| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Gambit11B
   |
Posted - 2010.03.09 21:18:00 -
[1]
I really dont see much of a difference.. HAM have faster rate of fire + Higher explosion velocity and radius... and Hvy Missiles have more damage and farther reach. But which would be better for swating frigs, cruisers or BCs. Either of the 2 could easily be riged or weapon upgraded to almost the same stats as the other..
Am I missing somthing??
|
Madmi CEO
Mad Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.03.09 21:23:00 -
[2]
Easy answer would be:
Heavy Missiles: Very long range, good damage
Heavy Assault Missiles: Medium range, very good damage
As for swatting frigs, it's a bit more complicated. You have the choice of two different kinds of T2 missiles for both the HAM and HM launchers - on top of that it's often also a good idea to use simple T1 missiles (for swatting frigs). You should try to fit two ships in EFT - one with HM and one with HAM - and then show the damage profile for attacks against a frigate. It will show you graphs and everything, even including any target painters / webbers you may have fitted.
|
Gambit11B
|
Posted - 2010.03.09 21:25:00 -
[3]
I must have a old version of EFT cause mine doesnt tell me any kinda of damage statistics cept dps and volley damage.
|
Apoctasy
The Python Cartel.
The Jerk Cartel
|
Posted - 2010.03.09 21:38:00 -
[4]
Heavy Aassault with Javelins and a web + TP is best way to kill frigs.
______________________________
 Originally by: CCP Zymurgist
Please continue to... do what C&P is great for... Heck pod everyone you pirates, Get off the forums and go kill someone!
|
Proxyyyy
Caldari
The Tuskers
|
Posted - 2010.03.09 22:02:00 -
[5]
Web + Heavy missiles + Drones are better for swatting frigates. Also a small neut goes along way...
|
Siigari Kitawa
Gallente
The Aduro Protocol
Talon Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.03.09 22:20:00 -
[6]
Screw heavies. Use assaults.
|
Madmi CEO
Mad Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.03.09 22:29:00 -
[7]
Originally by: Gambit11B
I must have a old version of EFT cause mine doesnt tell me any kinda of damage statistics cept dps and volley damage.
Just right click the module and select "Show Charge Info".
|
Deva Blackfire
LOST IDEA
C0VEN
|
Posted - 2010.03.09 22:31:00 -
[8]
Originally by: Apoctasy
Heavy Aassault with Javelins and a web + TP is best way to kill frigs.
As far as i remember javs dont get any additional stats over normal missiles that help in killing frigs. So in that case its best to use CN missiles.
|
Kail Storm
Caldari
|
Posted - 2010.03.09 23:49:00 -
[9]
Best "Tracking" properly known as sig radius and explosive velocity, HML`s whoop hams pretty good, considering there is a whole skill that boosts them that the Ham`s dont get.
Overall I like Hm`s alot more, way more range, way better DMG to smaller ships [even does good dmg without web] and you only lose a small portion of DPS
HML Drake=450-500@80km and hits frigs for 1/4 DMG
HAM Drake=500-550@22ishkm and hits frigs for 1/8th DMG
Alot of peeps say Solo use Hams and Groups use HM but I have found it to be opposite for me, when I have tackle support I want as much DPS as possible and I like getting close to fight in the "Whirlwind of ships" and It means you have other ships to kill the frigs who you cant hit well. I have notticed in groups I usually fly with Blaster/AC guys in close.
Where as with Hm`s I like to dictate range and often get guys chasing me while they are getting into range, its a big boost to overall dmg.
Also I have found that SOLOing a Ham drake I am often swapping to Jav`s and losing volleys while I am trying to maintain range on faster ships...With Hm`s its kinf of fire and forget even with T2 Scourges I have 55km at least.
TL;DR
Solo I love HM`s alot more flexability and more Overall DMG while closing ranges, also never lose volleys to range or never have to reload to Javs. Also I never worry about getting tackled and hopelessly waiting till there gang arrives.
