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Jeremey
Glittering Dust
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Posted - 2010.03.09 17:07:00 -
[1]
Edited by: Jeremey on 09/03/2010 17:15:28 We cannot be silent any more. We wrote petitions - they were accepted. We filled bugreports - they were successfuly assigned. But CCP still (for at least more than a year already!) haven't fixed three fundamental flaws in game mechanics, which known to many, many pilots.
Here they are: 1) You logoff and after that someone places aggro on you - but you will still disappear after 1 minute. 2) You logoff, login, logoff, login - and appear on a spot not where you was or where you're travelling previously. 3) You click warp to and instantly logoff - no one can scramble you or even lock you.
What does these flaws in game mechanics allow?
1. The (1) allows player, if he have enough effective HP, to escape small-to-medium camps in lowsec and during highsec war, and most of the camps in nullsec if they're without bubbles. Literally, that exploit makes freighter pilot using it almost invincible even without a scout - he will die only if fled to camp of 5+ battleships that can kill him in 1 minute. Also, during highsec war, if you have camping enemy pilot and he jumps to your small camp, he can just logoff on his CNR or Marauder - and to disappear after 1 minute.
2. The (2) exploit allows pilot to escape ANY camp when quitting the system - in high/low/nullsec: pilot warps to other stargate and see on your scanner that there is camp here - so you just double-logoff in warp and appear not in the camp with bubble, but on a safespot. Also it allows pilot to escape in his ship (including capital) any POS blockade - even if entire POS is covered with bubbles, pilot just makes double-logoff (with 15 minute interval after first logoff) and appears on the spot, where he can turn on cloaking device, warp out, etc. Also it allows safely stealing capital ships from enemy POS without a worry about pos disruptors: all you need to bump them with alt out of POS shield and get into them with your main - and logoff. POS even with 15 Large Autocannons will to kill "nude" dread or carrier in 1 minute - so after double logoff you will just appear on the safespot, not near POS.
3. The (3) one makes pilot using it literally uninterceptable in high- and lowsec - regardless of the ship he is piloting (be it noobship, freighter or capital). Nuff said.
Carebears and pvp'ers - unite! Let's make CCP to fix this damned things at last, so we can happily live together in peaceful and good Eve! OH, WAIT...
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De'Veldrin
Minmatar Special Projects Executive The Obsidian Legion
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Posted - 2010.03.09 17:16:00 -
[2]
As soon as you tell me how to tell from the server's perspective the difference between me unplugging my network cable and my internet going down, sure.
I mean sure, we can trap for CTRL-Q or closing the application - of course if I open task manager and just terminate the process none of that code will fire either, so... --Vel
Forum Mom: Spanking the snot out of little brats. |
Jeremey
Glittering Dust
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Posted - 2010.03.09 17:19:00 -
[3]
Originally by: De'Veldrin As soon as you tell me how to tell from the server's perspective the difference between me unplugging my network cable and my internet going down, sure.
I mean sure, we can trap for CTRL-Q or closing the application - of course if I open task manager and just terminate the process none of that code will fire either, so...
When you terminate your process or press Ctrl-Q, all tcp/udp sockets are closed and server notified about that immediately.
Also, no single one of these exploits' fixes requires server to make such distinction.
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Kadesh Priestess
Scalding Chill
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Posted - 2010.03.09 17:32:00 -
[4]
Edited by: Kadesh Priestess on 09/03/2010 17:37:34 1st seems to be considered as game mechanics' feature, not a bug by CCP for numerous years, so i'm inclined to neither support it nor completely disagree with you here.
2nd and 3rd are obvious exploits and hopefully sooner than later will be removed from game.
Originally by: Jeremey Also, no single one of these exploits' fixes requires server to make such distinction.
I'd call such distinction a bad move - it will encourage players to simulate hard disconnect.
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Jeremey
Glittering Dust
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Posted - 2010.03.09 17:45:00 -
[5]
Originally by: Kadesh Priestess I'd call such distinction a bad move - it will encourage players to simulate hard disconnect.
Yes, but again: no fixes for these exploits require server to ever make such distinction.
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Fire77rusland
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Posted - 2010.03.09 18:04:00 -
[6]
)))
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Ephemeron
Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates
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Posted - 2010.03.09 18:23:00 -
[7]
The 3 points in OP are valid and important enough to warrant fixing. I don't see any technical difficulty of fixing them, so it's not that much to ask either. The only issue people may have is ideological one: either you believe in carebearism or hardcore pvp.
I'm afraid the devs have gone soft
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HCMan
The Deliberate Forces
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Posted - 2010.03.09 18:50:00 -
[8]
Yes, i want it
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Fabl0r
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Posted - 2010.03.09 18:53:00 -
[9]
+1 From Russian Community.
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Grarr Dexx
GK inc. Panda Team
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Posted - 2010.03.09 19:10:00 -
[10]
For every one person rescued by the mechanic as it should be, there's a hundred people who use it for safety and personal gain. Nullsec is more safe than empire with this nonsensical 'safety measure'. ___
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Orioniys
The Deliberate Forces
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Posted - 2010.03.09 19:11:00 -
[11]
not supported st1, but 2,3 sounds good
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DolBoxloP
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Posted - 2010.03.09 19:34:00 -
[12]
"Players can logon and logof as they want". We can cry for years.
