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Akita T
Caldari Navy Volunteer Task Force
336
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Posted - 2011.09.21 13:01:00 -
[31] - Quote
What are you talking about ? It ended almost exactly as I expected it to end.
http://wiki.eveonline.com/en/wiki/Contributor_name:Akita_T#Contributions_link_collection |

RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
25
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 13:53:00 -
[32] - Quote
"Much of the criticism of Incarna vanishes if there had been a successful deployment."
Problem here is a lot of the issues I have brought up in many threads since this all started do not go away if it had been successful.
Worse yet is most of you are only know catching up to what many of us were saying back in june when in launched. Some before it launched.
There are a lot of us that work in the game industry. I for months prior to this going back to the abandonment of FW conference and the lack of substitive content for years I already knew that CCP had corporate mindset kool aid cancer. Ive worked with many companies that have gone down this road.
For me Incarna was just the last straw in their continuing stupidity. Its more then just a communication problem. There is a lot of ego problem in there. |

DeTox MinRohim
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
0
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Posted - 2011.09.21 13:56:00 -
[33] - Quote
Sister Bliss wrote: In the long-term, WiS and Incarna has great promise and could offer untold opportunities for creative ideas to expand the game. However at the moment, the game is so horrendously broken that investment into Incarna at this stage (or rather, with such a huge bias) seems (is) utter folly.
Sums it up. There's a game right now called Eve Online that was about spaceships... you know... the ones IN SPACE!
Walking doodles that are not even capable of lying down on their own couch is NOT "the game". That's the Sims and even in the Sims, you could take a nap. I doubt even Will Wright would've given a "GO" on this simili-sim add-on. |

Miilla
Hulkageddon Orphanage
59
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Posted - 2011.09.21 13:59:00 -
[34] - Quote
How about a no docking, protest?
Just log off in and trade in space.
Even better though, just don't log on for 24 hours. That would really show up in the charts :) |

Tethys Atreides
The Audacity of Huge
42
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Posted - 2011.09.21 14:02:00 -
[35] - Quote
Pablum. |

Mr Kidd
Center for Advanced Studies Gallente Federation
33
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Posted - 2011.09.21 14:03:00 -
[36] - Quote
Akita T wrote:What are you talking about ? It ended almost exactly as I expected it to end.
I thought it needed more cow bell. We want breast augmentations and sluttier clothing in the NeX! |

Simetraz
State War Academy Caldari State
54
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Posted - 2011.09.21 14:12:00 -
[37] - Quote
Well Mittani you are predicable and boring and your article reflects it.
Capitals (Balancing and Roles) |

Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
215
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Posted - 2011.09.21 14:13:00 -
[38] - Quote
The tl;dr of the objections by myself, Bliss and others is this: the resources that were poured into the Incarna project could have been put to much better use elsewhere in the game.
It's evident by now that the whole Incarna project has been managed with appalling incompetence, and now that that incompetence has been exposed and the Emperor unclothed, it's time to divert the maximum possible amount of resources into productive projects that will improve the game experience for the most number of customers.
Historically, whenever CCP have put resources into "FiS" they have seen a steady, even excellent, increase in the number of subscriptions. 10%+ sustained annual growth in a saturated market like the MMOscape is an excellent performance, and that's what CCP were getting, until they decided that "excellent" wasn't good enough and that they needed "awesome" growth.
To illustrate this, if we'd seen 10% annual growth sustained after Apocrypha, we'd be looking at an EVE with ~450k subs right now, and normal daily PCUs peaking into the 55-60k range, touching on 70k at weekends. Instead, we're right back to where we were in Quantum Rise.
I'm not arguing that the Incarna project should be totally abandoned. It's not good business to write off the product of that level of investment, however inefficiently achieved, and I still believe that Incarna can and should eventually have a big part to play in expanding EVE.
But it's evident that the Incarna team management can't usefully utilise the amount of resources they've been getting. Cut them back to 1-2 dev teams; let them learn to walk before they can run; let them produce some solid results that are in proportion to the resources they're allocated. Then we might see about planning for a real Incarna expansion which includes things like multiplayer experience and gameplay. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Large Collidable Object
morons.
219
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Posted - 2011.09.21 14:16:00 -
[39] - Quote
Why am I not surprised to see Mittens lacking the format to admit he was wrong when defending Incarnage? morons-áare recruiting. We're good at breeding! |

