then :
From a RP perspective, Gallente and Amarr have arch enemies that rely on missiles for a large portion of their firepower. Its just stupid that they havent developed a counter to such an important offensive enemy system.
Im not asking for a wtfpwn omg missiles-cant-hit-me system, but its hardly good game mechanics like its turning into : omg-he-fired-a-volley-of-missiles-im-dead.
Turrets can be jammed, tracking disrupted and hit badly against a fast-moving target. Missiles hit anything in range and has jamming circumvention available.( FOF )
___________________________________
Trying is the first step of failure
- Homer J Simpson |
Nervar
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 13:59:00 -
[131]
Possible to get an official response to the original post? For all we know this could bee a glitch inn the matrix
------------------------------------------------->
What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
|
Nervar
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 13:59:00 -
[132]
Possible to get an official response to the original post? For all we know this could bee a glitch inn the matrix
------------------------------------------------->
What I look forward to is continued immaturity followed by death.
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 16:28:00 -
[133]
Bump, need dev reply on this.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 16:28:00 -
[134]
Bump, need dev reply on this.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Grievance
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 16:40:00 -
[135]
as soon as tey apply the missile agility patch, it will make it balanced. the only issue here is that they introduced only a bit of the patch, rather than it all at once.
'A man with a passion for Pirate fashion.' |
Grievance
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 16:40:00 -
[136]
as soon as tey apply the missile agility patch, it will make it balanced. the only issue here is that they introduced only a bit of the patch, rather than it all at once.
'A man with a passion for Pirate fashion.' |
Talons
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 18:28:00 -
[137]
An actual DEV response would be nice, but I imagine they are extremely busy trying to figure out how to fix the other items they have really messed up.
CCP owns the software. They CAN DO what they want, when they want without 'announcing' anything about nerfs, mods, upgrades, balancing stuff, etc.
As with all software development companies they have cut several features out of the current patch in the hope that their customer's will stick it out while they work out the bugs in what they have delivered. This is a VERY typical business practice in the world of software. The biggest example of this trend is a company in Redmond, WA.
Anyway, once they get the client to STOP LOCKING UP everytime someone convos you or you have a chat going in local, THEN we can start addressing the littler issues of what 'systems' are not working properly in the game.
Right now the WHOLE client patch is almost a complete disaster.
So, like Castor, we will be getting things in piecemeal.
The ONLY power we, as customer's, seem to have is the power of the 'purse'. We CAN pull our subscriptions, but like most of you, that would result in the loss of almost a year of training time. That does stink!
I appreciate what CCP is trying to do and I think there is a tremendous entertainment value here in the new features and upgrades, etc. BUT, I feel it would have been better to introduce one new system at a time, work out the bugs until that system is repaired are at least STABLE, and then introduce the next one.
Being in the software industry myself, I have seen tons of "Big Sky" projects fail because management wanted everything delivered at once, when little steps, upgrades, enhancements and repairs are better.
I cannot wait until the next 'patch' that will fix my failing client, which was working rather well under Castor.
By trying to take 10 steps forward, CCP seems to have taken 20 steps backwards...
If TomB would respond it would be appreciated.a
Thanks,
Talons
(In REAL-LIFE, Director Of Engineering)
Co-CEO
Celestial Horizon Corporation
EVE Universe |
Talons
|
Posted - 2004.11.28 18:28:00 -
[138]
An actual DEV response would be nice, but I imagine they are extremely busy trying to figure out how to fix the other items they have really messed up.
CCP owns the software. They CAN DO what they want, when they want without 'announcing' anything about nerfs, mods, upgrades, balancing stuff, etc.
As with all software development companies they have cut several features out of the current patch in the hope that their customer's will stick it out while they work out the bugs in what they have delivered. This is a VERY typical business practice in the world of software. The biggest example of this trend is a company in Redmond, WA.
Anyway, once they get the client to STOP LOCKING UP everytime someone convos you or you have a chat going in local, THEN we can start addressing the littler issues of what 'systems' are not working properly in the game.
