Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
|
Author |
Thread Statistics | Show CCP posts - 0 post(s) |
Matting
NQX Innovations
|
Posted - 2010.03.18 00:55:00 -
[31]
I would prefer an older player dying and because of the cost going straight back into battle with a new ship they already have ready to go (which generally carrys a heavier cost than the clone and helps industry) then to just go ohh well can't justify another clone tonight I'll log. Because of the fun of fighting you can justify spending more time to get more ships but justifying time for just a clone which doesn't directly relate to fun is a lot harder (IMO).
Its about getting MORE PVP from a game that is about PVP and making it more attractive to undock in a game where people are already too safe. The clone cost for a loss isn't really that much UNTIL you get to the higher levels and it blows out to ridiculous costs. For those who say we want free PVP what about the ship, mods and any implants? This I get to choose at the time what I'm willing to risk. Not I NEED a 75M SP clone because I don't want to see the past x years gone to waste in training and paying for this game. I don't want EVE to be risk free its the whole reason why EVE gives you such a good buzz when PVPing and why its different from so many other games.
On that note ITS A GAME, not everyone gets to play heaps and its supposed to be fun with a good balance between risk vs reward. Its also an RP game and saying I should be forced to use an alt because of my age doesn't work well on me. If CCP stated this was the punishment for being a long paying customer and I should stop training my character then I would stop paying my account for those busy periods in life where I'm not playing much. I'm not sure CCP really like the idea of stopping people from progressing as that in some cases is the only reason why they are still around.
Also how does being old mean they should be flying expensive ships? I think most that fly expensive ships do it because they are rich and flying anything less doesn't give them that buzz anymore as its too easy for them to replace. This can be for someone quite young though if they got lucky, are good at market stuff or even just have lots of time to make money. Being able to only play a few hours a week gives very different perspective than being able to play everyday for a few+ hours.
It seems a few here also seem to think anyone taking risks is doing it wrong and I know some people think if its a fair fight your doing it wrong. Just because you die doesn't mean your being stupid or even risky sometimes it can mean you were unlucky or need more friends (yeah everyone likes more blobs). Don't we want more risky behavior not less?
Sorry I got a bit rumbly there.
Also this thread is different to my proposal thread which I gave examples on what I could see it being. This turned out to be a bad idea as everyone thought it was concrete and no one gave suggestions on how to improve it. Just proposing a change to make the high end not so expensive at least gives personal interpretation and CCP can do the same if they feel its important enough.
Can only support the topic once? Doesn't this give the replies to support ratio a false indication if there is ANY discussion?
And now I have to wait 5 minutes even though I couldn't post anyway!! ARHHH THIS FORUM IS ****
|
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
|
Posted - 2010.03.18 02:08:00 -
[32]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Dr. Whinesmith - Eever hear of flying smart? Prudence? Being a good steward?
Listened to yourself much?
Any reason why you feel compeled to always be on the negative side of any and all issues?
Do you even PvP?
Quote:
1: Rat 2: Rat 3: Rat
I don't grind. I'm not interested in collecting rat tails for the store keeper. I have enough isk.
I don't see the reason for clones locking high SP subscribers out of small ships.
Matting is correct, many times on ts/vent I have heard people say "oh well can't justify yet another clone tonight, cyas"
Get over yourself Drake, you are not "all that".
|
Hack Harrison
|
Posted - 2010.03.18 03:01:00 -
[33]
Seems a reasonable request. Want this fixed for when I get to those insance number in 5-6 years
|
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
|
Posted - 2010.03.18 03:35:00 -
[34]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Dr. Whinesmith - Eever hear of flying smart? Prudence? Being a good steward?
Listened to yourself much?
Any reason why you feel compeled to always be on the negative side of any and all issues?
Do you even PvP?
Quote:
1: Rat 2: Rat 3: Rat
I don't grind. I'm not interested in collecting rat tails for the store keeper. I have enough isk.
I don't see the reason for clones locking high SP subscribers out of small ships.
Matting is correct, many times on ts/vent I have heard people say "oh well can't justify yet another clone tonight, cyas"
Get over yourself Drake, you are not "all that".