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Enzu777
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Posted - 2010.03.09 19:48:00 -
[13]
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Jeremey
Glittering Dust
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Posted - 2010.03.09 19:53:00 -
[14]
Edited by: Jeremey on 09/03/2010 19:57:48
Originally by: DolBoxloP "Players can logon and logof as they want". We can cry for years.
Fixing these bugs will not prevent players to logon or logoff anytime they want - just if they logoff in camp their ship will die, as it should be.
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Z800XV
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Posted - 2010.03.09 19:54:00 -
[15]
1 - norm 2 and 3 - signed
2 is so cheating =\
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erewrrtr
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Posted - 2010.03.09 19:56:00 -
[16]
That words of CCP, not myne. I agree, this exploit, rude exploit.
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HeckfyEx
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Posted - 2010.03.09 19:57:00 -
[17]
Plus my voice
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Vizirion
The Deliberate Forces
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Posted - 2010.03.09 20:10:00 -
[18]
Well, that's a hard decision. Signed for 2-3, first 1 is hard to fix.
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Jerreie
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Posted - 2010.03.09 20:13:00 -
[19]
Logging off being a viable way to protect virtual assets is moronic. Thumbs.
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Larkonis Trassler
Genos Occidere Sev3rance
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Posted - 2010.03.09 20:17:00 -
[20]
This was raised by yours truely during CSM 3. I suggested that your login/out spots be 'anchored' in order to prevent 'double loggoffski'. I believe it's being looked into.
Please resize your signature to the maximum file size of 24000 bytes. Zymurgist No. Larkonis |
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Jeremey
Glittering Dust
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Posted - 2010.03.09 20:21:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler This was raised by yours truely during CSM 3. I suggested that your login/out spots be 'anchored' in order to prevent 'double loggoffski'. I believe it's being looked into.
Thank you for information.
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Drake Draconis
Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.03.09 20:45:00 -
[22]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 09/03/2010 20:47:40
Originally by: Jeremey Edited by: Jeremey on 09/03/2010 17:29:58
Originally by: De'Veldrin As soon as you tell me how to tell from the server's perspective the difference between me unplugging my network cable and my internet going down, sure.
I mean sure, we can trap for CTRL-Q or closing the application - of course if I open task manager and just terminate the process none of that code will fire either, so...
When you terminate your process or press Ctrl-Q, all tcp/udp sockets are closed and server notified about that immediately (in case of udp, by special command game sends).
Also, no single one of these exploits' fixes requires server to make such distinction.
*coughbull****cuogh*
yes its a problem but stop making TCP/IP concepts out of thin air mkay?
*case and point... pull the plug on your ethernet cable and we'll see if your server is smart enough to know... nice try nooblet* ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.09 20:49:00 -
[23]
Originally by: Larkonis Trassler This was raised by yours truely during CSM 3. I suggested that your login/out spots be 'anchored' in order to prevent 'double loggoffski'. I believe it's being looked into.
It was actually in the preliminary release notes for dominion iirc. but then got pulled for the final release. pretty strange.
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Jeremey
Glittering Dust
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Posted - 2010.03.09 20:55:00 -
[24]
Originally by: darius mclever It was actually in the preliminary release notes for dominion iirc. but then got pulled for the final release. pretty strange.
One year ago I've filled bugreport about it - currently it is closed with words "Fixed in: Planetary Interaction". So (2) will be fixed in next expansion - Tyrannis.
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Davader
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Posted - 2010.03.09 20:56:00 -
[25]
Edited by: Davader on 09/03/2010 20:56:12 +1, agree with Jeremey
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Chainsaw Plankton
IDLE GUNS IDLE EMPIRE
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Posted - 2010.03.09 21:24:00 -
[26]
logging out should never be an exploit, however abusing logoff to get to an "nth" position that isn't where logoff 1 happened should be an exploit.
also the log out when just about to come out of warp and going ~10000m/s and are invulnerable should also be fixed.
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Lineage2CT1
Ptaag Capital Shipyards RED.OverLord
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Posted - 2010.03.09 21:38:00 -
[27]
Agreed at all. _________________________________________
There is only one correct way - own way. |
Maxsim Goratiev
Gallente Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.03.09 21:48:00 -
[28]
Quote: As soon as you tell me how to tell from the server's perspective the difference between me unplugging my network cable and my internet going down, sure.
QFT
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Red Raider
Caldari Airbourne Demons DeMoN's N AnGeL's
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Posted - 2010.03.09 21:49:00 -
[29]
Agreed for 2 and 3 but 1 is intentional.
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Ephemeron
Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates
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Posted - 2010.03.09 22:03:00 -
[30]
Originally by: Red Raider Agreed for 2 and 3 but 1 is intentional.
It may be intentional but it's still carebear. If the log off timer was 2 minutes, that non-aggro exploit wouldn't be so useful. In most cases when people log right before they are targeted, the attacker needs just 30-60 seconds more to finish the job.
And lets face it, if you log off on purpose to save the ship, you deserve no pity. You must be destroyed.
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