Right now the WHOLE client patch is almost a complete disaster.
So, like Castor, we will be getting things in piecemeal.
The ONLY power we, as customer's, seem to have is the power of the 'purse'. We CAN pull our subscriptions, but like most of you, that would result in the loss of almost a year of training time. That does stink!
I appreciate what CCP is trying to do and I think there is a tremendous entertainment value here in the new features and upgrades, etc. BUT, I feel it would have been better to introduce one new system at a time, work out the bugs until that system is repaired are at least STABLE, and then introduce the next one.
Being in the software industry myself, I have seen tons of "Big Sky" projects fail because management wanted everything delivered at once, when little steps, upgrades, enhancements and repairs are better.
I cannot wait until the next 'patch' that will fix my failing client, which was working rather well under Castor.
By trying to take 10 steps forward, CCP seems to have taken 20 steps backwards...
If TomB would respond it would be appreciated.a
Thanks,
Talons
(In REAL-LIFE, Director Of Engineering)
Co-CEO
Celestial Horizon Corporation
EVE Universe |
Lifewire
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 11:44:00 -
[139]
Tackling was already a dangerous job in Castor. Webbers and Nosferatus were deadly for a lot of my Interceptors, while i tryed to scramble a BS until the gankteam comes (possible that the gank team was 3-4 jumps away and i had to keep the prey scrambled for some minutes). There was 1 way: have a stiletto in the tackler team, fitting 3 dampeners. But then CCP did the first stealth change: FOFs did hit, even if the target was outside targeting range. Now another stealth change: missile physics. Before missiles slowed down when turning. Now they keep 2400 m/s even if they have to turn which is pretty unrealistic. There is no problem in adapting and make tacklers faster than 2400 m/s, but to CCP:
IT¦S ABSOLUTLY UNFAIR TO CHANGE IMPORTANT THINGS WITHOUT A NOTE! IMAGINE THE FIFA CHANGING THE SOCCER RULES WITHOUT TELLING THE PLAYERS AND GAME VISITORS!
Anyway: the good players always find out what the agents manipulated on the "matrix". Operator, i need a phone...
|
Lifewire
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 11:44:00 -
[140]
Tackling was already a dangerous job in Castor. Webbers and Nosferatus were deadly for a lot of my Interceptors, while i tryed to scramble a BS until the gankteam comes (possible that the gank team was 3-4 jumps away and i had to keep the prey scrambled for some minutes). There was 1 way: have a stiletto in the tackler team, fitting 3 dampeners. But then CCP did the first stealth change: FOFs did hit, even if the target was outside targeting range. Now another stealth change: missile physics. Before missiles slowed down when turning. Now they keep 2400 m/s even if they have to turn which is pretty unrealistic. There is no problem in adapting and make tacklers faster than 2400 m/s, but to CCP:
IT¦S ABSOLUTLY UNFAIR TO CHANGE IMPORTANT THINGS WITHOUT A NOTE! IMAGINE THE FIFA CHANGING THE SOCCER RULES WITHOUT TELLING THE PLAYERS AND GAME VISITORS!
Anyway: the good players always find out what the agents manipulated on the "matrix". Operator, i need a phone...
|
G8torSkull
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 12:08:00 -
[141]
ffs quit crying people. ceptor pilots have had it way to easy, now they just got to use their brains for once
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G8torSkull
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 12:08:00 -
[142]
ffs quit crying people. ceptor pilots have had it way to easy, now they just got to use their brains for once
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Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 12:54:00 -
[143]
G8or, you either missed the point,
or hardly ever flew a tackler frigate.
Tackling is nearly impossible now,
still, ofcourse, we can adapt.
BUT, the newbie pvpers who only fly tackler
frigs cause they're still learning
will have HELL, it will be impossible for them
to learn how to pvp at all since they will
die at every single engagement, without bringing
any usefullness to the rest of the gang.