Group with Tackle support I use HAMS since I can rely on Anti-Frig, and I can travel just outside of my Blasters/AC guys and get in the thick of things but usually can be at just beyond falloff against enemy "CLose range guys"
--------------------------------------------------
"If Eve Was P*rn, It would be a Snuff film, First you get screwed then you get killed"
-Me
|
Baron Agamemnon
Caldari
Holy Grail Construction
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 08:20:00 -
[10]
I love HAMs! Great damage on my drake, ok range for a short range weapon, and just win all around.
However, not a tool for every job, and not all ships can really beenfit from HAMs. I mostly use them on my Drake. Cara, Cerb, NCara got too little grid to really use HAMs effectively imo. NOsprey is just...
HM is nice as well, I perfer these (even on my Drake) in bigger gangs of 5+.
All inn all HM is probartly the best frig killer, and HAM will kill the rest.
---
"And thus, another of the world's dreamers died, taking his dreams with him. Just as John Lennon wanted world peace, Gerald Bull simply wanted a gun big enough to fire **** into space." |
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 10:37:00 -
[11]
I see no reason to use hams, they requer too much pg/cpu ,so if you want to fit up on caldari missile ships you need most of the time a fitting mod which takes the place of a bcu ,so you get the same dps as the hml fit ,but lower range ,completly pointless. Only the drake can fit it up well,but it is slow and no range bonus --> only usefull if you land on your opponent-->hml fit is better.
|
Baron Agamemnon
Caldari
Holy Grail Construction
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 13:05:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
I see no reason to use hams, they requer too much pg/cpu ,so if you want to fit up on caldari missile ships you need most of the time a fitting mod which takes the place of a bcu ,so you get the same dps as the hml fit ,but lower range ,completly pointless. Only the drake can fit it up well,but it is slow and no range bonus --> only usefull if you land on your opponent-->hml fit is better.
Not true at all.
A proper HAM Drake got MWD (and its not particularly slower then other BCs, save the nano Cane), and really can be flown the same way as any other close range BC out there. To really take advantage of it, use a friend in a tackle ship and you are even better off (tho solo works well). HAM also use less cpu then HM. And I use 3 BCU on my HAM Drake, no reason not to, and no need to use a fitting mod even if you run a DC II.
Caracal and Co is HM tho, way too little grid.
As for only the Drake using HAMs, well, I agree. (the Tengu uses them nicely as well btw) And its a fairly low rank skill to get to 5 and well worth it if you plan on using a Drake more tehn once. So stating that HAM is not worth it even on a Drake is kinda bs. 
---
"And thus, another of the world's dreamers died, taking his dreams with him. Just as John Lennon wanted world peace, Gerald Bull simply wanted a gun big enough to fire **** into space." |
Dr Fighter
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 13:10:00 -
[13]
Edited by: Dr Fighter on 10/03/2010 13:16:13
HAMs are still messed up imo.
unlike torps which hammer BS just nicly with their 80% extra dps over cruise, HAMs do just 25% more damage over HMLs.
This isnt directly the problem, the problem is the difference in sig rad/exp vel ratio to the dps. Torps use their huge dps advantage to overcome their poor abilty to hit smaller faster ships, and thus remain popular throughout pvp and pve, HAMs on the other hand no not have that dps advatage and so a far greater proportion of players will choose the far more versitle HMLs - unless a specific HAM bonus is active on the ship.
The smaller ships using HAMs and rockets need better "tracking" like short range guns get over long range guns, the dps could be upped by 50% instead, but i think better sig/exp vel suits shorter faster ranged combat rather than 'mini torps' doing alot of dmg to small ships with dual webs/tps.
Rockets also share this imballance, without the extra dps and accuracy theres little reason to cripple your range.
|
Madmi CEO
Mad Mining Inc.
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 13:16:00 -
[14]
Dr Fighter tells the truth!
|
Carniflex
StarHunt
Systematic-Chaos
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 13:27:00 -
[15]
For frigs I prefer assault launchers - they shoot light missiles with pretty fast rof.
|
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 13:44:00 -
[16]
Originally by: Carniflex
For frigs I prefer assault launchers - they shoot light missiles with pretty fast rof.