Stop whining Dr. Whinesmith. You'll live longer for it. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
|
Posted - 2010.03.18 04:03:00 -
[35]
Originally by: Drake Draconis Stop whining Dr. Whinesmith. You'll live longer for it.
Pathetic.
|
Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari Perkone
|
Posted - 2010.03.18 04:14:00 -
[36]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Stop whining Dr. Whinesmith. You'll live longer for it.
I almost want to say thanks for the bump but seriously, if you can't at least post something constructive stfu
|
Neutrino Sunset
Bene Gesserit ChapterHouse Tread Alliance
|
Posted - 2010.03.18 06:09:00 -
[37]
Supported.
I can't think of a good reason why high skilled players should be restricted from engaging in PvP as easily as everyone else can, due to having to spent so much time working to generate enough income to even afford the clones, as some guys here seem to think they should.
That approach is dictating playstyle to others which sucks. If I want to PvP I don't see why I should have to spend 5 times as much time ratting or working on industry to afford it as anyone else.
|
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.03.18 10:06:00 -
[38]
Edited by: Malcanis on 18/03/2010 10:07:35 Strongly opposed. Clone costs are one of the advantages newer players hold over older players. Older players are supposed to be able to compensate for higher clone costs with greater player experience and the advantages of better character skills. In any case, the absolute cost of clones is not actually very high.
If the OP feels that his clone costs are too high, he can always create a new character for low-SP activities.
EVE is supposed to be a PvP game with a harsh death penalty. Clone costs are part of that penalty
|
Creed Demastikus
House of Demastikus
|
Posted - 2010.03.18 12:24:00 -
[39]
Supported
|
adriaans
Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
|
Posted - 2010.03.18 23:31:00 -
[40]
Supported because paying 30 mill per clone without counting implants is ridiculous. |
|
Ephemeron
Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates
|
Posted - 2010.03.19 00:21:00 -
[41]
Originally by: adriaans Supported because paying 30 mill per clone without counting implants is ridiculous.
Nobody forces you to train sp without stop. If you don't NEED all those skills to fly cheap crap, why do you keep training? How about training your alt to reasonable level instead?
Just because many people are lazy and stupid (don't realize the choices they have) doesn't mean CCP should keep dumbing down the game for them.
EVE is one game where the stupid actually fail, and forced to quit. CCP already made a lot of cuts and simplifications to gameplay, as a result the average intelligence of EVE online community has dropped significantly - as anyone who played from 2004 can confirm. Lets keep the average intelligence above 4chan level. |
adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
|
Posted - 2010.03.19 03:05:00 -
[42]
Edited by: adriaans on 19/03/2010 03:06:11
Originally by: Ephemeron
Originally by: adriaans Supported because paying 30 mill per clone without counting implants is ridiculous.
Nobody forces you to train sp without stop. If you don't NEED all those skills to fly cheap crap, why do you keep training? How about training your alt to reasonable level instead?
Just because many people are lazy and stupid (don't realize the choices they have) doesn't mean CCP should keep dumbing down the game for them.
EVE is one game where the stupid actually fail, and forced to quit. CCP already made a lot of cuts and simplifications to gameplay, as a result the average intelligence of EVE online community has dropped significantly - as anyone who played from 2004 can confirm. Lets keep the average intelligence above 4chan level.
because i want to fly the expensive stuff to, i fly everything sub capital (from frigs to deadspace fit pirate ship in pvp) and have NO intentions of training capital skills ever, and im STILL far from flying everything sub cap.
and i have alts, 9 of them in fact, whereof 5 of them have clone costs (before implants) at 20m+....
also pointing out again, NONE of them have capital skills.
why the heck should i have to grind for at least an hour just to replace my clone unimplanted because i want to go roam in 0.0 in a frig/cruiser? Or 2-3 hours if i dual/triple account... at that rate it is CHEAPER to dual/triple account with t2 fit BATTLESHIPS in low-sec...
seriously, unless this gets changed, im going back to exclusive low sec pvp. ccp wants more people in 0.0 <- see what increasing clone costs do? exactly the opposite.
also, how is more pvp'ing instead of grinding bad? |
Ephemeron
Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates
|
Posted - 2010.03.19 03:47:00 -
[43]
Quote: also, how is more pvp'ing instead of grinding bad?