The newbie tacklers will simply either quit,
turn carebear, or go for bigger ships without
having the required skills.
And no, by all that i do not mean that for
veteran tacklers it's normal now,
the situation is pure bull!@#$% since not
only does the missile get you within two seconds
of being launched if you're within scrambler range,
but also there is lag which prevents you of seeing
the missile being launched and leaves you to the
split second of noticing it being in detonation-range from you,
which basically means you're dead before you fully realize it.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Vex Seraphim
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 12:54:00 -
[144]
G8or, you either missed the point,
or hardly ever flew a tackler frigate.
Tackling is nearly impossible now,
still, ofcourse, we can adapt.
BUT, the newbie pvpers who only fly tackler
frigs cause they're still learning
will have HELL, it will be impossible for them
to learn how to pvp at all since they will
die at every single engagement, without bringing
any usefullness to the rest of the gang.
The newbie tacklers will simply either quit,
turn carebear, or go for bigger ships without
having the required skills.
And no, by all that i do not mean that for
veteran tacklers it's normal now,
the situation is pure bull!@#$% since not
only does the missile get you within two seconds
of being launched if you're within scrambler range,
but also there is lag which prevents you of seeing
the missile being launched and leaves you to the
split second of noticing it being in detonation-range from you,
which basically means you're dead before you fully realize it.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
|
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 13:00:00 -
[145]
Originally by: G8torSkull
ffs quit crying people. ceptor pilots have had it way to easy, now they just got to use their brains for once
Shut up noobloid.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Juan Andalusian
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 13:00:00 -
[146]
Originally by: G8torSkull
ffs quit crying people. ceptor pilots have had it way to easy, now they just got to use their brains for once
Shut up noobloid.
**Pain is meant to be felt** |
Iratus Caelestis
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 13:25:00 -
[147]
Edited by: Iratus Caelestis on 29/11/2004 13:28:13
It's a good change and is needed due to Inty pilots still being too hard to hit and taking the assault frigate role because of it.
However even as a Raven pilot it does seem whack that this has been slipped into the game without notice as people will need to make adjustments to their tactics. Especially those inty pilots that fly further away.
If the inty flys closer however the Cruise probably still won't be able to intercept in time. So come on Inty's into webbie range you come :twisted:
There is another thing that bugs me however, technically turrets should do the same thing, if a ship was stationary your guns wouldn't sit spinning in their sockets trying to keep up with a fast moving target orbiting it. Instead they would just calculate the distance, calculate the time it takes for a round to go that distance, calculate how long the enemy ship travels in that time and then fire accordingly. Tracking should only be an issue for the ship that is moving.
|
Iratus Caelestis
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 13:25:00 -
[148]
Edited by: Iratus Caelestis on 29/11/2004 13:28:13
It's a good change and is needed due to Inty pilots still being too hard to hit and taking the assault frigate role because of it.
However even as a Raven pilot it does seem whack that this has been slipped into the game without notice as people will need to make adjustments to their tactics. Especially those inty pilots that fly further away.
If the inty flys closer however the Cruise probably still won't be able to intercept in time. So come on Inty's into webbie range you come :twisted:
There is another thing that bugs me however, technically turrets should do the same thing, if a ship was stationary your guns wouldn't sit spinning in their sockets trying to keep up with a fast moving target orbiting it. Instead they would just calculate the distance, calculate the time it takes for a round to go that distance, calculate how long the enemy ship travels in that time and then fire accordingly. Tracking should only be an issue for the ship that is moving.
|
Hans Roaming
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 13:52:00 -
[149]
Real missiles track a target like this by calcutlating and aiming for the intercept point, however although they can pull lots of G's thier very speed means that thier turn radius is not so great.