Especially as your ship still has enough pg/cpu for a nice tank/other modules.
Dr Fighter wrote why I think hams are pointless to use,the + dps over hmls just isnt enough to justify the shorter range,and worse "tracking".
|
Reem Fairchild
Minmatar
Punic Corp.
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 14:21:00 -
[17]
Originally by: Naomi Knight
Originally by: Carniflex
For frigs I prefer assault launchers - they shoot light missiles with pretty fast rof.
Especially as your ship still has enough pg/cpu for a nice tank/other modules.
Dr Fighter wrote why I think hams are pointless to use,the + dps over hmls just isnt enough to justify the shorter range,and worse "tracking".
This might be true for most ships, except a Drake used for solo or small gang pvp combat. In those situations, the shorter range is usually not be an issue. I've played around a lot with the fittings for both types of Drakes, and I just can't get a HM Drake that is strong enough in other areas, compared to my HAM Drake fit, to justify the reduced DPS.
-----
'In Eve, as in real life, if you are bored it's your own fault.' |
Baron Agamemnon
Caldari
Holy Grail Construction
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 14:32:00 -
[18]
Edited by: Baron Agamemnon on 10/03/2010 14:32:01
Originally by: Dr Fighter
Edited by: Dr Fighter on 10/03/2010 13:16:13
HAMs are still messed up imo.
unlike torps which hammer BS just nicly with their 80% extra dps over cruise, HAMs do just 25% more damage over HMLs.
This isnt directly the problem, the problem is the difference in sig rad/exp vel ratio to the dps. Torps use their huge dps advantage to overcome their poor abilty to hit smaller faster ships, and thus remain popular throughout pvp and pve, HAMs on the other hand no not have that dps advatage and so a far greater proportion of players will choose the far more versitle HMLs - unless a specific HAM bonus is active on the ship.
The smaller ships using HAMs and rockets need better "tracking" like short range guns get over long range guns, the dps could be upped by 50% instead, but i think better sig/exp vel suits shorter faster ranged combat rather than 'mini torps' doing alot of dmg to small ships with dual webs/tps.
Rockets also share this imballance, without the extra dps and accuracy theres little reason to cripple your range.
Rockes just plain suck 
I think letting all missiles, not just guided take advantage of the 'guided missile skill' (change the skill name) would go some way towards making them more useful in general.
But comparing HAM/HM to Cruise/Trops is not such a good idea since Cruise Missile kind of lack a place in EVE save for missions atm. They are not useful in sniping BS gangs, and imo perfomr poorly dps wise in PVP since I can do better with a smaller ship.
Imo, HAM/HM is the "standard" for missile balance, while frig sized missile and BS sized need to be changed. (Torps are ok tho)
---
"And thus, another of the world's dreamers died, taking his dreams with him. Just as John Lennon wanted world peace, Gerald Bull simply wanted a gun big enough to fire **** into space." |
Dr Fighter
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 14:32:00 -
[19]
often you need to fit a reactor or pdu to get a similar fit with HAM over HML on teh drake, which if oyu use a bcu on the HML fit instead of that fitting mod you get an even narrower dps gap.
being able to hit falcons is very very handy :)
|
TraininVain
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 14:34:00 -
[20]
Edited by: TraininVain on 10/03/2010 14:35:57
When I tackle a ship and find the pilot brought HAMs instead of a neut I relax because it's a free kill. Just saying.
The explosion velocity and range really **** em over for shooting frigs or anything quick.
By contrast HMLs still have a fair amount of damage even after mitigation and have much longer range.
|
Dr Fighter
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 14:42:00 -
[21]
Originally by: Baron Agamemnon
text
i was only comparing them to illistrate the general thoguht toward the missile classes, showing why torps are so popular where HAMs are the exact opposite.
|
Indeterminacy
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 15:32:00 -
[22]
I've found fairly consistent success with HAMs over HMLs. I'll opt for HAMs in smaller gangs where mobility and more dps on short notice is more important. I'll chose HMLs in larger gangs where being able to fire on the called target (on the other side of teh blob) is important.