RougeOperator
Autocannons Anonymous
25
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Posted - 2011.09.21 14:22:00 -
[40] - Quote
I am mostly just insulted they are saying the things we said in June NOW.
After having shouted down the things we said then.
They are now embracing the dissenters view and acting like they came to those conclusions first.
More can be said and in detail. But the gist of it is enough for this thread. |
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Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
215
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Posted - 2011.09.21 14:28:00 -
[41] - Quote
Large Collidable Object wrote:Why am I not surprised to see Mittens lacking the format to admit he was wrong when defending Incarnage?
A better question is: if the other 3 CQs were in good enough shape to lead mittens to believe that "Incarna owns" back in April, how is it that they're not ready for release 5 months later? Enough work was done on them for CCP to believe that they were all 4 going to be released with Incarna until only a few weeks before the expansion launched. Presumably they must have been nearly ready.
What have the Incarna team been doing in those 5 months that has meant that they can't even release what is basically a reskin of the existing "working" Minmatar CQ?
To put this into perspective: The whole Winter Expansion is scheduled to take less time to develop than the Incarna team have been given to merely finish off reskinning the project that they'd already had well over a year to work on.
Again, this is symptomatic of the whole Incarna project: huge resources spent to produce nothing but excuses. How this standard of delivery can be tolerated in a company with external shareholders is beyond my understanding. Malcanis' Law: Any proposal justified on the basis that "it will benefit new players" is invariably to the greater advantage of older, richer players.
Things to do in EVE:-áhttp://swiftandbitter.com/eve/wtd/ |

Sister Bliss
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
29
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Posted - 2011.09.21 14:32:00 -
[42] - Quote
Malcanis wrote:Large Collidable Object wrote:Why am I not surprised to see Mittens lacking the format to admit he was wrong when defending Incarnage? How this standard of delivery can be tolerated in a company with external shareholders is beyond my understanding.
I think it must be since Sookie Stackhouse is the major shareholder. And she loves ******* vampires!
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AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
5
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Posted - 2011.09.21 14:34:00 -
[43] - Quote
Just saying
illustrates both that you were not there and do not understand what happened.
But then I expected as much from a politician. |

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
33
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 14:53:00 -
[44] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:Just saying illustrates both that you were not there and do not understand what happened. But then I expected as much from a politician.
What, you mean some boob claimed that the leaked document was hard evidence and proof that CCP was going to nickel and dime us to death with non-vanity items at any moment and half the blockheads from the forums went and shot at monuments for three days straight while everyone in local asked wtf was going on and why the hell people were making rainbows outside trade hubs for?
Where where YOU when things like this have happened repeatedly in real life throughout known history and the end result is almost always the same, bunch of doomsayers incite a riot, people burn stuff to the ground, then afterwards no one knows seems to recall what it was all about in the first place.
The fantastical and fictional notion that non-vanity items were right around the corner. Bullocks.
...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
33
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 14:59:00 -
[45] - Quote
I like the article, it's spot on for all the right reasons, including that it is just slightly off enough, and casual, to make its way around the whole room and bring in everyone at once to the table for discussion.
Very deftly written, and a good filter, the truth up front, more between the lines when you look deeper, politically charged enough when you step back to bring out all the doomsayers and shed light on an additional source of consternation: the subscribers themselves.
I am of the opinion that the influx of subscribers we got post Apocrypha, and the subsequent lull in subscribers following it over the next few expansions, was us losing a lot of older more seasoned players, and retaining this new crop of Warcraftians that we have now, who complain about everything, good or bad, with little regard for anything but sensationalism.
...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |

AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 15:05:00 -
[46] - Quote
Mendolus wrote:AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:Just saying illustrates both that you were not there and do not understand what happened. But then I expected as much from a politician. What, you mean some boob claimed that the leaked document was hard evidence and proof that CCP was going to nickel and dime us to death with non-vanity items at any moment and half the blockheads from the forums went and shot at monuments for three days straight while everyone in local asked wtf was going on and why the hell people were making rainbows outside trade hubs for? Where where YOU when things like this have happened repeatedly in real life throughout known history and the end result is almost always the same, bunch of doomsayers incite a riot, people burn stuff to the ground, then afterwards no one knows seems to recall what it was all about in the first place. The fantastical and fictional notion that non-vanity items were right around the corner. Bullocks.
lets look at this logically bro.
Where are you getting your information pertaining to what CCP does and does not intend to introduce? If you use CCP as your source, they said the same think about "gold ammo" as they did about MT.
If you are using conjecture as your source, sobeit.
In either case it does not make the notion "fantastical and fictional".
Please take the time to think about it and answer in all seriousness. Thank you
|