Maybe if the missiles in game did not have uber speed and uber agility it would balance the game a bit more, for example the larger the missile the lower the agility or maybe a chaff/decoy module in a high slot. If the missile had a splash damage radius when impacting the chaff/decoy object this would mean that slow moving ships using it would still take damage however fast ships would take less. With a low agility for large missiles and hence greater turn radius it means that manouvering would have to be used to throw off a missile however orbiting at 15km would not be so great as the missile wouldn't have to have that tight a turn radius to intercept to start with. A third solution might be that a missile slows down to tighten up it's turn radius and this would mean a heavily manouvering target would have a chance.
Right now I don't have the skills / money for interceptors but fly a vigil to tackle, how am I meant to help in an engagement? No flames please, just suggestions.
Thanks
Hans
PS I have equal training on caldari and gallente.
WTS: Male, 37, single, can fly starships, build rockets and dance Salsa.
WTB: Female, plays eve, lives near London UK |
Hans Roaming
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 13:52:00 -
[150]
Real missiles track a target like this by calcutlating and aiming for the intercept point, however although they can pull lots of G's thier very speed means that thier turn radius is not so great.
Maybe if the missiles in game did not have uber speed and uber agility it would balance the game a bit more, for example the larger the missile the lower the agility or maybe a chaff/decoy module in a high slot. If the missile had a splash damage radius when impacting the chaff/decoy object this would mean that slow moving ships using it would still take damage however fast ships would take less. With a low agility for large missiles and hence greater turn radius it means that manouvering would have to be used to throw off a missile however orbiting at 15km would not be so great as the missile wouldn't have to have that tight a turn radius to intercept to start with. A third solution might be that a missile slows down to tighten up it's turn radius and this would mean a heavily manouvering target would have a chance.
Right now I don't have the skills / money for interceptors but fly a vigil to tackle, how am I meant to help in an engagement? No flames please, just suggestions.
Thanks
Hans
PS I have equal training on caldari and gallente.
WTS: Male, 37, single, can fly starships, build rockets and dance Salsa.
WTB: Female, plays eve, lives near London UK |
Lifewire
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 14:17:00 -
[151]
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:24:28
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:20:05
The way missiles move was not changed - it¦s only the speed! If a interceptor flys 1 direction at 3300 m/s, orbits at 5 km with 2500 m/s it wont get hit. But if the same interceptor orbits at 2,5 km it will get hit, because the missile has no problem doing this cricle with 2400 m/s, while the interceptors speed will drop to 1900 m/s.
The whole thing is crap. A cruise missile is a BS weapon. It shouldnt be able to hit an interceptor - an interceptor should be way too fast and agile for such a big missile. The real problem is that CCP make it impossible to load light and heavy missiles into a siege launcher. Make possible to load light and heavy missiles into siege and cruise launcher and the thing is fixed. Cruise missiles should be slower than light missiles. Sidewinder missile in RL is also faster than Tomahawk cruise missile. Sidewinder is made to hit Migs and Tomahawk to hit slow or not moving tanked targets.
Logical change:
-Torps 600 m/s
-Cruise missile 1000 m/s
-Heavy missile 1500 m/s
-Light missile 2500 m/s
-Rockets 5000 m/s
Big launchers must be able to load small missiles too.
Missile fix done...
|
Lifewire
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 14:17:00 -
[152]
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:24:28
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:20:05
The way missiles move was not changed - it¦s only the speed! If a interceptor flys 1 direction at 3300 m/s, orbits at 5 km with 2500 m/s it wont get hit. But if the same interceptor orbits at 2,5 km it will get hit, because the missile has no problem doing this cricle with 2400 m/s, while the interceptors speed will drop to 1900 m/s.
The whole thing is crap. A cruise missile is a BS weapon. It shouldnt be able to hit an interceptor - an interceptor should be way too fast and agile for such a big missile. The real problem is that CCP make it impossible to load light and heavy missiles into a siege launcher. Make possible to load light and heavy missiles into siege and cruise launcher and the thing is fixed. Cruise missiles should be slower than light missiles. Sidewinder missile in RL is also faster than Tomahawk cruise missile. Sidewinder is made to hit Migs and Tomahawk to hit slow or not moving tanked targets.