Yes HAMs will required a PDU or even a RCU. But if you can train up enough Adv Weapon upgrades to keep that to a PDU, it will buff your tank/cap as well a bit.
Nearly always get the final blow when running HAMs.
|
Gypsio III
Dirty Filthy Perverts
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 17:08:00 -
[23]
Don't drop the third BCS on your HAM Drake, drop one HAML to a HML instead. You get more DPS like this.
HAMs and HMs are actually fairly similar in their performance against frigates when they hit. The key there is "hit" and the range issues implicit.
Projecting DPS to Falcon range is a very useful ability.
|
Naomi Knight
Amarr
Imperial Academy
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 17:18:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Gypsio III
Don't drop the third BCS on your HAM Drake, drop one HAML to a HML instead. You get more DPS like this.
HAMs and HMs are actually fairly similar in their performance against frigates when they hit. The key there is "hit" and the range issues implicit.
Projecting DPS to Falcon range is a very useful ability.
Not bad idea ,but bringing different ammos makes me QQ :(
|
Raniss
|
Posted - 2010.03.10 19:00:00 -
[25]
Originally by: Dr Fighter
Edited by: Dr Fighter on 10/03/2010 14:45:24
often you need to fit a reactor or pdu to get a similar fit with HAM over HML on teh drake, which if oyu use a bcu on the HML fit instead of that fitting mod you get an even narrower dps gap.
drake with 3x bcu drones and HMLs is ~500, fit with hams and 2 bcus ~550. 50 dps diff for 3 times less range and ~30% less 'tracking'.
being able to hit falcons is very very handy :)
Not even mentioning HM ahve the nice niche of fof's, wich are pretty handy if you know how they work...
|
Dusica
|
Posted - 2010.03.11 05:38:00 -
[26]
Generally i love HAMs more... HM have its uses in PVP but HAM has more focused role of pure dps :P , ham use more grid and hm use more cpu , hm goes up to 75km and ham usually operates under warp disrutpro range ¼18kms ...
|
rumncock
|
Posted - 2010.03.11 11:25:00 -
[27]
For smaller ships and solo work, heavy missiles ofcourse.
|
Lugalzagezi666
|
Posted - 2010.03.11 11:39:00 -
[28]
Originally by: rumn****
solo work, heavy missiles ofcourse.
Yes, ofc...
|
Dark Lightening
|
Posted - 2010.03.11 22:35:00 -
[29]
Edited by: Dark Lightening on 11/03/2010 22:40:24
Heavies:
1) Good damage
2) long range
3) Guided missile, so takes advantage of skills used for hitting smaller targets
4) T2 precision missiles available specifically for hitting frigates
HAMs:
1) Excellent damage
2) Very close range unless using special T2 long range ammo, but still won't match Heavies
3) Unguided missile, so missile skills trained to increase damage to smaller targets do not apply to HAMs
4) No T2 precision anti-frig ammo variant.
So basically, Heavies are a more general use weapon. They are good for use from close range out to over 100km on some ships, and can do well against ships from frigates on up. HAMs on the other hand are for fighting right up in someone's face, with extra damage against large targets compared to Heavies, but with terribad performance on smaller/fast moving targets.
I generally fit Heavies over HAMs due to the range restrictions on HAMs specifically. I find I actually put more damage on the target by being able to hit immediately, than having to wait to close within range of HAMs before dumping their superior DPS. The delay of microwarping even just 10KM to get into range can mean an additional 2-3 vollies from your Heavies before HAMs can even engage, and targets are often dead within that time frame.
|
Asuka Smith
Gallente
Noir.
|
Posted - 2010.03.11 23:22:00 -
[30]
If you plan to fit a load of BCUs then assaults are better. If you plan to only fit one BCU then heavies are better. Heavies have like 300-400% range, and only 20% less DPS.
|
| |
|
| Pages: [1] 2 :: one page |
| First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |