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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2010.03.17 02:16:00 -
[1]
As discussed here: Clone Costs - Punishing veterans for continuing to play their main?
The linked thread has many points/counterpoints for/against the idea. Many voiced better than I can put in this post so I would suggest a review of it.
The oldest, most dedicated and supportive ranks of the player base seem to almost be punished just for being dedicated to their main characters.
The cost for clones seem to scale at a higher than linear (almost exponential rate) for a reason I've yet to find (simply arbitrarily?) One could say clone costs scale at a seemingly unfair and illogical rate.
I cannot see how this serves either CCP, the players or the health of the game overall (and this could be lack of imagination on my part).
It almost restricts older characters from flying some of the more fun ship classes (who takes a 40mil clone out it in a </=15mil ship??? Why should you face such a mandatory high penalty for pvp loss?). There are other insinuated/associated penalties discussed.
Loss in pvp is essential. I'm not suggesting otherwise. These losses present themselves effectively and in a balanced manner through ship costs, rigs, fitting, combat implants, etc... making the justification for current clone costs questionable.
(warning: needless sob rhetoric ahead) This is eve. It should be harsh. I really hope I'm not coming across as looking for a handout to oldest players. Without further clarification from ccp it seems the current clone cost scale seems to be more of a kick of sand to the face rather than a pat on the back or (at the least) a fair deal vs the lower clone tiers. One could view it as needless penalty for sticking around after years of continued support and continuing to play their main chars.
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Matting
NQX Innovations
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Posted - 2010.03.17 02:31:00 -
[2]
Supported.
My reasons are in the linked thread.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.03.17 06:05:00 -
[3]
Not all high SP characters are in 0.0, BS, Caps or Titans.
Many like to fly smaller ships worth a fraction of the value of their clones.
Why should older players be forced to fly bigger ships just to get value for money?
p.s. Fix the eve font before dedicating time to any other issue, it's just getting ridiculous. Next 6 month expansion could be the Typogrowrath - "The much anticipated critical expansion to the award winning MMO universe". It should come with a cool sexy trailer showing how people no longer go blind playing eve.
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Lyn Kishin
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Posted - 2010.03.17 07:32:00 -
[4]
Supported for more cheap fun in cheap ships.
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debbie harrio
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Posted - 2010.03.17 07:40:00 -
[5]
supported
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Typhado3
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Posted - 2010.03.17 11:57:00 -
[6]
supported.
sick of not having the same throw away ship options as noobs cause my clone holds me back. ------------------------------ God is an afk cloaker |
darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.17 12:24:00 -
[7]
a very new topic. yes really new.
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Pr1ncess Alia
Caldari Perkone
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Posted - 2010.03.17 13:45:00 -
[8]
Originally by: darius mclever a very new topic. yes really new.
I apologize. I searched the linked thread lists in the sticky and found nothing. The eve search link suggested in that sticky gave me a 404, so I went ahead and started a new proposal thread.
Thanks for linking the previous though, if mods want to lock this I understand.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.03.17 14:40:00 -
[9]
Not supported.... don't fly want you can't afford to lose.
And those who have that kind of high SP should already know how to make a damn living.
Get a backbone people.... your embarrassing the veterans.
Don't like paying for a new clone? Then stop dying so often!
Teaches you to be prudent... efficient.... a good steward... concepts in EVE that are quickly fading. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
James Tritanius
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Posted - 2010.03.17 14:51:00 -
[10]
I agree that the higher end clones seem to be too expensive. However, an asymptotic cost curve is dumb. I think we should just scale it linearly at the end and make it 5million sp per 1million isk clone cost instead of the 3:1 ratio as it is currently.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.03.17 15:12:00 -
[11]
Originally by: James Tritanius I agree that the higher end clones seem to be too expensive. However, an asymptotic cost curve is dumb. I think we should just scale it linearly at the end and make it 5million sp per 1million isk clone cost instead of the 3:1 ratio as it is currently.
This at least seems fair enough... but I DO NOT want to see cheap assed clones at very high SP's.
The last thing we need is an ISK explosion because you can die more frequently : O P ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Bagehi
Association of Commonwealth Enterprises Gentlemen's Club
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Posted - 2010.03.17 16:34:00 -
[12]
Originally by: Drake Draconis
Originally by: James Tritanius I agree that the higher end clones seem to be too expensive. However, an asymptotic cost curve is dumb. I think we should just scale it linearly at the end and make it 5million sp per 1million isk clone cost instead of the 3:1 ratio as it is currently.
This at least seems fair enough... but I DO NOT want to see cheap assed clones at very high SP's.
The last thing we need is an ISK explosion because you can die more frequently : O P
This. |
Ogogov
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Posted - 2010.03.17 16:42:00 -
[13]
NOT supported -
It's tough enough to come in as a new player as it is, given you have to either roll specialized alts or spend over a year to train into anything remotely competent. Given the way the training system works, you're almost better buying a 1yr sub in advance, training up a character and THEN learn how to play the game rather than ****ing around for months, unable to compete because you simply can't fly anything worthwhile when everyone around you is zipping about in HACs and capitals.
The high clone costs are one of the few balancing mechanisms to make using high SP characters less attractive and allowing new players and low SP chars to be even remotely competitive.
- unless, of course, your goal is to stop new people playing the game and have it die the slow death of dwindling playerbase?
There's a fine balance between making a game challenging and making it so frustrating nobody will bother playing it.
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debbie harrio
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Posted - 2010.03.17 17:19:00 -
[14]
Edited by: debbie harrio on 17/03/2010 17:19:23
Originally by: Ogogov NOT supported -
It's tough enough to come in as a new player as it is, given you have to either roll specialized alts or spend over a year to train into anything remotely competent. Given the way the training system works, you're almost better buying a 1yr sub in advance, training up a character and THEN learn how to play the game rather than ****ing around for months, unable to compete because you simply can't fly anything worthwhile when everyone around you is zipping about in HACs and capitals.
The high clone costs are one of the few balancing mechanisms to make using high SP characters less attractive and allowing new players and low SP chars to be even remotely competitive.
- unless, of course, your goal is to stop new people playing the game and have it die the slow death of dwindling playerbase?
There's a fine balance between making a game challenging and making it so frustrating nobody will bother playing it.
you what?
how on earth does reducing the cost of high skill point characters' clones make new players quit?
Originally by: Drake Draconis Not supported.... don't fly want you can't afford to lose.
And those who have that kind of high SP should already know how to make a damn living.
Get a backbone people.... your embarrassing the veterans.
Don't like paying for a new clone? Then stop dying so often!
Teaches you to be prudent... efficient.... a good steward... concepts in EVE that are quickly fading.
Your a fine one to bleat, the industrialist that doesn't PVP, we aren't talking about carebears who never get into harms way but people who enjoy a bit of pew pew and you don't qualify, your input is void, we could all hole up in a factory slot or whatever and run when a new red enters system, or is that what you are suggesting?
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darius mclever
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Posted - 2010.03.17 17:28:00 -
[15]
ok so you play for years and havent figured out some of the x ways to (semi)passively make money in eve?
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Destination SkillQueue
Are We There Yet
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Posted - 2010.03.17 17:54:00 -
[16]
The current clone cost system seems unjustified from a pure gameplay perspective. I've read a few of these threads and haven't heard one good reason for them, so unless CCP has a reason for it that hasn't been mentioned yet, the costs on high SP count should be made more reasonable.
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.03.17 17:58:00 -
[17]
Originally by: debbie harrio
Your a fine one to bleat, the industrialist that doesn't PVP, we aren't talking about carebears who never get into harms way but people who enjoy a bit of pew pew and you don't qualify, your input is void, we could all hole up in a factory slot or whatever and run when a new red enters system, or is that what you are suggesting?
So what your saying is... you don't have time to make ISK And would rather prefer to be able to freely blow stuff up and die many times and not worry about affording to pay for your clone.
Yeah... makes sense... must suck to be a horrid pilot in EVE.
Guess what... nothing in game... even in life... is free... let alone cheap.
Adapt or die.... less.
Keep it coming... I'll need an another container for your tears.
And before you blow off your smartass mouth again... we are subject to the same penalties and costs you are... we can die just as often as you can... so please... grow up and stop using pathetic excuses.
You have no excuse... at that age and at that rate you should be able to make enough ISK to pay for your measly clone... pa the tic. ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Dav Varan
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Posted - 2010.03.17 18:01:00 -
[18]
If you cant afford a high sp clone then dont buy one.
You will lose some skill points when podded next enabling you "eventually" to use a lower skilled cheaper clone.
You may have to retrain some stuff that you lose and need.
If you want the advantage of a high sp char then expect it too cost you , like any other expensive ship/mod in eve.
Nothing is broken here.
O and also stop sucking so much and stop dying it really helps with clone costs.
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Alex V0X2
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Posted - 2010.03.17 18:45:00 -
[19]
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BobMoo22
Endless Destruction Legiunea ROmana
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Posted - 2010.03.17 20:14:00 -
[20]
Edited by: BobMoo22 on 17/03/2010 20:14:23 Supported 100%
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Ariane VoxDei
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Posted - 2010.03.17 20:53:00 -
[21]
Not supported in its current form.
I support the general idea that the price scaling is wrong and making higher SP chars more risk averse.
Problem with original post: It lists what you can concede is a problem, but where one would expect at least a proposed solution/change, it is not even sketched out what should happen.
As such you are abusing the "[Proposal]" tag in the subject line and it seem appropriate to file it as unconstructive complaint.
Please draft a proper proposal, there is likely plenty of support out there if you bother to do it right.
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Maxsim Goratiev
Imperial Tau Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.03.17 21:02:00 -
[22]
Quote: You have no excuse... at that age and at that rate you should be able to make enough ISK to pay for your measly clone... pa the tic.
it's not a question whether you can make enough money, it is a question WHY should you be forced to make enough money. And there is not reason, therefore, i support this proposal.
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Sig Sour
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Posted - 2010.03.17 23:26:00 -
[23]
Not supported.
If you have 40 mil SP and you are still trying to figure out how to avoid losing your pod, you need to be punished.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.03.17 23:35:00 -
[24]
Originally by: Drake Draconis Not supported.... don't fly want you can't afford to lose.
Don't fly a pod if you're high SP and don't grind like a WoW player?
Interesting position, if you're a cheap player who's been playing for a long time then according to Drake you should never undock.
This is about balacing it so the pilot has the choice of flying small ships if they so desire.
As for pilot "skill" and losing pods......... Heard of lag?
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Feone
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Posted - 2010.03.17 23:40:00 -
[25]
Cripes, stop training skills that don't help you make isk, learn to make more isk and stop being a whiner.
OR pause your uber costly main and train one of your alts to fly small ships and die when you want to be in a small ship.
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Dr BattleSmith
PAX Interstellar Services
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Posted - 2010.03.17 23:45:00 -
[26]
Originally by: Feone Cripes, stop training skills that don't help you make isk, learn to make more isk and stop being a whiner.
OR pause your uber costly main and train one of your alts to fly small ships and die when you want to be in a small ship.
So once again only low SP characters are allowed to fly small ships with any degree of efficiency?
What is the reasoning behind high SP characters being pushed away from small ships?
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Drake Draconis
Minmatar Shadow Cadre Looney Toons.
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Posted - 2010.03.17 23:54:00 -
[27]
Edited by: Drake Draconis on 17/03/2010 23:57:39 Edited by: Drake Draconis on 17/03/2010 23:55:13
Originally by: Dr BattleSmith
Originally by: Drake Draconis Not supported.... don't fly want you can't afford to lose.
Don't fly a pod if you're high SP and don't grind like a WoW player?
Interesting position, if you're a cheap player who's been playing for a long time then according to Drake you should never undock.
This is about balacing it so the pilot has the choice of flying small ships if they so desire.
As for pilot "skill" and losing pods......... Heard of lag?
Dr. Whinesmith - Eever hear of flying smart? Prudence? Being a good steward?
running low on cash?
Do what everyone else does moron!
1: Rat 2: Rat 3: Rat 4: ???? 5: Profit! 6: New Clone! 7: Die! (oops!) 8: Rinse and repeat.
derp derp... doesn't take a genius to figure that out...and you don't have to chew on rock to boot! Gee golly whiz!
PS: You know... it's smart to maintain a budget... I always keep a stash for those "oh ####" moments... like renewing clones? Yeah? Engage Brain before undocking! ========================= CEO of Shadow Cadre http://www.shadowcadre.com ========================= |
Mlach
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Posted - 2010.03.17 23:56:00 -
[28]
ye
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chatgris
Quantum Cats Syndicate
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Posted - 2010.03.17 23:59:00 -
[29]
Edited by: chatgris on 18/03/2010 00:01:11 While my base clone cost is still cheap, I can see this is a problem (opposed to people saying "oh no the vets have so much already"). A vet shouldn't be locked out of flying many classes of ships, or be forced into more carebearing for the same loss.
OTOH, maybe this is CCP's way of saying that more experienced players should leave 0.0 for lowsec, where the real pvp happens ;)
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Ephemeron
Retribution Corp. Initiative Associates
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Posted - 2010.03.18 00:40:00 -
[30]
Not supported
High skill characters got tons of advantages over less skilled characters Reducing risk in pvp is the wrong way to go This game is great precisely because losses mean something Those who don't want to pay high clone cost don't have to buy clones, if they want to fly cheap ships, they don't need more than 20 mil sp anyway.
CCP should not keep lowering the bar just so more stupid people can pass
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