Logical change:
-Torps 600 m/s
-Cruise missile 1000 m/s
-Heavy missile 1500 m/s
-Light missile 2500 m/s
-Rockets 5000 m/s
Big launchers must be able to load small missiles too.
Missile fix done...
|
Siddy
|
Posted - 2004.11.29 14:26:00 -
[153]
Originally by: Lifewire
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:24:28
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:20:05
Logical change:
-Torps 600 m/s
-Cruise missile 1000 m/s
-Heavy missile 1500 m/s
-Light missile 2500 m/s
-Rockets 5000 m/s
Big launchers must be able to load small missiles too.
Missile fix done...
this whuld ruin Ravens fleet battle abilities, what arent wonderful even with current system
-------------------------------------------
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Siddy
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:26:00 -
[154]
Originally by: Lifewire
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:24:28
Edited by: Lifewire on 29/11/2004 14:20:05
Logical change:
-Torps 600 m/s
-Cruise missile 1000 m/s
-Heavy missile 1500 m/s
-Light missile 2500 m/s
-Rockets 5000 m/s
Big launchers must be able to load small missiles too.
Missile fix done...
this whuld ruin Ravens fleet battle abilities, what arent wonderful even with current system
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Stan hyd
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:28:00 -
[155]
funny change
still gonna fly an inter i reckon ill be ok
STIZUM
FACTA NON VERBA |
Stan hyd
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:28:00 -
[156]
funny change
still gonna fly an inter i reckon ill be ok
STIZUM
FACTA NON VERBA |
Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:39:00 -
[157]
Do not change anything, just make the missiles as they were before.
everything was fine, carelessness got you killed back then too.
No need for revolutionary solutions and un-asked changes,
just bring it back as it was.
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Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:39:00 -
[158]
Do not change anything, just make the missiles as they were before.
everything was fine, carelessness got you killed back then too.
No need for revolutionary solutions and un-asked changes,
just bring it back as it was.
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:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:54:00 -
[159]
Originally by: agrizla
...but then again missiles are WAY overpowered at the moment. I'm sure TomB will be along to nerf everything in sight into oblivion soon anyway
Missles are NOT OVERPOWERED. If you consider the maximum possible damage a Raven pilot can do with 6 siege launchers and maxed missle skills it is still nothing compared to what guns can do. A Raven can be easily tanked by any tier 2 BS as the max damage is very much limited. Of course missles are nice against friggs/cruisers, but hey: a cruise missle hitting a frigg MUST be a problem.
I like realistic and logical changes and this one IS a good change. Fix defenders and everything is fine.
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:54:00 -
[160]
Originally by: agrizla
...but then again missiles are WAY overpowered at the moment. I'm sure TomB will be along to nerf everything in sight into oblivion soon anyway
Missles are NOT OVERPOWERED. If you consider the maximum possible damage a Raven pilot can do with 6 siege launchers and maxed missle skills it is still nothing compared to what guns can do. A Raven can be easily tanked by any tier 2 BS as the max damage is very much limited. Of course missles are nice against friggs/cruisers, but hey: a cruise missle hitting a frigg MUST be a problem.
I like realistic and logical changes and this one IS a good change. Fix defenders and everything is fine.
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Holi
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:57:00 -
[161]
Agree, bring back the old system.
Don't just check one side of the coin.
--
Holi
[ md5 checksum calculator ] |
Holi
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Posted - 2004.11.29 14:57:00 -
[162]
Agree, bring back the old system.
Don't just check one side of the coin.
--
Holi
[ md5 checksum calculator ] |
Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2004.11.29 15:04:00 -
[163]
Originally by: Helmut 314
Well, tell me this then :
From a RP perspective, Gallente and Amarr have arch enemies that rely on missiles for a large portion of their firepower. Its just stupid that they havent developed a counter to such an important offensive enemy system.
Im not asking for a wtfpwn omg missiles-cant-hit-me system, but its hardly good game mechanics like its turning into : omg-he-fired-a-volley-of-missiles-im-dead.
Turrets can be jammed, tracking disrupted and hit badly against a fast-moving target. Missiles hit anything in range and has jamming circumvention available.( FOF )
The missle owning system is named ROCKET LAUNCHER.
One rocket launcher with a ROF of 3s is enough to render 4! Siege Launcher close to useless (Siege RoF with Caldari BS lv5 on a Raven is ~12.5s). Fit 2 of them (which IS possible on almost any BS) and you are fine. Anymore questions?
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2004.11.29 15:04:00 -
[164]
Originally by: Helmut 314
Well, tell me this then :
From a RP perspective, Gallente and Amarr have arch enemies that rely on missiles for a large portion of their firepower. Its just stupid that they havent developed a counter to such an important offensive enemy system.
Im not asking for a wtfpwn omg missiles-cant-hit-me system, but its hardly good game mechanics like its turning into : omg-he-fired-a-volley-of-missiles-im-dead.
Turrets can be jammed, tracking disrupted and hit badly against a fast-moving target. Missiles hit anything in range and has jamming circumvention available.( FOF )
The missle owning system is named ROCKET LAUNCHER.
One rocket launcher with a ROF of 3s is enough to render 4! Siege Launcher close to useless (Siege RoF with Caldari BS lv5 on a Raven is ~12.5s). Fit 2 of them (which IS possible on almost any BS) and you are fine. Anymore questions?
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2004.11.29 15:09:00 -
[165]
Originally by: Lifewire
Cruise missiles should be slower than light missiles. Sidewinder missile in RL is also faster than Tomahawk cruise missile. Sidewinder is made to hit Migs and Tomahawk to hit slow or not moving tanked targets.
Since we are in space, we have less effects making bigger missles being slower. In fact the only thing determining the speed of a missle here is its mass vs. engine. And a CM can have a numerous times bigger engine than a light missle thus making speed equally high or even higher (as the warhead is small compared to the full mass, but still number of times the one of a light missle).
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Andrew Redburn
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Posted - 2004.11.29 15:09:00 -
[166]
Originally by: Lifewire
Cruise missiles should be slower than light missiles. Sidewinder missile in RL is also faster than Tomahawk cruise missile. Sidewinder is made to hit Migs and Tomahawk to hit slow or not moving tanked targets.
Since we are in space, we have less effects making bigger missles being slower. In fact the only thing determining the speed of a missle here is its mass vs. engine. And a CM can have a numerous times bigger engine than a light missle thus making speed equally high or even higher (as the warhead is small compared to the full mass, but still number of times the one of a light missle).
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.11.29 15:18:00 -
[167]
Why should the biggest missile be the fastest, while the missiles that should be meant for interceptor killing are too slow to catch an interceptor??? Not logical this.
The Raven will be fine even if the cruise missiles go only 1000 m/s. The big advantadge of the Raven is, that he deosnt have to care about tracking or distance. Fire and forget. All the gunships have to keep an eye on distance and tracking.
Right now the Raven is the best anti-friggi BS. Hav a Raven with some sensor boosters, 2 nosferatus, some webbers within your fleet should fix any friggi-problems.
Meanwhile an Apocs or Geddons perforcemance vs friggis is near 0. Bad balance. I really know what i talk of, because we destroyed tons of BS in friggis-teams. Ravens are dangerous, so are Scorpions - but forget the gunships, they can be downed with 2 interceptors except an Apoc wich could tank the damage output of 8 interceptors.
I would really balance this things about the ammo. A Raven could load small fast missiles, that don¦t do devastating damage like a cruise missile volley on a 900 hitpoint-ship. And gunships should have a special "shotgun"-ammo for their guns to defend themselves against friggis. This gun-ammo must do much lees damage than the normal ammo, but it should be able to hit friggis.
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Lifewire
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Posted - 2004.11.29 15:18:00 -
[168]
Why should the biggest missile be the fastest, while the missiles that should be meant for interceptor killing are too slow to catch an interceptor??? Not logical this.
The Raven will be fine even if the cruise missiles go only 1000 m/s. The big advantadge of the Raven is, that he deosnt have to care about tracking or distance. Fire and forget. All the gunships have to keep an eye on distance and tracking.
Right now the Raven is the best anti-friggi BS. Hav a Raven with some sensor boosters, 2 nosferatus, some webbers within your fleet should fix any friggi-problems.
Meanwhile an Apocs or Geddons perforcemance vs friggis is near 0. Bad balance. I really know what i talk of, because we destroyed tons of BS in friggis-teams. Ravens are dangerous, so are Scorpions - but forget the gunships, they can be downed with 2 interceptors except an Apoc wich could tank the damage output of 8 interceptors.
I would really balance this things about the ammo. A Raven could load small fast missiles, that don¦t do devastating damage like a cruise missile volley on a 900 hitpoint-ship. And gunships should have a special "shotgun"-ammo for their guns to defend themselves against friggis. This gun-ammo must do much lees damage than the normal ammo, but it should be able to hit friggis.
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Derisor
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Posted - 2004.11.29 15:37:00 -
[169]
LOL ... everyone keeps telling anyone complaining about the missile imbalance to "adapt"
If you dont fly a missile boat now you are out of your mind. They might as well remove turrets.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Derisor
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Posted - 2004.11.29 15:37:00 -
[170]
LOL ... everyone keeps telling anyone complaining about the missile imbalance to "adapt"
If you dont fly a missile boat now you are out of your mind. They might as well remove turrets.
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The words "Exciting" and "Safe" are mutually exclusive; pick one. |
Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.11.29 18:30:00 -
[171]
Reducing cruise missile speed requires to increase it's life
otherwise the range is shortened by much.
so no, reducing the speed isn't really the best solution.
using defenders.. it might work, yet defenders afaik won't have time to react.
the flight time before detonation(assuming the tackler is scrambling, not disrupting)
is so short that it's simply beyond any multiplayer game
to correctly process this kind of reactons, imho.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
:: bio :: blog ::
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Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.11.29 18:30:00 -
[172]
Reducing cruise missile speed requires to increase it's life
otherwise the range is shortened by much.
so no, reducing the speed isn't really the best solution.
using defenders.. it might work, yet defenders afaik won't have time to react.
the flight time before detonation(assuming the tackler is scrambling, not disrupting)
is so short that it's simply beyond any multiplayer game
to correctly process this kind of reactons, imho.
-------------------
:: finite horizon :: killboard ::
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Solant
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Posted - 2004.11.29 19:19:00 -
[173]
Edited by: Solant on 29/11/2004 19:22:50
Actually, this change benefits frigate pilots who know what they're up against. No, you can't simply hit "Orbit at 5km". But with proper tactics you will be able to avoid being hit by many missiles that previously would have hit you. You have to factor in speed and direction, because thats what the missile aims for. I was able to kill a Kestrel last night in my Rifter and I only took one missile hit- and I never left 15km or so distance.
However, there are still serious balance problems between missiles and turrets, and cruise missiles in general...
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Solant
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Posted - 2004.11.29 19:19:00 -
[174]
Edited by: Solant on 29/11/2004 19:22:50
Actually, this change benefits frigate pilots who know what they're up against. No, you can't simply hit "Orbit at 5km". But with proper tactics you will be able to avoid being hit by many missiles that previously would have hit you. You have to factor in speed and direction, because thats what the missile aims for. I was able to kill a Kestrel last night in my Rifter and I only took one missile hit- and I never left 15km or so distance.
However, there are still serious balance problems between missiles and turrets, and cruise missiles in general...
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Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.11.30 06:58:00 -
[175]
perhaps if we change this topic to 'question about quafe'
we'll get a dev answer
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Vex Seraphim
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Posted - 2004.11.30 06:58:00 -
[176]
perhaps if we change this topic to 'question about quafe'
we'll get a dev answer
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