Counter Strike has more pvp than in EVE. You want Counter Strike in space?
Maybe besides the free clones, you want free ships and insta spawn in new equipped shipped? why market grind when we could have more pvp if we simply spawned in system of death with new ship with same fittings? we'd have tons of pvp then!
Or perhaps what makes EVE pvp so special is because losing stuff actually hurts people? |
Matting
NQX Innovations
|
Posted - 2010.03.19 04:34:00 -
[44]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Quote: also, how is more pvp'ing instead of grinding bad?
Maybe besides the free clones, you want free ships and insta spawn in new equipped shipped?
Sorry where in any of the discussion about clone costs has there been mention of free clones apart from those against the idea?
No one is asking for free clones just a re-balancing of their costs. |
Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari Perkone
|
Posted - 2010.03.19 07:15:00 -
[45]
Originally by: Matting
Originally by: Ephemeron Maybe besides the free clones, you want free ships and insta spawn in new equipped shipped?
Sorry where in any of the discussion about clone costs has there been mention of free clones apart from those against the idea?
No one is asking for free clones just a re-balancing of their costs.
he does that. a lot
for many, suggesting an adjustment to the rate clone costs increase is equivalent to giving everyone a ~ cmd prompt option and a list of cheat codes. |
Bloodwolf
M.A.R.S. Enterprises
|
Posted - 2010.03.19 12:09:00 -
[46]
I think that a change is needed is a no brainer..
I can understand the fear of making the game easier which should by no means happen. But the problem with the clone cost is merely a undesireable use of a money sink which restricts gameplay options. The real benefit of a high sp character is its versatility. This reduction in versatility is surely not intentional. This will not make the game easier in any way or even have a strong impact on the wallet of the older players. But it will result in more active gameplay.
How to adress the problem is something that should be discussed as well.. but i guess it would be helpful to know that the devs are actually willing to change this cost distribution in some way.
This problem will become even more apparent in the future. It is only a matter of time before it gets dealt with in one way or another. |
Malcanis
Vanishing Point. The Initiative.
|
Posted - 2010.03.19 12:38:00 -
[47]
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Dr. Whinesmith - Eever hear of flying smart? Prudence? Being a good steward?
Listened to yourself much?
Any reason why you feel compeled to always be on the negative side of any and all issues?
Do you even PvP?
Quote:
1: Rat 2: Rat 3: Rat
I don't grind. I'm not interested in collecting rat tails for the store keeper. I have enough isk.
I don't see the reason for clones locking high SP subscribers out of small ships.
Matting is correct, many times on ts/vent I have heard people say "oh well can't justify yet another clone tonight, cyas"
Get over yourself Drake, you are not "all that".
I have never, ever heard that on Vent. I cant believe that any PvPer would ever say that.
And I certainly PVP. And 95% of the PvP that I do is in 0.0. In the last year, pod losess have cost me, let's see something like 300 million ISK. And I'm not even very good at PvP. I just pay attention and - whenever possible - stay aligned. If I lose a ship, I spam the warp button. My pod usually gets out. That's all there is too it.
I get my ISK from ratting and missioning. No mighty trade empires or POS chains for me. I'm too lazy and not really smart enough to do stuff like that. And yet - somehow - I manage to find the ~600k a day that getting podded costs me. |
Franga
NQX Innovations
|
Posted - 2010.03.19 13:06:00 -
[48]
Supported.
Always entertaining to see Drake Draconis in these thread posting about PVP and clone loss. |
Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
|
Posted - 2010.03.19 14:21:00 -
[49]
Originally by: Malcanis
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
I don't grind. I'm not interested in collecting rat tails for the store keeper. I have enough isk.
I don't see the reason for clones locking high SP subscribers out of small ships.
Matting is correct, many times on ts/vent I have heard people say "oh well can't justify yet another clone tonight, cyas"
Get over yourself Drake, you are not "all that".
I have never, ever heard that on Vent. I cant believe that any PvPer would ever say that.
And I certainly PVP. And 95% of the PvP that I do is in 0.0. In the last year, pod losess have cost me, let's see something like 300 million ISK. And I'm not even very good at PvP. I just pay attention and - whenever possible - stay aligned. If I lose a ship, I spam the warp button. My pod usually gets out. That's all there is too it.