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
33
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 15:12:00 -
[47] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote: lets look at this logically bro.
Where are you getting your information pertaining to what CCP does and does not intend to introduce? If you use CCP as your source, they said the same think about "gold ammo" as they did about MT.
If you are using conjecture as your source, sobeit.
In either case it does not make the notion "fantastical and fictional".
Please take the time to think about it and answer in all seriousness. Thank you
I have, and I am satisfied with the idea that CCP will never introduce permanent non-vanity items that do not require an item exchange (beyond skill boosters, and the like, that have no corollary in the game at present), in order to preserve the integrity of the player driven economy. Otherwise those like me, will be cancelling their subscriptions.
If they introduce gold ammo that requires an exchange of manufactured ammo, akin to the Loyalty Points store, so be it, it will not be game breaking. Everyone in the game will be able to purchase this ammo from the player market with currency from within the game. It will not be a thin air situation.
With each new expansion, CCP's operating and overhead costs increase. Do you see their subscriptions increasing at a substantial enough rate to compensate?
You do the thinking. ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |

AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
5
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 15:22:00 -
[48] - Quote
Mendolus wrote:AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote: lets look at this logically bro.
Where are you getting your information pertaining to what CCP does and does not intend to introduce? If you use CCP as your source, they said the same think about "gold ammo" as they did about MT.
If you are using conjecture as your source, sobeit.
In either case it does not make the notion "fantastical and fictional".
Please take the time to think about it and answer in all seriousness. Thank you
I have, and I am satisfied with the idea that CCP will never introduce permanent non-vanity items that do not require an item exchange (beyond skill boosters, and the like, that have no corollary in the game at present), in order to preserve the integrity of the player driven economy. Otherwise those like me, will be cancelling their subscriptions. If they introduce gold ammo that requires an exchange of manufactured ammo, akin to the Loyalty Points store, so be it, it will not be game breaking. Everyone in the game will be able to purchase this ammo from the player market with currency from within the game. It will not be a thin air situation. With each new expansion, CCP's operating and overhead costs increase. Do you see their subscriptions increasing at a substantial enough rate to compensate? You do the thinking.
I think you deliberately avoided my question.
Quote:Where are you getting your information pertaining to what CCP does and does not intend to introduce?
I did ask quite politely. Thanks again.
|

Rune Star
V0LTA VOLTA Corp
2
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Posted - 2011.09.21 15:24:00 -
[49] - Quote
Grey Stormshadow wrote:It's a good and well written article. Nothing new for us forum addicts, but good summary about the events. Well done :)
Got a little brown on your nose there? |

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
33
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 15:27:00 -
[50] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:I think you deliberately avoided my question. Quote:Where are you getting your information pertaining to what CCP does and does not intend to introduce? I did ask quite politely. Thanks again.
idea noun \-½--êd-ô-+Ö, --êd-ô+Ö also -ê-½-(-î)d-ô-+Ö or -ê-½-d-ô\ Definition of IDEA 1 a : a transcendent entity that is a real pattern of which existing things are imperfect representations b : a standard of perfection : ideal c : a plan for action : design 2 archaic : a visible representation of a conception : a replica of a pattern 3 a obsolete : an image recalled by memory b : an indefinite or unformed conception c : an entity (as a thought, concept, sensation, or image) actually or potentially present to consciousness 4 : a formulated thought or opinion Source
See 4.
...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |
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AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 15:46:00 -
[51] - Quote
So conjecture. Thank you.
Thousands of people that were there had the IDEA (in fact also based on their conjecture) that CCP was going to either introduced gold ammo, introduce items that bypassed industrialists (beyond clothing), or both.
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Grey Stormshadow
Starwreck Industries
116
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 15:59:00 -
[52] - Quote
Rune Star wrote:Grey Stormshadow wrote:It's a good and well written article. Nothing new for us forum addicts, but good summary about the events. Well done :) Got a little brown on your nose there? On old age life has taught that only young and restless are desperate enough to dig their fortune from that end. With age comes the courage to speak the truth even it would sound like it is coming out from speakers butt.
Short answer: no Forum fix for firefox and chrome Get working images and colored text Classic forum style 2.25final |

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
33
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 16:02:00 -
[53] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:So conjecture. Thank you.
Thousands of people that were there had the IDEA (in fact also based on their conjecture) that CCP was going to either introduced gold ammo, introduce items that bypassed industrialists (beyond clothing), or both.
Based on hysteria more than logical conjecture you mean.
CCP introducing a way for anyone with sufficient real life money to buy out the mineral index and literally bottom out the player driven market in the process? Hardly.
...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |

AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
6
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 16:24:00 -
[54] - Quote
Mendolus wrote:AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:So conjecture. Thank you.
Thousands of people that were there had the IDEA (in fact also based on their conjecture) that CCP was going to either introduced gold ammo, introduce items that bypassed industrialists (beyond clothing), or both.
Based on hysteria more than logical conjecture you mean. CCP introducing a way for anyone with sufficient real life money to buy out the mineral index and literally bottom out the player driven market in the process? Hardly.
And revolting because of the introduction of microtransactions is logical as opposed hysterical. Sounds rather biased to me.
The point being (my first post in this thread) that if you honestly think everyone was 'revolting over monocles', you really don't understand the situation. That's all. But again, I don't think may people share that perspective,
I get the very strong "idea" that it's more "political" in this case in point. |

Tobias Sjodin
Habitual Euthanasia Pandemic Legion
25
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Posted - 2011.09.21 16:36:00 -
[55] - Quote
I am glad that your word fluff impresses people. |

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
33
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 16:38:00 -
[56] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote: And revolting because of the introduction of microtransactions is logical as opposed hysterical. Sounds rather biased to me.
The point being (my first post in this thread) that if you honestly think everyone was 'revolting over monocles', you really don't understand the situation. That's all. But again, I don't think may people share that perspective,
I get the very strong "idea" that it's more "political" in this case in point.
And you taking his term to mean he is implying that the riots were solely attributed to Monocles in their entirety, is convenient and contextual.
Just because they call it Times Square does not mean there are clocks lined up along the street, neither is calling it the Monocle Riots an indication that Monocles in and of themselves are the sole proprietor of discontent.
You come up with a name for the riots, and let me poke at it.
Microtransaction Riots? No. Non-Vanity Industrial Circumvention Riots? No.
Need I continue?
In fact, a lot of people were clamoring in Amarr local for CCP to 'take their Monocles' back as it were, so who really understood what the riots were about at their core, is even up for debate to begin wtih.
I was there.
...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |

AFKCloaked AltSpy
MasterMined Technologies
7
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 16:54:00 -
[57] - Quote
Mendolus wrote:AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote: And revolting because of the introduction of microtransactions is logical as opposed hysterical. Sounds rather biased to me.
The point being (my first post in this thread) that if you honestly think everyone was 'revolting over monocles', you really don't understand the situation. That's all. But again, I don't think may people share that perspective,
I get the very strong "idea" that it's more "political" in this case in point.
And you taking his term to mean he is implying that the riots were solely attributed to Monocles in their entirety, is convenient and contextual. Just because they call it Times Square does not mean there are clocks lined up along the street, neither is calling it the Monocle Riots an indication that Monocles in and of themselves are the sole proprietor of discontent. You come up with a name for the riots, and let me poke at it. Microtransaction Riots? No. Non-Vanity Industrial Circumvention Riots? No. Need I continue? In fact, a lot of people were clamoring in Amarr local for CCP to 'take their Monocles' back as it were, so who really understood what the riots were about at their core, is even up for debate to begin wtih. I was there.
How about "riots"? That would be a way to describe it literally and without bias. Which many people are not interested in.
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Tethys Atreides
The Audacity of Huge
43
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 16:58:00 -
[58] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:How about "riots"? That would be a way to describe it literally and without bias. Which many people are not interested in.
Or Jita Riots, which is what anybody who actually still plays the game refers to them as... |

Mendolus
Aurelius Federation
34
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 17:00:00 -
[59] - Quote
AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote: How about "riots"? That would be a way to describe it literally and without bias. Which many people are not interested in.
Yes, but then we might have the same problem on the opposite end, too broad...
I sat in local Amarr every night all weekend while the riots were going on, people were copypasta the phrases about CCP taking their monocles back the whole time almost.
I think he did right naming it Monocle Riots even if the term does not lend itself credence to the real issue at the core of the riots, the notion of non-vanity items that would destroy the player driven economy if released.
Something like Trade Hub Riots, Monument Rebellion, Statuegate, Monumentgate, etc. might also be appropriately snappy but refined to only the actual incidents in question, rather than just blanketing a term that could mean just about anything to anyone, i.e. Riots, Incarna Riots, Riots of '11, etc.
Personally I like Monocle Riots, none of the other possibilities are nearly as snappy, memorable, nor easily transposed as symbolic or iconoclastic from a linguistic point of view.
Tethys Atreides wrote:AFKCloaked AltSpy wrote:How about "riots"? That would be a way to describe it literally and without bias. Which many people are not interested in.
Or Jita Riots, which is what anybody who actually still plays the game refers to them as...
Indeed, Jita Riots would be better than Monocle Riots, even though the riots were occuring at three (?) major trade hubs that I know of (two of which I personally spent time in), it would fit to name them the Jita Riots, I went there myself but only stayed for an hour or so because I did not want to melt my card, lol...
Monocle Riots would age better over time though, given the short term memory a lot of newer players seem to have concerning the game, those that assume the game started when they did, so to speak. ...clearly the Ishukone Watch Scorpion is the fifth horseman of the Apocalypse, i.e. the Brown Rider, otherwise known as Poopie. |

Psychophantic
30
|
Posted - 2011.09.21 17:16:00 -
[60] - Quote
Monocle riots is fitting.
Refers to the period, Incarna when monocles were released.
Refers to a small factor in why people were rioting.
Doesn't refer to a specific location to the exclusion of others. |
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