EVE Search - Solving the Pirate Menace

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Master Scy	Posted - 2003.06.26 05:27:00 - [31] Yes, the ships destroyed counts ships lost to NPCs as well as players, I just stuck that in to show that actual piracy is higher than number of pod kills (since it would be next to impossible to have lost a ship to NPC pirates in Mara, etc unless you want to). Actual piracy is probably a few times higher than pod kills since not all pirates intend to pod, or act quickly enough to do that. In Mara, etc there's 5-10 people camping at a time, meaning that they'd have a better podding to ship destruction ratio than elsewhere. Then add to that the cases where people escape from pirates completely, without losing their ships. My point was that piracy exists, even though you didn't come across much of it yourself (neither did I btw, I had to pass through mara/passari twice, and no problems other than that). ----------------------------- You think Marco Polo said "Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ? -Indigo Seqi
Master Scy Caldari	Posted - 2003.06.26 05:27:00 - [32] Yes, the ships destroyed counts ships lost to NPCs as well as players, I just stuck that in to show that actual piracy is higher than number of pod kills (since it would be next to impossible to have lost a ship to NPC pirates in Mara, etc unless you want to). Actual piracy is probably a few times higher than pod kills since not all pirates intend to pod, or act quickly enough to do that. In Mara, etc there's 5-10 people camping at a time, meaning that they'd have a better podding to ship destruction ratio than elsewhere. Then add to that the cases where people escape from pirates completely, without losing their ships. My point was that piracy exists, even though you didn't come across much of it yourself (neither did I btw, I had to pass through mara/passari twice, and no problems other than that). ----------------------------- You think Marco Polo said "Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ? -Indigo Seqi
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.26 05:33:00 - [33] << My point was that piracy exists, even though you didn't come across much of it yourself (neither did I btw, I had to pass through mara/passari twice, and no problems other than that). >> My point is the people are blowing this whole situation out of proportion. And that most of the urgency comes from people that incurred a the loss. In reality most of the time spent in Eve goes without encountering a player pirate. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.26 05:33:00 - [34] << My point was that piracy exists, even though you didn't come across much of it yourself (neither did I btw, I had to pass through mara/passari twice, and no problems other than that). >> My point is the people are blowing this whole situation out of proportion. And that most of the urgency comes from people that incurred a the loss. In reality most of the time spent in Eve goes without encountering a player pirate. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Master Scy	Posted - 2003.06.26 05:48:00 - [35] I do understand your point, even if piracy set you back 30 minutes there would still be a lot of complaining, etc. But when 1 encounter can set you back 1 week, I don't think people are blowing things out of proportion.. What makes the things worse is that currently, the Mara/Passari situation simply cannot be resolved (unless someone out there has a good suggestion on how to take out 5 cruisers and 1 battleship surrounded by 100 containers which make everyone lag when warping in, and when those pirates will all warp out at the first sign of trouble, and come back later). ----------------------------- You think Marco Polo said "Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ? -Indigo Seqi
Master Scy Caldari	Posted - 2003.06.26 05:48:00 - [36] I do understand your point, even if piracy set you back 30 minutes there would still be a lot of complaining, etc. But when 1 encounter can set you back 1 week, I don't think people are blowing things out of proportion.. What makes the things worse is that currently, the Mara/Passari situation simply cannot be resolved (unless someone out there has a good suggestion on how to take out 5 cruisers and 1 battleship surrounded by 100 containers which make everyone lag when warping in, and when those pirates will all warp out at the first sign of trouble, and come back later). ----------------------------- You think Marco Polo said "Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ? -Indigo Seqi
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.26 06:00:00 - [37] << But when 1 encounter can set you back 1 week, I don't think people are blowing things out of proportion.. >> Those are the risks of playing this game period. A disconnect from your ISP warping into a roid belt will lose you that shiny cruiser and everything aboard. And the only people to blame when someone loses everything they own in a single shot is the person that carried everything they owned in the first place. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.26 06:00:00 - [38] << But when 1 encounter can set you back 1 week, I don't think people are blowing things out of proportion.. >> Those are the risks of playing this game period. A disconnect from your ISP warping into a roid belt will lose you that shiny cruiser and everything aboard. And the only people to blame when someone loses everything they own in a single shot is the person that carried everything they owned in the first place. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Molly	Posted - 2003.06.26 06:11:00 - [39] There were recently no containers. I checked it. You can make money safely in down to 0.5 with mining and it's good money. Or you can go to one of the hundreds 0.0 systems which are player empty and get some nice loot and NPC bounties. Get your BS in high sec space mining or via NPC bounties and go after m0o yourself. I don't care what's happening there. Neither does the Caldari state. So stop accusing people please and stop the crying. From 0.4 on your ship can be destroyed, you can be podded. And CONCORD won't help. Realize this and play to minimize your risks. I can build me each 2-3h of game time a new low end cruiser or dozens of frigates and cheap clones. Unless you are able to do similar things stay out of Mara/Passari. Can't be that hard. Working 1 week for something and taking the highest risk you can go then (e.g. going to Mara/Passari), without having some assets in the bank doesn't sound smart to me. Sorry. --- "Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so? Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor? Molly > lol Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships"
Molly Gallente Doomheim	Posted - 2003.06.26 06:11:00 - [40] There were recently no containers. I checked it. You can make money safely in down to 0.5 with mining and it's good money. Or you can go to one of the hundreds 0.0 systems which are player empty and get some nice loot and NPC bounties. Get your BS in high sec space mining or via NPC bounties and go after m0o yourself. I don't care what's happening there. Neither does the Caldari state. So stop accusing people please and stop the crying. From 0.4 on your ship can be destroyed, you can be podded. And CONCORD won't help. Realize this and play to minimize your risks. I can build me each 2-3h of game time a new low end cruiser or dozens of frigates and cheap clones. Unless you are able to do similar things stay out of Mara/Passari. Can't be that hard. Working 1 week for something and taking the highest risk you can go then (e.g. going to Mara/Passari), without having some assets in the bank doesn't sound smart to me. Sorry. --- "Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so? Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor? Molly > lol Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships"
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.26 06:16:00 - [41] Ooo...I have to update the number of pirate encounters. I'm in a system right now with DelZon of M0o. Halfway tempted to go check out his ship :D I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.26 06:16:00 - [42] Ooo...I have to update the number of pirate encounters. I'm in a system right now with DelZon of M0o. Halfway tempted to go check out his ship :D I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Molly	Posted - 2003.06.26 06:19:00 - [43] Rofl. Good luck. --- "Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so? Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor? Molly > lol Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships"
Molly Gallente Doomheim	Posted - 2003.06.26 06:19:00 - [44] Rofl. Good luck. --- "Molly > funny thing is, if they warn me for attacking in 1.0, why does a GM wish me luck doing so? Jash Illian > perverse sense of humor? Molly > lol Jash Illian > honestly tho, because he prolly doesn't know bships"
Charlatan	Posted - 2003.06.26 06:38:00 - [45] "But let's just stick with the snapshot to keep it simple. Out of 4715 people 162 suffered a loss of their ship in Mara, Passari and Eifer. Hrm...162 out of 4715 isn't a majority. Hrm...it's not even a significant number." There's a flaw in this logic. 162 is the number of people blasted in only a 24 hour period. Unless it's always the same people losing their ships then many more than 162 people are involved.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.26 06:38:00 - [46] << Rofl. Good luck. >> Wasn't needed. Just went to the station where I needed to make a pickup, grabbed the cargo (blueprints), and on the way out I stopped at the planet nearest to my exit stargate. From there it ws nothing for my Rifter to scan out 55km and see if anyone was near the gate. When I saw the gate was clear, I warped in and left. Never caught sight of DelZon. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.26 06:38:00 - [47] << Rofl. Good luck. >> Wasn't needed. Just went to the station where I needed to make a pickup, grabbed the cargo (blueprints), and on the way out I stopped at the planet nearest to my exit stargate. From there it ws nothing for my Rifter to scan out 55km and see if anyone was near the gate. When I saw the gate was clear, I warped in and left. Never caught sight of DelZon. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Charlatan Caldari All For One	Posted - 2003.06.26 06:38:00 - [48] "But let's just stick with the snapshot to keep it simple. Out of 4715 people 162 suffered a loss of their ship in Mara, Passari and Eifer. Hrm...162 out of 4715 isn't a majority. Hrm...it's not even a significant number." There's a flaw in this logic. 162 is the number of people blasted in only a 24 hour period. Unless it's always the same people losing their ships then many more than 162 people are involved.