I get my ISK from ratting and missioning. No mighty trade empires or POS chains for me. I'm too lazy and not really smart enough to do stuff like that. And yet - somehow - I manage to find the ~600k a day that getting podded costs me.
Even Malcanis agrees Dr. Whinesmith.
And I don't like his stance on eve economics... irony.
This goes for all of you.... when it gets right down to it... your just too damn lazy to keep watch over your wallets.
This game is spreading lazyness like a cancer. |
adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
|
Posted - 2010.03.19 14:39:00 -
[50]
Originally by: Ephemeron
Quote: also, how is more pvp'ing instead of grinding bad?
Counter Strike has more pvp than in EVE. You want Counter Strike in space?
Maybe besides the free clones, you want free ships and insta spawn in new equipped shipped? why market grind when we could have more pvp if we simply spawned in system of death with new ship with same fittings? we'd have tons of pvp then!
Or perhaps what makes EVE pvp so special is because losing stuff actually hurts people?
BALANCING clone costs is hardly going to be counter strike in space... just instead of 1 cruiser you can now use maybe 2-3, making people much more satisfied over their night of pvp'ing.
THERE IS NO ONE SAYING CLONES SHOULD BE FREE!
''Or perhaps what makes EVE pvp so special is because losing stuff actually hurts people?''
STUFF/SHIPS, NOT making old players not able to have some nights of cheap fun every now and then when we're tired of flying bigger stuff. |
|
Captain Bevier
Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
|
Posted - 2010.03.19 14:44:00 -
[51]
I support this idea
(and i agree with everything adriaans has said :P ) |
Florio
Blue Republic
|
Posted - 2010.03.19 20:57:00 -
[52]
Supported. Unfair to casual gamers. |
Drykor
Aperture Harmonics K162
|
Posted - 2010.03.20 13:44:00 -
[53]
Supported
|
Marquis d'Carabas
|
Posted - 2010.03.20 15:18:00 -
[54]
|
Mr Hellcat
|
Posted - 2010.03.20 22:48:00 -
[55]
Support.
|
Ephemeron
Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates
|
Posted - 2010.03.20 23:27:00 -
[56]
This game should NOT become just another casual gamer space FPS
In this game, losses should have meaning. Losses should hurt.
|
Zlake
Caldari Naval Reserve
|
Posted - 2010.03.21 12:49:00 -
[57]
|
Anna Lifera
Gallente Imperial Legion of Amarr
|
Posted - 2010.03.21 14:06:00 -
[58]
not supported.
if the older chars were saved that much extra isk to get back into battle asap, they forget the combat sp advantage they have over newer players, who r much less effective and wouldn't be able to bounce back as often as the older chars because they don't make as much isk, let alone have enough to stack a ton of backup ships in their hangar. the older chars bouncing back that much more often would eventually kill off the newer players that much more often because of their higher sp and combat effectiveness. and it's already this way because keep in mind, u can still have your ship blown up--just don't stay around and get podded. simple as that.
|
yourdoingitwrong
|
Posted - 2010.03.21 16:38:00 -
[59]
not supported. Eve needs more risk not less.
|
adriaans
Amarr Ankaa. Nair Al-Zaurak
|
Posted - 2010.03.21 16:49:00 -
[60]
Originally by: Anna Lifera not supported.
if the older chars were saved that much extra isk to get back into battle asap, they forget the combat sp advantage they have over newer players, who r much less effective and wouldn't be able to bounce back as often as the older chars because they don't make as much isk, let alone have enough to stack a ton of backup ships in their hangar. the older chars bouncing back that much more often would eventually kill off the newer players that much more often because of their higher sp and combat effectiveness. and it's already this way because keep in mind, u can still have your ship blown up--just don't stay around and get podded. simple as that.
last i checked, if you're in a bubble.. you can't leave
You dont make more isk by having 100 mill SP than having 20 mill sp either, nor are you better in combat, you are ONLY more versatile -sig- Support the introduction of Blaze crystals for Amarr!
Originally by: UMEE if ure another fotm re-roller, then dont pvp. you'll fail.
QFT! |
|
|
|
|
Pages: 1 [2] 3 4 :: one page |
First page | Previous page | Next page | Last page |