Jash Illian	Posted - 2003.06.26 06:50:00 - [49] << There's a flaw in this logic. 162 is the number of people blasted in only a 24 hour period. Unless it's always the same people losing their ships then many more than 162 people are involved. >> The flaw is on your side of the logic bar. Let's assume 200 totally different people everyday and assume Eve has 20k customers. That would mean 1% of the population gets hit in those 3 systems daily... BUT, they'd then go another 99 days without incident. 1% is below the margin of error for the IRS. And people that get repeatedly hit just lowers the percentage further. There's no way to argue Mara/Passari as the example of what happens in the Eve Universe. That's the real flaw in the argument: it lacks the total ships/pod destroyed over the entire Eve universe in PvP fights with pirates. That still doesn't change that most people have never seen a M0o member or Setec or a Red Corsair. And few see them on a regular basis, except the extremely stubborn that keep throwing themselves at their blockades to justify their argument of dying repeatedly at their hands. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Jash Illian Minmatar Light Brigade Industries L.L.C.	Posted - 2003.06.26 06:50:00 - [50] << There's a flaw in this logic. 162 is the number of people blasted in only a 24 hour period. Unless it's always the same people losing their ships then many more than 162 people are involved. >> The flaw is on your side of the logic bar. Let's assume 200 totally different people everyday and assume Eve has 20k customers. That would mean 1% of the population gets hit in those 3 systems daily... BUT, they'd then go another 99 days without incident. 1% is below the margin of error for the IRS. And people that get repeatedly hit just lowers the percentage further. There's no way to argue Mara/Passari as the example of what happens in the Eve Universe. That's the real flaw in the argument: it lacks the total ships/pod destroyed over the entire Eve universe in PvP fights with pirates. That still doesn't change that most people have never seen a M0o member or Setec or a Red Corsair. And few see them on a regular basis, except the extremely stubborn that keep throwing themselves at their blockades to justify their argument of dying repeatedly at their hands. I mean its like you want corporations to oblige each other like its sex or something. Pffft I would rather *** my enemy.- Rohann Be careful out there. That other guy waiting in the queue for the gate MIGHT be a baby-munching frock-burner, YOU JUST DON'T KNOW!*- Lallante
Master Scy	Posted - 2003.06.26 08:34:00 - [51] Let me tell you how I see the situation in Lonetrek: around 100 people lost their ships to player pirates, some more managed to run away or get through the gate in time. Some actually paid the pirates off, or jetissoned part or all of their cargo. Some others decided to take another route between the 2 sections of Lonetrek, taking 50 jumps. Others decided to leave Lonetrek entirely, and some new characters may have been recommended not to even start a character in Lonetrek to make things easier. To me, it seems like life in Lonetrek is now based on avoiding piracy, for those who need to move a lot. Now, I'm not saying that there should be no piracy in empire space, I merely suggest that blockades should not last 3 weeks right in the middle of an empire region. Piracy within empire space should be reduced to quick, risky raids, and blockades of half an hour, not 3 weeks. Edited by: Master Scy on 26/06/2003 08:34:35 ----------------------------- You think Marco Polo said "Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ? -Indigo Seqi
Master Scy Caldari	Posted - 2003.06.26 08:34:00 - [52] Let me tell you how I see the situation in Lonetrek: around 100 people lost their ships to player pirates, some more managed to run away or get through the gate in time. Some actually paid the pirates off, or jetissoned part or all of their cargo. Some others decided to take another route between the 2 sections of Lonetrek, taking 50 jumps. Others decided to leave Lonetrek entirely, and some new characters may have been recommended not to even start a character in Lonetrek to make things easier. To me, it seems like life in Lonetrek is now based on avoiding piracy, for those who need to move a lot. Now, I'm not saying that there should be no piracy in empire space, I merely suggest that blockades should not last 3 weeks right in the middle of an empire region. Piracy within empire space should be reduced to quick, risky raids, and blockades of half an hour, not 3 weeks. Edited by: Master Scy on 26/06/2003 08:34:35 ----------------------------- You think Marco Polo said "Damn Mongolians were camping that cave entry into the next valley the entire day, you can't get friggin anywhere in the world with those damn griefer tribes all over the place" ? -Indigo Seqi
Fester Addams	Posted - 2003.06.26 09:09:00 - [53] So mods, how much money would the players have to shell out to raise the Mara/Passari gauntlet into .6 sec rating? As we the players are suposed to eventially be able to buy everything we the players must be able to shell out cash to raise the rating in systems. How much isk would it take to make concorde (or what the bloody hell the police is called) to beef up security in the Mara/Passari nexus to make it "safe", give me an estimate, I wount be shelling out but with so many people complaining I bet there are alot of players willing to put down big wads of cash if it would meen safe pasage. How much, its a simple ingame question, how much is +0.1 sec rating worth? Also, if ccp refuses to give a reasonable cash figure (Im talking a high number but a number that is plausable) then ccp's intention is clear, they will have sided with the pirates and all the rest of us will have to make the simple decition will we keep playing and accept it or leave the game and let it wither and die before it takes off.
Fester Addams Minmatar	Posted - 2003.06.26 09:09:00 - [54] So mods, how much money would the players have to shell out to raise the Mara/Passari gauntlet into .6 sec rating? As we the players are suposed to eventially be able to buy everything we the players must be able to shell out cash to raise the rating in systems. How much isk would it take to make concorde (or what the bloody hell the police is called) to beef up security in the Mara/Passari nexus to make it "safe", give me an estimate, I wount be shelling out but with so many people complaining I bet there are alot of players willing to put down big wads of cash if it would meen safe pasage. How much, its a simple ingame question, how much is +0.1 sec rating worth? Also, if ccp refuses to give a reasonable cash figure (Im talking a high number but a number that is plausable) then ccp's intention is clear, they will have sided with the pirates and all the rest of us will have to make the simple decition will we keep playing and accept it or leave the game and let it wither and die before it takes off.
Whoopy	Posted - 2003.06.26 09:36:00 - [55] Unless if effected yourself the mid- and large sized Corps should have become a level to fight them back. Pirate corps are getting stronger and now also small corps decide to join the dark side cause its too easy. Every region should be strong enough to initiate a fighting group thats able to blast the PK¦s out of region. Look at Stentec who¦s able to terrorise a system with a blackbird and a couple of frigs in a 20 member corp. Its only possible while no one is interesting to kick his BB to hell where he belongs to. If not there would be another few corps in near future who decide that before they are shot by passing a system its better to block one themselfes. I believe there is a life before death
Whoopy Sol Systems Corp	Posted - 2003.06.26 09:36:00 - [56] Unless if effected yourself the mid- and large sized Corps should have become a level to fight them back. Pirate corps are getting stronger and now also small corps decide to join the dark side cause its too easy. Every region should be strong enough to initiate a fighting group thats able to blast the PK¦s out of region. Look at Stentec who¦s able to terrorise a system with a blackbird and a couple of frigs in a 20 member corp. Its only possible while no one is interesting to kick his BB to hell where he belongs to. If not there would be another few corps in near future who decide that before they are shot by passing a system its better to block one themselfes. I believe there is a life before death
ddogg	Posted - 2003.06.26 10:14:00 - [57] The problem just doesnt exist till it happens to you. Up till yesterday id have said the same as Jash - whats all the fuss about. But I did get attacked in what Id always considered safe space, and my Thorax was almost destroyed in 20seconds flat - In this instance I escaped, but was a close run thing. I have to say tho those mo0 boys hit hard and fast. If we stop the PvP in EVE we will loose too much - the game will become bland. We really do just have to deal with the pirates as players either by runing, fighting or just plain avoiding. We will all suffer losses at some point in time. CEO -
ddogg Amarr HuzzaH	Posted - 2003.06.26 10:14:00 - [58] The problem just doesnt exist till it happens to you. Up till yesterday id have said the same as Jash - whats all the fuss about. But I did get attacked in what Id always considered safe space, and my Thorax was almost destroyed in 20seconds flat - In this instance I escaped, but was a close run thing. I have to say tho those mo0 boys hit hard and fast. If we stop the PvP in EVE we will loose too much - the game will become bland. We really do just have to deal with the pirates as players either by runing, fighting or just plain avoiding. We will all suffer losses at some point in time. CEO -
Cptmorgan	Posted - 2003.06.26 17:19:00 - [59] It all comes to this. Ooh ooh TTI is greedy greedy people. Ok, why do you not want to fight the pirates in your small groups and corps? Because you may lose your ships and get podded. This would mean you lose money and time. Much easier to make someone else lose it. Now who is being greedy? You say 'but we are too few in numbers and are unorganized'. Umm...last time I checked A LOT of people are tired of pirates. And as for not being organized enough...WELL GET ORGANIZED! What, it's another corps fault because you are too dang lazy to get your act in gear. And don't tell me the majority of you would pass up a NAP with pirates outa principle! I know for a fact if I had the option then I would concider it. I know some of you would spit in their face and my hats off to you. The last thing, why the heck are we asking TTI to take care of it! Last time I checked and read their web site, they were just a business group. They have a small sub division of defense, but thats it. I'm not saying they couldn't put up a fight, but aren't there purely Military corps out there? Why the heck are you guys not bothering them! It's like asking Bill Gates to fight a war for you, just because he can throw the most money at the problem! TTI has solved the problem for themselves so it's time for everyone else who was trying to ride on their coat tails to move on to plan B. There seems to be no shortage of 'Moral leaders' out there, time to put your money where your mouth is. If you are not 'greedy' people who's sole concern is ISK then lead us to the Holy land! Get organized and solve the problem that you are more than happy to force onto others! In short, Put up or shut up and take your nap
Cptmorgan	Posted - 2003.06.26 17:19:00 - [60] It all comes to this. Ooh ooh TTI is greedy greedy people. Ok, why do you not want to fight the pirates in your small groups and corps? Because you may lose your ships and get podded. This would mean you lose money and time. Much easier to make someone else lose it. Now who is being greedy? You say 'but we are too few in numbers and are unorganized'. Umm...last time I checked A LOT of people are tired of pirates. And as for not being organized enough...WELL GET ORGANIZED! What, it's another corps fault because you are too dang lazy to get your act in gear. And don't tell me the majority of you would pass up a NAP with pirates outa principle! I know for a fact if I had the option then I would concider it. I know some of you would spit in their face and my hats off to you. The last thing, why the heck are we asking TTI to take care of it! Last time I checked and read their web site, they were just a business group. They have a small sub division of defense, but thats it. I'm not saying they couldn't put up a fight, but aren't there purely Military corps out there? Why the heck are you guys not bothering them! It's like asking Bill Gates to fight a war for you, just because he can throw the most money at the problem! TTI has solved the problem for themselves so it's time for everyone else who was trying to ride on their coat tails to move on to plan B. There seems to be no shortage of 'Moral leaders' out there, time to put your money where your mouth is. If you are not 'greedy' people who's sole concern is ISK then lead us to the Holy land! Get organized and solve the problem that you are more than happy to force onto others! In short, Put up or shut up and take your nap

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